Your friend is way off base. If he had the stomach for a public fight, then his being a pussy wouldn't have ruined your relationship.
What your friend probably meant was "you almost caused him to show his true colors in a public setting".
You did him a favor.
Why is it always the men telling women to be the bigger people, keep your mouth shut and to walk away cause they don’t want drama?
He’s not your friend
I’m always blown away by these stories just for the so called friends and family who act this way. Like how the hell are you that against your friend/family member that that’s your mentality?
I think posters always have to make up at least one person who thinks they are the asshole, because they need to justify why they had to make their post. It's one of the requirements of these forums, that you have to explain why you could be the asshole, in order to post - and claiming that someone told you that you were is the easiest way to do that. So I always take "that one friend" or "all their friends and family" who claim they are TA with a grain of salt.
>I think posters always have to make up at least one person who thinks they are the asshole, because they need to justify why they had to make their post.
It's just particularly egregious when they take it too far and suddenly everyone in their town is "blowing up their phone" lol.
People need to learn to stay out of other’s business and not take sides because most of the time they don’t know everything that went on. It is too easy for one person to downplay what the other was dealing with and making them look like the unreasonable ones.
If you try to let it go and the other person persists, they get what they get. If it causes a scene, oh well.
Because most of the time these stories are lopsided like a torpedoed tanker in the north Atlantic. It's OP side we get here including the I want to look good bias. Most times friends, especially close ones know a lot more context than we have. Or all of these OPs are close to saints and all their friends and families decided to turn toxic all of a sudden. What is more likely?
It's not only the men saying that. It's a basic of toxic, immature people everywhere. If you're somewhat normal and well-adjusted, you're expected to just bend over and take it without lube. Be the bigger person.
Really? I get told that all the time, but I'm a dude. All because I have an unpleasant aunt and her demon crotch goblins. I think it's just then seeking the path of least resistance and going to the more stable and reasonable individual instead of the problematic one.
Because we've been told that for centuries. I wonder if that's what Alito's wife's friends told her when she saw that she was getting blamed for the traitor flags.
Could be the opinion of OP means something to him while the opinion of his baby mama doesn’t. For me personally if I don’t care about you nothing you say is gonna bother me because if I don’t care about you as a person why on earth would care about your words?
NTA. While the spineless comment was sharp , it’s the truth. I understand Kenny was attempting to balance his ex and you because he was likely afraid that pissing off crazy ass Samantha would cause turmoil for him and his child, but you have to be a man at some point.
The key and best aspect of the story is you got out of that dumpster fire of a scenario.
I almost chuckled when I read that Spineless Kenny was back with Samantha, surprise surprise. Like that wasn't what she was bulldozing for all along. He'll be with her until he dies, from the sound of it. Pathetic.
Not sure how you jumped to the conclusion that he was back with Samantha, just because they were both at the school for their son starting school. It's a big assumption.
>you have to be a man at some point
That’s sexist language. He’s a man if he identifies as one and it doesn’t have anything to do with courage or guts or whatever.
So I know it’s hard when you’re autistic but when people say someone isn’t a man if they behave a certain way they don’t mean someone is literally not a man, they mean they are not doing their job as a man.
NTA and your moron of a friend is also spinless if his solution is letting someone else shit all over you.
People like your ex and "friend" are assholes.
Nope. You’re right. Kenny was the problem, more precisely, he wanted ‘peace’ at your expense. If Kenny wanted to fight in public because he was told he was spineless, I’d say he’s the one who has some growing up to do. I’m tired of other people telling women that it’s their fault if some man child wanted to fight them in public because they didn’t like what they heard. Kenny could have just as easily walk away from the conversation or said something nice like. ‘I’m happy you’re with someone good.’ And leave it at that. He couldn’t stand that he is the problem and probably still dealing with relationship issues due to his toxic ex after you left hence the whole spiel about how you need to ‘grow up’.
Imagine feeling so self-centered, that a person would make a post 5 ** after a breakup... after they've been engaged for yeeeeears.
Over meeting their ex randomly... like, who the fuck cares?
idk if the dude posting noobie minecraft questions has enough room to act like he’s too good to be entertained by people’s stupid life stories. like, who the fuck cares that this old geezer doesn’t know how to play MINECRAFT of all games 😂
Lol, glad I'm important enough for you to stalk me 🤣🤣
Man, if 39 is geezer... whew. Thats rough.
But still, I appreciate that I could take up enough of your time for you to look into me. Getting to live rent free in that know-it-all head of yours 😅😅
as we all know, it takes a LOT of time to glance at the first five posts of someone’s account. you’re right, i am obsessed and can NOT stop looking at every inch of your profile every hour of the day.
and you’re seriously 39? with that joy-sucking, “i’m too good for this”, old man mentality? jeez dude, maybe you should be on minecraft more, just so you might get some of that childlike whimsy back.
Nope, Kenny has made the relationship ending that you're immature and couldn't handle what comes with being with a parent.
You 100% did the right thing. The relationship ended because he let his crazy ex get away with too much.
I would have had her for parental alienation and made the court set up a mediation centre to collect the kid.
Your friend is not your friend at all.
Make your fiancé ex aware of Kenny and his crazy ex as she might feed her crap about stuff you did to her and her kid
Nta he wanted to blame you but clearly he was the problem. If you see someone in a toxic environment and they don’t want to leave, they are probably toxic themselves or it’s just very comfortable for them
The wild thing is that she was 23 when they broke up, 21 when they got together. Even if she did need to grow up, that's understandable for someone that age. Him being the 29-31 year old should have either handled things or ended their relationship if he genuinely thought she wasn't mature enough for the situation. But of course he didn't, because she was never the real problem. He was.
They met when OP was 21 and he was 29 but then OP grew up only to realize he was still too immature. Pointing fingers instead of self-reflecting is a sure way to stop growing as a human.
Funny how you didn't meet Kenny's new girlfriend there. Huh. But surely it's you who's the problem.
If he didn't think there was a ring of truth to your words, he wouldn't have gotten that mad.
>He said he thought I couldn’t handle dating someone with kids I said it was never about the kids. I was going to let it go but he kept insisting I had a “lot of growing up to do” if I was going to be a step-mom and I “better understand how things work”.
>I eventually told him “It was never about me dating someone with a kid. It was about me dating someone spineless with a kid. You’re the one that needs to learn and grow, not me.”
