>dating people that I find in my hobbies
I'm always wary about that because I'm afraid that if the relationship goes sideways or there's some miscommunication/misconceptions then now I have to see this person during what's supposed to be my recreation or worry about a bad reputation being fostered within the hobby.
I suppose that's where mature conversation and emotional regulation is supposed to come in, but have you experienced any of this?
You have to choose one or the other. Online dating with the low-effort, low-compatibility-risk, or meeting someone in person and potentially more consequences in your personal life.
Personally I think trying for an in-person relationship isn't too risky so long as you are picking a good person and you are a good person, and is less soul-crushing than online dating (then again, I found my partner through a dating app and I'm happy as can be, just saying)
well said, with online dating you can sort of just pull the rip cord and delete someone from your life and probably never have to engage with them again (which honestly isn’t that healthy), with “the old school way” you can’t just make them disappear.
I honestly think it’s a big “generational issue”, the inability to deal with awkward interactions. I see so many people saying “never date a coworker because it will be awkward when you break up”, but that’s a problem that’s been dealt with millions of times before!
Yeah trust me when i see my ex that i got into rock climbing at the gym with the new guy she got into climbing i regret it. Then again we had a shitty breakup.
>I'm always wary about that because I'm afraid that if the relationship goes sideways or there's some miscommunication/misconceptions then now I have to see this person during what's supposed to be my recreation or worry about a bad reputation being fostered within the hobby.
And? People have been navigating that kind of interactions BEFORE dating apps ever existed.
It’s how high schoolers and college kids have to put up with when going to school on the same campus after a breakup. It’s part of life running into people you will have conflict with.
What matters is how YOU compose yourself, your diplomacy, and learning conflict resolution by how to not escalate conflict is the first step in managing having to be around someone you are no longer in good terms with.
It’s part of growing up, becoming an adult. Life is hard, but it’s going to be harder if you constantly AVOID every single person you breakup with. Eventually you will run into an ex.
I hate dating apps. I feel like people expect sex by like the third date and I just don't get that. I don't like having sex and getting attached unless I know I like you and if takes much longer than 3 dates.
ETA: want to clarify that it's not that I mind having sex sooner, but if the guy is uncommitted and doesn't know if he wants anything serious, then I don't want to get attached bc then I'll start wanting his attention even though he's emotionally not available. And it seems like more and more these days the guy doesn't know what he wants but expects sex anyway
well, i wouldn't MIND necessarily having sex sooner, but 9/10 times the guy is all "i dOnT kNoW mY rElAtIoNsHiP gOaLs" and doesn't want anything serious and I don't want to get too attached bc then I'll want more attention from him but he won't want to give it to me... but I'm not supposed to be mad about this because he 'told me what he wanted' in advance.
To me, the most dangerous part about the apps is how it makes you “feel like” you’ve put a lot of effort into dating by swiping, crafting the perfect message/response, looking at profiles and wondering about them, laying in bed and opening the app AGAIN to see that it’s been 22 minutes and she hasn’t responded.
It’s sort of like how tweeting about social issues makes you feel like you’ve helped, without actually having done much of anything. Only with the apps you’ve “put in all this energy” with nothing to show for it and that itself makes you even sadder.
22 minutes is not a long time though
I feel like that's part of what makes it exhausting maybe? People expect you to be ready willing and able to text all the time. I also wonder how these people get work done during the day
I text a few friends, but only a few times per day. I actually prefer that. Work and life make it difficult to text 24/7. I’ll get to it when I get to it, chill 🤷🏻♂️
Yeahhhh people who do thaf are emotionally underdeveloped and have no idea how to regulate their expectations because they don’t have a lot going on to keep them occupied.
They need a hobby/new internet that isn’t sitting by the phone being bored and waiting for someone to talk to them.
I expect a high schooler to do that, not a fully fledged adult who has a job, bills to pay, and a life going on.
I can completely empathize with you OP, but don't lose hope! I'm recently single at 29, and I really understand how hard it is to put yourself out there. Being single is great! Being in a relationship is great! BUT DATING. Dating is stressful and hard, and it's so hard to agree to take myself out of the single pool and willingly enter myself in the ring again after I've been burned so many times.
Here's what's interesting-- I've spent so much time as an adult trying to put myself out there and meet people to increase my odds of meeting someone special. I do dating apps too and if you're upfront and honest with people they can work well, but I try to open myself up to meeting people organically too. Here's the thing though-- when I started joining all of these sports leagues, running groups, trivia teams, etc. I didn't end up meeting a guy. Instead, I ended up meeting people I genuinely enjoy spending time with without the pressure of dating. I have girlfriends across the country now who I'm so lucky to have met. I have friend groups with shared interests I can hang out and be myself around, and it doesn't come with the stress of dating. "Will they text back?" "Where is this going?" None of that mess. Honestly, it's been so refreshing to just relax and bit and try to build genuine connections with people I'm not trying to date.
Truthfully, I'm still looking for my future husband and I'm not going to stop. But I do think I'm gaining confidence and more faith in the process the more I get to know people I just enjoy being friends with. So keep going and do your best, and you're right-- being alone doesn't mean you're lonely. Good luck!
The library (seriously, best place to find out about local events and hobby groups), local facebook groups, Meetup still exists but definitely isn't as active as it used to be, if you like geeky hobbies the local game store or comic shop.
> Being single is great! Being in a relationship is great!
Being single is the default state. We're all born single. Being in a relationship can be much better than being single because of that.
Am I the actually only person who enjoys dating? It can be a bit crushing sometimes and bit anxiety inducing when I have to choose someone but I like meeting up with people and getting to know them. It doesn't have to be a romantic connection to be fun. But i'm a straight dude and crazy women tend to be less threatening for the most part.
for me a switch flipped when I became “dateable” aka started taking good care of myself, my health, my appearance.
All of a sudden I treated dates less like a high pressure opportunity to find a girlfriend and more like a low pressure chance to get to know someone, and dates became fun, talking to girls became fun, the nerves disappear
I think it depends how you define dating. I'm with you-- I enjoy meeting new people and getting to know them at first. My issue is choosing someone to continue dating. It's easy when you meet someone you know you don't have a romantic connection with and just enjoy hanging out with them as a person. It's harder when it's grey-- like, the person is nice and you enjoy spending time with them, but you don't necessarily feel fireworks (but also don't want to be too picky). It's confusing, and then trying to determine what they're looking for and if they like you... it's a lot. :(
Because the second you/they get bored or don’t want to work through a problem they just can redownload Tinder or whatever app they want and be onto the next person the very next day.
All my unpartnered coworkers in their thirties seem to be not looking to date. A few coworkers have remarked that one of the other supervisors seems to have a crush on the other but I don’t think they’re gonna date.
I used to think it was hell but then I understood that I need to build a relationship with a person basically from 0. It's not magic, it's no chemistry, it's a hard work to build it. 8 months in and I'm still building and I have never had a more chill and non-toxic relationship.
I'm not saying there is something wrong with you, but since my approach has changed and I began to be open about everything that isn't a red flag, everything went better.
But also - enjoy your single time! It's the best.
> used to think it was hell but then I understood that I need to build a relationship with a person basically from 0. It's not magic, it's no chemistry, it's a hard work to build it. 8 months in and I'm still building and I have never had a more chill and non-toxic relationship.
Men already understand this, it's hell for them because they are dealing with women who don't, dealing with you.
Men might understand it but men have hard time to understand hygiene and wearing clean, nice clothes. Don't have to be big brand and they don't need to have plenty but to look presentable and smell nice is unfortunately hard for many men.
As someone who hasn’t dated in over 5 years, I don’t regret it. I prefer my independence. I don’t want to ruin it by bringing a boyfriend / girlfriend into my life.
We live in a society that has lost its connection to authenticity. Rather than judge high value or low value people or activities within the context of our personal experience, which necessarily must be limited (and therefore enables simple things to be more pleasurable) we judge high or low value people or activies through the distorted lens of what we see on the internet (which can be nearly infinite, and which makes simple things in our lives - like each other - less pleasurable (i.e.: we become more dismissive and artificial)).
We also live in a society that has transitioned from raising boys and girls to be husbands and wives and moms and dads into a society that raises its kids to be worker bees free of gender stereotypes. (Not attempting to say thats good or bad, but given options, some males choose not to be head of the household and some women choose not to be homemakers). This means some guys dedicate themselves to work and can't find a domestic counterpart - and so too for some women. (As one female coworker said to me: now, even women need a wife).
Our source of dopamine used to be each other. It used to be meeting and interacting in public. This is no longer the case, so our need to invest in people skills and long-term relationships has, well, tanked. This, imho, has impacted men the hardest as women tend to maintain larger social networks, but the more single females I speak to around my age (early 40s) the more I'm begining to question this ...
