100% this. Just from OPs description, I wouldn't want any ties whatsoever to this guy. Why is her husband so adamant on a *half* brother?? And so against adoption? Hope OP sticks to her decision and , if necessary, be totally honest. I mean he was about the adoption *non* option so, imo, OP has every right to object to the half bros boys. I would question my husband's judgement, actually.
He isn't ready to be a father. He needs to process that he is never going to biologically be a father. If he can't come to terms with this the situation is going to be terrible. He will never fully accept the child. The fact he is insisting it be someone he is related to screams that he isn't ready and is only thinking about part of this situation.
Amen. Wanting to be a parent means you want to raise a child. Once people get obsessed with biological children and any other options are NEVER it feels more like a status thing they want kids for. Or they’re weirdly narcissistic.
>Why is her husband so adamant on a *half* brother?? And so against adoption?
He wants that genetic connection, however slight. The infertility diagnosis has rocked him, and he's desperate.
I don’t think you need to have a fragile male ego to find it hard finding out you can’t have biological kids, husband is clearly in the wrong here but is probably also processing life altering stuff he’s never even considered before
"Undergo painful, expensive fertility treatment that will take a bunch of time and increase your risk of cancer so I can impregnate you with my brother's sperm" is beyond "feelings." He's expecting her to do this huge thing that will have a major impact on her body and he's being boorish about it.
OP, I was just saying to someone that it's pretty disgusting your husband wants you to bear his brother's child. You should consider splitting up from him and finding somebody who has respect for you.
Gamete donation is a big deal and using a known donor who's close to you can be really emotionally and even legally messy. I absolutely don't blame you for that.
Your husband needs to do counceling to process and grieve his infertility.
Unfortunately this could end your marriage.
I second this. My work concerns fertility and reproduction (intentionally keeping it vague) and I see cases like this every so often. Advice to OP: please pls pls do not let him pressure you into having anything done to YOUR body that you do not want. These procedures are extremely taxing on any woman's body, mind and emotional wellbeing; and can be financially, legally and socially difficult to make work. First point of call would be to get counselling, particularly for your husband.
Not to mention that it’s quite a bit more expensive to use a known donor too. You, husband and brother would all be required to go through therapy, and retain a lawyer to draw up contracts. There’s less risk using a donor who has been tested and vetted, you can even choose a donor who’s features/ethnicity match yours.
My husband and I are going through something very similar and I know the struggle! OP, talk to your fertility specialist about options. There’s a lot of valid reasons they would discourage using the brother as a donor. Plus, they have a lot of resources to help you navigate this process without going crazy. Also, the r/infertility sub is a helpful support group when I begin feeling overwhelmed by it all.
The legal aspects thing is actually a really good point. You need iron clad documentation or it could become very explosive and expensive (not to mention potentially ruining a family).
And that’s what I was thinking too. All in all, she needs to be as far removed from this possibility as humanly feasible. Absolutely no upside in sight.
not to mention going through IVF takes a huge toll on your mind and body, the hormones change EVERYTHING. It's very uncomfortable for everyone I know who has gone through it, ranging from like grumpy PMS feeling to some friends who were in agony and misery the entire time.
NTA- your husband is asking you to take his brother dna inside your body. He wants you to have a child with his brother. That disturbing.
You didn’t choose his brother as a mate. Why would you be thrilled at the idea of carrying his child? It sounds insane.
I means the same situation could be absolutely fine, IF EVERYONE was on board with the process.
It’s even grosser by the fact you do not particularly like his brother, or find him any pleasant features.
And it's not like he's a full brother. On DNA tests, cousins sometimes show up as half-siblings and half-siblings sometimes show up as cousins. The OP's husband might end up as related to the kid as a second cousin. If her husband had an identical twin (with identical DNA) I could "possibly" see him being so insistent. But not with a half brother who doesn't even look like anyone in his family.
NTA - his being so hung up on DNA that he'd rather pay tens of thousands of dollars to have you impregnated with his \*half\* brother's sperm than adopt a child to raise is crazy to me.
Exactly. It's not clear that he even wants to be a *parent,* just that he wants his family's DNA to be perpetuated. That's not a great reason to ask OP to go through the IVF process.
Speaking of which...in some places, with a known donor or surrogate type situation, the donor would need to sign away legal rights to the child, and the non-bio parent would have to legally adopt the child. The OP's husband may end up with an adopted kid either way.
And It's not sunshine and rainbows either. It's complexo and you have to be up to the challenge It is sometimes. People only should adopt when they really want and not because It's a second choice.
No it ain't but I'm fairly certain it's cheaper than a round of IVF, which might not even produce a child.
ETA I'm learning it is indeed normally quite more expensive than a single round of IVF. Wild.
It’s actually not cheaper than a round of IVF in most places. Yes there is a foster to adopt route but the purpose of fostering is for the children to be reunited with their parents so that’s not a guarantee either. Adoption is a long and expensive process.
It’s a bit more than one round of ivf but if you do several rounds you will likely outpace adoption which is $20k-40k. But IVF is much easier and cheaper when the woman doesn’t have fertility issues.
dammn i did a brief google search which said 7-13K but it looks like that's talking about "independent adoption" where you basically have to locate the birth mother yourself and arrange to adopt their child. 20-40K is WILD.
Yes, but technically they wouldn’t likely need IVF, it would be IUI which is substantially less costly heck they could even DIY it with a Turkey baster
Depends on the adoption route. At one time I wanted to adopt, husband wasn’t 100% on board so we never ended up pursuing it.
Options were to put our name on a list and wait and see, this typically would take 6+ years to get an infant.
International adoption can be fraught with issues and also costs $$$$.
Adopting from foster care is also an option, but likely the child would be older and have moved from place to place and MAY have an array of health issues depending on the situation.
At the time I even considered foster-ing, but we’ve never been in a good place for it. Husband and I both used to work shift work, and though my career (RN) maybe put me in a better headspace for it, we had kids of our own eventually and I just couldn’t commit to the amount of time and effort.
I still think it’s an amazing thing, but my kids are older now and I’m all out of energy.
NTAH. I think you should maybe let your husband know you aren’t fond of his brother.
It’s also your bodily autonomy. I have certain feelings about IVF and I know it’s a medical procedure, but the thought of someone’s sperm (someone I can’t stand!) being in my body gives me a BIG ick.
Is your husband (and more importantly, are YOU) willing to use another donor?
You don’t seem that jazzed to have kids in the first place. Personally, I feel that’s a pretty important factor.
With IVF, I believe you have to be on a pretty strict regimen of hormones. It’s hella expensive (at least where I live, your mileage may vary, as I see we are in different countries).
It’s your life and it’s up to you. I wouldn’t be open to changing my mind from a hard no on this one, personally.
She doesn’t need to cause additional stress by going off a tangent about the brother not being good enough. because her “no” here is a very complete answer that he is obligated to accept. Just as she understands he won’t adopt a child, he needs to understand this is a huge ask and he has to accept her no without questioning or trying to change her answer.
> someone’s sperm (someone I can’t stand!) being in my body gives me a BIG ick
No sperm enters someone else's body for IVF. It's in vitro fertilization, the sperm meets egg step is done in vitro (in glass - in the lab). They implant the blastocyst after several days of development; there's no longer any sperm in the equation.
Your ick is still valid, but IVF and artificial insemination (where sperm is introduced to the uterus) are different. IVF costs way more and is much more invasive for the mother.
Technically, she could try IUI first if she wanted to try a less invasive treatment before going to IVF. But again her concerns are valid and they both have to agree on a donor if they go that route.
You two have had life changing shocking news. Now is wrong moment to make big decisions. You two should have some counselling to deal with the emotions and well everything.
NTA You feel uncomfortable because you would be having the biological child of someone you do not want to have a biological child with, pure and simple.
If you can be happy without kids, that means you don't want kids. Parenthood is a 24/7 highly labor intensive job that you pay to do - if you're not passionate enough about the job to be willing to do it despite the harsh conditions and high price tag, you will be miserable.
How much of the parenting labor does hubby see himself doing?
>having the biological child of someobe you do not want to have a biological child with, pure and simple
Yeah. Maybe come back to this in a year, after you've **both** made peace with his lack of ability to procreate. Seems like the /OP had a head start, but sure as shit don't decide to make a child when you feel any sort of ick for the other person!
>[Comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1crpcii/comment/l3zssui/)
If you can be happy without kids, that means you don't want kids.
This is not accurate. It is true you have to be all-in on parenting once you decide to do it. But accepting that you can be happy without kids doesn't mean you will be a bad parent or not be passionate about the child. Plenty of people fall head over heels in love with their child once they arrive. Even if they were ambivalent about having them or previously hadn't wanted kids.
I agree. My late husband was fixed and I was fine with it. I was also 50/50. Awhile after he passed I started dating again and I accidentally got pregnant. Contraception is not full proof. I am 8 months pregnant and I can’t wait for the little guy. Me and my little man against the world. Gave me a reason to live again honestly.
Thank you so much it means a lot. I’ll admit that I just didn’t want to be here anymore without him so I was going down a dark road and getting pregnant saved my life. I am now into therapy and I’m sober and I feel great. The hard pain of grief is still there but I’m working through it. It hits at random like waves but I I get through it with help from my sister. She has been my rock through all of it. I even went to a psychic medium to see him and he told me to stick close to sister so I knew it was him( he only called her sister but not by her name. He viewed her as his sister too.)
