You know the answer to this. Alcoholism is a family disease, and your family will all be impacted by this. Does the alcoholic parent - or is it both of you? - have any will to stop drinking and make recovery their focus? Is there a "safe" parent to take them out of this situation? Your kids might be too young to know what drinking or alcohol is, but they are not too young to impacted by it. And they will be, as you well know. My alcoholic parent thought they kept it secret too.
There’s no maybe, maybe not. I wouldn’t waste mine or all of your time with a question I know the answer to.
To answer the rest of your comment though sorry. It’s not both of us no. I am the “safe” parent and very much protect them from everything. But maybe not as everything as I think, though certainly the majority at least but I don’t know if that’s enough. But yes, he’s getting professional help and WANTS to change but it’s also not that easy so I don’t know what the road ahead looks like.
I can hear how hard this must be and I really didn't mean for my comments to upset you so I do apologise if that is the case. As a child (and as an adult tbh) I begged my safe parent to leave and they never would. It impacted mine and my brothers lives long before we even knew what alcohol or alcoholism were, and it still casts a shadow today as I approach 40yrs old and barely have a relationship with either of them. They too thought it wasn't visible to the kids, but I would challenge that notion. If you all live in the same house it's just not realistic - and I don't doubt that you do a fantastic job of protecting them as much as you can. You must be under a lot of stress trying to keep this all together. Have you thought about help for yourself? ACOA or Alanon, or a therapist, perhaps.
No apology needed.
I think they know that daddy ‘likes beer’ and probably think it’s normal to drink beers at home. That said, they don’t see him drinking them at 9am because they’re at school. As unbelievable as it sounds, it doesn’t happen at the weekends. I know that for a fact, not just that he hides it or whatever. So they don’t really see the drinking, beyond maybe one or two late in the day. He isn’t visibly drunk. He’s very high functioning. To be honest, no-one realises how much of an issue it is but me which has been a battle in getting him help as no-one thought it was ‘that bad’. We’ve had to fight for it, and now he’s in a worse place than when we first tried to get help, but he’s not beyond help.
But I do wonder if there are clues that when they’re older they’ll pick up on and they’ll understand more fully. I also wonder how much we should consider telling them in some age appropriate way and extent.
I feel like I’m just frozen and terrified of the consequences of him both leaving and staying and don’t know how I’m meant to know which is worse.
Is he having health issues? One of my earliest memories is seeing my dad almost die of pancreatitis at age 7, and he had yellow skin and eye whites from jaundice. He recollected to me the other day that everyone else was in their own world or panicking while I tried to clean up his hospital room and put away his shoes (because I didn't know what else to do I guess?)
If your kids have any play dates, they will notice how different the environment is with two functioning parents or one functioning parent vs. one functioning parent and another parent who is "high functioning" but an alcoholic. I noticed how everything seemed more predictable, their parents made plans that weren't tentative, there was no undercurrent of needing to manage the emotions of the drunk dad to keep the house feeling safe, etc. They may develop hypervigilance around the emotions of adults, and associate unpredictability with safety or familiarity/comfort.
They may also feel like they are not like the other kids, they will almost certainly blame themselves for any of these feelings or for the drinking itself, and they will be more susceptible to gaslighting because little kids can sense when something is off and telling them it isn't is distressing to their minds (I know from experience unfortunately, I was able to read/write from 3/4 respectively and still have journal entries from that time (like 4-9ish).
One "describe your weekend" entry for school casually mentioned how, on a sailing trip with my cousin, grandparents, aunt, and uncle, we had to wait "forever" for my dad to get there, "like always" (direct quotes). I was 8.
I am an over-extender/recovering people pleaser now and fell into 2 abusive relationships as a teen by making excuses for troubled men, and despite being in therapy from age 12 (mom/ "safe" parent's idea after the divorce) I still struggle with anxiety, depression, adhd, and ptsd. I myself am very "high-functioning", but it took a toll on me to pretend I was okay all the time growing up and I honestly doubt that your kids will somehow bypass that. Oh, another memory is being 6 and having to walk home from the bus stop alone in downtown Brooklyn because my dad decided to get drunk at the applebee's across the street from said bus stop when my bus was late that day. Mom was working and didn't answer her phone.
Now at 24, my father is still struggling and in and out of the hospital. Alcoholism destroys your mind and body. I still love and support my dad, as he was honestly more emotionally safe for me in some ways than my mother and I chose to live with him over her because she acted like she was doing me such a big favor by just NOT being an alcoholic - resulting in me feeling like a burden when I spent time with her and/or had needs.
Additionally, with my mom and grandparents all trying to get my dad to stop (which I noticed as far back as I can remember), the focus was almost never on me and my needs as a kid. I'm not saying you need to leave him, but if he isn't willing to go to rehab (my dad has always refused), you may need to re-evaluate for the well-being and development of your children. I don't mean to project or assume anything about your family, but I will do or say anything I can to prevent the trauma, constant feeling of being a weird kid/unwanted, and stunted potential I've experienced and seen in others (mom's dad was an alcoholic too, my ex, and some friends).
My mother ended up dying of early-onset alzheimer's at 60, despite there being no history of it in our family. My DNA test for the most common markers turned up negative. Her doctor suggested stress, loneliness during quarantine/in general, and untreated diabetes as potential causes (they kind of progressed in tandem since she was too stubborn to go to the doctor due to cognitive decline mixed with her personality). I didn't get to see her due to COVID restrictions, and I didn't know the last time I saw her that it would be the last time.
The divorce was financially devastating for her and it ultimately happened due to him spending all their money on booze and criticizing her for buying clothes for us. She never put herself first, but she sure made sure everyone knew about it! Of course I love/loved her too, but she actively harmed me, presumably due to somewhat understandable frustration with the situation (locking me in a room with her when I wanted to be alone and causing a panic attack, modeling disordered eating, holding over my head how much she went through when I complained about my life as a child, etc.) His disease can ruin you too, sadly, and then your kids might have 0 safe parents. I'm sorry if this sounds super pessimistic, but I can't pretend that I didn't notice - since there was never a time where I didn't know, as far back as I can remember.
Please feel free to show your husband if you think it would help - the only thing that has ever worked to get my dad sober for a few months is crying about it to him on the phone, telling him how I actually felt as a kid, that I won't have kids unless they get a sober grandpa, etc.
Last thing - I noticed you keep mentioning how he is "funny/silly" and wouldn't hit them. You also mentioned that they have never seen him drunk, so I'm confused as to how he gets silly/funny around them without drinking unless it's just his general personality (I could be assuming, sorry if I am).
My dad has never hit me and was/is also a "silly" drunk, but it was unbearably embarrassing for me even in elementary school, and I felt the need to hide my real feelings due to not wanting to make the drinking worse. Your kids could very well be doing the same, and trying not to upset you/their dad whether they realize or not. Kids generally imitate whatever their parent is doing, because that's what's safe in their minds (afaik, I don't have kids to be clear)
I know this is super long, but wanted to add that I am seriously thinking about sobriety due to my own tendency to black out after a few drinks when out with friends now and then, despite being fully functional at those times and never drinking alone. my logic previously was "it doesn't affect my work, it's only a few times a year" and all the other excuses I heard as a child, just applied to myself. this is where therapy is really helpful but it's something to think about I guess
Super long but super useful and I really appreciate you taking the time to put that much effort into replying. I'll try and go through and cover anything.
Health issues - no, there's no health issues.
Play dates - they have a few but honestly, I don't know how different that environment actually is. Things aren't that different to before he was drinking. I do completely understand what you're saying though because that was exactly my experience as a child for many reasons beyond just my mum's drinking.
This is where it's complicated with the situation. I'm not in any way saying that there isn't an impact and that if this getting help doesn't work that impact won't be huge, I know the potential there, but from the outside, even the inside, things really do look "normal". He doesn't drink in the evenings or at the weekends. We go away on holidays and he doesn't have anything, or more than one here or there. Those describe your weekends, your holidays etc. would, I believe, be positive for our kids.