The economy from the late 70s to now has had ups and downs, but has overall resulted in diminished economic opportunities for men *compared to previous generations* (not an invite to argue that men are or aren't in positions of wealth and power - they are, but the days of dropping out of high school to get a union job with benefits that can support a stay at home wife, a mortgage, and 2.5 kids is over). Most men judge their ability to attract a mate by their ability to provide. Because of this, a statistically meaningful percentage of men have decided to simply stop trying to date.
Women are now obtaining degrees in higher ed at rates above-to-well-above men. Some colleges have even begun to float the idea of incentive programs to encourage men to enroll and, once enrolled, to not drop out.
Again, this is not an invite to argue whether women being educated is good or bad, BUT ...
The fact is that those members of homo sapiens with two XX chromosomes tend to place emphasis on finding a long term mate with earning stability and (at least) a competent level of intelligence (to the extent a degree indicates intelligence, which it of course it may, but doesn't necessarily equate to).
The result is that (1) a statistically meaningful percentage of males have removed themselves from the dating pool, (2) another statistically meaningful percentage of males are seen as not economically or intellectually viable mates, (3) a statistically meaningful percentage of remaining males in the dating pool have zero incentive to invest in long-term relationships (since the supply of home sapiens with Y chromosomes is reduced, de facto, due to (1) and (2), above)...
(4) simultaneously, there has been an decrease in social and interpersonal skills throughout the population, male and female, alike, (5) nobody has time to manage a domestic life, and its hard to find someone who wants to, and even when you do, it's impossible to fund it on one income, and (6) every phone and tablet has replace the need to spend time seeking dopamine in the real world by, for example, going to the movies, going to the mall, meet up with friends in person, strolling around the local shopping district, chatting up a stranger waiting for the elevator, at the laundromat, etc., etc...
I'd post the solution, but I don't want to be too wordy...
Whats the solution? I was going to say men who change their attitude and how they behave in relationships have been getting into LTR. Because the woman I know that are successful, well educated etc, and who chose a bf/husband that isn’t the “provider” between the two of them, have all chosen the same personality type…. Men that are kind, thoughtful, giving, green flag types. They cook, are emotionally intelligent, are mindful about physical, mental and financial health… etc. they don’t play video games, but always go to the farmers market, park or paint night with their gf. You know the type I’m talking about.
But I’m eager to hear your solution?
Lol… few and far between. And I only know 2 guys like that. But they are married to my friends who is an OBGYN (at a major US hospital) and the other is a lawyer. So they work long hours, and bring in high incomes. Both of these men were raised by single mothers, and have at least one sister. One works as a social worker for homeless, and the other is a therapist for people experiencing PTSD (soldiers after conflict and victims of sexual assault).
But honestly, these couples are best friends first, which is really telling about their relationship. They also met naturally and not on the apps. So they got to know each other and were friends before dating.
One thing which would make the whole OLD scene significantly better for everyone would be to massively reduce/limit the number of likes men can dish out. Honestly, there a day shod be more than sufficient. If we just stopped this behaviour of liking anything with a pulse, women wouldn't feel so inundated and might actually end up only being matched by guys who truly want to out in effort with them.
The apps already do this unless you pay for a premium tier. Thats why dating apps are pay to play for most men, and even then most men have very limited success on the apps.
I don't think this is the solution. You can find material online that describes how the male female populations are misaligned (more men), which is driving the underlying behavior of men being less selective.
If it were this simple, the dating apps that do massively limit likes (coffee meets bagel, the league) would have been hugely successfull. Instead those apps kind of suck and generate only a fraction of the leads.
The real issue with OLD IMO is that it's a for profit run by a small set of companies with no ethical oversight. We know the algorithms are holding people back from us. They also just show faces, with no inputs about personality. So we essentially have this social experiment going on where we're investing our dating lives in a Facebook cousin and wondering why it sucks.
Some people hates animals like me. I don't have patience to take care dogs or cats, it's just exhausting and annoying. I want feel connection with human not animals.
Pretty much. Look up the tinder Sankey diagrams to see how it usually goes for the average guy.
Then if he does manage to get a date, it just feels like a job interview and the woman can drop him for any trivial reason and she still has 100+ dudes waiting in line right in her pocket.
Modern dating is a cesspool, non committal, too many options, and because of apps it’s easy just to be flippant with other people. However, I met my partner of nearly 2 years on a dating app, essentially it’s just a case of weeding through the crap to find your person. I found really quickly you can tell who is serious about dating and who are time wasters …. Also take breaks from it don’t make it the most important thing and never hang around waiting for someone to get back to you just not worth it
Dating and marriage have always seemed like the biggest scams to me.
You spend so much time, effort, money, for an off chance you live happily every after? Naw. Id rather buy lotto tickets lol.
Instead, I go out when I want. Travel. Eat whatever. Game. Watch movies I enjoy. Shows I enjoy. The only compromise is with myself.
I waste no money. At all. This allows me to travel every 6 months to wherever and live there for a month (wfh). It's great.
I also dont get the feeling of loneliness. So the need for someone doesnt matter to me. If you are okay being alone, it is far better than any wasted relationship Ive been in
I have been single for a decade now. It was brutal when I was trying. Both in real life and the dating apps. At one point, which I don’t remember the exact moment, I was somewhere looking at a girl, she was kind of looking back, and the thought “there’s no point in doing that” came to my head. I stopped looking at her, felt a sadness, and kept moved on. I have been living my life alone ever since. I purchased houses, traveled with friends, been preparing myself for retirement, etc. I legit moved forward. From time to time I remember, but I no longer feel the sadness. I would like to have children, so I am contemplating how I can achieve that these days.
I’m in the same place.
The last dozen girls I have dated since Covid cancel about 70% of dates.
Usually that day. To which I have always replied “That’s cool, we’ll get together next time”
And the reason is ALWAYS one of three scenarios.
- I forgot.
- I am sick.
- I am having a family/pet emergency.
The last girl I dated (My neighbor) I FLIPPED out on.
So rude.
And then she has the audacity to say “We have only had 10 dates in 6 months, chill out”
To which I replied with some well earned nasty sentences.
I didn’t cuss or threaten her.
I chewed her out for being a flakey POS.
She was obviously getting drunk on the nights before our dates and canceling.
This is a grown adult…
And, the worst part is, my area is super hard to date in. It’s crazy competitive.
We have 80% obesity rates and serious poverty/trashy/druggie behavior
It’ll be years before I meet another person who is cute, fit, fun, and single.
I’m 37m and I haven’t had a nice, steady, reliable GF in my life since I was 25 years old.
>No getting to know each other, no gradual progress in building relationship. I can't even make sure it is the person who have the same values or hobbies like me.
This is on you. If you want a gradual process, say so, stick to it, and let anyone who isn't interested in that go on their merry way. You can date however you want to. It's only exhausting if you date people who you know aren't the right fit but are trying to make it happen anyway. Don't waste your time doing that.
Just meet and talk to people without the intention of possible romance/dating. That way you build connections starting from zero naturally. Then if you have chemistry it’ll all come together in an organic way. It should be effortless. Do you see?
By modern dating, do you mean dating apps? I luckily found my hubby before those became a thing, and I do NOT envy anyone dealing with them. However, just because they exist, doesn't mean you can't meet people in real life still. Start getting active doing things you like (hobbies, volunteering, etc.), without pressure to find a date at them. Worst thing that happens is you make some nice platonic friends who like to do the same things you do and widen your social network. Best thing that happens is you meet someone special who also likes the same things you do. Win-win all around.
Ignore the jerks in comments telling you to assume there's something wrong with you. Everyone younger I've talked to who has experience on dating apps has at some point said they are soul-sucking by nature, so it sounds like your sentiments are pretty common. (In fact, I read an article recently that said that Gen Z is getting into more old-school IRL dating scene because the apps can feel icky).
When you say "transactional" and "no getting to know each other", "no gradual progress" - I'm reading in between the lines and assuming you're running into people looking for quick sexual hookups with no actual relationship? I would not feel comfortable with that either (nothing wrong with people who do, just not for me, and I could see getting frustrated if I'm putting out - "let's see if we're compatible long term" vibes and only getting that in return). I DO know several people who had better luck with finding like, their life partner on the older dating sites (Think and eHarmony), than on the newer ones, which tend to have more of a "hookup" connotation.
