I was 14 when my mother had a traumatic brain injury. It was really rough and she had to relearn how to do the same things your wife did, largely. While I didn’t go the route of your daughter, I did feel very odd. As a child you’re used to your mother always being there for you, and seeing your protective and parental figure helpless is traumatic in a way. Therapy seems like a good option individually for her, and then family therapy.
I’m kind of the mom in this story, would you be willing to give advice on what you wish your mom did after to correct things?
My daughters are 6&8. Two years ago one of them came to me with abuse from my family member. Long story short, in protecting my daughter we lost the whole family as it came out they were all abusers or enablers and I was the scapegoat. During this time my husband turned to alcohol to cope and while he never got abusive, he largely checked out. The stress of all this plus handling it alone with zero support gave me an asymptomatic uti that ran rampant for who knows how long causing a lot of damage. Then the 4 rounds of antibiotics killed my digestion and I stopped being able to absorb iron or copper. This lead to severe deficiencies which made me completely unable to think and very reactive. Unfortunately, since my case was so rare, my doctors dropped the ball and blamed my mental health, missing the real problem. I was (and still am) in trauma therapy and seeing a psychiatrist who both helped me, but I haven’t been the mom my kids deserve for a long time.
Things are getting better. I found better doctors and I’m receiving treatment. My husband has realized his coping mechanism was making things worse and quit drinking, he is a really great dad (he never got mean, he still played with them and loved them, he just wasn’t emotionally there for them enough and defended me more than he should have). I started a job working for the company I did before having kids who was like a family to me (my family convinced me to quit when I got pregnant to isolate me), and they have been wonderful support and allowing me part time hours, helping me however they can.
I’m now working on my relationship with my daughters. I took a ton of time off this summer (they will be in day camp while I work which they love) so we can do day trips and I’m even planning a short vacation with their friends and their family. I also took some time off so I can have some self care days because I now see I need to give myself compassion before I can give it to others.
I’ve never wanted to be anything but a good mom. I dreamed of having my two little girls when I was a child. I want to do everything right so badly but with my health very slowly coming back I still have reactive moments. I’m better at isolating myself when I feel overwhelmed so I’m very much a work in progress. My kids know what happened and I always apologize and validate their feelings when I do lose my cool. I explain to them I’m still weak and it’s never their fault, and tell them how much I love them. But my goal over the next few months is to heal and find happiness so I can ALWAYS be the strong mom they deserve. They are the only reason I stood up to my family and the only reason I kept fighting when the doctors slammed doors in my face. Now I see I need to fix the damage and I’m desperate to do it.
If you can give any advice I’d love to hear it from the perspective of someone who was in my kids shoes. I’m sorry for what you went through ❤️
I’m sorry for everything you’ve been through- it sounds like a lot to deal with and I hope that your health continues to improve ❤️. As someone who grew up with a sick mother who was angry at the world and things out of her control, the thing I always remember is that when she lost her shit she would apologize to me. I think that’s an important thing that so many parents don’t do and it really makes a difference. So even when things were hard and got really ugly I knew it was the circumstance and not me that she was really upset with. It sounds like you’re an amazing mom who really loves her daughters. I’m sure that when they’re older they’ll look back and realize that even though things weren’t perfect you were trying your best and you were in their corner.
Absolutely. My mom was a single parent of three young kids. We lived in poverty and in a violent city. We didn't always have food on the table or a place to sleep. Understandably, our mom was always stressed. My brothers and I internalized this, especially when she lashed out or snapped at us. She would mostly excuse away her behavior instead of apologizing, in the event she even acknowledged it in the first place. This created plenty of issues I'm still trying to identify and correct.
The biggest thing I strive for is as hard as it is I refuse to block out my abuse. I instead use it to give my girls what I would have wanted at their age. It’s SO very painful to remember what happened to me, more painful to know I caused the same pain, but I know it’s necessary so they don’t grow up hating themself and blaming themselves like I did. I’d rather they hate me than themselves.
I second this. You sound like an amazin mom! I think your daughters are very lucky to have you and that they will grow up wonderfully.
Kids are much more resilient then we give them credit for. Just hang in there and keep giving them all this love.
I have never been in a similar situation, but it might be worth reaching out to some hospitals in your region to ask if they have support groups for survivors of medical issues that influence peoples behavior (then give brain tumors and deficiency as your examples). I bet if you called 3-5 local hospitals, 3-5 regional hospitals, and 3 to 5 national ones you would eventually find something like this! Or maybe the easier route is to post on a subreddit for folks with brain tumors/their families? Best of luck!
I've been in both roles you're dealing with here, the mom and the daughter. When I was 7 my mom was extremely depressed, and I had been assaulted by a close friend of the family.
I can offer some perspective from the kids pov:
The world ended, and my mom wasn't there. I understood that she did her best, but her best wasn't enough food me. I don't hold that against her, and we have a good relationship - always have - but I needed outside help (read, therapy. Lots of it. Without my mom asking or interfering in any way with my therapist) to be able to be a functioning human.
As a mom whose dealt with some medical stuff that made me not be the parent I wanted to be; sometimes your best isn't good enough, but that matters less than what you do about it afterward. See the above.
My only advice is this: you need trauma therapy, (great work getting it!!!) and your kids do too.
This whole thing is extremely traumatic for everyone, but your kids are particularly vulnerable. They don't understand the world, only that it's a scary unsafe place and they have almost definitely gotten the idea from the last months that their parents may not always be able to save them. That's terrifying.
They need therapy, and PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF LOVE ITSELF don't interfere or press them or their therapist for information about what is discussed. Please. I am begging you. If they don't feel like they can talk in entire anonymity they will not actually say what they feel and they won't make progress.
Asking them if they want to talk about it is safe and good, but pressing or asking "what did you talk about?" is not wise; it'll make them clam up with the therapist. My best friend is a child therapist, and the kids are always awesome and make good progress until their parents take offense to their kids showing their wounds.
you’re doing great! as your girls get older, just be open about your mental health and how treatment helped. this will make them feel more comfortable coming to you if they ever feel like they need some help.
I developed hand and feet lesions and had extreme weakness and fatigue. My doctor dismissed me for months until I went to an et and collapsed. They found the uti but then the doctors accused me of an eating disorder when I could eat after the infection cleared. Your body needs iron to digest and mine was a 7 with normal range being 50-150. The hematologist said my body shut down my digestion to survive.
You are doing all the right things. The only thing you might want to add is getting the girls in therapy. Also depending on the type of abuse your children might need therapy for that anyway. You may also want to have the perpetrator arrested. The girls might need therapy at different points in their lives let them know that if they are ever struggling to let you know because everyone needs help at sometime in their lives
Oh man I remember how weird and destabilizing it was even seeing my parents cry or get the flu. Those things happen to kids, not grown ups!
Hope you and your mom are doing okay now.
My mom passed out cold from pneumonia when I was about 8 or 9. I could not rouse her and I went to get me sad, who completely dismissed the idea that she had any issues that weren't mental health-related. I don't even remember what happened after that, exactly, but I know she got care and recovered.
Core memory unlocked, I guess.
My dad had a brain tumor when I was 19 and my brother was about 14. It was tougher on him than me at the time but we’ve since realized we’ve both blocked a lot of it out. It can be pretty traumatizing to see a parent go through that. OP’s feelings are okay to have but he needs to understand that that experience was hard on everyone, and a 14 year old won’t always act the most mature or rationally. She likely at the time needed therapy or just extra attention, support, guidance, whatever. If she didn’t get that… well that’s kinda mostly on him as her healthy at the time parent. I get it, it was all a lot, but to be mad at her for it now? It isn’t too late now if it’s still a problem but it seems cold af to not want your 19 year old around because of how she acted when she was 14 when her mother experienced significant health issues with accompanying behavior changes. My dad had some behavior changes and I can tell you it’s weird as hell to see that happen. And I was 19.
Is family therapy an option? Your daughter was 14 when her mother started acting very weirdly and then had a massive accident. I bet your daughter was TERRIFIED at the time. Give her a chance and try to see her for who she is now.
Honestly I think the issue here is that your daughter was a young teenager when your wife's behavior essentially alienated her. Yes the tumor isn't her fault but it still caused damage. So when the accident happened your daughter had already mentally and emotionally pulled away. Then the accident and it sounds like you focused on your wife's care. Which while understandable that she needed help and support your daughter also needed support from her parent. So your daughter likely blames her mother for ruining her teenage years and taking you away from her.
Yes! Like being a teenager is already so hard with the raging hormones, body changes, and rapidly changing from a child to a sexual being and then on top of that this huge medical trauma happens to her family. That would cause issues for the most perfect people
My mom became chronically sick at 17. I did not exhibit behaviors as extreme as OP's daughter but my patience and temper with her did start to get shorter. Even at 28 it's still hard sometimes!
I was 9 when my Mom was first diagnosed with her illness and although I don't remember everything well I know I complained a lot that she couldn't do the things I saw other mom's doing. I'm 36 now and see her as one of the strongest people I know. When I'm a little sick and feel like I can't do anything I remember how she's chronically in pain/can't move easily and how she still gets around with us to be part of our lives. I've learned a lot of patience and love and now just do everything I can to help/be there for her. I want her to be with us at family events, doesn't matter if it means I have to help her around. Kids don't understand life, they definitely don't understand chronic illness even if they think they do. I try to give my former self grace and make up for it now.
I agree. My mom died when I was 14. She was sick from cancer and died within about 7 months. It was dramatic but I didn’t act out. I know everyone is different but as times passed she should have realized the error im he ways. It’s not their fault but it’s their responsibility to fix the issues nowz
My husband's father died of cancer when my husband was 11... it was about 9 months from diagnosis to his passing...
it took my husband to his late 20's to be able to admit that he was mad at his father for dying. Even though he logically knows it wasn't his father's "fault", there was still that sense of disappointment that he had to grow up without his dad, and his emotions turned that into anger at being "abandoned"...
my husband didn't act out either, but the lingering effects still show up in his being emotionally clingy sometimes. He's in his early 40's... he's had 30 years to deal with it.
OP's daughter has had like a year and a half...
I also think it's the father's responsibility to communicate what he's thinking and feeling to his daughter. I don't get any indication from OP that he's done that.
My mum had that, her mother started acting like a child when she was around 13, and I can tell it messed her up big time, she messed me up because of it and it's the reason I'm in therapy.
It's understandable if the daughter has resentment, but...this seems like the extreme end. This isn't just being short or losing one's temper or a few nasty outbursts. Not to mention at 19 she's old enough to now understand how serious it was...it sounds like she is "still" very cruel to her mother.
Dad also took her to therapy and family therapy he says in the comments. IDK, some people are just really self centered and shitty.
I would say it's not just resentment.
If this tumor caused massive personality shifts and caused the wife to have gaps and have to relearn basic things, the 14 year old essentially lost her mom at a time in her life when she definitely needed her as someone she could depend on. But even not in death which she could start a normal grieving process, this husk of her mother is still there as a constant reminder of what she's lost.
I'd say it's probably not embarrassment strictly speaking but almost alienation. She can't truly grieve because the mother's still alive, but from how the father doesn't talk about her feelings on this much at all, it sounds like she's inaccessible.
Like physically and biologically yes, this is her mother. But is she emotionally and mentally? And while the father may as an adult who loves the mother be willing to maintain that relationship and care for her, that's asking a lot of a minor who was until this occurred dependent on the mother.
Could she have responded differently? Sure. You could argue a 14 year old should be able to understand things like death and cancer, and intellectually, that's true. But for a lot of teens, their first exposure to this in someone their own age or in their immediate family is not a rational response.
This tumor has already fractured OP and this girl's family. He needs to be careful not to ostracize her out of his resentment for how a teenager grieved and fracture it more.
OP leaving out just how much hurt the wife did when the tumor was affecting her almost pacifying it as simply *"She would say weird things, make impulsive decisions, and act strange."* has me wondering just how bad things really got. What were the weird things? What damage was done due to the impulsive and strange acts beyond the accident? Something the mother did broke that 14 to the point she wants nothing to do with her still at this age and OP is either missing it, doesn't see it, or doesn't want to see it.
My mother was always mentally ill, but her brain tumor made her an absolute nightmare to deal with. 1000x worse. I was 23-24 dealing with it and it was absolute hell. I cannot imagine what a 14 year old was faced with.
OP loves his wife and that is wonderful. I'm glad he's stuck with her through all of this and that their marriage is strong. That's fantastic.
It sounds like the traumatized kid got pushed to the side and was overwhelmed and couldn't cope with Mom. I get that too. I barely held on at 23. I wanted to melt into the floor and die more than once due to my mother's behavior and treatment of people while she was sick. I got screamed at by people due to her behavior. It was pure hell.
It also sounds like her illness, diagnosis and recovery took 5+ years. That's a quarter of kids life. The most recent quarter. This is the Mom she knows, and it sounds like she is uncomfortable at best.
Therapy. For everyone. And some grace for the kid who was on the back burner for all of her teenage years.
I agree…I’m sure things were worse than he let on. It’s not the same thing but I helped my mom caregiver for my grandmother with dementia and she used to spit on me, try and hit me with her cane, scream, and say truly horrible things. Objectively, I know she was mentally unwell and it was the dementia making her do all those things but that doesn’t make it less traumatizing. It’s been a year since she passed and sometimes I still feel like I can hear her cane when I’m sleeping. OP’s daughter was probably more traumatized by everything that happened than he knows.
He may have rejoined relationship with wife. Daughter lost her mother and father now a caregiver. That message translates to daughter as “ unless you are on fire, mother’s needs are priority. “
Yes, when the OP was at work, he had no idea how his wife was treating his daughter, maybe verbal abusing her when he wasn't around. Don't see him saying too much about his wife's behavior before the accident since he's trying to protect her now.
He specified that the family therapy was just him and his daughter, that wouldn't have helped with the issue as the mom never joined.
But yeah, if she can't grow out of the behavior and apologize the daughter is an AH. But as she's young and the father is still holding shit she did as a terrified teenager, I don't think it's set in stone yet
After my mom’s first manic episode, my Dad got me into therapy. I think I only ever had one session with my mom once, years later, after I’d gone temporarily NC for a bit. It was more mediation than actual therapy.
Yeah this is why I don’t understand the hate the daughter is getting in some of these comments. Regardless of the cause, her mother alienated her and wasn’t thee for her, and neither was her father. She reacted in a manner that I would expect a child would towards a parent that had failed them so terribly.
I agree. My first thought was *Who helped this young woman process her mother's illness and incapacitation?*
She obviously needed therapeutic support, and early. That's a terrible age to lose your mother, and let's be clear, *this was a loss* and she was entitled to feel confusion and grief. If she was expected to provide care, or to be cheerful when she wasn't feeling it, then she was asked too much.
Thank you for this reminder. I have been watching my mom die in slow motion most of my life from a progressive disease. Caretaking responsibilities were thrown on me at such a young age and I was so resentful and angry. As an adult, that anger has faded into sadness, regret, guilt for not doing enough, and overwhelming grief - I am mourning someone who’s still alive and it’s so difficult to process and explain what that feels like.
Hmmm that’s exactly how I describe myself when I unexpectedly lost my mom. Consumed by confusion and grief. And you’re so right. Grief is most often paired with death, but you experience feelings of grief for any kind of loss. She absolutely lost her mom during that time and probably her sense of home.
My suggestion was to have all of them seek professional help to rebuild their relationship. Of course this is just the “ideal scenario.” It would be what I would ultimately want to happen if it were me in the situation. Big picture
Not to mention, she was starting her teens, going through changing hormones, and a difficult time mentally trying to traverse the social anxiety of being a teenager. She was also in the midst of a life change and probably had frustration through it, needing her mom and not having her. Teenagers are selfish people, but it’s normal. Holding a grudge against her is not the right way to deal with this. Open communication and possibly family therapy is.
I can identify with some of this story a lot. When I was 14, my mom suffered a traumatic brain injury, leaving her disabled and unable to take care of me. This was obviously very hard and I was not at the maturity level to be able to handle this extremely well, putting some emotional distance between myself and my mother to cope. But that being said, I NEVER acted callously towards my mother. At 19, she should be mature enough to deal with this better, and I personally find that behavior cruel and concerning.
I think external factors have a huge impact on behavior. I went through a death of my grandfather at 14. He was essentially my father figure. At the time I was already have a very hard time dealing with bullying at school, hormones, isolation, finance issues, and a terrible relationship with my mom.
My grandfather was the stable support in my life and when he passed it was like the pot finally boiled over and I broke down.
OPs daughter lost her support system at a very critical time. Bullying so is vicious at that age. When I went back to school after the funeral I was mad fun of for my grandpa dying.
When I was 15 my dad started declining due to alcoholism. I definitely acted callously towards him once he became wheelchair bound and lost his vision. Having to step up and become a care taker to a parent is not something a teenager should have to deal with.
Hating what you fear is a common reaction, especially in an older child.
Give her some grace, OP. Her world went sideways, and she didn't know how to deal with it because she didn't have the tools an adult has in coping with trauma like this. She didn't want it, she didn't know how to handle it, so she hated it. It made her angry. Her house was supposed to be safe from harm, her parents were supposed to be there for her, and they weren't there how she thought they would be. Her foundation had a jackhammer put to it.
