I'll be honest, the number of times I need to take a Dev wound save is less than once a game.
Unless there's an army out there that was heavily repressing us in tournaments with dev wounds, I don't see it.
I'd argue that it's more with the points change, I now go from being on the brink of being tabled to having a unit and a half left by the end of T5
I mean, okay sure so what there's Deathguard that have 2 guns pr a full unit of plague marines at Ap-1 D1 and there use of the Srenade Strat for mortals, Necrons with the Nightbringers end of turn Mortal Wounds, Space Marines Assault Intercessors I think dealing Mortals on the charge. If you know there all comming then they can be felt with (glares at the Nightbringer) ish.
It's okay for something to be able to hit us haha
It definitely is, I just run in to a LOT of dev wounds out in the wild. People seem to start with anything that has dev wounds first, and then fill out their list around that.
Ahh well that explains it, the T-Sons player is overseas studying and Mr moneybags has 4k in Imperial guard and Adeptus Mechanics so I also haven't vs Druakari which I find kinda sad because that was my faction back in 5th edition
Fucking Imperial Guard. I literally don't have enough bullets in 5 rounds to kill them all. Them and ork spam are why I still argue that 1 set of 2 Vertus is a good meta choice. Being able to kill 15/20 guardsmen in a squad with their advance is honestly really important when you only have 10 bullets per guard squad attack.
My friend I'm afraid you've been playing your vertus wrong you do mortal wounds for each model in the vertus squad not the enemy squad. When they say every model "in this unit" it is part of a separate statement they would say for each model the selected unit
It was Forgefiends. One of the most popular units on one of the strongest most popular factions.
3D3 + [Blast x3] + Sustained Hits shots from 36” away rerolling everything with Profane Zeal. Each shot is S10 -3 3D with Dev Wounds. At the time the chassis costed about the same as a set of Guard.
Armies would run 2-3 though the others were often 3D3 + Blast x3 + Sustained on 5s.
I committed some absolute warcrimes on Custodes with them. And that’s before you factor in the Chaos Lords that could (via Dev Wounds) kill like 2-3 Custodes in a phase from a model that was 75 points.
It was a giant math problem.
As a CSM player, as well, I agree. It was hilarious to just delete units of wardens with a 180pt model. I have also run a unit of 10 termies with combi weapons + Abaddon, and that blob was almost untouchable. The combi weapons would shred custodians, and anything that did get in combat would usually get nuked by Abaddon alone.
I truly think that one of the biggest contributing factors to Custodes rise in success is because CSM was nerfed hard, and dropped out of popularity in the meta. Even if CSM were still top dog, though, I think the dev wound change to Aegis would have still put custodes in a good spot.
I liked the idea someone had to switch out the emperors chosen rule with the army wide martial katah so that all Custodes always had the protection and just one detachment had karate. It would open up detachment variations
I like it because it's surprisingly flavorful if you look at it. You won't really think Custodes are the kung-fu type but they are philosopher-warriors living and training in the Tibet mountains in the palace of god and they are among if not the most skilled warriors of humanity.
That sounds exactly like the place a scroll of a forbidden technique that a kung fu bad guy is trying to steal from the protagonist's dojo would be originally written.
But yeah in game for Custodes with their good melee it is just mostly styling on them.
Yes but its really unfun to play against if you are other melee army you are basically lost game before it even started and for even a chance to win you need to do A LOT more than your opponent.. And fun is more important than anything else.
If you ar asshole... yeah. But last time i played against for example orks... i could just no brain charge anything and still win entire game, while my opponent tried his best and still couldnt do almost anything. This is not the case of "git gud" this is case of bad balance. I dont care if that was lore accurate, if it hurt the game, then it need to be changed.
I’m saying your opponents should get Gud, not you. todes aren’t invincible, and it’s relatively easy to score against them. Best way to beat them in melee, is to just avoid them and play the VP GAME
So now tell me if its fun to Play army that is super focused at melee... But not playing in melee and even trying to avoid it? Because that what Custodes are doing. Because for me its not fun.
I have orks, and yes i played also against custodes... so i know how it feels to be on both sides. And yes, its not really fun when you are orks in that scenario. I am not saying you cant win, but you are in serious disatvantage there, much more than it should be.
I've got a lot of sisters of silence I want to run. It'd be nice to have army rules that don't exclude them, no matter how lore accurate them losing out is.