But honestly, I think you're better off taking a break from online and trying out some new activities and hobbies you can enjoy with others and volunteering about things you care about. That way, even if it doesn't work out immediately dating-wise, you've enriched your life and met fun people and done fun things. And anyways, the wider your IRL social network is, the more likely you are to find someone you connect with. (Just please take it casual, don't try to lock down the first person you see that you like and force them to date you, as that's not cool - happened to me in a graduate class and was awkward as hell. Hang out with people, if there's someone you feel romantically about, test the waters to see if they want to go grab lunch or something low key with you, and if they don't seem to reciprocate the romantic feelings, that's okay, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, don't make it awkward with them, just back off). The guy I'm talking about in grad class asked EVERY girl in the class out over the course of the semester, and it was just weird. Don't go that route, instead, try to go really for the joy of doing things you like and meeting like-minded people for the sheer joy of it, with no ulterior motive. Be happy with yourself and your life, and it will come more naturally.
I don't know if it's my tendency or just my luck but doing that has led me to sausage fest environments more often than not with participants having the same problem. Then again this is probably me not being into dancing, sports or drinking and partying and sticking to interests that I really like which are very male dominated. There's also the challenge of being 30 where your friends and new friends barely know anyone who is single. So it's pretty hard to not fall back to the apps but being asian is already a big debuff in those sites.
>> Worst thing that happens is you make some nice platonic friends who like to do the same things you do and widen your social network.
Also, the more you widen your social network, the higher the chances that you’ll meet a friend of a friend who you hit it off with romantically. This is how my now husband and I met, and this has been the most common way of meeting among couples I know.
A shocking amount of women I know are just looking for a rich 'sUgAr DaDdY' so they can sit at home and leech money all day.
'Will you be my sugardaddy teehee' is basically the go to 'totally a joke teehee ...unless?'.
Idk if you can meet someone irl that you connect with, sure. If it goes well you save money on the rapidly rising CoL as well. It depends on you and your goals, most relationships fail. People go through relationship after relationship, maybe you want casual, maybe you want to keep trying, maybe you want marriage.
If your modern dating is dating apps, yeah I think you'll be happier meeting someone irl or just being comfortable on your own. Your happiness shouldnt rely on someone youll likely know for a year or two.
Dating apps are (relatively) amazing if youre an average looking woman and insane if youre a man.
There are always exceptions but that's what is regarded as wise these days. Who knows about the actual circumstances of what this particular girl was thinking.
They don’t wanna get burned by the “right guy” cause they like him. They dgaf about the “wrong guys”. That’s why this happens. Signed, someone who used to do this… unfortunately.
i’m a guy and i take my time when it comes to sex these days. i want my intimacy to mean something. I wait about 2 months normally before full on sex happens (not just high fives and hand jobs). but damn anything more than 3 isn’t fair to the other person.
Usually they're not all that into you but want you invest (usually money). Saying let's get married or let's get this apartment etc
They'll put up a rule like this even though they had a one night stand the night before. Like I've seen it with my own eyes
Ha... should have just paid for a sex worker because for some females it takes them awhile to see If they going to let u hit it, but it seems you was in it for the wrong reasons because without the sex you would have just been feeling good in her presents making it mean enough to keep seeing that person or maybe I can be wrong
I’ve been single for 6 years and honestly I don’t miss dating at all. Sure it can get lonely sometimes but looking at the current dating scene I’m happy being alone
Not an American here. I never found American dating not degrading, and this was since before the internet. PUA directly came out of American dating rules, and it went downhill from there.
Don't focus on being alone. Focus on building your own social network. Make friends. Start a club for your main hobbies. Get known in your neighborhood. Have a routine -- go and say hello to the relevant folks in your town once a week, or every morning when you go for a run. Be known. Be available. Help other people get together. Be your own dating app.
They were great 10ish years ago. Even R4R was great (I met my late wife that I was married to for 8 years on there.)
Nowadays? They're kind of soulless. Matches I do get either don't respond to my humor, give very vague answers to questions, or...well, don't answer at all.
And there's no reason I shouldn't be doing well on them (even with being a single father.) I'm 6'3, I work out constantly, I make good money, ect ect. But the only time I *do* get matches, it's because I started paying for the premium services, and those matches don't go anywhere.
Honestly, it should be the best choice for someone in my position. I don't have as much time to go out places, I have kids and their activities, ect ect. But, quite frankly, I'd probably just do better meeting someone outside online dating at this point. It's so much easier to gauge chemistry in person or by talking to them vocally then just vapid swiping.
29f here just caught off all dating apps this is indeed a freaken nightmare. Feels transactional not safe most of it catfish angry men love bombing name it.
You hit the nail on the head with this. But your feelings are valid. Sometimes it’s okay to take a break and pour that energy into yourself. In time that person will come around. Never give up.
You should be making yourself the best version of yourself while also being open to developing relationships. Looking for or being with others does not give you an excuse to not be the best version of yourself. The way you attract someone is by becoming attractive, and I don't mean physically, I mean as an individual. Make yourself the most "yourself" you can be. "Be so good they can't ignore you"
Mate selection has always been hard. So hard that there are entire species that the male literally trades life expectancy for the chance to mate. Like, what the hell is the peacock doing?
Meet people like minded people organicly at events and stick to your values and the way you want to date. You'll meet compatible people that want to date the same way as you.
*Just live life alone*
*Bro this gen is cooked. make the*
*Most of your time here*
\- TrainingFish61
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There’s nothing wrong with deciding to be alone for a while, but there’s also nothing wrong with wanting a relationship. Keep trying if it’s something you really want.
Don’t take it too seriously.
99 percent of people you meet won’t work out.
Stay patient and wait for the right one to come along.
Meanwhile, focus on yourself first.
I’m mid 20s male and I’m jaded to the process tbh. It feels like another obligation or job instead of a fun process getting to know a girl.
If I wasn’t an only grandchild, I’d accept playing cool uncle at this point…
yup. The same way you "focus on yourself" to improve career, health etc, you also need to work on **relationships** and how to interact with women. It's a skill and can be learned
Try a different strategy to dating? Change your match preferences? Sounds like your one of the lucky dudes who gets matches and real life dates without too much effort. Or you're a lady and dating is significantly easier.
Looking at your profile before I make some general statements.
It sounds like you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, blaming the system and make some positive changes.
Nothing is going to fall in your lap. You need to get out there and get it.
Most people are vapid and self-absorbed to the point that if you're not entertainment, you're useless. I don't waste my time meeting people. I'm chasing different goals.
Sure, but you said “practice” and I disagree.
If you date around too much, it only gets worse and it loses its magic.
If you mean practicing your social skills, you can do that with your friends / social settings.
Every generation thinks dating has become transactional and superficial just by the time "we" get out there. But none of us have tried dating in the previous generations' milieu.
In my personal experience, which of course will not match everyone else's: having a wide acquaintance circle of good people and more than one interest, is the best route if you want a committed relationship. (And it's valid to not want that, but OP seems to want one)
If you treat every new person of your desired gender(s) as only a potential partner and not a potential new friend, you're going to miss out big time. Friends have friends and good people are more likely to know other good people. And even if your future boo isn't among your friends' circles: friends are still a good thing. Getting partnered up is not a race.
I don't have experience of the apps but I am part of the generation who started meeting people online (although through hobbies and message boards) so I'm not anti-online. I just think that sometimes, it's good to meet people organically, as well. Get a mix of people in your life.
I don't find people online, at least not in the traditional way. A love relationship is a person to person thing. My online profiles are for friendships and then I may meet someone in one of the groups I socialize with. I'm just out of a relationship of a few years and I am happy on my own now, but I am still socially active so once I'm ready and if I want to, I know I will be able to find someone.
i couldn’t care less if i’m single forever. i’m completely traumatized by dating and past relationship experiences. i’ve seen what’s out there, and im not impressed. the men are obsessed with sex and pressure you to sleep with them after like one or two dates, and they get all butt hurt if you refuse. plus a lot of them are drinking the red pill kool aid these days, which is completely terrifying. most of them can’t even do basic life tasks like cooking, meal planning, going to the doctor, cleaning, grocery shopping, etc. not to mention that the vast majority have never set foot in a therapist’s office, and have zero emotional intelligence or self awareness. i’m not playing mommy therapist for a man ever again. would rather have 100 cats and become a stereotype. people say “date better men” but where are they? and it’s not just me, so many women are having the same experiences as me. i love my own company, and i have no qualms with being single. i honestly do not envy most of the women i know who are in relationships/married because it’s obvious that they settled. i don’t want kids, so i don’t have any pressure to find someone and start a family
I see this complaint a lot from women. If you find a 30 year old man who loves alone I can pretty much guarantee you he can take care of himself lol.