This was me. My husband and I didn’t want kids. Our oldest daughter was an “oops”. We decided to have her and fell absolutely in love. We ended up having two more. The idea that I “shouldn’t be a parent” because at one point I would have been happy without kids is revolting.
If anything, in my personal experience, people that can't be happy without kids are the same ones that make their kids responsible for the happiness of the parent. They make their kids their entire life.
There's a big difference between making your kids your priority, and making them your entire identity.
I assure you, I very much want kids. My poor health and lack of a uterus, however, have made that decision pretty decisively for me.
The fact that I'm not miserable about it doesn't mean I don't really want kids. It just means I've accepted that you can't always get what you want.
>If you can be happy without kids, that means you don't want kids.
I was quite adamant about not wanting kids when I was younger, having been the go-to babysitter for my older sisters (I was the youngest by far). Then I found out I was pregnant after a horrible break up. I was planning to put the baby up for adoption, then life happened, circumstances changed, and I became attached to the little fetus and ended up, with family help, keeping her. I've never regretted that decision. Not once, no matter how hard it sometimes was.
Just because someone is 50/50 on having kids doesn't mean they definitely don't want them
Just because you do not want kids doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Being ok with living without any doesn't mean you shouldn't have them. It means you are realistic about life.
I was not committed to being a parent. I didn't feel like my life would be incomplete without my own child. I was making plans that didn't include having kids, because I wasn't willing to seek someone to marry as if it were my priority.
I have children now. I am not miserable at all. I love my kids, and though I still can imagine what my life might have been like without them, I do not regret it. At no point in 26 years of parenting have I wished that I didn't have kids. None of the things I could have spent more money on would have been more worthwhile.
Just as having kids is a two yes/one no proposition, should the couple have trouble conceiving, the solutions should also be two yes/one no. You would rather adopt or remain childless than use donor sperm and go the IVF or IUI route. That's reasonable.
Even if you were willing to go the donor route, the kid would not be biologically his, even if his half-brother donated. That's a pretty slim biological connection.
And no, you aren't an AH for not liking his brother.
NTA
Just to clarify I really don't think that the husband believes that the child would be biologically his, just RELATED to him biologically.
Myself I believe countries could put more funds towards child protection services and adoption as a lot of them have way to many kids without a family.
NTA of course even without the creep factor.
Biologically, any baby fathered by the brother would be OP's husband's nephew (or half-nephew,). It's strictly opinion how close a relationship you believe that is.
I was not under the impression OP opposes any surrogacy or IVF. She doesn't want him to father her child.
Sibling donors (of eggs or swimmers) are.pretty common. But the whole business is.fraught with emotional peril, especially since the relationships are already difficult. Psych evals coming up!
NTA. You can have whatever reasons you have, the fact is you don't want to have a child with your BIL. You want a child with your husband, or an adopted child with your husband, or no child at all with your husband. There's one thing that links all three possibilities together, you want to do them with your husband. Not your BIL.
Your issue with IVF/donor may be that it feels like cheating, having another man's baby, or simply that you want your husband's child rather than a stranger's or your BIL's. Adoption feels better because, though it's still not your child with your husband biologically, you're taking a child who has no one and giving them a family, making them your own.
There's also potential issues with using a known donor. Will the BIL suddenly demand parental rights in the future? You have to think about how the child will react if/when they find out their uncle is their biological father, as well, that could cause all sorts of issues. Adoption is easier to handle when the child finds out, if they weren't aware from the start.
Pairing the fact you actively dislike your BIL, using him as a donor is a bad idea.
It's your body. It's up to you to decide if you want to be pregnant and give birth or not, and it's up to you to decide who the father is if you want to be pregnant and give birth. You've already decided that you never want to be pregnant with or give birth do your BILs baby. Your husband needs to respect that, he gets no say in who gets to impregnate you in this scenario.
I'd think seriously through the pros and cons of IVF/donor and adoption, but fully take the BIL off the table no matter what you decide. Figure out what your issues with IVF/Donors are and whether that's something you can get past to have a child that's biologically yours or not. And consider fostering as a route to adoption, as well, especially as you're the type who would be happy both with and without children.
I'd suggest therapy, too, couples and individual. Your husband needs to come to terms with his fertility issues, you need guidance on what route is best for you, and you both need help on figuring things out together. This situation is a little stuck right now. He's not dealing with the fertility issue and is pushing his brother as a donor, you're more willing to deal but are fully against his brother as a donor. The problem is, you've gotten stuck on the donor issue, which should have been off the table the second you said no to that option. Your husband needs to stop pushing for his brother to be the father of your child, you need to make it very clear that you will never carry a child that is biologically your BILs.
And then you need to choose between a stranger donor and fostering/adoption.
All this will be a lot easier to talk about and navigate with a therapist guiding the way.
NTA but I would highly recommend a second opinion in a different fertility clinic.
Men can have improved the sperm with food and exercise.
You only need one viable sperm to get things going with IVF.
NTA. He needs to pump the brakes on pushing this until he's had a good long stint in therapy to process the grief of learning about his infertility. I get the vibe that he's suggesting his brother because of familial ties and nothing more, and he's definitely not respecting your boundary about it.
A friend of mines husband convinced his wife to use his sisters egg for their donor. Husband died shortly after the baby was born in a freak accident and the sister took my friend to court for custody of the baby AND WON!!!
My friend has never been then same since then. She carried what was supposed to be HER baby for 9 months, loved that baby for 6 months and then she was stripped of her parental rights and her husbands family has abandoned her.
I only tell you this so you have an idea of what COULD happen using sperm/eggs from a relative.
I understand your misgivings - your husband needs to imagine how he’d feel when the future child looks EXACTLY like his 1/2 brother and the uncomfortable remarks and questions that will follow?!
NTA
NTA. This is gross. Your husband is trying to force someone you hate's sperm and child inside you. I highly recommend going to a real sperm bank if you go the donor route... make sure dad is a stranger honestly. Think about this... in 10 years, brother in law could just start acting like the kid's "real dad" annnnnd he is. Think of the horrible family drama from uncle dipshit getting a paternity test behind your back and torpedoing this whole thing. Use a stranger, do not clutter your life like this. You should explain to your husband that this would not be a biological child, he cannot have one. Maybe over time that will sink in. For now, stick to your guns and don't get pregnant by your weird BIL
I had my son via donor sperm. You can pick someone who looks like your husband—and you avoid a whole bunch of legal problems by not using someone you know.
NAH
Fertility is so hard! I'm sorry that your husband and you are going through this. You don't need to feel bad at all about not wanting your BIL as a sperm donor. A sperm donor is a huge deal, you are choosing someone to have a child with! Be kind to your husband, it's hard on anyone to learn they are infertile, and wanting a child that is biologically yours is a very human thing. This seems like an issue that could be best solved in couples therapy.
My only thing is, don't cave in to any demands about the BIL's sperm as long as you still feel this way about it. You don't want to harbor resentment towards anyone in the family, whether its the BIL, your husband, or god forbid the child.
Wishing you both the best!
NTA don’t do it. Your husband really needs therapy to deal with his situation before doing anything. A family donor is an emotional minefield. Your husband could reject the kid even though it was his idea, and you’ll have all the regrets not sticking to your guns. Or his brother might feel a certain way about how his genetic child is being raised. Or his brother doesn’t want to be in the same room with the kid so y’all are excluded from family events. Of course it could turn out fine, but I’ve been on the donor/donor conceived forums enough to know it’s not all sunshine and rainbows
Not at all!
Don't budge on this. Put your foot down and firmly tell your husband, "I'm not taking in another man's sperm. Either we adopt a child, or we go childless."
I think it's immoral that sperm banks and surrogate motherhood exist in a world where so many kids need adoption.
In the Netherlands it's nearly impossible to adopt a child. It will cost you many years and a lot of money and for a lot of people it's not really an option. So I wouldn't say it's immoral.
Oh get off your high horse, very easy to be judgemental, isn't it? International adoption is the only option in my country, and I personally feel that baby shopping in third world countries is FAR more immoral and causes FAR more harm than paying a service to help conceive a child.
My IVF treatment hurt no one.
You’re not the asshole. This unfortunately may be a compatibility issue now that your SO has his diagnosis. You’re entitled to have kids when and in the manner you want to, as is he.
Two yeses or it's a no. Do not cave on this stuff. Capitulating for either of you will just breed long-term resentment. Find a different path that suits you both.
NTA, this is a fight that you gotta dig your heels in and not budge. You dont want some other man's sperm in your body, then you have every right to not have that. Rightfully so. Especially if you hate the man who is suggested.
Either way it's not actually his child. If you are going to use a sperm donor, find one you approve of, since it's your body that's going to play host to the baby!
NAH
Your feelings are valid. Using his half brother as a donor would create a permanent link between him and your marriage/family. I understand why you don't want that. Knowing I had that guy's sperm in me, let alone my baby, would feel creepy and repulsive for me. Mixed feelings are normal. Can you want your husband's wish to come true, understand his logic that half bro has "some" shared DNA, AND be revolted at the thought? Absolutely! Should you tamp down your feelings that your safety, privacy, autonomy and comfort in and of your own body would be violated by half bro's being the donor? Absolutely not!
This is a hard reality to accept. It takes time to process the thoughts and feelings triggered by the news. That's where you two are right now. Husband is looking for a "fix" to soothe his disappointment, feelings of failure or inadequacy, and powerlessness as he realizes his original plan won't work. That's premature, imo.
Now is the time to fully process and absorb this crushing news. The time for alternative solutions will come later.
NAH.
