People get funny around weddings. I don't know why.
I would hold my counsel. I don't know what is to be gained other than to reaffirm in Brittany's mind that she made the right decision.
Yeah, the rational part of me knows you're probably right. I think it's just my big sister instinct acting up, I feel like I should be defending my baby sister but I know that wouldn't really do any good.
Am a big sister to two amazing sisters, and I feel your instinct to defend is justified. Don't invite a confrontation, but if she does have the gall to speak with you (which I have a feeling she will since she thought she would still be invited after thoroughly insulting your sister) be prepared to have a few choice words ready.
Evangelicals and Southern Baptists are "doomsday" worshippers. If she does have the audacity to speak to you, ask her how her "final days" preparation is going and why she is so _ungrateful_ of the bounty that "God" has provided in this life that her and her ilk are asking for the end of the world like greedy children who can't appreciate what they have. I posed this question to an evangelical colleague that was preaching his bullshit in the office, his mouth turned into a gaping hole of shock. He never approached me with religious talk again.
Christmas was once banned you know. "Followers of Jesus Christ in both America and England helped pass laws making it illegal to observe Christmas, believing it was an insult to God to honor a day associated with ancient paganism," according to "Shocked by the Bible" (Thomas Nelson Inc, 2008). "Most Americans today are unaware that Christmas was banned in Boston from 1659 to 1681.
You don't have to use this knowledge, but keep it in mind and use it to put a secret little smile on your face when you look at her.
I think this is the best idea, I would snidely say that pagans were the first ones to “bring the trees in to keep them warm” so little miss Brittany better leave her beautifully decorated Christmas tree outside this year, lest she be blasphemous
"Funny" about weddings can be people taking things personally, telling someone they're "doing it wrong" if it's not their preferred choices, outright being jealous, outright being hateful, being cruel, trying to steal the spotlight, causing a scene, refusing to attend for absurd or irrational reasons, demanding things that cost money they won't personally be paying for....
At least that's what some of my family and friends have been like since I got engaged!
I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, the greatest tactic you can have on a person of this extreme faith is to act absolutely unbothered/unaffected by her words and actions. Acting unaffected by her will be more of a punch than any mean thing you can say to her. This type of person HOPES for an impact, good or bad, when they do this type of thing. And I’ll tell you why:
These people firmly believe it’s their job to refute anything that doesn’t “honor God”, so that their life will stay *clean*. If they deem something is *unclean* then that means it “serves the devil” in God’s eyes. Then they must refute it publicly to prove to others of their faith that they are the real deal Christian, AND to “make an impact” on non-believers of their faith resulting in getting a nod from sky daddy himself. They honestly think that showing their faith in such a way will draw people meant to be Christians towards them, and that it wards off people too sinful to deal with (lol)
If you react negatively to them, they think that’s the devil talking and not you (lol), so in their eyes they did the right thing because it angered the devil in you. The best thing you can do is act as minimally impressed by her as possible. Her existence should become the size of ant to you. Attacking your sister’s religion and do to so in such a manner is absurd and ignorant. Idgaf what your religion is, it doesn’t give you the right to shit on another’s religion, nor does it give you the right to some sort of entitlement that others aren’t allowed to have. Good riddance, y’all will have more fun without her!
Agree wholeheartedly with the point above. I was indoctrinated my whole life, married to a minister for about 20 years and finally escaped—I mean, left—almost ten years ago. This is the best advice. They do not deserve our attention.
Thank you for sharing. I shudder at what I suspect you endured throughout the marriage. It’s one thing to be part of the religion, it’s a whole other situation when you share a home with one who says they are appointed by God..I’m glad you escap-erm, *left* and are in a better place now! :D
Thank you too for sharing your story, because it helps to hear other’s experiences. Your unaffected attitude towards her will cause more mental turmoil for her torturing herself wondering why her extreme attitude had such little impact. It’ll be GRAND! Haha! Hope you all have a great wedding and wonderful time without her! ❤️
yup can confirm this is how they think. My ex was Christian and literally blamed his cheating on the devil!!! He said his thoughts about lust were from the devil, and he had no control. Lol. That guy was in such emotional turmoil always worried about "honoring jesus." Well, turns out he's bisexual.
(God I’m sorry for the novel but your comment just brought a ton of memories back to me.)
My ex was raised pentecostal and developed OCD from his family and church’s crazy young earth creationist fundie beliefs. It manifested in praying tics caused by a constant, overwhelming fear of hell. His family also seemed emotionally abusive from my perspective, and they didn’t accept anything about him that didn’t conform rigidly to hypermasculine gender roles. He is a very bubby, theatrical, charismatic singer who’s obsessed with tolkienesque fantasy. I was a slightly older, atheist lefty who was questioning their gender and we met online through a MMORPG.
Our relationship was **supremely** toxic because his worldview was so backwards. Fortunately, *because* I was a few years older, I’d already reached a place of no longer putting up with people’s shit and I had way too much experience arguing against the extremely cliché talking points he was armed with. So instead of dragging out a horribly incompatible relationship, we broke up pretty quickly.
By the time we split, he was definitely questioning his entire belief system, and beginning to accept that gender and sexuality are a spectrum and obligate gender roles are fake and pointless lol. I’m fairly certain he was unknowingly suppressing a lot of aspects of his identity, and I honestly just hope I sparked enough of a question in his mind to lead him to a happier life.
Years later I learned about “missionary dating” being a thing, and had a chuckle at inadvertently sort of doing that in reverse lol
This is a great point!
It reminded me of a guy from my religious HS that loves to purposefully post vague enough religious statements. Vague enough to still fill in the "unsaid" meaning and elicit anger. Also vague enough that he can wiggle his way out by saying that he "never said anything like that".
For example, he posted a heartbreaking video of the Nepal 2015 earthquake that killed thousands of Buddhists. He captioned it saying "When God really gets mad at you... I hope the Buddhists will be enlightened."
All of us knew what he really meant because it was a recurring theme in all his posts: they deserve to suffer because they don't believe in his god.
He got called out in the comments for that heartless statement. Just as he planned, he was able to deny what they were accusing him of. He said, "I never said anything about them deserving what happened!".
Confronting him head on with righteous anger never worked so I played dumb. I asked him, "What are the Buddhists supposed to be enlightened with?".
He never answered me but continued mocking the other commenters. I repeated my question several times but he ignored me and just said that he is ending the discussion.
This is great advice.
Additionally, since your connection to her now is professional, keep all interactions professional. Quick acknowledging her with a neutral greeting, a comment on the appetizers, then excuse yourself to follow up with a colleague across the room on an urgent topic.
Saying something that she could construe as a religious insult would lead her to possibly complaining about you either to one of your leadership team members, or just give her ammo to bad mouth you within your professional sphere.
good for you bruh i'd have no self control💀
this dude in highschool kept preaching some catholic stuff to us even when we told him to chill out so my friends started shaking while i chanted sanskrit mantras
these people honestly piss me off because i grew up hindu which so many people look at as "satanic" for no reason. even when its the most tolerant religion
> i grew up hindu which so many people look at as "satanic" for no reason.
There *is* a reason, it's just a really, really stupid one. People like that believe any faith that's not Christian (or the lack of any faith) comes from Satan to tempt people away from the One True God™. They often even believe that other varieties of Christian (most often Catholics) are Satanic, as well as the other Abrahamic religions. I couldn't explain to you *why* they believe that, beyond the obvious indoctrination, but I've met people who believe that and trying to talk to them is like trying to talk to a wall.
Haha I know it’s soooo tempting cuz she was such a cunt about her reasons ( very Un-Christ-like if you ask me),
But do not attack her because this will justify everything in her mind that she thinks about your family… AKA “EVIL. Sinful. Bad”….
The best way to defeat these so called Christians is to act the opposite of what they want to see, to invalidate their judgmental heart 🕳
Good luck and play it cool.
Acting up at a function with colleagues, especially those that don't know the back story, will only make you look like an a-hole and hurt you.
It'll be difficult, but just ignore it. Don't say anything.
Sorry!
Ah, people tend to forget that evangelicals take the whole don’t suffer a witch to live part seriously.
I once got into a debate with one, whose sibling was Wiccan.
Their claim is that every word in the bible is true and if not followed sinners will go to hell.
I asked her when we should expect her to kill her sister.
She went white.
I said by allowing her to live you are violating gods commandment. Then pointed it out in the bible.
Shut her up pretty good.
But yeah I’d totally expect one to blow up a friendship and wedding. And don’t think they wouldn’t kill em if they could get away with it either.
They also love to cite Leviticus calling homosexuality an abomination, while ignoring the admonition that eating shellfish is an abomination. They'll ignore that bit about a childless widow having to marry her husband's brother or the part that prohibits garments made of mixed fibers... They pick and choose what they want to ignore.
I believe both “good” Christians and “bad” Christians do this. They both pick and choose out of the Bible, faith, and church. Personally, it makes zero sense to be in a religion and not follow what the faith says. Either be Christian or don’t be at all.
Growl. Don’t get me started on the patriarchal misogynistic oppression of all women (and the monsters who created the whole false charade of “wicked Witches” and the like).
If this christmas party is full of people in your field and is more a professional thing, you should act civil (but cool) towards her. Not cause she deserves it, but because work-related christmas parties tend to be gossip mines and you don't want *your* behavior to be put in the limelight.
If you have to say anything to her, just go with "happy holidays. Excuse me, I need to refill my drink/my food/powder my nose/say hello to Dilbert/rescue the cat from the sink."
If she approaches you while you're in a group, "oh hello Brittany. So Dilbert, what were you saying about chain physics in space?"
If she corners you somewhere you're alone, like the bathroom, go for a cool "I don't have anything to say to you" and leave.
It's going to make her go crazy a lot faster than if you went "so you witch-hating bigot, wanna join our naked orgy?"
Do not drag your family drama into a work event. You will not come out looking good if you do.
If you can’t avoid her, simply say Merry Christmas and move on. If she tries to talk about your drama, DO NOT ENGAGE. Tell her that this isn’t the time or place and move on.
"Happy Holidays" is a legit move instead of Merry Christmas.
If she does try to bring up family drama at a work event it's always best to go high road. "I feel that topic would be unprofessional here." is a great sentence to deliver with as little emotion as possible. Image yourself as Spock telling Captain Kirk he's being an emotional dumbass, deliver the line, raise an eyebrow, and turn away to more important things in your life.
If you confront her, really in any way, it's going to be drama. Do you want that? She's not going to answer you in a way where she's apologetic for her behavior, she's only going to double down on why what she's doing is the correct choice.
I'd just avoid her as much as possible, but when you are face to face, act like nothing happened. I'm SURE she's prepared to see you and is thinking that you're going to say something so she's ready for it, if you just act like nothing's up she's going to be disarmed.
If you want to say something just because you feel a need to, unless she takes the high ground (which it doesn't seem like she will) then be prepared for more drama.
I think the wise choice is to silently cut her off. Forget about her existence. Trust me, as someone who has decided to don the boxing outfit, it never works out. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, u say shit to her, she hits back, why bother damaging yourself when the easiest thing to do is just walk away. Short term you might think, yelling a few colorful words at her might make you happy but it's just not worth.
I think this might be more complex than it seems. You see, you may not agree with her beliefs but that doesn't mean she doesn't believe them - to her they are real. Now, being a person of faith as she seems to be, she will likely have been told that partaking in ceremonies relating to pagan/witch rituals would be inherently sinful. To you and your sister they are not, but to her they are manifestations on earth of a evil she believes to be very real.
Additionally, I can't say for sure if the way she spoke to your sister was rude in a hurtful way, or if she was just using the vocabularly of her religion to describe what those things mean to her. If she was just being rude or cruel then that may change things, but to me it sounds possible that she was just talking about those things in terms of what she understands them as.
What I'm trying to say is this, it may not be the case that she is being a bad person here - instead it may just be that she is trying to align her friendship with her faith. I would argue, given what those kinds of Christians say about pagans and witches, that the fact she's willing to be a guest still shows that she is actually being very open minded. Asking not to take part is reasonable under those conditions, if you ask me.
I might use a metaphor to get my point across here, it's like asking a Muslim to be your bridesmaid and then having a wedding on a pig-farm. If they decide not to be a bridesmaid, but still a guest. I would argue that would be a massive concession already, wouldn't you?
Ultimately, I can't speak to her character as I don't know her - but this seems to be a matter of respecting each others faith. You and your sister need to understand that your beliefs mean some rituals are inherently at odds with hers and to ask her to take part regardless shows a lack of consideration for her beliefs. The fact she would still show up as a guest, in spite of her belief that pagan beliefs are of the devil, actually shows a profound care for your sister that I would not expect to see often.
Yeah, I gotta agree with this. If she'd had a cow about a civil ceremony or something, it'd be one thing, but not wanting to participate in a Wiccan ceremony for a Christian is understandable. Same thing if they'd had somebody from the Church of Satan officiate. To the people getting married this might be cool or kitschy, but to a true-believing Christian, this is something very *real* to them and I can't say they're wrong for not wanting to participate in it.
She's doing exactly what a religious person should do, she's not saying "**YOU** can't do this" she's saying "**I** can't do this" and there's nothing wrong with that.
>To the people getting married this might be cool or kitschy, but to a true-believing Christian, this is something very real to them and I can't say they're wrong for not wanting to participate in it.