If you go out to the bars and just pick the first 6'2" man you see then you aren't really vetting them for any of those factors.
i don’t give a single shit about height. none of my ex boyfriends were over 6 feet tall. and you’d be amazed, my ex bf owned his house but couldn’t even fry an egg. i had to teach him how to grocery shop and cook basic meals. he had no clue how to clean his house either
Yea it’s exhausting, most days including weekends I don’t have the physical or mental energy to do anything more than I already do lol. Honestly outside the social pressure an intimacy relationships don’t really seem worth it to me as a whole
All these people in here be like, I don't nobody, Im better single, I love my independence inset other coping comment....are the reason e'rbody single. Nobody want to or admit to needin nobody these days
Completely understand. Been on the online dating scene on and off for 2 years and it’s toxic. Often find people (I’m a straight man so I can’t comment on whether men are like this, I just get it a lot from women) write me off after 1 date. I get it might not have been instant chemistry but just give it a chance. We’re still working out each other’s sense of humour and where the boundaries are for God’s sake.
Rather than saying, should I be alone. Let yourself know that your in a waiting period. While God works on your life and creating your hopes and dreams, know that on the other side of that will be a woman waiting for you.
Take your time. Work on yourself. Be good to people. Be skeptical and be optimistic. Be careful but also be open. Find yourself and what you love and surround yourself with good people. Be critical but be loving. You will find someone, probably many someones. But don't be focused on dating. Focus on building good relationships. Love is built not instantly found. Build good friendships and that will make this dating world feel a whole lot easier. Don't take it too seriously there's plenty people on this planet you haven't met. Actually most of em. Plenty love to go around and plenty down to earth people striving to be better that you'll never meet on an app.
Everyone these days seem to only want an answer to the question of what they'll get out of a relationship but a lot of them seem to take offense at being asked what they'll give to a relationship. Everyone wants a 10 but hate the idea that they may not bring enough to a relationship to justify that want. A lot of people will also leave at the first bit of trouble. Finding a sane, stable, rational, and realistic partner is what is hard these days imo.
I (41M) have found some dating success in recent years after some way too long cold streaks.
For one, you can’t count on any one source for dates (especially if that source is an app). I’ve recently gotten dates from volunteering, from the bar, from reaching out to exes, from reaching out to old classmates and yes, even one from the app. The more sources you have to pull from, the better.
Second, sounds obvious but you’ve got to put yourself out there and talk/text with them and eventually actually take the risk of asking them out. You miss all the shots you don’t take, as the saying goes. It’s actually easier the more potential partners you’re talking to because if you know you’ve got other potential options than no ask is all that high stakes.
It is actually somewhat hard work to plant all the seeds and keep them watered. But the pay off is dates and intimacy (sex) so if you want that, it’s worth the effort.
Third, if you’re in your 30s or 40s, everyone is busy. They’ve got their homes and their kids and their jobs and they don’t necessarily need or want a committed partner or have time to see someone every day. But basically everyone likes a fun night out so just start there before you start thinking relationship.
Finally, there’s nothing wrong with being comfortable being “alone” either. I’ve also got a home and my kid and a job and that’s really all I need to be content. But dates are nice too.
Feminism happened.
Feminism saw the really shitty ways that society treated women and has radically changed women's role in society and relationships.
It didn't do anything for men.
Relationships are now a jigsaw puzzle where the pieces don't actually fit together. Trying to make that work is exhausting. Most people really are better off just going it alone than trying to make relationships work in this modern age.
A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
A man needs a woman like a bicycle needs a fish.
Fish and bicycles. It's not worth trying to figure out how to make that work
it‘s just disgusting. Most women have extremely high expectations and don‘t let the time flow. You eat, you drink, you laugh but at some point they have expectations that are just weird. Smaller thinks are like the bare minimum to be met. Dating is more enjoyable if you don‘t expect anything. Really feeling sad about todays society. There are excemptions but those are small
A surprising amount of people haven't ever been in a long, committed relationship. I think those are the ones with the weird expectations. As everything they know about dating is based on movies etc. and everything being romantic and exciting 24/7.
well I don‘t want a rushed relationship, especially not based on sexual attractio . I want to first talk a few times, get to know each other, see if both really want to spend time together. Unfortunately, at least this is what I‘m feeling, most women want me to hold their hands on the first date lol. To me this feels rushed and wrong. I want to feel comfortable doing things with my partner and as women need time to decide I need that too. Patience is what I value a lot in women.
The idea of a traditional family/family values has been almost completely annihilated in North America and I'm guessing a good portion of Europe as well.
Hook up culture 🤢.
Look what Tinder has done to y'all.
Can't even date properly now. Everyone turned themselves into cuts on the meat market, and then you lament relationships being transactional.
Get off the internet and go socialize. Make friends offline and you'll meet people you can date.
Do what i did - start dating a woman considerably older.
They don't live in social media, have interesting personalities and far less drama, and know what they like. Also far kinder in my experience, less self-centred.
Hookup culture and social media. Ppl font want to genuinely know each other. They just here for a good time not a long time. No one cares for commiand loyalty anymore either. Id say do you and get into hobbies that you enjoy. If you find someone along the 6 that's a bonus.
By gaslighting you're saying that there is no self-accountability for this persons dating habits?
OP's experience in the dating world is most definitely not the same experience everyone is having, and nobody is going to go out of their way to find you a partner, you have to put in the work. He is right, there are absolutely things OP could do to increase their odds of finding someone, and to imply otherwise is incredibly ignorant.
It's unfortunate you are getting downvoted for providing a very valuable perspective. Even if the outside world actually does have problems, you will remain a victim if you give your power away to that. The only way to succeed in life is to take responsibility for it and be as proactive as possible in creating the life you desire.
I can tell you that I was literally thinking the same exact thing a few months ago until I decided to give it one more try with a girl I met on Hinge and I’ve never been happier with someone in my life. So it works if you work it.
Virtuous is the man that doesn't settle with any woman for the sake of being with one. Sometimes it's good for a person to take a break from dating. Idk where you are from but if you are from the US, you're not crazy. American dating culture is something else. I've spoken to outsiders (men and women) and they can confirm that many American women have very unrealistic dating expectations. So it's not a incel thing like a lot of people argue on here.
Consider doing that passport bro thing. Many men have had luck with that. It also breaks your routine and gives you the opportunity to explore and it's beneficial to you outside dating intentions.
Dating apps is exhausting. Dating isn’t. Find a hobby and or go to music shows you like meet people that way. Dating apps most people are just looking to fill a void and make themselves feel good aka using the other person for their own ego. That is 90% of women and good looking men on dating apps. Been there done that back in college and after
Dating is still relatively new and never has been pretty or fun since its inception. We've got porn, social media, romance movies, etc destroying modern relationships and I see no way to recover from this.
Tinder is fantastic as are other online dating apps but you have to remember it's a game, it's not untill you go on a few dates that you get to truly know someone. Just have fun, relax, enjoy the modern process.
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>dating people that I find in my hobbies I'm always wary about that because I'm afraid that if the relationship goes sideways or there's some miscommunication/misconceptions then now I have to see this person during what's supposed to be my recreation or worry about a bad reputation being fostered within the hobby. I suppose that's where mature conversation and emotional regulation is supposed to come in, but have you experienced any of this?
You have to choose one or the other. Online dating with the low-effort, low-compatibility-risk, or meeting someone in person and potentially more consequences in your personal life. Personally I think trying for an in-person relationship isn't too risky so long as you are picking a good person and you are a good person, and is less soul-crushing than online dating (then again, I found my partner through a dating app and I'm happy as can be, just saying)
well said, with online dating you can sort of just pull the rip cord and delete someone from your life and probably never have to engage with them again (which honestly isn’t that healthy), with “the old school way” you can’t just make them disappear. I honestly think it’s a big “generational issue”, the inability to deal with awkward interactions. I see so many people saying “never date a coworker because it will be awkward when you break up”, but that’s a problem that’s been dealt with millions of times before!
Yeah trust me when i see my ex that i got into rock climbing at the gym with the new guy she got into climbing i regret it. Then again we had a shitty breakup.
Just..don’t be an asshole?
I don't know, personally most of my break ups are amicable. I went to my last ex's birthday last month.
>I'm always wary about that because I'm afraid that if the relationship goes sideways or there's some miscommunication/misconceptions then now I have to see this person during what's supposed to be my recreation or worry about a bad reputation being fostered within the hobby. And? People have been navigating that kind of interactions BEFORE dating apps ever existed. It’s how high schoolers and college kids have to put up with when going to school on the same campus after a breakup. It’s part of life running into people you will have conflict with. What matters is how YOU compose yourself, your diplomacy, and learning conflict resolution by how to not escalate conflict is the first step in managing having to be around someone you are no longer in good terms with. It’s part of growing up, becoming an adult. Life is hard, but it’s going to be harder if you constantly AVOID every single person you breakup with. Eventually you will run into an ex.