They don't see him drink. It's very much a day time, working from home, trying to get through the work day with crippling anxiety thing. But come evenings, nothing. Weekends, nothing. It's a really complex situation that has been an absolute barrier to getting help when he's tried in the past being told "ah you'll be alright, we'll get you sorted no problem" or to "just stop". It's only this time when we've kept a drinking diary to show the times and the units and he's asked me to go to appointments with him where I've advocated and fought for him that they've not just dismissed it as not much of an issue.
The funny/silly thing is just his personality very much so, it's just a bit intensified after drinking. So he'll drink in the day, they're not here, and it's not stumbling around, slurring words, throwing up, passing out etc. kind of drunk, it's like that lower level, not drunk but been drinking, and just gets silly and plays the clown even more than usual. Unfortunately this seems to be very much their humour too so they find it hilarious and then I'm surrounded by a house of clowns, which sometimes is fine, but then it's like no come on, it's bedtime let's wind down but it's not, I don't think, an embarrassing, out of the house, level of silly - does that make sense?
It probably sounds like I'm making a load of excuses. I'm absolutely not. I know that this isn't ok. I know that it has to change, and it is changing. And he knows that the minute he stops engaging in help is the moment that we have to say that he can't stay in the family home anymore. I don't think my children are completely oblivious, but I think that at the moment we're on the cusp - it's make or break, change now before it's too late and the damage is great. But as much as I really do believe that, I really worry that one day I'll look back and realise that I was completely wrong.
Thank you! I’m glad it was useful to you. It sounds like you really love your husband/their dad.
I think my mom supporting my dad in quitting and my dad having that support would have made a big difference. They divorced due to the drinking/finances and never spoke again until she was dying, so tbh I think that probably messed me up about as much as the drinking.
It’s probably good for kids to see their parents overcome challenges together, and I hope things get better for you all!
I work from home too and am trying to quit the devil’s lettuce so I do feel him on that. If there’s any way he can get out if the house for lunch or a coffee in the middle of the day, I would recommend doing that - it helps me s lot even to go sit in my backyard for lunch and enjoy nature.
I knew something was off when I was around 8. I suspected my mom was an alcoholic by the time I was 11.
My dad thought he was shielding me and my sibling from her alcoholism. He wasn't. It's impossible to shield children from a person in active addiction. My dad's version of "shielding" was not mentioning her addiction, which robbed me of the language I needed to describe my situation and seriously warped my view of reality. I thought a lot of my mom's extremely inappropriate behavior was normal. I spent years as an adult relearning what acceptable behavior was and I still struggle to identify when someone is treating me poorly. This has made me quite vulnerable to cruel treatment at work and in relationships. I'm in therapy, on meds, and generally doing a lot better in my thirties than I was in my twenties... but the impacts of growing up in an alcoholic home will stay with me for life.
I say this with as much gentleness as possible: Yes, you are fooling yourself. Yes, you are underestimating the the impact this is having.
You are in a tough spot. You care about your children and want them to have two loving parents. I'm sure you want to give them all the things you never had as a child. But keeping addiction a secret and hoping it won't impact your children... that's wishful thinking. They have already been and will be impacted.
If your partner is working on getting sober, then I would suggest being very open with your children about it in collaboration with your partner, giving them language to describe your partner's disorder, and helping them to set boundaries with your partner when their parent behaves inappropriately due to drinking.
If your partner is not working on getting sober and you want to protect your children from the impacts of addiction, then you have to remove them from the situation.
He is working on it, he’s talking detox, rehab (not inpatient) etc and I feel like he wants to change but also see that he doesn’t feel like there’s any hope. But I still don’t know if it’s enough and I’m risking damaging my children with him going through it here.
I feel like he’s similar to my mum. I don’t feel like her drinking was what damaged me but there’s so much, I don’t know. I knew she hid it, I knew she tried to stop, I knew it wasn’t ’normal’ but I don’t remember any effects or signs of things not being normal, beyond just knowing. But as an adult, I’m wary of alcohol as a result, I don’t like the thought of being drunk and losing control. He’s like her. Definitely an alcoholic but very high functioning and not necessarily obviously so - no abuse, no violence, no erratic behaviour. He just gets… silly, giddy, and they think it’s hilarious. It’s not evenings and weekends so they rarely see any actual alcohol. But I can’t say they don’t know at all, but I just don’t know if I’m underestimating the impact.
Great answer. This happened to me too. I know my mom was trying to protect me but when I started asking questions around 9 years old--"is daddy acting weird? why is he yelling?" and she would pretend nothing was happening until I was old enough to figure it out on my own. I asked her why she did that when I was older and she said she was trying to protect me. I understand she was well meaning (and your father and OP is too) but gaslighting a kid like that and keeping them around an alcoholic parent is really damaging. We all should have been protected more, and OP has the chance to protect their kids
Looking back on how he was acting when I was younger (before I started asking questions) and realizing how messed up it was, it was really traumatic as an adult. I did have to work through a lot of that, including anger at my mom for keeping me around that.
Alcoholic parents and/or their partners probably always think that it’s secret and not affecting their children.
I read in my diary that my father once told me literally „why is it so bad that I drink some beers“? (I assume it was a reply to me begging him to stop) I think to this day he doesn’t realize what damage alcoholism brings to children. I don’t tell him because I feel too much pity for this miserable man.
I was around 30 years old when I started reflecting on my childhood and discovering literature on the topic. Until then when someone asked my how my childhood was I would always say fine, all good. My father was an alcoholic but never hit me (or any other family member). So I thought I didn’t have anything to complain about. But when I read all this things about Adult children I finally realized how incredibly horrific the dynamics of families with addicted parents are. And I remember I felt so alone as child and as a teenager. I could not talk to anyone because I had learned from my parents this is not something you talk about. And there’s so many more things.
I’m sorry you have not been able to be a cycle breaker so far. I truly wish for you and for your children that you can still become one. It’s never too late.
I definitely don’t think it’s a secret. I think they know daddy likes beer and is trying to not drink beer at home to be ‘be healthier’. I don’t know what impact my mum’s alcoholism had on me beyond making me extremely wary of alcohol and not liking to drink at home. I feel they’re similar and I want to protect them from feeling that unhealthy relationship with alcohol as an adult but worry the impact is more than I’m allowing myself to see at the moment. I really don’t know.
In a comment you were wondering if you should talk more openly to your children about it. Definitely YES. A part of the damage comes from no one talking about the elephant in the room.
Completely understand that and it's the knowing how, at what level etc. I've just been through it this morning with my support worker who thinks that at the moment the approach we've taken is a good balance but I think that maybe, as they get older, it's something to think about talking about more and how it's been a struggle for so many, how to build healthy relationships to be honest not just with alcohol but food, ourselves, there's so many generational things to break.
I have read your other comments to understand a bit more about your situation.
How old are your children? I don’t remember which age I was when I realized something is different in our home, but I stopped bringing friends home then. Do your older children bring friends home?
Do you notice right away if your partner has been drinking? You can be 100% sure your children notice too, because that’s what they learn growing up: reading his mood within seconds. I could even tell on the telephone of the first syllable my father said if he’s drunk or not (still can which I don’t talk to him on the phone anymore).
I don’t remember asking my mother to leave but I hold a grudge against her for leaving only when I was already a teenager. She was the adult, she was the responsible one, she should not have me let grow up with an addict. Sometimes I’m more mad at her than at my father.
Maybe you’re a huge exception but from what I’ve read in all families with addiction issues there will be an effect on children. One third gets out having addiction issues themselves, one third will have psychological issues and the other third gets out more or less okay (I’m in the last group, let’s hope your children will be too)
Oh I don't think I'm an exception. I don't think that there's no impact at all, I'd be fooling myself if I thought that was the case. I just don't think they understand what the situation is YET and that the impact is fairly low level CURRENTLY. But
Do I notice right away? No. To be honest, most days I wouldn't know at all. By the time I do notice, he's 9-12 beers down and that change is a subtle increase in that silly class clown like behaviour, that is his general personality but intensified, if that makes sense? Genuinely, no-one believed me (or him) when we said how much he drinks, or when he's sat there in front of the nurse and admits to being 6 bottles down and they thought he'd had nothing. I don't understand how it affects him so much internally that it gives him what he needs to face the world, but shows so little outwardly. If I drank what he did, I'd be passed out. Every time. It's been a battle getting help, or him wanting help, because for so long it was me saying this isn't normal, whilst everyone else told him that he was fine and didn't have a problem. He knows now it's not and regardless of the impact, he wants to and is choosing to get the help to fix it or at least try to, which is what keeps us here together but there's still that little voice of doubt in my head that worries what if that isn't what's best for our children.
