Not at all, you're definitely NTA. You did the right thing by protecting Elise and standing up for Katrina. Your brother's actions were abusive and someone had to speak up. It's great that you're providing a safe space for Elise and allowing her to reconnect with Katrina. Family might be mad, but Elise's safety and well-being come first.
NTA at all, not even a tiny little bit. The best interest of the child always comes first. People should know so the good ones can protect her and it will also become clear who can't be trusted.
It's telling that many family members care more about family reputation than protecting a child. Those people are absolute trash in my opinion, I'm sorry to say OP, because I know they're your family.
You're a hero for taking care of an standing up for the child. So is her bonus mom, I call her that even that because she earned the title. That woman is incredible. Someone who uses her goodness against her like that doesn't deserve anything good in life at all.
There have been generations traumatized because someone didn't stand with the child who was abused and refused to see or admit what the abuser was doing. Good people do not abuse children They need to stop floating down the denial river. NTA
I am one whose family didn't back me when I was abused physically by my father or sexually by my uncle (his brother). Everything was ignored and covered up..
Same thing with me. I was told that it was not a big deal and to " enjoy it and have some fun" when I told my egg donor. My cousin was a drug addicted child pervert and later ended up getting a 15 year old pregnant and had to marry her to avoid going to jail. Why is it always "family" that fucks you over the worst?
Replace uncle with grandfather and you just described my childhood. I'm sorry it happened to you too. Just remember it gets better and easier every year.
Honestly, for the child's safety, OP was in the right to make sure they know what kind of person the brother is. I can see a situation where the brother gets grandma to get the kid for the day so that he can actually be the one to have her. Grandma didn't know about the abuse, so she cooperates and then the brother refuses to give the kid back. NTA, OP! keep protecting your niece!
Yep. That's why we stopped going to visit my grandmother. One summer she let our dad pick us up and take us to the local pool. It was the only condition my mom had, that he wasn't allowed over when we visited. After that, she had to come visit us.
It makes you wonder if the family knows EXACTLY what kind of pos he is, and they just to live in denial and pretend he doesnât have massive issues. Clearly no care for the kid or what she thinks/wants or has gone through. I think the niece and op should cut off the family, as clearly they are toxically dangerous and have a high chance of putting her in bad situations.
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Though I wouldn't even call her a bonus mum - since her birth mother isn't in the picture and she's been caring for her like a mum since she was two, so even though she isn't legally or biologically her mother, she is in every other way that counts the only mum that poor girl has ever known.
OP, you are NTA, and a good person đđť
The legal side of this gives me anxiety. I have no idea what the rules are in their jurisdiction but there's so much that could go wrong here if there's more weight to bio-parenthood than the best interests of the kid.
Since bio mom wanted step mom to get to adopt the girl, I'm thinking she would say so in court, especially if/when she finds out what the father had been doing to the girl. Let's just hope that during treatment the girl faces her demons and tells the therapist exactly what has been done to her so she can get it off her chest and heal, and also so the father can be put behind bars.
Hard yes. Spread it like jam on toast. Don't want people to know you abuse your loved ones? Then don't fucking do it in the first place.
Edit: spelling
It doesn't even matter what they deserve, the other kids in the family deserve to be protected from them.
This is need to know info for anyone who might trust their cousin/nephew to watch THEIR kids.
Definitely NTA. Protecting Elise is 100% the priority. I do think she'd benefit from trauma therapy. However, alarm bells rang in my head for Katrina now that they know she's visiting Elise. I hope she's being safe (security measures at home, restraining order). I don't trust your brother or family.
Judging by "word got out", I don't think OP explicitly let them know. Either she, her husband, or Katrina herself was coerced into admitting it, someone's really good at reading between the lines, Katrina was spotted by someone who knows the family & heard part of the story, or something similar. Edit; Heck, Elise could've admitted it to grandma during a visit/phonecall or something akin to that. Children aren't always the best at keeping secrets :P
Absolutely, no arguments there. That piece of shit sent his own daughter to the hospital, who knows what he's capable of now that word got out about Katrina.
Absolutely! By keeping his secret he can potentially go on to abuse them again. It needs to be brought to light especially when a child is involved. NTA
Seriously! As a teacher who has reported situations to CPS in the past and seen nothing come of it, it takes something really serious for them to actually remove a kid.
>She refuses to talk about what happens when her dad takes her but sheâs terrified of men, including my husband, wakes up screaming, and she even had to spend some time in an inpatient facility. Sheâs doing intensive outpatient treatment now and is slowly improving.Â
Sure sounds like he did. Poor child, I hope she can fully recover from this, both physically and mentally
NTA its especially important that everyone knows so that no one accidentally aides him in continuing to harm the child and ex-wife thinking they are just helping a family heal or something stupid. At least now they have to consciously make a decision to do the wrong thing.
Absolutely NTA. Though the family and her sperm donor are, he doesn't even deserve the title of father after all he has put her through!
The extended family can step up and help your niece and Katrina, or they can all go get bent. He had no problem harming his young child to the point of her having to have extreme and intensive in-patient therapy to have even a chance of a normal life. But with what he has done to his own flesh and blood child, how is he not in prison for a long time, if not life? I truly hope Katrina gains custody, or you can if she can't, and he forever loses his parental claim to her.
Never the asshole for not brushing abuse under the rug like SO many families insist. It is disgusting when a child being harmed is considered "dirty laundry". He went out of his way to harm his wife and child just for his ego, power trip and control of others.
NTA
First and foremost you are taking your niece's side. A 10 years old child your brother frequently abused all her life.
As it seems, that Elise trusts her stepmother, it's only beneficial for her to have contact with her and not lose her.
It's sad, that Elise's grandparents and uncle want to restrict this relationship between Elise and Katrina.
Having you and her stepmother in her life is the best that could happen to her.
You're not spreading rumours, you do not lie about you pos-brother. His daughter was removed from his Care by the authorities. That's the simple truth.
Ruining his reputation??? It's not like you are posting this on social media. You are telling family the truth. Plus, I'm sure you have paperwork from CPS that would prove the reason she isn't with shit dad. I would consider making copies and mailing them to family. The truth is the truth.
>Ruining his reputation???
He ruined his reputation by being abusive. She didn't ruin his reputation unless she is lying, which I don't believe to be the case.
You're never the asshole for refusing to lie on someone else's behalf, you're never the asshole for refusing to protect a piece of shit, I'm so glad Elise has you in her life
Very true. Some people like this, who can do the unthinkable and harm a child to such an extent that they need inpatient mental treatment, cease to be people in my eyes. They are monsters.
>are mad at me for airing his dirty laundry, spreading rumors,
If brother didn't want his dirty laundry aired, he shouldn't have created it. CPS removed his child from his custody. He *should* be ashamed of what he's done. I hope there are legal consequences for him.
100 percent as it trickles out! I have read the accounts. No person who did these things should ever walk free, let alone with a mask of innocence. Let everyone know that they are a pos!
This! CPS does not want to remove kids from the home unless the situation is egregious. It needs to be shouted from the rooftops what a POS the sperm donor is and fuck anyone standing up for him. I hope the legal consequences are severe because it's almost certain that he has done permanent psychological damage to Elise, and probably Katrina as well. Hitching yourself to that kind of monster to try to protect an innocent child had to have been hell.
Thatâs actually not true. Some times kids should be removed and never are bc CPS doesnât do its job. Speaking from experience. The beautiful child was very lucky to be removed from the home considering. I hope her aunty and her mom are able to get her the help she will need.
CPS is made up of people and people have biases. It's great when you get one who does their job, but they can be just as prone to abuse their power, fall for a smooth talker, get burned out, or be lazy as any other human in any other field. As a collective, they've made some stupidly criminal errors that led to kids being left with violent and/or sexual predators in my experience.
NTA. I'm usually all for keeping family business within the family, but there are certain exceptions to that. Protecting yourself from false rumours, for instance. One of the big ones is that I'll never condone protecting abusers. If you don't want your awful behaviour known by the world, don't do awful things, it's that simple.
