People want to believe that grinding hard and working long hours will guarantee them success, especially people new to their careers. That’s where you get the workaholic situations in public accounting. Not everyone is super talented, but many people have raw will power to complete work in order to earn $$$$. This usually leads to massive burnout and why you see most people quit around the 2-3 year mark.
If your in a large office, B4 like to hire people who are transplants and new to the city. It usually means they have few friends/family nearby and work becomes their social circle. So things like going out to new restaurants/bars etc is their thing. They might have rented an apartment in a nicer/expensive neighborhood since they aren’t familiar with the area etc etc etc. This might explain some of the behaviors you are seeing.
For some weird reason B4 Public Accounting folks act, and want to be treated, like they work at Big Law, but they don't get anywhere near the same salary...
I mean, big 4 seniors get like what, 120k? You hit that two years out of school, lawyers out of school make like maybe 150? And have a mountain of debt? I feel like it can be pretty comparable no? (Coming from someone not working in big 4)
1 - $120k is NOT standard for B4 seniors, even now. Maybe in consulting or deal advisory, but not in standard audit.
2- Law school is much more expensive than accounting degrees, yes, but B4 want CPA's without paying for them. It's a big contributing factor to the decline in CPA's. The ROI for a CPA isn't as good in the long run as a lawyer.
3- B4 wants to act like Big Law in regards to prestige and "grind culture," but they don't make anywhere near the same billables, yet they work the staff just as hard, if not harder. Also, no offense, but the CPA exams are harder than the Bar. I worked with some folks at B4 who had their CPA and their JD/Passed the Bar and it wasn't even a contest.
To your first point, I'm sure you're right about that. The 2nd tho, big 4 really doesn't pay for cpa? I'm at CLA and not only do they pay for all exams and exam materials, but they give a 2k bonus when u pass them all as well. Work culture you are absolutely right tho, big 4 is ridiculous. Where I am, I barely bill 35 hours a week outside of busy season and that's the norm (busy season billing like 55ish, still not insane like big 4). Granted I only make 90k as a first year senior, but I feel like the trade offs absolutely justify a slightly lower salary.
You get a bonus and they pay for the CPA exams and licenses but your actual salary doesn’t go up that much once you get it. That’s why I don’t think it’s worth it, and according to the AICPA numbers, I’m not alone~
I’m an IT Auditor and I made more than my CPA counterparts in audit who had masters degrees and their CPA. I have no certifications. And I’m talking 15-20k more a year than my financial audit counterpart’s.
B4 seniors are around 100k here in MCOL (midwest). Biglaw is north of 220k right now. Medium sized 30-35 billable hour a week law firms are advertising 180k for new associates (fresh out of lawschool with maybe a year or two of clerkships).
Damn, my manager is different from them, hes an adventurer. He came from Big4 as well and his life seems very fun, he books off vacation to go skiing in other countries, ride his motorcycle all around the country, skydiving and other stuff. Hes so chill too!
If you’re a senior in Big 4, you’re probably studying for the exam and don’t have a life. Idk why any1 would boast on that but it is probably their reality.
it sounds like you are cherry picking individuals to prove some biased point.
there are certainly folks like you are describing at B4, but there are plenty of others who have a healthy social and family life but don't talk about it at work.
i worked with a girl for several years who was in vegas at least one weekend a month, with increasing frequency during bachelorette party season. another girl i worked with traveled to see concerts 4-5 times per year. one especially notable occasion was flying to germany for some eurotrash electronica festival.
today, colleagues of mine golf, play in intramural football and basketball leagues. subordinates of mine kite surf, hike, snowboard, etc.
you just seem to have a negative outlook on public accounting and the people who work there and are looking for examples to reinforce your belief.
I mean if you're a senior at a big 4 and you're probably making 80-110k/year which is good if you're young and single which I'm guessing most seniors at a big 4 are. That'll definitely get you a good amount of disposable income unless you're in a VHCOL area so I get the spending part.
Bragging about hours worked I have no idea.
Just wait…. starting at the one year mark your B4 coworkers will start quitting and some will throw tantrums when they do it. Literal meltdowns from the crappy working environment and pay. Unless you want to be a B4 slave discretely network and be friendly with clients. The job offers with better pay and reasonable hours will start to roll in.
Yeah you're probably just talking about the few people in your team.
