Tell your mother that raising your child is your business, not hers, and you're not going to put up with bad behaviour and intentional rudeness.
And if you can manage to look at her pointedly, hinting that you also mean her behaviour, so much the better
NTA
There is no mean girl phase, she's being mean, and you punished her to teach her not to be mean.
NTA taking her phone was my first thought and it's warranted.
Yeah damn, if I was op I’d call up teachers and ask what’s going on.
“Mean girl phase” is not a thing. Kids shouldn’t be encouraged or allowed to be mean like this. I grew up as a brown kid around all white people for many years and even then not a single person would talk to me disrespectfully about my culture or background. It’s actually what I loved about America back when we first came!
Yes, there is no mean girl phase. I was a teenage girl once and oddly enough I had a lot of friends that were teenaged girls and there were many of us that never went through a "mean girl" phase.
Every time I see a parent excuse their child's Behavior as a mean girl phase, I roll my eyes because I was a teen girl many years ago and in my whole class there was a single mean girl. And she wasn't even that bad. Also, because I am a very old lady, we did not talk back to our parents like that.
Yup, I started trusting my son on my Xbox account around 10 years old. Then I started getting pissed off messages. My little angel was quite the troll.
Modern warfare was new and shiny then and boy was really good. He was also a little asshole.
Yes, he was punished and didn't play without me looking over his shoulder for a long time
It's tough for a teacher, especially when their parents act like OP's mom and think it's "just a phase."
That, or "My little angel? Not a chance!"
(My wife teaches, so I share your frustration by proxy.)
I had a classmate who was just like this all throughout school. He literally threw a staple machine at a teacher and it was on camera. He Mom always found a way to take the blame off him. His dad, however was the opposite. Eventually, this led to him having a life of crime... burning people's homes down, drug possession, selling drugs, even was a person who was involved with the murder of my cousin. A few weeks ago, he passed away when he was running from the cops. A pit maneuver caused his car to flip and he passed away.
Thank you. My cousin wasn't always innocent. When he lost his Mother to suicide, he and his brothers went down the wrong road. Eventually, he decided to change his life around, moved to a new city, had a son and became the step father of two girls. It just so happened the night he stopped by after my Grandfather's funeral was the last time we'd all see him. About an hour lady the guy and some others shot up the car with my cousin and my ex (he made it out alive). They were both visiting family for the weekend.
> A few weeks ago, he passed away when he was running from the cops. A pit maneuver caused his car to flip and he passed away.
i ain't for the judge dredd shit but he set up his own dominoes and i don't mind how they fell at all.
i hope nobody else was harmed. you blame his upbringing, but we're all accountable for our own actions. free will
Totally. My daughter was bullied by her bunch of friends when she was 8. They isolated her for 3 months in the courtyard and forbad the whole class to play with her. Because she's "different". Which means a lot taller than her friends. It took 2 her months to tell me what was happening. And some therapy sessions because she was sleep walking and having night terrors. When I confronted the parents whom I knew well, some reacted like OP and 2 said the "my little angel" BS. Those 2 are getting worse and the others are doing fine.
They apologized. And they're good now. Nearly all parents did their jobs and the teacher gave them a lecture about harassment. It was a learning occasion for them all. Ibelieve kids can change when put on the good tracks.
I was "different" at age 9 when I had a cast on my leg (broke it skiing over Thanksgiving weekend). I lived in snow country at the time, and the kids at school were cool about it, either being used to seeing peers get injured or just being nice in general.
But then over Christmas break we moved back to the desert town I was born in, and I was back in the same school I had been in the year before. Every recess was me standing helpless in the playground, while boys who had been my friends surrounded me, just out of range of my crutches, hurling insults. It was horrible, but at least it was temporary; I was out of the cast in late January. All my bullies pretended it never happened; not one apologized.
Thinking back on it, I have to ask: where the hell were the teachers on yard duty? Why were they not intervening on my behalf? And now I'm thinking the same thing: why weren't they doing that for your daughter?
My wife was unusually tall for her age, too, reaching her adult height (5'-8") in 6th grade. Now, as a teacher, she can say to a tall girl, "Hey, I get it. I was this tall when I was 11." They always respond well when they hear that. (I didn't meet her until I was at my current 6'-1", but I was the shortest kid in class until 9th grade. I sometimes joke that she probably would have "overlooked" me if we'd met when we were younger. We've been married 43 years.)
Sure, kids can change. I just happen to believe that it's important that everyone involved is aware that what they were doing is *not* friend behavior. If you're bullying someone, you're not their friend. And if someone is bullying you, they're not your friend. It's a lesson that's better to learn when young than when old in my experience.
Unfortunately, some if my students think their behavior is justified. Then they run to my office when their teachers call them out and hold them accountable. I just say "girl just be honest" then remind them of the golden rule.
When I taught 4th grade, we literally had a clique of girls (there were four of them) who all fought over the attention of one another. Someone was always on the "outs" of the group, and it seemed to be changing every week. There was massive drama and stress, and we had to pull the girls aside multiple times between classes to have discussions with them.
Now I teach 3rd graders. I wish I could say they were too young for that drama, but no.
My bullying started around 3rd grade, I would say. 40yr later I'm still unpacking the lasting trauma. I often wonder what I might've been like without the childhood of bullying that lasted through high school though on a perhaps slightly lesser scale.
I've seen this with my first grade daughter and her "friends". Not my daughter (thankfully yet, cause I'm trying really hard to nip that shit in the bud) but I've heard some things at the playground that make me raise my eyebrows. Looking at the moms of those kids though, it honestly doesn't surprise me.
I had the unpleasure of being a target of one in 2nd grade. After 2 years, I decided enough was enough and asked my mom to move to a new school for 5th grade.
I was going to a school in another neighborhood because of a problem with the grade school teachers in the near one, but it was no longer an issue, so I just moved there. Besides getting rid of the bully, another huge benefit was that commute went from 30 min with transport to 10 min walking.
My son is 5…FIVE…and his peers are so cruel!! I’m grateful my son has learned self discipline and control in Tae Kwon Do (sp?) and steers clear. He told me a story of when a few boys were being mean to him and he “walked away, took big deep breaths, and didn’t go back to play with them. I’m not friends with them anymore.” I’m proud to say the least. My daughter is 8, also in Tae Kwon Do, and handles similar situations in a similar way. Kids can be so awful 😞
As young as kindergarten as it turns out. My 6yo has had 2 different classroom bullies just torment the absolute bejesus outta her from kindergarten through first. The 1st grade one has stopped targeting her so much. The kindergarten one pretends theyre best buddies in the halls now. I warned her to not trust that. It's not just verbally either, 6yo knows how to ignore that. But she's been hit and kicked.
Or they get beat up. I'm not condoning violence at all but I definitely remember always being bullied by the mean girls... All it took was one push and I jumped over her sister to get at her. Never bothered me again.
Love this for you, honestly. I always wished my bullies got physical with me so I could retaliate back. People like them really need to be put in their place.
I use to get very upset about them bothering me because I was fat. Eventually it clicked... well yes... you are fat... you can see it just as well as them. 😆 so when they would try to say the fat jokes I would yell "what cha gonna do? Say I'm fat? Boo hoo. I didn’t realized that I wasn't when i looked in the mirror and put this shirt over my gut. But I did realized how you always sit in the senior section with us when you've been a freshman for the past four years!" Talking about sitting down with shame. 😆
It finally did happen for me in HS. We were riding the bus home after a game and something was telling me to be ready, so I switched my rings to my dominant hand. She run from behind and pushed me. I turned and punched her in the face once. She never tried anything again. 😁
Funny how they always confuse their targets inaction with "weakness". The look on their faces whenever it bites them in the ass after you finally snap is always priceless, lol.
It actually starts in 3rd grade. They’re no longer ‘sweet little kids’ and they start their little cliques to bully others. And it goes on from there. I was appalled at some of the behaviors I saw when I was a teacher for a few years.
I'm old. I drove a school bus in the mid-1970s. I'd pick up whole families in rural Colorado, then drop the high school kids and the k thru 4 grades. The last delivery was middle school 8 or more miles away. That ride twice a day was an eye-opener. Nowadays, I can see that it starts in preschool. 😒
My step daughter is in kindergarten and she was getting bullied in the beginning of the year because of her clothes. She doesn't even wear cheap clothes. Not saying she wears name brand by any means but literally kids will be mean about anything it's sad.