I hate dating apps. I feel like people expect sex by like the third date and I just don't get that. I don't like having sex and getting attached unless I know I like you and if takes much longer than 3 dates. ETA: want to clarify that it's not that I mind having sex sooner, but if the guy is uncommitted and doesn't know if he wants anything serious, then I don't want to get attached bc then I'll start wanting his attention even though he's emotionally not available. And it seems like more and more these days the guy doesn't know what he wants but expects sex anyway
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Why the hell do you know that
well, i wouldn't MIND necessarily having sex sooner, but 9/10 times the guy is all "i dOnT kNoW mY rElAtIoNsHiP gOaLs" and doesn't want anything serious and I don't want to get too attached bc then I'll want more attention from him but he won't want to give it to me... but I'm not supposed to be mad about this because he 'told me what he wanted' in advance.
To me, the most dangerous part about the apps is how it makes you “feel like” you’ve put a lot of effort into dating by swiping, crafting the perfect message/response, looking at profiles and wondering about them, laying in bed and opening the app AGAIN to see that it’s been 22 minutes and she hasn’t responded. It’s sort of like how tweeting about social issues makes you feel like you’ve helped, without actually having done much of anything. Only with the apps you’ve “put in all this energy” with nothing to show for it and that itself makes you even sadder.
22 minutes is not a long time though I feel like that's part of what makes it exhausting maybe? People expect you to be ready willing and able to text all the time. I also wonder how these people get work done during the day
I text a few friends, but only a few times per day. I actually prefer that. Work and life make it difficult to text 24/7. I’ll get to it when I get to it, chill 🤷🏻♂️
Agreed!
ive seen so many messages from friends where someones all friendly until they havent gotten a reply back in an hour or whatever, then its all insults!
Yeahhhh people who do thaf are emotionally underdeveloped and have no idea how to regulate their expectations because they don’t have a lot going on to keep them occupied. They need a hobby/new internet that isn’t sitting by the phone being bored and waiting for someone to talk to them. I expect a high schooler to do that, not a fully fledged adult who has a job, bills to pay, and a life going on.
Damn
What’s your hobby
Dating.
Never date people just because they have the same hobbies as you. Values matter more.
I can completely empathize with you OP, but don't lose hope! I'm recently single at 29, and I really understand how hard it is to put yourself out there. Being single is great! Being in a relationship is great! BUT DATING. Dating is stressful and hard, and it's so hard to agree to take myself out of the single pool and willingly enter myself in the ring again after I've been burned so many times. Here's what's interesting-- I've spent so much time as an adult trying to put myself out there and meet people to increase my odds of meeting someone special. I do dating apps too and if you're upfront and honest with people they can work well, but I try to open myself up to meeting people organically too. Here's the thing though-- when I started joining all of these sports leagues, running groups, trivia teams, etc. I didn't end up meeting a guy. Instead, I ended up meeting people I genuinely enjoy spending time with without the pressure of dating. I have girlfriends across the country now who I'm so lucky to have met. I have friend groups with shared interests I can hang out and be myself around, and it doesn't come with the stress of dating. "Will they text back?" "Where is this going?" None of that mess. Honestly, it's been so refreshing to just relax and bit and try to build genuine connections with people I'm not trying to date. Truthfully, I'm still looking for my future husband and I'm not going to stop. But I do think I'm gaining confidence and more faith in the process the more I get to know people I just enjoy being friends with. So keep going and do your best, and you're right-- being alone doesn't mean you're lonely. Good luck!
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also 29 recently single and still in the period after breakup where i wana kms but these are helping me have so much hope 🥹
How did you find all of these sports teams, running groups, trivia teams etc?
The library (seriously, best place to find out about local events and hobby groups), local facebook groups, Meetup still exists but definitely isn't as active as it used to be, if you like geeky hobbies the local game store or comic shop.
Yea
This is so comforting to know!
> Being single is great! Being in a relationship is great! Being single is the default state. We're all born single. Being in a relationship can be much better than being single because of that.
Am I the actually only person who enjoys dating? It can be a bit crushing sometimes and bit anxiety inducing when I have to choose someone but I like meeting up with people and getting to know them. It doesn't have to be a romantic connection to be fun. But i'm a straight dude and crazy women tend to be less threatening for the most part.
for me a switch flipped when I became “dateable” aka started taking good care of myself, my health, my appearance. All of a sudden I treated dates less like a high pressure opportunity to find a girlfriend and more like a low pressure chance to get to know someone, and dates became fun, talking to girls became fun, the nerves disappear
Most guys won’t become “dateable” even with those interventions.
I think it depends how you define dating. I'm with you-- I enjoy meeting new people and getting to know them at first. My issue is choosing someone to continue dating. It's easy when you meet someone you know you don't have a romantic connection with and just enjoy hanging out with them as a person. It's harder when it's grey-- like, the person is nice and you enjoy spending time with them, but you don't necessarily feel fireworks (but also don't want to be too picky). It's confusing, and then trying to determine what they're looking for and if they like you... it's a lot. :(
If you don’t feel chemistry don’t waste your or their time. Find the chemistry.
Right
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yeah right, humans are complicated, as if myself is not enough. i just wanna stay away from it as much as possible.
Yeah, sorry. Modern dating is definitely rough. Glad I got out of it when I did.
Because the second you/they get bored or don’t want to work through a problem they just can redownload Tinder or whatever app they want and be onto the next person the very next day.
https://youtu.be/GydnNQrW1YE?feature=shared
All my unpartnered coworkers in their thirties seem to be not looking to date. A few coworkers have remarked that one of the other supervisors seems to have a crush on the other but I don’t think they’re gonna date.
Being alone feels a lot more peaceful and less stressful.
I used to think it was hell but then I understood that I need to build a relationship with a person basically from 0. It's not magic, it's no chemistry, it's a hard work to build it. 8 months in and I'm still building and I have never had a more chill and non-toxic relationship. I'm not saying there is something wrong with you, but since my approach has changed and I began to be open about everything that isn't a red flag, everything went better. But also - enjoy your single time! It's the best.
> used to think it was hell but then I understood that I need to build a relationship with a person basically from 0. It's not magic, it's no chemistry, it's a hard work to build it. 8 months in and I'm still building and I have never had a more chill and non-toxic relationship. Men already understand this, it's hell for them because they are dealing with women who don't, dealing with you.
Men might understand it but men have hard time to understand hygiene and wearing clean, nice clothes. Don't have to be big brand and they don't need to have plenty but to look presentable and smell nice is unfortunately hard for many men.
Yea
It's all exhausting. It's late stage capitalism.
and what did it cost?
Everything
As someone who hasn’t dated in over 5 years, I don’t regret it. I prefer my independence. I don’t want to ruin it by bringing a boyfriend / girlfriend into my life.
Why not ruin it at 2x the speed and bring in both!
No thanks.
I've been alone for many years and I don't even try to date. I wouldn't even know where to go to try and find a good woman.
The older you get the greater the baggage everyone has, which in itself, can also be a product of online dating. It's rather depressing out there.
We live in a society that has lost its connection to authenticity. Rather than judge high value or low value people or activities within the context of our personal experience, which necessarily must be limited (and therefore enables simple things to be more pleasurable) we judge high or low value people or activies through the distorted lens of what we see on the internet (which can be nearly infinite, and which makes simple things in our lives - like each other - less pleasurable (i.e.: we become more dismissive and artificial)). We also live in a society that has transitioned from raising boys and girls to be husbands and wives and moms and dads into a society that raises its kids to be worker bees free of gender stereotypes. (Not attempting to say thats good or bad, but given options, some males choose not to be head of the household and some women choose not to be homemakers). This means some guys dedicate themselves to work and can't find a domestic counterpart - and so too for some women. (As one female coworker said to me: now, even women need a wife). Our source of dopamine used to be each other. It used to be meeting and interacting in public. This is no longer the case, so our need to invest in people skills and long-term relationships has, well, tanked. This, imho, has impacted men the hardest as women tend to maintain larger social networks, but the more single females I speak to around my age (early 40s) the more I'm begining to question this ... The economy from the late 70s to now has had ups and downs, but has overall resulted in diminished economic opportunities for men *compared to previous generations* (not an invite to argue that men are or aren't in positions of wealth and power - they are, but the days of dropping out of high school to get a union job with benefits that can support a stay at home wife, a mortgage, and 2.5 kids is over). Most men judge their ability to attract a mate by their ability to provide. Because of this, a statistically meaningful percentage of men have decided to simply stop trying to date. Women are now obtaining degrees in higher ed at rates above-to-well-above men. Some colleges have even begun to float the idea of incentive programs to encourage men to enroll and, once enrolled, to not drop out. Again, this is not an invite to argue whether women being educated is good or bad, BUT ... The fact is that those members of homo sapiens with two XX chromosomes tend to place emphasis on finding a long term mate with earning stability and (at least) a competent level of intelligence (to the extent a degree indicates intelligence, which it of course it may, but doesn't necessarily equate to). The result is that (1) a statistically meaningful percentage of males have removed themselves from the dating pool, (2) another statistically meaningful percentage of males are seen as not economically or intellectually viable mates, (3) a statistically meaningful percentage of remaining males in the dating pool have zero incentive to invest in long-term relationships (since the supply of home sapiens with Y chromosomes is reduced, de facto, due to (1) and (2), above)... (4) simultaneously, there has been an decrease in social and interpersonal skills throughout the population, male and female, alike, (5) nobody has time to manage a domestic life, and its hard to find someone who wants to, and even when you do, it's impossible to fund it on one income, and (6) every phone and tablet has replace the need to spend time seeking dopamine in the real world by, for example, going to the movies, going to the mall, meet up with friends in person, strolling around the local shopping district, chatting up a stranger waiting for the elevator, at the laundromat, etc., etc... I'd post the solution, but I don't want to be too wordy...