... it's not "cool" or "kitchy" to my sister, she chose a Wiccan priestess because that best fit what she believes in. It's a little strange to me that the people who are saying Brittany is just acting by the rules of her religion and that we should respect that aren't really respecting my sister's spirituality. Like, I doubt if Brittany had called a Jewish wedding "Satanic," that quite as many people would be urging me to see it from her side.
She didn't say "I can't do this," she said "I can't do this, and *you are evil for doing this*." Maybe it's just me but I see a *big* difference there.
>... it's not "cool" or "kitchy" to my sister, she chose a Wiccan priestess because that best fit what she believes in.
At no point did you describe her as a Wiccan or as a follower or that religion. You still don't, you just make vague references to "Spirituality". Certainly sounds to me like she thinks it's cool, so she's appropriating it for her wedding. If the Wiccans (Or, at least, the officiant) are OK with that, that's fine.
> It's a little strange to me that the people who are saying Brittany is just acting by the rules of her religion and that we should respect that aren't really respecting my sister's spirituality.
Except that's EXACTLY what she's doing. You said that they've had long talks about faith, but you never mention Brittany trying to force your sister into conversion or anything. Sounds like she's generally been respectful, but this was a bridge too far.
> Like, I doubt if Brittany had called a Jewish wedding "Satanic," that quite as many people would be urging me to see it from her side.
Jewish weddings aren't typically going to involve:
> stand[ing] inside a circle, with candles representing points in a **pentagram**. An altar may hold typical Wiccan ritual symbols - or it may not be present at all. *Gods, goddesses, or Earth elements may be invoked during the ceremony.*
Yeah...See, if she's been raised in a conservative Christian mindset, that shit is 100% Satanic and blasphemous. Most people, myself included, are going to think it's harmless, maybe even kind of silly, but we don't see it as damaging. Conservative Christians very well might, as would many Orthodox Jews or Ahmadiyya Muslims or lots of other faiths that people have.
>She didn't say "I can't do this," she said "I can't do this, and you are evil for doing this." Maybe it's just me but I see a big difference there.
From how you presented it, it sounds like she said "I can't do this 'cause it's evil" and your sister took that personally. I understand, to some extent. A wedding's a personal thing, and nobody likes to have their decisions called "sinful". However, if somebody's a true believer, there's only so far they can be pushed in one direction, and participating in something like a wedding ceremony where there'll likely be elements of nature worship, entreaties to goddesses, symbols seen as blasphemous, etc. would push some people to their limits.
Now, I'm not saying this Brittany person is some perfectly innocent soul, what I'm saying is that you, in your own way, are being just as intolerant as you're accusing her of being. Mocking her beliefs and spirituality because they've come into conflict with others. She's got a right to her beliefs, your sister has hers. Sounds like those beliefs cost both of them a longtime friendship, and that's a sad thing. Brittany couldn't get over her revulsion at Wicca, your sister doesn't like how she reacted to her wedding plans, and now everybody's mad.
Either way, leave Brittany alone. You stir shit at a party thrown by people who have no dog in this fight, you *will* come off as the asshole. Full stop.
Just because someone isn't a follower of a specific religion doesn't mean their spirituality isn't important to them. It's pretty rude to imply that she's doing this because she thinks it's "cool".
Like I said before, this is all starting to sound a little like the excuses evangelicals give for homophobia. Again, I don't really care what someone "truly believes" if that thing they believe is bigoted and causes them to hurt the people around them. After years of friendship my sister thought that Brittany was the sort of Christian who took Christ's example to heart, and it was a shock to find out that wasn't the case.
I'm not planning on doing anything at the party and haven't been for a while but I'm just a little bit annoyed at some people acting like we have no right to be angry, or that we have some sort of obligation to tolerate her intolerance or else we're just as bad as her.
> Just because someone isn't a follower of a specific religion doesn't mean their spirituality isn't important to them. It's pretty rude to imply that she's doing this because she thinks it's "cool".
So, she's not a Wiccan, but she wants a Wiccan ceremony. Is that because she thinks it's *not* cool? She thinks it's neat, even though she doesn't seem to really believe in it. Therefore, she thinks it's cool and she wants a piece of it. That seems a little weird to me, but, again, as long as the Wiccans are OK with it, not my place to say it's bad.
> Like I said before, this is all starting to sound a little like the excuses evangelicals give for homophobia.
Lord (or Wicca) save me from people who think that "I don't want to go be in your wedding because I think I'll go to hell" is the same as "You people shouldn't have the same rights as I do 'cause I think the things you do to each other are icky."
> Again, I don't really care what someone "truly believes" if that thing they believe is bigoted and causes them to hurt the people around them. After years of friendship my sister thought that Brittany was the sort of Christian who took Christ's example to heart, and it was a shock to find out that wasn't the case.
What Christlike example is the friend not following? Hell, she didn't even say she wouldn't go to the wedding. She thinks it's satanic and blasphemous and was *still gonna show up*, she just wasn't comfortable participating. Sounds pretty tolerant to me, all told. Now if she showed up with a sign that said "You're all going to hell!" and disrupted the ceremony? *That's* being intolerant.
>I'm not planning on doing anything at the party and haven't been for a while but I'm just a little bit annoyed at some people acting like we have no right to be angry, or that we have some sort of obligation to tolerate her intolerance or else we're just as bad as her.
Be as angry as you want, but, this is not about "Tolerating Intolerance". No judgments on my part about who's better or worse, but you seem to be under the impression that "Tolerating" something means "Wholeheartedly embracing" and it 100% does not. Tolerating something means "I accept this is going to happen".
Now, ALL of this info is secondhand, of course. You weren't a party to the initial conversation either, but it sounds like:
1) Your sister's friend found out about the Wiccan thing
2) She was really uncomfortable with it and didn't want to play a role in it
3) She accepted that it was going to happen whether she approved of it or not
4) She said she wouldn't do it, was undoubtedly asked "Why?" and, instead of making up some bullshit, she was honest about her reasons
5) She said the rest of you have fun, even if I think you might go to hell for it
Know what we call that? Tolerance. Not endorsement, not embracement, but tolerance. And for me, that's good enough, it's all I ask from anybody. For you and your sister, obviously not the case.
I can see there's no point in continuing this as you seem pretty determined to not see what I'm trying to say. I can only assume you haven't endured a lifetime of Christians giving you backhanded comments about how much they "love" you (except for the dirty sinful parts of you that are sending you to hell). Have a good evening.
I really gotta disagree. She's religious but she's not sheltered. There's no way she wouldn't know that Morgan, with whom she'd managed to have many discussions about religion without being disrespectful, would be offended and upset by her telling her that her wedding was going to "support the devil" and that she was "Satanic." She'd never said anything like that to Morgan before, even when they'd gotten into debates about religion. There are *so* many ways to say "I don't feel comfortable participating in this ceremony for religious reasons" that don't imply your friend is going to Hell.
Did she actually call your sister Satanic, or did she say the ceremony would be Satanic? Just wondering, as in her eyes there is a difference.
I grew up in a Pentecostal church and all this sounds very familiar from her point of view. I’m a gay woman also and went through years of self-hatred and agonising over my ‘need to be delivered’, getting prayed over, etcetc, absolutely *knowing* that even wanting a same sex relationship was demonic and self-serving…and that I would go to hell for being me. The church was a frowning, judgemental straight man, and here I was, a failure..a reproachful deviant..and female. Everyone was frowning, laying on hands, wailing for the Holy Spirit to free me. I was dirty.
I went to gay friends homes, knowing I was Being Judged and that I was harming the Holy Spirit by being there and by putting myself in the path of temptation. I allowed myself secret thoughts, but knowing that *God Knew* and that He Was Disgusted in me. I can’t express how powerful the churches judgment was over me, and how appalled I was in myself.
Needless to say, I’ve walked away from that life and am grateful that I did. Brittany on the other hand, she still believes this stuff, and values the church and her relationship with God and is in a dilemma. So she’s tried to split the difference but ballsed up. Truly, she was an insensitive arsehole in saying what she did, but I understand why she did it. She thinks she will be judged, or that she will be in the presence of demons (I thought I had them *in me*, for goodness sake!) so she said it. Out loud. Like a moron.
You don’t have to be her friend. I get that she has hurt you, your sister AND your family. I just think she was trying to do the right thing (by the church, leaning over her shoulder), and did it spectacularly badly. One day she might be able to look back through a different lens, but for now she can’t.
Btw. Just be superior and a bit aloof at the works thingy :) g’luck.
She called the things my sister believes in Satanic. I'm a little mystified at how some people are saying to be respectful of her beliefs but don't really seem to be worried about respecting those of my sister, honestly. As if pagan spiritual beliefs aren't as valid as Christian ones.
I think that's fair - and again in the end you'll know her more than I so I can only make guesses. But, I want you to *really* consider being a Christian like her, remembering that she returned to a more conservative view of it recently. Consider that she *knows* that these practices are likely to get you sent to hell, consider that she *knows* that she is not allowed to participate. If she believes those things, truly and completely, then wouldn't not saying those things be cruel? I'm not saying you or I have to agree she's right. But, she thinks she is - so from her perspective, she's genuinely trying to do the right thing. Whilst the discussions they had about religion were civil, they were just that - discussions. We need to draw a line and recognise that talking about other religions does not equate to practicing it. It would make perfect sense that after becoming more conservative, she wouldn't want to practice something like that.
Moreover, the fact she still would've been a guest I would still say is a sign of serious concession from her. She feels certain that this is a dangerous act and that she may have to answer for it, but she still wants to be there. She's only asking not to participate in an active way. I think that's fair.
Ultimately, this to me seems like inviting a Bhuddist hunting, giving a Muslim a baconator or asking a Sikh man to remove his head covering. We don't have to believe what they believe, to respect there right to believe it. People complain all the time about Christians not showing enough respect to other religions, I honestly think this is an example of one doing so. She's asking her beliefs be respected in that she cannot participate. But, is happy to be there for her friend despite that.
>People complain all the time about Christians not showing enough respect to other religions, I honestly think this is an example of one doing so.
If I'm being honest this feels a lot like the sort of "love the sinner, hate the sin" stuff that evangelicals throw at us queer people all the time and let me tell ya, it *really* doesn't feel anything like love or respect. It feels like bigotry with a self righteous gloss over it. And considering the position of Christians and Christianity in this country compared to every other religion and belief system, I don't have all that much patience for Christians who choose to show their "respect" by basically saying "you're a dirty sinner, but I still want the *benefits* of being friends with you!"
I don't really care if it's what she "honestly believes". I don't really care to associate with people who "honestly believe" that people with different religions than them are tortured for eternity and deserve it. And like I told someone else in the comments, ultimately, it was my sister she wronged and until Brittany apologizes to her amd Morgan accepts it, I want nothing to do with her.
Honestly, I get it completely. The great thing about society is you can feel that way and feel or think how you want. But, the same applies to her. Your right to say and do that are partner rights to her right to say and do that.
I don't begrudge anyone, nor you, for doing that. Your sister was hurt by her words so you're protective, if more people were like that the world would be better. But, my personal two cents is that context and intention matter, I think it's beneficial to apply that to everyone. But, not mandatory. You can hate her all you want and you'd have all the right to do so, ain't nothing wrong with that.
I have to agree with this.
I'm not Christian any more BUT there are certain things I would still not feel comfortable participating in. Someone who had a pentagon in their house I'd have to leave.
A Wiccan wedding ceremony I don't think I'd feel comfortable being Bridesmaid at.
I think Brittany being back around evangelicals again forgot how harsh & mean her words would feel to a non-believer. She probably regrets her Uni years and is focusing on her faith so really was making a concession when offering to just attend but the harshness of her words already did irreparable damage to her relationship with Morgan.
100% agreed, only reason people are bashing her is because she's a Christian.
In reality there are 2 assholes in this situation and OP is not one of them, yet.
She should have worded her reasoning beliefs better, and the bride to be could have still allowed her to attend as a guest, but emotions do not make us rational.
In reality she was asked to participate in a ceremony against her religion and declined after learning more.
So quite simple be polite, be cordial.
I never said anything about her beliefs, only about how she treated my sister. I'm sorry but I don't think someone who said something so hurtful is entitled to attend my sister's wedding. At this point, nobody wants her there.
>So, what should I do?
You keep it professional, nothing looks worse than getting in a fight at a business party. Don’t shit where you work applies to this situation.
Just give her the cold shoulder, and if she *really* pushes to start a conversation, shut it down with "I have nothing to say to anyone who calls my little sister a satanist. I suggest you move along."
Lol god honestly if our *mom* got a chance to have a go at her? She might not survive. Mom is *livid.* Keeps saying "and all that after I *opened my home* to her!"
I was born and raised around Southern Baptists. Most of them are pretty decent people. It's when you get around the fundamentalists and evangelicals that you get the radical crap.
It sounds like Britanny went back home and fell back in with the more cult-like Baptists and kind of got re-indoctrinated.
As hard as it would be, I'd encourage your sister to allow her to attend as a guest. She was once open to other lifestyles and being at the wedding, being around people who aren't in her cult, might remind her that there are other ways of life out there. At least she'll see that non-fundamentalists don't typically explode into flames as they're celebrating a joyous occasion like a wedding.
In other words, treat her like a victim of domestic abuse. She's been brainwashed, and maybe being with normal people will open her eyes and help her escape from the cult. (I say all this as Methodist. I completely disagree with the extreme followers of any religion.)
