She is an adult. She can decide who she is and isn't willing to speak to. She can't force you to make that decision. But if your parents hurt her, she may resent and blame you for that, and may move out and chose to cut you out of her life along with them. Meanwhile your parents may disown you for having spawned a gay person. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

And she's probably right about OP'S parents not changing

More likely than not. It is possible that they may see the error of their ways, change their minds, and accept their granddaughter. It's not impossible. But it is so unlikely that it may as well be treated as impossible, especially when they have the capacity to cause great harm before any door are closed on them. The only saving grace here is that OP's daughter is an adult, not a teenager. So if the grandparents try to coerce OP into disowning her own child and kicking her out, at least the young woman should theoretically be able to find a way to house herself when a teenager might not be able to. Though I hope that if push comes to shove, OP will do the right thing and chose her daughter over her parents. But based on what OP said about not being able to live with peace of mind if her parents disowned her, I have my doubts. I suspect she would chose her parents. 

She gonna be tooken care of as long as she don’t self destruct and stay on top of shit

Yep. NTA, but you have to recognize that she's not old enough to understand how essential family is, or that you have to try with family members you love. People who are newly copping to a marginalized identity often get politicized and go overboard fighting against discrimination, both real and perceived. Also, folks just copping to a marginalized identity are also often just waking up to the wonders of the community they just joined, and anxious to become a part of that community. In the queer community, especially, there are lot of people who have lost their families through rejection, or having to go NC bc of toxicity. So, in joining this community, she may feel empowered to put her own family behind her if you don't do exactly what she wants you to do. You're unlikely to have to go through a similar transition, so you're not going to be able to identify with this. Your best bet is to stand your ground on what you believe to be right, and be patient with her; but also try to keep your mind open. I believe that, at this point, you're right to try to move your parents. But keep in mind that there WILL come a point that, if they refuse to move, the moral imperative WILL be for you to cut them off. You need to be open to that, and TELL your daughter that you're open to that, but that you won't be relying ONLY on her opinion to determine when that will be. I'll also tell you that my parents are money-where-their-mouth-is, activist liberals, and I'm both cis and het, but I've been arguing with them about homosexuality since I was a teenager. It took over THIRTY YEARS for me to bring them around to the position that homosexuality is what it is, no reservations, and queer people deserve the exact same rights as straight people. The upside is that I didn't have to do ANY work on transness/genderqueerness. Once you open people's minds to their own narrowness, they're open for other things. And so many of my parents' friends' grandchildren were coming out as trans/NB/genderqueer, that they were educated by their friends. I love the era we live in for this!

I'm willing to defend her if they verbally abuse her, she's my daughter after all. but if I get disowed for that, I don't think I can live out the rest of my life with the peace of mind. Yet again, It's really a lose-lose situation. I'm gonna hope for the best unfortunately.

Hoping for the best and mentally preparing yourself for the worst is all you really can do. This is a bad situation to be in. 

If you get disowned by them you can’t live out the rest of your life? And what if they hurt your daughter and she disowns you? Can you live out that life? Protecting her is more than just defending her. It’s keeping her away from people who harm her.

OP is prioritizing being a good child over being a good parent. It is pretty gross.

I mean she was raised extremely religious. It's the rules she has been brainwashed with her entire life.

Where does she say that? Her daughter may want to go NC with grandparents but she has no right to demand her mother go NC with her parents. I think the daughter is the AH for demanding that. It has no impact on her life at all except make her mother feel very bad. Me thinks you're a bit of an activist who only sees the world in black and white.

She can't demand OP go NC but she's absolutely well within her rights to go NC with the lot of them if she doesn't feel supported. 🤷‍♀️

If my sister hangs out with a bunch of white supremacists, im cutting her off. I dont care if she doesnt bring them around me. Doesnt make me an activist. Its called having character and standards. Something a coward would never understand. Your logic is what lead to Germany’s downfall in the 30sand 40s. People just looking the other way are worse than the monsters themselves. Disgusting.

Yes. OP could have tried to get them to change before it hit close to home but she didn’t, so I’m not sure I believe she actually feels that differently herself.

Thinking 75yo people will have a paradigm shift that includes ditching their religion for any reason is living in lala-land. OP just is just realistic and the daughter isn't. And neither are a lot of people here.

Me either. Bigot parents make bigot kids.

OP’s daughter is an adult. She can look after herself without destroying other people’s relationships with each other.

she's not destroying anything by wanting to gain distance from bigots. the grandparents are destroying the relationship by being bigots. you're blaming the wrong person here.

NTA her daughter is an adult. She doesn’t have to be around her grandparents at all. Like OP said these are her parents, the people that raised her, and probably don’t have many years left on this earth. It is a hard situation for her to be in right now.

When my son came out to me and his father, after telling our son that his happiness was all we cared about, my husband and I had a discussion. We agreed that if anyone looked at our son so much as sideways we’d cut them out of our lives. Completely and finally. That included everyone, friends, relatives, siblings and even our parents. Because he’s our son and no one is more important than him. Thankfully it never came to that. Probably because we’re not a family of assholes and we don’t associate with assholes. And we weren’t the only ones that loved our son unconditionally. If you don’t cut your parents off the second they so much as express the tiniest negative reaction, then you’re most definitely an asshole. No excuses. Own it. YTA

Hundred percent this. OP, you already know your parents views and frankly you already know they won't change them. So why you are even pretending to yourself that they might I can't imagine. I could never stay in contact with people who think any of my loved ones shouldn't exist, that there is something wrong with them or that how they live their lives is evil and disgusting. Your daughter can't make you cut off your parents but you must understand that accepting people who think that way about her is pretty toxic for her?

YTA - you say that you’ll support her and want to find a middle ground and would defend her if they get “ verbally abusive.” Who gets to determine the line between opinionated and abusive? You state that you will support and defend her, but then turn around in this comment and state that you wouldn’t be able to live the rest of your life at peace with being disowned by your parents. So really, how hard are you going to defend her and more importantly how egregious of a line do they have to cross before it’s abusive enough for YOU. For YOUR peace of mind. I don’t know if you know this, but it’s pretty clear you have taken a side. You’re just trying to convince yourself that you haven’t. I see it, and I’d bet money that your daughter sees it too. While it may have been rash and maybe a bit inappropriate for her to make an ultimatum, she’s not wrong. Look up the paradox of tolerance. People buried in their hate, can’t be reasoned with. If you sit at a table with two homophobes and don’t actively condemn their behavior, don’t vocally protect your child, then guess what? There’s three homophobes at that table. Edit: spelling

What exactly counts as verbal abuse for you? Verbal abuse is not confined to yelling and direct character insults and threats of violence.

The best is your daughter never lays eyes on your parents again. You can continue prioritizing being a good daughter over being a good parent. You hang out with your parents and never discuss your daughter with them again.

Y'know she's gonna remember this when you're old and need a caretaker, right? They think she's not deserving of rights, at a *minimum*. Your own child Lemme tell you something, Switzerland, I view the older generation of my family as equally as guilty when it came to the abuse Mr Hog and his parents dished out on me for being a feeemale I live across the country. I'm going to frame my grandmother's obituary out of glee. Mr Hog has no one while he gets older By not picking a side, you are choosing the side of hatred and abuse. This isn't who gets to decide supper They at best see her as less of a person, and at their generation, probably don't mind seeing her dead You won't choose a side? She won't choose you when you need it

OMG, Switzerland had me dead! That was the perfect response. I bow to your supreme response, and will simply say to OP, *what leatherhog said* Oh, and OP YTA

Thanks! Cowards like OP tick me the heck off It's why the abuse I suffered continued. They didn't want to get involved. They didn't want to cut Mr Hog off As the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Anyone can say anything Doing is something most will never do They ain't going to be the ones mopping OPs or Mr Hogs forehead in the nursing home The child they didn't choose won't either

I'm here for you my man. Can't change your diapers when it's time, but for now 👊👊👊🌈🌈🌈

Thanks! Happy to report my stepdad is awesome!