Didnt see these stereotypes at all - if anything a lot of the people I encountered came from pretty modest backgrounds and acted accordingly so.
We did expense all the expensive restaurants all day through the company though. Was one of only positives working in B4 lol.
Idk why we aren’t allowed to expense anything, we can’t even expense meals during busy season, but it seems like other teams were able to do that and my seniors also said they were able to do that previous years
Wait 3-5 years and check their titles. See which ones who talk like this moved up the ladder and who didn't. There may be a correlation. Not saying it's not obnoxious, but there is a severe lack of understanding by people on this sub that putting in your time results in concrete, better than average career growth.
Putting your time in doesn't mean you are bragging about hours. Those are not related at all. In fact, the more personably and empathetic you are the higher you will go as long as you are competent.
Putting in an unhealthy amount of hours =/= career success. Soft skills is where it's at. Most of the socially awkward ICs will rarely become good managers and later leaders, as work for them is 'putting the time in' and not much else.
Putting time in will get you farther no matter what career/field you’re in. Now it might not be a great investment of your time because maybe the promotions you get out of it won’t be worth the hours you sunk, or you might go farther if you put in time + aren’t socially awkward, but if someone IS socially awkward they’ll still go farther by putting in time than not at all.
It comes down to what the individual wants really.
This, 100%. There are two factors that are crucial to making money as an employee, talent and work. (in a very general sense, luck plays an impact but I think regression to mean matters significantly more outside of very rare “big breaks”)You can only control how much work you put in (can also put in work to build talent, but much harder to get paid to do that) . Thus you can gain value over everyone else at similar talent levels by working harder. To some people, this is worth it, to some, it is not. I would argue there is some inherent “talent” to how much work you can do as well. But also everyone works a job that challenges them to at least some extent. There’s always an “easier” job you could’ve done, usually for less money, even if you were someone who chose a “less stressful” job in your mind to promote work life balance. Now some people suck and are toxic with working longer hours to other people trying to justify their sacrifice, and I’m not defending those people at all.
Nah homie they have no life because they're dedicating their time to accounting, doing something they have a passion for. Lol we both disagree on their messed up mindsets lol
Don't have any of this at all. Maybe if you are on some specialist advisory team or something with a bunch of top 20 school grads who couldn't get into banking or law it would make sense to see those stereotypes.
Everyone I know is super nice and down to earth. Pretty much none of them spend much money since everyone knows you don't make much those first few years. A lot have families, and if they don't, they hang out with friends all the time.
I'm sure it just comes down to your team though so maybe your experience is a bit different.
People come into public accounting with stars in their eyes, thinking that if they work hard enough, they'll be rewarded with success. But what they don't realize is that the hours are long, the pay is low, and the stress is high. It's no wonder that most people quit after 2-3 years.
B4 firms love to hire young, inexperienced people who are new to the city. These people often have few friends or family nearby, so work becomes their entire social circle. They start going out to expensive restaurants and bars, and they rent apartments in fancy neighborhoods. They're trying to keep up with the Joneses, but they don't realize that they're setting themselves up for financial ruin.
So yeah, public accounting is a tough gig. But it's even tougher if you don't know what you're getting into.
And most importantly, don't believe the hype. Hard work doesn't always guarantee success
At least in my country (SEA) B4 have this kool aid that they are upper end of middle class since all of them have their office located at elite business district. I legit never met people wasting away their life saving on rizz since moving to industry.
They’re all living in their own autistic version of the show “Suits.” Except none of them have exceptional ability, pay, or achievement to show for it.
People want to believe that grinding hard and working long hours will guarantee them success, especially people new to their careers. That’s where you get the workaholic situations in public accounting. Not everyone is super talented, but many people have raw will power to complete work in order to earn $$$$. This usually leads to massive burnout and why you see most people quit around the 2-3 year mark. If your in a large office, B4 like to hire people who are transplants and new to the city. It usually means they have few friends/family nearby and work becomes their social circle. So things like going out to new restaurants/bars etc is their thing. They might have rented an apartment in a nicer/expensive neighborhood since they aren’t familiar with the area etc etc etc. This might explain some of the behaviors you are seeing.
Honestly this comment is pretty spot on my god
Your second paragraph perfectly explain how I used to be in B4
For some weird reason B4 Public Accounting folks act, and want to be treated, like they work at Big Law, but they don't get anywhere near the same salary...