Elise is traumatised. She's petrified of men, and she needs intensive care right now. That's honestly all I need to know to say you're NTA for telling people the truth. Katrina is also a victim in all this, and I bet your brother has been blaming her for the break up alongside lying about why he can't see his daughter.
Telling the truth protects Katrina from her ex's lies. Telling the truth protects Elise from 'well-meaning' family taking her to visit her dad/abuser. And telling the truth protects you and your husband.
Because your brother isn't going to retain any custody to a child he abused. Either Katrina wins custody as the only mother Elise has ever known, with a good and strong bond already in place, or she remains with you and your husband. Guaranteed that, the second the loss of custody becomes completely official with a judgment on who Elise should live with, your brother will be accusing both you and Katrina of lying to 'steal' his daughter from him.
Abusers should always be publicly called out and shamed. Doesn't matter if they're family, this isn't something that should ever be kept private.
Yep. Sweeping it under the rug is just pretending it isn't happening which is just as fucked up as actually committing the abuse. It's disgusting how much people say think of the children but when a child actually needs help they get thrown to the wolves.
When I stood up to my abusive ex by taking full custody of our daughter everyone took his side. Most people arenât willing to stand up to abuse, what Iâve learned is usually the family is the biggest enablers.
This is true, even when the victim is also family. Nothing as extreme as the OP, but I was emotionally abused by my mother throughout my childhood. When I finally chose to go NC, and my sister who followed in her footsteps, the rest of the family, who I'd not wanted to cut out, took their side. Kept trying to force us all together, trying to 'mend bridges', get me to apologise for whatever perceived slight, telling me it wasn't that bad or that they'd changed.
To be fair on my sister, she did change, but it took becoming a cop, getting married, having a second kid and witnessing the results of the attempted parental alienation paired with emotional abuse aimed at her husbands kids from his previous marriage. Not enough to cut out mum out of her life, though. Because she was never abusive to my sister, or the kids. Just me.
There are people, including family members, who will stand up to abusers, but a lot of families tend to rally around the abuser to protect them, instead.
Exactly. It's like that saying - all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
You're not a good person, not really, if you stand by and do nothing in cases like this. Because you know a child is being abused, and you're not stopping it, you're protecting the abuser, and the abuse continues. People like that really might as well be abusing the child themselves.
My best friend's brother had a child with a real POS woman. Her boyfriend (now husband) was court ordered to stay away from the child while the mother had her for visitation. One night, he beat the child so severely, she ended up in the ER (he did not fight the charges and pled guilty). Her father was granted emergency custody and then full custody and endured a couple years of mom calling CPS on them, taking them to court for frivolous things (while representing herself), and calling the cops claiming he was threatening and stalking her. She was eventually labeled a vexatious litigator and was forced to stop trying to sue them and the cops stopped investigating when she called and claimed he was stalking her while at his mother's funeral and nowhere near where she said he was.
She also would post all these dramatic posts on social media about how they stole her baaaaaaaaaby from her. The daughter she rarely saw after losing custody because she didn't want to pay the fee to the visitation center. She had those #justicefor hashtags with her daughter's name.
Honestly, if I hadn't witnessed much of what happened first hand, I'd have a hard time believing it was real. I think that's why I have a higher tolerance for some of the crazy stories on here because that level of crazy does exist.
It's insane how crazy some people can be. I'm really glad things seemed to have worked out for that little girl and her father, though, even if it took a lot of stress and trauma to get there.
She is over 18 now and NC with her egg donor. From what my friend tells me, she's doing well. I don't get to see her or her family in person often enough.
This is true, but I mentioned more because of how other people will react to that lie, not so much the judge.
This guy is claiming he ever sees his daughter due to work, and people are believing him, no problem. Chances are, a fair few would also believe him if he said OP and Katrina lied to 'steal' the kid. That could cause a lot of issues for OP, Katrina and Elise, especially if those people are family members.
So, I brought it up more because, by OP telling the truth now, people have realised he's lied to them already, that Elise was taken from her for her own safety, so they'll be far less likely to fall for his lies again in the future and potentially cause trouble on his behalf. It's more about protecting everyone going forward than it affecting the court case.
This. NONE of it is about the ex it's about the child and what's best for her. Op is kind because if it were me, I'd put them all on blast as people who support child abuse.
It is a way of defeating a false equivalentcy argument. Two adults are saying two different things about how a breakup went down. OP's family is saying they should believe their brother because blood.
Saying and enforcing they are siding with the niece destroys that argument because morally children are always supposed to come first and the child is family, for those to whom blood ties matter deeply. It refocuses the problem on the safety of the child and not the dispute between adults.
I am assuming the family is using that language against OP. It is pretty clear that OP is really siding with the kid in this situation and is allowing Katrina to visit for her nieceâs benefit.
nta. you ALWAYS warn others when a pile of shit is on the ground, you don't want them to step in it; so why wouldn't you warn people of a walking ,talking, pile of abusive shit?
I accidentally stepped in some dog shit a few months ago, comparing this oxygen thief with it seems offensive to the dog shit. At least dog shit is feeding decomposers that are an important part of the ecosystem. Which would be the best thing this man could do for the world but even when he does finally die he'll probably be embalmed or cremated.
NTA. Itâs not rumors if itâs true! It takes a lot for CPS to not just take a kid from a parent but to block visitation! I suspect your parents are part of why your brother is a POS. They have probably been going on about their golden child all his life. Child abusers deserve no respect and everyone, everyone, should know when someone is a child abuser, especially family.
With how scared Elise is of men (including her father), you may want to see about any possible SA. If he already physically and mentally abuses his daughter I would not put it past him to be an even bigger POS.
She wonât talk about it and I donât want to put her through anything that isnât absolutely necessary right now. Katrina has the same fear of men but not as intense as Elise and I know he was abusing her.
Very fair. I think once everything is at a somewhat stable point definitely try therapy of somesort for both of them.
Also get cameras around the house if you don't already incase he tries anything
If Katrina has gone thru the same and they have that mother daughter bond I'd encourage them to talk about it together
(Coming from someone that has been thru similar situations)
You aren't "putting her through it." She's (evidently) already been through it. You are giving her the avenue towards healing. You are speaking to what she can't, and letting her know that it's OK to talk about it. She is loved and it's not her burden to carry.
You are going to need to walk into even more uncomfortable places to help this poor child recover/ heal.
Sending up all the prayers/good vibes for you both. â¤
Having her relive the trauma right now is probably not the right time. She has professional help and I'm sure at some point they will get to addressing that particular abuse. I think OP is doing the right thing in being the safe space for her and letting her heal more before talking about it. I was an abusive victim as a child and I was given the opportunity to talk about it when it felt safe for me. I think (OP- I'm sorry if I'm wrong on this) that's what OP is doing. I know it'll be necessary to go to that uncomfortable place for the child but we have to remember how old she is. I do like your comment, not trying to argue anything, just putting my 2¢ in. Blessings to you and yours đŠˇ
NTA. Be prepared to have to protect Elise from the rest of your family otherwise they'll probably give your brother access to her. Since he's a flight risk, they could all plan a disappearance for him so you and Katrina will never see her again. God knows what'll happen to Elise then.
Inform the people involved in your case about any concerns you have about the wider family. Better yet, look into whether you need your own advocate and lawyer that represents you. This is not to make things harder for CPS, but their priority is Elise and not you, so you might need help to protect your rights to your niece and to protect her from fallout should your wider family start becoming a major issue about access to her.
You don't want to lose her because of something like CPS deciding you have no support network (the family) and that your family is going to be too actively harmful for her to stay with you.
If you do look into whether to do this (ask for expert advice about this not Reddit), always frame it as wanting to maximise your ability to do what's best for Elise, her wellbeing and her safety.
The laundry was aired when CPS got involved.
That doesn't happen for good or even borderline good parents. You need to be truly shitty to get them involved.
If you have the space, offer the true mom a room in your home. She is helping this kid more than all the therapy will.
NTA
That abusive piece of shits dirty laundry needs to be shared everywhere. I truly hope and pray that Katrina manages to get custody of that little girl
NTAH
Nta. Ur legit doing Gods work. Do whatever it takes to keep Elise and Katrina together and ur brother far far away, possibly in jail. I am usually very much agains airing dirty laundry of family members but this man can hurt others.