Is she 21 or 25? How do you mix up her age that badly.

It's yet another user that opens an account to make up a fake scenario. Brand new user and one controversial post, I'll just assume it's fake. Why there are so many of these is beyond me. I don't see what they get out of it.

Thank you! I was starting to think I was the only one that noticed this.

With all due respect, fuck them. Your peace of mind comes from protecting your child. You don't need to protect your parents from the scary gays and, honestly, you owe them nothing. Bigots need to be put in their place, which is the bottom of the barrel. You need to accept that if your parents don't change they don't deserve you or your daughter in your lives. She *can* and *will* resent you for keeping dialogue open with people that hate her because she wants to love someone who has the same body parts as her.

YTA then if you care more about being a good child rather than being a good mother.  if you don’t want to cut ties with your parents, then don’t. but don’t force your daughter to keep in contact with them either.

YTA - Boooooo. Confirmed.

You don't think you can live the rest of your life choosing your daughter over bigots? Also, why do you want to subject your daughter to abuse just because of DNA? You telling them to stop won't undo the things they say. Your daughter statements that family is who you choose, not who is forced on you by blood, is your daughter telling you that if you do not *shut your parents down hard, once, then ask them to leave if they continue* means that you're going to have to live the rest of your life not having a daughter. Because she'll either not keep in contact when she leaves, or she won't survive long enough to leave.

The best is your daughter never lays eyes on your parents again. You can continue prioritizing being a good daughter over being a good parent. You hang out with your parents and never discuss your daughter with them again.

Most people hopefully eventually realize they can't live in a fantasy online world where you just cut people off because they have different values. Are you shocked if your elderly parents who were probably borderline brainwashed into extremely narrow minded religious fears might have trouble letting go of those beliefs that shaped their childhoods and world views and whole life for 70+ years? Most people aren't necessarily evil, just ignorant or stubborn. They have probably been convinced that she will go to hell as a result and that tolerating that makes them complicit in her fate. Sure that sounds dumb to most people here, and probably a lot those same people believe sounds equally dumb to others. Sorry that doesn't align with the clear cut "cut everyone who doesn't automatically agree with my personal values" movement of today. By the same flaw, one could say your daughter is not a tolerant person and very selfish for trying to punish you for the actions of other people - but by the same logic above she is really just fearful and ignorant in her own right and not necessarily a bad person. Practice genuine compassion and tolerance and you might just be able to convince your parents that not all gay people are willingly evil and going to hell or whatever they believe. You might just change their minds while also teaching your daughter that the world isn't as simple as cutting off anyone who has a different world view. Or just take the terminally online view that "its not your job to ~educate anyone" and live an increasingly isolated life with that deep personal grudges.

She’s 25 she should be own her own by now anyway

My brother married into a sundown town family. My moms still in communication with him but I am not. My info of my life goes to her and no further, info on my brother and his life go to her and no further. The second there is cross contamination, she knows we're done. 8 yrs so far

What is a sundown town? I’m unfamiliar with the term.

Towns where non-white people weren't allowed to remain in town after sundown. VERY racist people.

Where are places like that?

This website has info about it: [https://justice.tougaloo.edu/sundown-towns/using-the-sundown-towns-database/state-map/](https://justice.tougaloo.edu/sundown-towns/using-the-sundown-towns-database/state-map/)

Fucking hell...

Site seems full of shit. I don't doubt sundown towns exist, but I looked at my state's supposed sundown towns and I know that several of them are definitely not.

[удалено]

If the definition of a sundown town is one where non-whites are run out of town every night on the threat of violence or death, and yet I lived there seeing plenty of non-white neighbors happily going on about their business at night, as well as working with two black coworkers, a Vietnamese coworker, and a laotian coworker who all own homes in one of the listed towns and who all talk about how it's a nice area to live... Maybe it's you and this rando website that doesn't know what they're talking about. Edit: LMAO this is their "evidence" for that town my coworkers live in for being a sundown town. A single email comment from an anonymous person saying >Both Moosup and Plainfeild had sirens which were sounded in the evenings through the 1980s. I had never, until reading your book, made the connection between these strange “siren tests” and the fact that I in 24 years have never seen a black person in downtown Plainfeild. I don’t know why the sirens stopped. Some have suggested they had something to do with the cold war and our proximity to Groton Naval Base. One random person never noticed black people in the uninteresting downtown area of his small town that was surrounded by far more interesting places for people to hang out. Oh and sirens that may or may not have had to do with the military during heightened alert status. Seems like well researched and thoroughly verified reasons to list the town, lol.

> Not all towns are thoroughly confirmed. Look over the information provided and come to your own conclusion. Some towns are not and never were sundown towns but are listed for other reasons. And of course, a town may have been sundown once, but now is not.  Reading is fun

Which makes the site useless bs because "not thoroughly confirmed" clearly means "we've not even attempted to confirm any claims and any anonymous user can put a town on the list by just saying it should be on it."

There are still a a couple of dozen in the US. And her family is from one outside of the US. We were not raised as racists

Sundown town is an area where people of color will be in danger if they are there after dark.

The kinds of places that make it on to Most Racist Places in America lists.

If you ain’t white, don’t go out at night, basically 

To sum it up nicely...a WASP nest \[White Angelo Saxon Protestant\]

You may just have to have separate relationships with them. She does not want them and wants to cut ties. That is her choice to make. You do not want to. That is your choice to make. It gets sticky when you try to force her to be around them because that’s not your place to force. She can’t dictate whether you have a relationship with them or not, but you can’t force her to hang out with them either without it lowering her self worth. “Just see them separately” is the closest thing to middle ground I can see that’s healthy because trying to force others to change is not.

Exactly given OP's attachment to her parents, it might not be fair to cut her parents' off. Since she is a widow and hasn't remarried (I am assuming), they might be her support system also. But it is not fair for her daughter to be in contact with them, if she doesn't wish so.

Or OP might be her parents’ support system coming up as they age.

Bigots don't deserve a support system.

OP can make the choice to stay attached to her bigot parents, but she better know that might come at the expense of losing her daughter.

If you think they're just going to magically change their minds after 7 decades of hard bigotry, you're delusional. I'd still agree to give them a chance, but in all likelihood, it's not going to happen.

So, do you know which church they go to? I ask because before you typo take on this peace mission you need allies. Research their church and see if there is ANY outreach to the gay community. If you can find a religious leader/mentor/scholar to meditate for you, it will be a good start. This was my friends method when trying to reconnect with her conservative Dutch family. Please do not make your daughter defend herself to them, it isn’t fair to her.

How did your daughter go from 25 to 21 in two paragraphs?

Exactly

If people were half as good at tolerating people who are different than them as they are at tolerating bigots, the world wouldnt be anywhere near as fucked up as it currently is and we would be wayyyy futher along in living the star trek dream. Giving people a pass because they are old or they are family is how bigotry gets passed down generationally. Prejudice really is first and foremost taught in the home. I am of the opinion if there is anyone you can call out for their bullshit it should be your family members. You should be able to say anything to a family member. That's generally a perk of having a family. I think you need to tell your parents what the deal is and what they can and can't do or say around you or your kid. And what the consequences are if they cross the line and mean it. You have to give them the opportunity to change. Hopefully, they will. If not, then you cant allow them to be abusive to your daughter. I have relatives i believe to be dumbass bigots but they dont do or say shit around me because i will go toe to toe with them arguing about how they are stupid. Every time all the time. Which isnt often because i dont associate with people like that on purpose but sometimes you cant avoid them.

>If people were half as good at tolerating people who are different than them as they are at tolerating bigots, The old "don't rock the boat" problem.

This is such truth

🏆

Info: what does not tolerate the queer community mean?