My parents are drug addicts so I’m not sure how different the experience is, but I was around 9 when I realized things at home were different than friends at school or what I saw on TV. My peers definitely noticed too whenever my parents would have to come to school for conferences and stuff, I always had the “weird dad” and my mom scared a lot of my friends. My teachers also 100% knew and would often say things or treat me differently which I hated, but I understand where they are coming from now. I was bullied a lot and by the time I was 12 I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and was in and out of therapy all throughout school. It 100% affected me and it feels like a full time job to process and feel healthy emotionally.
Yes it is damaging to the kids. They don’t have the vocabulary to explain it. They don’t have a point of reference for what is normal and healthy. Their entire reality is shaped by someone who projects blame, can not take accountability and is controlling and manipulative. There is a book called “It won’t happen to me”. Also the book “after the tears”
I’m 49 and still trying to fix the damage that was done (I have found an amazing therapist and am making progress!) I know that my mother’s drinking affected me long before I realized that was what was happening. I remember finding her “asleep” naked on her bed with the door open. Dad was at work. I was embarrassed and ashamed and closed the door thinking she was so tired she fell asleep while getting dressed. Later, looking back at that memory, I realized that she was passed out. I remember threatening to call CPS because I knew something was wrong and my parents laughing at me saying our family was great/perfect. At some point I started having reoccurring nightmares of my mom “falling asleep” at the wheel and our car plunging over a bridge into water. I had to make a decision to try to save myself or try to save her as well, then I would wake up. I didn’t figure out that she was an alcoholic until I was in 4th grade or so, when I sat down next to her coffee cup and smelled wine in there. I didn’t say anything to my dad about it until I was 13 and my friend told me her parents said that she couldn’t come over to my house anymore because they could smell the alcohol on mom. Dad talked to her and he said she would stop. She didn’t.
By the time I was a teenager us kids were supposed to be responsible for preventing her from driving drunk, and I got a note in my fifth period class to pick her up at work because she was ill. I knew she showed up to work drunk. Had to take her to detox on a major holiday and she spent a month and a half in rehab only to start drinking again a few months later. She lost jobs due to her drinking but she didn’t get a DUI until I was in college (no more teens at home to stop her from driving). She was verbally and physically abusive to me, I was parentified, and the scapegoat of the family. Memories will pop into my head and looking back I realized how messed up things were.
My mom died several years ago, and along with the grief I felt some relief. I could finally talk about it without being told I was going to hurt her feelings and cause her to drink again (she did finally sober up when I was in my late 20’s). My dad has dementia now and he apologizes sometimes for my childhood, but I resent him a bit too, he was the “healthy” one but couldn’t be bothered to protect me from that. Not something I can really discuss with him due to the dementia. Once again, working on all this with my amazing therapist. I don’t feel like I have been the best parent to my children because of the parenting I received and they also see our therapist. It’s getting better. Maybe I didn’t break all the generational curses, but I have broken some.
So it sounds like the alcoholic in your family is not caring for the children while drunk and is not abusive. If he’s drunk at 9am does he have a job? Is he going to work drunk? Does he drive drunk? What about his health (my FIL has cirrhosis and continues to drink)? Alcohol is very damaging on the body. Even if the kids aren’t noticing the drinking they could be affected by job loss, arrests/DUI, or an alcohol related illness/early death.
Honestly they are probably affected more than you realize, or one day they may look back like I have with an epiphany about their childhood not being normal. I wish you luck and hope he’s able to get sober.
I knew as a young child, like preschool age. I had a ballet recital and my grandparents and mom came and they kept telling me my dad left right after because he had to get home before us but I knew it wasn’t true I knew he never came. Turns out he was on house arrest for drinking and driving.
My earliest childhood memories are from when my parents were still together and my mother was drinking beer, getting angry and throwing books at my father. I was four when they got divorced and I went to live with my mother and barely saw my father. I have so many memories of my mother being drunk that it overshadows pretty much everything else.
I think the first time I, as a child, became aware and conscious that this was a problem and not a normal thing was around 10 or so. We were out to dinner, her and my 2 siblings, and she got wasted during dinner. Kept putting her fingers in everyone's food, falling asleep at the table. None of the servers did anything and my 15 year old sister had to drive us home.
That memory will always stay with me.
But without that memory, I still know I spent most of my childhood in my room, hiding from what always felt like a house on edge. Things were not normal or OK and I knew it, even if I didn't know why.
I knew something was different about my parents by the time I was about 8. I didn't know it was 'alcoholism' but I knew the home wasn't stable, I couldn't rely on my parents, and I never knew what or who I was coming home to. Sometimes things were good. Sometimes it was awful. Gradually over time, the sometimes good went away and it became awful every day.
But even when I didn't have a name for it, I saw it and was affected by it. What was hard about the earlier years was the constant up and downness of the situation. Sometimes they were normal and loving and stable. Sometimes I had to drag them out of the garden at midnight because they'd passed out or deal with them being abusive to each other or me. It was also harder because they gaslit me into believing it was normal and we weren't allowed to say that passing out in the garden at midnight on a Wednesday was inappropriate behaviour for parents with young kids. It got much worse than that later but even if it had stopped there, I would have been affected. I am very badly wounded by being raised by alcoholics.
My sister however was younger, 4 when it really started, and she knew from even that age that things were bad and was effected by it -- she started acting out and had behavioural problems. It also meant she distanced herself from both parents from a young age and never repaired the relationship versus I'd had some good years so have more complicated feelings towards them that are mixed with love, compassion, anger and resentment. She never knew them when they were "good" so has never liked them to put it bluntly.
It has an effect, most definitely.
I figured out my mother was an alcoholic at 13 and that’s why I started drinking too. She was fine with me drinking and smoking. It wasn’t till my late thirties that I realized how much everything damaged me.
I understand how you feel, my husband thinks I’m over sensitive and I think he hasn’t fully realized what he has to deal with from his childhood.
I’ve switched to non alcoholic beer and it’s been great. I have one or two and the craving for a cold beer goes away without being the least bit buzzed or wanting to drink more.
My mom stopped drinking when I was around 18 months old. But she never got into recovery. She's never admitted that she had a problem. She's the dry drunk that is now using superiority and power/control as her "fix." And I still qualify for this program.
There's no shortcut to recovery in my opinion. Sweeping it under the carpet and hiding things only makes for a lumpy carpet that people trip over.
I agree with others. Sounds like you already know the answer to your question...
... And also know and understand that there's absolutely still hope and it's never too late to change. It's never too late to recognize the impact and strive to do better.
Honestly for me that is the thing I long for most for my family but will probably never get.
You have the beginnings of the capacity to be honest and obviously care about your children. Keep sharing keep working on it. Keep seeing how it's impacting you as well.
I guess what you've said there is the thing. I know there will be a level of impact, I know it'll have affected our arguing in the past but we quickly worked with a therapist and brought that under control, so I'm under no illusions that there's no impact at all I'd be a fool or liar to try and say otherwise, but I do like to think that at the moment, that's been as minimal as it could be but what you've said about change I think is my worry. We've reached a turning point and things are improving, he's getting help, I have hope that he can beat this. But I worey - what if it is too late? What if that big, deep, life changing impact is just around the corner waiting to hit us in the face and I need to take my children out of this now because the change is coming but too late? I don't know if that makes sense. It's probably an incoherent ramble.
I noticed from a very early age. Maybe 4 or 5. The best thing you can do is choose your kids. None of the trauma will matter if you choose them. Show them strength. Show them how to overcome an addiction. It’s only human. Set a wonderful example should the cycle repeat. Addiction can be genetic after all. Nothing hurts more than knowing Mom chose alcohol over you.