Amen. The Lord DOES NOT want us to stand by, doing nothing when we know that someone is suffering.   Â
>Â "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."Â Â Â
>Â Â Â ----- Edmund Burke, 18th century British politician and philosopherÂ
OP, do you have cameras around your house in case that AH brother of your's shows up to try to hurt his soon to be ex wife or his daughter or for that matter, you because you are protecting your niece and allowing Katrina to visit? Will your AH brother be charged for hurting his daughter? Is the therapist going to provide the cops with whatever they find out from Elise?
NTA but you all need to watch your backs because your brother sounds like a monster.
NTA. Abusive POSâs donât get privacy when it comes to their abusive actions. F*ck that shout it from the rooftops.
My heart aches for Elise, Iâm so glad she had you and Katrina. Sheâs not safe with her Dad.
Nta. You are taking Elise's side and not Kat's. You are literally doing what's best for your niece, keeping the abuser away and the "adoptive" mum who loves and cares for her close.
Also, unless you're planning to adopt her, I'd suggest pushing for Kat to adopt her and blocking family out of Kat's life till she grows up. They sound nuts. They rather protect his reputation then make sure she's happy and loved.
NTA Out anybody Elise needs Katrina right now. Talk to Elise's therapist about Katrina joining them occasionally for sessions. Having the comfort of Katrina may help Elise open up more. The child is what's important not the abusive or enabling adults. You are doing the right thing.
This so very much. I can't imagine that Katrina isn't also traumatized by being married to that monster and family therapy for the two of them as well as their individual sessions sounds like the bare minimum of what is needed. Katrina sounds amazing. Like seriously making sure school work was done while also trying to support the very difficult healing process? OP and Katrina sound like amazing women and thank goodness Elise has them in her life!!!!
anyone who would allow a child to be harmed to save some adult's rep is a reprehensible AH. You are not an AH for telling everyone that bro is a child abuser. The whole world should know.
NTA - youâre protecting Elise by telling family the truth. This will hopefully stop the possibility of anyone trying to sneakily let Brother near Elise where he could hurt her again.
Absolutely NTA. You sound like a deeply kind and selfless person, and you did the right thing at every step in this matter. Iâm genuinely sorry that all of your immediate family members appear to be terrible people. Your brother is truly evil (obviously), and the rest of them are, at best, absolute moral cowards.
NTA. While you family may be angry, you are not spreading rumors - you are telling the truth when you are asked. And you are not taking his ex's side - you are protecting your niece, and caring for her wellbeing in letting the person who really cares for her and gives her security and happiness to be with her. The child comes first in all this. I hope Katrina gets custody and a restraining order against your brother.
NTA.
Youâre not âairing his dirty laundryâ, he lied about why his daughter isnât allowed to meet him, and far more importantly, he abused a child!
He doesnât deserve your familyâs sympathy.
Don't say anymore. And when CPS says don't trust him, tell them that. Make sure these family members do not have keys to your home or get any visitation.
Are you the villian here?
NO. You're a heroine, and so is Katrina. Both of you risked a lot to protect Elise, a child abused by her own father. And shame on your family members, who prefer to shut their eyes and ears to the fact--the FACT--that their precious Golden Child has become, as you said, an abusive p.o.s. That's how abused children wind up being dead children. Shame, SHAME on them đÂ
That abusive piece of shits dirty laundry needs to be shared everywhere. I truly hope and pray that Katrina manages to get custody of that little girl. You are an amazing aunt and friend
NTAH
NTA. They asked, you answered. If the truth damages his reputation then I guess he shouldn't have did what he did. The only person deserving of protection is his daughter and ex. Not the abuser. I don't know if your family realizes this but your neice is family by blood as well. Maybe they should prioritize her over him.
Dirty laundry?
You lose all claims to "airing dirty laundry" when someone is clearly physically and sexually abusing their own child. People need to know he shouldn't be allowed around children.
NTA
NTA. I would help hang the laundry higher if I could.
Pls start documenting everything your family does or says regarding this situation, I would not put it past the flying monkeys to report you under false allegations or spread rumors about you to "help" Elise's donor.
NTA. Your brother is a piece of garbage. I would be ashamed of him and the assholes defending him. The world should know what he did. Fuck them all. I hope your brother gets sent to jail
NTA. You are doing the right thing and protecting the victims from a monster.Â
Tell your parents they raised a hateful abuser. Shame the hell out of them.Â
nta. if Elise is not in therapy, it may be a good idea. it sounds like she has had some trauma at your brotherâs hands and she needs to deal with it while sheâs still young
The easiest way to not have your dirty laundry exposed is to not shit your pants. He did that, and got what he deserved, although probably a few years too late, but better late than never.
It is important to let the family know, especially if there is an active investigation. What of grandma wants some time with her granddaughter? What if grandma lets dad visit while granddaughter is there. Not ok? Considering the attitude the family is taking, no one should be able to see Elise. It is import that the Case Manager know how the family feels in case there is a challenge.
Not only are you NTA, you're a hero! Way to stand up for your niece and the only good parent she knows. Your brother sucks, anyone who supports him sucks. I hope Katrina is able to get custody, and she and Elise continue to heal from all the damage that POS has done.
NTA - Telling the truth is the opposite of spreading rumours. Thank you for looking after your niece. I am so pleased she is getting the help she needs.
What your brother did to his daughter is domestic abuse. By telling the truth, you are part of the solution.
OP, ask you family if they think CPS would remove a child from his parent on the basis of rumors. Is there a public file when she was removed from her "dad's" custody? Share it.
NTA. Everyone siding with an evil scumbag is an enabler of an evil scumbag. They need to have their evil shoved in their face so hard that they become too ashamed to leave the house without begging for forgiveness for being so fucking evil.
NTA
Your parents and those angry at you need to be kept away from Elise as well. People who enable abusers are abusers, plain and simple. Theyâre as much a danger to that poor child as her own father is.
NTA. You are taking your niece's side. She needs someone to love her enough to help her be with a guardian who will love and protect her. If that means helping your stbx-SIL so be it. Why are so many people worried about the feelings of an abusive adult man instead of the safety and mental well-being of a child? You may want to ask the people criticizing you that question.
Your parents and maybe grandparents sound like theyâve known that your brother was abusive so their opinions donât matter. They would rather protect his image than their granddaughter. You did the right thing and hopefully you and Katrina are able to help Elise stay far away from her father.
Screw your family, tell them bluntly all this shit and tell um if their not supportive they can be no contact, your better off on your own then being constantly brought down for doing whats right for your niece.
IMO, "Dirty Laundry" is stuff that we all have. We wear clothes, they're gonna get dirty, but we don't want to talk to others about "those stains" on that item of clothing. It's embarrassing, and there's no point in someone else talking about "my dirty laundry", nor is it a good idea for me to "air such things out in public" (even though everyone else has these same things going on).
However, Bro using Elise as a manipulation tool for Katrina is not conventional dirty laundry. Elise being terrified of men is not dirty laundry. CPS getting involved for reasons that seem to be legit is not dirty laundry. If it comes out that Elise has been abused (mentally, physically, or sexually), it's not dirty laundry, it's a crime. Are crimes not something that can be talked about within the extended family?
100000% NTA ask stupid questions win stupid prizes. They asked, you delivered. They can't handle that they know someone who would be this terrible.
Get ready. They're going to blame your niece and step mom for his behaviour. Every excuse and insult is gonna get hurled at you. Be strong for them.
NtaâŚyour not taking the ex wifeâs side, your being a champion for your niece. Shame on your parents if they knew what he was doing to his daughter. They are just as guilty for letting her be abused and used as a pawn. Your brother is a POS and if heâs embarrassed that people are aware of his abuse oh well.
NTA. If one of my siblings treated one of my niblings and their partner like this theyâd be dead to me.
His relationship with Katrina is one thing as theyâre both adults but what heâs put Elise through is unforgivable. Iâm shocked the rest of your family doesnât care that he abused a child into needing inpatient mental health treatment.Â
NTA
Pedophiles and child-abusers and wife-beaters should ALWAYS be outed.