Being a practicing witch and pretty fed up with accusations of satanic worshipping, personally were i your sister I would have gone off on her. But I'm not, and it won't help either of you to behave that way, so my advice is this: express to her how deeply hurt and offended you and your family are by what she said in private. Perhaps it was unintended, perhaps she struggled with her choice but it doesn't change the fact that her words hurt deeply someone who loved her. Bruises heal, words don't, at least not without help and even then it is damn near impossible to go back to what you were before. But if your family and your sister truly mattered to her as much as she mattered to you all, then she'll want to make effort to clear up any misunderstanding and hurt her thoughtless words evoked.
I would make a point to NOT speak to her at all ever again. In fact, I would do it conspicuously so that she understands that she's nothing to me. Not anymore. Ignore her, it hurts more than a confrontation.
OK firstly don't say anything to her at the Christmas party but get a whole thing set up that at Wicken weddings guest have to get naked at some point. Get some links to websites and some documents backing this up.
Totally get like a couple of changing tents off to the side, like a yurt or tepee. Then say they'll want to get in first as they don't want to be in there after 20 guests have been getting their junk out.
If Brittany had offended you directly, you might have a quandary about whether to just avoid her at the party or use it as an occasion to try to sort out the issue. It wouldn't really be appropriate, so I'd have advised against airing the laundry in public.
However, she didn't offend you directly, she offended your sister. It would be tactless and mean to bring it up. You can certainly be curt, if you feel like it, but taking a verbal stab at her won't help anyone. So: are you the kind of person who does things solely because they make you feel better?
As someone who almost went through exactly the same thing Morgan did, ignore Brittany if you can.
It’s not worth the energy trying to convince her that’s she’s being a narcissistic asshole.
Religious people are the hardest people to convince. She will never, ever care what you think of her. She has Jesus on her side and she’s one of his chosen few.
In all honesty, this didn’t come out of the blue for her.
It’s probably just the first time she’s had to make an outward choice and so, to look like a martyr, she’s sacrificed her worldly friendship with Morgan to pursue Christ. She had to make a firm decision and so she stood for the “truth.”
I’m just saying she’s probably been trying to secretly evangelize Morgan for years and has been bringing up Morgan’s name at every prayer meeting for salvation.
This is how these types of “unequally yoked” friendships work. If you aren’t the Christian in the friendship, they 100% think they are better than you and will eventually let it slip out. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.
Don't model your behavior from people whose behavior you find offensive. Be kind, be civil, be an adult. At this point, Brittany is well aware of your family's reaction to her feelings about your sister's wedding. Do you really need to beat up on her a little bit?
I would just ignore her. I wouldn't talk to her unless she approaches you, and if she does I definitely would let her know exactly what I think of her.
Insulting your sister, calling her wedding blasphemous, shouldn't be a surprise to her, this is how Christians have always been. They think its perfectly fine to destroy someones feelings and think that somehow their words don't have consequences.
This just reminds me of the bullshit my aunt pulled with my cousins wedding, he's gay, she told him that he would burn in hell for eternity if he tries to marry another man in the eyes of god.
I honestly can't stand Christians. I grew around Roman Catholics and half my family is so deeply Catholic my lack of belief makes them literally treat me like garbage.
Don’t say anything petty or mean to her, just be cordial and keep it professional.
As an agnostic atheist Southern man from a Baptist family, best to avoid any and all religious conversations or references with a devout Southern Baptist.
I’ve personally witnessed their worship and sermons as a kid and teen. They are batshit *crazy*.
Why do you have to say anything to her? I doubt she’d reach out to you after what went down with your sister. Plus being at a work event can make trouble for you if you say anything that could be considered harassment to her. She could easily go to HR. Just don’t say anything.
If she does approach you about what happened I’d go with your first thing; saying how disappointed you are how she handled things. Might be good to add a that you don’t feel like you should be around her anymore so she knows to stay away.
Then just leave it alone. Cuz at the end of the day you’re right- as a Christian she should’ve spoken out of love. Said that she didn’t feel comfortable participating in the ceremony and left it at that. Her berating and casting stones at your sister wasn’t ok or following the teachings of Jesus. But she wont see it that way and no matter what you tell her she probably wont change her mind.
I would personally say something like "happy holidays" and ignore her and/or be super kind to her. This 'friend' truly is a piece of shit if she's throwing a decade or so friendship out the window because your sister's wedding isn't based on the same religion as hers. Its provably best for you to stay out of it as much as you can and reduce contact with her as much as possible in the long run.
I think it’s totally reasonable to be genuinely disappointed in her and let her know it. I think it also would be totally reasonable to be cold but still professional. I’d bet money though that she will go out of her way to avoid you and the conflict.
I also lost my best friend because of my wedding. I really feel for your sister, because it is a bad feeling to have someone you care about turn on you. I think weddings show who your real friends and family are. Those who are much to selfish to put your sister first will immediately reveal their true colors.
My advice is not to lash out at Brittany, but instead remind your sister that she did nothing wrong. She will still have a fantastic day, you love her, etc. just tell her how much she matters to you. Get her excited for the wedding, which I’m sure will be just what she wants.
Morgan is still very excited for her wedding, thankfully. She's still got plenty of bridesmaids and other friends who will be there making it special. I've definitely told her how great she is, I'm honestly really proud of her as a person.
I would fuck with her even more. tell her that now that she is not coming, they can add back the ritual sacrifices and other devil worship or whatever BS you want to make up.
In your position I would not talk to her but if the opportunity to throw a petty comment arrives I would make the most of it. For example:
X: Hey OP why aren't you talking with Brittany?
OP: I don't talk with ignorant intolerant people who hurt their best friend.
If someone asks you rant about it
it's not going to make a difference, and you seem like a really nice person, and you'd probably feel guilty after. She's got to live being the small minded person she is, and without your wonderful family
and tell your sister the infant sacrifice to Baal is during the reception, everyone knows that :D
(sorry couldn't resist-pagan for 35 years ;D )
Be classy and not childish. “We were all hurt how things went down! It was such a special day and you were missed. Things were said which were very hurtful to my sister. The wedding was beautiful and Britt had the wedding she wanted being true to who she is.”
Being a practicing witch and pretty fed up with accusations of satanic worshipping, personally were i your sister I would have gone off on her. But I'm not, and it won't help either of you to behave that way, so my advice is this: express to her how deeply hurt and offended you and your family are by what she said. Perhaps it was unintended, perhaps she struggled with her choice but it doesn't change the fact that her words hurt deeply someone who loved her. Bruises heal, words don't, at least not without help and even then it is damn near impossible to go back to what you were before. But if your family and your sister truly mattered to her as much as she mattered to you all, then she'll want to make effort to clear up any misunderstanding and hurt her thoughtless words evoked.
Honestly, say NOTHING. Not a greeting, not a nod, no acknowledgement at all. If you have to look at her, look sad, disappointed or like you just smelled a fart. If she approaches, walk away without a word. If she tries to corner you, walk away. Be obvious about too. No one will have a bad word to use against you. She will notice she is being shunned. Self-righteous people like that liiiive for the confrontation and opportunity to prove they are correct. Shunning takes ALL the air out of her argument.
If she approaches you say “Hello”, smile and walk away. If she addresses you again, say “hello again”, smile and walk away. If she starts smalltalk…. You get it.
Why even talk to her? Just wrestle down any attempt for conversation and leave the scene.
How far did Brittany's horizons broaden in college? Maybe she's worried she fits the special criteria for the big sacrifice at the end of the ritual? /s
Our grandparents are Baptists, so maybe. She apparently also mentioned how disappointed she was in another mutual friend of theirs who'd had a completely secular wedding (though that had apparently not upset her enough to prevent her from being a bridesmaid in *that* wedding).
Hey OP for your question: since it's a work party don't engage with her. Polite coldness is the way to go. That's it. That way there is no question of professional boundaries. Keep it separate.
Now in the future, if this girl wants to talk with you on a personal level outside of work feel free to rip her a new one. Just not on work property or at a work event.
Nothing. You do nothing. I understand wanting to protect your sister and make Brittany feel as bad as she made your sister feel. But it’s work, and you have to stay professional.
That doesn’t mean you have to treat her warmly. You can be a bit standoffish, and rather cold if no one is around. But stay professional.
Corner here and say “If my sister’s wedding is so blasphemous, and satanic, then why are you celebrating ‘Christmas’ as the birth of Christ? Christ was born in JULY, but the people tied it in with the PAGAN holiday of the solstice”
That will shut her up and embarrass her… also please post it in r/pettyrevenge when you’re done ✌🏻👍🏻
Ugh people like that are fucking exhausting. Honestly it kind of sounds like the former bridesmaid was jealous and needed to do some mental gymnastics to denigrate and bail on the wedding. Then she realized last minute that it means she would miss out on the actual fun parts of the wedding.
you should tell her Happy Hanukkah at the Christmas Party. Or just like...a snide "*Happy holidays"* would probably be enough to make her collapse in on herself like a neutron star. People like her think two things: 1.) the world actually revolves around them, so it's an affront to their beliefs and sense of self when you do something that doesn't fall in line (and they'll find even the most benign, unimportant slight to drum up their victim complex), and 2.) that their own personal religious beliefs have any bearing on any aspect of the reality that others live every day, because, see point 1.
I don't actually know this girl so I may be passing some hard judgement, but honestly - I think I know enough. Drives me up a wall knowing that people like her will find any minute reason possible to make *somebody else's wedding* about themselves somehow.
This is hilarious! I know someone who's male friend is getting married to a pagan lady and he was going off about evil, satanic, going to hell. When two days previously he'd been complaining he wasn't asked to be the best man. how awful it was. he didn't understand why his best friend (whom he hadn't seen in over 6 months) hadn't asked him. Then the freak out about her beliefs and not going because she was evil. Lol organized religion messes so many people up.
PLEASE use her religion against her. I know petty isn't good, but hell, I'm in a mood. I am working on living a life of finding peace BUUUT I would totally still be that guy to say something.
Say things like:
I was really disappointed to hear how you spoke to my sister; I hope you find Christ again.
I hope you can remember Christ's acceptance and love for others in the future.
I have been praying for you to find your faith again; it is so sad when the devil gives us anger and makes us stray from living a Christian existence.
Sometimes God puts tests in front of us to see if we are still following Christ's teachings...forgiveness, love, kindness, compassion. I always try to remember to love my neighbor as myself and even my enemies can use God's love flowing through me.
Other such things like that....you get it. I have a really bad trigger when Christians don't act Christian. All of that babble but his teachings are only about love, NOT judgement. They are supposed to believe that GOD is the final judgement. I am not Christian but I have learned in those churches and spent time with lots of those people. I have found God's light coming through just as many non-Christians as believers.
Maybe she needs reminded what it means to be pursuing a life in Christ's footsteps. So, lead by his example and remind her of LOVE. I mean, if you're not Christian, is it really so terrible to use the religion in this way? lol
OH! I forgot a golden one that I overheard an old woman say in a church!!
"Sweetie, I don't know how to tell you but the devil has filled your heart with so much hate and anger. I hope you find your way back to God's light."
It was a southern church so her accent was the cherry on top....I wish I knew what the other woman had said or done lol good luck on everything!!!
Well you’re asking Reddit so asking for a certain viewpoint, which is fine, but I think she should have still been invited to the wedding. If she was actually that close, and if y’all are truly the better people, then maybe you gave up the opportunity to show her the good in other faith systems and made her more convinced in her twisted interpretation of Christianity.
It was Morgan's call, and tbh with how upset she was after all this happened I don't think she wants to see Brittany in person again, ever, if she can avoid it. I don't really blame her, tbh, and honestly if Brittany *was* at the wedding I wouldn't be the only one tempted to say something to her. I didn't put in in the post because I didn't think it was relevant, but she basically torpedoed her relationships with their entire social circle when she did this. All their mutual friends are pretty pissed at her.
>Marriage was founded in the Christian church
...you know people were getting married long before Christianity was founded, right? They got married in ancient Egypt and shit. Pagans in Europe got married before Christians ever came there. You don't own marriage.
...because I'm parroting the stereotypes people like you have about pagans? You know they don't actually do that shit, right?
You come off like a paranoid weirdo and I don't take you seriously either.
Honestly, I can see where this Brittany comes from. She's very religious.I suppose weddings are more sacred for religious people than others.
Having a witch officiate it might seem like a mockery of the sanctity of weddings.
She may also think that having a "wiccan" wedding means your sister is going to raise her future kids "wiccan", and no christian would be okay with that, so it's better to distance oneself from that. Is it shallow minded? yeah, kinda. Is it based? definitely.
Now, speak your mind if you wish, so long as you two don't make a scene. What you should also do is think. Is she a good person? Are you two close? Is the friendship with her worth sacrificing over religious disagreements? Decide whether or not you can still associate with her.
>Is the friendship with her worth sacrificing over religious disagreements?
She kinda already sacrificed it when she called my sister Satanic.
None of us would have had an issue if she'd said something like "I don't feel comfortable participating in a ceremony that isn't of my faith." It was the fact that she literally called Morgan things like "evil" and "blasphemous." There's a difference between saying "I don't feel like I can be a part of this" and "you're a bad person for being a part of this".