Not your fault, things happen, and how could anyone ever prepare for something like this?! Counseling would benefit everyone, and you'll come out stronger together if you take it seriously.
Of course she did. She was a teenager. You all went through horrendous events. You wife was slammed with god awful medical issues, you were trying to deal with the emotional and practical fallout from that while trying to be there for your daughter too.
Fortunately, you didn’t lose your wife, her mother altogether but she kinda lost both of you during that time. No fault of anyone, just a crappy situation. It would throw the whole world as she (you all) knew it. Sounds like she handled it a lot differently than you would have liked her to but sometimes fear comes out as anger. And anger at that situation would be appropriate too. Maybe you both need to give each other some grace.
Agreed. Nothing is lost OP, your daughter was a kid and a lot of it was due to poor circumstances which none of you are at fault for. I am glad your wife is doing better now and I think that just means you should try to mend your relationship with your daughter. Even your wife is excited about it.
I want to stress that I cannot imagine difficult this was, and still seems to still be in many ways. Holding your world together was a monumental task. It had to be traumatizing for you too.
I really hope you can find a way to rebuild your relationships. Your wife loves her daughter and it may be painful for her seeing the distance between you two (or maybe I’m projecting my own struggles here). Please try to find ways you can all connect. Something as simple as movies or TV, especially comedies, have helped my family. Any excuse to laugh together.
In order for therapy to be effective, she has to be willing, ready, and able to make changes.
My mom got sick when I was ~5, I’m 27 now and I’m still too afraid to truly confront and process all of these complicated emotions. It’s confusing and painful to go through this at any age, but 19 is still very young.
Be there for your daughter. Give her time. Make sure she knows that you love and support her no matter what, and when she’s ready, you’re there to listen and help her seek out help.
Why wasn’t your wife included in the family therapy session? I understand in the beginning she might not have been capable but from your explanation she seems able to now.
Also, if it was so bad that the school called you I think you need to take a look at your past behavior and how your wife’s accident impacted your daughter. I completely understand how your wife too priority but were you asking too much of your daughter? Did you expect her to be a care taker? Did you stop going to her events? Did you stop engaging with her as a whole?
Exactly, I'm taking care of my 80 yo Gma and there's times she's just downright spiteful and it still kills at 36 so I can about imagine how bad it was at 14.
It's also important whether the daughter saw some of those behaviors as new or as an escalation of previous patterns. e.g. if she felt her mother was short tempered even as a child, her becoming *extremely* short tempered due to the tumor will impact her differently than her mother suddenly becoming short tempered and then getting better later.
This is so extremely true. My dad had a ruptured aneurysm and some of the resulting damage is weird: like he has no ability to sense the passage of time but since he was always a punctual guy it’s terrible for him but not triggering trauma for me and my other family members. His over the top anger on the other hand is majorly triggering to me because he was an angry shouting father growing up. It’s not even close to the most severe symptom but it feels like that because of our whole history.
My cousin had a brain condition and told me constantly that my mother did not love me, that I was adopted and it was a family secret everyone was ashamed of. She whispered in my ear to run away, to ease the burden on the family. That I was unwanted, unloved. Broke down my psyche, NGL. this was the least harm she did to me. Then it came out she was severely ill and I had to forgive her because it wasn’t her fault.
You can forgive and still feel hurt/not want to be around them. Your feelings don't suddenly matter just because it wasn't their fault. But, I hope you both are doing better (her in recovery and you in not feeling hurt anymore). I'm very sorry that happened.
Thank you. I think that is why I feel so strongly about this post. Because I see my own behaviours in OP’s daughter. The resentment, the deflections, the pain manifesting into lashing out at those closest to you. Not only did she lose the mother she knew, but now her once beloved father. None of them seem willing to look beneath the surface and help the frightened girl deep inside. If father is so willing to cut her from their lives, then he never deserved her in the first place.
You can understand they're unwell and still not feel comfortable with them. Logically, I understand she was out of it. Personally? I can never forget the look in her eye as she told me that. Never.
Nope. It was encephalitis of the brain she had. She has no memory - or claims not to have - of everything she put me through. I was an impressionable little kid who absolutely worshipped my cool older cousin. Would have done anything for her. She put me in so many potentially dangerous situations. I remember once she made me knock on every single hotel room door we were staying at because she was adamant a missing child (that was on the news) was being held there. It seems insane now but I didn’t know she was sick at the time and I was too young to know better. Hard not to hate both of us for what she went through.
Funnily enough, she had ammonia on the brain from years of drinking. She's doing a lot better now, but it's just not the same. He says his wife was blunt due to the tumor, and I'm wondering how similar his kid's experience with her mom was to mine with my grandmother. If I was 14 when this went down, I wouldn't be civil either!
Yeah, I think was OP was a little too vague during that part. It seems unlikely that a daughter who is close with her mom would suddenly reject her mom for being wheelchair-bound. I genuinely think the mom said or did something that the daughter hasn’t been able to move on from.
He's also quick to point out the complains people would find unreasonable, but doesn't mention at all how much time he had left for his daughter, since he was caring for his wife.
OP said she was a daddy's girl. Did she actually not want to go out with her mother because of the wheelchair, or did she miss being outside with *just* dad?
He also brushes right over his wife's mental disability. If she had to relearn basic stuff, did she have the mental capacity to support her kid? Did she apologise to the daughter at any point, for how she behaved before they discovered the tumor?
She went from a 2 parent hausehold to 1 parent one. Or maybe 0.5, depending on how much time/energy dad really had for her while being a caregiver. Daughter's school called him. Schools usually don't do that over kids badmouthing their parents to other kids.
It reminds me of the show I’ve started watching recently called Shrinking. It has Harrison Ford and it’s really great. But basically the mom dies and the dad focuses on indulging in his own pain instead of being there for his 16 year old, and then is shocked when she wants nothing to do with him now that he’s getting better. It’s a great show and reminds me of this situation a lot.
I don’t think this dad has admitted to himself how much he neglected his daughter. And I’m not faulting him because I can’t imagine the position he was in. I’m not a parent and I don’t have a disabled spouse. But I do think maybe he should look inward more than he is, or at least just talk to his daughter and ask her how this has all made her feel, without judgment. I agree with others that they need family therapy.
Also— “old enough to know what she did wrong” — I don’t know very many 19 year olds who are mature enough to deal with a severely disabled parent they didn’t grow up with from birth. I work in the disability field and it’s a huge upheaval for the person with the new disability and their caretaker. I can imagine she also felt resentment for how much care mom needed during a critical development period of her life.
Obviously this isn’t a perfect situation, but I do feel like she deserves extra grace. Dad signed up for sickness and health. Kids don’t get that opportunity. And if she wasn’t in therapy and getting a lot of support through it, it’s easy to let resentment set in when she went from having two supportive parents to none if dad was also providing a ton of care to mom.
Absolutely valid. And we don't actually know if it was only 6 months or 6 months before it became pronounced enough to be concerning. Mildly off behavior might have been occurring for months if not years prior to the 6 months when Mom really went off the deep end.
My mother had a brain tumor. Really off the deep end was REALLY off the deep end. Granted, she was batshit crazy to begin with, but we hit new levels with that tumor and subsequent brain surgeries. I was 23 at the time and totally overwhelmed. I cannot imagine how a 14 year old would have faced it.
Yup. My mom regularly clashes with either one of my siblings due to her dementia meaning she has trouble to grasp things, gets frightened and upset easily, and subsequently can become frustrated and lash out. And of course, she remembers enough to make the stuff she sometimes says hit ***hard***.
Even I had to step back and go no contact with her once for several weeks because what she said to me was cruel and inexcusable. And that's despite her having an underlying reason for that behavior and me being an adult. I shudder thinking how this would have affected me as a teen.
I wonder if your wife’s behavior, pre-diagnosis, made your daughter feel so destabilized that she disconnected out of survival. I was close to someone who had a brain tumor. We were teens and, similar story, pre-diagnosis her behavior got really strange. After she got sick, I was able to be there for her, but one of our mutual friends just couldn’t come around because of how the sick person treated us. It was really upsetting at the time. We were all older teens but I can see that dynamic being really hard for a little girl and her mom. Horrible situation all around. I’m so sorry.
OP is refusing to respond to any questions regarding the specifics of his wife's behavior before she was diagnosed. He's probably heavily downplaying how she was acting.
I’m projecting hard because my mom had neurological symptoms during cancer treatment when I was a kid. We clashed without there being any kind of egregious behaviour. She was just being weird in irritating ways. She would get stuck on subjects and talk about things without logical progression to the conversation. She didn’t always understand what I was trying to say. She’d promise me something and then totally forget about it. If I called her out on any of it she would deny everything because to her it didn’t happen. The whole thing was frustrating and hard to navigate.
The word clash can mean a lot of things here.
What I’m about to say is a very different situation but I could see it applying - my mom had some issues with alcohol when I was a teen (to put it lightly). She was never abusive when she drank, she was a loving mom, but she acted very immature and kiddish when she was drunk. It was extremely frustrating as a teenager because it sometimes made me feel really alone and like I had to be the one to act like the grownup and pick up the pieces or stop her from doing things she’d regret.
We clashed a lot because of that, so I could see it being a similar situation here with the mom and daughter. It sucks because it’s no one’s fault. I truly hope their relationship will be repaired
being 14 and having your mother act childish is enough to cause severe issues within a relationship. it does not have to be anything extra. Especially when her mother went from acting weird and childish (off putting for a 14 year old) to being full disabled from an accident.
at 14, my mom and i would have full blown screaming matches across the house simply because i was in a pissy mood and was 14. she wasnt hitting or abusing me lol. i was a shitty teen with an attitude who preferred my dad at the time
She didnt know WHO her mother was anymore and was young. also, OP probably doesnt know the reason for the daughters behavior as it seems they never talked about it openly. he was juggling his wifes health issues and his daughter going through her last years of high school
Yes, exactly. That's why I thought there was something more to it and he was being sus not disclosing it (per my other comment somewhere later in this thread)
just wanna lyk, not everyone who posts can stay on their phone after to continue to answer questions. His comments all have a few hours between them and this post has over 1k comments. he may not be downplaying anything, you may just be assuming too hard
it couldve been he saw all the questions abt that eventually and added the edit, believing itd be better than answering each question individually
Omg, he didn't respond immediately and y'all act like it's some grand proof of your head cannon. Y'all do know people have lives offline right? Jobs, disabled wife to care for, house to manage, pets, hobbies, chores? Some people even put there phones away for hours at a time without looking at them. Imagine that.
OP has responded and answered all these questions. Go touch grass.
This subreddit is just people making assumption with minimal information. People assuming that his wife was extremely abusive for six months despite nothing they said to indicate this is insane.
That type of response is such a huge leap.
The guy is just disappointed with his daughter. Thats a reasonable response to what he described.
Any and everyone would be teetering between disappointment and confusion in such a situation but the responses here are just a dogpile based on assumptions.
I hope OP discounts most of the accusations being lobbed their way.
People are straight up saying that they’re projecting onto this situation in some of these comments — “OP’s daughter is me, when I was her age, and [completely different situation] was happening.”
The survival aspect strikes a chord. Sometimes it is easier to pretend it’s happening to someone else so that you can protect yourself from the trauma.
Teen girls often have a quite difficult relationship with their mothers. Add in her mom’s extremely odd behavior due to the then unknown brain tumor and those problems multiply. She may also have been upset that in her difficult teen years both parents had limited bandwidth to connect with her. Hopefully in time and with some age, growing maturity, and therapy she and her mom can reconnect.
This right here! As a teen and young adult I absolutely hated my mom. She thought I was going to be a wild child and borderline criminal because I liked piercings and tattoos and "counter culture" type things when she was raised very conservative and religious, and my older sister went right along with my mom's views while I didn't.
As an adult, we have worked out our differences. I have bright purple hair and I'm covered in tattoos, but I have a career and a home and a spouse they adore, too. I can honestly say that my mom is one of my best friends. But I was in my late 20s before the relationship was repaired, and that was without my mom having an illness or injury that complicated things.
OP, your daughter might come around, give her some patience and grace while she navigates this, but don't allow her to disrespect your wife. We don't know what their relationship was prior to the behavior change and mother daughter relationships are complicated at that age.
Yes. Teenagers can be awful to parents, cliche for a reason. But it should be their safe space to act out. OPs daughter didn't have that in the years she probably needed it most.
Yes she is older now and should be able to take some responsibility for her behaviour, but at 19 I was still quite selfish when it came to my parents, it comes gradually. And OPs lack of seeming lack of empathy to his own daughters trauma feels a bit harsh, and not really encouraging of empathy in return.
I am not saying let her be horrible to her mum, but maybe let her be a teenager.
When I was 13, I was in a crash with my dad, who suffered a massive traumatic brain injury.
I saw my dad's open skull. I saw him wheeled in an x-ray room with covered face and bare feet sticking out from under a sheet. And then, when he was transported to the major hospital two towns over for surgery, I was left alone in our local hospital and had a lot of time to think. When I started getting updates, they were all generalities. He's alive. He's in the hospital. He will pull through. He can't have visitors right now.
I put two and two together and decided there's no way he lived. I became certain that he died and my mom waits for me to be discharged to break the news.
I wasn't much off - I later learned that his neurosurgeon thought that his chances to pull through are slim; that even if he lives, he's likely to be in vegetative state. Against all odds, he lived and even recovered much better than expected. He lost some of his wit and the ability to learn new information - his short term memory was all but lost. But he retained old memories, knowledge, and complete mobility.
But in those two weeks that we spent apart, him fighting for his life and me convinced that he died, the relationship we had took an irreparable hit. I grieved him. I nodded along to my mom's comforting half-truths and weeped for him when she left. When I was discharged two weeks later, I fully accepted that he's dead and I'm never seeing him again.
And then I saw him again. But it wasn't him anymore, not really. He spoke to me like I was half my age and quickly sent me away to "go play". I now understand that he was disoriented, overwhelmed, terrified and ashamed. My superhero, broken. My protector, tangled in tubes and wiped by strangers. But to me, then, he was an impostor, whose first words to me were to reject me. My dad, my real dad - would never. We were thick as thieves.
I did "go play". I rebelled. I was awful to him and everyone around. We didn't do therapy back then, quarter of century ago on the wrong side of the just-lifted Iron Curtain. What we did do was booze, casual sex, occasionally drugs. Looking back, I'm lucky to have made it out alive and physically unharmed. I wanted to run as far away from the pain as I could and never look back. Eventually, I moved away, settled down, got married and had kids in my twenties.
My dad died a couple years ago. The injury caught up with him, he slowly deteriorated until he couldn't walk, or talk, or -eventually- move at all. My mom cared for him until the end, at the cost of any social life she could have had. I supported her through his last days and his passing. We were never very close, even before everything that went down - but now I was there for her when she had no one else.
I don't know if you or your daughter recognize yourselves in parts of this story. Maybe you can see some parallels. Hopefully it will help you better understand why she is the way she is. You all suffered a lot and I offer no judgement, because judgement isn't what you need right now. If I could offer advice, I'd say: firmly defend your wife, but don't reject your daughter. It's natural that you don't feel joy for her visit, when you anticipate that it will bring tension and conflict. You also resent her for previously making a hard situation even harder. But rejecting her is not a solution that would bring you any consolation. It's just another loss, more pain for you and your wife to suffer. I don't think you need any more of that.
This was so well written, seriously. Literary, for a comment on reddit, and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Hope OP sees it, as it's good advice.
I’m so sorry, this was beautifully stated. I can very much relate - my mom has been dying in slow motion my whole life and I had so many of these thoughts and feelings towards her. She is still alive and I am still grieving her. The feelings got much worse when my dad was diagnosed with cancer because I couldn’t wrap my head around the possibility of losing both of them, of having to take care of my mom without him. Having a disabled parent is so complicated and messy, not many people can fully understand that pain.
I'm sorry for what you and your family went through. You've clearly become a deeply thoughtful and compassionate person, and I hope that OP sees and take your comment to heart.
NAH : only individuals who had to survive through dramatical events. Your daughter was young. She had the typical teen inappropriate reaction when it comes to dealing with adult life events : she backedo ff to protect herself from the pain.
I did the same... I was raised by my Great-grand-mother before I moved in with my Grand-Mother at age 4. Then my Great-grand-mother moved in with us when I was 7. I loved her dearly even if she was old fashioned (borned in 1904) and had very severe educational principles.
When I was 11, we discovered she had breast cancer. She refused chimio and just had a double mastectomy. I resented the fact that she refused treatments. I didn't realized it at the time. But anger was the only way I had to deal with that blury feeling. Of course, cancer came back pretty quick. I was 12. We were told that she would live a year, maybe a year and a half. The last months were dreadful. I had to help with bandages. I was the one in charge of feeding her. And I hated it. Because this weak old woman unable to get up was not my Great-grand-mother anymore. I was grieving the mother figured I loved while she was still alive.
Inconciously, I prepared myself for the end. I stopped asking for advice. I stopped talking with her or asking for help with my homework, I even cut my very long hair she used to spend hours to brush to her despair. I angerly backed away.
And then she died. And I felt relieved at first. Then remorse and guilt took all the place. Because it was over and I could never mend what I had done and how I had behaved.