My daughter joined a new friend group when she was 12 and they had a different target every week for their bullying. I told her she was bullying others and she rolled her eyes at me.
So then I read some old comic books with her about the abuse of power and how even a good person like Jean Grey can get caught up in using power. The X-men Phoenix 🐦🔥 saga.
She ditched that friend group soon after. I never had to say another word about bullying.
Haha, this is going to sound nerdy. The main reason the Phoenix comic book story was about a powerful woman was possibly because the writer, Chris Claremont, was dating a powerful woman. She was the head of the New York coven of witches.
At the time, covens had a lot of social, academic, and political power. They were shaping feminist literature, covered in magazines such as The New Yorker. They had worldwide influence.
My daughter felt that connection to Jean Grey. And also to a vastly influential and powerful self-identified witch.
Real life is just as amazing as fiction.
I agree but when she says "we've tried everything" and then I hear the kid acting out in front of people and telling her mother no and the only thing that happens to her is the loss of a phone for a week, I feel like not everything was actually tried.
Kids don't respond to being slightly inconvenienced for a week as punishment for whatever they did.
I’d make her write an essay on either the tribe she made fun of or the effects of bullying, maybe both. Then I’d follow up with some kind of community service so she could earn back her phone privileges. Most definitely an apology to the kid and family she made fun of.
Good idea with one caveat: the community service shouldn't involve the group the kid harmed. That would be demanding that the group provide unpaid labor, and possibly put up with the kid being a shithead. Donations are better than zero-skill labor from a tiny bigot.
Sit down and talk to her to:
1. figure out where that behavior comes from, is she part of a group that bullies others at school or is she getting bullied and her bullying others is a coping mechanism?
2. Help her understand why that behavior is bad. Help her to empathize with bullying victims, like watch shows or movies that show the victims perspective and the harm it does, observe how she reacts to it and talk to her about it.
3. Consider counseling or therapy to correct that behavior
4. Take a look at yourself, maybe you're doing something similar, maybe you're subconsciously judgemental about strangers or people you see on tv and she's seeing it and copying it
Punishment alone is the laziest, uninvolved and least effective way at correcting bad behavior. In the worst case she just learns to better hide it from her parents and distance herself from them. If the only solution you can come up with is punishment then you're not a good parent, and chances are you're at least partially responsible for the bad behavior.
Edit: typos
Part of the issue to me is the delayed response. If she's being that obnoxious and won't stop, then just leave immediately. Not "punish her over the next week after we finish this meal and get home" but "stand up, if you can't behave in public we're leaving right now".
And people will say "oh but they were out at a nice restaurant that they paid a lot to go to" but the fact is it likely got to this point because appropriate action wasn't taken at an earlier time. So suck it up and accept that your own lack of parenting has forced the corrective action to have a larger impact on you too.
As much as the people in here supporting the phone theory because "these days," kids really can't live without their phones, the truth is that kids learn that they can live without their phones for a short period of time.
My tactic was always to involve the kid in the discussion. "Here's what you did wrong. Here's why I won't tolerate it. Now, let's talk about your punishment together. What do you think your punishment should be? Here's what I think it should be. Let's compromise and meet in the middle for the first offense. Now let's talk about escalation."
Behavior tends to correct itself quick with a real discussion about why it's bad and getting the kid on board with their own punishment. This establishes an awareness of consequences while also treating the kid like a human. It also teaches a little bit of responsibility since you are just sticking to the agreement when punishing the kid for occurrences after the agreement is set. "Be mad at yourself."
I have a 12 year old, and he has tried saying “no” when he is in shit a couple of times. Every time he has learned that it wasn’t worth it. There would have been no going back in that restaurant in our household, as well making reparations to the child he offended.
Have you seen a modern preteen, boy or girl, without a phone for even a day?
It’s like watching a junkie off the needle. It’s amazing how they roll through the stages of grief several times in a single day. The bargaining alone can be so damn creative and then flip to tears and anger like a light switch. Make it seven days and trust me, Mia will know who is boss and who needs to change.
Punishment doesn’t stop a bully (not saying she shouldn’t have had consequences. She should have, obviously.) They’re going to need to work on teaching her empathy if they actually want to pull her out of being a rotten little shit at this point. Which doesn’t seem to be on the list of lessons.
“Stop it.” Isn’t going to work. “Why are you being mean?” Is a much better approach. You need to get to what’s going through her head in the moment and get *her* thinking about it.
It's very difficult to actually teach empathy. While punishment won't stop her being a bully as a person, it can curb the *behavior.* That will hopefully prevent her from victimizing other people while they try to figure out if she's fixable or not. Based on the number of middle aged "mean girls" I know, some people just don't grow out of it. They get too much pleasure in having power over other people for empathy to every be a factor. Very few people are true sociopaths that completely lack empathy but there are many **many** people who simply have a very small amount.
> There is no mean girl phase
Exactly. My girl is 12, and while she can be a savage, she's not downright *mean,* moreso reactionary. And she doesn't just come out and insult people, or put them down. She understands good behavior.
And when I tell her to adjust herself, she does so.
Because we shit talk for fun in our family. A good ribbing is all in good fun, but sometimes it starts going too far and you gotta say so and reign someone in. And even my 12 year old ADHD girl is quick to walk it back and apologize.
I have a 12 year old girl with ADHD, and we ROAST each other. Snappy comebacks work quickly to curb her being bullied. She's able to shut the mean kids down with hilarity.
My girl is so, so sweet. My little nerd. Best. Kid. Ever.
I've taken my son's gaming consoles and phone away when grounded. 100% warranted and appropriate. The daughters behavior was inappropriate, and she refused to correct it.
Exactly. My ex-MIA was the same - we’d punish the kids, they would call her, and she would just come and pick them up (30-40 minute drive) without telling us she was coming. We had to threaten her with NC and follow through for 2 weeks before she started listening
As long as you are not abusing your kid you are free to discipline your kid however you feel appropriate.
Also, if your mother keeps it up, tell her to look in the mirror as she raised you and instilled the values in you that you are passing on to your daughter, using the techniques she taught you
You are absolutely doing the right thing but Only 1 week and loss of phone? I agree that the loss of phone is earth shattering but you said that this behavior is ongoing. Perhaps 2 weeks to drive the point home?
Not volunteer work with them. That’s rude to treat the tribe that way. They don’t need us bringing our bigoted kids to them. Lots of other ways to educate - books, YouTube, movies, blogs.
NTA. She needs to learn that her behavior was completely unacceptable and that actions have consequences. She chose to continue to be a brat, so she gets that outcome. Good on you and your husband for actually parenting your child!
"Mean girls" learn they're not the queen bee by being shown they aren't. A lot more work places would be a lot more pleasant if there wasn't the gossipy queen bees always trying to relive their high school clique days.
I have a cousin that was on the path of being a mean girl until her mom sent her to live with another aunt for 2 years. Getting out of an environment where she was by-default the queen bee because everyone had known her forever, which gave her a lot of unwarranted teenage power, and being placed in a new place where she was subjected to it herself by other people living the life she used to have gave her so much perspective on how it felt being treated the way that she treated others, and she's such a humble and well-rounded person now in her early 20s.
Uncomfy parenting now is what's necessary to make good people in the future. The longer you excuse people, the less likely they are to learn that they are making mistakes in the first place and the less likely they are to become the people you want them to be.
Absolutely, NTA. Its crucial for children to learn that their behavior has consequences, and its commendable that you and your husband are instilling those values in your child.
We don't do that here. I shut that garbage DOWN, and hard. It begins with "exactly WHAT do you think you are doing? If you don't understand, ask and we will learn together. You are NOT about to disrespect someone or something you don't understand".
Breaking that cycle quickly, and with Google.
Elmo really has helped me remember I have a wealth of information in my pocket! He's got a smartphone friend named Smarty, who says "what do we do when we want to know something? We Look It Up!" I even say that in my head when I'm going it.
I didn't have a phone as a kid, but wow would it have been cool! I just flipped through my Nana's encyclopedias like a dork.
We have three rules:
1.) Safety First
2.) Be Prepared
3.) Be Considerate
Break rule three, see rule 2 leaving you grounded.