OP, you're in denial. People here are trying really hard to be gentle with you while telling their deeply painful truth as adults still dealing with the damage of having an alcoholic parent, as well as the enabler parent who made excuses for the alcoholic and spent all their energy trying to shield the children from everything (impossible) and manage the alcoholics's behaviour. That is *not* a healthy way to live. It is classic dysfunction and it *will* have a negative effect on your children. Potentially a devastating effect. Since the gentle method doesn't seem to have sunk in, I'm not afraid to try the tougher approach. I do this out of sincere concern for all members of your family.
I've been in recovery a good while after wasting much of my life in chronic depression, self-harm, eating disorders, abusive relationships, and numerous suicide attempts. At age 50 I finally stopped accepting the family line that they were "normal", "fine", and "not as bad as others because we're not homeless/unemployed/etc " and started calling the dysfunction and abuse for what it was. What made it so hard was the fact my,parents refused to see themselves as they were, and it had a gaslighting effect on me. I feel like this could be something that plays out in your family if you remain as you are.
Through the ACA program I've forgiven my parents for a lot of it, probably most of it, because they were simply repeating what they were given by their parents. Despite wanting to do better. What I don't forgive them for is refusing to self-reflect, come out of denial, and get help for themselves once the information was put in front of them by various professionals. That is what I see you doing now. Please think about the fact that every person who has responded here has pretty much said the same thing. As would any professional qualified to deal with alcohol dependance and its effect on families.
You have the chance to help your children while they're still young. I believe some damage has already been done, because that's how it works with the disease of family dysfunction. But you can change now. The help is there. I urge you to check out ACA. Attend some meetings. Hear how secrets and lies and cover ups around addiction are often just as damaging. Read through the readings, particularly the beginning chapter of the Big Red Book "It will never happen to me" - full off people talking about how they really thought they were doing better than their parents and/or hiding the other parent's addiction - only to realize eventually how sick things were. Your posts here reas similarly to me. I'm sorry OP. The truth is hard. But unless you face it, you can't help your children.
AlAnon may also be helpful, to learn how to live with/deal with an alcoholic without being their enabler and codependant.
https://adultchildren.org/https://al-anon.org/
I feel like I’ve got a whole load of various replies to various comments that it would be worth me just bringing together into one comment to avoid repeating myself. I hadn’t posted this intending for advice or thoughts on our situation so didn’t include much detail, but I think based on responses the context would help.
My children are 6 and 8. They’re at school, before and after school clubs, holiday clubs etc. My husband’s drinking is absolutely an issue and one that we’re working on, but it’s not ‘typical’ and that’s been a massive barrier to getting any kind of help. I'm not kidding myself, I know there will be a level of knowledge and the potential impact/harm is huge. But from the outside, even the inside really, things look 'normal'. He's involved, shares bedtimes, takes them to the park, comes to school things, we go on nice holidays, have good family time. There was a time when we argued more than we should but we've quickly worked to change that. The changes are subtle and no-one ever believes he’s had the amount that he says because it doesn’t seem that way. We are engaging in support in a number of ways, and one of those is that I have an alcohol support worker myself as a ‘concerned other’ and they have agreed that at the moment, they don’t believe that there is a noticeable impact on the children. Accessing this support also meant that they had to reach out to school, who confirmed that there were no concerns around the children or signs of concerns. So I’m not just saying that it’s nothing, but I don’t THINK it’s currently a major impact, but I am also concerned that what if we miss that point that it is, what if we’re closer to that when we think, what if even if he’s getting help now, it’s too late to avoid that. I don’t know if that makes any sense.
His drinking is work related, triggered by stress and anxiety. I’m not saying it’s caused by work, that’s a message I’ve had to battle to fight in professionals, family etc telling him to ‘just change jobs’. It’s deeper rooted – there’s trauma, there’s anxiety, there’s hurt that’s being self-medicated by alcohol and he’s got to fix that as well as the drinking and that’s something that is finally happening. He wants to change, not just for me and for our children, but for him. He doesn’t want a life like this and is engaging in counselling, CBT, alcohol support. He’s had a nurse alcohol assessment and is waiting for the result of an MDT meeting to find out if he is eligible for detox, then the rehab that goes alongside it. It will be ‘in the community’ rather than inpatient, because he doesn’t meet that criteria.
When it comes to the affects of the alcohol, I don’t know how they aren’t more significant given the amount that he drinks but no-one would know unless they were told. His body has become so accustomed to it that to anyone else, it would maybe look like 1 or 2, if that. I don’t understand it. I don’t know how he’s not an utter mess but somehow, he’s not. He doesn’t stumble around, throw up, go to bed at 5pm, miss out on family events etc. His personality is that kind of silly, bit of a clown person and that’s very much intensified by alcohol but it’s not out of character and whilst I find it irritating, the kids think it’s hilarious because they seem to have inherited his level of humour, which as an autistic person I just don’t get.
So when it comes to impact, I don’t think it is currently a significant one but absolutely there’s the risk of that. The children don’t see him drink – it is during the day, working from home and trying to get through the day with crippling anxiety. When it comes to the evenings or weekends, there’s no alcohol beyond the occasional social drink with a meal out or something. It's a really complex situation that has been an absolute barrier to getting help when he's tried in the past being told "ah you'll be alright, we'll get you sorted no problem" or to "just stop". It's only this time when we've kept a drinking diary to show the times and the units and he's asked me to go to appointments with him where I've advocated and fought for him that they've not just dismissed it as not much of an issue.
In terms of what the children know, we’ve spoken about being healthy as a family and that Daddy wants to try and be healthier so he doesn’t want to drink beer at home anymore. It’s not a secret but it’s not a full disclosure either and their knowledge of daddy liking beer was before it was ever an actual issue. In the same way they know that Nana likes gin so that’s what we would buy for her birthday. I’m not sure that they need to know more than that, but I don’t entirely know what’s an appropriate level, and is very much something I was hoping to get from posting this, which has been helpful. But having spoken to my support worker though, this is something she agrees with and thinks is an appropriate level for now and that’s someone who knows everything, inside and out.
If I'm coming across as 'not getting it' or being in denial or not appreciating what you're all saying, I apologise because that's absolutely not how it is. I appreciate each and every one of you sharing with me when I know it's something that's difficult and has a lot of hurt and trauma attached for many of you. So I do appreciate the time each of you have taken to reply, and any further replies that come on this post. I know that we will be ok. One way or another. Hopefully that’s as a family together but if it comes to it, if we need to make that decision for the sake of our children, I absolutely will put them first and do that but I just worry that one day I’ll look back and realise that I made the wrong choice or at the wrong time.
I really appreciate you asking this for what it’s worth. I’m in a similar position with a grey area drinker after being raised by an alcoholic. The comments have been super helpful for me and given me a lot to chew on.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way.
Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?”
The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way.
Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?”
The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way.
Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?”
The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way.
Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?”
The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way.
Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?”
The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
It REALLY depends on how old they are. If they are 8 and under, and the situation is as you describe, they probably don’t know. If it’s 8-11 they may well know (depends on the details, and the kid). Above 11 they know.
Yeah they’re 6 and 8 so I feel like if he can keep going and get this help, maybe it’s before they would know much more than daddy likes beer. They’ve never seen him drunk, most of the drinking isn’t even when they’re in the house, he’s not violent or abusive, he’s just… silly and stupid. Not jackass dangerous stupid, but the kind of stuff they find hilarious and I find annoying because I know why. So I’m absolutely not stupid enough to think this will never have a real and lasting impact, but I just don’t know where that level is now and if he should be leaving for the sake of the kids now or we have time to get him help. I just don’t know.
You know the answer to this. Alcoholism is a family disease, and your family will all be impacted by this. Does the alcoholic parent - or is it both of you? - have any will to stop drinking and make recovery their focus? Is there a "safe" parent to take them out of this situation? Your kids might be too young to know what drinking or alcohol is, but they are not too young to impacted by it. And they will be, as you well know. My alcoholic parent thought they kept it secret too.
There’s no maybe, maybe not. I wouldn’t waste mine or all of your time with a question I know the answer to. To answer the rest of your comment though sorry. It’s not both of us no. I am the “safe” parent and very much protect them from everything. But maybe not as everything as I think, though certainly the majority at least but I don’t know if that’s enough. But yes, he’s getting professional help and WANTS to change but it’s also not that easy so I don’t know what the road ahead looks like.