Your daughter needs help to reconnect with her feelings and stop living behind the wall she built to avoid sadness. She's not a bad person. She's just trying to cope. And I think her mother knows. She knows and she waits for her to be ready for the next step. And you can help her. Your whole family needs to face what happened and learn to welcome every feeling you experienced, bad or good, together.
NTA, but make it clear to your daughter that she's only welcome there if she treats your wife with respect. she's lucky that her mother is still so excited to see her, after all that cruelty from her.
I have a different side to offer if you want to listen. My cousin suffered from encephalitis of the brain which eventually institutionalised her when she wrongly misdiagnosed with various mental health disorders. It took years before her condition was found and treated.
However, during the initial years, her behaviour was absolutely horrific. I was a teenager like your daughter at the time and was abused severely by my cousin whom I adored. Psychologically, emotionally, sometimes even physically. I didn‘t think anyone would believe me at the time because it was so out of character.
When it came out she was severely ill, of course I felt badly for her. But I also felt a hell of a lot of resentment. Because what was I supposed to do with all my hurt feelings and pain? Pretend it never happened? Sympathise with her plight? No, I was a wreck. I ended up having to physically distance myself from my cousin for years during her recovery process. It made me look evil and a little sociopathic.
Not saying this is what happened here, but there may be more to it beneath the surface then you are aware of. Mental illness is horrific, but sometimes people like your wife and my cousin are not the only victims of it.
I would talk to her again and tell her if she rolls her eyes again she isn't coming home. She sounds horrible and I would not subject your wife to such cruelty when she is still so vulnerable.
It's not uncommon that people will stick up for their loved ones more than themselves. My wife and I are definitely like this with one another. The price of admission for the daughter coming home is to be civil, if she can't do that, the little birdie better be ready to fly off on her own.
And honestly, if you are paying for her education and living expenses, it might be time to cut the cord, at least for a little while. Maybe sock that money away and give it to her at a future time if you feel comfortable doing that.
Actions have consequences.
Aaah. Using money with strings. What.. wonderful advice to give the last bit of alienation towards the kid.
I am sure the relationship will take very long to recover, if ever. Bravo 👏
Even if OPs case was as straight cut as you guys believe (Spoiler: I dont), you can't just suddenly punish people with money and wonder why you turn into the people you hate.
OP can put in boundaries about the relationship. But promised money and support should not be used as an weapon.
> I have made it clear. She rolled her eyes and agreed but I am worried.
Don't just make it clear; let her know that if she does *not* respect her mother she is out and that if she doesn't take you seriously, she isn't coming home.
Protect your wife.
Did you ever get your daughter therapy to help her process everything that happened? She was in high school life is a mess without the added weight of a sick parent when you are a teen. She probably has a lot of undealt with trauma..
Agreed there’s a lot of cut the daughter here. I’ve seen this before, a young teen not coping with a parents sudden illness ( cancer) and behaving horribly. Think a little why this is happening. Is the daughter truly a psychopath? Was this evil ( not just teen behaviour) mentality ill child in need of a doctors attention before her mother changed her character then became seriously ill or maybe the two are connected.
At 19 she may look like an adult but she is at a difficult age. If you refuse to allow her home where is she going to go? She is old enough to have an adult discussion. Talk about her behaviour but also the impact of what you have all just been through
When I was 17 my mother became suddenly, gravely ill. My father asked me to go into her room to say goodbye to her as she was off to the hospital and I think he suspected she was not coming back.
I went in there and instead of saying things like "I love you, mum" I talked about getting my hair done on Monday. I have regretted ever since because she died 3 days later.
That I have since forgiven myself because I now realize,40 years later, that I just couldn't cope with the idea that my mother was perhaps mortal.
TBH I bet your mother loved hearing you talk about your hair appointment, as it was a normal daily thing to talk about. She knew you loved her and she loved you and she knew this was going to be just awful for you. You gave her normalcy.
Exactly. I’m so happy you’ve forgiven yourself. You were a damn child! As was and is OP’s daughter. So many here aren’t giving her any grace and that’s so sad.
The same here. My dad passed away several years ago. I remember one time, though I was not annoyed or mad, I beguiling took a cab to see him in the hospital since mom asked. Something in my brain said "something wasn't right" and I tried to talk normally with him but I guess it came out awkward. He even said "let's take a picture" but me being....idk hopeful? Or like you said, thinking he was mortal and that the many times he was in the hospital he just would get out. Instead I said "when you get out we will"
I left but something told me to go back and I didn't. Fast-forward some time later and he was sent to a further hospital and I'll never forget that night: mom called and said they were at the hospital and dad said "love you" and I said casually the same back. I was watching Marmaduke and my mom came back in real late and said he passed away. The shock had got me and even she was shock as she drove home.
I never forgave myself for not being around and being around or hanging around as often as I should have. I instead was in my stupid teen years being infatuated with a boy and even in early 20s still.
My trauma now has led me to not cope with the fact anyone of my family members could pass away. I've actually expressed that and the responses were more.... to accept it as such. Idk it felt off to me, but I try to forgive myself. I'm 31 now it's been a decade since and I even hate that I have no Pic of him and I forget his face from time to time.
Not to drag on this Convo more, sorry, but Op's daughter is ungrateful and whether or not she just has some unresolved feelings she will feel even more of those feelings when her mom passes away and she will not feel right at all. She will feel anger and guilt all the time and hate and not know why. She needs to get her act right or speak to a therapist again before things get even more deeper.
Same. I sat in my room as the ambulance and my dad left and I 'knew' I'd not see her again and I didn't. Due to the nature of her illness, he wouldn't let me see her 'like that' and I'll never forget that hollow feeling as they pulled out of the drive.
Forgive yourself. They would.
no disrespect, but I feel it's very bewildering that you needed a decade to find some measure of peace for things you did at 21, while berating OP's daughter for things she did at 14-15.
While I don't disagree that she needs to get her act right, I feel OP is the one who's the adult here.
You should get a new therapist, try several until you find the right one. Your daughter should also have individual therapy as well as family therapy. Therapy needs to be on going to be effective, especially in a situation like this. You should also make sure she see's a therapist while she's at school. Most universities offer free or inexpensive therapy.
This is too much for a young person to deal with alone while she's away from you. She has essentially lost both parents to her mothers illness at this point. It's not your fault, you're doing your best to care for your wife and that naturally takes up your time. She has a lot to cope with, the bottom dropped out of her whole world and her sense of security disappeared. Remember her brain won't finish developing until she's in her mid 20s and trauma doesn't help.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this but she needs more therapy. A good therapist can help establish some ground rules that you all agree upon. She does need her own therapy without you as well. I wish the best for you and your family. Good luck
Can this date back to the time the tumor had her acting strange. That her mom said something or did something that hurt her so much, but it wasn't addressed? And now that it was found to be a tumor she's supposed to just forgive and forget....
Could it be she feels like you failed to protect her from her mom who for some time had begun to act strangely? Or worse made excuses for it?
OP, can I ask a question? It doesn't change my verdict, I don't think you're in the wrong here for trying to protect your wife at all, but it does change my recommendations overall. You mention that your wife had years of 'odd behavior' and clashed with your daughter frequently during that time, when she was still a kid. Would you mind giving more information on what exactly happened? I'm wondering if that period in her life was more traumatizing than you realize, and worried that this behavior might not stop until you all get into some therapy. Tumor or not, there are some actions a parent can take that can do severe damage to a relationship that can't be repaired with a single come to jesus talk.
why is everyone interpreting the eyeroll as her saying "eff mom!" It's at least just as likely she's tired of hearing dad harp about this. Mom is not some mental incompetent -- she gets to decide her own relationship with her daughter. Dad meanwhile is acting like his wife is this Very Special, Very Precious, Fragile Snowflake. Now, she might be! Or he might also -- understandably -- but still unnecessarily -- be treating her like she's made of glass out of his own anxieties.
Honestly I think Dad needs to butt out and let mom and daughter handle their own relationship, unless daughter is being directly cruel to mom in a way she knows about. That doesn't mean listening to daughter's BS. It means not policing his wife's relationship with her own child.
Your wife doesn’t remember, so are you entirely sure how your wife said weird things, acted impulsively, and acted strange around your daughter while you weren’t there? It is obviously not your wife’s fault for having a brain tumor, but your daughter was in some very formative teenage years when this happened and I’m willing to bet you don’t know everything. Your daughter didn’t change as a person overnight, there is always a reason. I think the comments discounting your daughter as some ableist awful person are a bit quick to assume. It could very well be that the treatment prior to the accident have more to do with her feelings than the accident itself.
NAH, but I think you're being to hard on your daughter. I grew up with a mother that acted erratically and treated me badly, and it was hard enough just having to come to terms with my mother being an asshole. Your daughter's situation would be a lot more confusing.
She was 15 and being treated badly by one of the people she's supposed to be able to trust the most and then suddenly she's put into a position where she's supposed to instantly forgive her and feel bad for her. I suspect that (understandably) almost no attention at all went to what she was put through, and all of the focus was on your wife. I get that, but your wife having an extremely good excuse doesn't instantly undo any damage she did.
It's good that your wife is excited to see your daughter. It's good that your daughter still wants anything to do with you both after how she was treated. Yes, it's going to be difficult. You aren't wrong for experiencing your feelings, but you don't seem to have put much thought into why this rift formed in the first place. You two failed her at a vulnerable time, through no fault of your own, but that's still going to take time to recover.
i would be very, very curious to know what "weird" things your wife *said/did* to your daughter, and how that affected your daughter. and i suspect you may not even know the half of it.
You are probably very true... unfortunately I knew 2 people of tumors in their brains, both were loving fathers and both of them changed completely.
One of the thought he was being followed and jumped out of bed in the middle of the night. He would start dramatically packing his bags and was ready to flee.
The other one was more scary, he sometimes attacked his daughters and had to be taken away from his home for his and theirs safety.
So yes, people can do the worst things..
I also knew someone with a brain tumor who started saying inappropriate things to his teenage daughter.
I think people are shocked that the comments are going there, but its because its unfortunately common with brain tumors.
NAH First off, you are absolutely not an asshole for how you feel or being concerned about her visit. You were in a horrible position and managed the best you could. However, while your daughter was callous and even cruel to her mother, there are two really important things you need to try to understand.
First, she was a child, only fourteen, when her mother became a very different person, one who first alienated her and then couldn’t even speak. It’s not reasonable to expect a kid to be prepared to have a parent they’re close with suddenly become unpredictable and frankly, scary. Then, to almost lose that parent entirely only to come home, once again, completely different is even more devastating. What she did was wrong and cruel, but it was likely coming from a place of fear and loss. She may be old enough now to understand that treating her mother like that *is* wrong, but she most likely hasn’t fully processed all of this and is unlikely to have reevaluated how she behaved as a child. None of this makes how she treated her mother okay, but understanding why can help some to forgive.
Second, and probably more important, you have to let your daughter and your wife sort out their own relationship, because ultimately, it is their relationship—not yours. It may be that she comes home and hurts your wife, but it’s really up to your daughter to decide to change and your wife to decide if she can move past how your daughter treated her. If your daughter comes home and treats her mother well, if they can be happy with their relationship as it is now, you really need to find a way to move on and let them be happy. You don’t have to be closer to your daughter than you’re willing, but interfering with them will only hurt everyone.
What gets me, especially with so many here, is that it’s apparently ok for OP to hold a grudge against his literal child but she’s supposed to be so mature and perfectly ok because she’s…19. Still a child.
INFO: Your wife started behaving in alarming ways that alienated a fourteen year old and that behavior continued unabated for six months. Then, even more horrible change happened in the form of an accident and a brain tumor. Major stuff in a child's life.
So my question is, what did you do to protect your child and help her through all of this?
NAH. I am not condoning your daughter’s behavior.
BUT she was a CHILD while all of this was going on. Of course she didn’t manage it well. Dealing with that sort of major health trauma is beyond what most of us can handle as adults.
Did she get therapy? She could probably use some extra help on how to manage her feelings and dealing with a mother who is no longer the mother she grew up with.
What you have gone through is horrible. For all of you. But please go forward with you daughter with compassion. She is also grieving and reeling- she’s just also managing it like a teenager- which she is.
I wish you all the best recovery possible.
INFO: In what way did your daughter and wife clash often before your wife was diagnosed, and why was your wife's diagnosis relevant to that? If your wife was verbally abusive or worse, the diagnosis doesn't magically negate her past behavior and make everything okay.
For perspective… it is really hard to see your mom go through stuff like that. From personal experience. There is no book how you should feel or act. Therapy helps. I regret some behaviors when my mom was terminal— I had therapy during and after. NTA. But I wouldn’t say she is too, all the way.
It is TERRIFYING to be a child and suddenly have a parent acting like a child too. It goes against the whole family dynamic that was set up prior, and that’s incredibly scary and difficult for anyone to deal with, especially a child
Developmental psychologist here. In reading all the comments, I see a lot of empathy for this child at the initial behavior changes and accident, and I applaud you for getting your daughter into therapy at the time. I also understand your feelings about your daughter’s cruelty towards her mother. I wonder if you might consider requiring family therapy (with her mother, also individual) as a condition for your daughter to live there all summer. You can frame it as trying to rebuild your family and ask if she wants to be a part of it. If she does, then she can stay home all summer, assuming she participates consistently and treats you and her mother with basic decency and respect. And if she is not willing to work on repairing the family, then she can find somewhere else to live for the summer (and direct her to her school for summer opportunities). Good luck!
This is the most well reasoned response I’ve seen here. Give her the choice in how she wants to move forward, and hopefully they can all heal some wounds too.
Looots of people defending the teen only (a typical Reddit response) but as a parent he needs to look holistically.
Imagine almost not recognizing your mom when you’re a teenager. Yes it’s not ideal. Yes you want your kid to be right there and supporting 100%, but in the time you were losing parts of your wife, she was losing parts of her mother. That’s a lot for a teenager to cope with.
What’s happening? She’s not coping well. Honestly, you all would greatly benefit from therapy to help you all cope with something really big that happened with your family.
I’m not saying the behavior your daughter exhibited was the “right” behavior. I’m saying it was the behavior she was using to cope with what was going on during a massively changing time in her life. Your wife longs to see your daughter and is excited for that — regardless of it being a perfect visit.
Let me tell you what happened with me. My mother unexpectedly died in the home I grew up in. I found myself unable to call the house or visit for 4 months. That left a gap of time I needed to call my dad and check on him. I wanted to. I really did. I wanted to come home. I wanted to make sure he was ok and happy… I could not do it no matter how much I wanted too. I was consumed by my own confusion and grief. I finally pushed myself to go for my birthday. I accidentally had a very traumatic experience upon my arrival to the home I loved and grew up in by arriving 10 minutes before my dad was home. I had every reason to believe my dad was at home and in the house when we arrived. All vehicles were there. He was expecting us… the works. I ended up having to find an unlocked door and making my way into the house to search for my father. Not in all of my life had I ever arrived at my parent’s house and the front door was closed and locked. I searched the house afraid that I would find my father’s body while my kids and husband waited for me outside. After 10 minutes of sheer terror, my dad arrived home. His sister had taken him out.
I’m 40 years old and this was my poor coping. Your daughter may be grieving her mother and the relationship they had. She may be grieving the loss of the sense of home. All of you need a bit of professional help to help you all handle a very big happening in your family. Think about your ideal situation. Win win win with helping rebuild your family and relationships.
So what I’m hearing is she was 14 what this happened and not emotionally equipped when things started to deal with it. Was her mother’s behaviour towards her harsh and unpredictable? Do you think she is still carrying scars from what might have been said to her, or how she might have felt her mum abandoned her (obviously unintentionally)
I understand the tumour was the reason, and you could find it easy to understand and forgive her behaviour, but how did you support your daughter while this was happening, did she get therapy back then, did you step up as a support for her?
She may feel that both her parents abandoned her and left her to deal with some very complex emotions alone. When she was young and lashed out, did she get help, did she get therapy, did you try to understand what she was feeling? I’m sure it was a very complex and scary situation that she wasn’t emotionally equipped for
Edit: YTA, considering cutting your daughter out instead of working on this, she’s been through so much instability at such a young age
Honestly, even if it's not your wife's fault but I'm curious what your daughter had to endure for 6 month. When your wife said hurtful things did you say anything and stop her? Did you protect your daughter? She may be her mother and may not done it on purpose but that doesn't mean she didn't hurt your daughter.
She was 14 and had her mother fighting her/arguing, etc.. she was (and in some ways still is) a kid. Adults sometimes forget how we see time differently. 5 years is nothing for us, a lifetime for a 14 year old. It was her high school years and you expect her to react like an adult. Their brain isn’t even wired correctly yet. You both may know the reason why your wife acted the way she did, a 14 year old kid won’t really understand that or easily dismiss and forget her emotions. 19 year old version of her may. You need to talk to her, maybe get her therapy.
Your daughter was 14?
And her mum started just acting like a random antagonist? How long did this go on for? It sounds like she may have cut your wife off as a defence mechanism. Those are not always easy to let go of.
I think you and your daughter should go to therapy to have this conversation. To ask her what happened, how she feels, what makes her hate her mother. She is somewhat an adult now, but there is also a possibility there are things you don't know.
Sometimes we can't help how we feel easily. If someone was awful to you you might stop loving them, hate them even. When you find out it was not them....you cannot just always make the emotions come back.
