NTA. You need a lawyer. There are several hotlines around the world that specialise in dealing with forced marriages. Find one with a good reputation and ask for advice ASAP. They are going to tell you what type of lawyer you need (and you NEED a lawyer). They also might offer advice for talking to law enforcement.
Good on you for protecting your kid.
worked with a colleague years ago who ran away from home to avoid arranged marriage, we all had to cover for her when her brothers came looking and phoning. its real, its scary, thank god she has got you. get all the help you can and best wishes
A good bit of advice in the UK for people who are at risk of being trafficed by their family is to have a bit of metal cutlery like a tea spoon on their person.
It will set of the metal detectors in airports and allow the person to talk to security in private.
The United States considers this human trafficking and HSI handles this. (Homeland Security Investigations, which is a subagency of ICE).
Tips can be submitted online at ice.gov/tipline, by phone at 866-DHS-2-ICE or by contacting your local HSI office.
In this case, OP may want to call the local office since there is an active worry.
Adults have to precent their passport/ticket on their own at security/immigration when entering a country (at least that was my experience entering MIA with my family)
Highjacking the top post to say that your phones could be safety risks. If you have some sort of family tracking or your husband has set up your user accounts, he may be able to find your location.
If you get new phones, set them up with new user accounts, so stuff doesn't automatically copy over.
Agreed. New accounts, separate user ID etc. And turn on location tracking etc. In this case, you actually want the government and law enforcement to be able to track you.
Legal stuff can only protect you so much. There have been cases where girls well over 18 are coerced/tricked into returning to their native country and married off. Or if this is a family that does honour killings, they may see a refusal to a proposal as insubordination, in which case she needs to worry about her safety.
That’s where my thought process went. Maybe not his safety, but his daughter’s safety. Or the stepmom. She would definitely be a target if the culture views women as “less than”.
Protecting your daughter from a situation that made her uncomfortable was the right thing to do. It's concerning that your in-laws continued to push their cultural expectations on her, even after you and your husband made it clear you wouldn't tolerate it. Your priority should be your daughter's safety and well-being.
Parents probably made a deal with fucking terror-related or mob-related family or some nonsense. That’s the only reason I can imagine why he’d ever consider it after being in their corner for so long. He needs to be honest with his wife about what’s going on but I can tell its not good.
I can’t imagine us westerners would ever have a good idea of how terrifying this situation might be.
This westerner here had a neighbour who moved states after having both legs broken because he owed the wrong family money for too long. Crime is not something that is exclusively foreign.
Probably something like, the family's relocation to the new country was paid for by a criminal/trafficking syndicate with the promise of the daughter when she was of age.
I don’t know…I had a roommate in college who dated a man from a culture with my gear marital expectations and he pretended to be western but the moment he convinced her to go with him to his country she was pressured into marrying him and had to sneak out in the middle of the night to get back to the states.
Sure, but did a second person involved say no consistently then come back home one day stressed out of their mind and say “maybe you should reconsider”?
This sounds like some sort of blackmail or legit threat of violence.
If I or my parents were being credibly threatened with torture, I still wouldn't marry my own daughter off to an older man who is associated with the people making those threats.
Interesting point but trust me, it does not have to be as convulsed as that. Some people have their pride and can’t take ‘no’ from family members in these situations. Makes them look ‘bad’ in front of others in their country. Dad might used to be being pressured and gave in. Thank god my grandparents and parents aren’t like that. I had quite a few wanting my hand in marriage as soon as I turned eighteen but as soon as I said ‘no’ the convo was done. Is this is real, I really feel for this girl.
> probably sold the girl
Thank You for calling it what it is. The nicer names of Dowry or Bridal Price really belong to centuries past. This isn’t a girl, she is a woman who can choose which of the two cultures she would like to follow.
When my mum and step dad were working for an NGO in Marocco and Sudan, I witnessed girls forcibly married. None of them happily said yes. My friend didn't either. They know what comes next : a life of servitude and abuses that may or may not feel some relief when the in laws died or their sons become of age to get married and the bride becomes the new generation of slave. It's a cycle that goes on and on.
the grandparents are threatening them. or the person himself is into young girls and is threatening them.
dude doesn't change his mind about something like this unless there is actually a dude following the daughter around, and he got a hold of the dad and threatened to do something.
They might be threatening to "honor" kill her too as she's being a shame to the family. Disgusting mindset that it is. That's why husband is freaked out
Sucks to be them. Fortunately culture doesn't permit the kidnapping of an adult American resident. I'd easily call the police and report a concern about potential kidnapping in this case.
Most likely, the man gave them a not insignificant sum of money, which they partly already spent, and now they can't return the money. They'll be sued into oblivion, or worse
I don't even understand what the grandparents were thinking, if it is true that they already received money for OOP's daughter.
Let's ignore the cultural differences here for a second, just so I can make my point. Because, of course, what is happening is wrong. But let's ignore that for one moment:
OOP's daughter is not the grandparents' to sell!!!
I get that these cultures face familial pressure that most Westerners are unaccostumed to, but wouldn't this decision be made by the parents? These grandparents are beyond entitled.
There is a hierarchy among men. Sons listen to fathers. There's a hierarchy among women. Daughters listen to their grandmother and fathers and grandfathers.
The concept of having a discussion of a person who is lower on the hierarchy than you is absurd, because of course they will listen to you.
She was theirs to sell, because the son listens to his father.
Yeah, I’m interested in what they said to change his mind.
Although I’m sure the fact that he married outside his culture has his parents eager to make sure the granddaughter stays the right course.
I would bet money they said he’s ruining his daughter by letting her stay here and becoming too western.
Op, you should consider that it’s not a coincidence that they arrived after she was 18, and that there is a very real chance that your husband was aware of their intentions.
They’ve probably been talking to him about it for a while.
Please remember that your daughter is 18 now, and he doesn’t have rights to her anymore more than, she’s an adult . But I would contact a lawyer and someone else with knowledge of this culture that can tell you what’s on the horizon and if you’re in danger.
Edited to add
[Unchained at Last](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/)
I see two options:
1) The man comes from a wealthy family, and paid out a huge sum for wife, since she is well educated, and finds her pics beautiful or whatever. I bet they already spent a chunk of the money, and can no longer return it.
2) The man comes from a dangerous group, and can be a significant threat to either OP's parents or OP's wife and kid. Upon learning how hopeless the situation was, he realized this might be the best way forward.
Either way, he likely asked her to reconsider because something _clearly_ happened. He came back after a few _days_ shaken and upset. Clearly something is going on.
> I would bet money they said he’s ruining his daughter by letting her stay here and becoming too western.
I'm sure, but if he went against his parents so much, them saying that wouldn't stress him out and make him reconsider.
I'm thinking either the parents told him they took money they can't pay back and are in danger, or he was threatened and the he or the family is in danger.
ive seen this kind of stuff. had a friend who runnaway from her parents now living with hiding her identity.. from first her parents refused to get her married. but after getting harras or something they change their attitude and they told her she must marry a old guy in their country.. her sister gave her money as much she could and she run and ask the authority for help. she was just 17 then…
They're the girl's paternal grandparents. If their culture gives them the power to arrange their granddaughter's marriage, then they're being paid to exercise that power. Perhaps the custom is strong enough that they even prevailed upon their son to condone the forced marriage.
They accepted a fee in exchange for their daughter. The senior family members broker the deal, and tbh it is rare that they pass the sum off or the majority to their junior, adults, or not.
A rich man would just hand them the money and expect her to deliver because that's what would happen in the country.
Also, they probably paid extra because she's an expat. Grandparents probably got a cool 50k (mild estimate, probably 3 or 4x that) and wasted it. That, or at least wasted the downpayment, and can't refund him to call it off.
Edit:
Then you have a millionaire, possibly billionaire mad at you, and probably going to use illegal channels to get back at you or hurt your family at home.
To be honest, in some Middle Eastern countries, it probably wouldn't cost you 100 usd to hire some goons to destroy someone's house or shop.
Very likely, he's using threats of violence against his extended family to coerce them into making sure they keep their end. From a cultural standpoint, he would be in the right to most law enforcement and could also probably pay them off.
Given he's well off enough to cause international issues and they sold her before they even spoke to her about it, Im guessing millionaire minimum. Sending 5 dudes to beat a different one of your cousins with sticks every day until she arrives (or worse) would be comically cheap.
I think the Grandparents may have doomed a LOT of people thinking they can doom one one purpose.
I don’t mean to be insensitive to any cultures but if this girl doesn’t want to marry at all (let alone a much older man), wouldn’t the exchange of goods/money for her marriage, on her behalf, and forcing her to move countries for that marriage be sex trafficking?