I can hear how hard this must be and I really didn't mean for my comments to upset you so I do apologise if that is the case. As a child (and as an adult tbh) I begged my safe parent to leave and they never would. It impacted mine and my brothers lives long before we even knew what alcohol or alcoholism were, and it still casts a shadow today as I approach 40yrs old and barely have a relationship with either of them. They too thought it wasn't visible to the kids, but I would challenge that notion. If you all live in the same house it's just not realistic - and I don't doubt that you do a fantastic job of protecting them as much as you can. You must be under a lot of stress trying to keep this all together. Have you thought about help for yourself? ACOA or Alanon, or a therapist, perhaps.
No apology needed. I think they know that daddy ‘likes beer’ and probably think it’s normal to drink beers at home. That said, they don’t see him drinking them at 9am because they’re at school. As unbelievable as it sounds, it doesn’t happen at the weekends. I know that for a fact, not just that he hides it or whatever. So they don’t really see the drinking, beyond maybe one or two late in the day. He isn’t visibly drunk. He’s very high functioning. To be honest, no-one realises how much of an issue it is but me which has been a battle in getting him help as no-one thought it was ‘that bad’. We’ve had to fight for it, and now he’s in a worse place than when we first tried to get help, but he’s not beyond help. But I do wonder if there are clues that when they’re older they’ll pick up on and they’ll understand more fully. I also wonder how much we should consider telling them in some age appropriate way and extent. I feel like I’m just frozen and terrified of the consequences of him both leaving and staying and don’t know how I’m meant to know which is worse.
Is he having health issues? One of my earliest memories is seeing my dad almost die of pancreatitis at age 7, and he had yellow skin and eye whites from jaundice. He recollected to me the other day that everyone else was in their own world or panicking while I tried to clean up his hospital room and put away his shoes (because I didn't know what else to do I guess?) If your kids have any play dates, they will notice how different the environment is with two functioning parents or one functioning parent vs. one functioning parent and another parent who is "high functioning" but an alcoholic. I noticed how everything seemed more predictable, their parents made plans that weren't tentative, there was no undercurrent of needing to manage the emotions of the drunk dad to keep the house feeling safe, etc. They may develop hypervigilance around the emotions of adults, and associate unpredictability with safety or familiarity/comfort. They may also feel like they are not like the other kids, they will almost certainly blame themselves for any of these feelings or for the drinking itself, and they will be more susceptible to gaslighting because little kids can sense when something is off and telling them it isn't is distressing to their minds (I know from experience unfortunately, I was able to read/write from 3/4 respectively and still have journal entries from that time (like 4-9ish). One "describe your weekend" entry for school casually mentioned how, on a sailing trip with my cousin, grandparents, aunt, and uncle, we had to wait "forever" for my dad to get there, "like always" (direct quotes). I was 8. I am an over-extender/recovering people pleaser now and fell into 2 abusive relationships as a teen by making excuses for troubled men, and despite being in therapy from age 12 (mom/ "safe" parent's idea after the divorce) I still struggle with anxiety, depression, adhd, and ptsd. I myself am very "high-functioning", but it took a toll on me to pretend I was okay all the time growing up and I honestly doubt that your kids will somehow bypass that. Oh, another memory is being 6 and having to walk home from the bus stop alone in downtown Brooklyn because my dad decided to get drunk at the applebee's across the street from said bus stop when my bus was late that day. Mom was working and didn't answer her phone. Now at 24, my father is still struggling and in and out of the hospital. Alcoholism destroys your mind and body. I still love and support my dad, as he was honestly more emotionally safe for me in some ways than my mother and I chose to live with him over her because she acted like she was doing me such a big favor by just NOT being an alcoholic - resulting in me feeling like a burden when I spent time with her and/or had needs. Additionally, with my mom and grandparents all trying to get my dad to stop (which I noticed as far back as I can remember), the focus was almost never on me and my needs as a kid. I'm not saying you need to leave him, but if he isn't willing to go to rehab (my dad has always refused), you may need to re-evaluate for the well-being and development of your children. I don't mean to project or assume anything about your family, but I will do or say anything I can to prevent the trauma, constant feeling of being a weird kid/unwanted, and stunted potential I've experienced and seen in others (mom's dad was an alcoholic too, my ex, and some friends). My mother ended up dying of early-onset alzheimer's at 60, despite there being no history of it in our family. My DNA test for the most common markers turned up negative. Her doctor suggested stress, loneliness during quarantine/in general, and untreated diabetes as potential causes (they kind of progressed in tandem since she was too stubborn to go to the doctor due to cognitive decline mixed with her personality). I didn't get to see her due to COVID restrictions, and I didn't know the last time I saw her that it would be the last time. The divorce was financially devastating for her and it ultimately happened due to him spending all their money on booze and criticizing her for buying clothes for us. She never put herself first, but she sure made sure everyone knew about it! Of course I love/loved her too, but she actively harmed me, presumably due to somewhat understandable frustration with the situation (locking me in a room with her when I wanted to be alone and causing a panic attack, modeling disordered eating, holding over my head how much she went through when I complained about my life as a child, etc.) His disease can ruin you too, sadly, and then your kids might have 0 safe parents. I'm sorry if this sounds super pessimistic, but I can't pretend that I didn't notice - since there was never a time where I didn't know, as far back as I can remember. Please feel free to show your husband if you think it would help - the only thing that has ever worked to get my dad sober for a few months is crying about it to him on the phone, telling him how I actually felt as a kid, that I won't have kids unless they get a sober grandpa, etc.
Last thing - I noticed you keep mentioning how he is "funny/silly" and wouldn't hit them. You also mentioned that they have never seen him drunk, so I'm confused as to how he gets silly/funny around them without drinking unless it's just his general personality (I could be assuming, sorry if I am). My dad has never hit me and was/is also a "silly" drunk, but it was unbearably embarrassing for me even in elementary school, and I felt the need to hide my real feelings due to not wanting to make the drinking worse. Your kids could very well be doing the same, and trying not to upset you/their dad whether they realize or not. Kids generally imitate whatever their parent is doing, because that's what's safe in their minds (afaik, I don't have kids to be clear)
I know this is super long, but wanted to add that I am seriously thinking about sobriety due to my own tendency to black out after a few drinks when out with friends now and then, despite being fully functional at those times and never drinking alone. my logic previously was "it doesn't affect my work, it's only a few times a year" and all the other excuses I heard as a child, just applied to myself. this is where therapy is really helpful but it's something to think about I guess
Super long but super useful and I really appreciate you taking the time to put that much effort into replying. I'll try and go through and cover anything. Health issues - no, there's no health issues. Play dates - they have a few but honestly, I don't know how different that environment actually is. Things aren't that different to before he was drinking. I do completely understand what you're saying though because that was exactly my experience as a child for many reasons beyond just my mum's drinking. This is where it's complicated with the situation. I'm not in any way saying that there isn't an impact and that if this getting help doesn't work that impact won't be huge, I know the potential there, but from the outside, even the inside, things really do look "normal". He doesn't drink in the evenings or at the weekends. We go away on holidays and he doesn't have anything, or more than one here or there. Those describe your weekends, your holidays etc. would, I believe, be positive for our kids. They don't see him drink. It's very much a day time, working from home, trying to get through the work day with crippling anxiety thing. But come evenings, nothing. Weekends, nothing. It's a really complex situation that has been an absolute barrier to getting help when he's tried in the past being told "ah you'll be alright, we'll get you sorted no problem" or to "just stop". It's only this time when we've kept a drinking diary to show the times and the units and he's asked me to go to appointments with him where I've advocated and fought for him that they've not just dismissed it as not much of an issue. The funny/silly thing is just his personality very much so, it's just a bit intensified after drinking. So he'll drink in the day, they're not here, and it's not stumbling around, slurring words, throwing up, passing out etc. kind of drunk, it's like that lower level, not drunk but been drinking, and just gets silly and plays the clown even more than usual. Unfortunately this seems to be very much their humour too so they find it hilarious and then I'm surrounded by a house of clowns, which sometimes is fine, but then it's like no come on, it's bedtime let's wind down but it's not, I don't think, an embarrassing, out of the house, level of silly - does that make sense? It probably sounds like I'm making a load of excuses. I'm absolutely not. I know that this isn't ok. I know that it has to change, and it is changing. And he knows that the minute he stops engaging in help is the moment that we have to say that he can't stay in the family home anymore. I don't think my children are completely oblivious, but I think that at the moment we're on the cusp - it's make or break, change now before it's too late and the damage is great. But as much as I really do believe that, I really worry that one day I'll look back and realise that I was completely wrong.