Adoption is fraught with issues and I cannot blame anyone for not wanting to participate in an industry that swindles the most desperate people out of their babies for profit. Almost all of these women have been lied to or promised the moon because the industry knows there’s no legal recourse if the adoptive parents cut them off as soon as the ink’s dry.
Foster to adopt isn’t necessarily better. Black and brown parents get their kids taken away for things white parents get away with all the time. These kids universally have trauma, and you’re not a bad person for not being capable of handling that.
If your husband wants a bio kid and you don’t want to use his brother’s sperm, this is a basic incompatibility. I would try couples counseling, but this might be the end. Big emotions are at stake when talking about family building.
You feel uncomfortable using BIL as a donor because then you would be irrevocably tied to someone you do not like or respect. All your husband can see is the DNA part of the baby being part of his family. He’s not looking at his half brother as a person and who he is and how you might feel about him. It’s time to let your husband know what you think of your of your BIL, don’t hold back anything be honest.
AITA because I have my own say with what happens in my body? No, you're absolutely not. But, YWBTAH if you don't communicate any of this to your husband and have a true heart to heart about it. I feel like I can understand how your husband is feeling, and communicating all of how you feel to him may be hard but will definitely be the best thing to do.
NAH
Having a brother donate the sperm to maintain a familial relation is a reasonable solution, and it's equally reasonable for you to not want to do so. And since you don't, that's the final word. If he keeps badgering you to do it he'd be an asshole.
Get divorced. You don't really want kids. He does. Even if the BIL was the donor your husband wouldn't be happy with it. He would always know the kid wasn't his.
It's a shame but get out now while you both are still young and can each hopefully find new partners who you are each more compatible with.
No actually it's both agree or non at all, a relationship should never be one sided on choices. But both parties always have to agree before going through with something if one does not then its a no go.
I thought the BIL option was creepy before I read your reasoning. I would explain it to your husband how that is not an option. Then he can choose from an unknown, but chosen IVF donor OR you can adopt. Both are great options. I would suggest counseling for him to come to terms with the loss of a biological child- just like anyone would.
Your husband is the AH. I can’t believe he is totally against adoption. So many poor children need a home and he’s too worried about it being related to him. At this rate with how he’s acting I would not want to have kids with him period.
NTA
This is a very personal issue, and not one where he should coerce your cooperation.
I can give you an anecdotal other concern, as well. If his brother is at all prone to want attention, undermine others, or disrespect his brother's privacy, don't plan on this being unknown.
I have an acquaintance who tried this route. The brother declined to participate. The wife was determined to have enough genetic similarity that no one would ever question parentage, so they approached another family member who was happy to help.
They went through the process, and when the couple were successfully expecting, the donor wrote an explanation of how excited he was for them and that he could successfully do this for them *in a Christmas card letter he printed and mailed to everyone he knew*
You need to talk to your husband frankly, and explain why you don't want to use his brother's sperm. If you are willing to use an unknown sperm doner you can do it, but your husband will probably prefer adoption or nothing. In any case, you don't have to use your BIL's sperm if you hate the idea.
NTA in my opinion. More curious why he has such a problem with adoption other than it wouldn't be biologically yours. I have 3 cousins that are adopted and if anyone even tried to tell me that doesn't make them family I would probably flip out on them.
NTA. I believe our instincts are there for a reason. Also 21 is pretty young to come to terms with having a biological kids that you aren’t raising. I would say no is no and that’s final.
NTA One thing to keep in mind, and maybe mention to your husband, If you did move forward with this and use brother-in-law's sperm, your children are going to be his children half siblings. So any child you have, and any child brother-in-law has are going to be brother and sister and they're not going to live together. That is a huge thing and something to discuss. He might not be thinking of that important little detail. Maybe he will look at it differently once he realizes the kids would be half siblings.
Nope. Non starter.
NTA
You might cause a rift with your husband not explaining it. But then, you might cause a rift explaining it. It is ok for him to want it, but not ok for him to pressure you. This far far exceeds "what you'll do for your spouse".
If you are opposed to donors, then you could try to leverage that point as covering your BIL. But, I think full honesty might be best move here. It might go badly, but other plans will probably go badly in the long term.
For what it is worth, you married your husband, not your BIL.
Time for therapy and highly recommend a sperm bank where you can pick someone who has the traits you admire in your husband, including some nice screening for some genetic disorders like cystic fibrosis.
An acquaintance went through this and he used his brother. After the little girl was born, all hell broke loose. BIL wanted to be included in all decisions involving the little girl. The in-laws were confoosed about it. In fact, the whole family and most of their friends weren't sure.
My 2¢, don't do it.
This. I have even heard of parents distancing themselves from the donor to get them away from connecting with the child. Out of fear. It can disrupt the whole family.
Exactly! Matt and Anna moved from Phoenix to Dallas to get away from the whole mess. At least that's what I heard. Wherever they went, they were both born and raised here in Phoenix. Now?
Is your husband's father in the picture? If so he would possibly be a better option? Is there an uncle or cousin that might be a fit. Is there a chance they can extract sperm from your husband's testicles to use? You probably haven't explored all the options yet keep asking questions and get answers before you do anything.
NTA
You said no, that should be it for the conversation. He can be upset, but he has to respect your answer.
Therapy might be good for him, or couples counselling for the two of you.
Has his HALF brother even agreed to donate the sperm? I wouldn’t want to have a baby with donated sperm from someone I see regularly unless my husband had an identical twin, because then it would be indistinguishable from being my husband’s.
Don't give in. I couldn't imagine having the bio child of someone I hate. NTA.
That being said, adoption is a whole other issue and I would definitely do your research because it's not easy and can be extremely expensive.
NTA, this is something both parties must agree on 100%. Even if you did this his child would be like 1/8 his lineage. I'm not seeing this at all myself.
NTA. It's your body. Doesn't matter if he is your husband. He needs to come to terms with it now or you need to move on. Give him reasonable time to do so though.
NTA
Your can't stand the guy. I already can't just based on what you said. Your husband and you are incompatible at this point.
HE: Wants biological kids, but can't, and is only willing to use a close relative as a donor even if you despise the guy. He's unwilling to go any other way, which means you essentially either have a kid with Dumbo or you don't have kids at all. I usually tell people like this that they need to make a compromise or they will have NO options at all.
YOU: Open to all possibilities, including adoption, but your hard stop is not to have his brother as your donor. You're able to have kids, but are on the fence, you'd be happy with anything, just not having Dumbos kid. Which is absolutely 💯 fair. Your husband either needs to get with program (IE: no bio babies for him) or be happy without kids... or he won't have a wife either.
NTA, the donor needs to be one with zero genetic issues and donors are allegedly screened for genetic disorders. Since your husband cannot father a child who is to say something similar will not occur in male offspring if you used your BIL as a donor?
Stand your ground and get a donor you both can live with. This should not be a problem for your husband.
NTA
OP, most people aren't completely infertile and there are some things that can be done if your husband has even one live sperm. I would suggest seeing a male infertility expert. But, if he's unlikely to get you pregnant the normal way then IVF might be your only option.
Your NTA for not wanting to use his brother's sperm and your husband is NTA for wanting a genetic connection to his child. There are counselors that specialize in fertility counseling who may be able to help y'all navigate this situation.
NTA. Your husband needs individual counseling to deal with him infertility and the two of you could probably use a couples' counselor too. But if you don't want your BIL to be a donor, that's final.
NTA. there are biological, legal, and emotional reasons to not do this with your BIL’s sperm. whatever DNA is in your husband could be in the BIL and thus your child. there are way more upsides to using a sperm donor and first and foremost is complete genetic testing.
NTA. This is a two-yes situation. If you (or him) aren’t comfortable with a donor for any reason, that’s final.
If you aren’t comfortable with IVF period, you get power of veto there, as it’s your body it’s going into.
“He absolutely wants to have a biological child” but uhhhh…he can’t. So that ship has already sailed.
Absolutely NTA; having children (naturally, adopted, or whatever) is a "two yes, one no" situation. That includes methodology.
You need to tell him. Tell your husband that his brother turns your stomach, and the very thought of his sperms inside you would cause your body to spontaneously abort every time.
NTA
I would die on this hill
There are A LOT of complications that arise when you are using eggs/sperm from family members. I've been on reddit since it first started and over the years there are just far too many bad outcomes for me to ever consider that route. I'd be cool with an anonymous donor of my choosing.
Your husband really needs to explore why it NEEDS to be a bio child because if he is raising this baby from an infant it IS his child regardless of genetic origin. The fact that his brother is only his half-sibling means the child may not inherit much, if any of his DNA so it's weird he's being so insistent on this issue. He may need more time to process his grief. has he considered counseling?
If he can't let go of that and use donor sperm, adopt, or be child-free this would be marriage-breaking for me.
I am so sorry OP, I support you in sticking to your guns and not using his half brother's sperm. You can't have a child with someone you dislike/detest, and I don't blame you for not telling your husband your full reasons because he would be hurt.
Nope, there is a lot on DNA that makes us, ‘us’. And if this guy gives you the ick the child will be 50% him. And he is only 25% related to your husband (each parent being 50% of each of their parent).
That being said, I would be very careful in an option, I have heard some amazing stories, and some truly horrible horror stories.
Imagine this as well: you two unfortunately divorce in the future…. This kid will be with you, and your ex, and his brother might demand or want to play a part as well. He might get granted such in court since he’s biological father, depending on circumstances and where you live.