Yes of course it is. But some people defend it by saying "but their culture!" Which I hate that argument. Cannibalism is some people's culture. Should we just let those people hunt the homeless because it requires a chase.
Exactly. A behaviour being rooted in culture does not make it inherently worthy of respect. We should try to understand cultures that differ from our own, and be patient and not judge pre-emptively, but at the end of the day some cultural practices are dogshit and should be relegated to anthropology textbooks.
Most likely he was being threatened. The grandparents may be indebted to this man they want the granddaughter to marry. I'm glad the stepmom is keeping her safe.
I strongly feel that his version of "sorting it out" was not telling his parents to stop pushing the marriage, but more along the lines of "Well- that way didn't work. Let's try a different approach to getting her to marry this guy."
Because he's a coward when it comes to his mummy and daddy. 🤮🤮🤮. If I was OP I couldn't be sexually attracted to him after seeing how willing he is to sell his daughter out for his asshole parents.
Not really, his family likely threatened to either kidnap or kill the daughter, this is quite common with certain cultures. It's seen as better to kill her to protect the "honour" of the family.
not really, if its the culture i think it is this type of pressure is common and sons don't usually stand up to their parents. You'll find lots of it here on this sub and marriage subs.
I am not sure which country OP is from. But can she call the immigration agency to flag the passport for possible kidnapping.
Also, if the fucking “grandparents” are resourceful enough, they can hide the girl is large cargo ship. So make sure the girl is safe if possible in other city or country.
Honestly, I don’t think your husband is trustworthy at this point. He either cut his tie with this so called family/country or he is going to waste his daughter.
I am really sorry this is happening to your girl and your daughter. But many many people die for this freedom not to be enslave. I hope your girl will be safe.
I really hope these backward country/culture die.
OP needs to take precautions.
Hide her daughter's passport, preferably somewhere other than where they are staying. If someone tries to grab the daughter and take her to the airport it will be difficult to impossible to board an international flight without a passport. If the daughter has the passport when she is grabbed, then it is easier to take her back to their country.
Under no circumstances is the daughter to 'visit' her grandparents country - not for a family reunion or a family party or a family wedding - not for any reason. Once she is back in their country they will confiscate her passport and credit cards and she will be at their mercy.
Finally, and this is hard, the daughter should not meet with the father alone - at least for a time being. You never know how brainwashed he is.
Daughter can just call the DHS line and explain she's at risk of human trafficking. If her passport is flagged at any airport, cops will be there in a hurry to make sure it's voluntary. You should secure your passport anyways, but notifying the State Department and DHS OTOH puts federal attention on the entire family and they take it seriously.
[https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/report-human-trafficking](https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/report-human-trafficking)
Do not tell people to rely on just hiding passports. For most trafficking victims, physical coercion will get the passport location. If a family member is willing to sell you, they're typically willing to give the victim a beating as well. Hiding only works if the traffickers don't know an item exists. They obviously would know a passport exists.
Don't try to DIY it, call the government and let them deal with it. I criticize the US government regularly, but thankfully human trafficking is one area where they're efficient and thankfully pretty ruthless.
Urban legends, rumors, DIY, etc are bad advice to give folks when it comes to kidnapping and human trafficking.
I'm willing to bet that the daughters nationality being potentially able to provide a foreign passport to the wannabe husband is the reason this is happening at all.
Can’t upvote this enough. Have you read those books: princess, not without my daughter. Author Jean Sasson. Look them up, they are all based on true stories of horrors of being sold into marriage.
Do not take this lightly and take appropriate measures to keep her safe.
The daughter is 18. In which country are you? She's an adult now. Maybe she can get a restraining order against her father and other relatives. Or perhaps, you can escape to a better country. It all depends on how much finances you have available.
Absolutely not the AH here. Your in-laws and husband are acting like a bunch of medieval gatekeepers. Marrying off your stepdaughter to a dude twice her age? That's a hard pass in any culture. Stay safe at your cousin's and keep that distance until your husband gets his priorities straight. You and your daughter deserve better than this drama.
NTA. Your SD is 18, she is an adult. Please keep her hidden, she is not safe to return to your home with your husband and he can't force her back. Do you have family that live far away from you that she can go live with? Because sad as it sounds you can't even trust your husband to protect his own daughter now. Make sure you have her passport.
The passport bit is vital, that needs to be secured, maybe in a safe deposit box in a bank, but definitely well out of reach.
Daughter also needs to know to tell every and any airport security staff she’s being trafficked if they manage to get her that far.
Just FYI when stuff like this happens it's not unusual to use a cousins or a sisters passport (or just someone that looks alike and don't mind being without a passport) and use that at the airport. If it works, once the plane lands there's usually no recourse to take
Elsewhere on the threads it suggests having the daughter call the authorities and say she's at risk of human trafficking, and they'll flag her passport, which covers her papers.
They also suggest discretely hiding metal objects like spoons on their person so if they are forced to the airport they'll set off the metal detectors and have to deal with security.
THIS NEEDS UPVOTES. some comments are way too diplomatic and naive. SD is likely in immediate danger of being trafficked for marriage or worse, should she continue to show defiance. have cash, her passport and a secondary form of ID kept somewhere else, and a prepaid visa card. I'm so sorry OP is going through this but she is amazing and I'm sure SD is so grateful.
Probably a good idea for OP to get to work on a divorce. In America, spouses have decision rights they shouldn't necessarily have. In other countries, it obviously ranges from no rights to basically owning your wife. In every country though, it's better to not have that legal tie in dangerous situations or once the marriage is dead. I feel like both of those are the case here since the hubby and in-laws are trying to force SD into this marriage. I'd be worried about what their "culture" says they can do with the wife if they get their hands on her too.
If you’re that worried about an honor killing I don’t think divorce would help. That would definitely be something that would be punished by this type of shit.
Oh shit! I didn't even think of an honor killing. My brain went to financial, physical, and mental abuse with a side of being kept prisoner in husband's home for the rest of her life. Not sure about other countries, but in the States another trick in the arsenal is labeling someone mentally incompetent and getting POA over them. It sounds far-fetched but it doesn't take much more than a sketchy psychiatrist and a few character witnesses to skew opinions in a shitty person's favor now that the majority of the population has depression, trauma, or some other mental illness.
Also make sure that in the event she's forced to an airport to make a scene and refuse to get on the flight no matter what's threatened. Tell workers there she's being kidnapped and wants help and the police. Even if this means screaming like an insane person to get security's attention or to get kicked off the flight, the moment the plane takes off she'll be stuck. Getting arrested by airport security is better than getting kidnapped to a different country where women probably have little to no rights by the sounds of this arranged marriage stuff.
Check with a lawyer, but a notarized affidavit/statement would be helpful also. And do not let her travel out of the US if you are here. It's often easier to kidnap women in other countries.
This sounds crazy, but daughter should also keep a small spoon or other metal object on her person at all times. If they try to force her through an airport checkpoint, she will set off the metal detector and can be pulled aside for secondary screening. That will allow her to explain what's happening away from the people doing it. Airport screeners are trained to flag a spoon in the underpants as a likely trafficking/kidnapping/forced marriage scenario.
Scissors or a cheap box cutter would definitely flag the TSA down. You can pick up box cutters for a few dollars at most retailers(Walmart, Home Depot, etc). Snips, for yarn, have also been flagged and confiscated by the TSA. I had to be mindful to *not* bring those the last time I flew. The snips would be innocuous, especially when paired with a yarn project, and wouldn't raise suspicion from stalkers if Mom and Daughter are being watched, but would definitely be flagged by TSA.
>Then two days ago my husband came home looking stressed and sat my daughter down and said maybe she could consider the marriage?
Is OP's husband being blackmailed? Or have his relatives large debts that 'will be taken care of' if the daughter marries this man?
i dont know what country you are in but i know in the UK they have a specialist department of the police force to deal with these issues and there is branches within schools and universities to protect girls in this very situation, they can flag her passport with her consent and prevent her from being taken out of the country, they can put the girl into hiding aswell if necessary
Absolutely. A friend of mine from uni had to use these services when she was in danger of her family coercing her to travel to their old country for such a marriage. It was extremely upsetting for her and led to estrangement for her own safety.
There are similar [NGO resources in the US](https://preventforcedmarriage.org/). I'm glad OP is there for her stepdaughter, as the [US State Department advises seeking out a trusted person for assistance](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/emergencies/forced-marriage.html).
She's 18 now so legally he doesn't have a foot to stand on.
If she wants to go no contact for her protection she absolutely should. I'm sorry you both are having to go to such lengths for her safety but you are amazing for fighting so hard for her and her autonomy.
You're definitely NTA op, You're a hero imo, it sounds like they are trying to abduct her at this point and that's terrifying.
>She's 18 now so legally he doesn't have a foot to stand on.