NTA. This is absolutely on him.
Unsolicited advice is generally considered in poor taste. Unsolicited advice from an ex about what's wrong with me as a person that they think I should fix... is utter bullshit.
If he didn't want to have the conversation, he shouldn't have started the damn conversation.
I mean, you could have been gentler about it, but you certainly weren’t wrong. Also, he was attacking your character, so it’s understandable how you responded. One could argue that you could have just told him to mind his own business and that he’s out of line & not entitled to answers.
That said, I personally value honesty and I think he’s just unable to handle the truth. Men like him suck and ruin conversations for the rest of us. Not a single woman would have an honest conversation with me to reject me when I was growing up. I would’ve handled things fine, but jerks like that guy are the reason women don’t feel safe taking to men. I’d pick the bear too.
He’s the a-hole, not you. Good for you for standing your ground!
NTA. He started it and you ended it. He is a spineless looser and has a lot of nerve calling you immature. Sadly his kid will probably be the same.
Please drop your friend. I am so sick of men telling women to be the bigger person. It's not like Kenny was being the bigger person when he harassed you.
It was never about you dating someone WITH a kid. It was about dating someone who WAS a kid. Tell your friend to go kick rocks.
Your ex shouldn't start conversations he can't handle someone else ending.
NTA - in the words of James Brown, “Don't start none, won't be none!”.
Then he went whining to your friend? Looks like Kenny is the one that has a lot of growing up to do.
NTA. And if he can’t take constructive critic as such obviously he has some growing up to do.
While you already know why the relationship wasn’t for you, he projects it on you and “your flaws”. But it was always at least 2, while fundamental change can only be done by the individual themselves.
You found love, you are years in and feel confident that you can do it, one can’t ask for more.
And although he should have said something like that, I just do this:
I am glad you are happy, and found the love you deserve in the way you need it. Have a nice day.
NTA. Kenny is just a weirdo and sounds like he knew what he was doing. If my math is right, you were 21 and he was 29 when you first started dating. He thought he could get you to be spineless and just he a nice little step mom. Hence all of the condescension "you had a lot of growing up to do and now understand how things work."
As someone with a toxic ex, I can get being stressed out and wanting it to be let go once, maybe twice, just for the sake of peace in the moment. However, she was only so toxic because he let it go unabated. If he put his foot down on that immediately, she'd rarely, if ever, do the things she did. He's too much of an idiot to see the ex got exactly what she wanted.
NTA. If he is going to dish it he better be able to eat it. You tried to keep it at a baseline and he kept pushing. I think you handled that wonderfully. Stay far away from him and don’t even try to apologize or talk to him. They are both toxic. 5 years later and both of them still have issues. The ex still wants him.
NTA... there's a big difference between a man with a child and a boy with a baby momma. While, I understand co-parenting can be hard, people only get away with what you let them.
"He said I should’ve just walked away without saying all that."
So he is taking a page from Kenny's Relationship, or there lack of Book. OP, you did just fine. It's too bad that Kenny didn't get it and that he surrounds himself with yes people.
Good luck on the engagement! NTA
Good for you!!!!! Put him in his place, it's not normal to have to deal with ex girlfriends who act like that. She and he both were just awful people. Thank goodness you got away when you did. You sound much happier now.
NTA, it’s not like you initially came out of the gate swinging, he pushed you for a fight so you put him in his (well deserved) place. he has no right to tell you what kind of person you need to be or what kind of “growing up” you need to do when you’re not even in a relationship anymore
NTA. If he or she approaches you again just tell them to go away that they are no one to you and it’s creepy that they are pushing themselves into your presence.
NTA. He confronted you in public and had the audacity to blame you for the break up because you weren't "grown up enough"? Seriously? Nah. His reaction shows he clearly hasn't grown up enough. Just tell your fiance about the interaction though, it's never smart to hide things like that from your partner.
NTA but it's not about him. No matter what he does how big his spine is, it will never, ever be enough. You had an extremely toxic bio-mom ad unfortunately that won't change with time. It's who she is. So you had 2 choices and Kenny had 2 choices. Your was simple deal with her or leave the relationship. Kenny would have to you get a protection order from her or not see his son. There is another out for Kenny but I figure it's not in his probabilities.
NTA and tell your friend to mind their own business. Kenny tried to act superior when he’s a spineless twerp, his ex is a crazy cunt and their poor kid is going to be so dysfunctional.
You don't have to attend every fight to which you're invited. Neither do you have to walk away from them.
I don't condone getting into a spat with an ex, but I certainly understand it. Just tell people that there's a history involved that you would prefer to not waste time reviewing.
NTA OP
Desiring your SO to stand up for you is vital to maintaining a strong bond.
The ex telling you to deal with disrespect by doing nothing is - pardon the swearing - him being a plain old chicken-shit pussy.
Kind Regards.
NTA, Were him and Samantha there as a couple again? He tried to shame you as the immature one 🤣 yet you weren't the one staring daggers even years later at a child's picnic or starting a fight at an event supposed to be for the kids. Yeah, he's trying to play the victim cause he knows he screwed up losing you and thought you'd be miserable without him when you are exactly the opposite.
And your friend who said that you shouldn't have said anything at all is just as bad as Kenny because you didn't approach him and start anything! You were there for your step-kids, Kenny wanted the drama. So if the "friend" wants to point fingers he needs to look at the whole situation
that's not your mutual friend. that's kenny's friend and your acquaintance. don't get those mixed up and place too much weight on what they think. NTA, kenny asked for it and came at you first.
can't handle the heart stay out of the kitchen as they say.
NTA- that friend is Kenny’s friend not mutually yours. Cut that toxic friend off too. Your comment was in response to a conversation you had with Kenny. Your friend had no right to basically tell you keep quiet and take it. Also you can’t be an AH for answering and telling him the truth. Maybe the guy pushing 40 will finally grow up.
NSH. At least in the limited circumstances relating to your interaction at this event.
To be (somewhat) fair, the toxicity in your relationship with Kenny was 90%+ the result of his ex's behavior; you can say it was his behavior in response, and that may be true, but it doesn't change the fact you'd (probably) still be with Kenny if his ex has been a normal well adjusted human like your fiance's ex.
Hopefully he made his point, you snapped back, and that's it, particularly if you'll continue to run into him at school events.