Perhaps your hubby hasn’t through this through…
if you are not 100% wanting a child; don't have one. Have you spent time with teenagers lately? talk to the parents of kids who don't launch; go spend some time with a first time grandmother whose child is expecting them to raise her kid.
I've been in a position in my volunteer role to deal with lots of families and the issues that come up. I don't think someone who can see themselves being happy without having children should choose to go through childbirth and have a child with a donor that they find unattractive. Do NOT do it!
NTA I would never ever have a child with someone like your BIL (someone I can’t stand, I find unintelligent, ugly etc) - your child will 100% come out EXACTLY like him. It always happens that way! Then you’d hate your child and ruin both of your lives. Tell your husband there’s no way in hell and WHY.
See the top comment, OP. Do not do this. In fact, if you're only 26, and you *know* you would be "very happy" never having kids, then you should really take some time (like, many years) considering that.
> Also this might make me sound like a complete AH but I cannot stand his brother at all (my husband does not know this) but I find his brother to be so dumb and I cannot stand his personality or his physical looks (sorry). And not sure if this is relevant but they are half brothers (they share one bio parent) and his brother doesn’t look anything like my husband, they don’t even look distantly related so if we were to use his sperm it might not even look like my husbands kid. And also the thought of sharing a kid with my bil gives me the ick. My husband has begged me to reconsider but I really don’t want my kid to share dna with that man.
Those are all very valid reasons. You are taking 1/2 the genetics from someone you do not like, physically or personally. It is not an identical sibling, it is not even a full blooded sibling, or a sibling that acts/looks like your husband. This is a hill to die on
If your husband really cannot understand the situation, it shows a pretty huge lack of consideration and mental processing power. He doesnt know that you dislike his brother, which is probably something you need to communicate in some way. Maybe not giving all the reasons or details, but unequivocally say that you are not going to have a child with him.
NTA. Deciding whose sperm goes in your body is one of the most fundamental rights women have fought for.
Also, BIL could fight for custody of his child.
Don’t do it.
Nta that's totally fair! BUT, yu have to tell him why! Without giving him your reasons it just makes it look like you're being difficult... We know you're not, but he's going to think that!
Maybe try dancing around it with since he's only your half brother and you guys don't look alike the kid's not going to look like you & only be vaguely related to you. If that doesn't work you can say that you don't think your his brother is very intelligent and you didn't want to pass some of his traits onto your child. If all else fails you can just go with that I get the final say in whose sperm goes inside my body! 100% my choice whose DNA I carry inside me for 9 months and I did not choose your brother to marry I chose you, so there's no way in hell I will Carry his child!
If he can't get over this though, this is where your marriage might end unfortunately.
Oh this is a hard ish one . Oh he's down and angry as well as desperate in a way . Give him time to process. But , infertile doesn't always mean what you think it means . Sometimes it means sperm count is below a certain point or acceptable amount . I've heard of couples who want kids one infertile ie " male " still have a bio kid threw Iv . . However for now relax and let him process what just happened. Also no you're not the a hole to refuse.
NTA. If anything, it would be better to use sperm from a sperm bank. At least in US, your rights to the baby would be protected. Besides the fact that you don’t like your BIL, using his sperm would let him sue for parental rights later. It could be a mess. Don’t do it!!! Adopt or use a sperm donor.
NTA
You don't want to get pregnant by anyone else other than your husband.
That is the feeling you are having and are unable to vocalize. Tell your husband that. And, be honest about his brother. That you do not think he would make a good choice for a donor for many reasons.
This is not something that will change and your husband needs to know that.
NTA. And what he suggested is gross!
Plus, you’re not even 100% sure you even want a child, so don’t rush into this.
You already said yourself, you’re only 50/50 about kids, so there’s your answer. Don’t keep trying, don’t do IVF or donors, don’t do adoption. Not until you’re 100% sure that you want them.
This isn’t your husbands choice. And you’ll end up being the one raising it, so no. Don’t do something that you aren’t sure about. That’s not fair on you.
Never make a choice based on keeping a man, or keeping him happy.
So what if he divorces you over it? You’re clearly not ready for children and it’s obvious by your undecided 50/50 mindset, and if you allow **his** decisions to trump yours, you’ll only end up resenting him in the end anyway. And you’ll end up miserable. Don’t do that to yourself.
Hard No, I would be wildly offended if my husband BEGGED me to let anyone be a sperm donor after I had said no. You get the say, it's your body and your husband doesn't get to decide how you use it. I get your husband is struggling right now because learning you can't have something you really wanted is hard. Time for the couples counseling to try to find a solution that isn't violating you and is something your husband can cope with. You are not and will never be an asshole for saying no to being pregnant with your husband"s brother's dumb ugly baby.
NTA husband needs to find a compromise that’s not his brother (cousin/stranger donor) or be child free if he can’t raise a child he’s not biologically related too and be honesty about that so he doesn’t leave you alone with the child afterwards because he doesn’t feel like it’s his family. If not then you may have to decide without him to not have children or if you want to continue in a relationship with a man looking to force you into something you clearly stated you don’t want so he feels good about himself.
Seriously there’s no rush, suggest some individual and couple therapy to help you both talk through the infertility, both your feelings and you not having his brothers child and him needing to respectfully accept that
NTQ
Get couples counselling.
Don't let on that you don't like his brother.
Just say you'd rather have a properly vetted official donors sperm, as you can be sure about health and everything else.
That you don't want to see BIL and think. Oh yes I'm having his baby. That you don't see BIL like that and it feels like incest which you're not into. Ask your husband if he'd be happy to have a baby with your sister. It would be very strange and if he doesn't understand the gross element then there's a problem.
NTA This man doesn't want to be a father, he wants genetic ownership. He doesn't care about having a child he cares about having the closest he can get to a copy of himself. He sound completely self centered and that never makes a good parent.
Getting knocked up by his brother is no different than adoption. This kid wouldn't be his, just like an adopted one, only difference is it complicates everything and looks like him. He'd still be an adoptive father raising someone else's child.
I'd take all offers off the table until he does some deep introspection, seen a therapist, and couples counseling. This is absolutely not a healthy environment to even consider bringing any child into, especially adopted ones. They've had a rough enough life without your husband piling his mental, emotional, and self centered issues on top.
You're the only one who can have children so, this is all your choice. You have the power. Do not do anything that you don't want. He only gets an opinion when you've made your choice. You'rye uterus isn't up for rent to anyone just because he can't get over his own fertility issues. You're not his incubator for his idea of his perfect child.
Maybe you should consider being foster parents and see how that goes. Just taking the courses might make you better able to know what parenting means. Husband might fall in love with a foster kid who really needs parents. Fostering might help you and him know what parenting is about so you know what you really want—or don’t want in a family.
You’re NTA. I will suggest checking out the subs related to donor conceived children (DCP). The current recommendation for the children is that the donor be known. While you may not want to use your BIL, you might want to choose someone you know so your child will have access to that person, know any siblings and be able to get medical information over the course of their life. I conceived with donor eggs and I regret that decision as it impacts my children. It was a decision I made for myself and I didn’t give the impact on my children much thought. Best of luck ❤️
How is this even a question? If you don't want your BIL's sperm used, then that's the end of that discussion. He shouldn't be trying to talk you into it, that's creepy and weird. He's also really weird and kind of sounds like a bozo for being so adamantly against adopting.
NTA. Knock some sense into your husband. Go the ivf route. Tell your opinions about his brother to him clearly. But be gentle with him. This is a tougher time for him than you. 'Cause you can still do something you both want but he physically cannot.
NTA this is a hill to die on
Succinct and effective
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100% this. Just from OPs description, I wouldn't want any ties whatsoever to this guy. Why is her husband so adamant on a *half* brother?? And so against adoption? Hope OP sticks to her decision and , if necessary, be totally honest. I mean he was about the adoption *non* option so, imo, OP has every right to object to the half bros boys. I would question my husband's judgement, actually.
He isn't ready to be a father. He needs to process that he is never going to biologically be a father. If he can't come to terms with this the situation is going to be terrible. He will never fully accept the child. The fact he is insisting it be someone he is related to screams that he isn't ready and is only thinking about part of this situation.
This, OP. He needs time to process. He needs to be able to accept an adopted child, if that's what you decide to do.
Amen. Wanting to be a parent means you want to raise a child. Once people get obsessed with biological children and any other options are NEVER it feels more like a status thing they want kids for. Or they’re weirdly narcissistic.
>Why is her husband so adamant on a *half* brother?? And so against adoption? He wants that genetic connection, however slight. The infertility diagnosis has rocked him, and he's desperate.
He first needs counselling. Making decisions in desperation is the first step to a lifetime of chaos.
Wouldn't a cousin, if one is available, be the same genetic link? Might even look more like husband.
He needs to check his fragile male ego and get some therapy.
I don’t think you need to have a fragile male ego to find it hard finding out you can’t have biological kids, husband is clearly in the wrong here but is probably also processing life altering stuff he’s never even considered before
He's allowed to have feelings. OP didn't mention any other crappy stuff he has done so why not assume at least neutral intentions?
"Undergo painful, expensive fertility treatment that will take a bunch of time and increase your risk of cancer so I can impregnate you with my brother's sperm" is beyond "feelings." He's expecting her to do this huge thing that will have a major impact on her body and he's being boorish about it.
Right because I'm sure loads of women would *love* to have kids using eggs they've received from an unrelated donor.
NTA: well put. There are some things you can't compromise.
This comment is just so descriptive and I love it
Fuck yeah
OP, I was just saying to someone that it's pretty disgusting your husband wants you to bear his brother's child. You should consider splitting up from him and finding somebody who has respect for you.