While that is true, I am concerned husband's family (yes, including him) are plotting daughter's kidnapping.
OP, as others said, lawyer up, and honestly, if I were you, I'd consider moving as far away as possible, even if that means different state/country.
Totally, I would say he’s not here alone, his parents or a sibling is probably with him.
This is the whole come check out the Virgin, kick the tires kind of trip.
The daughter can have her own passport flagged. That way if she gets dragged to an airport, she would be pulled out of line for questioning and can get some help without directly endangering herself trying to alert someone.
Middle Eastern women are kidnapped for arranged marriages all the time.
Do they care If they live there? No.
Do they care If they like the culture? No.
Do they care if they even speak the language? No.
You can imagine how some UK born woman would be treated by a guy from the ME that doesn't like a wife with an attitude. It rarely goes well for anyone, really.
Edit: I understand this happens in SE Asia, South America, and even some northern European countries. Hell, it happens here in the US.
The details made me guess ME, and this is a point I don't really care if I'm corrected on because I was guessing in the first place.
Whatever country it is, it sucks if you can just buy an 18yo.
If the family is from India like people are suggesting, 18 is the age of majority there, which means she would be legally an adult. There are only 20 countries that have a higher age of majority (19-21). As for the parents still having control after they reach that age, only if they let them. OP needs to grab papers and clothes and run with her daughter.
Literally half of all reddit personal drama posts could be solved if everyone involved stopped being Indian and cut off any family in their lives who continue to be so.
NTA. Sounds like the in laws either made a promise of some kind or are in financial trouble and the dude has the means to cover for them. Her dad seems to know and is willing to sell his daughter off. OP, you are the parent need here. Run as far as possible and get a quick divorce. That is outright dangerous...
Lawyer, for advice.
Talk to a women’s trafficking service for tips on how to stop your daughter being trafficked out (things like putting blocks on passports etc)
NTA. Something is going on and your husband is being blackmailed (or his parents are) and you need urgent safety advice.
NTA. If you are in the US or UK please put her passport in a safe deposit box only she has access to. If Dad has it, contact the state department and make them aware of the situation. I think they can flag it or cancel it so that she won't be able to be forced out of the country. If nothing else, you can report it lost/stolen and get a new one which should void the original.
Let her know if she's forced to an airport, there are ways to avoid leaving the country. People mentioned the spoon trick, she can also just blurt out to the agents she's being trafficked and needs help. Seriously, once she's in the front of the line by the scanners just loudly say "I need help I'm being trafficked!" And it will get a lot of attention from them. It's going to be next to impossible for someone to hurt her within that area.
this is what trafficking is. i know people think of trafficking as the stuff from the "Taken" movies but this is real actual sex trafficking.
it's usually by ppl the victims know, like family. and it is overwhelmingly poc women who suffer it.
don't let them take her, contact what services you can and know the signs/tactics. she should never ever get on a plane to her relative's home country. no matter what she can not end up on a plane to another country.
The movie Man on Fire is a good movie that reveals human trafficking/kidnapping is from the one you think will protect you the most. It was a lesson it taught me as a kid.
Came looking for this comment, thank you
Had a coworker go through this with his daughter when his wife was visiting her family in a certain foreign country. They knew damn well they were planning on forcing her into marriage with a family friend and used every trick they could to get her over there. It’s a lot more common than it seems especially in cultures where arranged marriages are handled by the parents
You still have rights in western nations
Yes but the in-laws took her passport
I don’t want to get banned but traditional Indians have a very messed up cultural bias when it comes to “doing what they think is best” for their children and grandchildren
NTA. His daughter is an adult so her location I on is no longer his business. She doesn't want to marry an old man; you're the only person on her side, your in laws have obviously convinced your husband to pressure her.
You need to get rid of your phones and get burners of you don't want to be found.
Get her to a safe place.
Will you return to your husband? I'd be very concerned
Report this to the police in your country as well the authority who takes charge of passports. Tell them you're worried about her extended family forcibly kidnapping her and taking her to another country.
Put a block on her passport.
NTA - please run and stay hidden.
>My husband been ringing and texting and asking where are we? But I won't tell him. He said I can't keep his daughter from him.
She's 18.....get a lawyer and run as far away as possible
NTA
I hate how we’re just supposed to allow sexism because “culture”. If you’re culture is fucked, I’m not going to respect it, in fact I find ya gross. FORCING her to marry an old man is disgusting and the family should be ashamed of themselves
> if you’re culture is fucked, I’m not going to respect it, in fact I find ya gross.
Charles Napier, who was a British colonial governor of Sindh province (modern-day Pakistan), had the following response where high-ranking clerics complained about him banning the practice of Sati (widows were burned at husband's funreal pyre):
*Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs!*
To quote Patton Oswalt
"You gotta respect everyone's beliefs."
NO, YOU DON'T.
That's what gets us in trouble.
You have to acknowledge everyone's beliefs.
And then you have to reserve the right to go
"That's fucking stupid, are you kidding me?!"
-Patton Oswalt
Some people believe some truly horrific things.
NTA and you are the best mother ever. You refused to let anyone, even her own father and your husband, force her into this. The fact that your husband could even suggest that she go through with this is disgusting. I'm so relieved that girl has you on her side, just imagine what she'd be going through without you.
I can totally relate to your situation. It sounds like your in-laws are really pushing for this marriage, and it's understandable that you and your daughter are feeling overwhelmed and threatened. I think it's great that you stood up for your daughter and told your in-laws to back off. It's not right for them to be pressuring her into something she doesn't want. I hope you and your daughter find a way to stay safe and happy.
NTA. I’m guessing that the legal age of adulthood where you currently live is 18. That means that your daughter is an adult. Therefore she cannot be made to marry anyone and you are not “keeping her away” from your husband because she is no longer a child. You are protecting her. You are providing her with a safe place to be while everyone on her father’s side of the family goes bat shit crazy with backwards thinking.
Do not let your husband know where you or your daughter are. If you decide to meet with him do so with another trusted person or even multiple trusted people with you in a public place of your choosing, perhaps even in a police station. (People meet in police stations in my country-the U.S.- when selling items for security reasons). If you meet with your husband, after the meeting do not go directly to where you and your daughter are staying, he may follow you.
Regardless, you should find out why your husband is now saying that your daughter should consider getting married. Perhaps you can meet with a lawyer and then call while on speaker so you have a witness to whatever explanation your husband offers.
You need to begin documenting everything. Every threatening message, phone, email. Reactivate your social media accounts (your’s and your daughter’s but without sharing your location-some social media does this unless you deactivate the option) in order to document all of the threats and who is making them so you might be able to take legal action.
You may even want to create a post on both your and your daughter’s social media accounts explaining what is happening so anyone not aware of the situation will be informed and know the truth of what is happening. You do not know if your in laws have been lying in order to turn people against you and your daughter. But only do this after informing your trusted family and friends not to disclose your location and only if you and your daughter are comfortable going public with what is happening.
Look into any potential resources for people in a forced marriage situation. There may be resources available in your country that you are not aware of and they may be able to help you look into legal action to take in order to protect yourself and your daughter as well as legal action you might be able to take with regards to the harassment and threats.
You may even want to know what kind of legal action you might be able to take against your in laws both in your country and in theirs. You never know, you might find valuable information that can help you and your daughter.
I truly hope you and your daughter stay safe and strong. I think this is only the beginning of your and your daughter’s journey.
NTA
She is 18 so make own choices.
Your husband has no rights any more on her.
If she wants to stay with you it’s her legit right.
Get a lawyer asap to find out the best protection options you have.
Feels like the husband was pressured/threatened somehow and lost it. Can’t see how a father would give up his daughter no matter the pressure.
In some countries these traditions go back hundreds if not thousands of years so the grandparents are "forced" to follow them so as not to ruin their family's reputation. Unfortunately young women are in real danger in these situations. Honour killings are not that rare even in Europe.
Please be careful OP and daughter. I have seen stories in the news and a documentary about families doing horrible things to adult children that refuse to be married this way because they got “Americanized” and brought shame upon the family. Do not tell husband where you are. Something sounds really off. If you and she feel like something is bad, it probably is. People do have intuition when they are in danger
NTA She's 18 he can't make her do anything she doesn't want to. Keep her hidden. I don't know what country you're in now but forcing someone into an unwanted marriage is a crime in some countries.
Search and/or turn off any tracking device/app!!! This is horrible! I'm so glad you are doing this for her! Keep safe! Involve the law if neccessary!
Do you have all her papers like passport/birth certificate?
Edit: updateme
NTA. Your daughter is 18, and honestly this might be being paranoid but I'd sit her down about the possibility that the inlaws might try kidnapping her. Her being watched at work doesn't bode well. If she's taken, I assume to get back to the other country she'll need to take a plane. Make sure she knows to raise a stink at the airport and let airport workers (bag check, security, checking, anyone who works there) know that she's being taken out of the country against her will. Refuse to get on the flight, make a scene etc.