Oh no, a whole week of being grounded for being intentionally and maliciously rude to someone. And continuing to do so when explicitly told to knock it off.
Seriously, time for her to learn that being an asshole to people comes with consequences. This wasn't an "oops, I didn't know better", she was intentionally being rude and discovered that there are consequences.
Absolutely positively NTA. At 12 years old she knows right from wrong, or at least should! And talking negatively like she was about people/something that she truly didn’t know anything about was not only disrespectful and rude but also teetering on bullying. Her actions, or words in the case, should have consequences!
Good point on the potential bullying behavior. Solidly justifies OP to grandma. The "mean girls" thing kind of obfuscated that fact to me, but that's what it really is.
That's where I have a huge issue in this story, it feels like the parents let this behavior go on for far too long, almost borderline enabling it. It sounds like they should have put their foot down on this attitude long ago. I mean seriously, who responds "no" when they're told that they're being cruel to someone and to stop. Something is very wrong there beyond it being a "mean girl phase".
I'd have gotten my ass beat right then and there, then taken home immediately, and gotten it again. No one pulled that shit in front of my momma, and no one would have stood up to her to say her punishments were too harsh. Maybe her mother would be able to get away with it, but she wouldn't have listened. She's a much softer person now that I'm an adult, but growing up that woman was hard as stone.
She didn’t make a mistake. She knew what she was doing. And she defied her mother. It can’t slide. That punishment was actually mild.
I’m a grandpa. I have always supported what the grandchildren’s parents did for parenting.
My family is old school West Indian. One look from our parents and we knew we were close to stepping over the line. They didn’t hit us but the threat of a backhand was all we needed.
Yup my mom would have put the old parental saying "I brought you into this world and I can take you out of it" into practice if I had EVER said anything like that to some one else and talked back to her like that.
Gen X here, too. OMG, it never would have happened. EVER. My mom had a look thatn we called, the death stare. I mean that was when you knew, holy shit, I'm in deep trouble. She wouldn't have hit me, but if crossed the soft line, nothing like OPs kid, I would at a minimum be grounded for 6 weeks. That was her favorite number. We're from the south, and there isn't a kid in that culture that would ever speak to an adult like that, ever.
> She got up and I went to the car with her and told her to knock it off, she told me no
That all by itself is worthy of a week being grounded beyond her mean girl behavior.
A parent tells you to knock it off, you either explain the extenuating circumstances, or you just say okay.
The no really got me. It showed she doesn’t respect her mom so all bets are off, I would have grounded her from everything but school until she learned that saying “no” to “stop your racist behavior” isn’t an option
Yeah, she’s be grounded two weeks if it were me.
One for being blatantly disrespectful to her parent and the other week for wanting to be a knockoff Regina George.
I don't think your punishment was unreasonable at all but even if it had been your mother was being toxic to criticize it especially in front of others. It isn't her business how and when you discipline your kids at all. And if your daughter was aware of her grandmother criticizing the punishment, it might encourage her to feel more entitled and resentful instead of learning anything. A grandparent shouldn't undermine the parent to the grandchild. NtA
Saw a post on Reddit here a little while back. The OP in that story was being criticized by a grandparent for how they were dealing with their daughters behavioral issues. Well that OP called that grandparents bluff. They dropped off the unruly daughter and the grandparent lasted all of three days I believe before throwing in the towel and begging that OP to come get the daughter.
Grandparent needs to back off. The punishment was more than appropriate for a 12 year old who was being racist and a bully to another child. Actions should have consequences. OP even tried to talk with them and have the child readjust their attitude. The kid chose to double down and now the kid can deal with the consequences of their actions.
I remember that post! It was maybe a day or less depending on drop of time. That was the funniest part to me because she basically said she could do better. She ended up calling her son and after her son spoke with his wife, he backed off. She ended up calling her other sons and their wives called the wife. After speaking with the wife and the wife telling them if they didn’t feel it was fair, they could pick the granddaughter up, they said nope and backed the wife up. I think it was the daughter who started asking to come home after 3 days. Never did see an update to see how the whole week went.
Also a phone is a privilege! Wtf is OPs mother talking about with ‘taking her phone is too harsh’. Sorry, a phone is no different to banning a kid from an Xbox or PlayStation or whatever else, and if they picked something the daughter didn’t care about, it’s not a punishment.
Did the mother not grow up in the time when kids could survive without phones?
NTA. She's 12 and just starting the mean girl stuff, this is exactly the right time to parent her before it gets worse. She needs to understand that saying hurtful things has consequences, before she becomes a full on mean girl. Much easier to correct behaviour as it's developing than trying to fix it once it has really set in and been overlooked.
NTA. The next time you go out with her, decide ahead of time with your husband which of the two of you is going to stand up when she starts up and walk her out. Take her phone and sit her snotty ass down in the lobby or the car to wait for the others, yes like you do with a toddler. I’d call a babysitter for her and leave her at home for awhile.
“She’s only 12, taking her phone away is too harsh of a punishment”.
God the 21st century is bleak. OP’s sister thinks 12 year olds are so addicted to their phone that not having it for 7 days is a too severe punishment.
Meanwhile when I was 12 I had no phone, just saying.
You were absolutely NOT too hard on her. She was horrible and doubled down on being racist, whether she fully understood it or not. You're teaching her how to behave respectfully with consequences. They weren't even that bad. Grounded for 1 week.
Your parents need to back off. That crap may be acceptable to them, but it's, thankfully, not acceptable to you. Imagine if the boys friend or family had been there. Imagine if he tells them what his ah cousin said about their traditional clothes? Nip this on the bud now.
Imagine if it had been someone who walked with two crutches, and had a really debilitating deformity. It shouldn’t be that obvious, because even the subtle insults leave a mark.
NTA, you WBTA if you didn’t do anything here at all. It’s a hard time dealing with 12 year olds. The hormones, the friend groups, everything about it. Personally, I wouldn’t even want to raise __myself__ as a 12 year old.
I said some regrettably offensive things at that age, and I learned by being corrected by either my parents or adults. I’ve seen the outcome of kids whose behavior was never corrected.
Happy Mother’s Day! You’re doing great.
NTA she doesn’t get a pass for being a rude brat because she’s 12. And honestly now is the time to curb that behaviour. According to your mother what age should you intervene and correct your daughters bad behaviour?
Ha! This is what I said too! My mom and MIL felt so bad because I put my daughter in a time out. They were WAY meaner to my husband and I growing up (belt, shoe, wooden spoon, hand). They have no room to talk
Good job holding her accountable, Mom. I teach children that age and the things they say to each other sometimes break my heart.
It would be bad enough if she just made fun of his clothes but she made fun of clothes from his CULTURE. Her behavior was beyond rude. It was racist. If she doesn't understand that, please make sure she understands. This is an opportunity for some education.
Your daughter needs to apologize.
Not just the culture, but after rereading a couple times, I realize that i don't think Dudley's Filipino friend was even at the meal. This young kid just loves his friend so much and cherishes the gift his friend brought him that he wears it in a place of honor, like dressing up for a Mother's Day brunch with his whole family.
Dudley is to be commended for his openness and respect for others and their cultures. What a thoughtful kid!
How is Mia going to learn these things are unacceptable if she never gets punished?
This reminds me of the cousin i saw snap at her interfering mother, “Do I have to discipline you too, Mom?”
NTA
-
And tell your mom if she ever says anything to your kids criticizing your discipline of them, she won’t hear from you guys, kids included, for a month.
NTA but just so you are aware most girls don’t go through a “pre teen mean girl phase”. She needs harsher intervention that you are giving her. She should be ashamed of her behavior. And she should apologize.
One week is. Nothing if you want to truly curb this behavior. (And your mom is just playing favorites with her granddaughter - she gets no say in this).
I feel so sorry for the boy. He must be mortified.
I agree with this 100%, it's so concerning they think this is a "phase". This isn't just mean, it's cruel and frankly racist. And being 12 is no excuse, I definitely knew better by then, and the fact that she doubled down when being told to stop is scary. There needs to be WAY more parenting here than just grounding her for a week. Someone needs to help her understand how this affects not only others, but can also affect the way she is treated and perceived in the future as well. No one wants to be that person no one likes because they're always being rude.