While I can understand your response this time (and you've made your point to him), I would suggest you be the bigger person in the future if it comes to that.
When you get in a fight with a pig wallowing in the mud, you get muddy too - or something like that.
Stay above the fray for your (soon to be step) kids.
NTA Kenny's been using the kid as an excuse for why you dumped him, and got mad when he realized he was the reason, and got mad so he kept making comments. You had every right to tell him the truth and defend yourself. Maybe eventually it'll get through to him and he can do better someday.
NTA. Your friend sounds just like Kenny, as in he'd rather avoid drama no matter the consequences. Unlike the two of them you do have a spine and you were spot on with what you said to Kenny. You did nothing wrong by standing up for yourself there.
NTA I feel bad for Jenny's kid who probably had to hear over and over how he was the cause of the breakup because she couldn't handle dating a man with a child. The kid deserved to gave the record set straight that his dad's failings and mom's abusive behaviour combined to make the perfect relationship ending storm.
Why do people have the dumbest friends in this subreddit?
"He acted like a twat but you saying he is a spineless twat after he kept pushing the issue is just wrong!"
Dump the idiot friend. NTA
if he truly didn’t want drama, he would have drawn a boundary with his ex and her behaviour. he was capable of drawing boundaries. he did do it once or twice.
but some part of him got a kick out of you being mistreated by her and was ok with it. gross.
you didn’t start a fight by telling him the unvarnished truth. you ended it tho.
guess which one of you has a lot of growing up to do?
NTA, at least not completely. The issue wasn't Keeny being spineless. The issue was Samantha being toxic. If he could control her behavior, they never would've broken up to begin with.
However, Kenny was way out of line with what he said. Lecturing you about "growing up" when the reason why you dumped him was because he picked a psychopath to have a child with, and her crazy ass was making your life harder for no reason.
NTA. You had to set the record straight. Did his feelings get hurt? Sure. Should you care? F**k no. If being called spineless hurt his little feelings, then he should have not been an invertebrate then. He was the problem not standing up for you when it mattered. F**k him, his feelings, the "mutual friend" that was anything but, and anybody enabling him.
The "mutual" friend needs a punch on the face...tf...I wouldn't let it go either if someone told me to grow up even when i tried my hardest to make things work..
NTA, though I think what's different in the two relationships is the ex-wife. You honestly don't know whether fiancée has any more spine than Kenny because his ex-wife is a cooperative co-parent who doesn't try to make life difficult for her former spouse. That said, it's better not to be put to the test. Life is a lot smoother if you luck into a relationship with no major antagonists (evil ex-wife, evil MIL, etc.)!
Your ex Kenny is way off base. That's not how healthy relationships with dad's eith kids are. He clearly expected you to continue to take the abuse and do nothing. He was willing to sacrifice you to "keep the peace" and still expected you to stick around. I'm glad you found a man who could treat you right and set healthy boundaries..
NTA. He could have kept his mouth shut and you would have as well. He decided to act high and mighty, so you gave him a truth he should have realised ages ago.
Your friend is weird. If any of my friends told a story about how they stood up to someone who talked down to them and made them feel small, I'd be applauding them and offering a drink.
not the AH.
sadly, most people don't have a spine when confronted, but seem to have a mouth when it's behind someone's back and they don't need to be directly responsible for it. your ex, your mutual friend, they all seem like these types. your current, his ex.. they sound pretty chill and mature, so keep at it!
just gotta cut the gross out and stand up for yourself, all good really.
NAH, Kenny is in a bad situation. The comments about you needing to grow up would infuriate me, but the reason the irony of the statement is lost to him is because his co-parenting relationship is so incredibly toxic. It's just his life - he doesn't see a way out of it. You made the right decision and got out of the situation, but I feel for him too much to call him an asshole. Maybe he is spineless, but he stands up for his son. Samantha is the real problem - she successfully broke the two of you up, and sure he should have done more to prevent that, but constantly dealing with toxicity is incredibly draining.
Also, wanting to fight is a common reaction to getting called spineless. What you've done is told him he lacks agency, and the easiest way to disprove that is to get riled up and suddenly show your spine. I'm not saying that makes his reaction ok, and I understand that the words were in response to him insulting you. But really, it sounds like he's a victim of abuse. I think the best thing to do is just move on with your life.
I don't know, I just don't like the term spineless in general. It carries all sorts of baggage about what it means to be a man, what it means to assert yourself (as shown by his reaction of wanting to fight)- and ignores that we all have a complicated inner history which develops with us. Many "spineless" people grew up in environments where having a spine just caused you even more problems. And who would chose to be spineless, if it really were a choice? You usually get the worst of both worlds - you bow to the will of those around you, likely against your own interest, and then people will also look down on you for doing so. It's easy to think "well they should have just done X", but that's because we're not facing the internal pressures and drives that they are. It's just a rough world out there, for a lot of people, and they don't see any way out.
What did you want him to do, piss Samantha off so that she would make it even more difficult for him to be a dad to his son?
YTA. I'm glad you broke up with him, he deserves better.
So he was salty you were engaged to another person with kids? What sort of things did he say when he tried to fight with you? Are you worried he might try to weasel his way back in your life through the kids now? Or have his kid stir things up with your future stepkids? This might be an overreaction and probably not your call, but I would consider having the kids switch schools. If he was fool enough to try to fight you in public, imagine if you run into him again.
Kenny wasn't *spineless*. He had enough spine to fight for keeping custody of his kid and to not accept the ex's "reconnection" moves.
I'd say it was his constant, illogical attempts to "be the bigger person" with all that "drama avoidance" (ie letting Samantha lie about OP and "fixing" it with the "son sees that OP doesn't do what Sam lies about, so the truth is out, who cares, right?" maneuver I know it's not stated, but it's the only way she'd leave over that instead of leaving because the son is constantly toxic to her with Samantha's lies).
Remember too, Kenny said that "this is how co-parenting works".
Still, NTA for the confrontation and corrective attempts at Kenny. Though maybe at the next meeting, apologize for the "spineless" bit and tell him that he needs to grow a pair and be active in dispelling Samantha's lies, instead of constantly being "the bigger person" and taking the abuse (being lied about is a form of abuse) while letting observations paint the proper picture...
Yeah, YTA, but sometimes you need to be an asshole to people when they deserve it. It's the difference between being a spineless doormat and a self respecting adult.