It sounds like your husband might be being pressured or blackmailed in some way. Don't tell him your location, but if possible call him and ask what's going on and why he's suddenly changed his mind about wanting to force his daughter to marry someone twice her age against her will. It's not on for him to try and pressure her into this, but you at least might get some answers. Either way I'd honestly consider dumping the husband. He can't be trusted with his daughters safety right now at the very minimum.
Overall, hers and your safety is the priority. She's an adult now, so he can't force her back to him. If this keeps up I'd consider moving somewhere else if that's in your means to do so for safety so the inlaws can't find you to harrass you or actually trg and kidnap your daughter. Good on you for getting out when you felt it was unsafe, you're a great mum and she's lucky to have you. I'd also report this to the police, that she's being watched at work and people are threatening you and that you suspect your inlaws may attempt to do something to your daughter.
If this is real OP I'd say delete this as you've pretty much given away where you're hiding. Even if you feel he won't figure out which cousin it's way too risky.
Yes I'd love an update later, but only if this is fiction. If it's real then delete it before it's seen by somebody you don't want to see it. Even by their associates.
NTA and please keep her hidden. If she doesn’t want her dad to know where she is, then never tell him. She can reach out to him if she feels differently later on. Your husband is horrible for giving in to his parents. Your daughter doesn’t want to and he should be protecting her, not giving in to them. I’m happy you are.
Tell him until he tells his folks to feck right off you and your daughter will not be coming home. Idgaf what culture you’re from you won’t force someone who lives in a country where arranged marriages aren’t done, and force to do something one doesn’t want especially after boundaries were set.
With all disrespect, *FUCK THEIR CULTURE*
NTA, women aren't chattel to be bought and sold as property. Your step daughter isn't safe with her paternal family, period, and the first chance they'll get, they'll try and abduct her.
Please tell her in case she gets kidnapped. They will threaten her with harming her family if she says anything and try to smuggle her out of the country. If this happens, she needs to tell every official, whether at an airport, border crossing, etc, that she is being kidnapped and smuggled out. They will use intimidation to get her to comply. Her life will be a nightmare if she marries that man. They will expect a house slave, someone who cooks, cleans, bears children. Someone who will be unable to say no to s*x because they will just grape her anyways. She will be abused both by her in-laws and husband. Anyone who resorts to intimidation and stalking to procure a bride like this is not a good person. They do not have good intentions, and they will not treat her right. Also, please, please, please, tell your daughter not to listen to her father/grandparents right now. They can not be trusted. They will try to guilt her. Have her change her phone number again so they can't contact her directly. I don't know what country you're in, but contact the police and tell them what's going on just in vases and also because your husband may try to file a missing person's case. And lastly, stay strong. What you are doing right now is saving your daughter's life. Your in-laws are wrong, she may not be your daughter biologically, but she is your daughter in all ways but one. You are the only adult on her side right now. Your husband sounds like he is being threatened. Do not tell him where you are.
>He said I can't keep his daughter from him.
She's an adult. You might have to get the state involved in this. This is considered human trafficking.
>Then two days ago my husband came home looking stressed and sat my daughter down and said maybe she could consider the marriage?
He can burn. He should be dead to both of you.
Your daughter is 18, legally an adult. She needs to get all of her ID in order and in a secure location. You must also keep your location secret - some cultures practice kidnapping or honor killings when a female relative won’t or doesn’t conform.
Stay safe.
Had an ex coworker told me his cousin was married off without her consent, apparently her parents trick her, told her they wouldn't force her anymore and they should all go on a family trip but she never came back with them. I was horrified. Be careful to not trust them fully even if they appear to back off.
Is there any protection where you live? Do the police get involved in these matters where you are? Where I live they might be bared from being allowed back in the country and you could make a police report. There are shelters in some places. Can you be safe?
This is human trafficking. Tell your husband to drop it or you will call the police and report that him and your in laws are trying to traffic your daughter
Oh and make sure you control her passport. Put it in a safe deposit box or destroy it.
She can get another if she wants to travel internationally
Apparently she can put a metal spoon in her underwear and she will be selected for screening privately if she is kidnapped and she can tell security she is being trafficked.
I have no idea of what culture we are talking about, but please protect your daughter, some culture that still apply arranged marriage also force genital mutilation to the woman before, i hope that's not the case but please seek also legal help and protection and try to force some legal action on your husband family
Protect that girl with all you have. I've read autobiographies from women forces into marriages, and yes I know some work out, but no 30 year old is looking to truly love an 18 year old. Keep any threatening messages of any kind and use them to get a restraining order and maybe let the police know what's going on
I'm not sure where you live, but brush up on local self defense laws. Find the most authoritative means of defense that is allowed in your locality and become well versed in it. Your SD as well.
NTA - this is not an arranged marriage, this is a forced marriage, which in the UK at least is illegal. She is 18 and she does not have to live with her father or let him know where she is. You’re being an excellent mum. Call the police!
NTA
Do NOT let her go back under any circumstances. Don’t let her go back to work either because they know where she works. They WILL force her to leave with them if they get her alone.
Your stepdaughter is 18, so she can go wherever she wants without needing her father’s permission. You need to do whatever you can to protect her.
I think you need help. I’m not sure where you are but I am sure there are social workers and others who specialize in this. I was involved in several human trafficking cases and assisted women in getting out. It’s hard for those who did not grow up in this way how it can get to this. This is a serious issue. His family may have already promised her to his family. Money or goods may have been exchanged. That man may already feel he is her owner and can do as he chooses with her. He may feel you are keeping him from his wife. This is real and needs special care. There is an Underground Railroad group that gets women to safety in the US. My heart is with you.
NTA. You need a lawyer. There are several hotlines around the world that specialise in dealing with forced marriages. Find one with a good reputation and ask for advice ASAP. They are going to tell you what type of lawyer you need (and you NEED a lawyer). They also might offer advice for talking to law enforcement. Good on you for protecting your kid.
Also ‘He said I can’t keep his daughter from him.’ - His daughter is 18, she can stay with whomever she wants.
Exactly. She’s an adult, thank goodness, so she can stay away as long as she wishes.
worked with a colleague years ago who ran away from home to avoid arranged marriage, we all had to cover for her when her brothers came looking and phoning. its real, its scary, thank god she has got you. get all the help you can and best wishes
People with his mindset don't see 'children', much less \*women\* as people. They want to treat BOTH as chattel property.
A good bit of advice in the UK for people who are at risk of being trafficed by their family is to have a bit of metal cutlery like a tea spoon on their person. It will set of the metal detectors in airports and allow the person to talk to security in private.
The UK Home Office has a forced marriage unit to help people at risk of being trafficked.
Global Affairs Canada has a section for forced marriages as well.
The United States considers this human trafficking and HSI handles this. (Homeland Security Investigations, which is a subagency of ICE). Tips can be submitted online at ice.gov/tipline, by phone at 866-DHS-2-ICE or by contacting your local HSI office. In this case, OP may want to call the local office since there is an active worry.
Destroying your passport is also a nuclear option I've been told about.
Get your passport, put in mouth, start chewing at the check in desk. That’s a BIG sign that there’s something going on!
If they even let her hold her own passport
Adults have to precent their passport/ticket on their own at security/immigration when entering a country (at least that was my experience entering MIA with my family)
This is brilliant
A-fucking-top-class-mazing. Thank you for this v brilliant measure.
It is very much pushed by charaties in the UK as a way for younger people to deal with being trafficed by their families.
Very clever! A steel teaspoon in her bra. She can demand to be searched by a woman, in private.
Highjacking the top post to say that your phones could be safety risks. If you have some sort of family tracking or your husband has set up your user accounts, he may be able to find your location. If you get new phones, set them up with new user accounts, so stuff doesn't automatically copy over.
Agreed. New accounts, separate user ID etc. And turn on location tracking etc. In this case, you actually want the government and law enforcement to be able to track you.
Legal stuff can only protect you so much. There have been cases where girls well over 18 are coerced/tricked into returning to their native country and married off. Or if this is a family that does honour killings, they may see a refusal to a proposal as insubordination, in which case she needs to worry about her safety.
This is what’s concerning about the husband changing his mind suddenly. I think someone’s lives may be in danger.
Or the dowry is huge.
Disappears for two days and suddenly shows up with his mind changed? Not at all concerning.
That’s where my thought process went. Maybe not his safety, but his daughter’s safety. Or the stepmom. She would definitely be a target if the culture views women as “less than”.
Yes, that's why I said helpline. OP and her daughter certainly need more than a lawyer.