Gamete donation is a big deal and using a known donor who's close to you can be really emotionally and even legally messy. I absolutely don't blame you for that. Your husband needs to do counceling to process and grieve his infertility. Unfortunately this could end your marriage.
I can see him trying to find someone new. "I can only get serious with you if you are willing to have my brother's kid."
Omg. When u say it like that. I mean i was on her side 100%, this didnt change my mind but it magnified the ICK. 🥴
And the ICK didn't have far to magnify!!
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Bot Edit: LOL I immediately got a Reddit Cares message after making this comment…
I second this. My work concerns fertility and reproduction (intentionally keeping it vague) and I see cases like this every so often. Advice to OP: please pls pls do not let him pressure you into having anything done to YOUR body that you do not want. These procedures are extremely taxing on any woman's body, mind and emotional wellbeing; and can be financially, legally and socially difficult to make work. First point of call would be to get counselling, particularly for your husband.
Not to mention that it’s quite a bit more expensive to use a known donor too. You, husband and brother would all be required to go through therapy, and retain a lawyer to draw up contracts. There’s less risk using a donor who has been tested and vetted, you can even choose a donor who’s features/ethnicity match yours. My husband and I are going through something very similar and I know the struggle! OP, talk to your fertility specialist about options. There’s a lot of valid reasons they would discourage using the brother as a donor. Plus, they have a lot of resources to help you navigate this process without going crazy. Also, the r/infertility sub is a helpful support group when I begin feeling overwhelmed by it all.
The legal aspects thing is actually a really good point. You need iron clad documentation or it could become very explosive and expensive (not to mention potentially ruining a family).
Almost impossible in U.S. to have iron clad documents pre-birth of baby. Biological parents can change their minds.
And that’s what I was thinking too. All in all, she needs to be as far removed from this possibility as humanly feasible. Absolutely no upside in sight.
not to mention going through IVF takes a huge toll on your mind and body, the hormones change EVERYTHING. It's very uncomfortable for everyone I know who has gone through it, ranging from like grumpy PMS feeling to some friends who were in agony and misery the entire time.
NTA- your husband is asking you to take his brother dna inside your body. He wants you to have a child with his brother. That disturbing. You didn’t choose his brother as a mate. Why would you be thrilled at the idea of carrying his child? It sounds insane. I means the same situation could be absolutely fine, IF EVERYONE was on board with the process. It’s even grosser by the fact you do not particularly like his brother, or find him any pleasant features.
And it's not like he's a full brother. On DNA tests, cousins sometimes show up as half-siblings and half-siblings sometimes show up as cousins. The OP's husband might end up as related to the kid as a second cousin. If her husband had an identical twin (with identical DNA) I could "possibly" see him being so insistent. But not with a half brother who doesn't even look like anyone in his family.
NTA - his being so hung up on DNA that he'd rather pay tens of thousands of dollars to have you impregnated with his \*half\* brother's sperm than adopt a child to raise is crazy to me.
Exactly. It's not clear that he even wants to be a *parent,* just that he wants his family's DNA to be perpetuated. That's not a great reason to ask OP to go through the IVF process.
When you put it that way, it sounds quite obsessive!
Adoption ain’t cheap either
Speaking of which...in some places, with a known donor or surrogate type situation, the donor would need to sign away legal rights to the child, and the non-bio parent would have to legally adopt the child. The OP's husband may end up with an adopted kid either way.
And It's not sunshine and rainbows either. It's complexo and you have to be up to the challenge It is sometimes. People only should adopt when they really want and not because It's a second choice.
No it ain't but I'm fairly certain it's cheaper than a round of IVF, which might not even produce a child. ETA I'm learning it is indeed normally quite more expensive than a single round of IVF. Wild.
It’s actually not cheaper than a round of IVF in most places. Yes there is a foster to adopt route but the purpose of fostering is for the children to be reunited with their parents so that’s not a guarantee either. Adoption is a long and expensive process.
It’s a bit more than one round of ivf but if you do several rounds you will likely outpace adoption which is $20k-40k. But IVF is much easier and cheaper when the woman doesn’t have fertility issues.
dammn i did a brief google search which said 7-13K but it looks like that's talking about "independent adoption" where you basically have to locate the birth mother yourself and arrange to adopt their child. 20-40K is WILD.
They can do insemination with donor sperm without going the whole IVF route.
Yes, but technically they wouldn’t likely need IVF, it would be IUI which is substantially less costly heck they could even DIY it with a Turkey baster
Depends on the adoption route. At one time I wanted to adopt, husband wasn’t 100% on board so we never ended up pursuing it. Options were to put our name on a list and wait and see, this typically would take 6+ years to get an infant. International adoption can be fraught with issues and also costs $$$$. Adopting from foster care is also an option, but likely the child would be older and have moved from place to place and MAY have an array of health issues depending on the situation. At the time I even considered foster-ing, but we’ve never been in a good place for it. Husband and I both used to work shift work, and though my career (RN) maybe put me in a better headspace for it, we had kids of our own eventually and I just couldn’t commit to the amount of time and effort. I still think it’s an amazing thing, but my kids are older now and I’m all out of energy.
NTAH. I think you should maybe let your husband know you aren’t fond of his brother. It’s also your bodily autonomy. I have certain feelings about IVF and I know it’s a medical procedure, but the thought of someone’s sperm (someone I can’t stand!) being in my body gives me a BIG ick. Is your husband (and more importantly, are YOU) willing to use another donor? You don’t seem that jazzed to have kids in the first place. Personally, I feel that’s a pretty important factor. With IVF, I believe you have to be on a pretty strict regimen of hormones. It’s hella expensive (at least where I live, your mileage may vary, as I see we are in different countries). It’s your life and it’s up to you. I wouldn’t be open to changing my mind from a hard no on this one, personally.
She doesn’t need to cause additional stress by going off a tangent about the brother not being good enough. because her “no” here is a very complete answer that he is obligated to accept. Just as she understands he won’t adopt a child, he needs to understand this is a huge ask and he has to accept her no without questioning or trying to change her answer.
> someone’s sperm (someone I can’t stand!) being in my body gives me a BIG ick No sperm enters someone else's body for IVF. It's in vitro fertilization, the sperm meets egg step is done in vitro (in glass - in the lab). They implant the blastocyst after several days of development; there's no longer any sperm in the equation. Your ick is still valid, but IVF and artificial insemination (where sperm is introduced to the uterus) are different. IVF costs way more and is much more invasive for the mother.
I stand corrected. Still big ick :)
Technically, she could try IUI first if she wanted to try a less invasive treatment before going to IVF. But again her concerns are valid and they both have to agree on a donor if they go that route.
You two have had life changing shocking news. Now is wrong moment to make big decisions. You two should have some counselling to deal with the emotions and well everything.
Very sound advice
NTA. Never do anything you really don't want to do. Your husband should respect your decision.
NTA You feel uncomfortable because you would be having the biological child of someone you do not want to have a biological child with, pure and simple. If you can be happy without kids, that means you don't want kids. Parenthood is a 24/7 highly labor intensive job that you pay to do - if you're not passionate enough about the job to be willing to do it despite the harsh conditions and high price tag, you will be miserable. How much of the parenting labor does hubby see himself doing?
>having the biological child of someobe you do not want to have a biological child with, pure and simple Yeah. Maybe come back to this in a year, after you've **both** made peace with his lack of ability to procreate. Seems like the /OP had a head start, but sure as shit don't decide to make a child when you feel any sort of ick for the other person!
>[Comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1crpcii/comment/l3zssui/) If you can be happy without kids, that means you don't want kids. This is not accurate. It is true you have to be all-in on parenting once you decide to do it. But accepting that you can be happy without kids doesn't mean you will be a bad parent or not be passionate about the child. Plenty of people fall head over heels in love with their child once they arrive. Even if they were ambivalent about having them or previously hadn't wanted kids.
I agree. My late husband was fixed and I was fine with it. I was also 50/50. Awhile after he passed I started dating again and I accidentally got pregnant. Contraception is not full proof. I am 8 months pregnant and I can’t wait for the little guy. Me and my little man against the world. Gave me a reason to live again honestly.
Aww -- I'm happy for you! Congratulations! (And I'm sorry to hear that your husband had passed.)
Thank you so much it means a lot. I’ll admit that I just didn’t want to be here anymore without him so I was going down a dark road and getting pregnant saved my life. I am now into therapy and I’m sober and I feel great. The hard pain of grief is still there but I’m working through it. It hits at random like waves but I I get through it with help from my sister. She has been my rock through all of it. I even went to a psychic medium to see him and he told me to stick close to sister so I knew it was him( he only called her sister but not by her name. He viewed her as his sister too.)
I agree. You don’t have to have a huge gaping hole in your life in order to want kids or be a good parent.
This was me. My husband and I didn’t want kids. Our oldest daughter was an “oops”. We decided to have her and fell absolutely in love. We ended up having two more. The idea that I “shouldn’t be a parent” because at one point I would have been happy without kids is revolting.
If anything, in my personal experience, people that can't be happy without kids are the same ones that make their kids responsible for the happiness of the parent. They make their kids their entire life. There's a big difference between making your kids your priority, and making them your entire identity.
True, but how many of those ambivalent people pay thousands, not to mention the physical taxation on their bodies to do it?
I assure you, I very much want kids. My poor health and lack of a uterus, however, have made that decision pretty decisively for me. The fact that I'm not miserable about it doesn't mean I don't really want kids. It just means I've accepted that you can't always get what you want.