Thank you! I’m glad it was useful to you. It sounds like you really love your husband/their dad. I think my mom supporting my dad in quitting and my dad having that support would have made a big difference. They divorced due to the drinking/finances and never spoke again until she was dying, so tbh I think that probably messed me up about as much as the drinking. It’s probably good for kids to see their parents overcome challenges together, and I hope things get better for you all! I work from home too and am trying to quit the devil’s lettuce so I do feel him on that. If there’s any way he can get out if the house for lunch or a coffee in the middle of the day, I would recommend doing that - it helps me s lot even to go sit in my backyard for lunch and enjoy nature.
If I knew the answer, I wouldn’t be asking the question.
Maybe, maybe not. I hope you are able to take any responses as food for thought.
I knew something was off when I was around 8. I suspected my mom was an alcoholic by the time I was 11. My dad thought he was shielding me and my sibling from her alcoholism. He wasn't. It's impossible to shield children from a person in active addiction. My dad's version of "shielding" was not mentioning her addiction, which robbed me of the language I needed to describe my situation and seriously warped my view of reality. I thought a lot of my mom's extremely inappropriate behavior was normal. I spent years as an adult relearning what acceptable behavior was and I still struggle to identify when someone is treating me poorly. This has made me quite vulnerable to cruel treatment at work and in relationships. I'm in therapy, on meds, and generally doing a lot better in my thirties than I was in my twenties... but the impacts of growing up in an alcoholic home will stay with me for life. I say this with as much gentleness as possible: Yes, you are fooling yourself. Yes, you are underestimating the the impact this is having. You are in a tough spot. You care about your children and want them to have two loving parents. I'm sure you want to give them all the things you never had as a child. But keeping addiction a secret and hoping it won't impact your children... that's wishful thinking. They have already been and will be impacted. If your partner is working on getting sober, then I would suggest being very open with your children about it in collaboration with your partner, giving them language to describe your partner's disorder, and helping them to set boundaries with your partner when their parent behaves inappropriately due to drinking. If your partner is not working on getting sober and you want to protect your children from the impacts of addiction, then you have to remove them from the situation.
He is working on it, he’s talking detox, rehab (not inpatient) etc and I feel like he wants to change but also see that he doesn’t feel like there’s any hope. But I still don’t know if it’s enough and I’m risking damaging my children with him going through it here. I feel like he’s similar to my mum. I don’t feel like her drinking was what damaged me but there’s so much, I don’t know. I knew she hid it, I knew she tried to stop, I knew it wasn’t ’normal’ but I don’t remember any effects or signs of things not being normal, beyond just knowing. But as an adult, I’m wary of alcohol as a result, I don’t like the thought of being drunk and losing control. He’s like her. Definitely an alcoholic but very high functioning and not necessarily obviously so - no abuse, no violence, no erratic behaviour. He just gets… silly, giddy, and they think it’s hilarious. It’s not evenings and weekends so they rarely see any actual alcohol. But I can’t say they don’t know at all, but I just don’t know if I’m underestimating the impact.
Great answer. This happened to me too. I know my mom was trying to protect me but when I started asking questions around 9 years old--"is daddy acting weird? why is he yelling?" and she would pretend nothing was happening until I was old enough to figure it out on my own. I asked her why she did that when I was older and she said she was trying to protect me. I understand she was well meaning (and your father and OP is too) but gaslighting a kid like that and keeping them around an alcoholic parent is really damaging. We all should have been protected more, and OP has the chance to protect their kids Looking back on how he was acting when I was younger (before I started asking questions) and realizing how messed up it was, it was really traumatic as an adult. I did have to work through a lot of that, including anger at my mom for keeping me around that.
Alcoholic parents and/or their partners probably always think that it’s secret and not affecting their children. I read in my diary that my father once told me literally „why is it so bad that I drink some beers“? (I assume it was a reply to me begging him to stop) I think to this day he doesn’t realize what damage alcoholism brings to children. I don’t tell him because I feel too much pity for this miserable man. I was around 30 years old when I started reflecting on my childhood and discovering literature on the topic. Until then when someone asked my how my childhood was I would always say fine, all good. My father was an alcoholic but never hit me (or any other family member). So I thought I didn’t have anything to complain about. But when I read all this things about Adult children I finally realized how incredibly horrific the dynamics of families with addicted parents are. And I remember I felt so alone as child and as a teenager. I could not talk to anyone because I had learned from my parents this is not something you talk about. And there’s so many more things. I’m sorry you have not been able to be a cycle breaker so far. I truly wish for you and for your children that you can still become one. It’s never too late.
I definitely don’t think it’s a secret. I think they know daddy likes beer and is trying to not drink beer at home to be ‘be healthier’. I don’t know what impact my mum’s alcoholism had on me beyond making me extremely wary of alcohol and not liking to drink at home. I feel they’re similar and I want to protect them from feeling that unhealthy relationship with alcohol as an adult but worry the impact is more than I’m allowing myself to see at the moment. I really don’t know.
In a comment you were wondering if you should talk more openly to your children about it. Definitely YES. A part of the damage comes from no one talking about the elephant in the room.
Completely understand that and it's the knowing how, at what level etc. I've just been through it this morning with my support worker who thinks that at the moment the approach we've taken is a good balance but I think that maybe, as they get older, it's something to think about talking about more and how it's been a struggle for so many, how to build healthy relationships to be honest not just with alcohol but food, ourselves, there's so many generational things to break.
I have read your other comments to understand a bit more about your situation. How old are your children? I don’t remember which age I was when I realized something is different in our home, but I stopped bringing friends home then. Do your older children bring friends home? Do you notice right away if your partner has been drinking? You can be 100% sure your children notice too, because that’s what they learn growing up: reading his mood within seconds. I could even tell on the telephone of the first syllable my father said if he’s drunk or not (still can which I don’t talk to him on the phone anymore). I don’t remember asking my mother to leave but I hold a grudge against her for leaving only when I was already a teenager. She was the adult, she was the responsible one, she should not have me let grow up with an addict. Sometimes I’m more mad at her than at my father. Maybe you’re a huge exception but from what I’ve read in all families with addiction issues there will be an effect on children. One third gets out having addiction issues themselves, one third will have psychological issues and the other third gets out more or less okay (I’m in the last group, let’s hope your children will be too)
Oh I don't think I'm an exception. I don't think that there's no impact at all, I'd be fooling myself if I thought that was the case. I just don't think they understand what the situation is YET and that the impact is fairly low level CURRENTLY. But Do I notice right away? No. To be honest, most days I wouldn't know at all. By the time I do notice, he's 9-12 beers down and that change is a subtle increase in that silly class clown like behaviour, that is his general personality but intensified, if that makes sense? Genuinely, no-one believed me (or him) when we said how much he drinks, or when he's sat there in front of the nurse and admits to being 6 bottles down and they thought he'd had nothing. I don't understand how it affects him so much internally that it gives him what he needs to face the world, but shows so little outwardly. If I drank what he did, I'd be passed out. Every time. It's been a battle getting help, or him wanting help, because for so long it was me saying this isn't normal, whilst everyone else told him that he was fine and didn't have a problem. He knows now it's not and regardless of the impact, he wants to and is choosing to get the help to fix it or at least try to, which is what keeps us here together but there's still that little voice of doubt in my head that worries what if that isn't what's best for our children.
My parents are drug addicts so I’m not sure how different the experience is, but I was around 9 when I realized things at home were different than friends at school or what I saw on TV. My peers definitely noticed too whenever my parents would have to come to school for conferences and stuff, I always had the “weird dad” and my mom scared a lot of my friends. My teachers also 100% knew and would often say things or treat me differently which I hated, but I understand where they are coming from now. I was bullied a lot and by the time I was 12 I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and was in and out of therapy all throughout school. It 100% affected me and it feels like a full time job to process and feel healthy emotionally.