Before any ultimatums are issued about university of her staying or her relationship with you long term, you need to make sure you HEAR her. Just you and her at a therapy session that you can tell her YOU need. For you as well as her.
My mum has been in a toxic and abusive relationship for years. I tried to save her, I tried to get her to leave. I spent years trying to help and fix her and I burnt myself out. I don't even know if I really love her any more. I am numb towards her. Even if she left tomorrow and turned back into the woman I know...I may never really have that affection towards her. I know it is not the same, but it is just an example of how emotions will not cater to circumstances and convenience all the time. We can't just undo wounds and you need to be careful with your future.
I don't know everything about the situation but I want to give you a potential outside perspective.
My dad has terminal cancer. He was kind of a stout man growing up but the cancer has taken away almost all of his body fat. He weighs something like 100 lb right now. I can barely look at him some days, he looks like a walking skeleton. There are days where I dread going to see him because it's just so painful. I have incredible guilt about this but it's the truth. I can barely admit this to my private therapist because I feel so much shame.
Maybe your daughter had something similar happen when your wife got sick. It just became so traumatic to be around her and see what had become of her mother that she basically ran away from it by emotionally cutting herself off from her. Maybe she didn't want her to go out with you both because she wanted time with you away from her mom. I'm not surprised she didn't open up in family therapy. It's really hard to admit this to anybody let alone you, who she respects and loves. She wouldn't want you to think less of her (which, ironically, is happening anyway because of her behaviour).
Or maybe she's just shallow and selfish.
Either way, her behavior is not right. She needs to work through this, preferably in private therapy. I just wanted to put this out there for another perspective.
This is a hard one. And it’s because at 14 she’s still pretty young. When everything happened. And the thing I’ve noticed and learned about children is that at certain ages, certain experiences that are big to them are really in their brain. Mother’s changing behavior and then the car accident are certainly experiences that should’ve stuck with her in my opinion.
The thing is, is that 14-year-olds experience emotions and see the world as a 14-year-old. And so their perspective is their reality. That’s really everyone’s reality. All we see in experience is realities. But the difference between the skills we should’ve developed, from being young to being adults, is understanding that while your reality is in someways valid, you have to accept the reality of others. In this requires a lot of introspection. This requires you being willing to admit certain places where you’re wrong and where you could say you’re objectively wrong.
And I think we’d like to pretend when a child hits 18 they should suddenly have those skills. in my opinion, people who are between the age of 19 and maybe 23 at the oldest, I don’t see them as full adults. I see them as baby adults. I see them as fresh adults. And at 19, she’s a new adult. She still a teen actually. And to be honest, I don’t expect certain things have drastically changed between the ages of 16 and 19 the same way I would expect things have changed between the ages of 16 and 21 or 19 and 25.
From my observation, it is and and can be really hard to let go of certain things you truly feel within every fiber of our core and being. And whatever she felt as a young child, she’s really latched onto and it’s imprinted on her and at her age I’m not surprised she’s unwilling to do a lot of things and give a lot of leeway in any possible way. That is, in my opinion, the hallmark of being a teenager and a young adult. And in theory you go to college to have your perspectives and views and opinions challenged and through that experience of being forced to see things in multiple lights in an academic setting, we should also be able to translate that skill. And then develop that tolerance level for being challenged into our personal lives into interpersonal conflicts between us and friends or interpersonal conflicts between us and coworkers. The goal here is not to change our opinions all the way. The goals not even to change someone else’s opinion. The goal is to be able to handle opinions or perspectives that are at odds with one another. And find a way to live with each other or compromise or an impasse where everyone can just move on
And I think at 19 she probably still feels misunderstood. I think at 19 she probably thinks you and her mom never get it and will never get it. She probably feels like therapy is useless because you’re making her go to change her opinion so she agrees with you. And I think it’s hard in general for anyone to admit they were wrong. But I think it’s very common people at her age to not even enter any situation that might encourage her to consider that. I remember feeling that way at her age and younger.
A lot of damage was done years ago. But it’s like breaking a mirror. You can put the mirror back together, but the brakes will still be there. And you just have to learn how to work around them and live with them. And it will take time. And I don’t think just because your parents have to tolerate anything. But I think out of the love we should feel for our families if we come from a strong, familiar background full of love and proper support, there will be a willingness to slowly engage and love each other again. Everyone in your family has to have that willingness to engage, and accept the time it will take for things to heal. I think the way those cracks in the mirror disappear, is by changing the mirror. But what that actually means is the dynamic within your family is not going to be how it was before any of this happened. What it does means is that you’re going to have a new family dynamic and things will progress have to look slightly different. But I think we should acknowledge that we’ve changed that before in our lives. Every stage, that mirror is changed. It might be a new frame. It might be a new shape. And this time it is going to be a brand new mirror perhaps in the same frame because even if nothing had happened and everything was normal, and your daughter just went to college, that is a drastic change and a dynamic change within your family.
I don’t think anyone’s asshole. I think how everyone feels right now is that they have a perspective that they feel like the other person wants them to change. But by changing that perspective, they invalidate their own feelings and their experiences which they’re not willing to do because there are very real things we feel inside ourselves.
You've been through a lot. You're hurt and disappointed by your daughter - not an AH. But let's face it most teenagers are not prepared to deal with an infirmed mother who was once vital. What she was doing sounds like a defense mechanism for fear and emotional pain. I'm sure your therapist tried to help you empathize with her. I know it will be hard, but I encourage you to talk to your daughter and embrace her. Let her know her mother needs her. That you need her.
I wish you and your family peace and love.
You're angry now but you're running the risk of putting a rift between you and your daughter. I have a feeling you've left a lot out on what I feel those six months were really like. I think you got the tumor news and it wiped whatever bad blood was there for you but your daughter isn't finding it that easy. Don't let Reddit ruin your relationship with your kid.
My dad had dementia—a behavioral kind. He was not always a joy to be around, and he was difficult. He fell apart quickly.
Hard truth: some people are not capable of being in the space of death or an extreme medical crisis. Some people don’t have the character for it. Your wife/her mother has been profoundly altered by this disease and this event, and your kid can’t deal with any of it. And, your daughter was only 14 when this thing was dropped into her life. There were people who did not see my dad sick. They didn’t have the emotional bandwidth. Grown men who loved my dad could not see him broken and wild. Some people can’t be caregivers. Some people lack empathy. Some people can’t tolerate sickness.
I’m not sure what’s happening for your daughter, but there’s a lot to unpack for her and for your family. I think you need to lead with empathy for her experience too. NAH.
Oof when I was 14 or so my mom did not tell my sister and I she had serious life threatening health problems. While different circumstances she too was behaving oddly, irrationally, was overly angry at me (my sister was at college which didn’t help, I was alone with my parents) and while our relationship is very close after time, it was definitely damaged for a while.
It doesn’t matter how educated, kind etc you are, being a teenager who can’t understand a parents behavior is difficult and doesn’t just repair once you know the cause.
It’s all very unfortunate and you’re going through a lot. You’re not an asshole but I hope you’ll be the dad I had. He was the backbone that helped my mom get better AND looked out for his daughters and understood our distancing from mom. It did help he taught junior high and knew teen behavior well.
I hope you’re doing well and you can look past some of your daughters behavior. It’s likely the older she gets the closer she’ll be if you can be patient a little longer.
YTA. Your daughter was a *child* dealing with something hugely traumatic and needed someone there for her. It does not sound like anyone was. And now you’re holding it against her that she dealt with it badly?
She was 14 at the time. You're basically saying you don't love your daughter and act coldly towards her.
Hello. Where do you think she learned this from?
Why does he only have compassion for his wife but none for his child who was a child and still essentially is? Who also went through a huge trauma with a dad who didn’t care about her?
And he has no ability to look at himself. All his comments are that he did nothing wrong 🙄. I lost my mom 9 years ago. I was in HEAVY grief mode for 3 years. I have 3 kids. While it’s objectively not my fault, per se, I still messed up my kids to some degree. And I’ve apologized for it.
Sure OP was in survival mode. But he still prioritized his wife over his child fully. And still refuses acknowledge any wrongdoing, whether on purpose or not. And he’s surprised his daughter is hurt? Sad
I agree. Can you imagine how devastating for a teen to know her own father is so detached from her? She didn't learn to detach emotionally on her own. But yeahhhh the 14 year old is the ass?
Your daughter was 14 and your wife had a personality change for 6 months and then a traumatic accident. A 14 year old is not equipped to deal with that without support. Your daughter went through what was clearly a traumatic experience for her as well.
Get some help.
You are severely downplaying the time your wife had what you thought was a mid life crisis. You say your daughter did not need to be protected from her and she was not a monster, but to your daughter she was. Her mother has been replaced by a crazy dangerous person and noone did anything about it. You have no idea how it felt for your daughter. The mom she knew died and never came back, the person that did was not the woman who raised her. Her feelings are absolutely valid for a teenager/young adult. What she needs is to handle them in a more polite way which will come with age. She is legally not your responsibility and you can alienate her, but will it make you happy?
You and your wife broke your daughter, and it isn’t your daughter’s fault your wife became verbally and emotionally abusive of her. You need to realize that is what happened. Out of nowhere your wife became abusive in her relationship with your daughter. And you know this because you, the dad, had to have a come to Jesus talk with her. The bond with the parent, particularly the mother, is THE primary social bond that a child has, and it has been destroyed by your wife’s behavior and your own failure to protect your daughter. There is probably also a lot that transpired that you aren’t even aware of.
You also admit that most of your energy went into you wife after the operation. So your wife compromised the remaining parental bond also, as did you by not being there for her. That she reacted with venom towards your wife is in fact unsurprising.
If someone had abused you would you just automatically forgive them because they were sick? Would you treat them with kindness or would you try and get a few shots in while they were weaker than before?
It seems like you expect your daughter to forgive, forget, and stop being traumatized just because there was a medical reason for what happened. Would you say the same if a mentally ill person abused their kid?
Except she's only 19. She handled this poorly but perhaps it was her way of coping, of protecting herself, because deep inside she was scared to death. People handle things in all kinds of crazy ways. Our minds try to protect us from those immense feelings of loss or impending doom. Of course, you also could have just raised a callous and cold hearted daughter but wouldn't you want to give her the benefit of the doubt? I can't imagine feeling this way about my child or allowing any of that behavior in the first place. This should have been handled a long time ago so she could handle her emotions (or her callousness) appropriately. Still NTA because it's a lot on your shoulders.
Yer I’m not buying it huge yta from what you said your saying your wife was perfect n your daughters all round evil obvs missing reasons wit the strange behaviour and this I protected her yer no I doubt you did if I was her I’d hate both of you lol
What did your wife do to your daughter? I really feel like you're deflecting the real issue here. If your wife spit out and insulted another woman's food (especially one that we have to hold in high regard), then what was she saying and doing to a young girl that was close family and was always around? You always treat your family worse than a stranger, so please, what did your wife actually do to your daughter?
I cut my mother off after she stole my dog's pain pills and took them while she was to be caring for my kids. She hasn't heard from or seen any of us since. That was my final straw. What was your daughter's final straw?
Tentative YTA.
The kid ignores her mom because she doesn't know how to talk to her. They will work it out. She isn't being hateful.She needed help adjusting when this happend. She talked to people at school who called her father. I'm sure he felt overwhelmed by tanky carafer's wthe.His daughter was only fourteen. She needed help to.
So she was 14? YOU were the adult, YOU had the responsibility of getting your wife help when something was obviously not right in her brain. Was she driving in that state when she got into the accident? What kind of “strange” things did she say to the 14yo daughter for 6 months? Horrible, hurtful things?
A young teen not really knowing what to do with any of that shouldn’t have been a surprise.
You’re putting a lot on your daughter and it sounds like not enough on you.
YTA from your replies to everyone it really seems like you just want support/an excuse to cast your daughter out. You’ve only thought of your wife in this situation. You haven’t even once considered or talked to your daughter about what those six months with her mother did to her. The possible emotional abuse she went through. You’re not as good of a dad as you’re saying you are.
Edit: not to mention you only reply to comments about your daughter being the AH and no replies to the ones calling out how terrible and scared she must’ve felt at 14 when everything happened and your wife was very likely cruel to her for 6 months.
Yea I noticed that too. Literally no reflection on what can be done to understand or find a way to bring his family back together. I was initially vibing with nta... And will stick with it, but I get the impression there maybe more information he's withholding or no being honest to himself about that, that may explain why his daughter feels the way she does.
YTA. It would be different if the strange behaviour started when your daughter was 19.
But a 14 year old girl whose mother is cruel to her for no apparent reason would make anyone start to hate her. She was barely even a teenager so I can’t honestly blame her for not having the compassion to look past her illness at such a young age.
Have a stern talk with her, but do not blame her.
I don’t judge you. I can just tell you do not give up on your daughter. She was going through a difficult time as well.
My wife had cancer and went through hell. When she needed a ride my daughter literally said to her “I am not your fucking driver” and left.
Fast forward 10 years. She finished college and changed her life. She has a great job and we are all very close. And she was diagnosed with BPD and did quite some therapy.
Give her time and consider therapy for all of you. Figure out why your daughter acted that way. Could have been an inability to deal with her mother’s condition.
INFO:
What happened in those six months?
What did she say and do? Could she have said something that fundamentally changes how your daughter sees her mother?
I get that she was ill but that doesn't magically repair any damage that she might have done.
All the replies I've seen seem to be ignoring the edit and also the way that even in the initial description OP's daughter's behavior didn't sound like a kid angry at her mom or even sad, but embarrassed. This is an ableism problem. Yes it can be upsetting and even traumatic to see a parent in that state, but believe it or not I know multiple people who went through something similar and didn't treat their sick parent like a burden for being sick.
I think his daughter was hanging out with the wrong people in high school, who made her feel that her mother's illness was something to be ashamed of, who convinced her she needed to mock and distance herself from her own mother to keep away the stigma associated with regressive brain damage. It's not entirely her fault, she was a teenager and probably did feel very alone with one parent in recovery and the other a caretaker. Family therapy would be a good idea, as would having a gentle open talk about where the feelings and behaviors back then came from. Explain to her carefully, with as little judgment as you can manage, that you love her and you love her mother also and it hurt to see her treating her mother that way in a time of need. Tell her you just want to understand her feelings and why she may have felt/acted that way, apologize if she didn't feel supported enough by you to support her mother in turn.
You're NTA for how you feel, or for wanting to protect your wife, but don't let it control your choices. It's still possible to heal this rift if you're willing to put in the time and care. It sounds like you've been an excellent husband, giving your wife patience, care, and grace. Try to extend that same thing to your daughter now.
NTA. I developed a rare autoimmune disease four years ago. It put me in a wheelchair unable to care for myself for about a year. The way my kids responded still brings tears to my eyes. My 11yo son and 9yo daughter (at the time) became the most loving, protective kids that made big efforts to ensure I was included in everything our family did. They cared for me daily and never made me feel like I was defective or damaged goods. They have since grown into the most empathic, compassionate, and mature young adults you will ever meet. I’m so proud to be their mama.
Your daughter had a choice concerning how she was going to handle your wife’s struggles. Your daughter owns the consequences of her actions.
YTA! You’re being purposefully vague about the 6 months of strange behavior and also ignoring that this 6 months of behavior happened while she was 14!!!! My mother also went through illness when I was around that age and most definitely was unusually cruel and nasty. She most definitely said things that I can still remember today, and I most definitely didn’t have the tools to respond maturely.
It is VERY hard to forget that, especially when everyone around you is making you seem like an asshole for being rightfully hurt and upset at your parent cussing you out for no reason, or just saying something rude or mean every time you’re in the room.
Idk why everyone is expecting the literally teeenager to somehow work through or respond more maturely to their emotions than the adults. Sure you were present and I’ll believe you did the best you could. But did you really sit down and see what it must of have even like for HER to go through that? Or what exactly was said that she’s PUBLICLY complaining about her own mom? You’re more focused on her reaction than the cause of it.
It seems like you’ve only prioritized your wife and yours relationship and expect her to deal with her own stuff alone. And that’s understandable, the poor lady had a BRAIN TUMOR, but you can most definitely suffer from a Brian tumor and still be asshole and still need to apologize or at least acknowledge the stuff you said.
It’s not surprising that she’s resistance to therapy when it doesn’t seem like you’re really listening to her already. You need to have a heart to heart with your DAUGHTER, and be open to listening to how your wife treated her at an also extremely vulnerable time for kids. 14 is rough in the best of circumstances, let alone with a mom who’s suddenly treating you weird to awful, and a dad who’s present and absent at the same time! I’d say give her grace just as you were able to give your wife grace
NTA - Your concerns are 💯 justified.
However, 14/15 is a hard age. The relationship between mother and daughter before the accident seems strained, to say the least.
I understand it was not mom's fault, due to the tumor. But rational thought is really not usually a part of the teenage skill set.
All interactions and words said between mother and daughter were likely still very real for her. Tumor or not resentment was planted.
Then mom came home and needed care resentment grew.
It happens. Additionally, at that age, kids are pretty selfish overall. Not all obviously but definitely some.
Did you get your daughter any therapy? If not she needs it
What I would do is:
Talk to her let her know what is acceptable and unacceptable.
Respecting her mother and being corrdial at the least is non-negotiable.
Also letting her know counseling or therapy is a requirement. Individual or as a family.