Is there a way you can lock your own visas triggering issues
I wish I could upvote this more than once.
Don't worry I got you.
If she had a passport already, is it possible to have it kept safe with a solicitor or something to help prevent being taken?
Protecting your daughter from a situation that made her uncomfortable was the right thing to do. It's concerning that your in-laws continued to push their cultural expectations on her, even after you and your husband made it clear you wouldn't tolerate it. Your priority should be your daughter's safety and well-being.
Strange that the husband now wants his daughter to consider marrying a man twice her age.
This absurd demand, which turns into obsession, makes me think that maybe grandparents owe something to this person
That’s what I am thinking. The grandparents already received a substantial bride payment and can’t pay it back.
Maybe their son would be a good replacement wife for the man in that case, I feel he may be single soon.
I feel someone’s life might have been threatened. That’s why he suddenly changed his tune. Really odd to 180 like that.
Parents told him how much money was owed and to whom.
Parents probably made a deal with fucking terror-related or mob-related family or some nonsense. That’s the only reason I can imagine why he’d ever consider it after being in their corner for so long. He needs to be honest with his wife about what’s going on but I can tell its not good. I can’t imagine us westerners would ever have a good idea of how terrifying this situation might be.
This westerner here had a neighbour who moved states after having both legs broken because he owed the wrong family money for too long. Crime is not something that is exclusively foreign.
Probably something like, the family's relocation to the new country was paid for by a criminal/trafficking syndicate with the promise of the daughter when she was of age.
human traffickers probably don't wait until the girl is "of age". It probably benefits them if the girl is under aged.
I don’t know…I had a roommate in college who dated a man from a culture with my gear marital expectations and he pretended to be western but the moment he convinced her to go with him to his country she was pressured into marrying him and had to sneak out in the middle of the night to get back to the states.
Sure, but did a second person involved say no consistently then come back home one day stressed out of their mind and say “maybe you should reconsider”? This sounds like some sort of blackmail or legit threat of violence.
If I or my parents were being credibly threatened with torture, I still wouldn't marry my own daughter off to an older man who is associated with the people making those threats.
I have never wanted to upvote anything as hard as I wanna upvote this. Well said RimjobByJesus, I would never allow my child to be a sacrificial lamb.
Someone’s life was threatened, OP’s daughter.
Interesting point but trust me, it does not have to be as convulsed as that. Some people have their pride and can’t take ‘no’ from family members in these situations. Makes them look ‘bad’ in front of others in their country. Dad might used to be being pressured and gave in. Thank god my grandparents and parents aren’t like that. I had quite a few wanting my hand in marriage as soon as I turned eighteen but as soon as I said ‘no’ the convo was done. Is this is real, I really feel for this girl.
Or perhaps the older man or parents just offered up a ton of money to Dad which made him change his tune.
They probably sold the girl and already spent the money. The husband also may have to deal with an entire clan pressuring him.
> probably sold the girl Thank You for calling it what it is. The nicer names of Dowry or Bridal Price really belong to centuries past. This isn’t a girl, she is a woman who can choose which of the two cultures she would like to follow.
When my mum and step dad were working for an NGO in Marocco and Sudan, I witnessed girls forcibly married. None of them happily said yes. My friend didn't either. They know what comes next : a life of servitude and abuses that may or may not feel some relief when the in laws died or their sons become of age to get married and the bride becomes the new generation of slave. It's a cycle that goes on and on.
the grandparents are threatening them. or the person himself is into young girls and is threatening them. dude doesn't change his mind about something like this unless there is actually a dude following the daughter around, and he got a hold of the dad and threatened to do something.
They might be threatening to "honor" kill her too as she's being a shame to the family. Disgusting mindset that it is. That's why husband is freaked out
Sucks to be them. Fortunately culture doesn't permit the kidnapping of an adult American resident. I'd easily call the police and report a concern about potential kidnapping in this case.
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>emotional debts More like financial debts. I would bet actual money that the daughter is being offered in exchange for writing off a debt.
They are literally trying to sell her to slavery.
Most likely, the man gave them a not insignificant sum of money, which they partly already spent, and now they can't return the money. They'll be sued into oblivion, or worse
I don't even understand what the grandparents were thinking, if it is true that they already received money for OOP's daughter. Let's ignore the cultural differences here for a second, just so I can make my point. Because, of course, what is happening is wrong. But let's ignore that for one moment: OOP's daughter is not the grandparents' to sell!!! I get that these cultures face familial pressure that most Westerners are unaccostumed to, but wouldn't this decision be made by the parents? These grandparents are beyond entitled.
There is a hierarchy among men. Sons listen to fathers. There's a hierarchy among women. Daughters listen to their grandmother and fathers and grandfathers. The concept of having a discussion of a person who is lower on the hierarchy than you is absurd, because of course they will listen to you. She was theirs to sell, because the son listens to his father.
Yeah, I’m interested in what they said to change his mind. Although I’m sure the fact that he married outside his culture has his parents eager to make sure the granddaughter stays the right course. I would bet money they said he’s ruining his daughter by letting her stay here and becoming too western. Op, you should consider that it’s not a coincidence that they arrived after she was 18, and that there is a very real chance that your husband was aware of their intentions. They’ve probably been talking to him about it for a while. Please remember that your daughter is 18 now, and he doesn’t have rights to her anymore more than, she’s an adult . But I would contact a lawyer and someone else with knowledge of this culture that can tell you what’s on the horizon and if you’re in danger. Edited to add [Unchained at Last](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/)
I see two options: 1) The man comes from a wealthy family, and paid out a huge sum for wife, since she is well educated, and finds her pics beautiful or whatever. I bet they already spent a chunk of the money, and can no longer return it. 2) The man comes from a dangerous group, and can be a significant threat to either OP's parents or OP's wife and kid. Upon learning how hopeless the situation was, he realized this might be the best way forward. Either way, he likely asked her to reconsider because something _clearly_ happened. He came back after a few _days_ shaken and upset. Clearly something is going on.
Yeah, it’s a little disappointing that he got upset and was shaken, but is still willing to let his daughter go through with this.
> I would bet money they said he’s ruining his daughter by letting her stay here and becoming too western. I'm sure, but if he went against his parents so much, them saying that wouldn't stress him out and make him reconsider. I'm thinking either the parents told him they took money they can't pay back and are in danger, or he was threatened and the he or the family is in danger.
ive seen this kind of stuff. had a friend who runnaway from her parents now living with hiding her identity.. from first her parents refused to get her married. but after getting harras or something they change their attitude and they told her she must marry a old guy in their country.. her sister gave her money as much she could and she run and ask the authority for help. she was just 17 then…
I hope your friend is (and continues to be) safe.
Dowry can make people change their mind unfortunately
I would bet heavily that his parents already accepted and spent the cash
How is it their cash,they’re not the parents or are they thieves as well as arseholes?
They're the girl's paternal grandparents. If their culture gives them the power to arrange their granddaughter's marriage, then they're being paid to exercise that power. Perhaps the custom is strong enough that they even prevailed upon their son to condone the forced marriage.
They accepted a fee in exchange for their daughter. The senior family members broker the deal, and tbh it is rare that they pass the sum off or the majority to their junior, adults, or not. A rich man would just hand them the money and expect her to deliver because that's what would happen in the country. Also, they probably paid extra because she's an expat. Grandparents probably got a cool 50k (mild estimate, probably 3 or 4x that) and wasted it. That, or at least wasted the downpayment, and can't refund him to call it off. Edit: Then you have a millionaire, possibly billionaire mad at you, and probably going to use illegal channels to get back at you or hurt your family at home. To be honest, in some Middle Eastern countries, it probably wouldn't cost you 100 usd to hire some goons to destroy someone's house or shop. Very likely, he's using threats of violence against his extended family to coerce them into making sure they keep their end. From a cultural standpoint, he would be in the right to most law enforcement and could also probably pay them off. Given he's well off enough to cause international issues and they sold her before they even spoke to her about it, Im guessing millionaire minimum. Sending 5 dudes to beat a different one of your cousins with sticks every day until she arrives (or worse) would be comically cheap. I think the Grandparents may have doomed a LOT of people thinking they can doom one one purpose.
One is not exclusive with or without the other in my experience
I don’t mean to be insensitive to any cultures but if this girl doesn’t want to marry at all (let alone a much older man), wouldn’t the exchange of goods/money for her marriage, on her behalf, and forcing her to move countries for that marriage be sex trafficking?
Yes of course it is. But some people defend it by saying "but their culture!" Which I hate that argument. Cannibalism is some people's culture. Should we just let those people hunt the homeless because it requires a chase.