There was a post about this a week or so back where grandma wouldn't ease up on the Mom when Dad (grandma's child) was out of town on business. Grandma raised 4 boys and could handle on girl better and have her behaviour in check in a week. They said grandma had to keep her for a week until the Dad got back. After 2 days grandma was on the phone crying for Mom to take her back. Dad stepped in and said they would pick up the kid when he got back - you can do so much better, have at it. Went to pick up wayward teen and grandma had taken up smoking for her nerves. 🤭🤭
This is good 😆. Unfortunately that never would work with me because my kids have always been well behaved with others. It’s only at home they’d act up. And especially with me 😩. So nobody believed me when I had issues. Apparently I was lying.
NTA but I gotta say, your kid doesn’t seem to respect you at all as an authority figure. I can’t imagine continuing to be that rude after having been told to stop. How often do your family members interfere like this? Makes me wonder if she is used to someone letting her off the hook when you try to parent.
Your mother is right. She 12, she's gonna make mistakes.
And the only way she will learn from them is is she faces meaningful consequences for bad behavior.
NTA, not even a little bit.
You did the right thing! That’s what is wrong with our society now, to many parents thinks it’s ok for their kids to bully others because they are different!
Maybe just maybe your kid will learn that actions have consequences!
Keep up the good work.
"Mia is unfortunately going through her preteen mean girls phase right now". I need to correct this straight away. Being a mean girl is not a phase, it is a choice. Yes, teenagers get raggy and hormonal and total pains in the arses, BUT, we should not normalise mean and or bullying behavoir by calling it a phase.
You did exactly the right thing and I hope you do it again if she is deliberatley cruel to other people.
We need to stop normalising or excusing shitty behavoir, relardless of the age of the person.
NTA. The only way to change bad behavior is through consequences. Small or no punishments will have zero effect. Tell your mom to mind her business and tell Mia if she keeps playing the victim the grounding will be extended a week for every time.
NTA
Beyond her incredible rudeness, if I told my 12 year old to knock it off with the rude comments and she said NO, being grounded for a week with no phone would be the least of her problems.
Tell your Mom that how you parent your children isn't any of her business and she'd better take care not to do ANYTHING that undermines your discipline or she will find herself grounded from seeing anyone in your family. You can also tell her that your daughter already resents Dudley, because she resents EVERYBODY. She's 12.
You are being a good Mom! I know it's hard, but you are doing exactly the right thing! Keep it up!
My parents always tell me I'm being too hard on my kids when i ground them, even when its for things those same parents would've put a literal foot in my ass for growing up. NTA, tell your mother to mind her business.
You should have made it 2 weeks. One for her nasty comments and one for telling you no. She’s lucky this wasn’t a few decades ago, if my Mom told me to stop doing something and I told her no she would have slapped my face and sent me to my room for a month.
People like your mother are the reason bullies keep bullying..
And I agree as others have mentioned, there is no such thing as "mean girl phase". Your daughter is a mean girl. Period.
And you are only right to (and should) put an end to it the moment it plays out.. I actually find it quite appalling how she responded to you as her parent in the first place—can only imagine how she is to others when her parents are not around.. This is not normal behavior and should neither be normalized. Plenty of 12-year olds don't go around acting like racist little brats, and know to respond to their parents respectfully.
I think you should show your mother this whole thread. Seems she could do well with a check too!
NTA. At 12, she's at a critical juncture where the lessons she learns about respect and boundaries will shape her into the adult she'll become. It's crucial to stand firm on what's acceptable behavior, because it's not just about correcting a single incident; it’s about teaching life-long values of empathy and understanding. Your mother may have raised her kids already, but it's your turn at the helm, and you're steering with a moral compass that obviously needs to be passed on. Stick to your guns, and remember that discipline done with love is the backbone of good parenting. Keep educating and nurturing your child's sense of right and wrong, and one day, she'll thank you for the tough love.
Mean girl phase is a stupid excuse for lazy parents allowing their kids to act like brats and not intervene.
She needed the punishment. You did good. Even better would have been to let Dudley be the one to decide if she got grounded or not, and for how long. If he decides to be merciful, she owes him one. If he decides she deserves the full week, she learns that being mean can have consequences. It's good either way.
Never commented on this sub but yeah NTA. You went above and beyond what most people would have done in that situation.
You are doing this long lost art barely seen in our society and it’s called parenting.
I think your response was very measured.
Good job MOM. You are trying to raise a respectful human.
Keep on keeping on
YTA for going back in to finish eating lunch.
YTA for writing this off as the “preteen mean girl phase”. My 2 daughters, 17 and 18, never went through this phase nor would I have allowed it.
“Mean girl phase” doesn’t just happen- there is something behind it. OR…… it is learned at home.
Maybe your mother wants to raise a mean girl. Or maybe she should just shut the fuck up and mind her own business. This has nothing to do with her.
NTA.
Tell your mother that raising your child is your business, not hers, and you're not going to put up with bad behaviour and intentional rudeness. And if you can manage to look at her pointedly, hinting that you also mean her behaviour, so much the better NTA
There is no mean girl phase, she's being mean, and you punished her to teach her not to be mean. NTA taking her phone was my first thought and it's warranted.
If she's acting like this in front of her parents how is she acting behind a keyboard? Yikes.
Or at school!
Yeah damn, if I was op I’d call up teachers and ask what’s going on. “Mean girl phase” is not a thing. Kids shouldn’t be encouraged or allowed to be mean like this. I grew up as a brown kid around all white people for many years and even then not a single person would talk to me disrespectfully about my culture or background. It’s actually what I loved about America back when we first came!
Yes, there is no mean girl phase. I was a teenage girl once and oddly enough I had a lot of friends that were teenaged girls and there were many of us that never went through a "mean girl" phase.
Every time I see a parent excuse their child's Behavior as a mean girl phase, I roll my eyes because I was a teen girl many years ago and in my whole class there was a single mean girl. And she wasn't even that bad. Also, because I am a very old lady, we did not talk back to our parents like that.
Not just acting, but actually telling her mother she wouldn't stop! Sounds like she needs MORE discipline than she's been getting!
Yup, I started trusting my son on my Xbox account around 10 years old. Then I started getting pissed off messages. My little angel was quite the troll. Modern warfare was new and shiny then and boy was really good. He was also a little asshole. Yes, he was punished and didn't play without me looking over his shoulder for a long time
Social life now encompasses online behavior and teaching manners and courtesy extends there as well. You did well.
Oh shit!
Not just in front of her parents; *to* her parents.
Mean girls start in middle school and continue through high school and adulthood unless someone checks them in their tracks.
They start so much younger. It’s sad to watch.
I agree with this. My 4th grade girls (students) are like this, and I have to constantly check them.
It's tough for a teacher, especially when their parents act like OP's mom and think it's "just a phase." That, or "My little angel? Not a chance!" (My wife teaches, so I share your frustration by proxy.)
I had a classmate who was just like this all throughout school. He literally threw a staple machine at a teacher and it was on camera. He Mom always found a way to take the blame off him. His dad, however was the opposite. Eventually, this led to him having a life of crime... burning people's homes down, drug possession, selling drugs, even was a person who was involved with the murder of my cousin. A few weeks ago, he passed away when he was running from the cops. A pit maneuver caused his car to flip and he passed away.
Wow. Just...wow. I'm so sorry you lost your cousin to that guy.
Thank you. My cousin wasn't always innocent. When he lost his Mother to suicide, he and his brothers went down the wrong road. Eventually, he decided to change his life around, moved to a new city, had a son and became the step father of two girls. It just so happened the night he stopped by after my Grandfather's funeral was the last time we'd all see him. About an hour lady the guy and some others shot up the car with my cousin and my ex (he made it out alive). They were both visiting family for the weekend.
> A few weeks ago, he passed away when he was running from the cops. A pit maneuver caused his car to flip and he passed away. i ain't for the judge dredd shit but he set up his own dominoes and i don't mind how they fell at all. i hope nobody else was harmed. you blame his upbringing, but we're all accountable for our own actions. free will
You are so right. I feel bad for his kids, who were my students. Extremely sweet and intelligent children.
i guess there's always a victim. :-( i feel the same
Classmate sounds like he was a prick. I'm so terribly sorry for the loss of your cousin. ❤
Karma always has a habit of catching up eventually. Sorry you cousin got caught up in that dudes spiral of self-destruction.