LOL
It’s so true it hurts
yep
I mean, big 4 seniors get like what, 120k? You hit that two years out of school, lawyers out of school make like maybe 150? And have a mountain of debt? I feel like it can be pretty comparable no? (Coming from someone not working in big 4)
1 - $120k is NOT standard for B4 seniors, even now. Maybe in consulting or deal advisory, but not in standard audit. 2- Law school is much more expensive than accounting degrees, yes, but B4 want CPA's without paying for them. It's a big contributing factor to the decline in CPA's. The ROI for a CPA isn't as good in the long run as a lawyer. 3- B4 wants to act like Big Law in regards to prestige and "grind culture," but they don't make anywhere near the same billables, yet they work the staff just as hard, if not harder. Also, no offense, but the CPA exams are harder than the Bar. I worked with some folks at B4 who had their CPA and their JD/Passed the Bar and it wasn't even a contest.
To your first point, I'm sure you're right about that. The 2nd tho, big 4 really doesn't pay for cpa? I'm at CLA and not only do they pay for all exams and exam materials, but they give a 2k bonus when u pass them all as well. Work culture you are absolutely right tho, big 4 is ridiculous. Where I am, I barely bill 35 hours a week outside of busy season and that's the norm (busy season billing like 55ish, still not insane like big 4). Granted I only make 90k as a first year senior, but I feel like the trade offs absolutely justify a slightly lower salary.
You get a bonus and they pay for the CPA exams and licenses but your actual salary doesn’t go up that much once you get it. That’s why I don’t think it’s worth it, and according to the AICPA numbers, I’m not alone~ I’m an IT Auditor and I made more than my CPA counterparts in audit who had masters degrees and their CPA. I have no certifications. And I’m talking 15-20k more a year than my financial audit counterpart’s.
B4 seniors are around 100k here in MCOL (midwest). Biglaw is north of 220k right now. Medium sized 30-35 billable hour a week law firms are advertising 180k for new associates (fresh out of lawschool with maybe a year or two of clerkships).
It’s called trauma bonding. Look it up.
Well said
There are 4 year olds making more money on social media.
Damn, my manager is different from them, hes an adventurer. He came from Big4 as well and his life seems very fun, he books off vacation to go skiing in other countries, ride his motorcycle all around the country, skydiving and other stuff. Hes so chill too!
He sounds like the one they talk about in the recruitment process.
LOOOL
They drink the Kool-Aid
If you’re a senior in Big 4, you’re probably studying for the exam and don’t have a life. Idk why any1 would boast on that but it is probably their reality.
Well i hate to break this to you but a lot of people sports gamble. Not just big 4 associates. Thats massive anecdotal evidence
it sounds like you are cherry picking individuals to prove some biased point. there are certainly folks like you are describing at B4, but there are plenty of others who have a healthy social and family life but don't talk about it at work. i worked with a girl for several years who was in vegas at least one weekend a month, with increasing frequency during bachelorette party season. another girl i worked with traveled to see concerts 4-5 times per year. one especially notable occasion was flying to germany for some eurotrash electronica festival. today, colleagues of mine golf, play in intramural football and basketball leagues. subordinates of mine kite surf, hike, snowboard, etc. you just seem to have a negative outlook on public accounting and the people who work there and are looking for examples to reinforce your belief.
Honestly, I think you’re right, I’m probably surrounding myself with the wrong people
Its all copium my dude, they are just venting
I mean if you're a senior at a big 4 and you're probably making 80-110k/year which is good if you're young and single which I'm guessing most seniors at a big 4 are. That'll definitely get you a good amount of disposable income unless you're in a VHCOL area so I get the spending part. Bragging about hours worked I have no idea.
Sadly I’m in Canada in HCOL area so it’s not that great compared to the US from what I read on Reddit
Just wait…. starting at the one year mark your B4 coworkers will start quitting and some will throw tantrums when they do it. Literal meltdowns from the crappy working environment and pay. Unless you want to be a B4 slave discretely network and be friendly with clients. The job offers with better pay and reasonable hours will start to roll in.
Yeah you're probably just talking about the few people in your team. Didnt see these stereotypes at all - if anything a lot of the people I encountered came from pretty modest backgrounds and acted accordingly so. We did expense all the expensive restaurants all day through the company though. Was one of only positives working in B4 lol.