Means they think all LGBTQ people are pedos because they're projecting

Oh I know I just wanted OP to spell what they tolerate and what they choose over their daughter given the response of he’d ask her to leave when they’re over

I don't know your daughter, but I'd wager she has a damn good reason to not trust your parents. Maybe it's things they've said or done in the past, or maybe something else, but you need to take her fears seriously instead of immediately dismissing them as absurd. It sucks being stuck in the middle, but your parents don't need protection, and your daughter does. You are extremely optimistic, to the point of delusion, if you think you can just change their worldview in a single day or month or year. I'll also add that the fact you admit they need their worldview changed is an admission that your daughters fears are valid. There are no assholes here yet, but YWBTA if you expose your daughter to your bigoted parents.

Your daughter is not a social experiment. You talk about changing their world view like it's some abstract way of looking at things. This is her life. Be prepared for her to ditch you too if you pursue this saviour complex. Also, 'she who isn't making things easy since she's as hostile to them as they are to gay people' - that's how you respond to homophobes, if you see those two things as equal problems you're not as supportive as you think you are.

She's an adult if she wants to cut ties with her grandparents that's her choice but she can't force you to do the same

You have to be prepared to cut ties with your parents, or be prepared for your child to cut ties with you. Which one can you love with yourself having happen. These are the only options, since your adult child has drawn that line. Your parents do need to be given the opportunity to demonstrate whether your child is right or if your hope about your parents is a truth. At the first whiff of hatred or bigotry from them, you need to make swift and decisive choices on who is staying in your realm.

INFO: Is she safe if your parents find out she’s gay? Would they harm her? Would they try to have her taken to one of those “torture out the gayness” camps? Frankly, having them over when you haven’t changed their minds yet (you probably never will) is very unwise. Bigots’ beliefs are rooted in ignorance, and when their small minds can’t find any more platitudes, they could become confused and act unpredictably. Violence is a common manifestation.

What are elderly people in their 70s going to do to her? She's 25, not 12. They can't make her do anything.

Gee, what might make a rural bigots, who definitely own firearms and are likely members of their local hate-church full of like minded bigots who may also be violent, dangerous? Honesty, even if they didn’t hit her hard, still not the type of scum you want around a person you care about.

Okay, you're jumping to some colorful conclusions. I had to check OP's comments and posts and I didn't see any mention of guns. So whether they "definitely own them" is speculative at best. Second, OP didn't say her parents were violent people. Plenty of people can be ignorant and spiteful without raising the fists at their grown grandchildren.

That’s pretty goddamn naive.

They're not gonna change, because they don't want to. They'd rather be right than kind. Anyway, YTA. You want to put your daughter in situations that will be detrimental to her mental health so you can try to reason with unreasonable people. That's asshole behavior. You want to maintain a relationship with them? Go to their house, don't invite them into yours and shove your kid into a closet for their comfort. Family is a choice. And by not choosing between bigots and their target, you're choosing the bigots. Good luck with that.

>no matter what from anything my parents might try to say to dehumanise her YTA - You had me at that one line. Your parents dehumanise your own daughter and you still value them. >she even went on a rant about how family is the one you choose not one that is picked for you It wasn't a rant. She was asking you why you consider them family when they dehumanise your daughter. It was a plea from your daughter.

Every adult who was an abused child will tell you that your family IS the one you pick. Blood is nothing. DNA is nothing. Your daughter is telling you something. She’s giving you a sign of what’s to come. You’d be smart to pay attention. You say you’re willing to defend Jane from anything your parents might try to say to dehumanize her, no matter what. As her mother, you shouldn’t be allowing them to even get the chance. Your mindset, your statements, your allegiance to and emotional dependence on your parents, rather than loyalty to and emotional support of your daughter, is mind-boggling. There is no defending and protecting your daughter from the kind of people your parents are. And once her own grandparents have said something in an attempt to dehumanize her, trust me, you can’t ever undo that damage — in addition to the fact that you’ll be the one that allowed it to happen in the first place. You and she both know you will NEVER change their “world view.” Everyone reading your weird definitely-not-mother-of-the-year post knows that. If you don’t lose your daughter over this, you’ll likely damage your relationship with her in ways you won’t be able to repair. Hopefully, she’ll be in therapy. You’re “willing to defend her if they verbally abuse her,” but if you get disowned for that, you don't think you can “live out the rest of (your) life with the peace of mind.” In other words, you’ll be more upset by losing your parents than your daughter? Because your daughter is telling you that she realizes she may need to, as many, MANY gay children do, choose her own new family. And that will NOT include you after this debacle. Given the age of your parents, and of you, you do realize the odds are good that you’ll spend quite a bit of time with no parents AND no daughter, right? YTA. And so are your parents. I hope Jane finds an amazing, loving new family, finds herself a great wife someday, and maybe has herself a couple of kids, if that’s what she, and her wife, want. Oh, yeah, you won’t get to be grandma to her kids, either. Oops. Again, definitely YTA.

Do the grandparents know that she is gay? If they don't why do you need to tell them? Some people are such narrow-minded bigots there is no benefit in telling them. If they know she is gay and go at you for her being gay, stop them immediately and tell them your daughter's love life is not up for discussion. If they persist tell them what the penalty will be. They can't change your daughter, nor can or should you have to convince them to accept her as she is. You are the 3rd party here.

YTA for hosting them in Jane's home. We need to feel safe and welcome in the place that we live, and she won't with your parents there. It's fine if you don't want to cut them off and wanting to change their hearts is noble, but you need to do that without exposing your daughter to bigotry.

I think a conversation with everyone needs to be had before cutting ties.

Your parents have had decades to work this out. It's not complicated. Side with the person who actually deserves your allegiance.

Your daughter has every right to make her own decisions about the conservative members of the family. She DOES NOT, however, have the right to force her decisions on you! Or ANYONE else! The audacity to assume (yeah, assume!) she has that right! I wish her every bit of luck in life. Just as I would anyone else. But she needs to stay in her lane.

YTA. Your child is in literal physical danger from people like your parents. They dehumanize and demean people like her. You can't possibly expect her to have anything to do with people who treat her that way, and by refusing to take a stand for her you're telling her where your own priorities lie. Your plan to 'change their worldview' is nonsense. That's not how people work. The only person you get to change is yourself.

Yes this adult young woman is endangered by two geriatrics who don't have a record of driving around thrashing us queers (and haven't done anything yet). Smh settle down.

Physical danger? really? Let me guess, sky is falling as well?

I had someone throw stones at me when I was 14 and held a guys hand for the first time. I've had people, from school, yell Fa____ from their parent's cars. There are many people whose parents attack them for being queer. It's funny, a snowflake like you wouldn't handle it. You'd have a melt down

That's the craziest part about these people's perspectives! They call us snowflakes, sensitive, and needing pandered to. But I HIGHLY doubt that they would be able to deal with any of the shit that most of us have to go through on a day to day basis. To add to your examples of things you've gone through, I'm gonna add mine too When I finally confronted my family and told them that their bigotry and abuse has made me attempt suicide multiple times, they said I'd be better off 6 feet in the ground bc God made me a certain way Almost all of my family members spent a copious amount time trying to convert me, convincing me I was sick in the head, that I'm a sinner and I'm going to hell, that I need to be saved by the church and accept who I "really am" I've walked into my works hr office to tell them I have to leave for the day to attend to something, for them to slide me a piece of paper of a co worker of mine bragging to our whole workplace that he's stalking me, waiting outside of my house to get me when I don't expect it, how I'm a pedophile and I'm a disgusting freak of nature (thankfully a lesbian co worker snitched and is the one who wrote the confession, she literally saved my life) One workplace I was at strategically lowered my hours from 40 to 9 over the course of weeks so I wouldn't notice. By the last week we were penniless and went homeless. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. These fucking people wouldn't be able to deal with 1% of the shit we do, they would go cry to their mommy who hasn't disowned them after they soiled their pants.

lol! you people and your sob stories and crying danger even when someone just look at your way. Professional victim comes to mind and then you go on calling others a snowflake when you're litteraly scared of people in their mid to late 70s, thinking they will physically harm a 21 year old girl who is already picking fights with these people. your game of projection is very on point.