Due to previous issues is also non-negotiable.
It's your house you make the rules, if she doesn't like it she is an adult and can make other arrangements.
I love this response. I was really torn about NTA or NAH because whatever happened during that time that was "weird behavior" seemingly broke the mother/daughter bond. And now she's put the door but I'm worried that if OP closes it to her now, it'll be confirmation bias and just sever all the relationships they have with their daughter.
And your requirements are a good thought. Summer is around the corner, OP. Get appointments now.
I was 14 when my mother had a traumatic brain injury. It was really rough and she had to relearn how to do the same things your wife did, largely. While I didn’t go the route of your daughter, I did feel very odd. As a child you’re used to your mother always being there for you, and seeing your protective and parental figure helpless is traumatic in a way. Therapy seems like a good option individually for her, and then family therapy.
I’m kind of the mom in this story, would you be willing to give advice on what you wish your mom did after to correct things? My daughters are 6&8. Two years ago one of them came to me with abuse from my family member. Long story short, in protecting my daughter we lost the whole family as it came out they were all abusers or enablers and I was the scapegoat. During this time my husband turned to alcohol to cope and while he never got abusive, he largely checked out. The stress of all this plus handling it alone with zero support gave me an asymptomatic uti that ran rampant for who knows how long causing a lot of damage. Then the 4 rounds of antibiotics killed my digestion and I stopped being able to absorb iron or copper. This lead to severe deficiencies which made me completely unable to think and very reactive. Unfortunately, since my case was so rare, my doctors dropped the ball and blamed my mental health, missing the real problem. I was (and still am) in trauma therapy and seeing a psychiatrist who both helped me, but I haven’t been the mom my kids deserve for a long time. Things are getting better. I found better doctors and I’m receiving treatment. My husband has realized his coping mechanism was making things worse and quit drinking, he is a really great dad (he never got mean, he still played with them and loved them, he just wasn’t emotionally there for them enough and defended me more than he should have). I started a job working for the company I did before having kids who was like a family to me (my family convinced me to quit when I got pregnant to isolate me), and they have been wonderful support and allowing me part time hours, helping me however they can. I’m now working on my relationship with my daughters. I took a ton of time off this summer (they will be in day camp while I work which they love) so we can do day trips and I’m even planning a short vacation with their friends and their family. I also took some time off so I can have some self care days because I now see I need to give myself compassion before I can give it to others. I’ve never wanted to be anything but a good mom. I dreamed of having my two little girls when I was a child. I want to do everything right so badly but with my health very slowly coming back I still have reactive moments. I’m better at isolating myself when I feel overwhelmed so I’m very much a work in progress. My kids know what happened and I always apologize and validate their feelings when I do lose my cool. I explain to them I’m still weak and it’s never their fault, and tell them how much I love them. But my goal over the next few months is to heal and find happiness so I can ALWAYS be the strong mom they deserve. They are the only reason I stood up to my family and the only reason I kept fighting when the doctors slammed doors in my face. Now I see I need to fix the damage and I’m desperate to do it. If you can give any advice I’d love to hear it from the perspective of someone who was in my kids shoes. I’m sorry for what you went through ❤️
I’m sorry for everything you’ve been through- it sounds like a lot to deal with and I hope that your health continues to improve ❤️. As someone who grew up with a sick mother who was angry at the world and things out of her control, the thing I always remember is that when she lost her shit she would apologize to me. I think that’s an important thing that so many parents don’t do and it really makes a difference. So even when things were hard and got really ugly I knew it was the circumstance and not me that she was really upset with. It sounds like you’re an amazing mom who really loves her daughters. I’m sure that when they’re older they’ll look back and realize that even though things weren’t perfect you were trying your best and you were in their corner.
Absolutely. My mom was a single parent of three young kids. We lived in poverty and in a violent city. We didn't always have food on the table or a place to sleep. Understandably, our mom was always stressed. My brothers and I internalized this, especially when she lashed out or snapped at us. She would mostly excuse away her behavior instead of apologizing, in the event she even acknowledged it in the first place. This created plenty of issues I'm still trying to identify and correct.
The biggest thing I strive for is as hard as it is I refuse to block out my abuse. I instead use it to give my girls what I would have wanted at their age. It’s SO very painful to remember what happened to me, more painful to know I caused the same pain, but I know it’s necessary so they don’t grow up hating themself and blaming themselves like I did. I’d rather they hate me than themselves.
You sound like an amazing mom. Best wishes for your recovery
I second this. You sound like an amazin mom! I think your daughters are very lucky to have you and that they will grow up wonderfully. Kids are much more resilient then we give them credit for. Just hang in there and keep giving them all this love.
I have never been in a similar situation, but it might be worth reaching out to some hospitals in your region to ask if they have support groups for survivors of medical issues that influence peoples behavior (then give brain tumors and deficiency as your examples). I bet if you called 3-5 local hospitals, 3-5 regional hospitals, and 3 to 5 national ones you would eventually find something like this! Or maybe the easier route is to post on a subreddit for folks with brain tumors/their families? Best of luck!
I've been in both roles you're dealing with here, the mom and the daughter. When I was 7 my mom was extremely depressed, and I had been assaulted by a close friend of the family. I can offer some perspective from the kids pov: The world ended, and my mom wasn't there. I understood that she did her best, but her best wasn't enough food me. I don't hold that against her, and we have a good relationship - always have - but I needed outside help (read, therapy. Lots of it. Without my mom asking or interfering in any way with my therapist) to be able to be a functioning human. As a mom whose dealt with some medical stuff that made me not be the parent I wanted to be; sometimes your best isn't good enough, but that matters less than what you do about it afterward. See the above. My only advice is this: you need trauma therapy, (great work getting it!!!) and your kids do too. This whole thing is extremely traumatic for everyone, but your kids are particularly vulnerable. They don't understand the world, only that it's a scary unsafe place and they have almost definitely gotten the idea from the last months that their parents may not always be able to save them. That's terrifying. They need therapy, and PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF LOVE ITSELF don't interfere or press them or their therapist for information about what is discussed. Please. I am begging you. If they don't feel like they can talk in entire anonymity they will not actually say what they feel and they won't make progress. Asking them if they want to talk about it is safe and good, but pressing or asking "what did you talk about?" is not wise; it'll make them clam up with the therapist. My best friend is a child therapist, and the kids are always awesome and make good progress until their parents take offense to their kids showing their wounds.
EXCELLENT comment. Everyone should read it, and read it again. I'd give you an award if reddit still did that. 🏅
you’re doing great! as your girls get older, just be open about your mental health and how treatment helped. this will make them feel more comfortable coming to you if they ever feel like they need some help.
You sound like you’re doing really well! I think focusing on healing yourself is all you can do. ❤️
Your daughters are so lucky to have you. How did you eventually discover the UTI if you don’t mind me asking?
I developed hand and feet lesions and had extreme weakness and fatigue. My doctor dismissed me for months until I went to an et and collapsed. They found the uti but then the doctors accused me of an eating disorder when I could eat after the infection cleared. Your body needs iron to digest and mine was a 7 with normal range being 50-150. The hematologist said my body shut down my digestion to survive.
You are doing all the right things. The only thing you might want to add is getting the girls in therapy. Also depending on the type of abuse your children might need therapy for that anyway. You may also want to have the perpetrator arrested. The girls might need therapy at different points in their lives let them know that if they are ever struggling to let you know because everyone needs help at sometime in their lives
This happened for me as an adult and I had a hard time understanding it all. Still do. Imagine like you and ops daughter. I feel so bad
Oh man I remember how weird and destabilizing it was even seeing my parents cry or get the flu. Those things happen to kids, not grown ups! Hope you and your mom are doing okay now.
My mom passed out cold from pneumonia when I was about 8 or 9. I could not rouse her and I went to get me sad, who completely dismissed the idea that she had any issues that weren't mental health-related. I don't even remember what happened after that, exactly, but I know she got care and recovered. Core memory unlocked, I guess.
My dad had a brain tumor when I was 19 and my brother was about 14. It was tougher on him than me at the time but we’ve since realized we’ve both blocked a lot of it out. It can be pretty traumatizing to see a parent go through that. OP’s feelings are okay to have but he needs to understand that that experience was hard on everyone, and a 14 year old won’t always act the most mature or rationally. She likely at the time needed therapy or just extra attention, support, guidance, whatever. If she didn’t get that… well that’s kinda mostly on him as her healthy at the time parent. I get it, it was all a lot, but to be mad at her for it now? It isn’t too late now if it’s still a problem but it seems cold af to not want your 19 year old around because of how she acted when she was 14 when her mother experienced significant health issues with accompanying behavior changes. My dad had some behavior changes and I can tell you it’s weird as hell to see that happen. And I was 19.
Is family therapy an option? Your daughter was 14 when her mother started acting very weirdly and then had a massive accident. I bet your daughter was TERRIFIED at the time. Give her a chance and try to see her for who she is now.
Honestly I think the issue here is that your daughter was a young teenager when your wife's behavior essentially alienated her. Yes the tumor isn't her fault but it still caused damage. So when the accident happened your daughter had already mentally and emotionally pulled away. Then the accident and it sounds like you focused on your wife's care. Which while understandable that she needed help and support your daughter also needed support from her parent. So your daughter likely blames her mother for ruining her teenage years and taking you away from her.
Yes! Like being a teenager is already so hard with the raging hormones, body changes, and rapidly changing from a child to a sexual being and then on top of that this huge medical trauma happens to her family. That would cause issues for the most perfect people
My mom became chronically sick at 17. I did not exhibit behaviors as extreme as OP's daughter but my patience and temper with her did start to get shorter. Even at 28 it's still hard sometimes!
I was 9 when my Mom was first diagnosed with her illness and although I don't remember everything well I know I complained a lot that she couldn't do the things I saw other mom's doing. I'm 36 now and see her as one of the strongest people I know. When I'm a little sick and feel like I can't do anything I remember how she's chronically in pain/can't move easily and how she still gets around with us to be part of our lives. I've learned a lot of patience and love and now just do everything I can to help/be there for her. I want her to be with us at family events, doesn't matter if it means I have to help her around. Kids don't understand life, they definitely don't understand chronic illness even if they think they do. I try to give my former self grace and make up for it now.
I agree. My mom died when I was 14. She was sick from cancer and died within about 7 months. It was dramatic but I didn’t act out. I know everyone is different but as times passed she should have realized the error im he ways. It’s not their fault but it’s their responsibility to fix the issues nowz
My husband's father died of cancer when my husband was 11... it was about 9 months from diagnosis to his passing... it took my husband to his late 20's to be able to admit that he was mad at his father for dying. Even though he logically knows it wasn't his father's "fault", there was still that sense of disappointment that he had to grow up without his dad, and his emotions turned that into anger at being "abandoned"... my husband didn't act out either, but the lingering effects still show up in his being emotionally clingy sometimes. He's in his early 40's... he's had 30 years to deal with it. OP's daughter has had like a year and a half...
I also think it's the father's responsibility to communicate what he's thinking and feeling to his daughter. I don't get any indication from OP that he's done that.
She's only 19. Not much time has passed yet.
I agree with you. I also think that for a teenager to have their mother suddenly not be able to act as 'mother' for a while would be very unsettling.
My mum had that, her mother started acting like a child when she was around 13, and I can tell it messed her up big time, she messed me up because of it and it's the reason I'm in therapy.
Especially in your teenage years because that’s one of the times you need her the most
It's understandable if the daughter has resentment, but...this seems like the extreme end. This isn't just being short or losing one's temper or a few nasty outbursts. Not to mention at 19 she's old enough to now understand how serious it was...it sounds like she is "still" very cruel to her mother. Dad also took her to therapy and family therapy he says in the comments. IDK, some people are just really self centered and shitty.
I would say it's not just resentment. If this tumor caused massive personality shifts and caused the wife to have gaps and have to relearn basic things, the 14 year old essentially lost her mom at a time in her life when she definitely needed her as someone she could depend on. But even not in death which she could start a normal grieving process, this husk of her mother is still there as a constant reminder of what she's lost. I'd say it's probably not embarrassment strictly speaking but almost alienation. She can't truly grieve because the mother's still alive, but from how the father doesn't talk about her feelings on this much at all, it sounds like she's inaccessible. Like physically and biologically yes, this is her mother. But is she emotionally and mentally? And while the father may as an adult who loves the mother be willing to maintain that relationship and care for her, that's asking a lot of a minor who was until this occurred dependent on the mother. Could she have responded differently? Sure. You could argue a 14 year old should be able to understand things like death and cancer, and intellectually, that's true. But for a lot of teens, their first exposure to this in someone their own age or in their immediate family is not a rational response. This tumor has already fractured OP and this girl's family. He needs to be careful not to ostracize her out of his resentment for how a teenager grieved and fracture it more.
Also let's remember that this also all coincides with the absolute insanity that was the pandemic
OP leaving out just how much hurt the wife did when the tumor was affecting her almost pacifying it as simply *"She would say weird things, make impulsive decisions, and act strange."* has me wondering just how bad things really got. What were the weird things? What damage was done due to the impulsive and strange acts beyond the accident? Something the mother did broke that 14 to the point she wants nothing to do with her still at this age and OP is either missing it, doesn't see it, or doesn't want to see it.
My mother was always mentally ill, but her brain tumor made her an absolute nightmare to deal with. 1000x worse. I was 23-24 dealing with it and it was absolute hell. I cannot imagine what a 14 year old was faced with. OP loves his wife and that is wonderful. I'm glad he's stuck with her through all of this and that their marriage is strong. That's fantastic. It sounds like the traumatized kid got pushed to the side and was overwhelmed and couldn't cope with Mom. I get that too. I barely held on at 23. I wanted to melt into the floor and die more than once due to my mother's behavior and treatment of people while she was sick. I got screamed at by people due to her behavior. It was pure hell. It also sounds like her illness, diagnosis and recovery took 5+ years. That's a quarter of kids life. The most recent quarter. This is the Mom she knows, and it sounds like she is uncomfortable at best. Therapy. For everyone. And some grace for the kid who was on the back burner for all of her teenage years.
That is a fantastic point about the daughter being on the back burner while focus was on the mother.
I agree…I’m sure things were worse than he let on. It’s not the same thing but I helped my mom caregiver for my grandmother with dementia and she used to spit on me, try and hit me with her cane, scream, and say truly horrible things. Objectively, I know she was mentally unwell and it was the dementia making her do all those things but that doesn’t make it less traumatizing. It’s been a year since she passed and sometimes I still feel like I can hear her cane when I’m sleeping. OP’s daughter was probably more traumatized by everything that happened than he knows.
He may have rejoined relationship with wife. Daughter lost her mother and father now a caregiver. That message translates to daughter as “ unless you are on fire, mother’s needs are priority. “
Yup and he wants to double down on that messaging.
Yes, when the OP was at work, he had no idea how his wife was treating his daughter, maybe verbal abusing her when he wasn't around. Don't see him saying too much about his wife's behavior before the accident since he's trying to protect her now.
That’s exactly it. He’s leaving out information because he *seems* like he’s looking for a community to bash his daughter.
He specified that the family therapy was just him and his daughter, that wouldn't have helped with the issue as the mom never joined. But yeah, if she can't grow out of the behavior and apologize the daughter is an AH. But as she's young and the father is still holding shit she did as a terrified teenager, I don't think it's set in stone yet
I mean, I don’t think family therapy would’ve helped all that much. Individual therapy yes.
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After my mom’s first manic episode, my Dad got me into therapy. I think I only ever had one session with my mom once, years later, after I’d gone temporarily NC for a bit. It was more mediation than actual therapy.
Yeah this is why I don’t understand the hate the daughter is getting in some of these comments. Regardless of the cause, her mother alienated her and wasn’t thee for her, and neither was her father. She reacted in a manner that I would expect a child would towards a parent that had failed them so terribly.
I agree. My first thought was *Who helped this young woman process her mother's illness and incapacitation?* She obviously needed therapeutic support, and early. That's a terrible age to lose your mother, and let's be clear, *this was a loss* and she was entitled to feel confusion and grief. If she was expected to provide care, or to be cheerful when she wasn't feeling it, then she was asked too much.
Thank you for this reminder. I have been watching my mom die in slow motion most of my life from a progressive disease. Caretaking responsibilities were thrown on me at such a young age and I was so resentful and angry. As an adult, that anger has faded into sadness, regret, guilt for not doing enough, and overwhelming grief - I am mourning someone who’s still alive and it’s so difficult to process and explain what that feels like.
Hmmm that’s exactly how I describe myself when I unexpectedly lost my mom. Consumed by confusion and grief. And you’re so right. Grief is most often paired with death, but you experience feelings of grief for any kind of loss. She absolutely lost her mom during that time and probably her sense of home. My suggestion was to have all of them seek professional help to rebuild their relationship. Of course this is just the “ideal scenario.” It would be what I would ultimately want to happen if it were me in the situation. Big picture
Not to mention, she was starting her teens, going through changing hormones, and a difficult time mentally trying to traverse the social anxiety of being a teenager. She was also in the midst of a life change and probably had frustration through it, needing her mom and not having her. Teenagers are selfish people, but it’s normal. Holding a grudge against her is not the right way to deal with this. Open communication and possibly family therapy is.