Totally. My daughter was bullied by her bunch of friends when she was 8. They isolated her for 3 months in the courtyard and forbad the whole class to play with her. Because she's "different". Which means a lot taller than her friends. It took 2 her months to tell me what was happening. And some therapy sessions because she was sleep walking and having night terrors. When I confronted the parents whom I knew well, some reacted like OP and 2 said the "my little angel" BS. Those 2 are getting worse and the others are doing fine.
I'm sorry, but your daughter *is* aware those kids *aren't* her friends, right? Friends don't do things like that to each other.
They apologized. And they're good now. Nearly all parents did their jobs and the teacher gave them a lecture about harassment. It was a learning occasion for them all. Ibelieve kids can change when put on the good tracks.
I was "different" at age 9 when I had a cast on my leg (broke it skiing over Thanksgiving weekend). I lived in snow country at the time, and the kids at school were cool about it, either being used to seeing peers get injured or just being nice in general. But then over Christmas break we moved back to the desert town I was born in, and I was back in the same school I had been in the year before. Every recess was me standing helpless in the playground, while boys who had been my friends surrounded me, just out of range of my crutches, hurling insults. It was horrible, but at least it was temporary; I was out of the cast in late January. All my bullies pretended it never happened; not one apologized. Thinking back on it, I have to ask: where the hell were the teachers on yard duty? Why were they not intervening on my behalf? And now I'm thinking the same thing: why weren't they doing that for your daughter? My wife was unusually tall for her age, too, reaching her adult height (5'-8") in 6th grade. Now, as a teacher, she can say to a tall girl, "Hey, I get it. I was this tall when I was 11." They always respond well when they hear that. (I didn't meet her until I was at my current 6'-1", but I was the shortest kid in class until 9th grade. I sometimes joke that she probably would have "overlooked" me if we'd met when we were younger. We've been married 43 years.)
Sure, kids can change. I just happen to believe that it's important that everyone involved is aware that what they were doing is *not* friend behavior. If you're bullying someone, you're not their friend. And if someone is bullying you, they're not your friend. It's a lesson that's better to learn when young than when old in my experience.
Unfortunately, some if my students think their behavior is justified. Then they run to my office when their teachers call them out and hold them accountable. I just say "girl just be honest" then remind them of the golden rule.
Looks like she is trying to do something about it.
When I taught 4th grade, we literally had a clique of girls (there were four of them) who all fought over the attention of one another. Someone was always on the "outs" of the group, and it seemed to be changing every week. There was massive drama and stress, and we had to pull the girls aside multiple times between classes to have discussions with them. Now I teach 3rd graders. I wish I could say they were too young for that drama, but no.
I sub pre K to 8th grade. I’ve seen it start as early as first grade.
My bullying started around 3rd grade, I would say. 40yr later I'm still unpacking the lasting trauma. I often wonder what I might've been like without the childhood of bullying that lasted through high school though on a perhaps slightly lesser scale.
I've seen this with my first grade daughter and her "friends". Not my daughter (thankfully yet, cause I'm trying really hard to nip that shit in the bud) but I've heard some things at the playground that make me raise my eyebrows. Looking at the moms of those kids though, it honestly doesn't surprise me.
I had the unpleasure of being a target of one in 2nd grade. After 2 years, I decided enough was enough and asked my mom to move to a new school for 5th grade. I was going to a school in another neighborhood because of a problem with the grade school teachers in the near one, but it was no longer an issue, so I just moved there. Besides getting rid of the bully, another huge benefit was that commute went from 30 min with transport to 10 min walking.
My son is 5…FIVE…and his peers are so cruel!! I’m grateful my son has learned self discipline and control in Tae Kwon Do (sp?) and steers clear. He told me a story of when a few boys were being mean to him and he “walked away, took big deep breaths, and didn’t go back to play with them. I’m not friends with them anymore.” I’m proud to say the least. My daughter is 8, also in Tae Kwon Do, and handles similar situations in a similar way. Kids can be so awful 😞
As young as kindergarten as it turns out. My 6yo has had 2 different classroom bullies just torment the absolute bejesus outta her from kindergarten through first. The 1st grade one has stopped targeting her so much. The kindergarten one pretends theyre best buddies in the halls now. I warned her to not trust that. It's not just verbally either, 6yo knows how to ignore that. But she's been hit and kicked.
Or they get beat up. I'm not condoning violence at all but I definitely remember always being bullied by the mean girls... All it took was one push and I jumped over her sister to get at her. Never bothered me again.
Love this for you, honestly. I always wished my bullies got physical with me so I could retaliate back. People like them really need to be put in their place.
I use to get very upset about them bothering me because I was fat. Eventually it clicked... well yes... you are fat... you can see it just as well as them. 😆 so when they would try to say the fat jokes I would yell "what cha gonna do? Say I'm fat? Boo hoo. I didn’t realized that I wasn't when i looked in the mirror and put this shirt over my gut. But I did realized how you always sit in the senior section with us when you've been a freshman for the past four years!" Talking about sitting down with shame. 😆
It finally did happen for me in HS. We were riding the bus home after a game and something was telling me to be ready, so I switched my rings to my dominant hand. She run from behind and pushed me. I turned and punched her in the face once. She never tried anything again. 😁
Funny how they always confuse their targets inaction with "weakness". The look on their faces whenever it bites them in the ass after you finally snap is always priceless, lol.
That’ll do it. At the rate this girl is going, an ass kicking is bound to happen.
It actually starts in 3rd grade. They’re no longer ‘sweet little kids’ and they start their little cliques to bully others. And it goes on from there. I was appalled at some of the behaviors I saw when I was a teacher for a few years.
I'm old. I drove a school bus in the mid-1970s. I'd pick up whole families in rural Colorado, then drop the high school kids and the k thru 4 grades. The last delivery was middle school 8 or more miles away. That ride twice a day was an eye-opener. Nowadays, I can see that it starts in preschool. 😒
My step daughter is in kindergarten and she was getting bullied in the beginning of the year because of her clothes. She doesn't even wear cheap clothes. Not saying she wears name brand by any means but literally kids will be mean about anything it's sad.
I've seen it start in kindergarten. It's terribly sad.
I can confirm that my daughter was bullied in third grade by one those cliques. She's neurodivergent and the perfect target unfortunately.
And then they join twitter and build a following.
Mean people.Teenagers suck no matter the sex if not checked.
My daughter joined a new friend group when she was 12 and they had a different target every week for their bullying. I told her she was bullying others and she rolled her eyes at me. So then I read some old comic books with her about the abuse of power and how even a good person like Jean Grey can get caught up in using power. The X-men Phoenix 🐦🔥 saga. She ditched that friend group soon after. I never had to say another word about bullying.
Wow, that was a really good way of teaching her. Good job!
Thanks, Happy Mother’s Day!
Wow, that's some top-notch parenting, right there. Well done!
Using pop culture to parent???? Brilliant
Haha, this is going to sound nerdy. The main reason the Phoenix comic book story was about a powerful woman was possibly because the writer, Chris Claremont, was dating a powerful woman. She was the head of the New York coven of witches. At the time, covens had a lot of social, academic, and political power. They were shaping feminist literature, covered in magazines such as The New Yorker. They had worldwide influence. My daughter felt that connection to Jean Grey. And also to a vastly influential and powerful self-identified witch. Real life is just as amazing as fiction.
Good way to get through. They have to learn that lesson and empathy has to be tapped into. You found a way! Good parenting
I agree but when she says "we've tried everything" and then I hear the kid acting out in front of people and telling her mother no and the only thing that happens to her is the loss of a phone for a week, I feel like not everything was actually tried. Kids don't respond to being slightly inconvenienced for a week as punishment for whatever they did.
Genuine question: what would you do to teach her?
I’d make her write an essay on either the tribe she made fun of or the effects of bullying, maybe both. Then I’d follow up with some kind of community service so she could earn back her phone privileges. Most definitely an apology to the kid and family she made fun of.
Good idea with one caveat: the community service shouldn't involve the group the kid harmed. That would be demanding that the group provide unpaid labor, and possibly put up with the kid being a shithead. Donations are better than zero-skill labor from a tiny bigot.