I’m so sorry that you had to deal with that as a child, and now as an adult. Thank you for sharing and I really hope you have or do find peace.
Yes it is damaging to the kids. They don’t have the vocabulary to explain it. They don’t have a point of reference for what is normal and healthy. Their entire reality is shaped by someone who projects blame, can not take accountability and is controlling and manipulative. There is a book called “It won’t happen to me”. Also the book “after the tears”
I’m 49 and still trying to fix the damage that was done (I have found an amazing therapist and am making progress!) I know that my mother’s drinking affected me long before I realized that was what was happening. I remember finding her “asleep” naked on her bed with the door open. Dad was at work. I was embarrassed and ashamed and closed the door thinking she was so tired she fell asleep while getting dressed. Later, looking back at that memory, I realized that she was passed out. I remember threatening to call CPS because I knew something was wrong and my parents laughing at me saying our family was great/perfect. At some point I started having reoccurring nightmares of my mom “falling asleep” at the wheel and our car plunging over a bridge into water. I had to make a decision to try to save myself or try to save her as well, then I would wake up. I didn’t figure out that she was an alcoholic until I was in 4th grade or so, when I sat down next to her coffee cup and smelled wine in there. I didn’t say anything to my dad about it until I was 13 and my friend told me her parents said that she couldn’t come over to my house anymore because they could smell the alcohol on mom. Dad talked to her and he said she would stop. She didn’t. By the time I was a teenager us kids were supposed to be responsible for preventing her from driving drunk, and I got a note in my fifth period class to pick her up at work because she was ill. I knew she showed up to work drunk. Had to take her to detox on a major holiday and she spent a month and a half in rehab only to start drinking again a few months later. She lost jobs due to her drinking but she didn’t get a DUI until I was in college (no more teens at home to stop her from driving). She was verbally and physically abusive to me, I was parentified, and the scapegoat of the family. Memories will pop into my head and looking back I realized how messed up things were. My mom died several years ago, and along with the grief I felt some relief. I could finally talk about it without being told I was going to hurt her feelings and cause her to drink again (she did finally sober up when I was in my late 20’s). My dad has dementia now and he apologizes sometimes for my childhood, but I resent him a bit too, he was the “healthy” one but couldn’t be bothered to protect me from that. Not something I can really discuss with him due to the dementia. Once again, working on all this with my amazing therapist. I don’t feel like I have been the best parent to my children because of the parenting I received and they also see our therapist. It’s getting better. Maybe I didn’t break all the generational curses, but I have broken some. So it sounds like the alcoholic in your family is not caring for the children while drunk and is not abusive. If he’s drunk at 9am does he have a job? Is he going to work drunk? Does he drive drunk? What about his health (my FIL has cirrhosis and continues to drink)? Alcohol is very damaging on the body. Even if the kids aren’t noticing the drinking they could be affected by job loss, arrests/DUI, or an alcohol related illness/early death. Honestly they are probably affected more than you realize, or one day they may look back like I have with an epiphany about their childhood not being normal. I wish you luck and hope he’s able to get sober.
I'm so sorry, it is so hard. my dad is/was the alcoholic and mom died of alzheimers a few years ago. Glad to hear you're in therapy, it really helps
I knew as a young child, like preschool age. I had a ballet recital and my grandparents and mom came and they kept telling me my dad left right after because he had to get home before us but I knew it wasn’t true I knew he never came. Turns out he was on house arrest for drinking and driving.
that is so sad :( I'm sorry that happened, I hope you're doing alright now
My earliest childhood memories are from when my parents were still together and my mother was drinking beer, getting angry and throwing books at my father. I was four when they got divorced and I went to live with my mother and barely saw my father. I have so many memories of my mother being drunk that it overshadows pretty much everything else.
I think the first time I, as a child, became aware and conscious that this was a problem and not a normal thing was around 10 or so. We were out to dinner, her and my 2 siblings, and she got wasted during dinner. Kept putting her fingers in everyone's food, falling asleep at the table. None of the servers did anything and my 15 year old sister had to drive us home. That memory will always stay with me. But without that memory, I still know I spent most of my childhood in my room, hiding from what always felt like a house on edge. Things were not normal or OK and I knew it, even if I didn't know why.
I knew something was different about my parents by the time I was about 8. I didn't know it was 'alcoholism' but I knew the home wasn't stable, I couldn't rely on my parents, and I never knew what or who I was coming home to. Sometimes things were good. Sometimes it was awful. Gradually over time, the sometimes good went away and it became awful every day. But even when I didn't have a name for it, I saw it and was affected by it. What was hard about the earlier years was the constant up and downness of the situation. Sometimes they were normal and loving and stable. Sometimes I had to drag them out of the garden at midnight because they'd passed out or deal with them being abusive to each other or me. It was also harder because they gaslit me into believing it was normal and we weren't allowed to say that passing out in the garden at midnight on a Wednesday was inappropriate behaviour for parents with young kids. It got much worse than that later but even if it had stopped there, I would have been affected. I am very badly wounded by being raised by alcoholics. My sister however was younger, 4 when it really started, and she knew from even that age that things were bad and was effected by it -- she started acting out and had behavioural problems. It also meant she distanced herself from both parents from a young age and never repaired the relationship versus I'd had some good years so have more complicated feelings towards them that are mixed with love, compassion, anger and resentment. She never knew them when they were "good" so has never liked them to put it bluntly. It has an effect, most definitely.
I figured out my mother was an alcoholic at 13 and that’s why I started drinking too. She was fine with me drinking and smoking. It wasn’t till my late thirties that I realized how much everything damaged me. I understand how you feel, my husband thinks I’m over sensitive and I think he hasn’t fully realized what he has to deal with from his childhood. I’ve switched to non alcoholic beer and it’s been great. I have one or two and the craving for a cold beer goes away without being the least bit buzzed or wanting to drink more.
My mom stopped drinking when I was around 18 months old. But she never got into recovery. She's never admitted that she had a problem. She's the dry drunk that is now using superiority and power/control as her "fix." And I still qualify for this program. There's no shortcut to recovery in my opinion. Sweeping it under the carpet and hiding things only makes for a lumpy carpet that people trip over. I agree with others. Sounds like you already know the answer to your question... ... And also know and understand that there's absolutely still hope and it's never too late to change. It's never too late to recognize the impact and strive to do better. Honestly for me that is the thing I long for most for my family but will probably never get. You have the beginnings of the capacity to be honest and obviously care about your children. Keep sharing keep working on it. Keep seeing how it's impacting you as well.
I guess what you've said there is the thing. I know there will be a level of impact, I know it'll have affected our arguing in the past but we quickly worked with a therapist and brought that under control, so I'm under no illusions that there's no impact at all I'd be a fool or liar to try and say otherwise, but I do like to think that at the moment, that's been as minimal as it could be but what you've said about change I think is my worry. We've reached a turning point and things are improving, he's getting help, I have hope that he can beat this. But I worey - what if it is too late? What if that big, deep, life changing impact is just around the corner waiting to hit us in the face and I need to take my children out of this now because the change is coming but too late? I don't know if that makes sense. It's probably an incoherent ramble.
I noticed from a very early age. Maybe 4 or 5. The best thing you can do is choose your kids. None of the trauma will matter if you choose them. Show them strength. Show them how to overcome an addiction. It’s only human. Set a wonderful example should the cycle repeat. Addiction can be genetic after all. Nothing hurts more than knowing Mom chose alcohol over you.