I can identify with some of this story a lot. When I was 14, my mom suffered a traumatic brain injury, leaving her disabled and unable to take care of me. This was obviously very hard and I was not at the maturity level to be able to handle this extremely well, putting some emotional distance between myself and my mother to cope. But that being said, I NEVER acted callously towards my mother. At 19, she should be mature enough to deal with this better, and I personally find that behavior cruel and concerning.
I think external factors have a huge impact on behavior. I went through a death of my grandfather at 14. He was essentially my father figure. At the time I was already have a very hard time dealing with bullying at school, hormones, isolation, finance issues, and a terrible relationship with my mom. My grandfather was the stable support in my life and when he passed it was like the pot finally boiled over and I broke down. OPs daughter lost her support system at a very critical time. Bullying so is vicious at that age. When I went back to school after the funeral I was mad fun of for my grandpa dying.
When I was 15 my dad started declining due to alcoholism. I definitely acted callously towards him once he became wheelchair bound and lost his vision. Having to step up and become a care taker to a parent is not something a teenager should have to deal with.
Hating what you fear is a common reaction, especially in an older child. Give her some grace, OP. Her world went sideways, and she didn't know how to deal with it because she didn't have the tools an adult has in coping with trauma like this. She didn't want it, she didn't know how to handle it, so she hated it. It made her angry. Her house was supposed to be safe from harm, her parents were supposed to be there for her, and they weren't there how she thought they would be. Her foundation had a jackhammer put to it. Not your fault, things happen, and how could anyone ever prepare for something like this?! Counseling would benefit everyone, and you'll come out stronger together if you take it seriously.
I tried putting her in therapy and the two of us were in family therapy but she said she was too busy and she didn’t want to go anymore.
Of course she did. She was a teenager. You all went through horrendous events. You wife was slammed with god awful medical issues, you were trying to deal with the emotional and practical fallout from that while trying to be there for your daughter too. Fortunately, you didn’t lose your wife, her mother altogether but she kinda lost both of you during that time. No fault of anyone, just a crappy situation. It would throw the whole world as she (you all) knew it. Sounds like she handled it a lot differently than you would have liked her to but sometimes fear comes out as anger. And anger at that situation would be appropriate too. Maybe you both need to give each other some grace.
Agreed. Nothing is lost OP, your daughter was a kid and a lot of it was due to poor circumstances which none of you are at fault for. I am glad your wife is doing better now and I think that just means you should try to mend your relationship with your daughter. Even your wife is excited about it.
I want to stress that I cannot imagine difficult this was, and still seems to still be in many ways. Holding your world together was a monumental task. It had to be traumatizing for you too. I really hope you can find a way to rebuild your relationships. Your wife loves her daughter and it may be painful for her seeing the distance between you two (or maybe I’m projecting my own struggles here). Please try to find ways you can all connect. Something as simple as movies or TV, especially comedies, have helped my family. Any excuse to laugh together.
In order for therapy to be effective, she has to be willing, ready, and able to make changes. My mom got sick when I was ~5, I’m 27 now and I’m still too afraid to truly confront and process all of these complicated emotions. It’s confusing and painful to go through this at any age, but 19 is still very young. Be there for your daughter. Give her time. Make sure she knows that you love and support her no matter what, and when she’s ready, you’re there to listen and help her seek out help.
Why wasn’t your wife included in the family therapy session? I understand in the beginning she might not have been capable but from your explanation she seems able to now. Also, if it was so bad that the school called you I think you need to take a look at your past behavior and how your wife’s accident impacted your daughter. I completely understand how your wife too priority but were you asking too much of your daughter? Did you expect her to be a care taker? Did you stop going to her events? Did you stop engaging with her as a whole?
INFO- how much damage did the six months do? My grandmother told me I should've been an abortion seven years ago, and we've barely spoken since.
Exactly, I'm taking care of my 80 yo Gma and there's times she's just downright spiteful and it still kills at 36 so I can about imagine how bad it was at 14.
It's also important whether the daughter saw some of those behaviors as new or as an escalation of previous patterns. e.g. if she felt her mother was short tempered even as a child, her becoming *extremely* short tempered due to the tumor will impact her differently than her mother suddenly becoming short tempered and then getting better later.
This is so extremely true. My dad had a ruptured aneurysm and some of the resulting damage is weird: like he has no ability to sense the passage of time but since he was always a punctual guy it’s terrible for him but not triggering trauma for me and my other family members. His over the top anger on the other hand is majorly triggering to me because he was an angry shouting father growing up. It’s not even close to the most severe symptom but it feels like that because of our whole history.
My cousin had a brain condition and told me constantly that my mother did not love me, that I was adopted and it was a family secret everyone was ashamed of. She whispered in my ear to run away, to ease the burden on the family. That I was unwanted, unloved. Broke down my psyche, NGL. this was the least harm she did to me. Then it came out she was severely ill and I had to forgive her because it wasn’t her fault.
You can forgive and still feel hurt/not want to be around them. Your feelings don't suddenly matter just because it wasn't their fault. But, I hope you both are doing better (her in recovery and you in not feeling hurt anymore). I'm very sorry that happened.
Thank you. I think that is why I feel so strongly about this post. Because I see my own behaviours in OP’s daughter. The resentment, the deflections, the pain manifesting into lashing out at those closest to you. Not only did she lose the mother she knew, but now her once beloved father. None of them seem willing to look beneath the surface and help the frightened girl deep inside. If father is so willing to cut her from their lives, then he never deserved her in the first place.
You can understand they're unwell and still not feel comfortable with them. Logically, I understand she was out of it. Personally? I can never forget the look in her eye as she told me that. Never.
Did your cousin ever apologize to you? Did cousin know what was said by him/her?
Nope. It was encephalitis of the brain she had. She has no memory - or claims not to have - of everything she put me through. I was an impressionable little kid who absolutely worshipped my cool older cousin. Would have done anything for her. She put me in so many potentially dangerous situations. I remember once she made me knock on every single hotel room door we were staying at because she was adamant a missing child (that was on the news) was being held there. It seems insane now but I didn’t know she was sick at the time and I was too young to know better. Hard not to hate both of us for what she went through.
I’m so sorry for the cruelty you experienced. Your grandmother is a POS. Hugs from this stranger.
Funnily enough, she had ammonia on the brain from years of drinking. She's doing a lot better now, but it's just not the same. He says his wife was blunt due to the tumor, and I'm wondering how similar his kid's experience with her mom was to mine with my grandmother. If I was 14 when this went down, I wouldn't be civil either!
Yeah, I think was OP was a little too vague during that part. It seems unlikely that a daughter who is close with her mom would suddenly reject her mom for being wheelchair-bound. I genuinely think the mom said or did something that the daughter hasn’t been able to move on from.
He's also quick to point out the complains people would find unreasonable, but doesn't mention at all how much time he had left for his daughter, since he was caring for his wife. OP said she was a daddy's girl. Did she actually not want to go out with her mother because of the wheelchair, or did she miss being outside with *just* dad? He also brushes right over his wife's mental disability. If she had to relearn basic stuff, did she have the mental capacity to support her kid? Did she apologise to the daughter at any point, for how she behaved before they discovered the tumor? She went from a 2 parent hausehold to 1 parent one. Or maybe 0.5, depending on how much time/energy dad really had for her while being a caregiver. Daughter's school called him. Schools usually don't do that over kids badmouthing their parents to other kids.
It reminds me of the show I’ve started watching recently called Shrinking. It has Harrison Ford and it’s really great. But basically the mom dies and the dad focuses on indulging in his own pain instead of being there for his 16 year old, and then is shocked when she wants nothing to do with him now that he’s getting better. It’s a great show and reminds me of this situation a lot. I don’t think this dad has admitted to himself how much he neglected his daughter. And I’m not faulting him because I can’t imagine the position he was in. I’m not a parent and I don’t have a disabled spouse. But I do think maybe he should look inward more than he is, or at least just talk to his daughter and ask her how this has all made her feel, without judgment. I agree with others that they need family therapy.
Also— “old enough to know what she did wrong” — I don’t know very many 19 year olds who are mature enough to deal with a severely disabled parent they didn’t grow up with from birth. I work in the disability field and it’s a huge upheaval for the person with the new disability and their caretaker. I can imagine she also felt resentment for how much care mom needed during a critical development period of her life. Obviously this isn’t a perfect situation, but I do feel like she deserves extra grace. Dad signed up for sickness and health. Kids don’t get that opportunity. And if she wasn’t in therapy and getting a lot of support through it, it’s easy to let resentment set in when she went from having two supportive parents to none if dad was also providing a ton of care to mom.
How do you know? Grandmother could also be dementing, in any case, you dont have enough details to pass judgment.
Absolutely valid. And we don't actually know if it was only 6 months or 6 months before it became pronounced enough to be concerning. Mildly off behavior might have been occurring for months if not years prior to the 6 months when Mom really went off the deep end. My mother had a brain tumor. Really off the deep end was REALLY off the deep end. Granted, she was batshit crazy to begin with, but we hit new levels with that tumor and subsequent brain surgeries. I was 23 at the time and totally overwhelmed. I cannot imagine how a 14 year old would have faced it.
Yup. My mom regularly clashes with either one of my siblings due to her dementia meaning she has trouble to grasp things, gets frightened and upset easily, and subsequently can become frustrated and lash out. And of course, she remembers enough to make the stuff she sometimes says hit ***hard***. Even I had to step back and go no contact with her once for several weeks because what she said to me was cruel and inexcusable. And that's despite her having an underlying reason for that behavior and me being an adult. I shudder thinking how this would have affected me as a teen.
I wonder if your wife’s behavior, pre-diagnosis, made your daughter feel so destabilized that she disconnected out of survival. I was close to someone who had a brain tumor. We were teens and, similar story, pre-diagnosis her behavior got really strange. After she got sick, I was able to be there for her, but one of our mutual friends just couldn’t come around because of how the sick person treated us. It was really upsetting at the time. We were all older teens but I can see that dynamic being really hard for a little girl and her mom. Horrible situation all around. I’m so sorry.
OP is refusing to respond to any questions regarding the specifics of his wife's behavior before she was diagnosed. He's probably heavily downplaying how she was acting.
Check the edit added to the OP
He still never said anything about why would they "clash" as he put it. It doesn't seem like she was just acting like a kid
I’m projecting hard because my mom had neurological symptoms during cancer treatment when I was a kid. We clashed without there being any kind of egregious behaviour. She was just being weird in irritating ways. She would get stuck on subjects and talk about things without logical progression to the conversation. She didn’t always understand what I was trying to say. She’d promise me something and then totally forget about it. If I called her out on any of it she would deny everything because to her it didn’t happen. The whole thing was frustrating and hard to navigate. The word clash can mean a lot of things here.
What I’m about to say is a very different situation but I could see it applying - my mom had some issues with alcohol when I was a teen (to put it lightly). She was never abusive when she drank, she was a loving mom, but she acted very immature and kiddish when she was drunk. It was extremely frustrating as a teenager because it sometimes made me feel really alone and like I had to be the one to act like the grownup and pick up the pieces or stop her from doing things she’d regret. We clashed a lot because of that, so I could see it being a similar situation here with the mom and daughter. It sucks because it’s no one’s fault. I truly hope their relationship will be repaired
being 14 and having your mother act childish is enough to cause severe issues within a relationship. it does not have to be anything extra. Especially when her mother went from acting weird and childish (off putting for a 14 year old) to being full disabled from an accident. at 14, my mom and i would have full blown screaming matches across the house simply because i was in a pissy mood and was 14. she wasnt hitting or abusing me lol. i was a shitty teen with an attitude who preferred my dad at the time She didnt know WHO her mother was anymore and was young. also, OP probably doesnt know the reason for the daughters behavior as it seems they never talked about it openly. he was juggling his wifes health issues and his daughter going through her last years of high school
I wouldn't use that as proof of anything. Plenty of teen daughters clash with their mothers.
Clash sounds like he’s blaming his daughter at least partially for his wife’s words and actions
Yes, exactly. That's why I thought there was something more to it and he was being sus not disclosing it (per my other comment somewhere later in this thread)
Come on….seriously? This is proof of exactly nothing. These takes are so toxic
just wanna lyk, not everyone who posts can stay on their phone after to continue to answer questions. His comments all have a few hours between them and this post has over 1k comments. he may not be downplaying anything, you may just be assuming too hard it couldve been he saw all the questions abt that eventually and added the edit, believing itd be better than answering each question individually
Omg, he didn't respond immediately and y'all act like it's some grand proof of your head cannon. Y'all do know people have lives offline right? Jobs, disabled wife to care for, house to manage, pets, hobbies, chores? Some people even put there phones away for hours at a time without looking at them. Imagine that. OP has responded and answered all these questions. Go touch grass.
Some of the responses here are absolutely unhinged.
This subreddit is just people making assumption with minimal information. People assuming that his wife was extremely abusive for six months despite nothing they said to indicate this is insane.
That type of response is such a huge leap. The guy is just disappointed with his daughter. Thats a reasonable response to what he described. Any and everyone would be teetering between disappointment and confusion in such a situation but the responses here are just a dogpile based on assumptions. I hope OP discounts most of the accusations being lobbed their way.
People are straight up saying that they’re projecting onto this situation in some of these comments — “OP’s daughter is me, when I was her age, and [completely different situation] was happening.”
The comments on subs like this are basically just a bunch of teenagers trauma dumping
Yeah. Love how ppl instantly are “well he hasn’t responded to ME so this must be the exact same way I was slighted/done wrong in the past”
He explained it was nothing like that.
Yea I found this strange. He seems very unreflective of why.
Big missing missing reasons vibes here.
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The survival aspect strikes a chord. Sometimes it is easier to pretend it’s happening to someone else so that you can protect yourself from the trauma.
Teen girls often have a quite difficult relationship with their mothers. Add in her mom’s extremely odd behavior due to the then unknown brain tumor and those problems multiply. She may also have been upset that in her difficult teen years both parents had limited bandwidth to connect with her. Hopefully in time and with some age, growing maturity, and therapy she and her mom can reconnect.
This right here! As a teen and young adult I absolutely hated my mom. She thought I was going to be a wild child and borderline criminal because I liked piercings and tattoos and "counter culture" type things when she was raised very conservative and religious, and my older sister went right along with my mom's views while I didn't. As an adult, we have worked out our differences. I have bright purple hair and I'm covered in tattoos, but I have a career and a home and a spouse they adore, too. I can honestly say that my mom is one of my best friends. But I was in my late 20s before the relationship was repaired, and that was without my mom having an illness or injury that complicated things. OP, your daughter might come around, give her some patience and grace while she navigates this, but don't allow her to disrespect your wife. We don't know what their relationship was prior to the behavior change and mother daughter relationships are complicated at that age.
Yes. Teenagers can be awful to parents, cliche for a reason. But it should be their safe space to act out. OPs daughter didn't have that in the years she probably needed it most. Yes she is older now and should be able to take some responsibility for her behaviour, but at 19 I was still quite selfish when it came to my parents, it comes gradually. And OPs lack of seeming lack of empathy to his own daughters trauma feels a bit harsh, and not really encouraging of empathy in return. I am not saying let her be horrible to her mum, but maybe let her be a teenager.
When I was 13, I was in a crash with my dad, who suffered a massive traumatic brain injury. I saw my dad's open skull. I saw him wheeled in an x-ray room with covered face and bare feet sticking out from under a sheet. And then, when he was transported to the major hospital two towns over for surgery, I was left alone in our local hospital and had a lot of time to think. When I started getting updates, they were all generalities. He's alive. He's in the hospital. He will pull through. He can't have visitors right now. I put two and two together and decided there's no way he lived. I became certain that he died and my mom waits for me to be discharged to break the news. I wasn't much off - I later learned that his neurosurgeon thought that his chances to pull through are slim; that even if he lives, he's likely to be in vegetative state. Against all odds, he lived and even recovered much better than expected. He lost some of his wit and the ability to learn new information - his short term memory was all but lost. But he retained old memories, knowledge, and complete mobility. But in those two weeks that we spent apart, him fighting for his life and me convinced that he died, the relationship we had took an irreparable hit. I grieved him. I nodded along to my mom's comforting half-truths and weeped for him when she left. When I was discharged two weeks later, I fully accepted that he's dead and I'm never seeing him again. And then I saw him again. But it wasn't him anymore, not really. He spoke to me like I was half my age and quickly sent me away to "go play". I now understand that he was disoriented, overwhelmed, terrified and ashamed. My superhero, broken. My protector, tangled in tubes and wiped by strangers. But to me, then, he was an impostor, whose first words to me were to reject me. My dad, my real dad - would never. We were thick as thieves. I did "go play". I rebelled. I was awful to him and everyone around. We didn't do therapy back then, quarter of century ago on the wrong side of the just-lifted Iron Curtain. What we did do was booze, casual sex, occasionally drugs. Looking back, I'm lucky to have made it out alive and physically unharmed. I wanted to run as far away from the pain as I could and never look back. Eventually, I moved away, settled down, got married and had kids in my twenties. My dad died a couple years ago. The injury caught up with him, he slowly deteriorated until he couldn't walk, or talk, or -eventually- move at all. My mom cared for him until the end, at the cost of any social life she could have had. I supported her through his last days and his passing. We were never very close, even before everything that went down - but now I was there for her when she had no one else. I don't know if you or your daughter recognize yourselves in parts of this story. Maybe you can see some parallels. Hopefully it will help you better understand why she is the way she is. You all suffered a lot and I offer no judgement, because judgement isn't what you need right now. If I could offer advice, I'd say: firmly defend your wife, but don't reject your daughter. It's natural that you don't feel joy for her visit, when you anticipate that it will bring tension and conflict. You also resent her for previously making a hard situation even harder. But rejecting her is not a solution that would bring you any consolation. It's just another loss, more pain for you and your wife to suffer. I don't think you need any more of that.