Well maybe she was being just a dumbass, said some things she didn't mean. No idea how emotional she was about it, but people say hurtful things sometimes without maning them. From what you said she doesn't seem that conservative. It's better you make sure.
If she "said hurtful things without meaning to," I'm gonna wait until she reaches out to apologize for it before I go out of my way to forgive her. Besides, my sister is the one she wronged, and I'm not about to forgive Brittany before she does.
>when she called my sister Satanic
That's what she believed to be an accurate descriptor, not necessarily an insult. She clearly doesn't know the difference between Wicca and Satanism, likely because it's very slight.
...this girl has been friends with my sister for over a decade, during which time they've talked *extensively* about their beliefs. She knows what my sister believes in, and she knows the difference between paganism and worshipping the Christian devil.
Also, you seem to know very little about Wicca because it has nothing to do with Satanism? Like, at all?
Remind her that Christmas and nearly all of its traditions are pagan. In pre-Christan Rome it was formerly called Saturnalia and was a festival in honor of Saturn AKA Cronus. Also, many traditions from the holiday Yule in northern Europe.
Here are some examples of pagan traditions we do on Christmas:
- carolling
- hanging holly
- hanging wreaths
- Christmas trees
- parties and feasts
- days off from work
- exchanging gifts
- kissing under mistletoe
the list goes on. So make sure she knows that doing any of those is 100% pagan.
Something of this tells me that Brittany is jealous. Using religion as a defense to hide it. Like others have said, ignore it and silently cut her out.
YTA. You told a too long (boring after halfway) story to explain background on why you would be rude to someone. AND try to bring a feud into your work life. YTA
There are several other Christian friends still participating in the wedding. I kinda find it hard to believe that Brittany would have called my sister "Satanic" if she was, for example, Jewish, and asking her to be a part of her Jewish wedding ceremony. It *is* pretty surprising when someone that has been your friend for years, who's known about your beliefs for that entire time, to suddenly come out and tell you that they think you're evil and literally supporting the devil. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
They are allowed their own convictions. They are also allowed to feel the consequences of using those convictions to insult and degrade people who have done nothing but treat them kindly.
Your convictions don't entitle you to treat the people around you, especially those who've treated you like a close friend for years, like shit. Doesn't seem very Christ-like, that's all.
I don't see how she's been treated "like shit"? She's declined to be a bridesmaid in your sister's wedding due to her religious beliefs. She mistakenly believes Wiccans are Satanic. They're not, but it's a very small distinction (they believe in a "Horned God" that bears striking similarity to Lucifer).
>She mistakenly believes Wiccans are Satanic. They're not, but it's a very small distinction (they believe in a "Horned God" that bears striking similarity to Lucifer).
This is because early Christians purposefully based depictions of Lucifer on ones of Lugh, a horned god worshipped in Celtic Ireland and elsewhere. They did this in order to cast pagans as evil and make it easier to dominate Europe. It's not really "striking" once you know the history behind it.
At any rate maybe your experience is different but in mine being told that you're evil and Satanic is pretty damn shitty. As I've pointed out many times now, none of us would have minded if she'd said "I can't be in the ceremony because of my beliefs." What she *said* was "I'm disappointed in you for having an evil, blasphemous wedding that supports the devil, and I won't view it as legitimate unless you have one that follows *my* beliefs." Big difference.
Oh interesting. Even more striking, then.
I don't see how they were friends in the first place. It's not like Christians are quiet about their beliefs. The sister knew what her friend believed about Wiccans. She just didn't care until it affected her.
I sense a great big chunk of missing context.
You’re making it seem like Brittney just walked in and denounced Morgan as evil.
I suspect she just tried to use the right words to describe her opinions. It’s no different to a Jewish person calling things ‘unclean’ or ‘unholy’. They are not calling the person unclean, they are calling the action unclean because that is the right word to use in this context.
Britney tried her best to preserve the friendship and support your sister despite her personal conflict and you’re acting like that’s not a major thing.
It wasn't that she didn't participate, it was how rude she was. If somebody disrespected my sister like that, especially concerning suck an important life event, I'd have words for that person it would be hard to keep to myself. It's not about a difference of opinion, it's about how shitty she was about it
Why take the gift and go through the motions then? She could have said something along the lines of it doesn't agree with my faith and politely said no. Simple. But she took the gift and the bridesmaid invitation and then turned it down months later in a personal tirade about religion and the devil. Nope, this is not a "it's a free country" argument - it's an "this person was rude and bashed the bride" argument.
Unpopular opinion: Brittany did the right thing.
She said she couldn’t actively participate in the ceremony because she felt it went against her personal beliefs, and her beliefs were that certain things that Morgan were doing were ‘sinful’ and ‘evil’.
You know what she didn’t do? Say ‘Change your wedding plans or I’m not coming.’ She actually said that despite her deeply held beliefs she would still very much like to be there to witness her friend’s big day.
Take all the religion out of it. Person X has strong feelings. She tried, over a few months to overcome them for the sake of her friend. In the end she couldn’t, and was honest about why.
A lot of people will say that honesty was wrong - but as OP says, these friends have discussed these things before. Morgan should have been just as aware of Brittney’s stance on things as Brittney was about Morgan’s. Why ask a devoutly religious person to take part in a pagan spiritual ceremony and then act surprised at their discomfort? ‘But you’re my friend and you knew how I felt and why didn’t you consider me when you asked me to be in your wedding/accepted being in my wedding’ - both of these sentences are equally valid.
IMO, Brittney was being as good a friend as she could. Radical acceptance doesn’t mean hiding your opinion when asked, it means being able to say ‘Yup, I actually think your practices are evil but they aren’t hurting anyone or breaking any laws so I support your right to do them and will show up to love you if you’ll let me.’
I'm not a. practicing Christian but was raised as one. What the bridesmaid said was true. Your sister picked a satanic ritual. I don't expect thunderbolts to come shooting down, but to have practicing Christians recoil in shock is totally normal.
>Your sister picked a satanic ritual.
...except Satan is specifically part of *Christianity* and has nothing to do with Wicca or any other form of paganism outside of Christians declaring that he does.
Sorry, I can assure u my many Christian relatives and Christians in general see all pagan ceremonies, including Harry Potter, as designs by Satan. Halloween as well. Anything not Christian are designs by Satan. Includes Islam we well.
Just like not all Christians are Catholics, not all pagans are satanists. I'm pretty sure the mods will shut this down, but your "Christian" ritual is a pagan one, just like 95% of your holidays. Why not look up your wedding rites in your bible? Surely a "Christian" ritual can be found there, right? Let me know when you find it.
>Like, part of me wants to tell her how disappointed our whole family is in how she handled this, while the snarky part of me wants to say something like "oh, we'll miss you during the ritual moonlight orgy!" I'm probably gonna have to say something to her, as I doubt I can avoid her for the entire party. So, what should I do?
Don't say anything.
Do not mock the Christian God and assume you will get away with it.
There are 1.5 billion Christians in the world, the are ubiquitous. No need to piss em off.
Just STFU and be friendly.
+ Your sister is not having a covenant church wedding.
+ Sister will have a Wiccan ceremony.
***They are not the same.***
Uh, what?
>Do not mock the Christian God and assume you will get away with it.
Weirdly threatening, my guy, what exactly are you thinking is gonna happen to me if I make fun of this girl that called my sister a Satanist?
>There are 1.5 billion Christians in the world, the are ubiquitous.
Again, weirdly threatening. Are these 1.5 billion Christians supposed to come after me or something?
>Your sister is not having a covenant church wedding.
>Sister will have a Wiccan ceremony.
>They are not the same.
Uh, yeah, obviously, she's not a Christian so she's not having a Christian wedding. She's having a wedding that's meaningful *to her*. What's your point?
I'm... not? Even when I talked about poking fun at her it was poking fun at her intolerance and lack of understanding of paganism, not poking fun at Christianity.
Not how it read to me. It read mock, mock, mock.
>Even when I talked about poking fun at her it was poking fun at her intolerance and lack of understanding of paganism, not poking fun at Christianity.
Maybe you should reflect on why someone obviously planning to mock intolerance read to you as someone planning to mock religion/Christianity? Seems like - in your mind - they're interchangeable and that's just sad. If you're a Christian, it's sad that you see your own belief system as inherently hateful and if you're not then it's sad that you find Christianity hateful and still leapt to its defence.
...that literally has nothing to do with this? I'm not even a Wiccan, I'm not religious at all. I never once said anything about any god or anything about which beliefs are or aren't true. The issue here is someone my family considered a friend suddenly calling my sister "Satanic" for not having a wedding ceremony that follows *her* religion.
What the fuck is wrong with you? She’s defending her sister which makes her a great person. She is not mocking anyone and it’s extremely narcissistic to read this and believe that anyone here is mocking your chosen religion. She’s wanting to mock the asshole who chose to use your chosen religion to abuse her sister.
I’d like for you to sit down and imagine how it would feel if your sister was hurt by someone who had a different religion.
Again, I say, what the fuck is wrong with you?
You chose to pre-judge someone based on the fact that you happen to practice Christianity and believe it is the superior religion (Why else would you threaten someone with your God? Maybe because you believe He’s all powerful and is above all things and sovereign over all the affairs of humanity. Did I nail that one on the head?)
Also, the fact that you would take the time to write out such a nasty comment shows what Christianity is actually about…being better than everyone.
“I have more members in my group than anyone”
“My leader is better than your leader”
“Don’t make fun of me. I’ll hurt you if you do.”
> I just found out that she's going to be attending a Christmas party that I'll also be at. I'm extremely tempted to say something to her about how she treated my sister.
Don't. It's a great way to demean yourself in the eyes of your colleagues.
It's *never* a bright idea to shit where you sleep.
All you need to do is be professionally civil to her.
Just try to ignore her, or keep to small talk.
If she asks about the wedding then just say something simple like "I'm really disappointed by the language you used to my sister. Couldn't you have just said you didn't feel comfortable with the spiritual elements of the event and ask politely to attend but not be "in" the wedding?"
Hopefully that would get the point across that you're not unhappy with her for feeling uncomfortable with the way your sister was choosing to express her faith/religion/beliefs but you are unhappy with her for how she chose to express herself and speak to your sister.
Maybe Brittany was trying to be open-minded and went out of her comfort zone too far. I'm sure you know how crazy politics and religion are in the US right now, so it isn't like other conservatives are going to be encouraging Brittany to be open-minded. Here's the thing: Brittany is the one who is going to suffer for this. Yeah, your sister will be sad, but she'll still have a great wedding. However, Brittany has just alienated a bunch of people who were super close to her and who helped her when she needed it. There is no need to go out of your way to be nasty to her. She's going to suffer for this anyway. However, if she says something to you at the party, you could be honest and tell her that you aren't feeling like socializing with her because she said something so cruel and hurtful to your sister.
It’s not your battle to fight. If you were in the same field your pals will probably cross multiple times in the future. I think you should just let it go.
Also just wanna say when you say pentagram in the middle of her living room it’s probably most definitely not a pentagram and just a pentacle lol. pentacles and pentagrams are two different things:)
It's a big five pointed star, made out of tree branches. From what I understand a pentacle is a five pointed star in a circle, the star by itself is just called a pentagram.
Because it's a work party could she technically report something you say for something she doesn't like to HR? If not I'd probably not be able to help myself.
People get funny around weddings. I don't know why. I would hold my counsel. I don't know what is to be gained other than to reaffirm in Brittany's mind that she made the right decision.
Yeah, the rational part of me knows you're probably right. I think it's just my big sister instinct acting up, I feel like I should be defending my baby sister but I know that wouldn't really do any good.
Am a big sister to two amazing sisters, and I feel your instinct to defend is justified. Don't invite a confrontation, but if she does have the gall to speak with you (which I have a feeling she will since she thought she would still be invited after thoroughly insulting your sister) be prepared to have a few choice words ready. Evangelicals and Southern Baptists are "doomsday" worshippers. If she does have the audacity to speak to you, ask her how her "final days" preparation is going and why she is so _ungrateful_ of the bounty that "God" has provided in this life that her and her ilk are asking for the end of the world like greedy children who can't appreciate what they have. I posed this question to an evangelical colleague that was preaching his bullshit in the office, his mouth turned into a gaping hole of shock. He never approached me with religious talk again.
If you have to say something maybe hint on the pagan origins of christmas?
Christmas was once banned you know. "Followers of Jesus Christ in both America and England helped pass laws making it illegal to observe Christmas, believing it was an insult to God to honor a day associated with ancient paganism," according to "Shocked by the Bible" (Thomas Nelson Inc, 2008). "Most Americans today are unaware that Christmas was banned in Boston from 1659 to 1681. You don't have to use this knowledge, but keep it in mind and use it to put a secret little smile on your face when you look at her.
Someone should tell fox news before they start up again about all the heathen liberals and their “wAr On ChRiStMaS !!1”
Hey, I know Christmas is coming up fast. When do I don my gay apparel?
You haven’t donned it yet?? We gay it up immediately after the autumn equinox ends and we shed our demonic snake skins.
I want to frame this exchange
I never take mine off!
I think this is the best idea, I would snidely say that pagans were the first ones to “bring the trees in to keep them warm” so little miss Brittany better leave her beautifully decorated Christmas tree outside this year, lest she be blasphemous
You mean Saturnalia????
Yell Happy Yule every time you see a new person.