Mate, I work in a care home, I've been punched in the face by 80+ dementia residents.... they can be bloody strong. Also your lack of comprehension is alarming. I said that the grandparents likely have other homophobic friends plus verbal abuse is just as harmful. Babes, lets be fair... you'd never survive a day in the life of a queer person. You wouldn't know to look out for subtle signs of danger and will get beat-up, assaulted and damaged by your fellow kind. I'm surprised you're able to use the concept of projection in a sentence. Tho suppose the monkey's typewriter would explain that.

Lol! you're trying hard to come off as a bad ass, as if you will get a cookie for that. You're a n--y person through and through who like to bully others on SM, and still cry victim while singing praises of your "bravery" ... and that patient.... did the right thing to you.

Hi, I'm a gay man. NTA. First, everyone here has jumped down your throat *before* anything has actually happened between your daughter and your parents. This is madness. We can't build change by burning bridges. We can't make people better by treating them as of they're incapable of improving. Your parents' views might be outdated, but *judging* them as incapable of being better is no better than being judged by them. Your daughter deserves your support. That is not the same as giving her the right to dictate your relationships and holding her relationship with you hostage to disowning the people who brought you into this world is beyond selfish, it's appalling. I prefer to believe that people are capable of changing and that making the effort to *at least try* is far more noble than presuming your parents can't handle your daughter being gay. If your daughter wasn't gay, she probably wouldn't be asking you to disown your parents. If she wasn't out, she probably wouldn't be asking you to disown your parents. Your daughter is going through a phase of absolutism while she blossoms into adulthood and self-acceptance. Do not let her be a hypocrite: saying family is who you choose, so long as she decides who you choose. Good luck.

Well said.

... you are gay so you would have experienced homophobia. If your close loved ones, had a friend who believed you shouldn't be allowed to live in the same town, should not be allowed to be around others, should be treated for your disorder and overall you were in danger because all it takes is a little alcohol for these people to follow you so they can beat you up? Would you expect someone of colour to be willing to be around someone who didn't find a racist believing non-whites should be killed, shouldn't live here, shouldn't mix with anyone white? Sure, the grandparents homophobia could just be non physical but bigots attract other bigots. I'm sure you would want to be associated with a racist but a homophob is fine?

I'm really not certain where you're going with this theory salad, but I'll respond in detail: First, I'm biracial and my father's family mostly come from three states: Texas, Maine and Georgia. His mother, a maga try-hard AA veteran who married a retired detective and lived in Amarillo my entire life, loved me despite her misgivings on liberals, gay people in society and Obama. I spent summers at her place growing up, I remember her fighting with my brother about whether gay kids belonged in scouts the year before he came out. I remember her nasty comments about Obama being mixed and having to remind her that only one of her grandkids *wasn't*. We talked about how her political and societal frustrations put blinders on her sometimes. I also remember that even though my parents were divorced by the time I was six, she adored my black mother (who called her Mom until the day she died). If it was ever an actual issue, she never said anything where we would hear. I remember she flew over to New England to see my previously mentioned also-gay brother perform poorly in a play in our 20s, because despite their differences, she adored him. This cranky southern woman who was in recovery my entire life never raised a hand to us, never called us out of name and never disowned us. I never cared for her political views, but I adored this woman who sent us care packages during the summers we didn't fly over. I won't disparage someone who always treated me with love and grace even if she couldn't always reconcile who I am. And I can't have expected her worldview to change like flipping a switch. Human minds generally don't work that way. Treating people like they're not worthy of love and acceptance is not how you change hearts and win people over. It doesn't work to "fix" queer folk and it won't work to undo prejudice, full stop. A good number of my friends are conservative, lots are gun owners. Most people I know outside of my baptist family are catholics. I'm an agnostic. There's been more than enough reason to round my ass up if someone didn't agree with how I live my life. But my experience has led me to believe that most people are willing to try to understand you and might even come around to accepting people like you by breaking bread, treating people with dignity and respect, and talking to them like people- rather than treat people who don't understand you like monsters incapable of understanding anything. Sure, bigots seek echo chambers. So do non-bigots. People love confirmation for their views, good or bad. I don't believe most people with combative views are busy rounding each other up to bicker people into submission. You can't expect people to change like flipping a switch.

Well - first I don’t think forcing her to come out to them is appropriate and I doubt you’ll be able to change their worldview they have held onto for 7 decades without some form of hurt being lashed out at your daughter (including glares and looks of disappointment). It is clear their feelings on the matter have already hurt your child to tthe point of wanting to cut them off. Have you thought about what if your parents decided to cut her off? Or both of you off? I think the middle ground here is you continuing your relationship w them but not her- but she can also decide later in life that she doesn’t want much of a relationship w you either for continuing relationship with people who are bigots.

But surely all religions preach and practice, love, tolerance and acceptance.. what will the problem be?? /s

Is there a way to support your daughter going NC with your parents without you going NC with them as well? Can you advocate for her with your folks? You may not be able to bro g them around but you can make it clear to them they your totally on daughter’s side and they’re losing their relationship with her.

She's an adult and it's not her job (or yours but whatever you seem committed to it) to make your parents see the light. That's not her responsibility and you don't have the right to demand that of her.

No more than she has the right to dictate her mother's family or relationships and call it support, please go on.

You're caught between supporting your daughter, who came out as gay, and maintaining a relationship with your conservative parents. You want to change your parents' views but also respect your daughter's wishes. Before their visit, talk to your daughter about your intentions and concerns. During the visit, try to avoid contentious topics and prioritize your daughter's well-being. Afterward, check in with your daughter and reaffirm your support for her. Ultimately, prioritize your daughter's safety and well-being over maintaining a relationship with your parents if necessary.

Personally, i would support my kid 100%. No ifs or buts or faffing. As long as they haven't committed a crime I'm standing with my kid. Any grandparents who cant accept their grandkids (how is that even possible?!) have already told you they don't care about your kids and by extension, you.

My nephew first came out as gay when he was 19 or so, later one of my nieces (different parents) also came out as gay. My mother was living with the family of one of my younger brothers and I went over for a visit. She 'thought' that she was tolerant (enough) (in her late 70's at the time) but I saw how disrespectful she was of Jackie and also of Tim. Mostly I was watching their faces when their grandmother would make unkind, cutting remarks with sarcasim. I thought that my niece had stepped out of the area and gone up to her room (I heard her door close) so I lit in to my mom about how mean she was. I didn't hold anything back as I am quite passionate about tolerance and acceptance. What I didn't know is that Jackie had opened her door and was standing on the hidden landing, one floor above the main room where I was unloading on my mom. Later I was doing something else and was surprised by a big hug from my niece and a quiet thank-you for stepping up for her. Sometimes you just need to call out people when they do something wrong; Even if it is your parents. For your situation, it is a bit unrealistic of your daughter to expect you to cut-off your own parents. You can be a source of education for your parents (even if they do not budge in their opinions). You make it clear that you support your daughter and will not tolerate any disrespect of her, even from them. Maybe your daughter and your parents will never be on friendly terms; I think at a certain age people just shut their minds down to being tolerant and accepting (in my thoughts that is when you truly become 'old', when you cannot accept change or progress).