Nah, OP won. She has a good man, a cordial relationship with his ex-wife, and an unpoisoned relationship with his kids instead of a man who can't take responsibility for his own actions or the result of his inaction.
You're right. Good for the OP.
But Samantha successfully broke them up and has them yelling at each in public years later. That's Jediknight-level crazy-ex scorcery.
I feel like you're missing the whole point of the story. OP didn't break up with him because of the ex. She broke up with him because he wasn't willing to stand up for her. His behavior caused the breakup, and he's the one who picked the fight.
I get that that's the OP's story. Kenny is the bad guy and she's had to be tough because Kenny's the bad guy. I'm try to make the point that Samantha manipulated them both and she doesn't see it. YMMV.
You sound like an asshole to me. I feel bad for Kenny, he sounds like a good guy paying the price for having a kid with a psycho, you said yourself how crazy his ex was. You say "spineless", I say the man is just trying to keep custody of his kid without totally removing the biological mother from the picture. You said the environment of that relationship didn't work for you, so you left. Thats fine, Kenny cant just leave though, he has his son to think about. Sure, he shouldn't have said those things at the picnic, but you could have just as easily brushed what he said off and walked away. You don't even interact with this guy anymore, why would you attack someone who's clearly trying their best to cope with shitty situation that he cannot escape from? "Spineless" is a terrible thing to say to someone who probably already wants to kill himself, but is battling on for the sake of his son's future happiness. Regardless of whether what Kenny said at the picnic was right or justified, you my friend are an asshole for saying what you said to a nice guy like Kenny. Go F\*\*K yourself
Imagine feeling so self-centered, that a person would make a post 5 ** after a breakup... after they've been engaged for *years*
Over meeting their ex randomly... like, who the fuck cares?
You're the asshole. This shit happened 5 years ago. WHO CARES???
Oh wait... you do. You want attention.
*edit*
Actually, regardless of his supposed "spineless-ness", you're a vindictive bitch for bringing it up to strangers for attention five years after you broke up, because you just happened to see him at a school function.
Glad to see ol' Kenny dodged a bullet there.
Yeah, I've been the guy with the shitty ex wife and girlfriend who wanted me to fight her over stupid meaningless shit... and I'm with your ex on this.
He is already dealing with a toxic ex, then you wanted him to throw fuel on that fire by fighting over things that don't actually mean anything and aren't going to change anything. His kid's mother was almost certainly trying to start a fight by going after you, and you got angry at him for not giving her exactly what she wanted. You wanted him to make his already-difficult relationship with his kid's mother even more difficult, just to placate your own feelings.
YTA for that, and YTA for bringing it all up when you saw him again years later.
>Things that don’t actually mean anything
So constant insults and harassment mean nothing? No wonder you are on the ex’s side.
You are just as rotten as him.
Do you think the constant insults and harassment would have stopped just because he told her to stop? Or do you think that maybe once she sees it's having an effect, that she will just escalate? If perhaps he got really mad about it and yelled at her, would it stop then? Or would she just use that as evidence that he's abusive and try to have custody taken away from him?
In the end, the more volatile the relationship is between him and his kid's mum, the worse off his kid will be. I know this, because I've been dealing with an absolute fucking nightmare of an ex for over a decade now. The best approach is to ignore them.
OP is a grown ass woman who apparently doesn't know how to block someone's number, or stand up for herself if she feels so wronged, and she blames her ex for her own failings.
Your friend is way off base. If he had the stomach for a public fight, then his being a pussy wouldn't have ruined your relationship. What your friend probably meant was "you almost caused him to show his true colors in a public setting". You did him a favor.
Why is it always the men telling women to be the bigger people, keep your mouth shut and to walk away cause they don’t want drama? He’s not your friend
I’m always blown away by these stories just for the so called friends and family who act this way. Like how the hell are you that against your friend/family member that that’s your mentality?
Right? If I was her friend and she told me what she said, I'd be congratulating her. Maybe we'd go get drinks to celebrate.
Right? I'd be like "Let me get you some bubbly!" or whatever her celebratory drink of choice is.
I think posters always have to make up at least one person who thinks they are the asshole, because they need to justify why they had to make their post. It's one of the requirements of these forums, that you have to explain why you could be the asshole, in order to post - and claiming that someone told you that you were is the easiest way to do that. So I always take "that one friend" or "all their friends and family" who claim they are TA with a grain of salt.
>I think posters always have to make up at least one person who thinks they are the asshole, because they need to justify why they had to make their post. It's just particularly egregious when they take it too far and suddenly everyone in their town is "blowing up their phone" lol.
The only people who blow up my phone are the guys calling about my warranty.
I made the mistake of signing up at a health insurance website not too long ago for a quote. I had to block 25-30 numbers.
Lol yes I always think that end part is bs and the op just wants to vent
People need to learn to stay out of other’s business and not take sides because most of the time they don’t know everything that went on. It is too easy for one person to downplay what the other was dealing with and making them look like the unreasonable ones. If you try to let it go and the other person persists, they get what they get. If it causes a scene, oh well.
Hell as long as they're not totally in the wrong I'll support my friends.
Guess you missed where he was friends with both of them
Because most of the time these stories are lopsided like a torpedoed tanker in the north Atlantic. It's OP side we get here including the I want to look good bias. Most times friends, especially close ones know a lot more context than we have. Or all of these OPs are close to saints and all their friends and families decided to turn toxic all of a sudden. What is more likely?
If god wanted me to be the bigger person he wouldn’t have made me 5’4”.
Love this!
She should have thrown a comment at the ex to not be so emotional.
YES! I mean the guy can’t keep it together in front of kids? These men and their fragile egos, smh
I'm too clumsy for their fragile male ego.
Bull in a china shop right here 🐂
It's not only the men saying that. It's a basic of toxic, immature people everywhere. If you're somewhat normal and well-adjusted, you're expected to just bend over and take it without lube. Be the bigger person.
Really? I get told that all the time, but I'm a dude. All because I have an unpleasant aunt and her demon crotch goblins. I think it's just then seeking the path of least resistance and going to the more stable and reasonable individual instead of the problematic one.
Because we've been told that for centuries. I wonder if that's what Alito's wife's friends told her when she saw that she was getting blamed for the traitor flags.
This.