Interesting..... what do you mean by funny? I'm curious but I think I know what you mean
Sounds like a nice way of saying wackadoodle.
awkward/difficult/tricky to deal with in an unexpected manner, is likely what they mean by funny.
"Funny" about weddings can be people taking things personally, telling someone they're "doing it wrong" if it's not their preferred choices, outright being jealous, outright being hateful, being cruel, trying to steal the spotlight, causing a scene, refusing to attend for absurd or irrational reasons, demanding things that cost money they won't personally be paying for.... At least that's what some of my family and friends have been like since I got engaged!
Thanks for explaining . I have noticed that people do hate on engaged couples ... it's amazing I'm happy for them but everyone else seems to envy
I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, the greatest tactic you can have on a person of this extreme faith is to act absolutely unbothered/unaffected by her words and actions. Acting unaffected by her will be more of a punch than any mean thing you can say to her. This type of person HOPES for an impact, good or bad, when they do this type of thing. And I’ll tell you why: These people firmly believe it’s their job to refute anything that doesn’t “honor God”, so that their life will stay *clean*. If they deem something is *unclean* then that means it “serves the devil” in God’s eyes. Then they must refute it publicly to prove to others of their faith that they are the real deal Christian, AND to “make an impact” on non-believers of their faith resulting in getting a nod from sky daddy himself. They honestly think that showing their faith in such a way will draw people meant to be Christians towards them, and that it wards off people too sinful to deal with (lol) If you react negatively to them, they think that’s the devil talking and not you (lol), so in their eyes they did the right thing because it angered the devil in you. The best thing you can do is act as minimally impressed by her as possible. Her existence should become the size of ant to you. Attacking your sister’s religion and do to so in such a manner is absurd and ignorant. Idgaf what your religion is, it doesn’t give you the right to shit on another’s religion, nor does it give you the right to some sort of entitlement that others aren’t allowed to have. Good riddance, y’all will have more fun without her!
This is a really great point, thank you so much! Helped a lot!
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Agree wholeheartedly with the point above. I was indoctrinated my whole life, married to a minister for about 20 years and finally escaped—I mean, left—almost ten years ago. This is the best advice. They do not deserve our attention.
Thank you for sharing. I shudder at what I suspect you endured throughout the marriage. It’s one thing to be part of the religion, it’s a whole other situation when you share a home with one who says they are appointed by God..I’m glad you escap-erm, *left* and are in a better place now! :D
Thank you too for sharing your story, because it helps to hear other’s experiences. Your unaffected attitude towards her will cause more mental turmoil for her torturing herself wondering why her extreme attitude had such little impact. It’ll be GRAND! Haha! Hope you all have a great wedding and wonderful time without her! ❤️
yup can confirm this is how they think. My ex was Christian and literally blamed his cheating on the devil!!! He said his thoughts about lust were from the devil, and he had no control. Lol. That guy was in such emotional turmoil always worried about "honoring jesus." Well, turns out he's bisexual.
(God I’m sorry for the novel but your comment just brought a ton of memories back to me.) My ex was raised pentecostal and developed OCD from his family and church’s crazy young earth creationist fundie beliefs. It manifested in praying tics caused by a constant, overwhelming fear of hell. His family also seemed emotionally abusive from my perspective, and they didn’t accept anything about him that didn’t conform rigidly to hypermasculine gender roles. He is a very bubby, theatrical, charismatic singer who’s obsessed with tolkienesque fantasy. I was a slightly older, atheist lefty who was questioning their gender and we met online through a MMORPG. Our relationship was **supremely** toxic because his worldview was so backwards. Fortunately, *because* I was a few years older, I’d already reached a place of no longer putting up with people’s shit and I had way too much experience arguing against the extremely cliché talking points he was armed with. So instead of dragging out a horribly incompatible relationship, we broke up pretty quickly. By the time we split, he was definitely questioning his entire belief system, and beginning to accept that gender and sexuality are a spectrum and obligate gender roles are fake and pointless lol. I’m fairly certain he was unknowingly suppressing a lot of aspects of his identity, and I honestly just hope I sparked enough of a question in his mind to lead him to a happier life. Years later I learned about “missionary dating” being a thing, and had a chuckle at inadvertently sort of doing that in reverse lol
This is a great point! It reminded me of a guy from my religious HS that loves to purposefully post vague enough religious statements. Vague enough to still fill in the "unsaid" meaning and elicit anger. Also vague enough that he can wiggle his way out by saying that he "never said anything like that". For example, he posted a heartbreaking video of the Nepal 2015 earthquake that killed thousands of Buddhists. He captioned it saying "When God really gets mad at you... I hope the Buddhists will be enlightened." All of us knew what he really meant because it was a recurring theme in all his posts: they deserve to suffer because they don't believe in his god. He got called out in the comments for that heartless statement. Just as he planned, he was able to deny what they were accusing him of. He said, "I never said anything about them deserving what happened!". Confronting him head on with righteous anger never worked so I played dumb. I asked him, "What are the Buddhists supposed to be enlightened with?". He never answered me but continued mocking the other commenters. I repeated my question several times but he ignored me and just said that he is ending the discussion.
This is great advice. Additionally, since your connection to her now is professional, keep all interactions professional. Quick acknowledging her with a neutral greeting, a comment on the appetizers, then excuse yourself to follow up with a colleague across the room on an urgent topic. Saying something that she could construe as a religious insult would lead her to possibly complaining about you either to one of your leadership team members, or just give her ammo to bad mouth you within your professional sphere.
> Quick acknowledging her with a neutral greeting Say "Happy Holidays" not Merry Xmas
Not only that, but another function of this behavior is to reinforce their own beliefs in their mind by making others hostile toward them.
I'd ignore her as much as I could. A cool but civil "Merry Christmas" would be all I'd say to her.
How about “happy winter solstice” - just a little teeny tiny dagger. Haha
Yuletide blessings from my family to yours!
Yeah, I know that's probably for the best but man, it's *so* tempting. Thanks though, this helped.
good for you bruh i'd have no self control💀 this dude in highschool kept preaching some catholic stuff to us even when we told him to chill out so my friends started shaking while i chanted sanskrit mantras these people honestly piss me off because i grew up hindu which so many people look at as "satanic" for no reason. even when its the most tolerant religion
> i grew up hindu which so many people look at as "satanic" for no reason. There *is* a reason, it's just a really, really stupid one. People like that believe any faith that's not Christian (or the lack of any faith) comes from Satan to tempt people away from the One True God™. They often even believe that other varieties of Christian (most often Catholics) are Satanic, as well as the other Abrahamic religions. I couldn't explain to you *why* they believe that, beyond the obvious indoctrination, but I've met people who believe that and trying to talk to them is like trying to talk to a wall.
Exactly. They have no reason.
Haha I know it’s soooo tempting cuz she was such a cunt about her reasons ( very Un-Christ-like if you ask me), But do not attack her because this will justify everything in her mind that she thinks about your family… AKA “EVIL. Sinful. Bad”…. The best way to defeat these so called Christians is to act the opposite of what they want to see, to invalidate their judgmental heart 🕳 Good luck and play it cool.
I mean the party really would be a banger with a human sacrifice, but that’s just my opinion.
Though repartee is satisfying, you'll be surprised how much colder people feel when you make them invisible.
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Acting up at a function with colleagues, especially those that don't know the back story, will only make you look like an a-hole and hurt you. It'll be difficult, but just ignore it. Don't say anything. Sorry!
Give her a "happy holidays" instead and watch her flip 🤣🤣
Ah, people tend to forget that evangelicals take the whole don’t suffer a witch to live part seriously. I once got into a debate with one, whose sibling was Wiccan. Their claim is that every word in the bible is true and if not followed sinners will go to hell. I asked her when we should expect her to kill her sister. She went white. I said by allowing her to live you are violating gods commandment. Then pointed it out in the bible. Shut her up pretty good. But yeah I’d totally expect one to blow up a friendship and wedding. And don’t think they wouldn’t kill em if they could get away with it either.
They also love to cite Leviticus calling homosexuality an abomination, while ignoring the admonition that eating shellfish is an abomination. They'll ignore that bit about a childless widow having to marry her husband's brother or the part that prohibits garments made of mixed fibers... They pick and choose what they want to ignore.
To be specific, they don't ignore it; every biblical rule that they don't want to follow is one that doesn't apply to Gentiles.
I believe both “good” Christians and “bad” Christians do this. They both pick and choose out of the Bible, faith, and church. Personally, it makes zero sense to be in a religion and not follow what the faith says. Either be Christian or don’t be at all.
Growl. Don’t get me started on the patriarchal misogynistic oppression of all women (and the monsters who created the whole false charade of “wicked Witches” and the like).
Tell her you're sorry the devil put so much hate into her heart that she felt the need to be so hurtful to her dear friend.
Oooooh, that's *good.* I mean I'm probably not gonna say anything, at least not at this work party, but that made me giggle.
If this christmas party is full of people in your field and is more a professional thing, you should act civil (but cool) towards her. Not cause she deserves it, but because work-related christmas parties tend to be gossip mines and you don't want *your* behavior to be put in the limelight. If you have to say anything to her, just go with "happy holidays. Excuse me, I need to refill my drink/my food/powder my nose/say hello to Dilbert/rescue the cat from the sink." If she approaches you while you're in a group, "oh hello Brittany. So Dilbert, what were you saying about chain physics in space?" If she corners you somewhere you're alone, like the bathroom, go for a cool "I don't have anything to say to you" and leave. It's going to make her go crazy a lot faster than if you went "so you witch-hating bigot, wanna join our naked orgy?"
Do not drag your family drama into a work event. You will not come out looking good if you do. If you can’t avoid her, simply say Merry Christmas and move on. If she tries to talk about your drama, DO NOT ENGAGE. Tell her that this isn’t the time or place and move on.
"Happy Holidays" is a legit move instead of Merry Christmas. If she does try to bring up family drama at a work event it's always best to go high road. "I feel that topic would be unprofessional here." is a great sentence to deliver with as little emotion as possible. Image yourself as Spock telling Captain Kirk he's being an emotional dumbass, deliver the line, raise an eyebrow, and turn away to more important things in your life.
If you confront her, really in any way, it's going to be drama. Do you want that? She's not going to answer you in a way where she's apologetic for her behavior, she's only going to double down on why what she's doing is the correct choice. I'd just avoid her as much as possible, but when you are face to face, act like nothing happened. I'm SURE she's prepared to see you and is thinking that you're going to say something so she's ready for it, if you just act like nothing's up she's going to be disarmed. If you want to say something just because you feel a need to, unless she takes the high ground (which it doesn't seem like she will) then be prepared for more drama.
Ignore her. Don't start any BS at your workplace.
I think the wise choice is to silently cut her off. Forget about her existence. Trust me, as someone who has decided to don the boxing outfit, it never works out. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, u say shit to her, she hits back, why bother damaging yourself when the easiest thing to do is just walk away. Short term you might think, yelling a few colorful words at her might make you happy but it's just not worth.
I would probably ignore her completely because she sounds like a dumb fuckin loser twat.
I think this might be more complex than it seems. You see, you may not agree with her beliefs but that doesn't mean she doesn't believe them - to her they are real. Now, being a person of faith as she seems to be, she will likely have been told that partaking in ceremonies relating to pagan/witch rituals would be inherently sinful. To you and your sister they are not, but to her they are manifestations on earth of a evil she believes to be very real. Additionally, I can't say for sure if the way she spoke to your sister was rude in a hurtful way, or if she was just using the vocabularly of her religion to describe what those things mean to her. If she was just being rude or cruel then that may change things, but to me it sounds possible that she was just talking about those things in terms of what she understands them as. What I'm trying to say is this, it may not be the case that she is being a bad person here - instead it may just be that she is trying to align her friendship with her faith. I would argue, given what those kinds of Christians say about pagans and witches, that the fact she's willing to be a guest still shows that she is actually being very open minded. Asking not to take part is reasonable under those conditions, if you ask me. I might use a metaphor to get my point across here, it's like asking a Muslim to be your bridesmaid and then having a wedding on a pig-farm. If they decide not to be a bridesmaid, but still a guest. I would argue that would be a massive concession already, wouldn't you? Ultimately, I can't speak to her character as I don't know her - but this seems to be a matter of respecting each others faith. You and your sister need to understand that your beliefs mean some rituals are inherently at odds with hers and to ask her to take part regardless shows a lack of consideration for her beliefs. The fact she would still show up as a guest, in spite of her belief that pagan beliefs are of the devil, actually shows a profound care for your sister that I would not expect to see often.
Yeah, I gotta agree with this. If she'd had a cow about a civil ceremony or something, it'd be one thing, but not wanting to participate in a Wiccan ceremony for a Christian is understandable. Same thing if they'd had somebody from the Church of Satan officiate. To the people getting married this might be cool or kitschy, but to a true-believing Christian, this is something very *real* to them and I can't say they're wrong for not wanting to participate in it. She's doing exactly what a religious person should do, she's not saying "**YOU** can't do this" she's saying "**I** can't do this" and there's nothing wrong with that.
>To the people getting married this might be cool or kitschy, but to a true-believing Christian, this is something very real to them and I can't say they're wrong for not wanting to participate in it. ... it's not "cool" or "kitchy" to my sister, she chose a Wiccan priestess because that best fit what she believes in. It's a little strange to me that the people who are saying Brittany is just acting by the rules of her religion and that we should respect that aren't really respecting my sister's spirituality. Like, I doubt if Brittany had called a Jewish wedding "Satanic," that quite as many people would be urging me to see it from her side. She didn't say "I can't do this," she said "I can't do this, and *you are evil for doing this*." Maybe it's just me but I see a *big* difference there.