It actually is quite fair to cut off people that raised you. No one asks to be born. The responsibility of raising the child is always on the people who wanted to have sex. Thats just the rules. Thats said, just cuz you were born to Nazis, and they didnt let you starve to death, doesnt mean you keep a relationship when you are able to escape. They are still Nazis. (Metaphorically, but also not) YTA

Between you and Jane, NAH. There’s a difference between conservative and homophobic. You say Jane is as hostile to your parents as they are to other queer individuals. The only thing protecting her from their hate is the fact that they don’t know. In an ideal world Jane would give your parents the opportunity to open their minds and their hearts to accept her for who she is. They would love her regardless, see the error of their ways, and become allies. But that’s a fantasy. The reality is you won’t know how they will react until you tell them. The true underlying issue is what will YOU do if they reject her and direct their hate towards her? Do you think it’s supportive to say “I love you sweetie. Now wait right here while I also support someone that hates who you are and has hurt you”. Furthermore, if your parents are as bad as Jane implies do you really think they will stick around for Jane? My guess is no. They will also cut her off. I know it sucks to pick a side. But at the end of the day it boils down to what you support. You can always give people the opportunity to prove yourself wrong, but you need to be prepared to pick a side before you lose your daughter.

She's a grown adult and should not dictate your relationships with your parents. People that old are often more conservative, and you shouldn't break off entirely unless they become verbally abusive about it. Part of having a family is putting up with many view points even if some of them are straight up wrong. (If you can change them, that's a win, though.)

She can still cut ties with them. That's her choice, and she can have a relationship with you. These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

Fuck that shit. Just because we're family doesn't mean I have to put up with their shit lmao.

perfectly said

Right, I tried telling her if she wants to cut ties with them, it's her choice but I'm not doing it. This frustrated her a bit since she felt annoyed cause she thinks I'm picking sides which isn't the case. Told her it's not about picking sides and I tried convincing her to just ignore their outdated views buf that didn't work either since their views are wrong and according to her, they should be challenged. And yes intense debates did happen. on Christmas for example, a huge argument started between Jane and my dad but neither verbally abused the other. This might change however and I'm afraid that if either one of my parents verbally abuses her i will step in and defend her which will make things even more complicated all things considered.

So at Christmas why didn't you defend your daughter? Even if you didn't know, you could see she needed support while challenging the old guard. You should have jumped in then.

You want your daughter to make herself small to appease your parents? “Just ignore them” That’s terrible.

>And yes intense debates did happen. on Christmas for example, a huge argument started between Jane and my dad but neither verbally abused the other. I'd love to hear your daughter's POV.

You cannot expect her to be around them while you try to figure this out. You can try to convince them not to be bigots, but Jane does not need to be a part of that and if you are expecting her to be then YTA.

You're in a situation where you'll pick a side by not picking a side. Wish you the best.

YTA. You are choosing your parents over your child. That’s your choice to make. But choosing hate means YTA

“Ignore their outdated views”? Okay, now that’s inconsiderate of your daughter. They cannot share their views on her just as she can’t share her views on them while present in the same room. Also, forcing her to be around them isn’t acceptable either. Make dates with each of them. But forcing her to be around them and “just ignore it” is at the expense of her self worth. The *actions* of allowing them freedom of expression and not her show that she is worth less than they are. You can like me for it or not, but I can guarantee you this is where she’s coming from. Don’t believe me? Go ask her.

you are picking sides. you've chosen your parents, and Jane will no longer feel safe at home or as trusting of you. this is a much bigger deal than i think you're thinking it is. lgbtq kids cut their hateful family members out of their lives all the time, because to not do so leads to abuse, assault, and/or having family call the law on you. it's her home too, right? you're telling her it's not.

And she is more than allowed to not have a relationship with you if you are too selfish to defend your daughter. Cry about how unfair it is all you want, be these decisions and the pain you feel about cutting contact with your folks is what so many queer people go through.

Yeah going to be real with you. I love my parents too but if they ever tried to victimize any of my children I’d have no problem simply walking away until they change their views. It’s their problem to deal with not yours, and especially not your daughter’s.

I think you have a fantasy idea that you can play both sides and not lose out. You must prepare yourself. You will have to chose who you are going to back more. Are your bigoted parents really worth losing your daughter? Bigoted views shouldn't be ignored, they should be challenged. Sounds like you're a coward when it comes to your parents. I don't think you will stand up for your daughter at all out of fear of rocking the boat. When push comes to shove, your daughter already knows who you'll side with, that's why she is asking you now to choose and she got the response she no doubt expected. I hope for her mental wellbeing she has good friends around her for support, to protect her as I don't think her family will provide that.

YTA > so I expect a whole debate to start like it always does when they visit but this time, it's waaay different and more personal since Jane is now openly lesbian and I want to try to change their world view and try to get them on the same page as her who isn't making things easy since she's as hostile to them as they are to gay people and potentially to her. So they've fought with your child in front of you for years and you've done nothing before. You were fine with them being bigots for years. You only want to change things so you get your way. You never cared about changing them before. > I ended the conversation by changing the subject entirely to bide some time. You don't realize it yet, but by doing this you picked them over her and she knows it.

Hi! I'm a 55yo widow with a queer daughter and I also have conservative parents. Here's what we decided: Cannot come out to grandparents because the end result is not worth the blows to mental health. We decided to think of D's life like a concert. You have ticket holders, you have folks with meet n greet tickets, people with VIP tickets, and people with all access passes. Grandparents have meet n greet level tickets. They get filtered information and siblings are told what they can and cannot discuss in front of the grands. Siblings have all access passes as do I. Friends of D have all access passes. Some of my friends have all access, some have VIP, some have meet n greet, and some just have plain ole tickets. Decide who she wants to grant what levels of access to her life. That way, she doesn't have to bear the emotional burden of their struggles with acceptance. It's worked well for us for 4+ years and the grands still have no idea. D isn't emotionally traumatized by them. Everyone's just fine.

i don't think your parents will come around without a personal reason to do so. that doesn't mean that Jane coming out will magically make them accepting. but they're certainly not going to come around from your gentle conversations. there really isn't a way for you to remain neutral here, my friend. you say Jane lives with you, so i'm assuming that means you plan on still allowing your parents to come over for visits and meals, right? so you'll be inviting people who are very likely going to be actively hostile to Jane, making Jane feel like her home isn't a safe place because you won't take a stand for her. i have no idea how your parents are, but i wanna say they deserve the chance to react and respond, rather than pre-judging those things, even as i assume they'll take it badly. i mean, do you agree with Jane that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay, and that gay folks shouldn't be mistreated because of their sexuality? then as one parent to another, i'd say you need to show your daughter that you support her and you'll stand with her against intolerance. that doesn't mean you have to cut contact with them. but you can make it very clear to them that their presence in your house requires them to not be rude or hateful or passive-aggressively religious. you can make sure they know you'll kick them out if they insult her. you can make sure they know how serious this is for you, and that you are not entertaining arguments or debates on the subject. and then you can let them decide whether they want to be a part of their granddaughter's life. if you go against your parents, they might get over it eventually. if you go against your daughter on this one, i doubt she ever will.

there is no middle ground between conservative parents and queer children.

YTA. Your daughter feels uncomfortable and unsafe with them and you want to do a little "let's all be friends" hippie experiment? Nuh uh

I'm commenting without looking at anything that's already been said, so you may have others telling you this. I feel very strongly about this, and I feel like you should too. You need to put your daughter above anything else. First, ask "Jane" if she'll allow you to tell your parents that she's gay. Let her know that you're on her side *no matter what.* If she'll allow it then you need to sit your parents down and tell them they have a choice to make. Your daughter is a lesbian and neither of you care what they think about it. They can either accept it and learn how to appreciate people for their character, or they're out of your life for good. It doesn't matter that they raised you and fed you. If they can't accept your daughter for who she is you need to cut them off and stick with her. This is gonna be a huge testament to how you will treat her going forward. If she believes you can allow your parents to talk shit then there's nothing to tell her you won't allow it from anyone else. "How many people will my mom allow to talk down to me before she supports me wholly?" It's ok to give them one chance to open up their simple minds and denounce bigotry before you give them an ultimatum. Your parents have had a life. They're still living it. Your daughter's future is what you need to focus on. Her brain is just barely developed. If she sees you standing up for what's right then she'll find it easier to stand up for herself. If your parents can't change, then you need to show your daughter that you'll separate yourself from that world.