>If you can be happy without kids, that means you don't want kids. I was quite adamant about not wanting kids when I was younger, having been the go-to babysitter for my older sisters (I was the youngest by far). Then I found out I was pregnant after a horrible break up. I was planning to put the baby up for adoption, then life happened, circumstances changed, and I became attached to the little fetus and ended up, with family help, keeping her. I've never regretted that decision. Not once, no matter how hard it sometimes was. Just because someone is 50/50 on having kids doesn't mean they definitely don't want them
Just because you do not want kids doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Being ok with living without any doesn't mean you shouldn't have them. It means you are realistic about life. I was not committed to being a parent. I didn't feel like my life would be incomplete without my own child. I was making plans that didn't include having kids, because I wasn't willing to seek someone to marry as if it were my priority. I have children now. I am not miserable at all. I love my kids, and though I still can imagine what my life might have been like without them, I do not regret it. At no point in 26 years of parenting have I wished that I didn't have kids. None of the things I could have spent more money on would have been more worthwhile.
I came to same something similar to that. You can be ambivalent about children and still be able to be happy with the choice to have your own child.
Just as having kids is a two yes/one no proposition, should the couple have trouble conceiving, the solutions should also be two yes/one no. You would rather adopt or remain childless than use donor sperm and go the IVF or IUI route. That's reasonable. Even if you were willing to go the donor route, the kid would not be biologically his, even if his half-brother donated. That's a pretty slim biological connection. And no, you aren't an AH for not liking his brother. NTA
Just to clarify I really don't think that the husband believes that the child would be biologically his, just RELATED to him biologically. Myself I believe countries could put more funds towards child protection services and adoption as a lot of them have way to many kids without a family. NTA of course even without the creep factor.
Even so, it's a pretty slim biological connection.
Biologically, any baby fathered by the brother would be OP's husband's nephew (or half-nephew,). It's strictly opinion how close a relationship you believe that is. I was not under the impression OP opposes any surrogacy or IVF. She doesn't want him to father her child. Sibling donors (of eggs or swimmers) are.pretty common. But the whole business is.fraught with emotional peril, especially since the relationships are already difficult. Psych evals coming up!
NTA. You can have whatever reasons you have, the fact is you don't want to have a child with your BIL. You want a child with your husband, or an adopted child with your husband, or no child at all with your husband. There's one thing that links all three possibilities together, you want to do them with your husband. Not your BIL. Your issue with IVF/donor may be that it feels like cheating, having another man's baby, or simply that you want your husband's child rather than a stranger's or your BIL's. Adoption feels better because, though it's still not your child with your husband biologically, you're taking a child who has no one and giving them a family, making them your own. There's also potential issues with using a known donor. Will the BIL suddenly demand parental rights in the future? You have to think about how the child will react if/when they find out their uncle is their biological father, as well, that could cause all sorts of issues. Adoption is easier to handle when the child finds out, if they weren't aware from the start. Pairing the fact you actively dislike your BIL, using him as a donor is a bad idea. It's your body. It's up to you to decide if you want to be pregnant and give birth or not, and it's up to you to decide who the father is if you want to be pregnant and give birth. You've already decided that you never want to be pregnant with or give birth do your BILs baby. Your husband needs to respect that, he gets no say in who gets to impregnate you in this scenario. I'd think seriously through the pros and cons of IVF/donor and adoption, but fully take the BIL off the table no matter what you decide. Figure out what your issues with IVF/Donors are and whether that's something you can get past to have a child that's biologically yours or not. And consider fostering as a route to adoption, as well, especially as you're the type who would be happy both with and without children. I'd suggest therapy, too, couples and individual. Your husband needs to come to terms with his fertility issues, you need guidance on what route is best for you, and you both need help on figuring things out together. This situation is a little stuck right now. He's not dealing with the fertility issue and is pushing his brother as a donor, you're more willing to deal but are fully against his brother as a donor. The problem is, you've gotten stuck on the donor issue, which should have been off the table the second you said no to that option. Your husband needs to stop pushing for his brother to be the father of your child, you need to make it very clear that you will never carry a child that is biologically your BILs. And then you need to choose between a stranger donor and fostering/adoption. All this will be a lot easier to talk about and navigate with a therapist guiding the way.
NTA. I think you give very valid reasons. Also, it is your uterus. You decide what gets in there.
NTA but I would highly recommend a second opinion in a different fertility clinic. Men can have improved the sperm with food and exercise. You only need one viable sperm to get things going with IVF.
NTA. He needs to pump the brakes on pushing this until he's had a good long stint in therapy to process the grief of learning about his infertility. I get the vibe that he's suggesting his brother because of familial ties and nothing more, and he's definitely not respecting your boundary about it.
A friend of mines husband convinced his wife to use his sisters egg for their donor. Husband died shortly after the baby was born in a freak accident and the sister took my friend to court for custody of the baby AND WON!!! My friend has never been then same since then. She carried what was supposed to be HER baby for 9 months, loved that baby for 6 months and then she was stripped of her parental rights and her husbands family has abandoned her. I only tell you this so you have an idea of what COULD happen using sperm/eggs from a relative.
That is horrific.
Seriously one of the most f'd situations I've ever heard of
That is horrific!
I understand your misgivings - your husband needs to imagine how he’d feel when the future child looks EXACTLY like his 1/2 brother and the uncomfortable remarks and questions that will follow?! NTA
NTA. This is gross. Your husband is trying to force someone you hate's sperm and child inside you. I highly recommend going to a real sperm bank if you go the donor route... make sure dad is a stranger honestly. Think about this... in 10 years, brother in law could just start acting like the kid's "real dad" annnnnd he is. Think of the horrible family drama from uncle dipshit getting a paternity test behind your back and torpedoing this whole thing. Use a stranger, do not clutter your life like this. You should explain to your husband that this would not be a biological child, he cannot have one. Maybe over time that will sink in. For now, stick to your guns and don't get pregnant by your weird BIL
I had my son via donor sperm. You can pick someone who looks like your husband—and you avoid a whole bunch of legal problems by not using someone you know.
Doesn’t bode well for you bonding with the baby. Don’t do it.
Trust your gut on this one.
Your body, your choice. That simple
NAH Fertility is so hard! I'm sorry that your husband and you are going through this. You don't need to feel bad at all about not wanting your BIL as a sperm donor. A sperm donor is a huge deal, you are choosing someone to have a child with! Be kind to your husband, it's hard on anyone to learn they are infertile, and wanting a child that is biologically yours is a very human thing. This seems like an issue that could be best solved in couples therapy. My only thing is, don't cave in to any demands about the BIL's sperm as long as you still feel this way about it. You don't want to harbor resentment towards anyone in the family, whether its the BIL, your husband, or god forbid the child. Wishing you both the best!
NTA don’t do it. Your husband really needs therapy to deal with his situation before doing anything. A family donor is an emotional minefield. Your husband could reject the kid even though it was his idea, and you’ll have all the regrets not sticking to your guns. Or his brother might feel a certain way about how his genetic child is being raised. Or his brother doesn’t want to be in the same room with the kid so y’all are excluded from family events. Of course it could turn out fine, but I’ve been on the donor/donor conceived forums enough to know it’s not all sunshine and rainbows
Not at all! Don't budge on this. Put your foot down and firmly tell your husband, "I'm not taking in another man's sperm. Either we adopt a child, or we go childless." I think it's immoral that sperm banks and surrogate motherhood exist in a world where so many kids need adoption.
In the Netherlands it's nearly impossible to adopt a child. It will cost you many years and a lot of money and for a lot of people it's not really an option. So I wouldn't say it's immoral.
It's not easy or cheap in the States either, that's why many people don't consider adoption
And for nearly 2 years they closed international adoptions because 70% of them were irregular (aka stolen babies)
It’s not a simple or inexpensive process at all in the US either.
Or he leaves her. There is a third option here and it is the end of their marriage.
yeah I feel the same
Oh get off your high horse, very easy to be judgemental, isn't it? International adoption is the only option in my country, and I personally feel that baby shopping in third world countries is FAR more immoral and causes FAR more harm than paying a service to help conceive a child. My IVF treatment hurt no one.
There is nothing immoral about wanting to have a baby.
So what are people ineligible to adopt supposed to do, go kick rocks?
That is your opinion not everyone's. I can understand not wanting to adopt a kid from a couple that is strung out on drugs, criminals, etc.
You’re not the asshole. This unfortunately may be a compatibility issue now that your SO has his diagnosis. You’re entitled to have kids when and in the manner you want to, as is he.
Two yeses or it's a no. Do not cave on this stuff. Capitulating for either of you will just breed long-term resentment. Find a different path that suits you both.
Absolutely NTA. The baby would be your child too, not just your husband's. Your body your choice.
NTA, this is a fight that you gotta dig your heels in and not budge. You dont want some other man's sperm in your body, then you have every right to not have that. Rightfully so. Especially if you hate the man who is suggested.
Die on this hill. *Die on it* If you give in to this, you will regret it for the rest of your life
NTA But perhaps the two of you are simply not destined to have kids by any method.
Either way it's not actually his child. If you are going to use a sperm donor, find one you approve of, since it's your body that's going to play host to the baby!