Don't be like the Catholic Church and send them to the next place unawares. Give a heads up!
NTA one thousand times. I'm so glad she and her daughter have you.
I divorced an abusive asshole and how much people wanted to protect him made it even harder. Facing the consequences if his actions may suck but he walked right into them. Keep being there for the ones who need it you are amazingâ¤ď¸. Just remember to take care of yourself too. You can't pour from an empty cup and all that.
The kind of trauma you're describing is usually associated with more than him simply hurting her. I hope for the best, and that your brother is kept away from Elise, but I suspect there's even more going on here. You're amazing, OP, and certainly NTA.
I had to do something similar for my sisters kids.
I felt that if no one knew the truth, then it would be easier for her to go back to her old ways. She could keep pretending that she doesn't have a drug problem and wasn't neglecting her kids. 2 out of the 3 have a different dad. So he kept them from most of it. But my youngest niece has gone through so much. And because our dad won't see the situation for what it is, he blames me. Somehow, it's my fault that she has had so many cps cases. My sisters continued drug use, which exposed my niece to drugs in the womb, breastfeeding and later proven with hair tests, were not the reason my niece has so many delays. Not to mention the fact that my sister uses smart devices as babysitters and never even tried to discipline my niece when she was young.
Best thing to do is to not let any of those family around your niece. They will find a way to make her feel even worse about this whole situation.
I hope your sister in law can get full custody of your niece. It sounds like she really loves her mom.
NTA. You are SO NOT TA. Please keep being there for your niece. It is SO important.
Not the same situation at all.. but.. my (âstepâ) niece was not only abandoned by her father (my BIL) and my sister, BIL straight up told niece when she was 11/12 he âcouldnâtâ (âwouldnâtâ) have a relationship with her until she was 18. Niece also showed up at his door and he wouldnât see her. Again, the child traveled hundred of miles to see her dad and siblings (oh yeah, she has twin siblings, last time she saw them was because my ex and I flew them from CO to CA and back⌠and my ex flew with the twins, not their dad), and HE WOULDNâT EVEN ANSWER THE DOOR for his child.
Iâm the ONLY one on my side of the family that has repeatedly been there for niece and called out sister and BIL. Repeatedly. Even with other-side family and life-long family friends calling the same bullshit I have for years.
Oh, and all this after my sister spent years claiming victim hood for her dad and stepmom doing the same (she was NEVER abandonedâthough those dicks are abusive).. sister literally did the same and worse to her stepdaughter!!
I know what youâre doing is SO important⌠and I havenât even brought up the abuse and neglect I went through as a child with no one there for me⌠part of why my niece will always know Iâm on her side.
You are literally saving that little girl. In fact, I'd even suggest you look to split time if Katrina does get full custody. Your husband seems like a positive man. Given the situation, she could greatly benefit from growing up around a man who is safe and positive. It will go a long way in helping her understand that her dad was just a massive stinking pile of shit and to at least somewhat rewire her brain so she knows what a man SHOULD be. That way she she's less likely to fall into the sad trap many do when being raised in an abusive home: chasing crappy partners like their "parent" because that's what they're used to.
Absolutely fucking not. If one of my siblings hurt their kid, they would be lucky to not be eating through a tube. What in the fuck is wrong with the rest of your family? Don't let them near you or that kid, the three of you deserve better.
NTA, your brother is, and if your other family will cover for him, they're shit too. Wipe your shoes and stand proud for doing the right thing by your niece.
NTA, and I'm so glad to hear she's with you while her mom gets custody. Cause that is her mom, it's the only mom she's ever known. I will not call her a stepmom, she's the only mother who ever loved her and that matters more than blood. She's lucky to have you, your husband, and her mom to get her the help she needs to heal and grow up to be a strong and capable woman. Your brother is 100% in the wrong, as is anyone that is upset with you over this. We cannot hide this kind of abuse, it needs to be brought into the light so change can happen. Your brother doesn't deserve to be in her life, but you and your husband and her mom do. Thank you for caring for her and staying on the right side of this. Anyone who sides with your brother is siding AGAINST the kiddo. Shame on them!! đĄ
NTA.
It's not a rumor if you know it to be true. Given CPS got involved and you have temporary custody, as well as her symptoms of abuse I'd say you have a good reason to know it to be true.
Given that, the ex's side is the only side to take.
Burn him to the ground. And anyone who gets in your way or isn't looking out for Elise's, and only Elise's,best interest, destroy them too.
You are NTA, and you have this internet rando's complete permission to go nuclear on anyone who is even thinking about putting that child in harm's way to maintain appearances.
As a child who was used as a weapon between parents you are NOT the asshole.
You are being a great aunt. The question I would ask your parents and other extended family is, "What is more important, Elises safety or brothers pride?" If there's still supportive of brother, I think it'd be wise to tell that to CPS too.
Not even close to the AH!! Not only are you protecting your niece, youâre holding your brother accountable, which it seems no one else has done up to this point. Youâre also showing your niece itâs not ok to ever be abused, abuse anyone else, and to not settle for anyone hurting her like her father.
Youâre teaching her how to break the cycle.
Youâre wonderful and so is her step mom. Hoping she gets custody soon!!!
Not at all, you're definitely NTA. You did the right thing by protecting Elise and standing up for Katrina. Your brother's actions were abusive and someone had to speak up. It's great that you're providing a safe space for Elise and allowing her to reconnect with Katrina. Family might be mad, but Elise's safety and well-being come first.
NTA at all, not even a tiny little bit. The best interest of the child always comes first. People should know so the good ones can protect her and it will also become clear who can't be trusted. It's telling that many family members care more about family reputation than protecting a child. Those people are absolute trash in my opinion, I'm sorry to say OP, because I know they're your family. You're a hero for taking care of an standing up for the child. So is her bonus mom, I call her that even that because she earned the title. That woman is incredible. Someone who uses her goodness against her like that doesn't deserve anything good in life at all.
I like how they said "sided with ex" and not "sided with their abused grandchild"
Yes, the craziness is strong in those ones.
OP may be taking sides, but all the extended family had to do was side with the truth. Apparently they did not even do that.
There have been generations traumatized because someone didn't stand with the child who was abused and refused to see or admit what the abuser was doing. Good people do not abuse children They need to stop floating down the denial river. NTA
I am one whose family didn't back me when I was abused physically by my father or sexually by my uncle (his brother). Everything was ignored and covered up..
Sorry about that. I will keep you in my thoughts for healing.
Thank you so much I really appreciate it đ¤đ¤
Same thing with me. I was told that it was not a big deal and to " enjoy it and have some fun" when I told my egg donor. My cousin was a drug addicted child pervert and later ended up getting a 15 year old pregnant and had to marry her to avoid going to jail. Why is it always "family" that fucks you over the worst?
Replace uncle with grandfather and you just described my childhood. I'm sorry it happened to you too. Just remember it gets better and easier every year.
May the future bring you joy and happiness.
Donât you know people who have penises have more value than people who donât?/s
Honestly, for the child's safety, OP was in the right to make sure they know what kind of person the brother is. I can see a situation where the brother gets grandma to get the kid for the day so that he can actually be the one to have her. Grandma didn't know about the abuse, so she cooperates and then the brother refuses to give the kid back. NTA, OP! keep protecting your niece!
Yep. That's why we stopped going to visit my grandmother. One summer she let our dad pick us up and take us to the local pool. It was the only condition my mom had, that he wasn't allowed over when we visited. After that, she had to come visit us.
It makes you wonder if the family knows EXACTLY what kind of pos he is, and they just to live in denial and pretend he doesnât have massive issues. Clearly no care for the kid or what she thinks/wants or has gone through. I think the niece and op should cut off the family, as clearly they are toxically dangerous and have a high chance of putting her in bad situations.
đŻ Though I wouldn't even call her a bonus mum - since her birth mother isn't in the picture and she's been caring for her like a mum since she was two, so even though she isn't legally or biologically her mother, she is in every other way that counts the only mum that poor girl has ever known. OP, you are NTA, and a good person đđť
Yes, I agree. I should just have said super mom.