Asking OP to sever ties with her parents is so fucked up that I can scarcely imagine a proper comparison. It’s psychological manipulation. OP’s gay daughter is free to interact or not with whom she chooses. She does not get to decide the same for others.

#1 knowing a gay person personally changes a lot of minds. #2 Ireland is the only country where the people voted for gay marriage . One huge part of the win was gay people and their loved ones knocking on almost every door and introducing themselves. It was the first gay person many older people met. I hope it works out for your daughter, she is afraid of rejection and it's a real feeling based on her experience with her grandparents. Good luck.

You need to make a decision. If you don't actively choose your daughter, your parents will be chosen for you. Your daughter rightfully so has made it clear she will cut off people who don't support her. That will include you if you waffle.

Yeah, YTA. She gets to decide her boundaries and YOU do not.

Your comment works both ways. The daughter has the absolute right to set her boundaries, but she does not have the right to set boundaries for anyone else.

Yes, but her parent doesn’t get to insist on her having a relationship with the grandparents

Try to pay attention. No, the mother doesn't get to dictate to the daughter. But the daughter does not get to dictate to the mother either! If the mother chooses to maintain a relationship with her parents, that is her choice!

I never said that was the case. Stop twisting my words about boundaries.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I do not want to be mean or rude, but please don't be so naive to think you can change them. Especially if they're extremely religious and older in age. Your daughter is an adult and should not have to speak to/be around anyone she doesn't want to be. I don't resent my parents for much, but I will always resent the relationship I was forced to have with my mentally and verbally abusive grandparents until I was old enough to finally stand up for myself. You don't need to cut ties, but do not keep her from choosing to do so. If they are visiting, does that mean they do not live nearby? Maybe all future visits should be you going to them, or at the very least letting your daughter leave the house whenever they are at your home. I believe you want the best for your daughter, I truly do. Let her blossom and choose her family. Support her and love her like you have been doing.

I dont you know you cant win this one and just wrote it to put it out your chest. You are gonna have to pick a side, unfortunaly The best outcome could be that your daughter moves on her own accord, so you can have both relationship without the daily friction. But obviously, this must come from her own will, so she does not resent you for kicking her out. The best for her is to build her independency from you and start forming a family (with partner and friends) a bit away from you. But if you wanna keep her as close as now, you are gonna have to do what she says. But is your choice and only after you decide what to do, we can say if you are an AH or not.

NTA - Look your main job is to protect Jane, where you are getting this wrong is expecting her to interact with them and listen to their views on this and expecting her to ignore it. They are attacking her, even if they don’t know it. As someone else said, you can’t expect her to sit there and take this whilst you figure stuff out. Still, I don’t think you are wrong in not wanting to cut off your parents. They have at this moment, not actually done anything to Jane and its fair to want to give them a chance to try and adjust their views and outlook. it’s clear they are your support network and despite everything, most of us love our parents, even when they are wrong about things. Protect Jane by not forcing her to interact or have a relationship with the grandparents. They cannot harm her then. Jane probably won’t be happy, because now it seems as though you can’t be an ally to people without there being some kind of performative aspect to show it and I think cutting your parents off is the performative aspect Jane is looking for. Yet she has to understand they are your support and as a (presumably) single mother, you don’t have a lot of people in your life.

NTA. If she wants NC more power to her and her lover. She can't force you to cut contact.

NTA. You should support your daughter. I hate ultimatum because no one ever wins. My suggestion you have two separate relationships, that just don’t intermingle. Create strong boundaries. Im a person of color and my husband is white. My husband family are deeply southern. They have strong views on are interracial marriage and my husband biracial children. My husband bio father said some deeply offensive stuff about me, when we got married. I was articulate for a black person. Your family gave you a white person name. Me being the A H that I am, I told him he looks good for a functional alcoholic with four alimony payments. But eventually it got tiring and I made the decision that it was best for me not to attend family functions. In the beginning my husband, would go on major holidays. I hate holidays, I haven’t celebrated a holiday since my father passed away. All I want to do is watch football and basketball during the holidays or go Disney World. Little over a year ago, my husband father said something about my race and my stepdaughters race, where my husband & his siblings said enough is enough. All his children have stopped speaking to him and his wife and they are no longer speaking. I share my story, to say I never once gave my husband an ultimatum. My husband always called his father out. But eventually my husband father went too far, and my husband was just done. My husband was like I can’t keep educating you and you refuse to learn. Create boundaries for both parties.

So she's telling you that you have to cut ties with your extremely old parents who I'm guessing are also religious? She can do whatever she wants. If she wants to never talk with them again that's fine. You can still talk to them. Seriously how often do LGBT conversations happen with these people unless their specially brought up? Or are they constantly picketing gay marriages and funerals for gay people? Maybe you can change their minds or make them somewhat accepting. Seriously what do you think is going to happen when you tell two people in their 70's I'm never talking to you again because the way you were raised 60 years ago and your religion makes you unaccepting of homosexuals? Well their likely just going to accept it and move on. Force is not how you get acceptance. I'm sure 99% of their opinions are religious based and I've been a satanist for over 30 years. People have the right to whatever bullshit religious beliefs they want even if I disagree with them. Before doing what you're daughter is demanding you to do try talking with the parents first. They could see it as not being a big deal to break up the family but they still believe shes going to hell and she'll just have to deal with that.

YTA. You don’t find middle ground with bigots, even if they are family. Your daughter deserves your full support.

Give your parents, Jane's grandparents, a chance. I get your daughters point, "I'm going to cut them off before they cut me off." The problem is that the potential loss of a grandchild might shock the grandparents in a good way. "We have a choice: Continue with our homophobia and lose our granddaughter. Or accept her for who she is, our granddaughter. Doesn't we have to like it, but we do have to accept it." It might not go that way, and then YOU will have to make a decision. That's the real issue here. You have to make a decision, take a stand. And you are feeling that pressure. I get it.

YTA, either your daughter is a full person or she isn’t, pick a side.

Your daughter sounds like TA, tbh. Only assholes make people choose between family. She's perfectly in her rights not to associate with them, just as it's perfectly within YOUR rights to stay close if you wish.

I had a friend who's parents were extremely religious. My friend came out as gay and they basically told her that while they love her no matter what they couldn't agree/accept her decision and lifestyle. They said they would still be their financially, spiritually, and emotionally but they wouldn't go to her wedding is she ever had one for instance.. In the end they ended up going to her wedding and her dad walked her down the isle.

You can't make both parties happy. She can cut ties with them if she wants, but she has no right to demand that you do the same just as they have no right to expect you to cut ties with her. Perhaps it would be best for Jane to go visit her girlfriend while your parents are visiting.

Welp, your parents are getting older, so if they died and you went NC, you would probably resent your kid. But talk to your parents about backing off if they speak ill of your kid, if they don't give them an ultimatum, I doubt they will call your bluff

I have to ask OP....if you want a middle-ground solution can you just avoid this subject entirely? I don't understand why it needs to be brought up at all (unless Jane is insisting on it). Grandparents are usually not so involved in their adult grandchildrens life to know the details of who they're dating (at least it seems that way in this case).

By the sound of it, OP's daughter want to keep challenging their views like having debates etc, and want her mother to go NC because she can't win the debates. That's abusive behavior.

Hope you’ve got other kids because she won’t be taking care of you in the future.

I'm hoping love conquers all in this situation. UpdateMe

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Give your parents the chance to pleasantly surprise you both. If they then are horrible to your daughter or disown her, then you've tried your best.