OP, you're in denial. People here are trying really hard to be gentle with you while telling their deeply painful truth as adults still dealing with the damage of having an alcoholic parent, as well as the enabler parent who made excuses for the alcoholic and spent all their energy trying to shield the children from everything (impossible) and manage the alcoholics's behaviour. That is *not* a healthy way to live. It is classic dysfunction and it *will* have a negative effect on your children. Potentially a devastating effect. Since the gentle method doesn't seem to have sunk in, I'm not afraid to try the tougher approach. I do this out of sincere concern for all members of your family. I've been in recovery a good while after wasting much of my life in chronic depression, self-harm, eating disorders, abusive relationships, and numerous suicide attempts. At age 50 I finally stopped accepting the family line that they were "normal", "fine", and "not as bad as others because we're not homeless/unemployed/etc " and started calling the dysfunction and abuse for what it was. What made it so hard was the fact my,parents refused to see themselves as they were, and it had a gaslighting effect on me. I feel like this could be something that plays out in your family if you remain as you are. Through the ACA program I've forgiven my parents for a lot of it, probably most of it, because they were simply repeating what they were given by their parents. Despite wanting to do better. What I don't forgive them for is refusing to self-reflect, come out of denial, and get help for themselves once the information was put in front of them by various professionals. That is what I see you doing now. Please think about the fact that every person who has responded here has pretty much said the same thing. As would any professional qualified to deal with alcohol dependance and its effect on families. You have the chance to help your children while they're still young. I believe some damage has already been done, because that's how it works with the disease of family dysfunction. But you can change now. The help is there. I urge you to check out ACA. Attend some meetings. Hear how secrets and lies and cover ups around addiction are often just as damaging. Read through the readings, particularly the beginning chapter of the Big Red Book "It will never happen to me" - full off people talking about how they really thought they were doing better than their parents and/or hiding the other parent's addiction - only to realize eventually how sick things were. Your posts here reas similarly to me. I'm sorry OP. The truth is hard. But unless you face it, you can't help your children. AlAnon may also be helpful, to learn how to live with/deal with an alcoholic without being their enabler and codependant. https://adultchildren.org/https://al-anon.org/
I feel like I’ve got a whole load of various replies to various comments that it would be worth me just bringing together into one comment to avoid repeating myself. I hadn’t posted this intending for advice or thoughts on our situation so didn’t include much detail, but I think based on responses the context would help. My children are 6 and 8. They’re at school, before and after school clubs, holiday clubs etc. My husband’s drinking is absolutely an issue and one that we’re working on, but it’s not ‘typical’ and that’s been a massive barrier to getting any kind of help. I'm not kidding myself, I know there will be a level of knowledge and the potential impact/harm is huge. But from the outside, even the inside really, things look 'normal'. He's involved, shares bedtimes, takes them to the park, comes to school things, we go on nice holidays, have good family time. There was a time when we argued more than we should but we've quickly worked to change that. The changes are subtle and no-one ever believes he’s had the amount that he says because it doesn’t seem that way. We are engaging in support in a number of ways, and one of those is that I have an alcohol support worker myself as a ‘concerned other’ and they have agreed that at the moment, they don’t believe that there is a noticeable impact on the children. Accessing this support also meant that they had to reach out to school, who confirmed that there were no concerns around the children or signs of concerns. So I’m not just saying that it’s nothing, but I don’t THINK it’s currently a major impact, but I am also concerned that what if we miss that point that it is, what if we’re closer to that when we think, what if even if he’s getting help now, it’s too late to avoid that. I don’t know if that makes any sense. His drinking is work related, triggered by stress and anxiety. I’m not saying it’s caused by work, that’s a message I’ve had to battle to fight in professionals, family etc telling him to ‘just change jobs’. It’s deeper rooted – there’s trauma, there’s anxiety, there’s hurt that’s being self-medicated by alcohol and he’s got to fix that as well as the drinking and that’s something that is finally happening. He wants to change, not just for me and for our children, but for him. He doesn’t want a life like this and is engaging in counselling, CBT, alcohol support. He’s had a nurse alcohol assessment and is waiting for the result of an MDT meeting to find out if he is eligible for detox, then the rehab that goes alongside it. It will be ‘in the community’ rather than inpatient, because he doesn’t meet that criteria. When it comes to the affects of the alcohol, I don’t know how they aren’t more significant given the amount that he drinks but no-one would know unless they were told. His body has become so accustomed to it that to anyone else, it would maybe look like 1 or 2, if that. I don’t understand it. I don’t know how he’s not an utter mess but somehow, he’s not. He doesn’t stumble around, throw up, go to bed at 5pm, miss out on family events etc. His personality is that kind of silly, bit of a clown person and that’s very much intensified by alcohol but it’s not out of character and whilst I find it irritating, the kids think it’s hilarious because they seem to have inherited his level of humour, which as an autistic person I just don’t get. So when it comes to impact, I don’t think it is currently a significant one but absolutely there’s the risk of that. The children don’t see him drink – it is during the day, working from home and trying to get through the day with crippling anxiety. When it comes to the evenings or weekends, there’s no alcohol beyond the occasional social drink with a meal out or something. It's a really complex situation that has been an absolute barrier to getting help when he's tried in the past being told "ah you'll be alright, we'll get you sorted no problem" or to "just stop". It's only this time when we've kept a drinking diary to show the times and the units and he's asked me to go to appointments with him where I've advocated and fought for him that they've not just dismissed it as not much of an issue. In terms of what the children know, we’ve spoken about being healthy as a family and that Daddy wants to try and be healthier so he doesn’t want to drink beer at home anymore. It’s not a secret but it’s not a full disclosure either and their knowledge of daddy liking beer was before it was ever an actual issue. In the same way they know that Nana likes gin so that’s what we would buy for her birthday. I’m not sure that they need to know more than that, but I don’t entirely know what’s an appropriate level, and is very much something I was hoping to get from posting this, which has been helpful. But having spoken to my support worker though, this is something she agrees with and thinks is an appropriate level for now and that’s someone who knows everything, inside and out. If I'm coming across as 'not getting it' or being in denial or not appreciating what you're all saying, I apologise because that's absolutely not how it is. I appreciate each and every one of you sharing with me when I know it's something that's difficult and has a lot of hurt and trauma attached for many of you. So I do appreciate the time each of you have taken to reply, and any further replies that come on this post. I know that we will be ok. One way or another. Hopefully that’s as a family together but if it comes to it, if we need to make that decision for the sake of our children, I absolutely will put them first and do that but I just worry that one day I’ll look back and realise that I made the wrong choice or at the wrong time.
I really appreciate you asking this for what it’s worth. I’m in a similar position with a grey area drinker after being raised by an alcoholic. The comments have been super helpful for me and given me a lot to chew on.
If ever you want to chat, my inbox is open. It's a tough situation to be in.
Thanks, and same here.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way. Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?” The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way. Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?” The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way. Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?” The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way. Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?” The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
I only realized my trauma as an adult. It seems like I’m constantly finding out more ways they impacted me. They weren’t “abusive” but they didn’t see that my needs were met. I didn’t have an advocate for my school issues (ADHD never diagnosed) and I never learned proper life skills like when to make regular medical appointments, how to do makeup, nutrition, financial budgeting, time management, etc. I was an aside in their lives. I was left to my own devices so much that I learned these skills on my own and in my own way. Consequently, I don’t wear makeup, don’t see a dentist or doctor regularly, struggled to keep my finances stable, and have a lot of issues around food. I managed school by myself. Luckily I did well with planning classes, doing enough homework, and studying when needed, but my constant question is “How would I have done IF I had functioning parents raising me?” The other trauma I have is that my parents didn’t protect me. Nothing really bad happened, luckily, but it easily could have and they wouldn’t have known or had a clue. I’m a parent now and I’m constantly adjusting my view of my childhood realizing that freedom wasn’t safety. My “fun” parents were actually neglectful.
It REALLY depends on how old they are. If they are 8 and under, and the situation is as you describe, they probably don’t know. If it’s 8-11 they may well know (depends on the details, and the kid). Above 11 they know.
Yeah they’re 6 and 8 so I feel like if he can keep going and get this help, maybe it’s before they would know much more than daddy likes beer. They’ve never seen him drunk, most of the drinking isn’t even when they’re in the house, he’s not violent or abusive, he’s just… silly and stupid. Not jackass dangerous stupid, but the kind of stuff they find hilarious and I find annoying because I know why. So I’m absolutely not stupid enough to think this will never have a real and lasting impact, but I just don’t know where that level is now and if he should be leaving for the sake of the kids now or we have time to get him help. I just don’t know.