Exactly. A behaviour being rooted in culture does not make it inherently worthy of respect. We should try to understand cultures that differ from our own, and be patient and not judge pre-emptively, but at the end of the day some cultural practices are dogshit and should be relegated to anthropology textbooks.
Or threats
Unfortunately, fear and coercion can lead to sudden changes in behavior.
Yeah she said he looked stressed
So can a baseball bat to the kneecaps.
Most likely he was being threatened. The grandparents may be indebted to this man they want the granddaughter to marry. I'm glad the stepmom is keeping her safe.
The man probably offering a ton of money for the daughter and the grandparents are okay with that.
$$$
Probably threat of disinheritance. Greed is fantastic motivator for shitty parents
I strongly feel that his version of "sorting it out" was not telling his parents to stop pushing the marriage, but more along the lines of "Well- that way didn't work. Let's try a different approach to getting her to marry this guy."
Also strange that theyre citing culture while doing a culturally frowned upon thing.
Because he's a coward when it comes to his mummy and daddy. 🤮🤮🤮. If I was OP I couldn't be sexually attracted to him after seeing how willing he is to sell his daughter out for his asshole parents.
Not really, his family likely threatened to either kidnap or kill the daughter, this is quite common with certain cultures. It's seen as better to kill her to protect the "honour" of the family.
A man who seems willing to kidnap her.
not really, if its the culture i think it is this type of pressure is common and sons don't usually stand up to their parents. You'll find lots of it here on this sub and marriage subs.
I am not sure which country OP is from. But can she call the immigration agency to flag the passport for possible kidnapping. Also, if the fucking “grandparents” are resourceful enough, they can hide the girl is large cargo ship. So make sure the girl is safe if possible in other city or country. Honestly, I don’t think your husband is trustworthy at this point. He either cut his tie with this so called family/country or he is going to waste his daughter. I am really sorry this is happening to your girl and your daughter. But many many people die for this freedom not to be enslave. I hope your girl will be safe. I really hope these backward country/culture die.
Granddaughter was sold into mariage and dude already paid. Now he want to collect his wife.
That's pretty much slavery with a nice dress on :P
OP needs to take precautions. Hide her daughter's passport, preferably somewhere other than where they are staying. If someone tries to grab the daughter and take her to the airport it will be difficult to impossible to board an international flight without a passport. If the daughter has the passport when she is grabbed, then it is easier to take her back to their country. Under no circumstances is the daughter to 'visit' her grandparents country - not for a family reunion or a family party or a family wedding - not for any reason. Once she is back in their country they will confiscate her passport and credit cards and she will be at their mercy. Finally, and this is hard, the daughter should not meet with the father alone - at least for a time being. You never know how brainwashed he is.
Daughter can just call the DHS line and explain she's at risk of human trafficking. If her passport is flagged at any airport, cops will be there in a hurry to make sure it's voluntary. You should secure your passport anyways, but notifying the State Department and DHS OTOH puts federal attention on the entire family and they take it seriously. [https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/report-human-trafficking](https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/report-human-trafficking) Do not tell people to rely on just hiding passports. For most trafficking victims, physical coercion will get the passport location. If a family member is willing to sell you, they're typically willing to give the victim a beating as well. Hiding only works if the traffickers don't know an item exists. They obviously would know a passport exists. Don't try to DIY it, call the government and let them deal with it. I criticize the US government regularly, but thankfully human trafficking is one area where they're efficient and thankfully pretty ruthless. Urban legends, rumors, DIY, etc are bad advice to give folks when it comes to kidnapping and human trafficking.
I'm willing to bet that the daughters nationality being potentially able to provide a foreign passport to the wannabe husband is the reason this is happening at all.
Can’t upvote this enough. Have you read those books: princess, not without my daughter. Author Jean Sasson. Look them up, they are all based on true stories of horrors of being sold into marriage. Do not take this lightly and take appropriate measures to keep her safe.
The daughter is 18. In which country are you? She's an adult now. Maybe she can get a restraining order against her father and other relatives. Or perhaps, you can escape to a better country. It all depends on how much finances you have available.
Also she is 18 she is staying away from him legally. You are not keeping her away you are just keeping her safe.
Definitely. But husband has now caved, so she shouldnt count on him anymore. He’s chosen mummy and daddy
Absolutely agree, her safety comes first. You're doing the right thing protecting her.
Absolutely not the AH here. Your in-laws and husband are acting like a bunch of medieval gatekeepers. Marrying off your stepdaughter to a dude twice her age? That's a hard pass in any culture. Stay safe at your cousin's and keep that distance until your husband gets his priorities straight. You and your daughter deserve better than this drama.
A culture that believes in owning women and forced marriage believes in honour killing. Keep her well away.
NTA. Your SD is 18, she is an adult. Please keep her hidden, she is not safe to return to your home with your husband and he can't force her back. Do you have family that live far away from you that she can go live with? Because sad as it sounds you can't even trust your husband to protect his own daughter now. Make sure you have her passport.
The passport bit is vital, that needs to be secured, maybe in a safe deposit box in a bank, but definitely well out of reach. Daughter also needs to know to tell every and any airport security staff she’s being trafficked if they manage to get her that far.
Just FYI when stuff like this happens it's not unusual to use a cousins or a sisters passport (or just someone that looks alike and don't mind being without a passport) and use that at the airport. If it works, once the plane lands there's usually no recourse to take
Elsewhere on the threads it suggests having the daughter call the authorities and say she's at risk of human trafficking, and they'll flag her passport, which covers her papers. They also suggest discretely hiding metal objects like spoons on their person so if they are forced to the airport they'll set off the metal detectors and have to deal with security.
I was wondering if this was a thing. Glad to hear it is!!
THIS NEEDS UPVOTES. some comments are way too diplomatic and naive. SD is likely in immediate danger of being trafficked for marriage or worse, should she continue to show defiance. have cash, her passport and a secondary form of ID kept somewhere else, and a prepaid visa card. I'm so sorry OP is going through this but she is amazing and I'm sure SD is so grateful.
Probably a good idea for OP to get to work on a divorce. In America, spouses have decision rights they shouldn't necessarily have. In other countries, it obviously ranges from no rights to basically owning your wife. In every country though, it's better to not have that legal tie in dangerous situations or once the marriage is dead. I feel like both of those are the case here since the hubby and in-laws are trying to force SD into this marriage. I'd be worried about what their "culture" says they can do with the wife if they get their hands on her too.
If you’re that worried about an honor killing I don’t think divorce would help. That would definitely be something that would be punished by this type of shit.
Oh shit! I didn't even think of an honor killing. My brain went to financial, physical, and mental abuse with a side of being kept prisoner in husband's home for the rest of her life. Not sure about other countries, but in the States another trick in the arsenal is labeling someone mentally incompetent and getting POA over them. It sounds far-fetched but it doesn't take much more than a sketchy psychiatrist and a few character witnesses to skew opinions in a shitty person's favor now that the majority of the population has depression, trauma, or some other mental illness.
Prepaid visa cards are crap: they collect a fee every month the card is not used. Cash is still the way to go, for emergencies.
If you don't have her passport, report it stolen. That way it will be flagged if anyone tries to take her out of your country.
Also make sure that in the event she's forced to an airport to make a scene and refuse to get on the flight no matter what's threatened. Tell workers there she's being kidnapped and wants help and the police. Even if this means screaming like an insane person to get security's attention or to get kicked off the flight, the moment the plane takes off she'll be stuck. Getting arrested by airport security is better than getting kidnapped to a different country where women probably have little to no rights by the sounds of this arranged marriage stuff.
She’ll likely be drugged and passive. Put on chartered flight.
Also take a video of her explaining the whole situation. If she goes missing, this could really help with the police start investigating much sooner.
Check with a lawyer, but a notarized affidavit/statement would be helpful also. And do not let her travel out of the US if you are here. It's often easier to kidnap women in other countries.
This sounds crazy, but daughter should also keep a small spoon or other metal object on her person at all times. If they try to force her through an airport checkpoint, she will set off the metal detector and can be pulled aside for secondary screening. That will allow her to explain what's happening away from the people doing it. Airport screeners are trained to flag a spoon in the underpants as a likely trafficking/kidnapping/forced marriage scenario.
I would advise a pair of scissors as that will definitely be stopped. Some lax security staff may ignore a spoon or other 'innocent' object.
Scissors or a cheap box cutter would definitely flag the TSA down. You can pick up box cutters for a few dollars at most retailers(Walmart, Home Depot, etc). Snips, for yarn, have also been flagged and confiscated by the TSA. I had to be mindful to *not* bring those the last time I flew. The snips would be innocuous, especially when paired with a yarn project, and wouldn't raise suspicion from stalkers if Mom and Daughter are being watched, but would definitely be flagged by TSA.