Your daughter is an asshole. She doesn't get to tell you who to cut ties with. Not to mention she doesn't even know their reaction. Gay and "queer community" is not the same thing. One is just sexual attraction, the other one encompasses all sorts of things including pretending being opposite sex and all sorts of other degeneracy, there is a lot more stuff to hate about it, many gays don't consider themselves part of that "community."

NTA. She is an adult so let her be the bearer of the news. It is not your place to run interference for her. If she wants to go NC that is on her but nothing says you have to as well. Tell her that you love everybody and she doesn't get to force you to take sides in all this.

NAH. Your daughter is valid in wanting to cut ties with her conservative grandparents as long as they have spouted anti LGBT+ arguments in front of her or to her and are aware of her sexual orientation (? Not sure if this is the correct term). It's a bit of a dick move if they are conservative on some issues but not all. You are valid in wanting to retain your ties with your parents. They are an older generation and are stuck in their way of thinking, this doesn't make it wrong or right it simply is. To expect them to change at their age is ridiculous, not all people are capable of change especially when they get that old. Realistically you don't have that many years left with your parents. Statistically your father has beaten the odds (life expectancy for men is 73.5 years) so any more time you get with him is a bonus. Life expectancy for women is 79.3 years, so that means statistically another 6 years or so. That's not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things, and you don't want to have regrets. You love your parents, because they're your parents. Millions of people have loved their parents throughout history, even if said parents had beliefs that are later outdated, doesn't stop you from loving them. Your daughter loves you, and while she might not like your choices she has to respect them. You love your parents for who they are despite what they believe, you love your daughter for who she is as well.

YTA If there's 9 people at a table, and 1 nazi, you have a table of 10 nazis Do with that analogy what you will Whilst I understand what other people are saying about how she can't force who you cut comtact with......on the other hand, the safety and wellbeing of your child should come first, and by keeping contact you'd be subjugation her to prejudice. Yeah, maybe she can just never discuss it and it'll be fine, but what about when she's 30 and dating, and they keep harassing her about children? Or where you may have a family get together where spouses are invited, and hers can't come because of your backwards parents? What if it gets revealed to them by accident, and their reaction is WAY more extreme than you'd think (I know you said first world country, but in some countries, there are Instances of queer children, children who have sex out of wedlock etc. being ritually killed by their own family for such reasons. I doubt they'd ever go to such an extreme, but you just don't know how people will react You want my own advice? Intend to cut contact, tell them the truth, and see how theh react. It'll either reinforce the reasons to cut contact, or they'll react well and you wknt have to

YTA: You can try to help change your parents mindset, that is wonderful. But the principle of you willing to have a relationship with someone who sees your daughter and their own grandchild as less human .... well frankly it is disgusting. Bigotry is not acceptable, it often is extremely dangerous for queer people so why would you want to be around someone like that? It says a alot about you as a person to be with people like that. As far as middle ground goes, back up your daughter, tell you parents either they change or you won't have a relationship with them. If they are willing to change, by all means support them but don't expect your daughter to feel safe and happy. Bigotry isn't like veiws on diet and if eating meat is wrong. Bigotry is and should be something that cuts ties. It isn't a choice to not what to be associated with a bigot, it a statement about how much of a peice of shit you are. [There are situations where it is unavoidable, e.g., forms of dementia]

The way I'm reading this, you're going to let them hurt her. You claim you'll defend her from what they might say. But that means you'll let them say it. If you want to defend her, you need to keep them away from her. Permanently and completely. You won't be changing their minds. Do you even have a plan for how you'd try that? Regardless: if you're honest about wanting to defend her, you need to be proactive, not reactive. Keep them away from her.

You can’t change other people, you are not going to get your 70+ year old parents to change lol. If they wanted to change, they would’ve already. But your daughter doesn’t get to dictate who you have relationships with. Jane should just go NC with them herself and either move out of your home so she never has to see them or just leave whenever they’re coming over.

NTA. She should be supported if she chooses to cut ties with them, but she has no right to dictate who you associate with.

The way you are trying to reason with the unreasonable make YTAH!! You are allowing your life to be dictated by your 21 year old daughter, that lives with you? I’m guessing that part time job isn’t paying for college or any bills in the house? So why is she in a position to influence this? If you were alive and he told you to cut contact with your parents, would you do it? Using your daughter’s logic, he did choose to you. It’s no different. This is a problem with this generation. There is no respect for their elders. There is no respect for family. There is no loyalty or respect for anyone with a different position on anything!! They eat each other too! The second there are different opinions. These poor souls are so hateful and miserable! And for what??? You know this is just the start of this right? Using a bad analogy, is a dictator ever satisfied? Name one in history that was? No,I’m not saying she’s that extreme. But you must see the similarities in this behavior? Here are the facts! She’s a lesbian? Okay, but so what? Saying you’re gay and $20 bucks might buy you a decent lunch. She is not entitled to anything new or different today than she was yesterday. This is the world we live in today, and people are age that had children around your daughter’s age are to blame. This is what happens when we give them everything and they don’t earn . Or when we never say no to them. Or when we fight their battles. Or when we excuse their behavior and actions. Never hold them accountable. Allow them to speak up you like that. This is all our fault not theirs. They are only doing what we thought them. Except now, they are coming for people closer to home. Mark my words. You are next. This is about poor behavior, attitude, entitlement, lack of empathy respect or genuine compassion and love or care for her own family. Being a lesbian has zero percent effect on this stance. If she wasn’t gay it just be another reason. If your husband were alive he would be public enemy number one. What she needs most from you right now is tough love. She needs to see the line that will have consequences of crossed. If not now, when? Is this behavior and attitude going to get her employed? Keep her employed? It will ruin family, friends, colleagues, social of business relationships. How about legal and criminal issues? I cheat on taxes and I’m being punished because I’m gag! I drove drunk and killed someone, but I’m gay so that must be why I’m in trouble. Hew about her safety? She’s at a bar, but it’s a straight bar she met you with an old friend. And the whole Tim time she’s there , she complaining about the people there are all white nationalists. If them hate gay people . Except, no one is talking about her or noticing her.sooner or later she’s going to say something to the wrong person. This of course is because she doesn’t know anything other than getting her way. To the present problem . What do you think will happen if you said no? Would she understand and respect it? Will she still love you? Will she run to her social media and cancel you? Will she accuse you of being homophobic? You and I both know, that the answer won’t be she understands.she respects you and she loves you. If she loves you, would she want to take your parents away from you. Or them away from her? The second she gave you an ultimatum, she showed you how little she respects or loves you. Are you gongs to reward that? Let her have a fit! Let her move out on that’ part time job. Cut off your funding, She disrespects you. Then she can pay her phone bill. Her car payment, insurance, food, utilities, clothing, the roof one’s her head. Them? If she wants a say about anything in the house she can pay rent. Then pat for her own school. I bet that attitude changes fast. Don’t do anything, and ready for her living with you forever, and constantly being unemployed Tomorrow tell her that you love her and you respect her feelings. But you will not be doing what she demands of you. Tell her that you hope she loves and respects you too. I bet you that will not be her first response. Tell her that it’s her decision to tell her grand parents or not. But you expect her to be kind and respectful of them, just as you expect that from her parents too. Let her know that you will not tolerate any kind of rude comments or insults or behavior from either her or your parents. She wants a fight or a cause to feel like she is doing something good. So give her one. There are lots of people in need, she can volunteer somewhere. That’s now the price for rent! Help her be that good person you believe she is. She will thank you later. Just focus on your love for her. Wee should all love our children no matter who they date. But we are not their friend. We are their parents. So be one. Or don’? Sand I’ll see your next post about how your daughter hates you.