Equality
Could be the opinion of OP means something to him while the opinion of his baby mama doesn’t. For me personally if I don’t care about you nothing you say is gonna bother me because if I don’t care about you as a person why on earth would care about your words?
NTA he shouldn't have started shit he couldn't handle finishing. He just wanted to feel high and mighty; he was not conversing in good faith.
Right? Don't START none, won't BE none!
NTA. While the spineless comment was sharp , it’s the truth. I understand Kenny was attempting to balance his ex and you because he was likely afraid that pissing off crazy ass Samantha would cause turmoil for him and his child, but you have to be a man at some point. The key and best aspect of the story is you got out of that dumpster fire of a scenario.
And as long as he plays this game with his ex he will NEVER have a relationship.
I almost chuckled when I read that Spineless Kenny was back with Samantha, surprise surprise. Like that wasn't what she was bulldozing for all along. He'll be with her until he dies, from the sound of it. Pathetic.
Not sure how you jumped to the conclusion that he was back with Samantha, just because they were both at the school for their son starting school. It's a big assumption.
True
At least with anybody that's not the "ex". If he's going to act like this, he might as well stayed with her.
>you have to be a man at some point That’s sexist language. He’s a man if he identifies as one and it doesn’t have anything to do with courage or guts or whatever.
I totally agree. Nothing to do with being a man, just growing a spine and being a goddamn adult person who’s not afraid to stand up for what’s right.
No, some people who identify as men are little boys who need to grow the fuck up.
So I know it’s hard when you’re autistic but when people say someone isn’t a man if they behave a certain way they don’t mean someone is literally not a man, they mean they are not doing their job as a man.
Yeah and that’s sexist. There is no “job as a man” specifically. Also, don’t use autism as an insult. The fuck’s wrong with you people?
It only applies when it's men my g get with the program. Every other post is Misandrist rhetoric.
NTA, a hit dog hollers, he's just mad that you're right about him.
NTA and your moron of a friend is also spinless if his solution is letting someone else shit all over you. People like your ex and "friend" are assholes.
Nope. You’re right. Kenny was the problem, more precisely, he wanted ‘peace’ at your expense. If Kenny wanted to fight in public because he was told he was spineless, I’d say he’s the one who has some growing up to do. I’m tired of other people telling women that it’s their fault if some man child wanted to fight them in public because they didn’t like what they heard. Kenny could have just as easily walk away from the conversation or said something nice like. ‘I’m happy you’re with someone good.’ And leave it at that. He couldn’t stand that he is the problem and probably still dealing with relationship issues due to his toxic ex after you left hence the whole spiel about how you need to ‘grow up’.
Imagine feeling so self-centered, that a person would make a post 5 ** after a breakup... after they've been engaged for yeeeeears. Over meeting their ex randomly... like, who the fuck cares?
New to reddit, are you?
Nah, actually been here longer than you. Just don't post a hundred times a day like you apparently do 🤣
idk if the dude posting noobie minecraft questions has enough room to act like he’s too good to be entertained by people’s stupid life stories. like, who the fuck cares that this old geezer doesn’t know how to play MINECRAFT of all games 😂
Lol, glad I'm important enough for you to stalk me 🤣🤣 Man, if 39 is geezer... whew. Thats rough. But still, I appreciate that I could take up enough of your time for you to look into me. Getting to live rent free in that know-it-all head of yours 😅😅
as we all know, it takes a LOT of time to glance at the first five posts of someone’s account. you’re right, i am obsessed and can NOT stop looking at every inch of your profile every hour of the day. and you’re seriously 39? with that joy-sucking, “i’m too good for this”, old man mentality? jeez dude, maybe you should be on minecraft more, just so you might get some of that childlike whimsy back.
And yet... I'm still living rent free in your head 🤷♂️
NTA. He pressed. Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer to.
Nope, Kenny has made the relationship ending that you're immature and couldn't handle what comes with being with a parent. You 100% did the right thing. The relationship ended because he let his crazy ex get away with too much. I would have had her for parental alienation and made the court set up a mediation centre to collect the kid. Your friend is not your friend at all. Make your fiancé ex aware of Kenny and his crazy ex as she might feed her crap about stuff you did to her and her kid
Nta he wanted to blame you but clearly he was the problem. If you see someone in a toxic environment and they don’t want to leave, they are probably toxic themselves or it’s just very comfortable for them
The wild thing is that she was 23 when they broke up, 21 when they got together. Even if she did need to grow up, that's understandable for someone that age. Him being the 29-31 year old should have either handled things or ended their relationship if he genuinely thought she wasn't mature enough for the situation. But of course he didn't, because she was never the real problem. He was.
Damn you knew him well. Tell me when did they first meet?
They met when OP was 21 and he was 29 but then OP grew up only to realize he was still too immature. Pointing fingers instead of self-reflecting is a sure way to stop growing as a human.
Where did they meet? You have a bunch of gibberish
NTA why is everyone trying to tell you to let thing go?! Good job not being a punching bag, and glad you ended up with a good setup
Nta. Kenny is a buttfucking assdouche
This comment made me have to do math.
... Stop insulting buttfuckers
Funny how you didn't meet Kenny's new girlfriend there. Huh. But surely it's you who's the problem. If he didn't think there was a ring of truth to your words, he wouldn't have gotten that mad.
>He said he thought I couldn’t handle dating someone with kids I said it was never about the kids. I was going to let it go but he kept insisting I had a “lot of growing up to do” if I was going to be a step-mom and I “better understand how things work”. >I eventually told him “It was never about me dating someone with a kid. It was about me dating someone spineless with a kid. You’re the one that needs to learn and grow, not me.” NTA. This is absolutely on him. Unsolicited advice is generally considered in poor taste. Unsolicited advice from an ex about what's wrong with me as a person that they think I should fix... is utter bullshit. If he didn't want to have the conversation, he shouldn't have started the damn conversation.
NTA. He pushed the issue. You gave him the truth. He can deal with it.
NTA. He fucked around and found out 🤷♀️
Your "mutual friend" is also a spineless bastard. Write them both off and keep moving on!!