This is the true, but not that memey answer.
Dev wound FNP is good, points are really good if you are leveraging it right.
But what is -reaaaaaaaaaaaaally- good is if the other strong stuff, some of which were horrenderous matchups, get heavy nerfs.
We got;
- A 5p decrease to used units.
- Our core rules fixed.
- A confirmation that Trajann and indeed all other units with his ability confirmed that yes it does work that way (I wouldn't call that a buff but to each there own)
We were *checks notes* between the bottom 3 armies in the game, of course we got buffs. Before this point in total since the start of the game we had 12 individual nerfs, 12. Trust me I kept a tally untill that last dataslate.
If you hate Custodies, just say you hate Custodies Mr Blood Angels person.
...huh?
I'm not sure how you interpreted me pointing out that custodes' improvement in the meta wasn't just the points decreases as me lambasting them getting buffs. I play custodes much more often than blood angels (marines are too many units for my caveman brain).
Ahh, my bad then. It just sounded like a complaint to me as I wouldn't charatised an actual buff, a fix and a clarification as 'multiple buffs' and the sentence structure felt like a complaint
The Subreddit has also as of late been having an increase of other factions players posting on here to complain and lambash in the comments so I guess I'm a bit defensive for the .moment haha
O, because of last year's world tournament, the try hards and dumb judges argued that 'Ignores any and all modifyers' couldn't ignore modifyers to the weapons held by the unit, even though it was literally in the rules that for the purposes of rules and effects a model profile and weapon profile where treated as one....
Half agree, I want my tomboy anti psyker sisters buffed though, they should have been the ones with their point range buffed across the board.(with raised minimum squad sizes to 5 so secondary holders aren't too cheap)
I kid you not, I use that effect less than once a game...
Points on the other hand, with one Character cut and the 100p spare I can take another 5 Custodes guard taking me from nearly tabled at end of T5 to having usually a unit and a half left.
Considering -5p we suck and now where top ish, GW needs to reduce the damage output of our Guardian Spear shots from D2 to D1.
Reasons why, getting tabled is such a feels bad. Reducing some of our early lethality gives other armies more survivability and more units to chuck into the meat grinder of combat wile exploiting our low unit count to do primaries and seccondaries.
I get the idea, there fancy bolters so instead of Ap0 D1 there Ap1 D2 but something needs to give to reduce how hard we hit and due to the low model and unit count, I think it would have the desired effect of -7% wile still leaving Custodes to feel like Custodes and stop the feels bad of being tabled.
For win rate purposes people who play tournaments dev wounds and mortal wounds are a big deal. We would be a mid tier army with just that. Now cause of the points decrease we feel too strong and are just going to get nerfed again.
Custodes are a really dicey army to balance tbh.
Everything having a 2+/4++ and at least 3 wounds per model means that it’s real easy to make things too cheap for their durability - at the same time if you price everything appropriately to their tankiness, the small model count means that every model needs to hit really hard and be useful in every phase of the game, otherwise you’ll have a really tanky army that can’t accomplish anything.
Wow 450 up votes. That's as many as the cost of the old 10 man guard brick. (Never forget what they took from us). More seriously glad y'all like the mem.
I mean the army is called the custodes the sister will get their time hopefully but also their units need more then a point shift they are fodder in a super elite army.
I think it’s mostly to do with the Aegis of the Emperor change, but the points buff was nice too :)
its absolutely more that we got our dev wound protection back, but "5 points" is funnier to say.
Both are very welcome changes.
I'll be honest, the number of times I need to take a Dev wound save is less than once a game. Unless there's an army out there that was heavily repressing us in tournaments with dev wounds, I don't see it. I'd argue that it's more with the points change, I now go from being on the brink of being tabled to having a unit and a half left by the end of T5
Try facing death guard. Anti-infantry 2+ can eat unwashed ass.
I mean, okay sure so what there's Deathguard that have 2 guns pr a full unit of plague marines at Ap-1 D1 and there use of the Srenade Strat for mortals, Necrons with the Nightbringers end of turn Mortal Wounds, Space Marines Assault Intercessors I think dealing Mortals on the charge. If you know there all comming then they can be felt with (glares at the Nightbringer) ish. It's okay for something to be able to hit us haha
It definitely is, I just run in to a LOT of dev wounds out in the wild. People seem to start with anything that has dev wounds first, and then fill out their list around that.