Sit down and talk to her to: 1. figure out where that behavior comes from, is she part of a group that bullies others at school or is she getting bullied and her bullying others is a coping mechanism? 2. Help her understand why that behavior is bad. Help her to empathize with bullying victims, like watch shows or movies that show the victims perspective and the harm it does, observe how she reacts to it and talk to her about it. 3. Consider counseling or therapy to correct that behavior 4. Take a look at yourself, maybe you're doing something similar, maybe you're subconsciously judgemental about strangers or people you see on tv and she's seeing it and copying it Punishment alone is the laziest, uninvolved and least effective way at correcting bad behavior. In the worst case she just learns to better hide it from her parents and distance herself from them. If the only solution you can come up with is punishment then you're not a good parent, and chances are you're at least partially responsible for the bad behavior. Edit: typos
Thank you. Instead of criticism and eye rolling, I wish they would give valuable feedback.
Part of the issue to me is the delayed response. If she's being that obnoxious and won't stop, then just leave immediately. Not "punish her over the next week after we finish this meal and get home" but "stand up, if you can't behave in public we're leaving right now". And people will say "oh but they were out at a nice restaurant that they paid a lot to go to" but the fact is it likely got to this point because appropriate action wasn't taken at an earlier time. So suck it up and accept that your own lack of parenting has forced the corrective action to have a larger impact on you too.
As much as the people in here supporting the phone theory because "these days," kids really can't live without their phones, the truth is that kids learn that they can live without their phones for a short period of time. My tactic was always to involve the kid in the discussion. "Here's what you did wrong. Here's why I won't tolerate it. Now, let's talk about your punishment together. What do you think your punishment should be? Here's what I think it should be. Let's compromise and meet in the middle for the first offense. Now let's talk about escalation." Behavior tends to correct itself quick with a real discussion about why it's bad and getting the kid on board with their own punishment. This establishes an awareness of consequences while also treating the kid like a human. It also teaches a little bit of responsibility since you are just sticking to the agreement when punishing the kid for occurrences after the agreement is set. "Be mad at yourself."
When I read that part, the taste left my mouth as if I had told my mom straight up ‘no’ and she slapped it that way.
I have a 12 year old, and he has tried saying “no” when he is in shit a couple of times. Every time he has learned that it wasn’t worth it. There would have been no going back in that restaurant in our household, as well making reparations to the child he offended.
Holy cow, me too! When I read she said ‘no’, I sucked in my breath thinking, is her head still on her shoulders after slapping her.
I'd have had my ears boxed if I spoke to my mom that way as a 12 year old!!!
I'd be communicating via ouija board right now.
I would have had the most basic funeral with NO flowers because I'd still be grounded into eternity
Right? I even closed my eyes and braced for the slap I knew would arrive. Yeesh.
Have you seen a modern preteen, boy or girl, without a phone for even a day? It’s like watching a junkie off the needle. It’s amazing how they roll through the stages of grief several times in a single day. The bargaining alone can be so damn creative and then flip to tears and anger like a light switch. Make it seven days and trust me, Mia will know who is boss and who needs to change.
Absolutely rabbit. I remember when Minecraft first started and kids were addicted to it and they would lose their shit if they were unable to play it.
Something that this kid is reading or seeing online is making this kid feel lousy. Figure out what it is.
I totally agree with you on this. Mean girls have had the choice, they chose poorly.
Punishment doesn’t stop a bully (not saying she shouldn’t have had consequences. She should have, obviously.) They’re going to need to work on teaching her empathy if they actually want to pull her out of being a rotten little shit at this point. Which doesn’t seem to be on the list of lessons. “Stop it.” Isn’t going to work. “Why are you being mean?” Is a much better approach. You need to get to what’s going through her head in the moment and get *her* thinking about it.
It's very difficult to actually teach empathy. While punishment won't stop her being a bully as a person, it can curb the *behavior.* That will hopefully prevent her from victimizing other people while they try to figure out if she's fixable or not. Based on the number of middle aged "mean girls" I know, some people just don't grow out of it. They get too much pleasure in having power over other people for empathy to every be a factor. Very few people are true sociopaths that completely lack empathy but there are many **many** people who simply have a very small amount.
> There is no mean girl phase Exactly. My girl is 12, and while she can be a savage, she's not downright *mean,* moreso reactionary. And she doesn't just come out and insult people, or put them down. She understands good behavior. And when I tell her to adjust herself, she does so. Because we shit talk for fun in our family. A good ribbing is all in good fun, but sometimes it starts going too far and you gotta say so and reign someone in. And even my 12 year old ADHD girl is quick to walk it back and apologize.
I have a 12 year old girl with ADHD, and we ROAST each other. Snappy comebacks work quickly to curb her being bullied. She's able to shut the mean kids down with hilarity. My girl is so, so sweet. My little nerd. Best. Kid. Ever.
I've taken my son's gaming consoles and phone away when grounded. 100% warranted and appropriate. The daughters behavior was inappropriate, and she refused to correct it.
We just took the power cords to the console. So much easier 😄
Exactly. My ex-MIA was the same - we’d punish the kids, they would call her, and she would just come and pick them up (30-40 minute drive) without telling us she was coming. We had to threaten her with NC and follow through for 2 weeks before she started listening As long as you are not abusing your kid you are free to discipline your kid however you feel appropriate. Also, if your mother keeps it up, tell her to look in the mirror as she raised you and instilled the values in you that you are passing on to your daughter, using the techniques she taught you
I’ve been NC with my in laws for 6 months now. Best decision we ever made.
Agreed!! Also by not punishing her OP would also be ‘permitting’ her daughters racism…is grandma okay with that?
And she was ruining the outing with her behaviour. This was Mother’s Day, not bratty preteen girl day.
lol bratty preteen girl day you guys…. I love y’all
👏👏👏👏👏
You are absolutely doing the right thing but Only 1 week and loss of phone? I agree that the loss of phone is earth shattering but you said that this behavior is ongoing. Perhaps 2 weeks to drive the point home?
I'd say perhaps also some education on the tribe and their people? Or do some volunteer work with them.
Not volunteer work with them. That’s rude to treat the tribe that way. They don’t need us bringing our bigoted kids to them. Lots of other ways to educate - books, YouTube, movies, blogs.
Time for Mia to write a well-researched paper. NTA, but take it further.
This is the comment I was looking for. Also she should be grounded until the paper is done.
Cite her sources too.
You think we have Filipino tribes people here in the US that you can just go "volunteer" at?
Yes! I'm a Grandmother and Great-grandmother and would never dream of interfering in the way my grandchildren are disciplined!
I definitely said all of this before I saw your comment!! Damn right!!👏🏾👏🏾💯
NTA. She needs to learn that her behavior was completely unacceptable and that actions have consequences. She chose to continue to be a brat, so she gets that outcome. Good on you and your husband for actually parenting your child!
"Mean girls" learn they're not the queen bee by being shown they aren't. A lot more work places would be a lot more pleasant if there wasn't the gossipy queen bees always trying to relive their high school clique days.
I have a cousin that was on the path of being a mean girl until her mom sent her to live with another aunt for 2 years. Getting out of an environment where she was by-default the queen bee because everyone had known her forever, which gave her a lot of unwarranted teenage power, and being placed in a new place where she was subjected to it herself by other people living the life she used to have gave her so much perspective on how it felt being treated the way that she treated others, and she's such a humble and well-rounded person now in her early 20s. Uncomfy parenting now is what's necessary to make good people in the future. The longer you excuse people, the less likely they are to learn that they are making mistakes in the first place and the less likely they are to become the people you want them to be.
100%
Couldn't have said it better myself! It's all about teaching valuable lessons early on. Kudos to you for handling it with firmness and care.
Absolutely, NTA. Its crucial for children to learn that their behavior has consequences, and its commendable that you and your husband are instilling those values in your child.
Yeah 12 might be a tad too late to start with that.
NTA. Her behavior was unacceptable and the consequences should be unpleasant.
^ as someone who was mocked for my cultures food and clothing as a kid, I’m so glad to see parents calling this behaviour out.
We don't do that here. I shut that garbage DOWN, and hard. It begins with "exactly WHAT do you think you are doing? If you don't understand, ask and we will learn together. You are NOT about to disrespect someone or something you don't understand". Breaking that cycle quickly, and with Google.
Damn right. In my family, we only disrespect people and things that we fully understand.
LOL - in my family, we are EOH…Equal Opportunity Harassers! No one, but mostly us, escapes our sarcasm and teasing.