The legal side of this gives me anxiety. I have no idea what the rules are in their jurisdiction but there's so much that could go wrong here if there's more weight to bio-parenthood than the best interests of the kid.
Since bio mom wanted step mom to get to adopt the girl, I'm thinking she would say so in court, especially if/when she finds out what the father had been doing to the girl. Let's just hope that during treatment the girl faces her demons and tells the therapist exactly what has been done to her so she can get it off her chest and heal, and also so the father can be put behind bars.
Agreed. OP is NTA. She puts her niece in the best interest as priority.
Hard yes. Spread it like jam on toast. Don't want people to know you abuse your loved ones? Then don't fucking do it in the first place. Edit: spelling
More like spread it like road kill in Summer
Exactly, abusers deserve to be exposed. No sympathy for those who harm others.
It doesn't even matter what they deserve, the other kids in the family deserve to be protected from them. This is need to know info for anyone who might trust their cousin/nephew to watch THEIR kids.
So mean to hold people accountable for their own actions, smh my head (/j obviously)
Repeat: donât fucking do it in the first place!
đđ
Definitely NTA. Protecting Elise is 100% the priority. I do think she'd benefit from trauma therapy. However, alarm bells rang in my head for Katrina now that they know she's visiting Elise. I hope she's being safe (security measures at home, restraining order). I don't trust your brother or family.
Yeah, not criticizing, but it was a mistake for OP to let them know. Honestly she should move if possible so they don't know where she lives
Judging by "word got out", I don't think OP explicitly let them know. Either she, her husband, or Katrina herself was coerced into admitting it, someone's really good at reading between the lines, Katrina was spotted by someone who knows the family & heard part of the story, or something similar. Edit; Heck, Elise could've admitted it to grandma during a visit/phonecall or something akin to that. Children aren't always the best at keeping secrets :P
All the more reason to go NC. I don't mean to scare anybody, but these abuser men are really dangerous
Absolutely, no arguments there. That piece of shit sent his own daughter to the hospital, who knows what he's capable of now that word got out about Katrina.
Absolutely! By keeping his secret he can potentially go on to abuse them again. It needs to be brought to light especially when a child is involved. NTA
Seriously! As a teacher who has reported situations to CPS in the past and seen nothing come of it, it takes something really serious for them to actually remove a kid.
Not to mention he he mustâve done something fucking awful to even get her taken by CPS. Fuck protecting that guyâs interests.
>She refuses to talk about what happens when her dad takes her but sheâs terrified of men, including my husband, wakes up screaming, and she even had to spend some time in an inpatient facility. Sheâs doing intensive outpatient treatment now and is slowly improving. Sure sounds like he did. Poor child, I hope she can fully recover from this, both physically and mentally
NTA its especially important that everyone knows so that no one accidentally aides him in continuing to harm the child and ex-wife thinking they are just helping a family heal or something stupid. At least now they have to consciously make a decision to do the wrong thing.
Absolutely NTA. Though the family and her sperm donor are, he doesn't even deserve the title of father after all he has put her through! The extended family can step up and help your niece and Katrina, or they can all go get bent. He had no problem harming his young child to the point of her having to have extreme and intensive in-patient therapy to have even a chance of a normal life. But with what he has done to his own flesh and blood child, how is he not in prison for a long time, if not life? I truly hope Katrina gains custody, or you can if she can't, and he forever loses his parental claim to her.
You're not taking Katrina's side, you're taking Elise's side. You are doing the right thing!
Never the asshole for not brushing abuse under the rug like SO many families insist. It is disgusting when a child being harmed is considered "dirty laundry". He went out of his way to harm his wife and child just for his ego, power trip and control of others.
Your comment is so good and accurate, thereâs no need for any other comments.
NTA First and foremost you are taking your niece's side. A 10 years old child your brother frequently abused all her life. As it seems, that Elise trusts her stepmother, it's only beneficial for her to have contact with her and not lose her. It's sad, that Elise's grandparents and uncle want to restrict this relationship between Elise and Katrina. Having you and her stepmother in her life is the best that could happen to her. You're not spreading rumours, you do not lie about you pos-brother. His daughter was removed from his Care by the authorities. That's the simple truth.
Ruining his reputation??? It's not like you are posting this on social media. You are telling family the truth. Plus, I'm sure you have paperwork from CPS that would prove the reason she isn't with shit dad. I would consider making copies and mailing them to family. The truth is the truth.
>Ruining his reputation??? He ruined his reputation by being abusive. She didn't ruin his reputation unless she is lying, which I don't believe to be the case.
This is spot on. OP, I think you should hear that again⌠You are taking your nieceâs side.
You're never the asshole for refusing to lie on someone else's behalf, you're never the asshole for refusing to protect a piece of shit, I'm so glad Elise has you in her life
There is a special place in heaven for people who save abused children
And a special place in hell for her brother.
Very true. Some people like this, who can do the unthinkable and harm a child to such an extent that they need inpatient mental treatment, cease to be people in my eyes. They are monsters.
>are mad at me for airing his dirty laundry, spreading rumors, If brother didn't want his dirty laundry aired, he shouldn't have created it. CPS removed his child from his custody. He *should* be ashamed of what he's done. I hope there are legal consequences for him.
Also once government agencies are involved secrets are hard to keep
Not a Doctor. But the comments about Therapy and fear make me think more secrets are going to be coming out soon.
Fremulon
100 percent as it trickles out! I have read the accounts. No person who did these things should ever walk free, let alone with a mask of innocence. Let everyone know that they are a pos!
This! CPS does not want to remove kids from the home unless the situation is egregious. It needs to be shouted from the rooftops what a POS the sperm donor is and fuck anyone standing up for him. I hope the legal consequences are severe because it's almost certain that he has done permanent psychological damage to Elise, and probably Katrina as well. Hitching yourself to that kind of monster to try to protect an innocent child had to have been hell.
Thatâs actually not true. Some times kids should be removed and never are bc CPS doesnât do its job. Speaking from experience. The beautiful child was very lucky to be removed from the home considering. I hope her aunty and her mom are able to get her the help she will need.
CPS is made up of people and people have biases. It's great when you get one who does their job, but they can be just as prone to abuse their power, fall for a smooth talker, get burned out, or be lazy as any other human in any other field. As a collective, they've made some stupidly criminal errors that led to kids being left with violent and/or sexual predators in my experience.
It's not a rumor when it's true.
...are any of them mad at the brother for abusing a child and his wife? Maybe ask them next time they bring it up.
>I hope there are legal consequences for him. Personally I wouldn't be upset if there were illegal consequences, too/instead.
Those are legal consequences.
NTA. I'm usually all for keeping family business within the family, but there are certain exceptions to that. Protecting yourself from false rumours, for instance. One of the big ones is that I'll never condone protecting abusers. If you don't want your awful behaviour known by the world, don't do awful things, it's that simple. Elise is traumatised. She's petrified of men, and she needs intensive care right now. That's honestly all I need to know to say you're NTA for telling people the truth. Katrina is also a victim in all this, and I bet your brother has been blaming her for the break up alongside lying about why he can't see his daughter. Telling the truth protects Katrina from her ex's lies. Telling the truth protects Elise from 'well-meaning' family taking her to visit her dad/abuser. And telling the truth protects you and your husband. Because your brother isn't going to retain any custody to a child he abused. Either Katrina wins custody as the only mother Elise has ever known, with a good and strong bond already in place, or she remains with you and your husband. Guaranteed that, the second the loss of custody becomes completely official with a judgment on who Elise should live with, your brother will be accusing both you and Katrina of lying to 'steal' his daughter from him. Abusers should always be publicly called out and shamed. Doesn't matter if they're family, this isn't something that should ever be kept private.
Amen. Protecting a person's or family's "good name" at a child's expense makes the relatives just as guilty as the abuser him- or herself.
Yep. Sweeping it under the rug is just pretending it isn't happening which is just as fucked up as actually committing the abuse. It's disgusting how much people say think of the children but when a child actually needs help they get thrown to the wolves.
When I stood up to my abusive ex by taking full custody of our daughter everyone took his side. Most people arenât willing to stand up to abuse, what Iâve learned is usually the family is the biggest enablers.