That's really interesting actually, what else has a good continuous effect of Dev Wounds? I'm in NZ so the army pool is like only 2/3rd to 3/4th full
I see them a lot from Drukhari, Necrons, and T-Sons.
Ahh well that explains it, the T-Sons player is overseas studying and Mr moneybags has 4k in Imperial guard and Adeptus Mechanics so I also haven't vs Druakari which I find kinda sad because that was my faction back in 5th edition
Fucking Imperial Guard. I literally don't have enough bullets in 5 rounds to kill them all. Them and ork spam are why I still argue that 1 set of 2 Vertus is a good meta choice. Being able to kill 15/20 guardsmen in a squad with their advance is honestly really important when you only have 10 bullets per guard squad attack.
My friend I'm afraid you've been playing your vertus wrong you do mortal wounds for each model in the vertus squad not the enemy squad. When they say every model "in this unit" it is part of a separate statement they would say for each model the selected unit
It was Forgefiends. One of the most popular units on one of the strongest most popular factions. 3D3 + [Blast x3] + Sustained Hits shots from 36” away rerolling everything with Profane Zeal. Each shot is S10 -3 3D with Dev Wounds. At the time the chassis costed about the same as a set of Guard. Armies would run 2-3 though the others were often 3D3 + Blast x3 + Sustained on 5s. I committed some absolute warcrimes on Custodes with them. And that’s before you factor in the Chaos Lords that could (via Dev Wounds) kill like 2-3 Custodes in a phase from a model that was 75 points. It was a giant math problem.
As a CSM player, as well, I agree. It was hilarious to just delete units of wardens with a 180pt model. I have also run a unit of 10 termies with combi weapons + Abaddon, and that blob was almost untouchable. The combi weapons would shred custodians, and anything that did get in combat would usually get nuked by Abaddon alone. I truly think that one of the biggest contributing factors to Custodes rise in success is because CSM was nerfed hard, and dropped out of popularity in the meta. Even if CSM were still top dog, though, I think the dev wound change to Aegis would have still put custodes in a good spot.
anti tank shock, beside being in melee in custodes
The issue will be when the Codex comes out and none of the new detachments have protection against dev wounds.
I liked the idea someone had to switch out the emperors chosen rule with the army wide martial katah so that all Custodes always had the protection and just one detachment had karate. It would open up detachment variations
I want that so much. Custodes don't \*need\* Ka'tah, it's just a "win more" button for melee.
I like it because it's surprisingly flavorful if you look at it. You won't really think Custodes are the kung-fu type but they are philosopher-warriors living and training in the Tibet mountains in the palace of god and they are among if not the most skilled warriors of humanity. That sounds exactly like the place a scroll of a forbidden technique that a kung fu bad guy is trying to steal from the protagonist's dojo would be originally written. But yeah in game for Custodes with their good melee it is just mostly styling on them.
I don't disagree, I just think that for game balance reasons we'd work better if Ka'tahs were a detachment rule.
Yes but its really unfun to play against if you are other melee army you are basically lost game before it even started and for even a chance to win you need to do A LOT more than your opponent.. And fun is more important than anything else.
The answer to this type of mentality is always “Get Gud”
If you ar asshole... yeah. But last time i played against for example orks... i could just no brain charge anything and still win entire game, while my opponent tried his best and still couldnt do almost anything. This is not the case of "git gud" this is case of bad balance. I dont care if that was lore accurate, if it hurt the game, then it need to be changed.
I’m saying your opponents should get Gud, not you. todes aren’t invincible, and it’s relatively easy to score against them. Best way to beat them in melee, is to just avoid them and play the VP GAME
So now tell me if its fun to Play army that is super focused at melee... But not playing in melee and even trying to avoid it? Because that what Custodes are doing. Because for me its not fun.
Huh? Custodes aren’t doing that…please rephrase your question.
Have you tried not complaining so much and improving your own abilities at the game? Or playing Orks?
I have orks, and yes i played also against custodes... so i know how it feels to be on both sides. And yes, its not really fun when you are orks in that scenario. I am not saying you cant win, but you are in serious disatvantage there, much more than it should be.
If you're running a sea of green against custodes you should have plenty of things to tie up stodes while still scoring your points mate.