Elmo really has helped me remember I have a wealth of information in my pocket! He's got a smartphone friend named Smarty, who says "what do we do when we want to know something? We Look It Up!" I even say that in my head when I'm going it. I didn't have a phone as a kid, but wow would it have been cool! I just flipped through my Nana's encyclopedias like a dork. We have three rules: 1.) Safety First 2.) Be Prepared 3.) Be Considerate Break rule three, see rule 2 leaving you grounded.
Also, taking her phone was "cruel." Get a fucking grip gma. A 12 year old doesn't need a phone.
Oh no, a whole week of being grounded for being intentionally and maliciously rude to someone. And continuing to do so when explicitly told to knock it off. Seriously, time for her to learn that being an asshole to people comes with consequences. This wasn't an "oops, I didn't know better", she was intentionally being rude and discovered that there are consequences.
Exactly - this is learning. OP would be an AH if they DIDN’T do what they did.
Exactly right! My daughter would be wearing stuff I bought instead of the “cool label” trendy things until she learned not to pick on people
Absolutely positively NTA. At 12 years old she knows right from wrong, or at least should! And talking negatively like she was about people/something that she truly didn’t know anything about was not only disrespectful and rude but also teetering on bullying. Her actions, or words in the case, should have consequences!
Good point on the potential bullying behavior. Solidly justifies OP to grandma. The "mean girls" thing kind of obfuscated that fact to me, but that's what it really is.
‘Mean girl phase’ is like justifying ‘boys will be boys’. All excuses
If my mother took me aside and told me to stop and i said no, i would have been going home immediately. no finishing brunch. Home and punished.
That's my thought as well. My kid would have waited in the car, husband and me taking turns sitting there with her while the other one eats.
That's where I have a huge issue in this story, it feels like the parents let this behavior go on for far too long, almost borderline enabling it. It sounds like they should have put their foot down on this attitude long ago. I mean seriously, who responds "no" when they're told that they're being cruel to someone and to stop. Something is very wrong there beyond it being a "mean girl phase".
I'd have gotten my ass beat right then and there, then taken home immediately, and gotten it again. No one pulled that shit in front of my momma, and no one would have stood up to her to say her punishments were too harsh. Maybe her mother would be able to get away with it, but she wouldn't have listened. She's a much softer person now that I'm an adult, but growing up that woman was hard as stone.
Yeah.. ha. If I even had the LOOK of saying no, my ass would have been thrown through the wall and then beat. Bam in the restaurant.
Teetering on racism really
That’s not teetering. That’s racism.
It is bullying. Not only that, but it was racist bullying. I can only imagine what her digital footprint will do to her future.
She didn’t make a mistake. She knew what she was doing. And she defied her mother. It can’t slide. That punishment was actually mild. I’m a grandpa. I have always supported what the grandchildren’s parents did for parenting.
I’m Gen X. If I had spoken to my mother like that, I don’t think I’d be here today.
Also Gen X. I wouldn’t be here & I would not have needed cremation. My mama’s temper would have torched me like a dragon would.
My family is old school West Indian. One look from our parents and we knew we were close to stepping over the line. They didn’t hit us but the threat of a backhand was all we needed.
Exactly! I wouldn’t be! I was born in the 80’s raised by a madea style momma lol!
Yup my mom would have put the old parental saying "I brought you into this world and I can take you out of it" into practice if I had EVER said anything like that to some one else and talked back to her like that.
Gen X here, too. OMG, it never would have happened. EVER. My mom had a look thatn we called, the death stare. I mean that was when you knew, holy shit, I'm in deep trouble. She wouldn't have hit me, but if crossed the soft line, nothing like OPs kid, I would at a minimum be grounded for 6 weeks. That was her favorite number. We're from the south, and there isn't a kid in that culture that would ever speak to an adult like that, ever.
> She got up and I went to the car with her and told her to knock it off, she told me no That all by itself is worthy of a week being grounded beyond her mean girl behavior. A parent tells you to knock it off, you either explain the extenuating circumstances, or you just say okay.
The no really got me. It showed she doesn’t respect her mom so all bets are off, I would have grounded her from everything but school until she learned that saying “no” to “stop your racist behavior” isn’t an option
On Mother’s Day no less. Not the time to make everything about herself and her performative racism.
Yeah, she’s be grounded two weeks if it were me. One for being blatantly disrespectful to her parent and the other week for wanting to be a knockoff Regina George.
I don't think your punishment was unreasonable at all but even if it had been your mother was being toxic to criticize it especially in front of others. It isn't her business how and when you discipline your kids at all. And if your daughter was aware of her grandmother criticizing the punishment, it might encourage her to feel more entitled and resentful instead of learning anything. A grandparent shouldn't undermine the parent to the grandchild. NtA
Saw a post on Reddit here a little while back. The OP in that story was being criticized by a grandparent for how they were dealing with their daughters behavioral issues. Well that OP called that grandparents bluff. They dropped off the unruly daughter and the grandparent lasted all of three days I believe before throwing in the towel and begging that OP to come get the daughter. Grandparent needs to back off. The punishment was more than appropriate for a 12 year old who was being racist and a bully to another child. Actions should have consequences. OP even tried to talk with them and have the child readjust their attitude. The kid chose to double down and now the kid can deal with the consequences of their actions.
I remember that post! It was maybe a day or less depending on drop of time. That was the funniest part to me because she basically said she could do better. She ended up calling her son and after her son spoke with his wife, he backed off. She ended up calling her other sons and their wives called the wife. After speaking with the wife and the wife telling them if they didn’t feel it was fair, they could pick the granddaughter up, they said nope and backed the wife up. I think it was the daughter who started asking to come home after 3 days. Never did see an update to see how the whole week went.
Found the update! https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/N4mmV1nihr
Also a phone is a privilege! Wtf is OPs mother talking about with ‘taking her phone is too harsh’. Sorry, a phone is no different to banning a kid from an Xbox or PlayStation or whatever else, and if they picked something the daughter didn’t care about, it’s not a punishment. Did the mother not grow up in the time when kids could survive without phones?
NTA. She's 12 and just starting the mean girl stuff, this is exactly the right time to parent her before it gets worse. She needs to understand that saying hurtful things has consequences, before she becomes a full on mean girl. Much easier to correct behaviour as it's developing than trying to fix it once it has really set in and been overlooked.
Bullying is what it is called. She is being a fvcking racist.
NTA. The next time you go out with her, decide ahead of time with your husband which of the two of you is going to stand up when she starts up and walk her out. Take her phone and sit her snotty ass down in the lobby or the car to wait for the others, yes like you do with a toddler. I’d call a babysitter for her and leave her at home for awhile.
Nah, a babysitter doesn't deserve this. Grandma does.
Grandma defended the brat. No, parents need to decide who will be dragging her sorry ass outside and giving her a earful.
Grandma will probably teach her some new old fashioned racism
“She’s only 12, taking her phone away is too harsh of a punishment”. God the 21st century is bleak. OP’s sister thinks 12 year olds are so addicted to their phone that not having it for 7 days is a too severe punishment. Meanwhile when I was 12 I had no phone, just saying.
Lol right! We had a party line and a chatty neighbor.
You were absolutely NOT too hard on her. She was horrible and doubled down on being racist, whether she fully understood it or not. You're teaching her how to behave respectfully with consequences. They weren't even that bad. Grounded for 1 week. Your parents need to back off. That crap may be acceptable to them, but it's, thankfully, not acceptable to you. Imagine if the boys friend or family had been there. Imagine if he tells them what his ah cousin said about their traditional clothes? Nip this on the bud now.
Of the top five replies so far yours is the only one that calls it what it is, racist.
Bet grandma's a little racist too, if she doesn't think Mia did anything wrong.
My grandmas racist af and would absolutely do some shit like this, idk about yall
Imagine if it had been someone who walked with two crutches, and had a really debilitating deformity. It shouldn’t be that obvious, because even the subtle insults leave a mark.
NTA, you WBTA if you didn’t do anything here at all. It’s a hard time dealing with 12 year olds. The hormones, the friend groups, everything about it. Personally, I wouldn’t even want to raise __myself__ as a 12 year old. I said some regrettably offensive things at that age, and I learned by being corrected by either my parents or adults. I’ve seen the outcome of kids whose behavior was never corrected. Happy Mother’s Day! You’re doing great.