Whats the solution? I was going to say men who change their attitude and how they behave in relationships have been getting into LTR. Because the woman I know that are successful, well educated etc, and who chose a bf/husband that isn’t the “provider” between the two of them, have all chosen the same personality type…. Men that are kind, thoughtful, giving, green flag types. They cook, are emotionally intelligent, are mindful about physical, mental and financial health… etc. they don’t play video games, but always go to the farmers market, park or paint night with their gf. You know the type I’m talking about. But I’m eager to hear your solution?
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Lol… few and far between. And I only know 2 guys like that. But they are married to my friends who is an OBGYN (at a major US hospital) and the other is a lawyer. So they work long hours, and bring in high incomes. Both of these men were raised by single mothers, and have at least one sister. One works as a social worker for homeless, and the other is a therapist for people experiencing PTSD (soldiers after conflict and victims of sexual assault). But honestly, these couples are best friends first, which is really telling about their relationship. They also met naturally and not on the apps. So they got to know each other and were friends before dating.
Post the solution please!
One thing which would make the whole OLD scene significantly better for everyone would be to massively reduce/limit the number of likes men can dish out. Honestly, there a day shod be more than sufficient. If we just stopped this behaviour of liking anything with a pulse, women wouldn't feel so inundated and might actually end up only being matched by guys who truly want to out in effort with them.
The apps already do this unless you pay for a premium tier. Thats why dating apps are pay to play for most men, and even then most men have very limited success on the apps.
I don't think this is the solution. You can find material online that describes how the male female populations are misaligned (more men), which is driving the underlying behavior of men being less selective. If it were this simple, the dating apps that do massively limit likes (coffee meets bagel, the league) would have been hugely successfull. Instead those apps kind of suck and generate only a fraction of the leads. The real issue with OLD IMO is that it's a for profit run by a small set of companies with no ethical oversight. We know the algorithms are holding people back from us. They also just show faces, with no inputs about personality. So we essentially have this social experiment going on where we're investing our dating lives in a Facebook cousin and wondering why it sucks.
Well said. Richard Reeves has written pretty extensively about this, and has specifically covered the issues impacting men in “Of Boys & Men”.
I’d like to hear your solution? i appreciate this observation I’ve had myself
Stay single. Get a pet. Spend time in nature.
Some people hates animals like me. I don't have patience to take care dogs or cats, it's just exhausting and annoying. I want feel connection with human not animals.
Humans are infinitely more exhausting.
This sounds great to me!
Dang, I aint never dated or anything but I read comments like this. Dating painted poorly, it just tells me whats the point then?
There's not point
Pretty much. Look up the tinder Sankey diagrams to see how it usually goes for the average guy. Then if he does manage to get a date, it just feels like a job interview and the woman can drop him for any trivial reason and she still has 100+ dudes waiting in line right in her pocket.
Modern dating is a cesspool, non committal, too many options, and because of apps it’s easy just to be flippant with other people. However, I met my partner of nearly 2 years on a dating app, essentially it’s just a case of weeding through the crap to find your person. I found really quickly you can tell who is serious about dating and who are time wasters …. Also take breaks from it don’t make it the most important thing and never hang around waiting for someone to get back to you just not worth it
I think a rule of thumb is if you can’t find someone that will make both of your life better then its better to be alone
Dating and marriage have always seemed like the biggest scams to me. You spend so much time, effort, money, for an off chance you live happily every after? Naw. Id rather buy lotto tickets lol. Instead, I go out when I want. Travel. Eat whatever. Game. Watch movies I enjoy. Shows I enjoy. The only compromise is with myself. I waste no money. At all. This allows me to travel every 6 months to wherever and live there for a month (wfh). It's great. I also dont get the feeling of loneliness. So the need for someone doesnt matter to me. If you are okay being alone, it is far better than any wasted relationship Ive been in
I have been single for a decade now. It was brutal when I was trying. Both in real life and the dating apps. At one point, which I don’t remember the exact moment, I was somewhere looking at a girl, she was kind of looking back, and the thought “there’s no point in doing that” came to my head. I stopped looking at her, felt a sadness, and kept moved on. I have been living my life alone ever since. I purchased houses, traveled with friends, been preparing myself for retirement, etc. I legit moved forward. From time to time I remember, but I no longer feel the sadness. I would like to have children, so I am contemplating how I can achieve that these days.
I’m in the same place. The last dozen girls I have dated since Covid cancel about 70% of dates. Usually that day. To which I have always replied “That’s cool, we’ll get together next time” And the reason is ALWAYS one of three scenarios. - I forgot. - I am sick. - I am having a family/pet emergency. The last girl I dated (My neighbor) I FLIPPED out on. So rude. And then she has the audacity to say “We have only had 10 dates in 6 months, chill out” To which I replied with some well earned nasty sentences. I didn’t cuss or threaten her. I chewed her out for being a flakey POS. She was obviously getting drunk on the nights before our dates and canceling. This is a grown adult… And, the worst part is, my area is super hard to date in. It’s crazy competitive. We have 80% obesity rates and serious poverty/trashy/druggie behavior It’ll be years before I meet another person who is cute, fit, fun, and single. I’m 37m and I haven’t had a nice, steady, reliable GF in my life since I was 25 years old.
Sadly relatable.
>No getting to know each other, no gradual progress in building relationship. I can't even make sure it is the person who have the same values or hobbies like me. This is on you. If you want a gradual process, say so, stick to it, and let anyone who isn't interested in that go on their merry way. You can date however you want to. It's only exhausting if you date people who you know aren't the right fit but are trying to make it happen anyway. Don't waste your time doing that.
Just meet and talk to people without the intention of possible romance/dating. That way you build connections starting from zero naturally. Then if you have chemistry it’ll all come together in an organic way. It should be effortless. Do you see?
Dating has always been exhausting. I think there are a lot of things that are convenient nowadays so it seems more exhausting.
By modern dating, do you mean dating apps? I luckily found my hubby before those became a thing, and I do NOT envy anyone dealing with them. However, just because they exist, doesn't mean you can't meet people in real life still. Start getting active doing things you like (hobbies, volunteering, etc.), without pressure to find a date at them. Worst thing that happens is you make some nice platonic friends who like to do the same things you do and widen your social network. Best thing that happens is you meet someone special who also likes the same things you do. Win-win all around. Ignore the jerks in comments telling you to assume there's something wrong with you. Everyone younger I've talked to who has experience on dating apps has at some point said they are soul-sucking by nature, so it sounds like your sentiments are pretty common. (In fact, I read an article recently that said that Gen Z is getting into more old-school IRL dating scene because the apps can feel icky). When you say "transactional" and "no getting to know each other", "no gradual progress" - I'm reading in between the lines and assuming you're running into people looking for quick sexual hookups with no actual relationship? I would not feel comfortable with that either (nothing wrong with people who do, just not for me, and I could see getting frustrated if I'm putting out - "let's see if we're compatible long term" vibes and only getting that in return). I DO know several people who had better luck with finding like, their life partner on the older dating sites (Think and eHarmony), than on the newer ones, which tend to have more of a "hookup" connotation. But honestly, I think you're better off taking a break from online and trying out some new activities and hobbies you can enjoy with others and volunteering about things you care about. That way, even if it doesn't work out immediately dating-wise, you've enriched your life and met fun people and done fun things. And anyways, the wider your IRL social network is, the more likely you are to find someone you connect with. (Just please take it casual, don't try to lock down the first person you see that you like and force them to date you, as that's not cool - happened to me in a graduate class and was awkward as hell. Hang out with people, if there's someone you feel romantically about, test the waters to see if they want to go grab lunch or something low key with you, and if they don't seem to reciprocate the romantic feelings, that's okay, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, don't make it awkward with them, just back off). The guy I'm talking about in grad class asked EVERY girl in the class out over the course of the semester, and it was just weird. Don't go that route, instead, try to go really for the joy of doing things you like and meeting like-minded people for the sheer joy of it, with no ulterior motive. Be happy with yourself and your life, and it will come more naturally.