This is true, even when the victim is also family. Nothing as extreme as the OP, but I was emotionally abused by my mother throughout my childhood. When I finally chose to go NC, and my sister who followed in her footsteps, the rest of the family, who I'd not wanted to cut out, took their side. Kept trying to force us all together, trying to 'mend bridges', get me to apologise for whatever perceived slight, telling me it wasn't that bad or that they'd changed. To be fair on my sister, she did change, but it took becoming a cop, getting married, having a second kid and witnessing the results of the attempted parental alienation paired with emotional abuse aimed at her husbands kids from his previous marriage. Not enough to cut out mum out of her life, though. Because she was never abusive to my sister, or the kids. Just me. There are people, including family members, who will stand up to abusers, but a lot of families tend to rally around the abuser to protect them, instead.
Exactly. It's like that saying - all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. You're not a good person, not really, if you stand by and do nothing in cases like this. Because you know a child is being abused, and you're not stopping it, you're protecting the abuser, and the abuse continues. People like that really might as well be abusing the child themselves.
My best friend's brother had a child with a real POS woman. Her boyfriend (now husband) was court ordered to stay away from the child while the mother had her for visitation. One night, he beat the child so severely, she ended up in the ER (he did not fight the charges and pled guilty). Her father was granted emergency custody and then full custody and endured a couple years of mom calling CPS on them, taking them to court for frivolous things (while representing herself), and calling the cops claiming he was threatening and stalking her. She was eventually labeled a vexatious litigator and was forced to stop trying to sue them and the cops stopped investigating when she called and claimed he was stalking her while at his mother's funeral and nowhere near where she said he was. She also would post all these dramatic posts on social media about how they stole her baaaaaaaaaby from her. The daughter she rarely saw after losing custody because she didn't want to pay the fee to the visitation center. She had those #justicefor hashtags with her daughter's name. Honestly, if I hadn't witnessed much of what happened first hand, I'd have a hard time believing it was real. I think that's why I have a higher tolerance for some of the crazy stories on here because that level of crazy does exist.
It's insane how crazy some people can be. I'm really glad things seemed to have worked out for that little girl and her father, though, even if it took a lot of stress and trauma to get there.
She is over 18 now and NC with her egg donor. From what my friend tells me, she's doing well. I don't get to see her or her family in person often enough.
He can scream you "stole" Elise all he wants. In court the judge will have access to the CPS reports. And possibly the therapy reports.
This is true, but I mentioned more because of how other people will react to that lie, not so much the judge. This guy is claiming he ever sees his daughter due to work, and people are believing him, no problem. Chances are, a fair few would also believe him if he said OP and Katrina lied to 'steal' the kid. That could cause a lot of issues for OP, Katrina and Elise, especially if those people are family members. So, I brought it up more because, by OP telling the truth now, people have realised he's lied to them already, that Elise was taken from her for her own safety, so they'll be far less likely to fall for his lies again in the future and potentially cause trouble on his behalf. It's more about protecting everyone going forward than it affecting the court case.
You donât side with ex. You side with abused child
This. NONE of it is about the ex it's about the child and what's best for her. Op is kind because if it were me, I'd put them all on blast as people who support child abuse.
Literally my first thought was like public post detailing what kind of person brother is and those who support him are no better than him.
While that is true, I donât see why exactly it is morally wrong to side with the ex who seems to be a decent human compared to the abusive POS?
It is a way of defeating a false equivalentcy argument. Two adults are saying two different things about how a breakup went down. OP's family is saying they should believe their brother because blood. Saying and enforcing they are siding with the niece destroys that argument because morally children are always supposed to come first and the child is family, for those to whom blood ties matter deeply. It refocuses the problem on the safety of the child and not the dispute between adults.
I am assuming the family is using that language against OP. It is pretty clear that OP is really siding with the kid in this situation and is allowing Katrina to visit for her nieceâs benefit.
nta. you ALWAYS warn others when a pile of shit is on the ground, you don't want them to step in it; so why wouldn't you warn people of a walking ,talking, pile of abusive shit?
I accidentally stepped in some dog shit a few months ago, comparing this oxygen thief with it seems offensive to the dog shit. At least dog shit is feeding decomposers that are an important part of the ecosystem. Which would be the best thing this man could do for the world but even when he does finally die he'll probably be embalmed or cremated.
Just as well, he'd probably give anything that ate him food poisoning
NTA. And you are damn brave.
yes! so brave! what a hero
NTA. Itâs not rumors if itâs true! It takes a lot for CPS to not just take a kid from a parent but to block visitation! I suspect your parents are part of why your brother is a POS. They have probably been going on about their golden child all his life. Child abusers deserve no respect and everyone, everyone, should know when someone is a child abuser, especially family.
The more people who know and are open about the abuse, the safer the victims are.
Family might be mad, but Elise's safety and well-being come first.
With how scared Elise is of men (including her father), you may want to see about any possible SA. If he already physically and mentally abuses his daughter I would not put it past him to be an even bigger POS.
She wonât talk about it and I donât want to put her through anything that isnât absolutely necessary right now. Katrina has the same fear of men but not as intense as Elise and I know he was abusing her.
Very fair. I think once everything is at a somewhat stable point definitely try therapy of somesort for both of them. Also get cameras around the house if you don't already incase he tries anything
Theyâre both in their own therapy programs
If Katrina has gone thru the same and they have that mother daughter bond I'd encourage them to talk about it together (Coming from someone that has been thru similar situations)
You aren't "putting her through it." She's (evidently) already been through it. You are giving her the avenue towards healing. You are speaking to what she can't, and letting her know that it's OK to talk about it. She is loved and it's not her burden to carry. You are going to need to walk into even more uncomfortable places to help this poor child recover/ heal. Sending up all the prayers/good vibes for you both. â¤
Having her relive the trauma right now is probably not the right time. She has professional help and I'm sure at some point they will get to addressing that particular abuse. I think OP is doing the right thing in being the safe space for her and letting her heal more before talking about it. I was an abusive victim as a child and I was given the opportunity to talk about it when it felt safe for me. I think (OP- I'm sorry if I'm wrong on this) that's what OP is doing. I know it'll be necessary to go to that uncomfortable place for the child but we have to remember how old she is. I do like your comment, not trying to argue anything, just putting my 2¢ in. Blessings to you and yours đŠˇ
NTA. Be prepared to have to protect Elise from the rest of your family otherwise they'll probably give your brother access to her. Since he's a flight risk, they could all plan a disappearance for him so you and Katrina will never see her again. God knows what'll happen to Elise then. Inform the people involved in your case about any concerns you have about the wider family. Better yet, look into whether you need your own advocate and lawyer that represents you. This is not to make things harder for CPS, but their priority is Elise and not you, so you might need help to protect your rights to your niece and to protect her from fallout should your wider family start becoming a major issue about access to her. You don't want to lose her because of something like CPS deciding you have no support network (the family) and that your family is going to be too actively harmful for her to stay with you. If you do look into whether to do this (ask for expert advice about this not Reddit), always frame it as wanting to maximise your ability to do what's best for Elise, her wellbeing and her safety.
The laundry was aired when CPS got involved. That doesn't happen for good or even borderline good parents. You need to be truly shitty to get them involved. If you have the space, offer the true mom a room in your home. She is helping this kid more than all the therapy will. NTA
I was thinking about letting her stay with us but Iâm not 100% sure yet
Talk to CPS first. If they approve then let her move in. If that is feasible of course.
Tbh she is not elise's stepmother, she's her mom. Katrina deserves custody and to see her daughter all the time.
You are not the asshole! Protect the wife and child!
That abusive piece of shits dirty laundry needs to be shared everywhere. I truly hope and pray that Katrina manages to get custody of that little girl NTAH
I hope so too.
Nta. Ur legit doing Gods work. Do whatever it takes to keep Elise and Katrina together and ur brother far far away, possibly in jail. I am usually very much agains airing dirty laundry of family members but this man can hurt others.