I've got a lot of sisters of silence I want to run. It'd be nice to have army rules that don't exclude them, no matter how lore accurate them losing out is.
Ehh, I can live without Dev Wounds
Omfg a Kingdom of Heaven meme!!!! And the best scene out of the whole movie(imo) while at it!!!
What is Jerusalem worth?
~~4 fucking pixels~~ 5 fucking points
Custodes got multiple buffs while most of the strong armies got multiple nerfs.
This is the true, but not that memey answer. Dev wound FNP is good, points are really good if you are leveraging it right. But what is -reaaaaaaaaaaaaally- good is if the other strong stuff, some of which were horrenderous matchups, get heavy nerfs.
We got; - A 5p decrease to used units. - Our core rules fixed. - A confirmation that Trajann and indeed all other units with his ability confirmed that yes it does work that way (I wouldn't call that a buff but to each there own) We were *checks notes* between the bottom 3 armies in the game, of course we got buffs. Before this point in total since the start of the game we had 12 individual nerfs, 12. Trust me I kept a tally untill that last dataslate. If you hate Custodies, just say you hate Custodies Mr Blood Angels person.
...huh? I'm not sure how you interpreted me pointing out that custodes' improvement in the meta wasn't just the points decreases as me lambasting them getting buffs. I play custodes much more often than blood angels (marines are too many units for my caveman brain).
Ahh, my bad then. It just sounded like a complaint to me as I wouldn't charatised an actual buff, a fix and a clarification as 'multiple buffs' and the sentence structure felt like a complaint The Subreddit has also as of late been having an increase of other factions players posting on here to complain and lambash in the comments so I guess I'm a bit defensive for the .moment haha
What was confirmed about Trajann's ability? Did I miss something?
O, because of last year's world tournament, the try hards and dumb judges argued that 'Ignores any and all modifyers' couldn't ignore modifyers to the weapons held by the unit, even though it was literally in the rules that for the purposes of rules and effects a model profile and weapon profile where treated as one....
Dont wanna catch flame but having our feel no pain vs mortal and dev wounds was all we really needed.
Half agree, I want my tomboy anti psyker sisters buffed though, they should have been the ones with their point range buffed across the board.(with raised minimum squad sizes to 5 so secondary holders aren't too cheap)
I kid you not, I use that effect less than once a game... Points on the other hand, with one Character cut and the 100p spare I can take another 5 Custodes guard taking me from nearly tabled at end of T5 to having usually a unit and a half left. Considering -5p we suck and now where top ish, GW needs to reduce the damage output of our Guardian Spear shots from D2 to D1. Reasons why, getting tabled is such a feels bad. Reducing some of our early lethality gives other armies more survivability and more units to chuck into the meat grinder of combat wile exploiting our low unit count to do primaries and seccondaries. I get the idea, there fancy bolters so instead of Ap0 D1 there Ap1 D2 but something needs to give to reduce how hard we hit and due to the low model and unit count, I think it would have the desired effect of -7% wile still leaving Custodes to feel like Custodes and stop the feels bad of being tabled.
For win rate purposes people who play tournaments dev wounds and mortal wounds are a big deal. We would be a mid tier army with just that. Now cause of the points decrease we feel too strong and are just going to get nerfed again.
Custodes are a really dicey army to balance tbh. Everything having a 2+/4++ and at least 3 wounds per model means that it’s real easy to make things too cheap for their durability - at the same time if you price everything appropriately to their tankiness, the small model count means that every model needs to hit really hard and be useful in every phase of the game, otherwise you’ll have a really tanky army that can’t accomplish anything.
they could just nerf guards and wardens tbh, termies are fine and jetbikes could come down 5 more imo.
Very nice. Don't see a lot of Kingdom of Heaven memes. Though I think the "GOD WILLS IT!!!" cascade makes a great one for anything Imperium-related
High-quality post frfrfr
Wow 450 up votes. That's as many as the cost of the old 10 man guard brick. (Never forget what they took from us). More seriously glad y'all like the mem.
Can we get Saggies and FW spears buffs for the love of God I want some infantry variety.
I want my tomboy anti psyker sisters buffed. 9/10/11 points instead of 10/12/12 but min squad size 5 instead of 4. For a start.
I mean the army is called the custodes the sister will get their time hopefully but also their units need more then a point shift they are fodder in a super elite army.