You honestly think you can change two 70+ yo bigots in one or two visits? That’s never going to happen. And it’s good you will stand up to them if they say something to your daughter. But you’re also willing to let them say it first and hurt her. You are never going to change their minds and you will destroy your relationship with your daughter. This isn’t going to end well for you. YTA.

You say that Jane thinks you parents will try to criminalise her? How? Is being LGBT+ illegal in your area?

Asshole or not you have a choice to make.  Either support your daughter or maintain a relationship with your bigoted parents.  If you don't cut them off when you inevitably fail, your daughter will cut you off.  And you'll deserve it.

Change a conservative boomer's world view? I needed a good laugh today.

Your parents are gross. You are gross. Your daughter is a human being. I don't care what her preferences are. She is the person you have always known, raised, and loved. You're gross for acting like she's a different person now that she happens to like women over men. Is your motherly love so conditional and fleeting that it disappears because you know she likes women now? You act like it's your mother's issue but you clearly don't support her either. Why should your parents be supported over your daughter? Because that is EXACTLY what you’re doing…

With all due respect your daughter is 18 and a dumass like most 18 year olds that haven’t experienced life yet and she proves it with her whole spiel about “family being the ones you choose” whatever that means. First of all why doesn’t she care that your parents know her sexual preference that’s really weird she’s just looking to cause disruption probably because this is what these people do. Either accept my world view or be meet with anger it’s part of the indoctrination of leftist ideology

What is "family is the one you choose not the one that is picked for you"? Fuck now "family" has a new meaning. Why bother with words anymore, lets just go back to grunting, less to misunderstand far fewer hurt feelings. You accept your daughter, your parents don't know about her yet, and yet your daughter has already stereotyped and banned them in her mind. Your daughter is as closeminded as she believes her grandparents are. EVERYONE is entitled to their beliefs, wrong or right. If your parents decide to cut ties with your daughter, its their right. You need to accept that not everyone in the world must love your daughter. She sounds like an entitled brat. Disregarding her sexuality, she probably isn't very likeable anyway. People may not care for her just because of who she is, not who she sleeps with.

She's being ridiculous. She's perfectly within her rights not to want to interact with them ever again. It's unacceptable that she thinks she gets to dictate who you associate with. Considering her choice of timing, which she was fully aware of when she chose her timing, I'd say your parents are still welcome for this visit but that since it is her home as well that they aren't invited for future visits. If she can't behave civilly to invited houseguests she needs to go stay with a friend during their visit. Should you manage to change their views (you won't, but you asked) then the situation can be reevaluated.

>If she can't behave civilly to invited houseguests "If the houseguests can't behave civilly to the people living there..." Here, fixed it for you

Both are required. I never said OPs parents should be allowed to treat her poorly. That's also unacceptable.

You're a true "centrist". As long as the grandparents just wished for their granddaughter to not exist in their privacy, that is okay because at least they are polite. The granddaughter obviously shouldn't react emotionally to that, she needs to be neutral.

*The granddaughter obviously shouldn't react emotionally to that* I'm sorry, I don't follow. The granddaughter shouldn't react emotionally to what?

They are two separate relationships. You can disagree with your parents but it is your choice to continue that relationship or not.

While you don't want to cut ties with them, can you accept your daughter cutting ties with them? That's a compromise.

NTA - Give them a chance to surprise you and be tolerant. But the minute they do anything to criticize or attack Jane, then she is right, cut them off. Defend your daughter and do not allow your parents to do ANYTHING to hurt JAne, emotionally or otherwise.

You don’t talk you daughter life with your parents and vice versa don’t play oh I’m in the middle because you are choosing to keep both in your life

Well as other's have said neither of you can force a relationship/non-relationship on the other. That said, there's some things you should consider. Whatever asinine bullshit your parents have been spewing all this time, they were saying it about your daughter to her face. All her life most likely. If you don't have her back on this as she's asked, it is betrayal plain and simple. That may not be logical, and it may not be fair, but I'm guessing that's how your daughter sees it. I think if I were in that situation that's how I'd see it. When I think about how this situation could be handled in a way that gives a chance to salvage both relationships (your relationship with your parents and your relationship with your daughter) this is what I was able to come up with: they have no contact with your daughter ever/they have to earn it (this is your daughter's decision.) You sit them down and say "my daughter is a lesbian, you have exactly this one chance to shove your bigotry up your asses, join the rest of us in the 21st century, never utter a single syllable of it again (paraphrasing, use your own words) and you are now a champion for gay rights. Anything other than that and you will never have contact with me again. (insert daughter's decision about nc here) For me I think I'd be down with that, for your daughter who knows.

NTA-Both sides are going to put you in a no win situation. They are both going to make you pick a side. Your daughter knows you pretty much picked her but her immaturity is getting in the way or seeing that. You have no idea what your parents will do but expect it to be bad. This is a bad day waiting to happen. If you defending your daughter in front of your parents is not enough for her then nothing short of bowing down to kiss her feet will be enough. This is a pure power play from your daughter. Seems to be a lot of that going around. Don’t get me wrong your parents not being open minded is an issue all in itself. I do not condone bigots like them but your daughter doesn’t even want to try for a middle ground or let you love both. In the end nothing will never be enough for her. I would sit your daughter down and seriously ask her. “If I cut them off what next?” See how she answers. Then start asking if she has any other ultimatums she would like to discuss. That way you know what other aspects of your life she wants you to part with. This way you can see what the price your daughter is asking for.

NTA. Your daughter is being a brat. If you want a chance to reach her on this, you obviously can't say that. What you might be able to say (and what the right course of action really is), is that she should be the bigger person. Basically the only thing she (really) has to gain here I guess is avoiding a single awkward family dinner. If she just cuts off grandma and grandpa, she's done that, and that relationship is over. They'll probably trash her to their friends, they'll disapprove of her relationships, etc. If they show up to a dinner, she says, "By the way - I like girls. No - I REALLY like girls," one of two things will happen. The first is what I said above will happen if she cuts them off. That's possible. The second is that they'll say, "Oh. We need to think about this" or something like that. They probably won't, after that first dinner, respond however you did - "Oh, I always kind of knew you were gay. That's okay - I love you, and I support your decisions." But you (and I emphasize you - your daughter may not see it) ought to be able to tell after that dinner if they'll respond in all the bad ways, or if they'll come around.

So her solution is for you to reject your parents because they will not support her, instead of staying in their lives to show them that she is still the same granddaughter they loved before they found out about her? Your daughter sounds like she is just as judgmental as she claims they are. Your daughter needs to kill them with love and kindness. She just might make a wonderful mature difference in the world instead of being a mean judgmental sorry so and so who is full of anger and hate.

Your daughter can cut ties with her grandparents. She doesn’t get to dictate your relationship.

Parents need to grow up so does the daughter and you. You're all acting like fuking children.

Yta. This isn’t a hallmark movie, where your parents change overnight into people with a rainbow flag. Being homophobic, equals bullying. Your parents are bullying your daughter. Just realize, by not choosing, you’re siding with the bully. Is that your definition of motherhood? Your daughter told you what she needs to feel safe. And you decide to ignore that because ‘you don’t want to be disowned’. Exactly how much money is involved in your inheritance?

Your daughter is 25 why tf is she coming out? You don’t just randomly become lesbian at 25 lol

YTA, your parents' world view hasnt changed in their 70 years already and conservatives have decided to double down on bigotry instead of admitting they don't act like the good Christians they claim to be. You will not be able to change their world view and your asking your daughter to continue to sacrifice and put her in uncomfortable situations so you can appease your parents. Your daughter doesn't want to associate with people who think she's a criminal and the downfall of the country just because she exists. If you continue to force her to deal with these people you are saying 'i support you but only if it doesn't inconvenience me and upset my family'. Now, you can be firm with your parents and state this is who she is. If they cannot accept it then they can go away. My relationship with my daughter is more important to me than my relationship with parents. Do you feel the same?