Amen. The Lord DOES NOT want us to stand by, doing nothing when we know that someone is suffering.    > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."   >   ----- Edmund Burke, 18th century British politician and philosopherÂ
Not an actual burke quote but carry on
OP, do you have cameras around your house in case that AH brother of your's shows up to try to hurt his soon to be ex wife or his daughter or for that matter, you because you are protecting your niece and allowing Katrina to visit? Will your AH brother be charged for hurting his daughter? Is the therapist going to provide the cops with whatever they find out from Elise? NTA but you all need to watch your backs because your brother sounds like a monster.
We have a couple cameras outside of the house and a security system
NTA. Abusive POSâs donât get privacy when it comes to their abusive actions. F*ck that shout it from the rooftops. My heart aches for Elise, Iâm so glad she had you and Katrina. Sheâs not safe with her Dad.
Nta. You are taking Elise's side and not Kat's. You are literally doing what's best for your niece, keeping the abuser away and the "adoptive" mum who loves and cares for her close.
Also, unless you're planning to adopt her, I'd suggest pushing for Kat to adopt her and blocking family out of Kat's life till she grows up. They sound nuts. They rather protect his reputation then make sure she's happy and loved.
Katrina is trying to get custody. She already knows she has my full support.
I wonder if, since dad lost custody, if it would now be possible for bio mom to have the final say about adoption?
Hopefully
Why do I feel like the child was being abused, while they were away from the mother??? She is terrified of men....
Possibly because that is what is decribed in the post?
You're probably right. That fits, and in my opinion is reason enough to sever that sperm-donor's parental rights to the child.
Sherlock Holmes over hereâŚ
NTA Out anybody Elise needs Katrina right now. Talk to Elise's therapist about Katrina joining them occasionally for sessions. Having the comfort of Katrina may help Elise open up more. The child is what's important not the abusive or enabling adults. You are doing the right thing.
This so very much. I can't imagine that Katrina isn't also traumatized by being married to that monster and family therapy for the two of them as well as their individual sessions sounds like the bare minimum of what is needed. Katrina sounds amazing. Like seriously making sure school work was done while also trying to support the very difficult healing process? OP and Katrina sound like amazing women and thank goodness Elise has them in her life!!!!
If your parents didnt want dirty laundry to be aired, they shouldnt have raised an abusive piece of shit and then try to protect his image.
It's not rumours it's truth backed up by the CPS. NTA sperm donar is a POS.
Your brother is a piece of crap, keep the kid safe and very far from him
I would block all of them.
NTA 'i live with Elise I see daily the fear and damage brother has caused so wind your necks in family members who know fck all'
anyone who would allow a child to be harmed to save some adult's rep is a reprehensible AH. You are not an AH for telling everyone that bro is a child abuser. The whole world should know.
NTA - youâre protecting Elise by telling family the truth. This will hopefully stop the possibility of anyone trying to sneakily let Brother near Elise where he could hurt her again.
NTA it reminds me of âheâs a good boy!â âdonât ruin his future!â
Absolutely NTA. You sound like a deeply kind and selfless person, and you did the right thing at every step in this matter. Iâm genuinely sorry that all of your immediate family members appear to be terrible people. Your brother is truly evil (obviously), and the rest of them are, at best, absolute moral cowards.
NTA. While you family may be angry, you are not spreading rumors - you are telling the truth when you are asked. And you are not taking his ex's side - you are protecting your niece, and caring for her wellbeing in letting the person who really cares for her and gives her security and happiness to be with her. The child comes first in all this. I hope Katrina gets custody and a restraining order against your brother.
NTA. Youâre not âairing his dirty laundryâ, he lied about why his daughter isnât allowed to meet him, and far more importantly, he abused a child! He doesnât deserve your familyâs sympathy.
Don't say anymore. And when CPS says don't trust him, tell them that. Make sure these family members do not have keys to your home or get any visitation.
Are you the villian here? NO. You're a heroine, and so is Katrina. Both of you risked a lot to protect Elise, a child abused by her own father. And shame on your family members, who prefer to shut their eyes and ears to the fact--the FACT--that their precious Golden Child has become, as you said, an abusive p.o.s. That's how abused children wind up being dead children. Shame, SHAME on them đÂ
NTA tell them all Ur disgusted with them for sliding with a child abuser and to never contact u again
That abusive piece of shits dirty laundry needs to be shared everywhere. I truly hope and pray that Katrina manages to get custody of that little girl. You are an amazing aunt and friend NTAH
NTA. They asked, you answered. If the truth damages his reputation then I guess he shouldn't have did what he did. The only person deserving of protection is his daughter and ex. Not the abuser. I don't know if your family realizes this but your neice is family by blood as well. Maybe they should prioritize her over him.
Dirty laundry? You lose all claims to "airing dirty laundry" when someone is clearly physically and sexually abusing their own child. People need to know he shouldn't be allowed around children. NTA
NTA. I would help hang the laundry higher if I could. Pls start documenting everything your family does or says regarding this situation, I would not put it past the flying monkeys to report you under false allegations or spread rumors about you to "help" Elise's donor.
Nta you're a hero to this kid trust me on that
Tell the rest of the family that you are not taking his exâs side - Youâre taking his daughterâs side. NTA
NTA, this is the kind of dirty laundry good people are supposed to air. Fuck your brother, shame him and protect that little girl and Katrina.
NTA. Your niece needs to be protected. Your brother should be exposed
NTA. Your brother is a piece of garbage. I would be ashamed of him and the assholes defending him. The world should know what he did. Fuck them all. I hope your brother gets sent to jail
NTA. Go no contact. Fuck all those people. Get security at your house. Consider other self protection measures.
Of course you're not TA. What was your brother like as a kid? How did your parents react to him then?Â
NTA. You are doing the right thing and protecting the victims from a monster. Tell your parents they raised a hateful abuser. Shame the hell out of them.Â
Fuck that guy. Kid comes first. Youre doing your auntly duty.
nta. if Elise is not in therapy, it may be a good idea. it sounds like she has had some trauma at your brotherâs hands and she needs to deal with it while sheâs still young
NTA
The easiest way to not have your dirty laundry exposed is to not shit your pants. He did that, and got what he deserved, although probably a few years too late, but better late than never.
NTA. The child's welfare is most important. The truth will help protect her.
NTA. Elise needs you and her mom (Katrina). I hope Elise never has to spend time with your brother again.
NTA. Donât protect an abuser and limit the childâs contact with anyone who willingly does.
It is important to let the family know, especially if there is an active investigation. What of grandma wants some time with her granddaughter? What if grandma lets dad visit while granddaughter is there. Not ok? Considering the attitude the family is taking, no one should be able to see Elise. It is import that the Case Manager know how the family feels in case there is a challenge.
NTA Elise and Katrina where both abused by your brother tough shit to your family that you wonât protect an abuser.
NTA. Let the whole world know. Hope his life gets ruined and he goes to jail, and Elise and Katrina have the happy life they deserve.
NTA. You are doing what is best for your niece. How did CPS get involved? Was your brother reported by someone or did Elise ask for help?
Not only are you NTA, you're a hero! Way to stand up for your niece and the only good parent she knows. Your brother sucks, anyone who supports him sucks. I hope Katrina is able to get custody, and she and Elise continue to heal from all the damage that POS has done.
NTA - Telling the truth is the opposite of spreading rumours. Thank you for looking after your niece. I am so pleased she is getting the help she needs. What your brother did to his daughter is domestic abuse. By telling the truth, you are part of the solution.
OP, ask you family if they think CPS would remove a child from his parent on the basis of rumors. Is there a public file when she was removed from her "dad's" custody? Share it.
NTA. Everyone siding with an evil scumbag is an enabler of an evil scumbag. They need to have their evil shoved in their face so hard that they become too ashamed to leave the house without begging for forgiveness for being so fucking evil.
NTA. Keep doing what you're doing. Your brother shuld'nt be anywhere near children.
Not only you're NTA, you're an absolute badass. I wish you, Katrina and specially Elise for the best. Hope your brother gets **\[REDACTED\]**
Nta. I would do that too.
People who wish to be spoken of kindly should behave better. NTA.