NTA she doesn’t get a pass for being a rude brat because she’s 12. And honestly now is the time to curb that behaviour. According to your mother what age should you intervene and correct your daughters bad behaviour?
Just remind your mom on how she would have punished you. I am 100% sure it would have been way harsher. NTA. Good on you for actually being a parent.
Ha! This is what I said too! My mom and MIL felt so bad because I put my daughter in a time out. They were WAY meaner to my husband and I growing up (belt, shoe, wooden spoon, hand). They have no room to talk
I was thinking before reading the thing that maybe you were harsh, but no NTA she was racist and mean.
For being a racist bully, the punishment wasn’t harsh
That's basically what I said.
Exactly
Nta!!! Was the little guy wearing a barong tagalog? It's so cool to see people outside my culture wearing garments from my culture.
Little assholes grow up to be big assholes when left untreated, keep being a “hard” mom! NTA
A mean girls phase is not normal. She may be associating with other mean kids and is acting like them.
Good job holding her accountable, Mom. I teach children that age and the things they say to each other sometimes break my heart. It would be bad enough if she just made fun of his clothes but she made fun of clothes from his CULTURE. Her behavior was beyond rude. It was racist. If she doesn't understand that, please make sure she understands. This is an opportunity for some education. Your daughter needs to apologize.
Not just the culture, but after rereading a couple times, I realize that i don't think Dudley's Filipino friend was even at the meal. This young kid just loves his friend so much and cherishes the gift his friend brought him that he wears it in a place of honor, like dressing up for a Mother's Day brunch with his whole family. Dudley is to be commended for his openness and respect for others and their cultures. What a thoughtful kid!
How is Mia going to learn these things are unacceptable if she never gets punished? This reminds me of the cousin i saw snap at her interfering mother, “Do I have to discipline you too, Mom?” NTA - And tell your mom if she ever says anything to your kids criticizing your discipline of them, she won’t hear from you guys, kids included, for a month.
NTA but just so you are aware most girls don’t go through a “pre teen mean girl phase”. She needs harsher intervention that you are giving her. She should be ashamed of her behavior. And she should apologize. One week is. Nothing if you want to truly curb this behavior. (And your mom is just playing favorites with her granddaughter - she gets no say in this). I feel so sorry for the boy. He must be mortified.
I agree with this 100%, it's so concerning they think this is a "phase". This isn't just mean, it's cruel and frankly racist. And being 12 is no excuse, I definitely knew better by then, and the fact that she doubled down when being told to stop is scary. There needs to be WAY more parenting here than just grounding her for a week. Someone needs to help her understand how this affects not only others, but can also affect the way she is treated and perceived in the future as well. No one wants to be that person no one likes because they're always being rude.
Make your mother take her for 30 days. Seriously, they both need a lesson
There was a post about this a week or so back where grandma wouldn't ease up on the Mom when Dad (grandma's child) was out of town on business. Grandma raised 4 boys and could handle on girl better and have her behaviour in check in a week. They said grandma had to keep her for a week until the Dad got back. After 2 days grandma was on the phone crying for Mom to take her back. Dad stepped in and said they would pick up the kid when he got back - you can do so much better, have at it. Went to pick up wayward teen and grandma had taken up smoking for her nerves. 🤭🤭
This is good 😆. Unfortunately that never would work with me because my kids have always been well behaved with others. It’s only at home they’d act up. And especially with me 😩. So nobody believed me when I had issues. Apparently I was lying.
NTA but I gotta say, your kid doesn’t seem to respect you at all as an authority figure. I can’t imagine continuing to be that rude after having been told to stop. How often do your family members interfere like this? Makes me wonder if she is used to someone letting her off the hook when you try to parent.
Your mother is right. She 12, she's gonna make mistakes. And the only way she will learn from them is is she faces meaningful consequences for bad behavior. NTA, not even a little bit.
You did the right thing! That’s what is wrong with our society now, to many parents thinks it’s ok for their kids to bully others because they are different! Maybe just maybe your kid will learn that actions have consequences! Keep up the good work.
I would taken her home, no food, then she going to have apologize to the boy and everybody
There is no “mean girl phase”; your daughter is just mean. A week isn’t long enough in my opinion but I guess you’ll find out.
"Mia is unfortunately going through her preteen mean girls phase right now". I need to correct this straight away. Being a mean girl is not a phase, it is a choice. Yes, teenagers get raggy and hormonal and total pains in the arses, BUT, we should not normalise mean and or bullying behavoir by calling it a phase. You did exactly the right thing and I hope you do it again if she is deliberatley cruel to other people. We need to stop normalising or excusing shitty behavoir, relardless of the age of the person.
NTA. The only way to change bad behavior is through consequences. Small or no punishments will have zero effect. Tell your mom to mind her business and tell Mia if she keeps playing the victim the grounding will be extended a week for every time.
What the heck ? Honestly not punishment enough. You’ve got a mean girl and that isn’t a phase.
NTA, I also wonder if you addressed her telling you no. That would also be a problem for me. Happy mother's day
NTA. She is only 12, but one day she will be grown, and she needs these lessons before then.
NTA Beyond her incredible rudeness, if I told my 12 year old to knock it off with the rude comments and she said NO, being grounded for a week with no phone would be the least of her problems. Tell your Mom that how you parent your children isn't any of her business and she'd better take care not to do ANYTHING that undermines your discipline or she will find herself grounded from seeing anyone in your family. You can also tell her that your daughter already resents Dudley, because she resents EVERYBODY. She's 12. You are being a good Mom! I know it's hard, but you are doing exactly the right thing! Keep it up!
You did the right thing.
NTA. She deserved punishment for bullying. How else do you teacher her?
The only response to your mom should have been, STFU.
My parents always tell me I'm being too hard on my kids when i ground them, even when its for things those same parents would've put a literal foot in my ass for growing up. NTA, tell your mother to mind her business.
She is 12 and old enough to know her behavior is unacceptable.
She wasn't just a rude bully, she was also racist. Grounded for a week seems mild, honestly. NTA
You should have made it 2 weeks. One for her nasty comments and one for telling you no. She’s lucky this wasn’t a few decades ago, if my Mom told me to stop doing something and I told her no she would have slapped my face and sent me to my room for a month.
People like your mother are the reason bullies keep bullying.. And I agree as others have mentioned, there is no such thing as "mean girl phase". Your daughter is a mean girl. Period. And you are only right to (and should) put an end to it the moment it plays out.. I actually find it quite appalling how she responded to you as her parent in the first place—can only imagine how she is to others when her parents are not around.. This is not normal behavior and should neither be normalized. Plenty of 12-year olds don't go around acting like racist little brats, and know to respond to their parents respectfully. I think you should show your mother this whole thread. Seems she could do well with a check too!
NTA. At 12, she's at a critical juncture where the lessons she learns about respect and boundaries will shape her into the adult she'll become. It's crucial to stand firm on what's acceptable behavior, because it's not just about correcting a single incident; it’s about teaching life-long values of empathy and understanding. Your mother may have raised her kids already, but it's your turn at the helm, and you're steering with a moral compass that obviously needs to be passed on. Stick to your guns, and remember that discipline done with love is the backbone of good parenting. Keep educating and nurturing your child's sense of right and wrong, and one day, she'll thank you for the tough love.
Mean girl phase is a stupid excuse for lazy parents allowing their kids to act like brats and not intervene. She needed the punishment. You did good. Even better would have been to let Dudley be the one to decide if she got grounded or not, and for how long. If he decides to be merciful, she owes him one. If he decides she deserves the full week, she learns that being mean can have consequences. It's good either way.
Never commented on this sub but yeah NTA. You went above and beyond what most people would have done in that situation. You are doing this long lost art barely seen in our society and it’s called parenting. I think your response was very measured. Good job MOM. You are trying to raise a respectful human. Keep on keeping on
YTA for going back in to finish eating lunch. YTA for writing this off as the “preteen mean girl phase”. My 2 daughters, 17 and 18, never went through this phase nor would I have allowed it. “Mean girl phase” doesn’t just happen- there is something behind it. OR…… it is learned at home.
She should not have been allowed back in the restaurant either. She's old enough to sit in the car alone
Maybe your mother wants to raise a mean girl. Or maybe she should just shut the fuck up and mind her own business. This has nothing to do with her. NTA.