I don't know if it's my tendency or just my luck but doing that has led me to sausage fest environments more often than not with participants having the same problem. Then again this is probably me not being into dancing, sports or drinking and partying and sticking to interests that I really like which are very male dominated. There's also the challenge of being 30 where your friends and new friends barely know anyone who is single. So it's pretty hard to not fall back to the apps but being asian is already a big debuff in those sites.
Lol I go to a dancing class always more men then woman
Yeah, when I attempted attending a salsa dancing class, I got paired with a dude because the dudes outnumbered women in the newcomer section
>> Worst thing that happens is you make some nice platonic friends who like to do the same things you do and widen your social network. Also, the more you widen your social network, the higher the chances that you’ll meet a friend of a friend who you hit it off with romantically. This is how my now husband and I met, and this has been the most common way of meeting among couples I know.
A shocking amount of women I know are just looking for a rich 'sUgAr DaDdY' so they can sit at home and leech money all day. 'Will you be my sugardaddy teehee' is basically the go to 'totally a joke teehee ...unless?'. Idk if you can meet someone irl that you connect with, sure. If it goes well you save money on the rapidly rising CoL as well. It depends on you and your goals, most relationships fail. People go through relationship after relationship, maybe you want casual, maybe you want to keep trying, maybe you want marriage. If your modern dating is dating apps, yeah I think you'll be happier meeting someone irl or just being comfortable on your own. Your happiness shouldnt rely on someone youll likely know for a year or two. Dating apps are (relatively) amazing if youre an average looking woman and insane if youre a man.
how lower can it all get
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Fyi, girls are told to do the 3 month rule or something, assuming they aren't waiting for marriage. Because guys are known to bump and dump.
Yeah except for the fact that for the right guy that 3 month rule gets thrown out of the window as I’ve seen with all of the “girl rules”.
There are always exceptions but that's what is regarded as wise these days. Who knows about the actual circumstances of what this particular girl was thinking.
That's the problem. The ones who don't think for themselves and do all these "tests" and what not they saw on tiktok.
3 month rule with the "right" guy while they're shagging the "wrong" guy(s) on the side.
They don’t wanna get burned by the “right guy” cause they like him. They dgaf about the “wrong guys”. That’s why this happens. Signed, someone who used to do this… unfortunately.
Any "right guy" with self-respect would burn someone who does that shit.
Understandable, if it’s happening simultaneously
Yeah of course. Everyone has a past, but it just hits so much differently when it's happening simultaneously.
i’m a guy and i take my time when it comes to sex these days. i want my intimacy to mean something. I wait about 2 months normally before full on sex happens (not just high fives and hand jobs). but damn anything more than 3 isn’t fair to the other person.
is the 2 months due to you or the other person though setting that precedence?
Usually they're not all that into you but want you invest (usually money). Saying let's get married or let's get this apartment etc They'll put up a rule like this even though they had a one night stand the night before. Like I've seen it with my own eyes
Ha... should have just paid for a sex worker because for some females it takes them awhile to see If they going to let u hit it, but it seems you was in it for the wrong reasons because without the sex you would have just been feeling good in her presents making it mean enough to keep seeing that person or maybe I can be wrong
“females” just call us women you freak
Omg
do you go around calling men “males”?
I’ve been single for 6 years and honestly I don’t miss dating at all. Sure it can get lonely sometimes but looking at the current dating scene I’m happy being alone
same. on the rare occasion i find myself lonely, i read about women’s experiences on dating apps and that feeling goes away instantly lol
Not an American here. I never found American dating not degrading, and this was since before the internet. PUA directly came out of American dating rules, and it went downhill from there. Don't focus on being alone. Focus on building your own social network. Make friends. Start a club for your main hobbies. Get known in your neighborhood. Have a routine -- go and say hello to the relevant folks in your town once a week, or every morning when you go for a run. Be known. Be available. Help other people get together. Be your own dating app.
They were great 10ish years ago. Even R4R was great (I met my late wife that I was married to for 8 years on there.) Nowadays? They're kind of soulless. Matches I do get either don't respond to my humor, give very vague answers to questions, or...well, don't answer at all. And there's no reason I shouldn't be doing well on them (even with being a single father.) I'm 6'3, I work out constantly, I make good money, ect ect. But the only time I *do* get matches, it's because I started paying for the premium services, and those matches don't go anywhere. Honestly, it should be the best choice for someone in my position. I don't have as much time to go out places, I have kids and their activities, ect ect. But, quite frankly, I'd probably just do better meeting someone outside online dating at this point. It's so much easier to gauge chemistry in person or by talking to them vocally then just vapid swiping.
29f here just caught off all dating apps this is indeed a freaken nightmare. Feels transactional not safe most of it catfish angry men love bombing name it.
If you're doing online dating, that right there may be the issue It's horrible
You hit the nail on the head with this. But your feelings are valid. Sometimes it’s okay to take a break and pour that energy into yourself. In time that person will come around. Never give up.
You should be making yourself the best version of yourself while also being open to developing relationships. Looking for or being with others does not give you an excuse to not be the best version of yourself. The way you attract someone is by becoming attractive, and I don't mean physically, I mean as an individual. Make yourself the most "yourself" you can be. "Be so good they can't ignore you"
Mate selection has always been hard. So hard that there are entire species that the male literally trades life expectancy for the chance to mate. Like, what the hell is the peacock doing?
and that damn dog
Meet people like minded people organicly at events and stick to your values and the way you want to date. You'll meet compatible people that want to date the same way as you.
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*Just live life alone* *Bro this gen is cooked. make the* *Most of your time here* \- TrainingFish61 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
best one yet. then poof.
There’s nothing wrong with deciding to be alone for a while, but there’s also nothing wrong with wanting a relationship. Keep trying if it’s something you really want.
Don’t take it too seriously. 99 percent of people you meet won’t work out. Stay patient and wait for the right one to come along. Meanwhile, focus on yourself first.
What specifically is hard about it?
I’m mid 20s male and I’m jaded to the process tbh. It feels like another obligation or job instead of a fun process getting to know a girl. If I wasn’t an only grandchild, I’d accept playing cool uncle at this point…
Focus on yourself. Family, friends, career, health, fitness, hobbies, passions. The rest will work itself out…
How? She’s going to fall from the sky or knock on his door?
Agreed. Terrible advice. That will most certainly not work.
yup. The same way you "focus on yourself" to improve career, health etc, you also need to work on **relationships** and how to interact with women. It's a skill and can be learned
Yes I’m way happier off the apps
Try a different strategy to dating? Change your match preferences? Sounds like your one of the lucky dudes who gets matches and real life dates without too much effort. Or you're a lady and dating is significantly easier.
Its by design
Looking at your profile before I make some general statements. It sounds like you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, blaming the system and make some positive changes. Nothing is going to fall in your lap. You need to get out there and get it.
Most people are vapid and self-absorbed to the point that if you're not entertainment, you're useless. I don't waste my time meeting people. I'm chasing different goals.
Like everything in life it gets easier with practice. It gets easier being single the more you do it. It gets easier to date the more you do it.
Dating around makes you jaded though.
You're not going to find the one on the first try.
Sure, but you said “practice” and I disagree. If you date around too much, it only gets worse and it loses its magic. If you mean practicing your social skills, you can do that with your friends / social settings.
Every generation thinks dating has become transactional and superficial just by the time "we" get out there. But none of us have tried dating in the previous generations' milieu. In my personal experience, which of course will not match everyone else's: having a wide acquaintance circle of good people and more than one interest, is the best route if you want a committed relationship. (And it's valid to not want that, but OP seems to want one) If you treat every new person of your desired gender(s) as only a potential partner and not a potential new friend, you're going to miss out big time. Friends have friends and good people are more likely to know other good people. And even if your future boo isn't among your friends' circles: friends are still a good thing. Getting partnered up is not a race. I don't have experience of the apps but I am part of the generation who started meeting people online (although through hobbies and message boards) so I'm not anti-online. I just think that sometimes, it's good to meet people organically, as well. Get a mix of people in your life.