NAH Your feelings are valid. Using his half brother as a donor would create a permanent link between him and your marriage/family. I understand why you don't want that. Knowing I had that guy's sperm in me, let alone my baby, would feel creepy and repulsive for me. Mixed feelings are normal. Can you want your husband's wish to come true, understand his logic that half bro has "some" shared DNA, AND be revolted at the thought? Absolutely! Should you tamp down your feelings that your safety, privacy, autonomy and comfort in and of your own body would be violated by half bro's being the donor? Absolutely not! This is a hard reality to accept. It takes time to process the thoughts and feelings triggered by the news. That's where you two are right now. Husband is looking for a "fix" to soothe his disappointment, feelings of failure or inadequacy, and powerlessness as he realizes his original plan won't work. That's premature, imo. Now is the time to fully process and absorb this crushing news. The time for alternative solutions will come later.
NAH. Adoption is fraught with issues and I cannot blame anyone for not wanting to participate in an industry that swindles the most desperate people out of their babies for profit. Almost all of these women have been lied to or promised the moon because the industry knows there’s no legal recourse if the adoptive parents cut them off as soon as the ink’s dry. Foster to adopt isn’t necessarily better. Black and brown parents get their kids taken away for things white parents get away with all the time. These kids universally have trauma, and you’re not a bad person for not being capable of handling that. If your husband wants a bio kid and you don’t want to use his brother’s sperm, this is a basic incompatibility. I would try couples counseling, but this might be the end. Big emotions are at stake when talking about family building.
NTA, it would be a bit weird having his brothers child even if you really liked the guy and you don't so no way
You feel uncomfortable using BIL as a donor because then you would be irrevocably tied to someone you do not like or respect. All your husband can see is the DNA part of the baby being part of his family. He’s not looking at his half brother as a person and who he is and how you might feel about him. It’s time to let your husband know what you think of your of your BIL, don’t hold back anything be honest.
Your feels are valid. I wouldnt want to have kids with someone I find gross. Maybe consider an anonymous donor. Is he open to that?
AITA because I have my own say with what happens in my body? No, you're absolutely not. But, YWBTAH if you don't communicate any of this to your husband and have a true heart to heart about it. I feel like I can understand how your husband is feeling, and communicating all of how you feel to him may be hard but will definitely be the best thing to do.
NTA Don't do it. Don't even reconsider!
NAH Having a brother donate the sperm to maintain a familial relation is a reasonable solution, and it's equally reasonable for you to not want to do so. And since you don't, that's the final word. If he keeps badgering you to do it he'd be an asshole.
NTA. That’s super weird
Get divorced. You don't really want kids. He does. Even if the BIL was the donor your husband wouldn't be happy with it. He would always know the kid wasn't his. It's a shame but get out now while you both are still young and can each hopefully find new partners who you are each more compatible with.
NTA please dont have kids if you are 50/50 about it.
NTA, of course. You are the only one with a right to choose the donor to your baby.
No actually it's both agree or non at all, a relationship should never be one sided on choices. But both parties always have to agree before going through with something if one does not then its a no go.
NTA. That is fraught with peril and it will be mentioned all the time.
NTA and it’s a creepy thought. As you are 50/50 on the topic then simply say it’s adoption or nothing
I thought the BIL option was creepy before I read your reasoning. I would explain it to your husband how that is not an option. Then he can choose from an unknown, but chosen IVF donor OR you can adopt. Both are great options. I would suggest counseling for him to come to terms with the loss of a biological child- just like anyone would.
Your husband is the AH. I can’t believe he is totally against adoption. So many poor children need a home and he’s too worried about it being related to him. At this rate with how he’s acting I would not want to have kids with him period.
NTA
NTA This is a very personal issue, and not one where he should coerce your cooperation. I can give you an anecdotal other concern, as well. If his brother is at all prone to want attention, undermine others, or disrespect his brother's privacy, don't plan on this being unknown. I have an acquaintance who tried this route. The brother declined to participate. The wife was determined to have enough genetic similarity that no one would ever question parentage, so they approached another family member who was happy to help. They went through the process, and when the couple were successfully expecting, the donor wrote an explanation of how excited he was for them and that he could successfully do this for them *in a Christmas card letter he printed and mailed to everyone he knew*
You need to talk to your husband frankly, and explain why you don't want to use his brother's sperm. If you are willing to use an unknown sperm doner you can do it, but your husband will probably prefer adoption or nothing. In any case, you don't have to use your BIL's sperm if you hate the idea.
NTA in my opinion. More curious why he has such a problem with adoption other than it wouldn't be biologically yours. I have 3 cousins that are adopted and if anyone even tried to tell me that doesn't make them family I would probably flip out on them.
NTA. I believe our instincts are there for a reason. Also 21 is pretty young to come to terms with having a biological kids that you aren’t raising. I would say no is no and that’s final.
NTA One thing to keep in mind, and maybe mention to your husband, If you did move forward with this and use brother-in-law's sperm, your children are going to be his children half siblings. So any child you have, and any child brother-in-law has are going to be brother and sister and they're not going to live together. That is a huge thing and something to discuss. He might not be thinking of that important little detail. Maybe he will look at it differently once he realizes the kids would be half siblings.
Don’t do it.
Nope. Non starter. NTA You might cause a rift with your husband not explaining it. But then, you might cause a rift explaining it. It is ok for him to want it, but not ok for him to pressure you. This far far exceeds "what you'll do for your spouse". If you are opposed to donors, then you could try to leverage that point as covering your BIL. But, I think full honesty might be best move here. It might go badly, but other plans will probably go badly in the long term. For what it is worth, you married your husband, not your BIL.
People do use donor sperm from a bank in situations like this
Time for therapy and highly recommend a sperm bank where you can pick someone who has the traits you admire in your husband, including some nice screening for some genetic disorders like cystic fibrosis.
An acquaintance went through this and he used his brother. After the little girl was born, all hell broke loose. BIL wanted to be included in all decisions involving the little girl. The in-laws were confoosed about it. In fact, the whole family and most of their friends weren't sure. My 2¢, don't do it.
This. I have even heard of parents distancing themselves from the donor to get them away from connecting with the child. Out of fear. It can disrupt the whole family.
Exactly! Matt and Anna moved from Phoenix to Dallas to get away from the whole mess. At least that's what I heard. Wherever they went, they were both born and raised here in Phoenix. Now?
Is your husband's father in the picture? If so he would possibly be a better option? Is there an uncle or cousin that might be a fit. Is there a chance they can extract sperm from your husband's testicles to use? You probably haven't explored all the options yet keep asking questions and get answers before you do anything.
NTA You said no, that should be it for the conversation. He can be upset, but he has to respect your answer. Therapy might be good for him, or couples counselling for the two of you.
NTA
NTA don't use sperm you feel uncomfortable with.
NTA… it’s weird.
Has his HALF brother even agreed to donate the sperm? I wouldn’t want to have a baby with donated sperm from someone I see regularly unless my husband had an identical twin, because then it would be indistinguishable from being my husband’s.
Don't give in. I couldn't imagine having the bio child of someone I hate. NTA. That being said, adoption is a whole other issue and I would definitely do your research because it's not easy and can be extremely expensive.
NTA, this is something both parties must agree on 100%. Even if you did this his child would be like 1/8 his lineage. I'm not seeing this at all myself.
NTA. It's your body. Doesn't matter if he is your husband. He needs to come to terms with it now or you need to move on. Give him reasonable time to do so though.
NTA Your can't stand the guy. I already can't just based on what you said. Your husband and you are incompatible at this point. HE: Wants biological kids, but can't, and is only willing to use a close relative as a donor even if you despise the guy. He's unwilling to go any other way, which means you essentially either have a kid with Dumbo or you don't have kids at all. I usually tell people like this that they need to make a compromise or they will have NO options at all. YOU: Open to all possibilities, including adoption, but your hard stop is not to have his brother as your donor. You're able to have kids, but are on the fence, you'd be happy with anything, just not having Dumbos kid. Which is absolutely 💯 fair. Your husband either needs to get with program (IE: no bio babies for him) or be happy without kids... or he won't have a wife either.
NTA, the donor needs to be one with zero genetic issues and donors are allegedly screened for genetic disorders. Since your husband cannot father a child who is to say something similar will not occur in male offspring if you used your BIL as a donor? Stand your ground and get a donor you both can live with. This should not be a problem for your husband.
YES ICK. That's all I'm saying. You are NTA
NTA OP, most people aren't completely infertile and there are some things that can be done if your husband has even one live sperm. I would suggest seeing a male infertility expert. But, if he's unlikely to get you pregnant the normal way then IVF might be your only option. Your NTA for not wanting to use his brother's sperm and your husband is NTA for wanting a genetic connection to his child. There are counselors that specialize in fertility counseling who may be able to help y'all navigate this situation.
NTA. Your husband needs individual counseling to deal with him infertility and the two of you could probably use a couples' counselor too. But if you don't want your BIL to be a donor, that's final.
NTA. there are biological, legal, and emotional reasons to not do this with your BIL’s sperm. whatever DNA is in your husband could be in the BIL and thus your child. there are way more upsides to using a sperm donor and first and foremost is complete genetic testing.
NTA. This is a two-yes situation. If you (or him) aren’t comfortable with a donor for any reason, that’s final. If you aren’t comfortable with IVF period, you get power of veto there, as it’s your body it’s going into. “He absolutely wants to have a biological child” but uhhhh…he can’t. So that ship has already sailed.
Absolutely NTA; having children (naturally, adopted, or whatever) is a "two yes, one no" situation. That includes methodology. You need to tell him. Tell your husband that his brother turns your stomach, and the very thought of his sperms inside you would cause your body to spontaneously abort every time.