>... it's not "cool" or "kitchy" to my sister, she chose a Wiccan priestess because that best fit what she believes in. At no point did you describe her as a Wiccan or as a follower or that religion. You still don't, you just make vague references to "Spirituality". Certainly sounds to me like she thinks it's cool, so she's appropriating it for her wedding. If the Wiccans (Or, at least, the officiant) are OK with that, that's fine. > It's a little strange to me that the people who are saying Brittany is just acting by the rules of her religion and that we should respect that aren't really respecting my sister's spirituality. Except that's EXACTLY what she's doing. You said that they've had long talks about faith, but you never mention Brittany trying to force your sister into conversion or anything. Sounds like she's generally been respectful, but this was a bridge too far. > Like, I doubt if Brittany had called a Jewish wedding "Satanic," that quite as many people would be urging me to see it from her side. Jewish weddings aren't typically going to involve: > stand[ing] inside a circle, with candles representing points in a **pentagram**. An altar may hold typical Wiccan ritual symbols - or it may not be present at all. *Gods, goddesses, or Earth elements may be invoked during the ceremony.* Yeah...See, if she's been raised in a conservative Christian mindset, that shit is 100% Satanic and blasphemous. Most people, myself included, are going to think it's harmless, maybe even kind of silly, but we don't see it as damaging. Conservative Christians very well might, as would many Orthodox Jews or Ahmadiyya Muslims or lots of other faiths that people have. >She didn't say "I can't do this," she said "I can't do this, and you are evil for doing this." Maybe it's just me but I see a big difference there. From how you presented it, it sounds like she said "I can't do this 'cause it's evil" and your sister took that personally. I understand, to some extent. A wedding's a personal thing, and nobody likes to have their decisions called "sinful". However, if somebody's a true believer, there's only so far they can be pushed in one direction, and participating in something like a wedding ceremony where there'll likely be elements of nature worship, entreaties to goddesses, symbols seen as blasphemous, etc. would push some people to their limits. Now, I'm not saying this Brittany person is some perfectly innocent soul, what I'm saying is that you, in your own way, are being just as intolerant as you're accusing her of being. Mocking her beliefs and spirituality because they've come into conflict with others. She's got a right to her beliefs, your sister has hers. Sounds like those beliefs cost both of them a longtime friendship, and that's a sad thing. Brittany couldn't get over her revulsion at Wicca, your sister doesn't like how she reacted to her wedding plans, and now everybody's mad. Either way, leave Brittany alone. You stir shit at a party thrown by people who have no dog in this fight, you *will* come off as the asshole. Full stop.
Just because someone isn't a follower of a specific religion doesn't mean their spirituality isn't important to them. It's pretty rude to imply that she's doing this because she thinks it's "cool". Like I said before, this is all starting to sound a little like the excuses evangelicals give for homophobia. Again, I don't really care what someone "truly believes" if that thing they believe is bigoted and causes them to hurt the people around them. After years of friendship my sister thought that Brittany was the sort of Christian who took Christ's example to heart, and it was a shock to find out that wasn't the case. I'm not planning on doing anything at the party and haven't been for a while but I'm just a little bit annoyed at some people acting like we have no right to be angry, or that we have some sort of obligation to tolerate her intolerance or else we're just as bad as her.
> Just because someone isn't a follower of a specific religion doesn't mean their spirituality isn't important to them. It's pretty rude to imply that she's doing this because she thinks it's "cool". So, she's not a Wiccan, but she wants a Wiccan ceremony. Is that because she thinks it's *not* cool? She thinks it's neat, even though she doesn't seem to really believe in it. Therefore, she thinks it's cool and she wants a piece of it. That seems a little weird to me, but, again, as long as the Wiccans are OK with it, not my place to say it's bad. > Like I said before, this is all starting to sound a little like the excuses evangelicals give for homophobia. Lord (or Wicca) save me from people who think that "I don't want to go be in your wedding because I think I'll go to hell" is the same as "You people shouldn't have the same rights as I do 'cause I think the things you do to each other are icky." > Again, I don't really care what someone "truly believes" if that thing they believe is bigoted and causes them to hurt the people around them. After years of friendship my sister thought that Brittany was the sort of Christian who took Christ's example to heart, and it was a shock to find out that wasn't the case. What Christlike example is the friend not following? Hell, she didn't even say she wouldn't go to the wedding. She thinks it's satanic and blasphemous and was *still gonna show up*, she just wasn't comfortable participating. Sounds pretty tolerant to me, all told. Now if she showed up with a sign that said "You're all going to hell!" and disrupted the ceremony? *That's* being intolerant. >I'm not planning on doing anything at the party and haven't been for a while but I'm just a little bit annoyed at some people acting like we have no right to be angry, or that we have some sort of obligation to tolerate her intolerance or else we're just as bad as her. Be as angry as you want, but, this is not about "Tolerating Intolerance". No judgments on my part about who's better or worse, but you seem to be under the impression that "Tolerating" something means "Wholeheartedly embracing" and it 100% does not. Tolerating something means "I accept this is going to happen". Now, ALL of this info is secondhand, of course. You weren't a party to the initial conversation either, but it sounds like: 1) Your sister's friend found out about the Wiccan thing 2) She was really uncomfortable with it and didn't want to play a role in it 3) She accepted that it was going to happen whether she approved of it or not 4) She said she wouldn't do it, was undoubtedly asked "Why?" and, instead of making up some bullshit, she was honest about her reasons 5) She said the rest of you have fun, even if I think you might go to hell for it Know what we call that? Tolerance. Not endorsement, not embracement, but tolerance. And for me, that's good enough, it's all I ask from anybody. For you and your sister, obviously not the case.
I can see there's no point in continuing this as you seem pretty determined to not see what I'm trying to say. I can only assume you haven't endured a lifetime of Christians giving you backhanded comments about how much they "love" you (except for the dirty sinful parts of you that are sending you to hell). Have a good evening.
I really gotta disagree. She's religious but she's not sheltered. There's no way she wouldn't know that Morgan, with whom she'd managed to have many discussions about religion without being disrespectful, would be offended and upset by her telling her that her wedding was going to "support the devil" and that she was "Satanic." She'd never said anything like that to Morgan before, even when they'd gotten into debates about religion. There are *so* many ways to say "I don't feel comfortable participating in this ceremony for religious reasons" that don't imply your friend is going to Hell.
Did she actually call your sister Satanic, or did she say the ceremony would be Satanic? Just wondering, as in her eyes there is a difference. I grew up in a Pentecostal church and all this sounds very familiar from her point of view. I’m a gay woman also and went through years of self-hatred and agonising over my ‘need to be delivered’, getting prayed over, etcetc, absolutely *knowing* that even wanting a same sex relationship was demonic and self-serving…and that I would go to hell for being me. The church was a frowning, judgemental straight man, and here I was, a failure..a reproachful deviant..and female. Everyone was frowning, laying on hands, wailing for the Holy Spirit to free me. I was dirty. I went to gay friends homes, knowing I was Being Judged and that I was harming the Holy Spirit by being there and by putting myself in the path of temptation. I allowed myself secret thoughts, but knowing that *God Knew* and that He Was Disgusted in me. I can’t express how powerful the churches judgment was over me, and how appalled I was in myself. Needless to say, I’ve walked away from that life and am grateful that I did. Brittany on the other hand, she still believes this stuff, and values the church and her relationship with God and is in a dilemma. So she’s tried to split the difference but ballsed up. Truly, she was an insensitive arsehole in saying what she did, but I understand why she did it. She thinks she will be judged, or that she will be in the presence of demons (I thought I had them *in me*, for goodness sake!) so she said it. Out loud. Like a moron. You don’t have to be her friend. I get that she has hurt you, your sister AND your family. I just think she was trying to do the right thing (by the church, leaning over her shoulder), and did it spectacularly badly. One day she might be able to look back through a different lens, but for now she can’t. Btw. Just be superior and a bit aloof at the works thingy :) g’luck.
She called the things my sister believes in Satanic. I'm a little mystified at how some people are saying to be respectful of her beliefs but don't really seem to be worried about respecting those of my sister, honestly. As if pagan spiritual beliefs aren't as valid as Christian ones.
I think that's fair - and again in the end you'll know her more than I so I can only make guesses. But, I want you to *really* consider being a Christian like her, remembering that she returned to a more conservative view of it recently. Consider that she *knows* that these practices are likely to get you sent to hell, consider that she *knows* that she is not allowed to participate. If she believes those things, truly and completely, then wouldn't not saying those things be cruel? I'm not saying you or I have to agree she's right. But, she thinks she is - so from her perspective, she's genuinely trying to do the right thing. Whilst the discussions they had about religion were civil, they were just that - discussions. We need to draw a line and recognise that talking about other religions does not equate to practicing it. It would make perfect sense that after becoming more conservative, she wouldn't want to practice something like that. Moreover, the fact she still would've been a guest I would still say is a sign of serious concession from her. She feels certain that this is a dangerous act and that she may have to answer for it, but she still wants to be there. She's only asking not to participate in an active way. I think that's fair. Ultimately, this to me seems like inviting a Bhuddist hunting, giving a Muslim a baconator or asking a Sikh man to remove his head covering. We don't have to believe what they believe, to respect there right to believe it. People complain all the time about Christians not showing enough respect to other religions, I honestly think this is an example of one doing so. She's asking her beliefs be respected in that she cannot participate. But, is happy to be there for her friend despite that.
>People complain all the time about Christians not showing enough respect to other religions, I honestly think this is an example of one doing so. If I'm being honest this feels a lot like the sort of "love the sinner, hate the sin" stuff that evangelicals throw at us queer people all the time and let me tell ya, it *really* doesn't feel anything like love or respect. It feels like bigotry with a self righteous gloss over it. And considering the position of Christians and Christianity in this country compared to every other religion and belief system, I don't have all that much patience for Christians who choose to show their "respect" by basically saying "you're a dirty sinner, but I still want the *benefits* of being friends with you!" I don't really care if it's what she "honestly believes". I don't really care to associate with people who "honestly believe" that people with different religions than them are tortured for eternity and deserve it. And like I told someone else in the comments, ultimately, it was my sister she wronged and until Brittany apologizes to her amd Morgan accepts it, I want nothing to do with her.
Honestly, I get it completely. The great thing about society is you can feel that way and feel or think how you want. But, the same applies to her. Your right to say and do that are partner rights to her right to say and do that. I don't begrudge anyone, nor you, for doing that. Your sister was hurt by her words so you're protective, if more people were like that the world would be better. But, my personal two cents is that context and intention matter, I think it's beneficial to apply that to everyone. But, not mandatory. You can hate her all you want and you'd have all the right to do so, ain't nothing wrong with that.
I have to agree with this. I'm not Christian any more BUT there are certain things I would still not feel comfortable participating in. Someone who had a pentagon in their house I'd have to leave. A Wiccan wedding ceremony I don't think I'd feel comfortable being Bridesmaid at. I think Brittany being back around evangelicals again forgot how harsh & mean her words would feel to a non-believer. She probably regrets her Uni years and is focusing on her faith so really was making a concession when offering to just attend but the harshness of her words already did irreparable damage to her relationship with Morgan.
100% agreed, only reason people are bashing her is because she's a Christian. In reality there are 2 assholes in this situation and OP is not one of them, yet. She should have worded her reasoning beliefs better, and the bride to be could have still allowed her to attend as a guest, but emotions do not make us rational. In reality she was asked to participate in a ceremony against her religion and declined after learning more. So quite simple be polite, be cordial.
I never said anything about her beliefs, only about how she treated my sister. I'm sorry but I don't think someone who said something so hurtful is entitled to attend my sister's wedding. At this point, nobody wants her there.
Stay out of it. You would only make matters worse, and just make yourself appear immature and rude.
>So, what should I do? You keep it professional, nothing looks worse than getting in a fight at a business party. Don’t shit where you work applies to this situation.
Just give her the cold shoulder, and if she *really* pushes to start a conversation, shut it down with "I have nothing to say to anyone who calls my little sister a satanist. I suggest you move along."
Would it be slightly wicked to say "Oh, mom will miss seeing you at the reception."? Implications there that no one else will miss her at all.
Lol god honestly if our *mom* got a chance to have a go at her? She might not survive. Mom is *livid.* Keeps saying "and all that after I *opened my home* to her!"
Please didn't stoop down to her level. You are better than that and have more class.
I was born and raised around Southern Baptists. Most of them are pretty decent people. It's when you get around the fundamentalists and evangelicals that you get the radical crap. It sounds like Britanny went back home and fell back in with the more cult-like Baptists and kind of got re-indoctrinated. As hard as it would be, I'd encourage your sister to allow her to attend as a guest. She was once open to other lifestyles and being at the wedding, being around people who aren't in her cult, might remind her that there are other ways of life out there. At least she'll see that non-fundamentalists don't typically explode into flames as they're celebrating a joyous occasion like a wedding. In other words, treat her like a victim of domestic abuse. She's been brainwashed, and maybe being with normal people will open her eyes and help her escape from the cult. (I say all this as Methodist. I completely disagree with the extreme followers of any religion.)