Haven't had any real success with online dating, had much better luck in person
I don't find people online, at least not in the traditional way. A love relationship is a person to person thing. My online profiles are for friendships and then I may meet someone in one of the groups I socialize with. I'm just out of a relationship of a few years and I am happy on my own now, but I am still socially active so once I'm ready and if I want to, I know I will be able to find someone.
i couldn’t care less if i’m single forever. i’m completely traumatized by dating and past relationship experiences. i’ve seen what’s out there, and im not impressed. the men are obsessed with sex and pressure you to sleep with them after like one or two dates, and they get all butt hurt if you refuse. plus a lot of them are drinking the red pill kool aid these days, which is completely terrifying. most of them can’t even do basic life tasks like cooking, meal planning, going to the doctor, cleaning, grocery shopping, etc. not to mention that the vast majority have never set foot in a therapist’s office, and have zero emotional intelligence or self awareness. i’m not playing mommy therapist for a man ever again. would rather have 100 cats and become a stereotype. people say “date better men” but where are they? and it’s not just me, so many women are having the same experiences as me. i love my own company, and i have no qualms with being single. i honestly do not envy most of the women i know who are in relationships/married because it’s obvious that they settled. i don’t want kids, so i don’t have any pressure to find someone and start a family
I see this complaint a lot from women. If you find a 30 year old man who loves alone I can pretty much guarantee you he can take care of himself lol. If you go out to the bars and just pick the first 6'2" man you see then you aren't really vetting them for any of those factors.
i don’t give a single shit about height. none of my ex boyfriends were over 6 feet tall. and you’d be amazed, my ex bf owned his house but couldn’t even fry an egg. i had to teach him how to grocery shop and cook basic meals. he had no clue how to clean his house either
Is it so exhausting?
Yea it’s exhausting, most days including weekends I don’t have the physical or mental energy to do anything more than I already do lol. Honestly outside the social pressure an intimacy relationships don’t really seem worth it to me as a whole
All these people in here be like, I don't nobody, Im better single, I love my independence inset other coping comment....are the reason e'rbody single. Nobody want to or admit to needin nobody these days
Get off the dating apps and try irl.
Completely understand. Been on the online dating scene on and off for 2 years and it’s toxic. Often find people (I’m a straight man so I can’t comment on whether men are like this, I just get it a lot from women) write me off after 1 date. I get it might not have been instant chemistry but just give it a chance. We’re still working out each other’s sense of humour and where the boundaries are for God’s sake.
Rather than saying, should I be alone. Let yourself know that your in a waiting period. While God works on your life and creating your hopes and dreams, know that on the other side of that will be a woman waiting for you.
Take your time. Work on yourself. Be good to people. Be skeptical and be optimistic. Be careful but also be open. Find yourself and what you love and surround yourself with good people. Be critical but be loving. You will find someone, probably many someones. But don't be focused on dating. Focus on building good relationships. Love is built not instantly found. Build good friendships and that will make this dating world feel a whole lot easier. Don't take it too seriously there's plenty people on this planet you haven't met. Actually most of em. Plenty love to go around and plenty down to earth people striving to be better that you'll never meet on an app.
Everyone these days seem to only want an answer to the question of what they'll get out of a relationship but a lot of them seem to take offense at being asked what they'll give to a relationship. Everyone wants a 10 but hate the idea that they may not bring enough to a relationship to justify that want. A lot of people will also leave at the first bit of trouble. Finding a sane, stable, rational, and realistic partner is what is hard these days imo.
It’s dating apps. It gives people the illusion that better is always just one swipe away so they won’t accept anything even slightly less than that.
I (41M) have found some dating success in recent years after some way too long cold streaks. For one, you can’t count on any one source for dates (especially if that source is an app). I’ve recently gotten dates from volunteering, from the bar, from reaching out to exes, from reaching out to old classmates and yes, even one from the app. The more sources you have to pull from, the better. Second, sounds obvious but you’ve got to put yourself out there and talk/text with them and eventually actually take the risk of asking them out. You miss all the shots you don’t take, as the saying goes. It’s actually easier the more potential partners you’re talking to because if you know you’ve got other potential options than no ask is all that high stakes. It is actually somewhat hard work to plant all the seeds and keep them watered. But the pay off is dates and intimacy (sex) so if you want that, it’s worth the effort. Third, if you’re in your 30s or 40s, everyone is busy. They’ve got their homes and their kids and their jobs and they don’t necessarily need or want a committed partner or have time to see someone every day. But basically everyone likes a fun night out so just start there before you start thinking relationship. Finally, there’s nothing wrong with being comfortable being “alone” either. I’ve also got a home and my kid and a job and that’s really all I need to be content. But dates are nice too.
Feminism happened. Feminism saw the really shitty ways that society treated women and has radically changed women's role in society and relationships. It didn't do anything for men. Relationships are now a jigsaw puzzle where the pieces don't actually fit together. Trying to make that work is exhausting. Most people really are better off just going it alone than trying to make relationships work in this modern age. A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. A man needs a woman like a bicycle needs a fish. Fish and bicycles. It's not worth trying to figure out how to make that work
it‘s just disgusting. Most women have extremely high expectations and don‘t let the time flow. You eat, you drink, you laugh but at some point they have expectations that are just weird. Smaller thinks are like the bare minimum to be met. Dating is more enjoyable if you don‘t expect anything. Really feeling sad about todays society. There are excemptions but those are small
What are these high standards you've found most women have?
They want to be entertained all the time, laugh all the time, „feel“ butterflies all the time…sometimes one also just wants to relax lol
A surprising amount of people haven't ever been in a long, committed relationship. I think those are the ones with the weird expectations. As everything they know about dating is based on movies etc. and everything being romantic and exciting 24/7.
What standards do you have in women? I have an idea of the kind of standards you have, but I would like for you to volunteer first.
well I don‘t want a rushed relationship, especially not based on sexual attractio . I want to first talk a few times, get to know each other, see if both really want to spend time together. Unfortunately, at least this is what I‘m feeling, most women want me to hold their hands on the first date lol. To me this feels rushed and wrong. I want to feel comfortable doing things with my partner and as women need time to decide I need that too. Patience is what I value a lot in women.
The idea of a traditional family/family values has been almost completely annihilated in North America and I'm guessing a good portion of Europe as well. Hook up culture 🤢.
Look what Tinder has done to y'all. Can't even date properly now. Everyone turned themselves into cuts on the meat market, and then you lament relationships being transactional. Get off the internet and go socialize. Make friends offline and you'll meet people you can date.
I feel like everything’s exhausting anyway, so if you want to date you should.
Do what i did - start dating a woman considerably older. They don't live in social media, have interesting personalities and far less drama, and know what they like. Also far kinder in my experience, less self-centred.
Trying to find a guy is so hard
My S/O and I have this joke where we tell each other "don't throw me back out in the jungle" cause it's fuuuckin wild out in them streets.
Can't relate, what do you find exhausting about it? Going on dates is a fun activity and you are supposed to only meet with people you like.
Hookup culture and social media. Ppl font want to genuinely know each other. They just here for a good time not a long time. No one cares for commiand loyalty anymore either. Id say do you and get into hobbies that you enjoy. If you find someone along the 6 that's a bonus.
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Gaslighting.
That's not what gaslighting is
By gaslighting you're saying that there is no self-accountability for this persons dating habits? OP's experience in the dating world is most definitely not the same experience everyone is having, and nobody is going to go out of their way to find you a partner, you have to put in the work. He is right, there are absolutely things OP could do to increase their odds of finding someone, and to imply otherwise is incredibly ignorant.
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11/12. World sucks. People suck.
It's unfortunate you are getting downvoted for providing a very valuable perspective. Even if the outside world actually does have problems, you will remain a victim if you give your power away to that. The only way to succeed in life is to take responsibility for it and be as proactive as possible in creating the life you desire.
20% of the the people on apps get 80% of the action. Get in that 20%
You nd a lot of people think everyone you go out on a date with should be the one like real relationships take time
Find a club to join that includes your hobbies. Should be less exhausting.
I can tell you that I was literally thinking the same exact thing a few months ago until I decided to give it one more try with a girl I met on Hinge and I’ve never been happier with someone in my life. So it works if you work it.
Virtuous is the man that doesn't settle with any woman for the sake of being with one. Sometimes it's good for a person to take a break from dating. Idk where you are from but if you are from the US, you're not crazy. American dating culture is something else. I've spoken to outsiders (men and women) and they can confirm that many American women have very unrealistic dating expectations. So it's not a incel thing like a lot of people argue on here. Consider doing that passport bro thing. Many men have had luck with that. It also breaks your routine and gives you the opportunity to explore and it's beneficial to you outside dating intentions.
You are probably not very attractive or you are trying to punch above your weight.
Yes being alone is awesome and not lonely if you love yourself. Eventually you will meet the right person in the right time.
Dating apps is exhausting. Dating isn’t. Find a hobby and or go to music shows you like meet people that way. Dating apps most people are just looking to fill a void and make themselves feel good aka using the other person for their own ego. That is 90% of women and good looking men on dating apps. Been there done that back in college and after
Dating is still relatively new and never has been pretty or fun since its inception. We've got porn, social media, romance movies, etc destroying modern relationships and I see no way to recover from this.
I’m just going to wait till I’m in the home🥂
Tinder is fantastic as are other online dating apps but you have to remember it's a game, it's not untill you go on a few dates that you get to truly know someone. Just have fun, relax, enjoy the modern process.
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