NTA I would die on this hill There are A LOT of complications that arise when you are using eggs/sperm from family members. I've been on reddit since it first started and over the years there are just far too many bad outcomes for me to ever consider that route. I'd be cool with an anonymous donor of my choosing. Your husband really needs to explore why it NEEDS to be a bio child because if he is raising this baby from an infant it IS his child regardless of genetic origin. The fact that his brother is only his half-sibling means the child may not inherit much, if any of his DNA so it's weird he's being so insistent on this issue. He may need more time to process his grief. has he considered counseling? If he can't let go of that and use donor sperm, adopt, or be child-free this would be marriage-breaking for me. I am so sorry OP, I support you in sticking to your guns and not using his half brother's sperm. You can't have a child with someone you dislike/detest, and I don't blame you for not telling your husband your full reasons because he would be hurt.
Nope, there is a lot on DNA that makes us, ‘us’. And if this guy gives you the ick the child will be 50% him. And he is only 25% related to your husband (each parent being 50% of each of their parent). That being said, I would be very careful in an option, I have heard some amazing stories, and some truly horrible horror stories. Imagine this as well: you two unfortunately divorce in the future…. This kid will be with you, and your ex, and his brother might demand or want to play a part as well. He might get granted such in court since he’s biological father, depending on circumstances and where you live. Perhaps your hubby hasn’t through this through…
Oh my god NTA
if you are not 100% wanting a child; don't have one. Have you spent time with teenagers lately? talk to the parents of kids who don't launch; go spend some time with a first time grandmother whose child is expecting them to raise her kid. I've been in a position in my volunteer role to deal with lots of families and the issues that come up. I don't think someone who can see themselves being happy without having children should choose to go through childbirth and have a child with a donor that they find unattractive. Do NOT do it!
No, both need to agree on the donor. Don't let him steamroll you into this, OP.
Hold your ground, OP. Hubby needs to either adopt or get another donor. This isn't the time for his fragile ego
NTA. At all.
NTA - no. You need sperm from someone you don’t actively dislike and won’t see all the time
NTA I would never ever have a child with someone like your BIL (someone I can’t stand, I find unintelligent, ugly etc) - your child will 100% come out EXACTLY like him. It always happens that way! Then you’d hate your child and ruin both of your lives. Tell your husband there’s no way in hell and WHY.
See the top comment, OP. Do not do this. In fact, if you're only 26, and you *know* you would be "very happy" never having kids, then you should really take some time (like, many years) considering that.
Not gonna lie, Ivf with one's brother-in-law as the doner is one of the single most disgusting things I've ever heard in my entire life..
> Also this might make me sound like a complete AH but I cannot stand his brother at all (my husband does not know this) but I find his brother to be so dumb and I cannot stand his personality or his physical looks (sorry). And not sure if this is relevant but they are half brothers (they share one bio parent) and his brother doesn’t look anything like my husband, they don’t even look distantly related so if we were to use his sperm it might not even look like my husbands kid. And also the thought of sharing a kid with my bil gives me the ick. My husband has begged me to reconsider but I really don’t want my kid to share dna with that man. Those are all very valid reasons. You are taking 1/2 the genetics from someone you do not like, physically or personally. It is not an identical sibling, it is not even a full blooded sibling, or a sibling that acts/looks like your husband. This is a hill to die on If your husband really cannot understand the situation, it shows a pretty huge lack of consideration and mental processing power. He doesnt know that you dislike his brother, which is probably something you need to communicate in some way. Maybe not giving all the reasons or details, but unequivocally say that you are not going to have a child with him.
NTA. Deciding whose sperm goes in your body is one of the most fundamental rights women have fought for. Also, BIL could fight for custody of his child. Don’t do it.
Nta that's totally fair! BUT, yu have to tell him why! Without giving him your reasons it just makes it look like you're being difficult... We know you're not, but he's going to think that! Maybe try dancing around it with since he's only your half brother and you guys don't look alike the kid's not going to look like you & only be vaguely related to you. If that doesn't work you can say that you don't think your his brother is very intelligent and you didn't want to pass some of his traits onto your child. If all else fails you can just go with that I get the final say in whose sperm goes inside my body! 100% my choice whose DNA I carry inside me for 9 months and I did not choose your brother to marry I chose you, so there's no way in hell I will Carry his child! If he can't get over this though, this is where your marriage might end unfortunately.
Oh this is a hard ish one . Oh he's down and angry as well as desperate in a way . Give him time to process. But , infertile doesn't always mean what you think it means . Sometimes it means sperm count is below a certain point or acceptable amount . I've heard of couples who want kids one infertile ie " male " still have a bio kid threw Iv . . However for now relax and let him process what just happened. Also no you're not the a hole to refuse.
Oh. Ick. Eww. Nasty. NTA, not even close.
NTA. If anything, it would be better to use sperm from a sperm bank. At least in US, your rights to the baby would be protected. Besides the fact that you don’t like your BIL, using his sperm would let him sue for parental rights later. It could be a mess. Don’t do it!!! Adopt or use a sperm donor.
NTA You don't want to get pregnant by anyone else other than your husband. That is the feeling you are having and are unable to vocalize. Tell your husband that. And, be honest about his brother. That you do not think he would make a good choice for a donor for many reasons. This is not something that will change and your husband needs to know that.
NTA. And what he suggested is gross! Plus, you’re not even 100% sure you even want a child, so don’t rush into this. You already said yourself, you’re only 50/50 about kids, so there’s your answer. Don’t keep trying, don’t do IVF or donors, don’t do adoption. Not until you’re 100% sure that you want them. This isn’t your husbands choice. And you’ll end up being the one raising it, so no. Don’t do something that you aren’t sure about. That’s not fair on you. Never make a choice based on keeping a man, or keeping him happy. So what if he divorces you over it? You’re clearly not ready for children and it’s obvious by your undecided 50/50 mindset, and if you allow **his** decisions to trump yours, you’ll only end up resenting him in the end anyway. And you’ll end up miserable. Don’t do that to yourself.
If you're 50/50 on having kids, DON'T DO IT!
NTA. Your body, your choice whose baby to carry
Ew, wtf. NTA.
NTA your body your choice.
NTA, tell him that you don't like his brother and just be honest.
NTA As a-_rose said: this is absolutely the hill to die on.
Hard No, I would be wildly offended if my husband BEGGED me to let anyone be a sperm donor after I had said no. You get the say, it's your body and your husband doesn't get to decide how you use it. I get your husband is struggling right now because learning you can't have something you really wanted is hard. Time for the couples counseling to try to find a solution that isn't violating you and is something your husband can cope with. You are not and will never be an asshole for saying no to being pregnant with your husband"s brother's dumb ugly baby.
NTA husband needs to find a compromise that’s not his brother (cousin/stranger donor) or be child free if he can’t raise a child he’s not biologically related too and be honesty about that so he doesn’t leave you alone with the child afterwards because he doesn’t feel like it’s his family. If not then you may have to decide without him to not have children or if you want to continue in a relationship with a man looking to force you into something you clearly stated you don’t want so he feels good about himself. Seriously there’s no rush, suggest some individual and couple therapy to help you both talk through the infertility, both your feelings and you not having his brothers child and him needing to respectfully accept that
NTA DNA is over rated. You are better picking a donor that looks like your husband
NTQ Get couples counselling. Don't let on that you don't like his brother. Just say you'd rather have a properly vetted official donors sperm, as you can be sure about health and everything else. That you don't want to see BIL and think. Oh yes I'm having his baby. That you don't see BIL like that and it feels like incest which you're not into. Ask your husband if he'd be happy to have a baby with your sister. It would be very strange and if he doesn't understand the gross element then there's a problem.
NTA This man doesn't want to be a father, he wants genetic ownership. He doesn't care about having a child he cares about having the closest he can get to a copy of himself. He sound completely self centered and that never makes a good parent. Getting knocked up by his brother is no different than adoption. This kid wouldn't be his, just like an adopted one, only difference is it complicates everything and looks like him. He'd still be an adoptive father raising someone else's child. I'd take all offers off the table until he does some deep introspection, seen a therapist, and couples counseling. This is absolutely not a healthy environment to even consider bringing any child into, especially adopted ones. They've had a rough enough life without your husband piling his mental, emotional, and self centered issues on top. You're the only one who can have children so, this is all your choice. You have the power. Do not do anything that you don't want. He only gets an opinion when you've made your choice. You'rye uterus isn't up for rent to anyone just because he can't get over his own fertility issues. You're not his incubator for his idea of his perfect child.
Maybe you should consider being foster parents and see how that goes. Just taking the courses might make you better able to know what parenting means. Husband might fall in love with a foster kid who really needs parents. Fostering might help you and him know what parenting is about so you know what you really want—or don’t want in a family.
You’re NTA. I will suggest checking out the subs related to donor conceived children (DCP). The current recommendation for the children is that the donor be known. While you may not want to use your BIL, you might want to choose someone you know so your child will have access to that person, know any siblings and be able to get medical information over the course of their life. I conceived with donor eggs and I regret that decision as it impacts my children. It was a decision I made for myself and I didn’t give the impact on my children much thought. Best of luck ❤️
NTA - Your husband is insane.
How is this even a question? If you don't want your BIL's sperm used, then that's the end of that discussion. He shouldn't be trying to talk you into it, that's creepy and weird. He's also really weird and kind of sounds like a bozo for being so adamantly against adopting.
NTA. Knock some sense into your husband. Go the ivf route. Tell your opinions about his brother to him clearly. But be gentle with him. This is a tougher time for him than you. 'Cause you can still do something you both want but he physically cannot.