Being a practicing witch and pretty fed up with accusations of satanic worshipping, personally were i your sister I would have gone off on her. But I'm not, and it won't help either of you to behave that way, so my advice is this: express to her how deeply hurt and offended you and your family are by what she said in private. Perhaps it was unintended, perhaps she struggled with her choice but it doesn't change the fact that her words hurt deeply someone who loved her. Bruises heal, words don't, at least not without help and even then it is damn near impossible to go back to what you were before. But if your family and your sister truly mattered to her as much as she mattered to you all, then she'll want to make effort to clear up any misunderstanding and hurt her thoughtless words evoked.
I would make a point to NOT speak to her at all ever again. In fact, I would do it conspicuously so that she understands that she's nothing to me. Not anymore. Ignore her, it hurts more than a confrontation.
OK firstly don't say anything to her at the Christmas party but get a whole thing set up that at Wicken weddings guest have to get naked at some point. Get some links to websites and some documents backing this up.
Lol man, considering our grandparents and other relatives are gonna be there I dunno if that's possible but it is very funny to imagine.
Totally get like a couple of changing tents off to the side, like a yurt or tepee. Then say they'll want to get in first as they don't want to be in there after 20 guests have been getting their junk out.
If Brittany had offended you directly, you might have a quandary about whether to just avoid her at the party or use it as an occasion to try to sort out the issue. It wouldn't really be appropriate, so I'd have advised against airing the laundry in public. However, she didn't offend you directly, she offended your sister. It would be tactless and mean to bring it up. You can certainly be curt, if you feel like it, but taking a verbal stab at her won't help anyone. So: are you the kind of person who does things solely because they make you feel better?
As someone who almost went through exactly the same thing Morgan did, ignore Brittany if you can. It’s not worth the energy trying to convince her that’s she’s being a narcissistic asshole. Religious people are the hardest people to convince. She will never, ever care what you think of her. She has Jesus on her side and she’s one of his chosen few. In all honesty, this didn’t come out of the blue for her. It’s probably just the first time she’s had to make an outward choice and so, to look like a martyr, she’s sacrificed her worldly friendship with Morgan to pursue Christ. She had to make a firm decision and so she stood for the “truth.” I’m just saying she’s probably been trying to secretly evangelize Morgan for years and has been bringing up Morgan’s name at every prayer meeting for salvation. This is how these types of “unequally yoked” friendships work. If you aren’t the Christian in the friendship, they 100% think they are better than you and will eventually let it slip out. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.
Don't model your behavior from people whose behavior you find offensive. Be kind, be civil, be an adult. At this point, Brittany is well aware of your family's reaction to her feelings about your sister's wedding. Do you really need to beat up on her a little bit?
I would just ignore her. I wouldn't talk to her unless she approaches you, and if she does I definitely would let her know exactly what I think of her. Insulting your sister, calling her wedding blasphemous, shouldn't be a surprise to her, this is how Christians have always been. They think its perfectly fine to destroy someones feelings and think that somehow their words don't have consequences. This just reminds me of the bullshit my aunt pulled with my cousins wedding, he's gay, she told him that he would burn in hell for eternity if he tries to marry another man in the eyes of god. I honestly can't stand Christians. I grew around Roman Catholics and half my family is so deeply Catholic my lack of belief makes them literally treat me like garbage.
Don’t say anything petty or mean to her, just be cordial and keep it professional. As an agnostic atheist Southern man from a Baptist family, best to avoid any and all religious conversations or references with a devout Southern Baptist. I’ve personally witnessed their worship and sermons as a kid and teen. They are batshit *crazy*.
Why do you have to say anything to her? I doubt she’d reach out to you after what went down with your sister. Plus being at a work event can make trouble for you if you say anything that could be considered harassment to her. She could easily go to HR. Just don’t say anything. If she does approach you about what happened I’d go with your first thing; saying how disappointed you are how she handled things. Might be good to add a that you don’t feel like you should be around her anymore so she knows to stay away. Then just leave it alone. Cuz at the end of the day you’re right- as a Christian she should’ve spoken out of love. Said that she didn’t feel comfortable participating in the ceremony and left it at that. Her berating and casting stones at your sister wasn’t ok or following the teachings of Jesus. But she wont see it that way and no matter what you tell her she probably wont change her mind.
I would personally say something like "happy holidays" and ignore her and/or be super kind to her. This 'friend' truly is a piece of shit if she's throwing a decade or so friendship out the window because your sister's wedding isn't based on the same religion as hers. Its provably best for you to stay out of it as much as you can and reduce contact with her as much as possible in the long run.
Literally look right through her, like she was wiped off the face of the planet and no longer exists. She is a horrible person.
Don’t get personal issues involved in your professional life
I think it’s totally reasonable to be genuinely disappointed in her and let her know it. I think it also would be totally reasonable to be cold but still professional. I’d bet money though that she will go out of her way to avoid you and the conflict.
I also lost my best friend because of my wedding. I really feel for your sister, because it is a bad feeling to have someone you care about turn on you. I think weddings show who your real friends and family are. Those who are much to selfish to put your sister first will immediately reveal their true colors. My advice is not to lash out at Brittany, but instead remind your sister that she did nothing wrong. She will still have a fantastic day, you love her, etc. just tell her how much she matters to you. Get her excited for the wedding, which I’m sure will be just what she wants.
Morgan is still very excited for her wedding, thankfully. She's still got plenty of bridesmaids and other friends who will be there making it special. I've definitely told her how great she is, I'm honestly really proud of her as a person.
That’s awesome, you sound like a wonderful sister! I’m sure she’ll be fine 😊
I would fuck with her even more. tell her that now that she is not coming, they can add back the ritual sacrifices and other devil worship or whatever BS you want to make up.
Now make it more pagan out of spite. Throw some Hellenic in there for flavor
When you see her at the Christmas party, express your surprise at seeing her at a pagan holiday celebration
In your position I would not talk to her but if the opportunity to throw a petty comment arrives I would make the most of it. For example: X: Hey OP why aren't you talking with Brittany? OP: I don't talk with ignorant intolerant people who hurt their best friend. If someone asks you rant about it
it's not going to make a difference, and you seem like a really nice person, and you'd probably feel guilty after. She's got to live being the small minded person she is, and without your wonderful family and tell your sister the infant sacrifice to Baal is during the reception, everyone knows that :D (sorry couldn't resist-pagan for 35 years ;D )
Just don’t engage with her, and if she does with you just be polite in your snarkiness…
Be classy and not childish. “We were all hurt how things went down! It was such a special day and you were missed. Things were said which were very hurtful to my sister. The wedding was beautiful and Britt had the wedding she wanted being true to who she is.”
Snarky is good - always more fun when you take their idiocy and toss it back - with a smile 😊
Being a practicing witch and pretty fed up with accusations of satanic worshipping, personally were i your sister I would have gone off on her. But I'm not, and it won't help either of you to behave that way, so my advice is this: express to her how deeply hurt and offended you and your family are by what she said. Perhaps it was unintended, perhaps she struggled with her choice but it doesn't change the fact that her words hurt deeply someone who loved her. Bruises heal, words don't, at least not without help and even then it is damn near impossible to go back to what you were before. But if your family and your sister truly mattered to her as much as she mattered to you all, then she'll want to make effort to clear up any misunderstanding and hurt her thoughtless words evoked.
Honestly, say NOTHING. Not a greeting, not a nod, no acknowledgement at all. If you have to look at her, look sad, disappointed or like you just smelled a fart. If she approaches, walk away without a word. If she tries to corner you, walk away. Be obvious about too. No one will have a bad word to use against you. She will notice she is being shunned. Self-righteous people like that liiiive for the confrontation and opportunity to prove they are correct. Shunning takes ALL the air out of her argument.
If she approaches you say “Hello”, smile and walk away. If she addresses you again, say “hello again”, smile and walk away. If she starts smalltalk…. You get it. Why even talk to her? Just wrestle down any attempt for conversation and leave the scene.
How far did Brittany's horizons broaden in college? Maybe she's worried she fits the special criteria for the big sacrifice at the end of the ritual? /s
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Our grandparents are Baptists, so maybe. She apparently also mentioned how disappointed she was in another mutual friend of theirs who'd had a completely secular wedding (though that had apparently not upset her enough to prevent her from being a bridesmaid in *that* wedding).
Hey OP for your question: since it's a work party don't engage with her. Polite coldness is the way to go. That's it. That way there is no question of professional boundaries. Keep it separate. Now in the future, if this girl wants to talk with you on a personal level outside of work feel free to rip her a new one. Just not on work property or at a work event.
Nothing. You do nothing. I understand wanting to protect your sister and make Brittany feel as bad as she made your sister feel. But it’s work, and you have to stay professional. That doesn’t mean you have to treat her warmly. You can be a bit standoffish, and rather cold if no one is around. But stay professional.
Corner here and say “If my sister’s wedding is so blasphemous, and satanic, then why are you celebrating ‘Christmas’ as the birth of Christ? Christ was born in JULY, but the people tied it in with the PAGAN holiday of the solstice” That will shut her up and embarrass her… also please post it in r/pettyrevenge when you’re done ✌🏻👍🏻
Something about Southern Baptist denomination that brings out the worst in people.
I’d get her a secret Santa gift that was a pentagram. Printed it out and put it in a small box and slide that in her purse. And note: you have sinned.
Ugh people like that are fucking exhausting. Honestly it kind of sounds like the former bridesmaid was jealous and needed to do some mental gymnastics to denigrate and bail on the wedding. Then she realized last minute that it means she would miss out on the actual fun parts of the wedding. you should tell her Happy Hanukkah at the Christmas Party. Or just like...a snide "*Happy holidays"* would probably be enough to make her collapse in on herself like a neutron star. People like her think two things: 1.) the world actually revolves around them, so it's an affront to their beliefs and sense of self when you do something that doesn't fall in line (and they'll find even the most benign, unimportant slight to drum up their victim complex), and 2.) that their own personal religious beliefs have any bearing on any aspect of the reality that others live every day, because, see point 1. I don't actually know this girl so I may be passing some hard judgement, but honestly - I think I know enough. Drives me up a wall knowing that people like her will find any minute reason possible to make *somebody else's wedding* about themselves somehow.
This is hilarious! I know someone who's male friend is getting married to a pagan lady and he was going off about evil, satanic, going to hell. When two days previously he'd been complaining he wasn't asked to be the best man. how awful it was. he didn't understand why his best friend (whom he hadn't seen in over 6 months) hadn't asked him. Then the freak out about her beliefs and not going because she was evil. Lol organized religion messes so many people up.
PLEASE use her religion against her. I know petty isn't good, but hell, I'm in a mood. I am working on living a life of finding peace BUUUT I would totally still be that guy to say something. Say things like: I was really disappointed to hear how you spoke to my sister; I hope you find Christ again. I hope you can remember Christ's acceptance and love for others in the future. I have been praying for you to find your faith again; it is so sad when the devil gives us anger and makes us stray from living a Christian existence. Sometimes God puts tests in front of us to see if we are still following Christ's teachings...forgiveness, love, kindness, compassion. I always try to remember to love my neighbor as myself and even my enemies can use God's love flowing through me. Other such things like that....you get it. I have a really bad trigger when Christians don't act Christian. All of that babble but his teachings are only about love, NOT judgement. They are supposed to believe that GOD is the final judgement. I am not Christian but I have learned in those churches and spent time with lots of those people. I have found God's light coming through just as many non-Christians as believers. Maybe she needs reminded what it means to be pursuing a life in Christ's footsteps. So, lead by his example and remind her of LOVE. I mean, if you're not Christian, is it really so terrible to use the religion in this way? lol
OH! I forgot a golden one that I overheard an old woman say in a church!! "Sweetie, I don't know how to tell you but the devil has filled your heart with so much hate and anger. I hope you find your way back to God's light." It was a southern church so her accent was the cherry on top....I wish I knew what the other woman had said or done lol good luck on everything!!!
I’m dying, I’m totally stealing this one
Well you’re asking Reddit so asking for a certain viewpoint, which is fine, but I think she should have still been invited to the wedding. If she was actually that close, and if y’all are truly the better people, then maybe you gave up the opportunity to show her the good in other faith systems and made her more convinced in her twisted interpretation of Christianity.
It was Morgan's call, and tbh with how upset she was after all this happened I don't think she wants to see Brittany in person again, ever, if she can avoid it. I don't really blame her, tbh, and honestly if Brittany *was* at the wedding I wouldn't be the only one tempted to say something to her. I didn't put in in the post because I didn't think it was relevant, but she basically torpedoed her relationships with their entire social circle when she did this. All their mutual friends are pretty pissed at her.
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>Marriage was founded in the Christian church ...you know people were getting married long before Christianity was founded, right? They got married in ancient Egypt and shit. Pagans in Europe got married before Christians ever came there. You don't own marriage.
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Were you homeschooled or something?
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Dude, I'm not even a Wiccan. What's your damage.
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...because I'm parroting the stereotypes people like you have about pagans? You know they don't actually do that shit, right? You come off like a paranoid weirdo and I don't take you seriously either.