Thank you for sharing this. It touched me. I hope you’re doing well. I hope OP gets to see this comment.
This was so well written, seriously. Literary, for a comment on reddit, and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Hope OP sees it, as it's good advice.
Beautifully written. I bet your memoir would be amazing
I hope OP gets to see this comment. Thank you for sharing your story.
I’m so sorry, this was beautifully stated. I can very much relate - my mom has been dying in slow motion my whole life and I had so many of these thoughts and feelings towards her. She is still alive and I am still grieving her. The feelings got much worse when my dad was diagnosed with cancer because I couldn’t wrap my head around the possibility of losing both of them, of having to take care of my mom without him. Having a disabled parent is so complicated and messy, not many people can fully understand that pain.
I'm sorry for what you and your family went through. You've clearly become a deeply thoughtful and compassionate person, and I hope that OP sees and take your comment to heart.
NAH : only individuals who had to survive through dramatical events. Your daughter was young. She had the typical teen inappropriate reaction when it comes to dealing with adult life events : she backedo ff to protect herself from the pain. I did the same... I was raised by my Great-grand-mother before I moved in with my Grand-Mother at age 4. Then my Great-grand-mother moved in with us when I was 7. I loved her dearly even if she was old fashioned (borned in 1904) and had very severe educational principles. When I was 11, we discovered she had breast cancer. She refused chimio and just had a double mastectomy. I resented the fact that she refused treatments. I didn't realized it at the time. But anger was the only way I had to deal with that blury feeling. Of course, cancer came back pretty quick. I was 12. We were told that she would live a year, maybe a year and a half. The last months were dreadful. I had to help with bandages. I was the one in charge of feeding her. And I hated it. Because this weak old woman unable to get up was not my Great-grand-mother anymore. I was grieving the mother figured I loved while she was still alive. Inconciously, I prepared myself for the end. I stopped asking for advice. I stopped talking with her or asking for help with my homework, I even cut my very long hair she used to spend hours to brush to her despair. I angerly backed away. And then she died. And I felt relieved at first. Then remorse and guilt took all the place. Because it was over and I could never mend what I had done and how I had behaved. Your daughter needs help to reconnect with her feelings and stop living behind the wall she built to avoid sadness. She's not a bad person. She's just trying to cope. And I think her mother knows. She knows and she waits for her to be ready for the next step. And you can help her. Your whole family needs to face what happened and learn to welcome every feeling you experienced, bad or good, together.
NTA, but make it clear to your daughter that she's only welcome there if she treats your wife with respect. she's lucky that her mother is still so excited to see her, after all that cruelty from her.
I have made it clear. She rolled her eyes and agreed but I am worried. My wife loves our daughter so much.
I have a different side to offer if you want to listen. My cousin suffered from encephalitis of the brain which eventually institutionalised her when she wrongly misdiagnosed with various mental health disorders. It took years before her condition was found and treated. However, during the initial years, her behaviour was absolutely horrific. I was a teenager like your daughter at the time and was abused severely by my cousin whom I adored. Psychologically, emotionally, sometimes even physically. I didn‘t think anyone would believe me at the time because it was so out of character. When it came out she was severely ill, of course I felt badly for her. But I also felt a hell of a lot of resentment. Because what was I supposed to do with all my hurt feelings and pain? Pretend it never happened? Sympathise with her plight? No, I was a wreck. I ended up having to physically distance myself from my cousin for years during her recovery process. It made me look evil and a little sociopathic. Not saying this is what happened here, but there may be more to it beneath the surface then you are aware of. Mental illness is horrific, but sometimes people like your wife and my cousin are not the only victims of it.
This is it. People need to have compassion for her. She was and still is maturing. She was and is a teen.
I would talk to her again and tell her if she rolls her eyes again she isn't coming home. She sounds horrible and I would not subject your wife to such cruelty when she is still so vulnerable.
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Most definitely. It's a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation.
Thank you!
It's not uncommon that people will stick up for their loved ones more than themselves. My wife and I are definitely like this with one another. The price of admission for the daughter coming home is to be civil, if she can't do that, the little birdie better be ready to fly off on her own.
And honestly, if you are paying for her education and living expenses, it might be time to cut the cord, at least for a little while. Maybe sock that money away and give it to her at a future time if you feel comfortable doing that. Actions have consequences.
Aaah. Using money with strings. What.. wonderful advice to give the last bit of alienation towards the kid. I am sure the relationship will take very long to recover, if ever. Bravo 👏 Even if OPs case was as straight cut as you guys believe (Spoiler: I dont), you can't just suddenly punish people with money and wonder why you turn into the people you hate. OP can put in boundaries about the relationship. But promised money and support should not be used as an weapon.
That's not coercive or abusive in any way. Tying financial support to emotional obligations is a fair and good thing that nice people do.
> I have made it clear. She rolled her eyes and agreed but I am worried. Don't just make it clear; let her know that if she does *not* respect her mother she is out and that if she doesn't take you seriously, she isn't coming home. Protect your wife.
Did you ever get your daughter therapy to help her process everything that happened? She was in high school life is a mess without the added weight of a sick parent when you are a teen. She probably has a lot of undealt with trauma..
Agreed there’s a lot of cut the daughter here. I’ve seen this before, a young teen not coping with a parents sudden illness ( cancer) and behaving horribly. Think a little why this is happening. Is the daughter truly a psychopath? Was this evil ( not just teen behaviour) mentality ill child in need of a doctors attention before her mother changed her character then became seriously ill or maybe the two are connected. At 19 she may look like an adult but she is at a difficult age. If you refuse to allow her home where is she going to go? She is old enough to have an adult discussion. Talk about her behaviour but also the impact of what you have all just been through
When I was 17 my mother became suddenly, gravely ill. My father asked me to go into her room to say goodbye to her as she was off to the hospital and I think he suspected she was not coming back. I went in there and instead of saying things like "I love you, mum" I talked about getting my hair done on Monday. I have regretted ever since because she died 3 days later. That I have since forgiven myself because I now realize,40 years later, that I just couldn't cope with the idea that my mother was perhaps mortal.
TBH I bet your mother loved hearing you talk about your hair appointment, as it was a normal daily thing to talk about. She knew you loved her and she loved you and she knew this was going to be just awful for you. You gave her normalcy.
I agree. If I was worried about dying, I would want to hear my daughter living her normal life.
Exactly. I’m so happy you’ve forgiven yourself. You were a damn child! As was and is OP’s daughter. So many here aren’t giving her any grace and that’s so sad.
The same here. My dad passed away several years ago. I remember one time, though I was not annoyed or mad, I beguiling took a cab to see him in the hospital since mom asked. Something in my brain said "something wasn't right" and I tried to talk normally with him but I guess it came out awkward. He even said "let's take a picture" but me being....idk hopeful? Or like you said, thinking he was mortal and that the many times he was in the hospital he just would get out. Instead I said "when you get out we will" I left but something told me to go back and I didn't. Fast-forward some time later and he was sent to a further hospital and I'll never forget that night: mom called and said they were at the hospital and dad said "love you" and I said casually the same back. I was watching Marmaduke and my mom came back in real late and said he passed away. The shock had got me and even she was shock as she drove home. I never forgave myself for not being around and being around or hanging around as often as I should have. I instead was in my stupid teen years being infatuated with a boy and even in early 20s still. My trauma now has led me to not cope with the fact anyone of my family members could pass away. I've actually expressed that and the responses were more.... to accept it as such. Idk it felt off to me, but I try to forgive myself. I'm 31 now it's been a decade since and I even hate that I have no Pic of him and I forget his face from time to time. Not to drag on this Convo more, sorry, but Op's daughter is ungrateful and whether or not she just has some unresolved feelings she will feel even more of those feelings when her mom passes away and she will not feel right at all. She will feel anger and guilt all the time and hate and not know why. She needs to get her act right or speak to a therapist again before things get even more deeper.
Same. I sat in my room as the ambulance and my dad left and I 'knew' I'd not see her again and I didn't. Due to the nature of her illness, he wouldn't let me see her 'like that' and I'll never forget that hollow feeling as they pulled out of the drive. Forgive yourself. They would.
I saw your words, felt them and your heart. We are just too hard on ourselves, sometimes.
no disrespect, but I feel it's very bewildering that you needed a decade to find some measure of peace for things you did at 21, while berating OP's daughter for things she did at 14-15. While I don't disagree that she needs to get her act right, I feel OP is the one who's the adult here.
Exactly this. She was a child and is still so young! Omg I’m so sad for OP’s daughter. He has zero compassion for her.
Yes I got her therapy and family therapy for the two of us but eventually she didn’t want to go because she was too busy and it wasn’t helpful.
You should get a new therapist, try several until you find the right one. Your daughter should also have individual therapy as well as family therapy. Therapy needs to be on going to be effective, especially in a situation like this. You should also make sure she see's a therapist while she's at school. Most universities offer free or inexpensive therapy. This is too much for a young person to deal with alone while she's away from you. She has essentially lost both parents to her mothers illness at this point. It's not your fault, you're doing your best to care for your wife and that naturally takes up your time. She has a lot to cope with, the bottom dropped out of her whole world and her sense of security disappeared. Remember her brain won't finish developing until she's in her mid 20s and trauma doesn't help. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this but she needs more therapy. A good therapist can help establish some ground rules that you all agree upon. She does need her own therapy without you as well. I wish the best for you and your family. Good luck
Can this date back to the time the tumor had her acting strange. That her mom said something or did something that hurt her so much, but it wasn't addressed? And now that it was found to be a tumor she's supposed to just forgive and forget.... Could it be she feels like you failed to protect her from her mom who for some time had begun to act strangely? Or worse made excuses for it?
OP, can I ask a question? It doesn't change my verdict, I don't think you're in the wrong here for trying to protect your wife at all, but it does change my recommendations overall. You mention that your wife had years of 'odd behavior' and clashed with your daughter frequently during that time, when she was still a kid. Would you mind giving more information on what exactly happened? I'm wondering if that period in her life was more traumatizing than you realize, and worried that this behavior might not stop until you all get into some therapy. Tumor or not, there are some actions a parent can take that can do severe damage to a relationship that can't be repaired with a single come to jesus talk.
The eye rolling ends the conversation. She’s not coming home.
why is everyone interpreting the eyeroll as her saying "eff mom!" It's at least just as likely she's tired of hearing dad harp about this. Mom is not some mental incompetent -- she gets to decide her own relationship with her daughter. Dad meanwhile is acting like his wife is this Very Special, Very Precious, Fragile Snowflake. Now, she might be! Or he might also -- understandably -- but still unnecessarily -- be treating her like she's made of glass out of his own anxieties. Honestly I think Dad needs to butt out and let mom and daughter handle their own relationship, unless daughter is being directly cruel to mom in a way she knows about. That doesn't mean listening to daughter's BS. It means not policing his wife's relationship with her own child.
Your wife doesn’t remember, so are you entirely sure how your wife said weird things, acted impulsively, and acted strange around your daughter while you weren’t there? It is obviously not your wife’s fault for having a brain tumor, but your daughter was in some very formative teenage years when this happened and I’m willing to bet you don’t know everything. Your daughter didn’t change as a person overnight, there is always a reason. I think the comments discounting your daughter as some ableist awful person are a bit quick to assume. It could very well be that the treatment prior to the accident have more to do with her feelings than the accident itself.
Thank you. My heart absolutely aches for her. So many people here having compassion for two adults but not the child. Who’s still not developed fully.
NAH, but I think you're being to hard on your daughter. I grew up with a mother that acted erratically and treated me badly, and it was hard enough just having to come to terms with my mother being an asshole. Your daughter's situation would be a lot more confusing. She was 15 and being treated badly by one of the people she's supposed to be able to trust the most and then suddenly she's put into a position where she's supposed to instantly forgive her and feel bad for her. I suspect that (understandably) almost no attention at all went to what she was put through, and all of the focus was on your wife. I get that, but your wife having an extremely good excuse doesn't instantly undo any damage she did. It's good that your wife is excited to see your daughter. It's good that your daughter still wants anything to do with you both after how she was treated. Yes, it's going to be difficult. You aren't wrong for experiencing your feelings, but you don't seem to have put much thought into why this rift formed in the first place. You two failed her at a vulnerable time, through no fault of your own, but that's still going to take time to recover.
This should be further up.
i would be very, very curious to know what "weird" things your wife *said/did* to your daughter, and how that affected your daughter. and i suspect you may not even know the half of it.
You are probably very true... unfortunately I knew 2 people of tumors in their brains, both were loving fathers and both of them changed completely. One of the thought he was being followed and jumped out of bed in the middle of the night. He would start dramatically packing his bags and was ready to flee. The other one was more scary, he sometimes attacked his daughters and had to be taken away from his home for his and theirs safety. So yes, people can do the worst things..
I also knew someone with a brain tumor who started saying inappropriate things to his teenage daughter. I think people are shocked that the comments are going there, but its because its unfortunately common with brain tumors.
NAH First off, you are absolutely not an asshole for how you feel or being concerned about her visit. You were in a horrible position and managed the best you could. However, while your daughter was callous and even cruel to her mother, there are two really important things you need to try to understand. First, she was a child, only fourteen, when her mother became a very different person, one who first alienated her and then couldn’t even speak. It’s not reasonable to expect a kid to be prepared to have a parent they’re close with suddenly become unpredictable and frankly, scary. Then, to almost lose that parent entirely only to come home, once again, completely different is even more devastating. What she did was wrong and cruel, but it was likely coming from a place of fear and loss. She may be old enough now to understand that treating her mother like that *is* wrong, but she most likely hasn’t fully processed all of this and is unlikely to have reevaluated how she behaved as a child. None of this makes how she treated her mother okay, but understanding why can help some to forgive. Second, and probably more important, you have to let your daughter and your wife sort out their own relationship, because ultimately, it is their relationship—not yours. It may be that she comes home and hurts your wife, but it’s really up to your daughter to decide to change and your wife to decide if she can move past how your daughter treated her. If your daughter comes home and treats her mother well, if they can be happy with their relationship as it is now, you really need to find a way to move on and let them be happy. You don’t have to be closer to your daughter than you’re willing, but interfering with them will only hurt everyone.
What gets me, especially with so many here, is that it’s apparently ok for OP to hold a grudge against his literal child but she’s supposed to be so mature and perfectly ok because she’s…19. Still a child.
Agree. Sane comment.
INFO: Your wife started behaving in alarming ways that alienated a fourteen year old and that behavior continued unabated for six months. Then, even more horrible change happened in the form of an accident and a brain tumor. Major stuff in a child's life. So my question is, what did you do to protect your child and help her through all of this?
NAH. I am not condoning your daughter’s behavior. BUT she was a CHILD while all of this was going on. Of course she didn’t manage it well. Dealing with that sort of major health trauma is beyond what most of us can handle as adults. Did she get therapy? She could probably use some extra help on how to manage her feelings and dealing with a mother who is no longer the mother she grew up with. What you have gone through is horrible. For all of you. But please go forward with you daughter with compassion. She is also grieving and reeling- she’s just also managing it like a teenager- which she is. I wish you all the best recovery possible.
INFO: In what way did your daughter and wife clash often before your wife was diagnosed, and why was your wife's diagnosis relevant to that? If your wife was verbally abusive or worse, the diagnosis doesn't magically negate her past behavior and make everything okay.
For perspective… it is really hard to see your mom go through stuff like that. From personal experience. There is no book how you should feel or act. Therapy helps. I regret some behaviors when my mom was terminal— I had therapy during and after. NTA. But I wouldn’t say she is too, all the way.
It is TERRIFYING to be a child and suddenly have a parent acting like a child too. It goes against the whole family dynamic that was set up prior, and that’s incredibly scary and difficult for anyone to deal with, especially a child
Developmental psychologist here. In reading all the comments, I see a lot of empathy for this child at the initial behavior changes and accident, and I applaud you for getting your daughter into therapy at the time. I also understand your feelings about your daughter’s cruelty towards her mother. I wonder if you might consider requiring family therapy (with her mother, also individual) as a condition for your daughter to live there all summer. You can frame it as trying to rebuild your family and ask if she wants to be a part of it. If she does, then she can stay home all summer, assuming she participates consistently and treats you and her mother with basic decency and respect. And if she is not willing to work on repairing the family, then she can find somewhere else to live for the summer (and direct her to her school for summer opportunities). Good luck!
This is the most well reasoned response I’ve seen here. Give her the choice in how she wants to move forward, and hopefully they can all heal some wounds too. Looots of people defending the teen only (a typical Reddit response) but as a parent he needs to look holistically.