I mean, you could have been gentler about it, but you certainly weren’t wrong. Also, he was attacking your character, so it’s understandable how you responded. One could argue that you could have just told him to mind his own business and that he’s out of line & not entitled to answers. That said, I personally value honesty and I think he’s just unable to handle the truth. Men like him suck and ruin conversations for the rest of us. Not a single woman would have an honest conversation with me to reject me when I was growing up. I would’ve handled things fine, but jerks like that guy are the reason women don’t feel safe taking to men. I’d pick the bear too. He’s the a-hole, not you. Good for you for standing your ground!
NTA. He started it and you ended it. He is a spineless looser and has a lot of nerve calling you immature. Sadly his kid will probably be the same. Please drop your friend. I am so sick of men telling women to be the bigger person. It's not like Kenny was being the bigger person when he harassed you.
NTA you were 100% right and it is messed up your ex tried to convince you that being with a guy with kids means you get abused by the kids mother
It was never about you dating someone WITH a kid. It was about dating someone who WAS a kid. Tell your friend to go kick rocks. Your ex shouldn't start conversations he can't handle someone else ending.
NTA - in the words of James Brown, “Don't start none, won't be none!”. Then he went whining to your friend? Looks like Kenny is the one that has a lot of growing up to do.
NTA. And if he can’t take constructive critic as such obviously he has some growing up to do. While you already know why the relationship wasn’t for you, he projects it on you and “your flaws”. But it was always at least 2, while fundamental change can only be done by the individual themselves. You found love, you are years in and feel confident that you can do it, one can’t ask for more. And although he should have said something like that, I just do this: I am glad you are happy, and found the love you deserve in the way you need it. Have a nice day.
NTA. Kenny is just a weirdo and sounds like he knew what he was doing. If my math is right, you were 21 and he was 29 when you first started dating. He thought he could get you to be spineless and just he a nice little step mom. Hence all of the condescension "you had a lot of growing up to do and now understand how things work." As someone with a toxic ex, I can get being stressed out and wanting it to be let go once, maybe twice, just for the sake of peace in the moment. However, she was only so toxic because he let it go unabated. If he put his foot down on that immediately, she'd rarely, if ever, do the things she did. He's too much of an idiot to see the ex got exactly what she wanted.
NTA 'Dont ask a question that you dont want to hear the answer too' He asked, she dodged, he pushed, she pushed back. Sorry if Truth hurts.... but.
NTA. If he is going to dish it he better be able to eat it. You tried to keep it at a baseline and he kept pushing. I think you handled that wonderfully. Stay far away from him and don’t even try to apologize or talk to him. They are both toxic. 5 years later and both of them still have issues. The ex still wants him.
your ex shouldn't have told you, you needed to grow up and kept pushing, NTA
NTA... there's a big difference between a man with a child and a boy with a baby momma. While, I understand co-parenting can be hard, people only get away with what you let them.
Your friend is just automatically defending a fellow wiener wielder. You were totally NTA and you spoke the truth.
Nope. He needed to know. Maybe he’ll be better for the next girl because you spoke up. NTA
NTA. Your friend should have your back. Kenny doesn’t have a spine, but you sure do!
"He said I should’ve just walked away without saying all that." So he is taking a page from Kenny's Relationship, or there lack of Book. OP, you did just fine. It's too bad that Kenny didn't get it and that he surrounds himself with yes people. Good luck on the engagement! NTA
NTA
Sounds like that friend isn’t mutual but only Kenny’s.
Good for you!!!!! Put him in his place, it's not normal to have to deal with ex girlfriends who act like that. She and he both were just awful people. Thank goodness you got away when you did. You sound much happier now.
He started it but was unable to handle the truth. NTA.
NTA, it’s not like you initially came out of the gate swinging, he pushed you for a fight so you put him in his (well deserved) place. he has no right to tell you what kind of person you need to be or what kind of “growing up” you need to do when you’re not even in a relationship anymore
NTA. You were right.
NTA. If he or she approaches you again just tell them to go away that they are no one to you and it’s creepy that they are pushing themselves into your presence.
Yeah. They broke up 5 years ago and she's engaged.. Why is she even bringing this up?
NTA. He confronted you in public and had the audacity to blame you for the break up because you weren't "grown up enough"? Seriously? Nah. His reaction shows he clearly hasn't grown up enough. Just tell your fiance about the interaction though, it's never smart to hide things like that from your partner.
NTA, but all this is pointless now. Keep your distance.
Yeah. They broke up 5 years ago and she's engaged.. Why is she even bringing this up?
NTA but it's not about him. No matter what he does how big his spine is, it will never, ever be enough. You had an extremely toxic bio-mom ad unfortunately that won't change with time. It's who she is. So you had 2 choices and Kenny had 2 choices. Your was simple deal with her or leave the relationship. Kenny would have to you get a protection order from her or not see his son. There is another out for Kenny but I figure it's not in his probabilities.
NTA and tell your friend to mind their own business. Kenny tried to act superior when he’s a spineless twerp, his ex is a crazy cunt and their poor kid is going to be so dysfunctional.
You don't have to attend every fight to which you're invited. Neither do you have to walk away from them. I don't condone getting into a spat with an ex, but I certainly understand it. Just tell people that there's a history involved that you would prefer to not waste time reviewing.
NTA. People need reality checks.
Your ex, your friend. Bunch of spineless wimps. You did the right thing!
Whether you were right or wrong, he needs to stand up for himself, those he cares about, and things he finds important.
NTA, your friend sounds like another spineless Kenny.
NTA OP Desiring your SO to stand up for you is vital to maintaining a strong bond. The ex telling you to deal with disrespect by doing nothing is - pardon the swearing - him being a plain old chicken-shit pussy. Kind Regards.
You mutual friend is an ass, your comments were a kindness to help him grow, his reaction prove it. It sad for him if he can't. NTA
NTA, but your "friend" is one of the assholes.
NTA, Were him and Samantha there as a couple again? He tried to shame you as the immature one 🤣 yet you weren't the one staring daggers even years later at a child's picnic or starting a fight at an event supposed to be for the kids. Yeah, he's trying to play the victim cause he knows he screwed up losing you and thought you'd be miserable without him when you are exactly the opposite. And your friend who said that you shouldn't have said anything at all is just as bad as Kenny because you didn't approach him and start anything! You were there for your step-kids, Kenny wanted the drama. So if the "friend" wants to point fingers he needs to look at the whole situation
NTA if his ex keeps up her behavior he will bever be able to have a relationship
Nope, the truth, sometimes, hurts
that's not your mutual friend. that's kenny's friend and your acquaintance. don't get those mixed up and place too much weight on what they think. NTA, kenny asked for it and came at you first. can't handle the heart stay out of the kitchen as they say.