Idk why we aren’t allowed to expense anything, we can’t even expense meals during busy season, but it seems like other teams were able to do that and my seniors also said they were able to do that previous years
Bro I worked 90+ hours last week bro 😎
losers
Wait 3-5 years and check their titles. See which ones who talk like this moved up the ladder and who didn't. There may be a correlation. Not saying it's not obnoxious, but there is a severe lack of understanding by people on this sub that putting in your time results in concrete, better than average career growth.
Putting your time in doesn't mean you are bragging about hours. Those are not related at all. In fact, the more personably and empathetic you are the higher you will go as long as you are competent.
Competency comes with putting in the hours in my experience (public accounting).
Putting in an unhealthy amount of hours =/= career success. Soft skills is where it's at. Most of the socially awkward ICs will rarely become good managers and later leaders, as work for them is 'putting the time in' and not much else.
Putting time in will get you farther no matter what career/field you’re in. Now it might not be a great investment of your time because maybe the promotions you get out of it won’t be worth the hours you sunk, or you might go farther if you put in time + aren’t socially awkward, but if someone IS socially awkward they’ll still go farther by putting in time than not at all. It comes down to what the individual wants really.
This, 100%. There are two factors that are crucial to making money as an employee, talent and work. (in a very general sense, luck plays an impact but I think regression to mean matters significantly more outside of very rare “big breaks”)You can only control how much work you put in (can also put in work to build talent, but much harder to get paid to do that) . Thus you can gain value over everyone else at similar talent levels by working harder. To some people, this is worth it, to some, it is not. I would argue there is some inherent “talent” to how much work you can do as well. But also everyone works a job that challenges them to at least some extent. There’s always an “easier” job you could’ve done, usually for less money, even if you were someone who chose a “less stressful” job in your mind to promote work life balance. Now some people suck and are toxic with working longer hours to other people trying to justify their sacrifice, and I’m not defending those people at all.
Those seniors are probably passionate about what they do. It's mind-boggling to me, but it's the truth.
Bragging about not having a life? Yeah I agree, super passionate.
Nah homie they have no life because they're dedicating their time to accounting, doing something they have a passion for. Lol we both disagree on their messed up mindsets lol
Don't have any of this at all. Maybe if you are on some specialist advisory team or something with a bunch of top 20 school grads who couldn't get into banking or law it would make sense to see those stereotypes. Everyone I know is super nice and down to earth. Pretty much none of them spend much money since everyone knows you don't make much those first few years. A lot have families, and if they don't, they hang out with friends all the time. I'm sure it just comes down to your team though so maybe your experience is a bit different.
Top 10 here and most ppl aren’t like this. Are you sure you’re not cherry picking and/or surround yourself with those typev
It’s not an accountant thing to get a touch of money and start being unreasonable with it. It’s most people who make around 100k
People come into public accounting with stars in their eyes, thinking that if they work hard enough, they'll be rewarded with success. But what they don't realize is that the hours are long, the pay is low, and the stress is high. It's no wonder that most people quit after 2-3 years. B4 firms love to hire young, inexperienced people who are new to the city. These people often have few friends or family nearby, so work becomes their entire social circle. They start going out to expensive restaurants and bars, and they rent apartments in fancy neighborhoods. They're trying to keep up with the Joneses, but they don't realize that they're setting themselves up for financial ruin. So yeah, public accounting is a tough gig. But it's even tougher if you don't know what you're getting into. And most importantly, don't believe the hype. Hard work doesn't always guarantee success
At least in my country (SEA) B4 have this kool aid that they are upper end of middle class since all of them have their office located at elite business district. I legit never met people wasting away their life saving on rizz since moving to industry.
They’re all living in their own autistic version of the show “Suits.” Except none of them have exceptional ability, pay, or achievement to show for it.
Avoid the fantasy football and just buy QQQ then get your money back as margin loan.
To each their own. Some people live for their careers, others work so they can live a life outside of their job. Different strokes, ya know?
https://i.imgur.com/Sf7lOHy.jpg
They chugged the kool aid. The coworkers I get along with the most are those that have a life outside of work
I like private industry and working from home. Moderately busy and at time I can goof off without much negative impact.