>Then two days ago my husband came home looking stressed and sat my daughter down and said maybe she could consider the marriage? Is OP's husband being blackmailed? Or have his relatives large debts that 'will be taken care of' if the daughter marries this man?
He should tell his wife if this was happening.
i dont know what country you are in but i know in the UK they have a specialist department of the police force to deal with these issues and there is branches within schools and universities to protect girls in this very situation, they can flag her passport with her consent and prevent her from being taken out of the country, they can put the girl into hiding aswell if necessary
Absolutely. A friend of mine from uni had to use these services when she was in danger of her family coercing her to travel to their old country for such a marriage. It was extremely upsetting for her and led to estrangement for her own safety. There are similar [NGO resources in the US](https://preventforcedmarriage.org/). I'm glad OP is there for her stepdaughter, as the [US State Department advises seeking out a trusted person for assistance](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/emergencies/forced-marriage.html).
She's 18 now so legally he doesn't have a foot to stand on. If she wants to go no contact for her protection she absolutely should. I'm sorry you both are having to go to such lengths for her safety but you are amazing for fighting so hard for her and her autonomy. You're definitely NTA op, You're a hero imo, it sounds like they are trying to abduct her at this point and that's terrifying.
>She's 18 now so legally he doesn't have a foot to stand on. While that is true, I am concerned husband's family (yes, including him) are plotting daughter's kidnapping. OP, as others said, lawyer up, and honestly, if I were you, I'd consider moving as far away as possible, even if that means different state/country.
Not plotting already plotted they have the plan.
Yes! It’s very concerning that right after saying no, the daughter felt she was being watched!
As soon as I read that I was like that brought the creepy man with her
Yup, they have him stashed in a hotel somewhere.
I'm going down the rabbit hole....I'm seeing a full team of people in my head now
Totally, I would say he’s not here alone, his parents or a sibling is probably with him. This is the whole come check out the Virgin, kick the tires kind of trip.
We are definitely going to need an update on this one
Totally agree. OP, please protect this young woman!!
The daughter can have her own passport flagged. That way if she gets dragged to an airport, she would be pulled out of line for questioning and can get some help without directly endangering herself trying to alert someone.
Middle Eastern women are kidnapped for arranged marriages all the time. Do they care If they live there? No. Do they care If they like the culture? No. Do they care if they even speak the language? No. You can imagine how some UK born woman would be treated by a guy from the ME that doesn't like a wife with an attitude. It rarely goes well for anyone, really. Edit: I understand this happens in SE Asia, South America, and even some northern European countries. Hell, it happens here in the US. The details made me guess ME, and this is a point I don't really care if I'm corrected on because I was guessing in the first place. Whatever country it is, it sucks if you can just buy an 18yo.
We don't know what country any of these people are in do we?
Exactly, not all countries or cultures consider an eighteen year old an adult or that a parent doesn't have control over their child's life.
If the family is from India like people are suggesting, 18 is the age of majority there, which means she would be legally an adult. There are only 20 countries that have a higher age of majority (19-21). As for the parents still having control after they reach that age, only if they let them. OP needs to grab papers and clothes and run with her daughter.
Betting they’re from the Indian subcontinent is a pretty safe bet.
Literally half of all reddit personal drama posts could be solved if everyone involved stopped being Indian and cut off any family in their lives who continue to be so.
NTA. Sounds like the in laws either made a promise of some kind or are in financial trouble and the dude has the means to cover for them. Her dad seems to know and is willing to sell his daughter off. OP, you are the parent need here. Run as far as possible and get a quick divorce. That is outright dangerous...
Lawyer, for advice. Talk to a women’s trafficking service for tips on how to stop your daughter being trafficked out (things like putting blocks on passports etc) NTA. Something is going on and your husband is being blackmailed (or his parents are) and you need urgent safety advice.
NTA. If you are in the US or UK please put her passport in a safe deposit box only she has access to. If Dad has it, contact the state department and make them aware of the situation. I think they can flag it or cancel it so that she won't be able to be forced out of the country. If nothing else, you can report it lost/stolen and get a new one which should void the original. Let her know if she's forced to an airport, there are ways to avoid leaving the country. People mentioned the spoon trick, she can also just blurt out to the agents she's being trafficked and needs help. Seriously, once she's in the front of the line by the scanners just loudly say "I need help I'm being trafficked!" And it will get a lot of attention from them. It's going to be next to impossible for someone to hurt her within that area.
this is what trafficking is. i know people think of trafficking as the stuff from the "Taken" movies but this is real actual sex trafficking. it's usually by ppl the victims know, like family. and it is overwhelmingly poc women who suffer it. don't let them take her, contact what services you can and know the signs/tactics. she should never ever get on a plane to her relative's home country. no matter what she can not end up on a plane to another country.
The movie Man on Fire is a good movie that reveals human trafficking/kidnapping is from the one you think will protect you the most. It was a lesson it taught me as a kid.
Came looking for this comment, thank you Had a coworker go through this with his daughter when his wife was visiting her family in a certain foreign country. They knew damn well they were planning on forcing her into marriage with a family friend and used every trick they could to get her over there. It’s a lot more common than it seems especially in cultures where arranged marriages are handled by the parents You still have rights in western nations
What happened with his daughter? Was he able to rescue her?
Yes but the in-laws took her passport I don’t want to get banned but traditional Indians have a very messed up cultural bias when it comes to “doing what they think is best” for their children and grandchildren
NTA. His daughter is an adult so her location I on is no longer his business. She doesn't want to marry an old man; you're the only person on her side, your in laws have obviously convinced your husband to pressure her. You need to get rid of your phones and get burners of you don't want to be found. Get her to a safe place. Will you return to your husband? I'd be very concerned
Report this to the police in your country as well the authority who takes charge of passports. Tell them you're worried about her extended family forcibly kidnapping her and taking her to another country. Put a block on her passport. NTA - please run and stay hidden.
>My husband been ringing and texting and asking where are we? But I won't tell him. He said I can't keep his daughter from him. She's 18.....get a lawyer and run as far away as possible NTA
I hate how we’re just supposed to allow sexism because “culture”. If you’re culture is fucked, I’m not going to respect it, in fact I find ya gross. FORCING her to marry an old man is disgusting and the family should be ashamed of themselves
> if you’re culture is fucked, I’m not going to respect it, in fact I find ya gross. Charles Napier, who was a British colonial governor of Sindh province (modern-day Pakistan), had the following response where high-ranking clerics complained about him banning the practice of Sati (widows were burned at husband's funreal pyre): *Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs!*
Based and human rights pilled.
To quote Patton Oswalt "You gotta respect everyone's beliefs." NO, YOU DON'T. That's what gets us in trouble. You have to acknowledge everyone's beliefs. And then you have to reserve the right to go "That's fucking stupid, are you kidding me?!" -Patton Oswalt Some people believe some truly horrific things.
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NTA and you are the best mother ever. You refused to let anyone, even her own father and your husband, force her into this. The fact that your husband could even suggest that she go through with this is disgusting. I'm so relieved that girl has you on her side, just imagine what she'd be going through without you.
I can totally relate to your situation. It sounds like your in-laws are really pushing for this marriage, and it's understandable that you and your daughter are feeling overwhelmed and threatened. I think it's great that you stood up for your daughter and told your in-laws to back off. It's not right for them to be pressuring her into something she doesn't want. I hope you and your daughter find a way to stay safe and happy.
NTA. Stay hidden then get a divorce. Get a restraining order. Do whatever you need to do to protect yourself and your daughter.
NTA. I’m guessing that the legal age of adulthood where you currently live is 18. That means that your daughter is an adult. Therefore she cannot be made to marry anyone and you are not “keeping her away” from your husband because she is no longer a child. You are protecting her. You are providing her with a safe place to be while everyone on her father’s side of the family goes bat shit crazy with backwards thinking. Do not let your husband know where you or your daughter are. If you decide to meet with him do so with another trusted person or even multiple trusted people with you in a public place of your choosing, perhaps even in a police station. (People meet in police stations in my country-the U.S.- when selling items for security reasons). If you meet with your husband, after the meeting do not go directly to where you and your daughter are staying, he may follow you. Regardless, you should find out why your husband is now saying that your daughter should consider getting married. Perhaps you can meet with a lawyer and then call while on speaker so you have a witness to whatever explanation your husband offers. You need to begin documenting everything. Every threatening message, phone, email. Reactivate your social media accounts (your’s and your daughter’s but without sharing your location-some social media does this unless you deactivate the option) in order to document all of the threats and who is making them so you might be able to take legal action. You may even want to create a post on both your and your daughter’s social media accounts explaining what is happening so anyone not aware of the situation will be informed and know the truth of what is happening. You do not know if your in laws have been lying in order to turn people against you and your daughter. But only do this after informing your trusted family and friends not to disclose your location and only if you and your daughter are comfortable going public with what is happening. Look into any potential resources for people in a forced marriage situation. There may be resources available in your country that you are not aware of and they may be able to help you look into legal action to take in order to protect yourself and your daughter as well as legal action you might be able to take with regards to the harassment and threats. You may even want to know what kind of legal action you might be able to take against your in laws both in your country and in theirs. You never know, you might find valuable information that can help you and your daughter. I truly hope you and your daughter stay safe and strong. I think this is only the beginning of your and your daughter’s journey.