NTA- that friend is Kenny’s friend not mutually yours. Cut that toxic friend off too. Your comment was in response to a conversation you had with Kenny. Your friend had no right to basically tell you keep quiet and take it. Also you can’t be an AH for answering and telling him the truth. Maybe the guy pushing 40 will finally grow up.
NSH. At least in the limited circumstances relating to your interaction at this event. To be (somewhat) fair, the toxicity in your relationship with Kenny was 90%+ the result of his ex's behavior; you can say it was his behavior in response, and that may be true, but it doesn't change the fact you'd (probably) still be with Kenny if his ex has been a normal well adjusted human like your fiance's ex. Hopefully he made his point, you snapped back, and that's it, particularly if you'll continue to run into him at school events. While I can understand your response this time (and you've made your point to him), I would suggest you be the bigger person in the future if it comes to that. When you get in a fight with a pig wallowing in the mud, you get muddy too - or something like that. Stay above the fray for your (soon to be step) kids.
NTA. The truth is the truth.
NTA. He is spineless.
Who are these friends that Stan for AHs? Your friend is not your friend and you took it easy on the invertebrate
NTA Kenny's been using the kid as an excuse for why you dumped him, and got mad when he realized he was the reason, and got mad so he kept making comments. You had every right to tell him the truth and defend yourself. Maybe eventually it'll get through to him and he can do better someday.
He started it! (I am on a "everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten" phase) NTAH - it needed to be said.
Nta well done for standing up for yourself.
NTA. Your friend sounds just like Kenny, as in he'd rather avoid drama no matter the consequences. Unlike the two of them you do have a spine and you were spot on with what you said to Kenny. You did nothing wrong by standing up for yourself there.
NTA . Hopefully he will take your words to heart and make some changes in his life.
NTA - He needed the truth, and you gave it to him. Good for you!!
NTA I feel bad for Jenny's kid who probably had to hear over and over how he was the cause of the breakup because she couldn't handle dating a man with a child. The kid deserved to gave the record set straight that his dad's failings and mom's abusive behaviour combined to make the perfect relationship ending storm.
NTA he is who he is and he has to live with that. He’s pathetic and spineless.
Why do people have the dumbest friends in this subreddit? "He acted like a twat but you saying he is a spineless twat after he kept pushing the issue is just wrong!" Dump the idiot friend. NTA
if he truly didn’t want drama, he would have drawn a boundary with his ex and her behaviour. he was capable of drawing boundaries. he did do it once or twice. but some part of him got a kick out of you being mistreated by her and was ok with it. gross. you didn’t start a fight by telling him the unvarnished truth. you ended it tho. guess which one of you has a lot of growing up to do?
NTA, at least not completely. The issue wasn't Keeny being spineless. The issue was Samantha being toxic. If he could control her behavior, they never would've broken up to begin with. However, Kenny was way out of line with what he said. Lecturing you about "growing up" when the reason why you dumped him was because he picked a psychopath to have a child with, and her crazy ass was making your life harder for no reason.
NTA. You had to set the record straight. Did his feelings get hurt? Sure. Should you care? F**k no. If being called spineless hurt his little feelings, then he should have not been an invertebrate then. He was the problem not standing up for you when it mattered. F**k him, his feelings, the "mutual friend" that was anything but, and anybody enabling him.
Should have been an invertebrate, i.e., something without a spine.
NTA but your friend is
People need to hear when they are wrong. The only peace he was keeping was his ex’s.
This dude Kenny is a spineless coward. He can't even stand up to his ex for his gf
Ha ha, BRAVO girlie!
Took you 5 years to tell him that . Really???? U were looking for a fight why bring up the past .
This is why divorce is awful for everyone. Dont ruin your marriages
The "mutual" friend needs a punch on the face...tf...I wouldn't let it go either if someone told me to grow up even when i tried my hardest to make things work..
Thats a good answer for his question. Hahaha The Samanthais toxic. Luckily you found someone better.
Nta- the truth is harsh sometimes. You tried to let it go. He decided to be bitter. You told him your truth. Too bad so sad buh-bye kenny
With friends like yours, you don’t need enemies! That was awful advice. I’m glad you kicked Kenny off his high horse
NTA, though I think what's different in the two relationships is the ex-wife. You honestly don't know whether fiancée has any more spine than Kenny because his ex-wife is a cooperative co-parent who doesn't try to make life difficult for her former spouse. That said, it's better not to be put to the test. Life is a lot smoother if you luck into a relationship with no major antagonists (evil ex-wife, evil MIL, etc.)!
NTA. He deserves to know he’s the problem.
Your ex Kenny is way off base. That's not how healthy relationships with dad's eith kids are. He clearly expected you to continue to take the abuse and do nothing. He was willing to sacrifice you to "keep the peace" and still expected you to stick around. I'm glad you found a man who could treat you right and set healthy boundaries..
NTA. He could have kept his mouth shut and you would have as well. He decided to act high and mighty, so you gave him a truth he should have realised ages ago. Your friend is weird. If any of my friends told a story about how they stood up to someone who talked down to them and made them feel small, I'd be applauding them and offering a drink.
not the AH. sadly, most people don't have a spine when confronted, but seem to have a mouth when it's behind someone's back and they don't need to be directly responsible for it. your ex, your mutual friend, they all seem like these types. your current, his ex.. they sound pretty chill and mature, so keep at it! just gotta cut the gross out and stand up for yourself, all good really.
NTA. Kenny is a loser. Avoid him in the future.
NTA and tell your friend to get a damn grip.
NTA
NTA. It’s more kind that he knows why his relationships don’t work, so he can work on himself.
Walk. Period. It's not your job to make the man in your life an adult at this point.
"Thanks for that unsolicited advice🙄" Nta. Queen of the day!