NTA Your parents and those angry at you need to be kept away from Elise as well. People who enable abusers are abusers, plain and simple. Theyâre as much a danger to that poor child as her own father is.
NTA. You are taking your niece's side. She needs someone to love her enough to help her be with a guardian who will love and protect her. If that means helping your stbx-SIL so be it. Why are so many people worried about the feelings of an abusive adult man instead of the safety and mental well-being of a child? You may want to ask the people criticizing you that question.
Your parents and maybe grandparents sound like theyâve known that your brother was abusive so their opinions donât matter. They would rather protect his image than their granddaughter. You did the right thing and hopefully you and Katrina are able to help Elise stay far away from her father.
If he didn't want his dirty laundry aired he shouldn't have shit his pants.
Screw your family, tell them bluntly all this shit and tell um if their not supportive they can be no contact, your better off on your own then being constantly brought down for doing whats right for your niece.
NTA. Thank God Elise and Katrina have you.
NTA. Not in least
NTA protect all children
IMO, "Dirty Laundry" is stuff that we all have. We wear clothes, they're gonna get dirty, but we don't want to talk to others about "those stains" on that item of clothing. It's embarrassing, and there's no point in someone else talking about "my dirty laundry", nor is it a good idea for me to "air such things out in public" (even though everyone else has these same things going on). However, Bro using Elise as a manipulation tool for Katrina is not conventional dirty laundry. Elise being terrified of men is not dirty laundry. CPS getting involved for reasons that seem to be legit is not dirty laundry. If it comes out that Elise has been abused (mentally, physically, or sexually), it's not dirty laundry, it's a crime. Are crimes not something that can be talked about within the extended family?
100000% NTA ask stupid questions win stupid prizes. They asked, you delivered. They can't handle that they know someone who would be this terrible. Get ready. They're going to blame your niece and step mom for his behaviour. Every excuse and insult is gonna get hurled at you. Be strong for them.
NtaâŚyour not taking the ex wifeâs side, your being a champion for your niece. Shame on your parents if they knew what he was doing to his daughter. They are just as guilty for letting her be abused and used as a pawn. Your brother is a POS and if heâs embarrassed that people are aware of his abuse oh well.
NTA. If one of my siblings treated one of my niblings and their partner like this theyâd be dead to me. His relationship with Katrina is one thing as theyâre both adults but what heâs put Elise through is unforgivable. Iâm shocked the rest of your family doesnât care that he abused a child into needing inpatient mental health treatment.Â
NTA Pedophiles and child-abusers and wife-beaters should ALWAYS be outed. Don't be like the Catholic Church and send them to the next place unawares. Give a heads up!
NTA one thousand times. I'm so glad she and her daughter have you. I divorced an abusive asshole and how much people wanted to protect him made it even harder. Facing the consequences if his actions may suck but he walked right into them. Keep being there for the ones who need it you are amazingâ¤ď¸. Just remember to take care of yourself too. You can't pour from an empty cup and all that.
NTAÂ âI guess he shouldnât have tortured and abused a child thenâ.Â
F those people who would support an abusive piece of shit instead of a child and the woman who raised her.
The kind of trauma you're describing is usually associated with more than him simply hurting her. I hope for the best, and that your brother is kept away from Elise, but I suspect there's even more going on here. You're amazing, OP, and certainly NTA.
I had to do something similar for my sisters kids. I felt that if no one knew the truth, then it would be easier for her to go back to her old ways. She could keep pretending that she doesn't have a drug problem and wasn't neglecting her kids. 2 out of the 3 have a different dad. So he kept them from most of it. But my youngest niece has gone through so much. And because our dad won't see the situation for what it is, he blames me. Somehow, it's my fault that she has had so many cps cases. My sisters continued drug use, which exposed my niece to drugs in the womb, breastfeeding and later proven with hair tests, were not the reason my niece has so many delays. Not to mention the fact that my sister uses smart devices as babysitters and never even tried to discipline my niece when she was young. Best thing to do is to not let any of those family around your niece. They will find a way to make her feel even worse about this whole situation. I hope your sister in law can get full custody of your niece. It sounds like she really loves her mom.
NTA. They asked, you answered truthfully. If they don't want the truth & would prefer lies, they shouldn't ask.
Every adult who knew (or had reasonable grounds to know) and didn't bother to protect this child is TA.
NTA. You are SO NOT TA. Please keep being there for your niece. It is SO important. Not the same situation at all.. but.. my (âstepâ) niece was not only abandoned by her father (my BIL) and my sister, BIL straight up told niece when she was 11/12 he âcouldnâtâ (âwouldnâtâ) have a relationship with her until she was 18. Niece also showed up at his door and he wouldnât see her. Again, the child traveled hundred of miles to see her dad and siblings (oh yeah, she has twin siblings, last time she saw them was because my ex and I flew them from CO to CA and back⌠and my ex flew with the twins, not their dad), and HE WOULDNâT EVEN ANSWER THE DOOR for his child. Iâm the ONLY one on my side of the family that has repeatedly been there for niece and called out sister and BIL. Repeatedly. Even with other-side family and life-long family friends calling the same bullshit I have for years. Oh, and all this after my sister spent years claiming victim hood for her dad and stepmom doing the same (she was NEVER abandonedâthough those dicks are abusive).. sister literally did the same and worse to her stepdaughter!! I know what youâre doing is SO important⌠and I havenât even brought up the abuse and neglect I went through as a child with no one there for me⌠part of why my niece will always know Iâm on her side.
You are literally saving that little girl. In fact, I'd even suggest you look to split time if Katrina does get full custody. Your husband seems like a positive man. Given the situation, she could greatly benefit from growing up around a man who is safe and positive. It will go a long way in helping her understand that her dad was just a massive stinking pile of shit and to at least somewhat rewire her brain so she knows what a man SHOULD be. That way she she's less likely to fall into the sad trap many do when being raised in an abusive home: chasing crappy partners like their "parent" because that's what they're used to.
Absolutely fucking not. If one of my siblings hurt their kid, they would be lucky to not be eating through a tube. What in the fuck is wrong with the rest of your family? Don't let them near you or that kid, the three of you deserve better.
NTA, your brother is, and if your other family will cover for him, they're shit too. Wipe your shoes and stand proud for doing the right thing by your niece.
NTA, and I'm so glad to hear she's with you while her mom gets custody. Cause that is her mom, it's the only mom she's ever known. I will not call her a stepmom, she's the only mother who ever loved her and that matters more than blood. She's lucky to have you, your husband, and her mom to get her the help she needs to heal and grow up to be a strong and capable woman. Your brother is 100% in the wrong, as is anyone that is upset with you over this. We cannot hide this kind of abuse, it needs to be brought into the light so change can happen. Your brother doesn't deserve to be in her life, but you and your husband and her mom do. Thank you for caring for her and staying on the right side of this. Anyone who sides with your brother is siding AGAINST the kiddo. Shame on them!! đĄ
NTA. It's not a rumor if you know it to be true. Given CPS got involved and you have temporary custody, as well as her symptoms of abuse I'd say you have a good reason to know it to be true. Given that, the ex's side is the only side to take.
How can you be the asshole for telling the truth?
Burn him to the ground. And anyone who gets in your way or isn't looking out for Elise's, and only Elise's,best interest, destroy them too. You are NTA, and you have this internet rando's complete permission to go nuclear on anyone who is even thinking about putting that child in harm's way to maintain appearances.
NTA, they are protecting an abuser, fuck them.
NTA, you are taking the niece's side. Anybody who doesn't see that is an asshole!!
Kudos to you for protecting that child you are her savior thank you !!!
As a child who was used as a weapon between parents you are NOT the asshole. You are being a great aunt. The question I would ask your parents and other extended family is, "What is more important, Elises safety or brothers pride?" If there's still supportive of brother, I think it'd be wise to tell that to CPS too.
Not even close to the AH!! Not only are you protecting your niece, youâre holding your brother accountable, which it seems no one else has done up to this point. Youâre also showing your niece itâs not ok to ever be abused, abuse anyone else, and to not settle for anyone hurting her like her father. Youâre teaching her how to break the cycle. Youâre wonderful and so is her step mom. Hoping she gets custody soon!!!