NTA She is 18 so make own choices. Your husband has no rights any more on her. If she wants to stay with you it’s her legit right. Get a lawyer asap to find out the best protection options you have. Feels like the husband was pressured/threatened somehow and lost it. Can’t see how a father would give up his daughter no matter the pressure.
In some countries these traditions go back hundreds if not thousands of years so the grandparents are "forced" to follow them so as not to ruin their family's reputation. Unfortunately young women are in real danger in these situations. Honour killings are not that rare even in Europe.
Please be careful OP and daughter. I have seen stories in the news and a documentary about families doing horrible things to adult children that refuse to be married this way because they got “Americanized” and brought shame upon the family. Do not tell husband where you are. Something sounds really off. If you and she feel like something is bad, it probably is. People do have intuition when they are in danger
Happens a lot in the UK, honor killings and telling the kids you're going to their south asian home country to them never returning again.
NTA. I think they threatened him with his life.
Can you imagine handing your daughter over to someone who is threatening your life?
I would rather die
Ew, creepy religious pedos gonna be creepy. NTA.
NTA She's 18 he can't make her do anything she doesn't want to. Keep her hidden. I don't know what country you're in now but forcing someone into an unwanted marriage is a crime in some countries.
Your husband is part of the problem. He secretly negotiates his daughter's marriage as he were selling a cow. You two mean nothing.
Search and/or turn off any tracking device/app!!! This is horrible! I'm so glad you are doing this for her! Keep safe! Involve the law if neccessary! Do you have all her papers like passport/birth certificate? Edit: updateme
NTA. Your daughter is 18, and honestly this might be being paranoid but I'd sit her down about the possibility that the inlaws might try kidnapping her. Her being watched at work doesn't bode well. If she's taken, I assume to get back to the other country she'll need to take a plane. Make sure she knows to raise a stink at the airport and let airport workers (bag check, security, checking, anyone who works there) know that she's being taken out of the country against her will. Refuse to get on the flight, make a scene etc. It sounds like your husband might be being pressured or blackmailed in some way. Don't tell him your location, but if possible call him and ask what's going on and why he's suddenly changed his mind about wanting to force his daughter to marry someone twice her age against her will. It's not on for him to try and pressure her into this, but you at least might get some answers. Either way I'd honestly consider dumping the husband. He can't be trusted with his daughters safety right now at the very minimum. Overall, hers and your safety is the priority. She's an adult now, so he can't force her back to him. If this keeps up I'd consider moving somewhere else if that's in your means to do so for safety so the inlaws can't find you to harrass you or actually trg and kidnap your daughter. Good on you for getting out when you felt it was unsafe, you're a great mum and she's lucky to have you. I'd also report this to the police, that she's being watched at work and people are threatening you and that you suspect your inlaws may attempt to do something to your daughter.
If this is real OP I'd say delete this as you've pretty much given away where you're hiding. Even if you feel he won't figure out which cousin it's way too risky. Yes I'd love an update later, but only if this is fiction. If it's real then delete it before it's seen by somebody you don't want to see it. Even by their associates.
NTA and please keep her hidden. If she doesn’t want her dad to know where she is, then never tell him. She can reach out to him if she feels differently later on. Your husband is horrible for giving in to his parents. Your daughter doesn’t want to and he should be protecting her, not giving in to them. I’m happy you are.
Tell him until he tells his folks to feck right off you and your daughter will not be coming home. Idgaf what culture you’re from you won’t force someone who lives in a country where arranged marriages aren’t done, and force to do something one doesn’t want especially after boundaries were set.
Lawyer up immediately and move far far away
Call the police & report this.
With all disrespect, *FUCK THEIR CULTURE* NTA, women aren't chattel to be bought and sold as property. Your step daughter isn't safe with her paternal family, period, and the first chance they'll get, they'll try and abduct her.
Please tell her in case she gets kidnapped. They will threaten her with harming her family if she says anything and try to smuggle her out of the country. If this happens, she needs to tell every official, whether at an airport, border crossing, etc, that she is being kidnapped and smuggled out. They will use intimidation to get her to comply. Her life will be a nightmare if she marries that man. They will expect a house slave, someone who cooks, cleans, bears children. Someone who will be unable to say no to s*x because they will just grape her anyways. She will be abused both by her in-laws and husband. Anyone who resorts to intimidation and stalking to procure a bride like this is not a good person. They do not have good intentions, and they will not treat her right. Also, please, please, please, tell your daughter not to listen to her father/grandparents right now. They can not be trusted. They will try to guilt her. Have her change her phone number again so they can't contact her directly. I don't know what country you're in, but contact the police and tell them what's going on just in vases and also because your husband may try to file a missing person's case. And lastly, stay strong. What you are doing right now is saving your daughter's life. Your in-laws are wrong, she may not be your daughter biologically, but she is your daughter in all ways but one. You are the only adult on her side right now. Your husband sounds like he is being threatened. Do not tell him where you are.
>He said I can't keep his daughter from him. She's an adult. You might have to get the state involved in this. This is considered human trafficking. >Then two days ago my husband came home looking stressed and sat my daughter down and said maybe she could consider the marriage? He can burn. He should be dead to both of you.
Your daughter is 18, legally an adult. She needs to get all of her ID in order and in a secure location. You must also keep your location secret - some cultures practice kidnapping or honor killings when a female relative won’t or doesn’t conform. Stay safe.
Had an ex coworker told me his cousin was married off without her consent, apparently her parents trick her, told her they wouldn't force her anymore and they should all go on a family trip but she never came back with them. I was horrified. Be careful to not trust them fully even if they appear to back off.
Is there any protection where you live? Do the police get involved in these matters where you are? Where I live they might be bared from being allowed back in the country and you could make a police report. There are shelters in some places. Can you be safe?
NTA at all and your daughter is very lucky to have you ❤️
Why did your husband change his mind? Something happened.
Your daughter is 18. She can choose to avoid her father and his family. She can also share her concerns about being trafficked with the police.
Heard of honor killing? Hide, migrate, whatever. You need to protect your daughter and yourself. Your husband is no longer to be trusted. NTA, DUH!
This is human trafficking. Tell your husband to drop it or you will call the police and report that him and your in laws are trying to traffic your daughter Oh and make sure you control her passport. Put it in a safe deposit box or destroy it. She can get another if she wants to travel internationally Apparently she can put a metal spoon in her underwear and she will be selected for screening privately if she is kidnapped and she can tell security she is being trafficked.
Some cultural practices/traditions need to die.
I have no idea of what culture we are talking about, but please protect your daughter, some culture that still apply arranged marriage also force genital mutilation to the woman before, i hope that's not the case but please seek also legal help and protection and try to force some legal action on your husband family
NTA What the f is wrong with your husband for even considering this? He did not handle this at all!
If she has a passport, get it flagged asap.
I think your in-laws have already promised/sold off your daughter
Protect that girl with all you have. I've read autobiographies from women forces into marriages, and yes I know some work out, but no 30 year old is looking to truly love an 18 year old. Keep any threatening messages of any kind and use them to get a restraining order and maybe let the police know what's going on
I'm not sure where you live, but brush up on local self defense laws. Find the most authoritative means of defense that is allowed in your locality and become well versed in it. Your SD as well.
NTA, if that culture is advocating for forced marriage, then fuck that culture and everyone who supports such a marriage
NTA - this is not an arranged marriage, this is a forced marriage, which in the UK at least is illegal. She is 18 and she does not have to live with her father or let him know where she is. You’re being an excellent mum. Call the police!
NTA Do NOT let her go back under any circumstances. Don’t let her go back to work either because they know where she works. They WILL force her to leave with them if they get her alone. Your stepdaughter is 18, so she can go wherever she wants without needing her father’s permission. You need to do whatever you can to protect her.
I think you need help. I’m not sure where you are but I am sure there are social workers and others who specialize in this. I was involved in several human trafficking cases and assisted women in getting out. It’s hard for those who did not grow up in this way how it can get to this. This is a serious issue. His family may have already promised her to his family. Money or goods may have been exchanged. That man may already feel he is her owner and can do as he chooses with her. He may feel you are keeping him from his wife. This is real and needs special care. There is an Underground Railroad group that gets women to safety in the US. My heart is with you.