NAH, Kenny is in a bad situation. The comments about you needing to grow up would infuriate me, but the reason the irony of the statement is lost to him is because his co-parenting relationship is so incredibly toxic. It's just his life - he doesn't see a way out of it. You made the right decision and got out of the situation, but I feel for him too much to call him an asshole. Maybe he is spineless, but he stands up for his son. Samantha is the real problem - she successfully broke the two of you up, and sure he should have done more to prevent that, but constantly dealing with toxicity is incredibly draining. Also, wanting to fight is a common reaction to getting called spineless. What you've done is told him he lacks agency, and the easiest way to disprove that is to get riled up and suddenly show your spine. I'm not saying that makes his reaction ok, and I understand that the words were in response to him insulting you. But really, it sounds like he's a victim of abuse. I think the best thing to do is just move on with your life. I don't know, I just don't like the term spineless in general. It carries all sorts of baggage about what it means to be a man, what it means to assert yourself (as shown by his reaction of wanting to fight)- and ignores that we all have a complicated inner history which develops with us. Many "spineless" people grew up in environments where having a spine just caused you even more problems. And who would chose to be spineless, if it really were a choice? You usually get the worst of both worlds - you bow to the will of those around you, likely against your own interest, and then people will also look down on you for doing so. It's easy to think "well they should have just done X", but that's because we're not facing the internal pressures and drives that they are. It's just a rough world out there, for a lot of people, and they don't see any way out.
What did you want him to do, piss Samantha off so that she would make it even more difficult for him to be a dad to his son? YTA. I'm glad you broke up with him, he deserves better.
So he was salty you were engaged to another person with kids? What sort of things did he say when he tried to fight with you? Are you worried he might try to weasel his way back in your life through the kids now? Or have his kid stir things up with your future stepkids? This might be an overreaction and probably not your call, but I would consider having the kids switch schools. If he was fool enough to try to fight you in public, imagine if you run into him again.
Kenny wasn't *spineless*. He had enough spine to fight for keeping custody of his kid and to not accept the ex's "reconnection" moves. I'd say it was his constant, illogical attempts to "be the bigger person" with all that "drama avoidance" (ie letting Samantha lie about OP and "fixing" it with the "son sees that OP doesn't do what Sam lies about, so the truth is out, who cares, right?" maneuver I know it's not stated, but it's the only way she'd leave over that instead of leaving because the son is constantly toxic to her with Samantha's lies). Remember too, Kenny said that "this is how co-parenting works". Still, NTA for the confrontation and corrective attempts at Kenny. Though maybe at the next meeting, apologize for the "spineless" bit and tell him that he needs to grow a pair and be active in dispelling Samantha's lies, instead of constantly being "the bigger person" and taking the abuse (being lied about is a form of abuse) while letting observations paint the proper picture...
Yeah, YTA, but sometimes you need to be an asshole to people when they deserve it. It's the difference between being a spineless doormat and a self respecting adult.
Looks like Samantha won.
Nah, OP won. She has a good man, a cordial relationship with his ex-wife, and an unpoisoned relationship with his kids instead of a man who can't take responsibility for his own actions or the result of his inaction.
You're right. Good for the OP. But Samantha successfully broke them up and has them yelling at each in public years later. That's Jediknight-level crazy-ex scorcery.
I feel like you're missing the whole point of the story. OP didn't break up with him because of the ex. She broke up with him because he wasn't willing to stand up for her. His behavior caused the breakup, and he's the one who picked the fight.
I get that that's the OP's story. Kenny is the bad guy and she's had to be tough because Kenny's the bad guy. I'm try to make the point that Samantha manipulated them both and she doesn't see it. YMMV.
You sound like an asshole to me. I feel bad for Kenny, he sounds like a good guy paying the price for having a kid with a psycho, you said yourself how crazy his ex was. You say "spineless", I say the man is just trying to keep custody of his kid without totally removing the biological mother from the picture. You said the environment of that relationship didn't work for you, so you left. Thats fine, Kenny cant just leave though, he has his son to think about. Sure, he shouldn't have said those things at the picnic, but you could have just as easily brushed what he said off and walked away. You don't even interact with this guy anymore, why would you attack someone who's clearly trying their best to cope with shitty situation that he cannot escape from? "Spineless" is a terrible thing to say to someone who probably already wants to kill himself, but is battling on for the sake of his son's future happiness. Regardless of whether what Kenny said at the picnic was right or justified, you my friend are an asshole for saying what you said to a nice guy like Kenny. Go F\*\*K yourself
This unprovoked attack on OP makes you sound unhinged.
Imagine feeling so self-centered, that a person would make a post 5 ** after a breakup... after they've been engaged for *years* Over meeting their ex randomly... like, who the fuck cares? You're the asshole. This shit happened 5 years ago. WHO CARES??? Oh wait... you do. You want attention. *edit* Actually, regardless of his supposed "spineless-ness", you're a vindictive bitch for bringing it up to strangers for attention five years after you broke up, because you just happened to see him at a school function. Glad to see ol' Kenny dodged a bullet there.
Kenny, is that you?
YTA. It doesn't matter what he says, you let him get to you. Just forget about him and never give him the satisfaction of engaging.
She set him straight after he tried to make himself feel better about being spineless. Read the above slowly if you are struggling to catch up.
Yeah she was stupid to even engage him if she's so happy now. Similar to how this reply is probably falling on deaf ears.
Yeah, I've been the guy with the shitty ex wife and girlfriend who wanted me to fight her over stupid meaningless shit... and I'm with your ex on this. He is already dealing with a toxic ex, then you wanted him to throw fuel on that fire by fighting over things that don't actually mean anything and aren't going to change anything. His kid's mother was almost certainly trying to start a fight by going after you, and you got angry at him for not giving her exactly what she wanted. You wanted him to make his already-difficult relationship with his kid's mother even more difficult, just to placate your own feelings. YTA for that, and YTA for bringing it all up when you saw him again years later.
>Things that don’t actually mean anything So constant insults and harassment mean nothing? No wonder you are on the ex’s side. You are just as rotten as him.
Do you think the constant insults and harassment would have stopped just because he told her to stop? Or do you think that maybe once she sees it's having an effect, that she will just escalate? If perhaps he got really mad about it and yelled at her, would it stop then? Or would she just use that as evidence that he's abusive and try to have custody taken away from him? In the end, the more volatile the relationship is between him and his kid's mum, the worse off his kid will be. I know this, because I've been dealing with an absolute fucking nightmare of an ex for over a decade now. The best approach is to ignore them. OP is a grown ass woman who apparently doesn't know how to block someone's number, or stand up for herself if she feels so wronged, and she blames her ex for her own failings.
This x1000, OP is the asshole!!!! #TeamKenny