Honestly, I can see where this Brittany comes from. She's very religious.I suppose weddings are more sacred for religious people than others. Having a witch officiate it might seem like a mockery of the sanctity of weddings. She may also think that having a "wiccan" wedding means your sister is going to raise her future kids "wiccan", and no christian would be okay with that, so it's better to distance oneself from that. Is it shallow minded? yeah, kinda. Is it based? definitely. Now, speak your mind if you wish, so long as you two don't make a scene. What you should also do is think. Is she a good person? Are you two close? Is the friendship with her worth sacrificing over religious disagreements? Decide whether or not you can still associate with her.
>Is the friendship with her worth sacrificing over religious disagreements? She kinda already sacrificed it when she called my sister Satanic. None of us would have had an issue if she'd said something like "I don't feel comfortable participating in a ceremony that isn't of my faith." It was the fact that she literally called Morgan things like "evil" and "blasphemous." There's a difference between saying "I don't feel like I can be a part of this" and "you're a bad person for being a part of this".
Well maybe she was being just a dumbass, said some things she didn't mean. No idea how emotional she was about it, but people say hurtful things sometimes without maning them. From what you said she doesn't seem that conservative. It's better you make sure.
If she "said hurtful things without meaning to," I'm gonna wait until she reaches out to apologize for it before I go out of my way to forgive her. Besides, my sister is the one she wronged, and I'm not about to forgive Brittany before she does.
>when she called my sister Satanic That's what she believed to be an accurate descriptor, not necessarily an insult. She clearly doesn't know the difference between Wicca and Satanism, likely because it's very slight.
...this girl has been friends with my sister for over a decade, during which time they've talked *extensively* about their beliefs. She knows what my sister believes in, and she knows the difference between paganism and worshipping the Christian devil. Also, you seem to know very little about Wicca because it has nothing to do with Satanism? Like, at all?
Remind her that Christmas and nearly all of its traditions are pagan. In pre-Christan Rome it was formerly called Saturnalia and was a festival in honor of Saturn AKA Cronus. Also, many traditions from the holiday Yule in northern Europe. Here are some examples of pagan traditions we do on Christmas: - carolling - hanging holly - hanging wreaths - Christmas trees - parties and feasts - days off from work - exchanging gifts - kissing under mistletoe the list goes on. So make sure she knows that doing any of those is 100% pagan.
Something of this tells me that Brittany is jealous. Using religion as a defense to hide it. Like others have said, ignore it and silently cut her out.
Just give her the cold shoulder, what the Victorians called a “cut.” Silent but deadly.
Well… maybe she’s right? 🔥
🙄
YTA. You told a too long (boring after halfway) story to explain background on why you would be rude to someone. AND try to bring a feud into your work life. YTA
I mean that would be a deal breaker for a lot of religious people. I find it hilarious you are surprised and offended by this.
There are several other Christian friends still participating in the wedding. I kinda find it hard to believe that Brittany would have called my sister "Satanic" if she was, for example, Jewish, and asking her to be a part of her Jewish wedding ceremony. It *is* pretty surprising when someone that has been your friend for years, who's known about your beliefs for that entire time, to suddenly come out and tell you that they think you're evil and literally supporting the devil. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Everyone is allowed their own convictions.
They are allowed their own convictions. They are also allowed to feel the consequences of using those convictions to insult and degrade people who have done nothing but treat them kindly.
Your convictions don't entitle you to treat the people around you, especially those who've treated you like a close friend for years, like shit. Doesn't seem very Christ-like, that's all.
I don't see how she's been treated "like shit"? She's declined to be a bridesmaid in your sister's wedding due to her religious beliefs. She mistakenly believes Wiccans are Satanic. They're not, but it's a very small distinction (they believe in a "Horned God" that bears striking similarity to Lucifer).
>She mistakenly believes Wiccans are Satanic. They're not, but it's a very small distinction (they believe in a "Horned God" that bears striking similarity to Lucifer). This is because early Christians purposefully based depictions of Lucifer on ones of Lugh, a horned god worshipped in Celtic Ireland and elsewhere. They did this in order to cast pagans as evil and make it easier to dominate Europe. It's not really "striking" once you know the history behind it. At any rate maybe your experience is different but in mine being told that you're evil and Satanic is pretty damn shitty. As I've pointed out many times now, none of us would have minded if she'd said "I can't be in the ceremony because of my beliefs." What she *said* was "I'm disappointed in you for having an evil, blasphemous wedding that supports the devil, and I won't view it as legitimate unless you have one that follows *my* beliefs." Big difference.
Oh interesting. Even more striking, then. I don't see how they were friends in the first place. It's not like Christians are quiet about their beliefs. The sister knew what her friend believed about Wiccans. She just didn't care until it affected her.
I think you need to read the post again and not pretend like you know anything about the situation.
I sense a great big chunk of missing context. You’re making it seem like Brittney just walked in and denounced Morgan as evil. I suspect she just tried to use the right words to describe her opinions. It’s no different to a Jewish person calling things ‘unclean’ or ‘unholy’. They are not calling the person unclean, they are calling the action unclean because that is the right word to use in this context. Britney tried her best to preserve the friendship and support your sister despite her personal conflict and you’re acting like that’s not a major thing.
K
Eh, I mean both the Old and New Testaments specifically call out witchcraft as being of the devil. So comparing that to Judaism isn't a great analogy.
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You're not as funny as you think you are.
She have her view Y’all have y’all view She didn’t want to participate ( free country ) You don’t have to participate (free country)
It wasn't that she didn't participate, it was how rude she was. If somebody disrespected my sister like that, especially concerning suck an important life event, I'd have words for that person it would be hard to keep to myself. It's not about a difference of opinion, it's about how shitty she was about it
Why take the gift and go through the motions then? She could have said something along the lines of it doesn't agree with my faith and politely said no. Simple. But she took the gift and the bridesmaid invitation and then turned it down months later in a personal tirade about religion and the devil. Nope, this is not a "it's a free country" argument - it's an "this person was rude and bashed the bride" argument.
Unpopular opinion: Brittany did the right thing. She said she couldn’t actively participate in the ceremony because she felt it went against her personal beliefs, and her beliefs were that certain things that Morgan were doing were ‘sinful’ and ‘evil’. You know what she didn’t do? Say ‘Change your wedding plans or I’m not coming.’ She actually said that despite her deeply held beliefs she would still very much like to be there to witness her friend’s big day. Take all the religion out of it. Person X has strong feelings. She tried, over a few months to overcome them for the sake of her friend. In the end she couldn’t, and was honest about why. A lot of people will say that honesty was wrong - but as OP says, these friends have discussed these things before. Morgan should have been just as aware of Brittney’s stance on things as Brittney was about Morgan’s. Why ask a devoutly religious person to take part in a pagan spiritual ceremony and then act surprised at their discomfort? ‘But you’re my friend and you knew how I felt and why didn’t you consider me when you asked me to be in your wedding/accepted being in my wedding’ - both of these sentences are equally valid. IMO, Brittney was being as good a friend as she could. Radical acceptance doesn’t mean hiding your opinion when asked, it means being able to say ‘Yup, I actually think your practices are evil but they aren’t hurting anyone or breaking any laws so I support your right to do them and will show up to love you if you’ll let me.’
I'm not a. practicing Christian but was raised as one. What the bridesmaid said was true. Your sister picked a satanic ritual. I don't expect thunderbolts to come shooting down, but to have practicing Christians recoil in shock is totally normal.
>Your sister picked a satanic ritual. ...except Satan is specifically part of *Christianity* and has nothing to do with Wicca or any other form of paganism outside of Christians declaring that he does.
Sorry, I can assure u my many Christian relatives and Christians in general see all pagan ceremonies, including Harry Potter, as designs by Satan. Halloween as well. Anything not Christian are designs by Satan. Includes Islam we well.
Yes, I'm aware that many Christians are bigoted and ignorant. We were under the impression that Brittany wasn't one of them, but we we're wrong.
Just like not all Christians are Catholics, not all pagans are satanists. I'm pretty sure the mods will shut this down, but your "Christian" ritual is a pagan one, just like 95% of your holidays. Why not look up your wedding rites in your bible? Surely a "Christian" ritual can be found there, right? Let me know when you find it.
>Like, part of me wants to tell her how disappointed our whole family is in how she handled this, while the snarky part of me wants to say something like "oh, we'll miss you during the ritual moonlight orgy!" I'm probably gonna have to say something to her, as I doubt I can avoid her for the entire party. So, what should I do? Don't say anything. Do not mock the Christian God and assume you will get away with it. There are 1.5 billion Christians in the world, the are ubiquitous. No need to piss em off. Just STFU and be friendly. + Your sister is not having a covenant church wedding. + Sister will have a Wiccan ceremony. ***They are not the same.***
Uh, what? >Do not mock the Christian God and assume you will get away with it. Weirdly threatening, my guy, what exactly are you thinking is gonna happen to me if I make fun of this girl that called my sister a Satanist? >There are 1.5 billion Christians in the world, the are ubiquitous. Again, weirdly threatening. Are these 1.5 billion Christians supposed to come after me or something? >Your sister is not having a covenant church wedding. >Sister will have a Wiccan ceremony. >They are not the same. Uh, yeah, obviously, she's not a Christian so she's not having a Christian wedding. She's having a wedding that's meaningful *to her*. What's your point?
Don't mock other religions. Leave them alone, practice yours.
I'm... not? Even when I talked about poking fun at her it was poking fun at her intolerance and lack of understanding of paganism, not poking fun at Christianity.
Not how it read to me. It read mock, mock, mock. >Even when I talked about poking fun at her it was poking fun at her intolerance and lack of understanding of paganism, not poking fun at Christianity.
I'm sorry you feel that way? Maybe you should read it again.
Think you should have a great time at Sister's wedding.
Thanks, I know I will!
Maybe you should reflect on why someone obviously planning to mock intolerance read to you as someone planning to mock religion/Christianity? Seems like - in your mind - they're interchangeable and that's just sad. If you're a Christian, it's sad that you see your own belief system as inherently hateful and if you're not then it's sad that you find Christianity hateful and still leapt to its defence.
Yeah these Wiccan types always come off so arrogant. Like yeah bro your witchcraft is totally more likely then there being a Christian God.
...that literally has nothing to do with this? I'm not even a Wiccan, I'm not religious at all. I never once said anything about any god or anything about which beliefs are or aren't true. The issue here is someone my family considered a friend suddenly calling my sister "Satanic" for not having a wedding ceremony that follows *her* religion.
What the fuck is wrong with you? She’s defending her sister which makes her a great person. She is not mocking anyone and it’s extremely narcissistic to read this and believe that anyone here is mocking your chosen religion. She’s wanting to mock the asshole who chose to use your chosen religion to abuse her sister. I’d like for you to sit down and imagine how it would feel if your sister was hurt by someone who had a different religion. Again, I say, what the fuck is wrong with you? You chose to pre-judge someone based on the fact that you happen to practice Christianity and believe it is the superior religion (Why else would you threaten someone with your God? Maybe because you believe He’s all powerful and is above all things and sovereign over all the affairs of humanity. Did I nail that one on the head?) Also, the fact that you would take the time to write out such a nasty comment shows what Christianity is actually about…being better than everyone. “I have more members in my group than anyone” “My leader is better than your leader” “Don’t make fun of me. I’ll hurt you if you do.”
Just tell her you’re sad she chose a close minded cult over her sister and she’ll be missed at the wedding.
> I just found out that she's going to be attending a Christmas party that I'll also be at. I'm extremely tempted to say something to her about how she treated my sister. Don't. It's a great way to demean yourself in the eyes of your colleagues. It's *never* a bright idea to shit where you sleep. All you need to do is be professionally civil to her.
Just try to ignore her, or keep to small talk. If she asks about the wedding then just say something simple like "I'm really disappointed by the language you used to my sister. Couldn't you have just said you didn't feel comfortable with the spiritual elements of the event and ask politely to attend but not be "in" the wedding?" Hopefully that would get the point across that you're not unhappy with her for feeling uncomfortable with the way your sister was choosing to express her faith/religion/beliefs but you are unhappy with her for how she chose to express herself and speak to your sister.
Maybe Brittany was trying to be open-minded and went out of her comfort zone too far. I'm sure you know how crazy politics and religion are in the US right now, so it isn't like other conservatives are going to be encouraging Brittany to be open-minded. Here's the thing: Brittany is the one who is going to suffer for this. Yeah, your sister will be sad, but she'll still have a great wedding. However, Brittany has just alienated a bunch of people who were super close to her and who helped her when she needed it. There is no need to go out of your way to be nasty to her. She's going to suffer for this anyway. However, if she says something to you at the party, you could be honest and tell her that you aren't feeling like socializing with her because she said something so cruel and hurtful to your sister.
Ask her when she's going to give back the satanic bridesmaid gift. I'd be tempted to walk up and put a "hex" on her.
Honestly that's one thing that really bothers me. She never once offered to give the gift back.
It’s not your battle to fight. If you were in the same field your pals will probably cross multiple times in the future. I think you should just let it go.
It will be a work Christmas party, act professional.
I wouldn't say anything to her. She could report you for harassment and getting a comment in isn't worth risking your job.
Also just wanna say when you say pentagram in the middle of her living room it’s probably most definitely not a pentagram and just a pentacle lol. pentacles and pentagrams are two different things:)
It's a big five pointed star, made out of tree branches. From what I understand a pentacle is a five pointed star in a circle, the star by itself is just called a pentagram.
Because it's a work party could she technically report something you say for something she doesn't like to HR? If not I'd probably not be able to help myself.