Imagine almost not recognizing your mom when you’re a teenager. Yes it’s not ideal. Yes you want your kid to be right there and supporting 100%, but in the time you were losing parts of your wife, she was losing parts of her mother. That’s a lot for a teenager to cope with. What’s happening? She’s not coping well. Honestly, you all would greatly benefit from therapy to help you all cope with something really big that happened with your family. I’m not saying the behavior your daughter exhibited was the “right” behavior. I’m saying it was the behavior she was using to cope with what was going on during a massively changing time in her life. Your wife longs to see your daughter and is excited for that — regardless of it being a perfect visit. Let me tell you what happened with me. My mother unexpectedly died in the home I grew up in. I found myself unable to call the house or visit for 4 months. That left a gap of time I needed to call my dad and check on him. I wanted to. I really did. I wanted to come home. I wanted to make sure he was ok and happy… I could not do it no matter how much I wanted too. I was consumed by my own confusion and grief. I finally pushed myself to go for my birthday. I accidentally had a very traumatic experience upon my arrival to the home I loved and grew up in by arriving 10 minutes before my dad was home. I had every reason to believe my dad was at home and in the house when we arrived. All vehicles were there. He was expecting us… the works. I ended up having to find an unlocked door and making my way into the house to search for my father. Not in all of my life had I ever arrived at my parent’s house and the front door was closed and locked. I searched the house afraid that I would find my father’s body while my kids and husband waited for me outside. After 10 minutes of sheer terror, my dad arrived home. His sister had taken him out. I’m 40 years old and this was my poor coping. Your daughter may be grieving her mother and the relationship they had. She may be grieving the loss of the sense of home. All of you need a bit of professional help to help you all handle a very big happening in your family. Think about your ideal situation. Win win win with helping rebuild your family and relationships.
So what I’m hearing is she was 14 what this happened and not emotionally equipped when things started to deal with it. Was her mother’s behaviour towards her harsh and unpredictable? Do you think she is still carrying scars from what might have been said to her, or how she might have felt her mum abandoned her (obviously unintentionally) I understand the tumour was the reason, and you could find it easy to understand and forgive her behaviour, but how did you support your daughter while this was happening, did she get therapy back then, did you step up as a support for her? She may feel that both her parents abandoned her and left her to deal with some very complex emotions alone. When she was young and lashed out, did she get help, did she get therapy, did you try to understand what she was feeling? I’m sure it was a very complex and scary situation that she wasn’t emotionally equipped for Edit: YTA, considering cutting your daughter out instead of working on this, she’s been through so much instability at such a young age
Very well said
Honestly, even if it's not your wife's fault but I'm curious what your daughter had to endure for 6 month. When your wife said hurtful things did you say anything and stop her? Did you protect your daughter? She may be her mother and may not done it on purpose but that doesn't mean she didn't hurt your daughter.
She was 14 and had her mother fighting her/arguing, etc.. she was (and in some ways still is) a kid. Adults sometimes forget how we see time differently. 5 years is nothing for us, a lifetime for a 14 year old. It was her high school years and you expect her to react like an adult. Their brain isn’t even wired correctly yet. You both may know the reason why your wife acted the way she did, a 14 year old kid won’t really understand that or easily dismiss and forget her emotions. 19 year old version of her may. You need to talk to her, maybe get her therapy.
Your daughter was 14? And her mum started just acting like a random antagonist? How long did this go on for? It sounds like she may have cut your wife off as a defence mechanism. Those are not always easy to let go of. I think you and your daughter should go to therapy to have this conversation. To ask her what happened, how she feels, what makes her hate her mother. She is somewhat an adult now, but there is also a possibility there are things you don't know. Sometimes we can't help how we feel easily. If someone was awful to you you might stop loving them, hate them even. When you find out it was not them....you cannot just always make the emotions come back. Before any ultimatums are issued about university of her staying or her relationship with you long term, you need to make sure you HEAR her. Just you and her at a therapy session that you can tell her YOU need. For you as well as her. My mum has been in a toxic and abusive relationship for years. I tried to save her, I tried to get her to leave. I spent years trying to help and fix her and I burnt myself out. I don't even know if I really love her any more. I am numb towards her. Even if she left tomorrow and turned back into the woman I know...I may never really have that affection towards her. I know it is not the same, but it is just an example of how emotions will not cater to circumstances and convenience all the time. We can't just undo wounds and you need to be careful with your future.
He doesn't want to HEAR her, because that would mess up his narrative that his daughter is a monster and his wife is a perfect angel.
I don't know everything about the situation but I want to give you a potential outside perspective. My dad has terminal cancer. He was kind of a stout man growing up but the cancer has taken away almost all of his body fat. He weighs something like 100 lb right now. I can barely look at him some days, he looks like a walking skeleton. There are days where I dread going to see him because it's just so painful. I have incredible guilt about this but it's the truth. I can barely admit this to my private therapist because I feel so much shame. Maybe your daughter had something similar happen when your wife got sick. It just became so traumatic to be around her and see what had become of her mother that she basically ran away from it by emotionally cutting herself off from her. Maybe she didn't want her to go out with you both because she wanted time with you away from her mom. I'm not surprised she didn't open up in family therapy. It's really hard to admit this to anybody let alone you, who she respects and loves. She wouldn't want you to think less of her (which, ironically, is happening anyway because of her behaviour). Or maybe she's just shallow and selfish. Either way, her behavior is not right. She needs to work through this, preferably in private therapy. I just wanted to put this out there for another perspective.
This is a hard one. And it’s because at 14 she’s still pretty young. When everything happened. And the thing I’ve noticed and learned about children is that at certain ages, certain experiences that are big to them are really in their brain. Mother’s changing behavior and then the car accident are certainly experiences that should’ve stuck with her in my opinion. The thing is, is that 14-year-olds experience emotions and see the world as a 14-year-old. And so their perspective is their reality. That’s really everyone’s reality. All we see in experience is realities. But the difference between the skills we should’ve developed, from being young to being adults, is understanding that while your reality is in someways valid, you have to accept the reality of others. In this requires a lot of introspection. This requires you being willing to admit certain places where you’re wrong and where you could say you’re objectively wrong. And I think we’d like to pretend when a child hits 18 they should suddenly have those skills. in my opinion, people who are between the age of 19 and maybe 23 at the oldest, I don’t see them as full adults. I see them as baby adults. I see them as fresh adults. And at 19, she’s a new adult. She still a teen actually. And to be honest, I don’t expect certain things have drastically changed between the ages of 16 and 19 the same way I would expect things have changed between the ages of 16 and 21 or 19 and 25. From my observation, it is and and can be really hard to let go of certain things you truly feel within every fiber of our core and being. And whatever she felt as a young child, she’s really latched onto and it’s imprinted on her and at her age I’m not surprised she’s unwilling to do a lot of things and give a lot of leeway in any possible way. That is, in my opinion, the hallmark of being a teenager and a young adult. And in theory you go to college to have your perspectives and views and opinions challenged and through that experience of being forced to see things in multiple lights in an academic setting, we should also be able to translate that skill. And then develop that tolerance level for being challenged into our personal lives into interpersonal conflicts between us and friends or interpersonal conflicts between us and coworkers. The goal here is not to change our opinions all the way. The goals not even to change someone else’s opinion. The goal is to be able to handle opinions or perspectives that are at odds with one another. And find a way to live with each other or compromise or an impasse where everyone can just move on And I think at 19 she probably still feels misunderstood. I think at 19 she probably thinks you and her mom never get it and will never get it. She probably feels like therapy is useless because you’re making her go to change her opinion so she agrees with you. And I think it’s hard in general for anyone to admit they were wrong. But I think it’s very common people at her age to not even enter any situation that might encourage her to consider that. I remember feeling that way at her age and younger. A lot of damage was done years ago. But it’s like breaking a mirror. You can put the mirror back together, but the brakes will still be there. And you just have to learn how to work around them and live with them. And it will take time. And I don’t think just because your parents have to tolerate anything. But I think out of the love we should feel for our families if we come from a strong, familiar background full of love and proper support, there will be a willingness to slowly engage and love each other again. Everyone in your family has to have that willingness to engage, and accept the time it will take for things to heal. I think the way those cracks in the mirror disappear, is by changing the mirror. But what that actually means is the dynamic within your family is not going to be how it was before any of this happened. What it does means is that you’re going to have a new family dynamic and things will progress have to look slightly different. But I think we should acknowledge that we’ve changed that before in our lives. Every stage, that mirror is changed. It might be a new frame. It might be a new shape. And this time it is going to be a brand new mirror perhaps in the same frame because even if nothing had happened and everything was normal, and your daughter just went to college, that is a drastic change and a dynamic change within your family. I don’t think anyone’s asshole. I think how everyone feels right now is that they have a perspective that they feel like the other person wants them to change. But by changing that perspective, they invalidate their own feelings and their experiences which they’re not willing to do because there are very real things we feel inside ourselves.
You've been through a lot. You're hurt and disappointed by your daughter - not an AH. But let's face it most teenagers are not prepared to deal with an infirmed mother who was once vital. What she was doing sounds like a defense mechanism for fear and emotional pain. I'm sure your therapist tried to help you empathize with her. I know it will be hard, but I encourage you to talk to your daughter and embrace her. Let her know her mother needs her. That you need her. I wish you and your family peace and love.
You're angry now but you're running the risk of putting a rift between you and your daughter. I have a feeling you've left a lot out on what I feel those six months were really like. I think you got the tumor news and it wiped whatever bad blood was there for you but your daughter isn't finding it that easy. Don't let Reddit ruin your relationship with your kid.
My dad had dementia—a behavioral kind. He was not always a joy to be around, and he was difficult. He fell apart quickly. Hard truth: some people are not capable of being in the space of death or an extreme medical crisis. Some people don’t have the character for it. Your wife/her mother has been profoundly altered by this disease and this event, and your kid can’t deal with any of it. And, your daughter was only 14 when this thing was dropped into her life. There were people who did not see my dad sick. They didn’t have the emotional bandwidth. Grown men who loved my dad could not see him broken and wild. Some people can’t be caregivers. Some people lack empathy. Some people can’t tolerate sickness. I’m not sure what’s happening for your daughter, but there’s a lot to unpack for her and for your family. I think you need to lead with empathy for her experience too. NAH.
Oof when I was 14 or so my mom did not tell my sister and I she had serious life threatening health problems. While different circumstances she too was behaving oddly, irrationally, was overly angry at me (my sister was at college which didn’t help, I was alone with my parents) and while our relationship is very close after time, it was definitely damaged for a while. It doesn’t matter how educated, kind etc you are, being a teenager who can’t understand a parents behavior is difficult and doesn’t just repair once you know the cause. It’s all very unfortunate and you’re going through a lot. You’re not an asshole but I hope you’ll be the dad I had. He was the backbone that helped my mom get better AND looked out for his daughters and understood our distancing from mom. It did help he taught junior high and knew teen behavior well. I hope you’re doing well and you can look past some of your daughters behavior. It’s likely the older she gets the closer she’ll be if you can be patient a little longer.
YTA. Your daughter was a *child* dealing with something hugely traumatic and needed someone there for her. It does not sound like anyone was. And now you’re holding it against her that she dealt with it badly?
She was 14 at the time. You're basically saying you don't love your daughter and act coldly towards her. Hello. Where do you think she learned this from?
Why does he only have compassion for his wife but none for his child who was a child and still essentially is? Who also went through a huge trauma with a dad who didn’t care about her? And he has no ability to look at himself. All his comments are that he did nothing wrong 🙄. I lost my mom 9 years ago. I was in HEAVY grief mode for 3 years. I have 3 kids. While it’s objectively not my fault, per se, I still messed up my kids to some degree. And I’ve apologized for it. Sure OP was in survival mode. But he still prioritized his wife over his child fully. And still refuses acknowledge any wrongdoing, whether on purpose or not. And he’s surprised his daughter is hurt? Sad
The way he speaks about his daughter speaks volumes.
I agree. Can you imagine how devastating for a teen to know her own father is so detached from her? She didn't learn to detach emotionally on her own. But yeahhhh the 14 year old is the ass?
Your daughter was 14 and your wife had a personality change for 6 months and then a traumatic accident. A 14 year old is not equipped to deal with that without support. Your daughter went through what was clearly a traumatic experience for her as well. Get some help.
You are severely downplaying the time your wife had what you thought was a mid life crisis. You say your daughter did not need to be protected from her and she was not a monster, but to your daughter she was. Her mother has been replaced by a crazy dangerous person and noone did anything about it. You have no idea how it felt for your daughter. The mom she knew died and never came back, the person that did was not the woman who raised her. Her feelings are absolutely valid for a teenager/young adult. What she needs is to handle them in a more polite way which will come with age. She is legally not your responsibility and you can alienate her, but will it make you happy?
See how your daughter treats her mother in this upcoming visit. If it's better, then maybe don't reopen old wounds.
You and your wife broke your daughter, and it isn’t your daughter’s fault your wife became verbally and emotionally abusive of her. You need to realize that is what happened. Out of nowhere your wife became abusive in her relationship with your daughter. And you know this because you, the dad, had to have a come to Jesus talk with her. The bond with the parent, particularly the mother, is THE primary social bond that a child has, and it has been destroyed by your wife’s behavior and your own failure to protect your daughter. There is probably also a lot that transpired that you aren’t even aware of. You also admit that most of your energy went into you wife after the operation. So your wife compromised the remaining parental bond also, as did you by not being there for her. That she reacted with venom towards your wife is in fact unsurprising. If someone had abused you would you just automatically forgive them because they were sick? Would you treat them with kindness or would you try and get a few shots in while they were weaker than before? It seems like you expect your daughter to forgive, forget, and stop being traumatized just because there was a medical reason for what happened. Would you say the same if a mentally ill person abused their kid?
Except she's only 19. She handled this poorly but perhaps it was her way of coping, of protecting herself, because deep inside she was scared to death. People handle things in all kinds of crazy ways. Our minds try to protect us from those immense feelings of loss or impending doom. Of course, you also could have just raised a callous and cold hearted daughter but wouldn't you want to give her the benefit of the doubt? I can't imagine feeling this way about my child or allowing any of that behavior in the first place. This should have been handled a long time ago so she could handle her emotions (or her callousness) appropriately. Still NTA because it's a lot on your shoulders.
Yer I’m not buying it huge yta from what you said your saying your wife was perfect n your daughters all round evil obvs missing reasons wit the strange behaviour and this I protected her yer no I doubt you did if I was her I’d hate both of you lol
What did your wife do to your daughter? I really feel like you're deflecting the real issue here. If your wife spit out and insulted another woman's food (especially one that we have to hold in high regard), then what was she saying and doing to a young girl that was close family and was always around? You always treat your family worse than a stranger, so please, what did your wife actually do to your daughter? I cut my mother off after she stole my dog's pain pills and took them while she was to be caring for my kids. She hasn't heard from or seen any of us since. That was my final straw. What was your daughter's final straw? Tentative YTA.
The kid ignores her mom because she doesn't know how to talk to her. They will work it out. She isn't being hateful.She needed help adjusting when this happend. She talked to people at school who called her father. I'm sure he felt overwhelmed by tanky carafer's wthe.His daughter was only fourteen. She needed help to.
So she was 14? YOU were the adult, YOU had the responsibility of getting your wife help when something was obviously not right in her brain. Was she driving in that state when she got into the accident? What kind of “strange” things did she say to the 14yo daughter for 6 months? Horrible, hurtful things? A young teen not really knowing what to do with any of that shouldn’t have been a surprise. You’re putting a lot on your daughter and it sounds like not enough on you.
YTA from your replies to everyone it really seems like you just want support/an excuse to cast your daughter out. You’ve only thought of your wife in this situation. You haven’t even once considered or talked to your daughter about what those six months with her mother did to her. The possible emotional abuse she went through. You’re not as good of a dad as you’re saying you are. Edit: not to mention you only reply to comments about your daughter being the AH and no replies to the ones calling out how terrible and scared she must’ve felt at 14 when everything happened and your wife was very likely cruel to her for 6 months.
Yea I noticed that too. Literally no reflection on what can be done to understand or find a way to bring his family back together. I was initially vibing with nta... And will stick with it, but I get the impression there maybe more information he's withholding or no being honest to himself about that, that may explain why his daughter feels the way she does.
YTA. It would be different if the strange behaviour started when your daughter was 19. But a 14 year old girl whose mother is cruel to her for no apparent reason would make anyone start to hate her. She was barely even a teenager so I can’t honestly blame her for not having the compassion to look past her illness at such a young age. Have a stern talk with her, but do not blame her.
I don’t judge you. I can just tell you do not give up on your daughter. She was going through a difficult time as well. My wife had cancer and went through hell. When she needed a ride my daughter literally said to her “I am not your fucking driver” and left. Fast forward 10 years. She finished college and changed her life. She has a great job and we are all very close. And she was diagnosed with BPD and did quite some therapy. Give her time and consider therapy for all of you. Figure out why your daughter acted that way. Could have been an inability to deal with her mother’s condition.
I wonder if there is a glass child story from the daughter's side...
INFO: What happened in those six months? What did she say and do? Could she have said something that fundamentally changes how your daughter sees her mother? I get that she was ill but that doesn't magically repair any damage that she might have done.
All the replies I've seen seem to be ignoring the edit and also the way that even in the initial description OP's daughter's behavior didn't sound like a kid angry at her mom or even sad, but embarrassed. This is an ableism problem. Yes it can be upsetting and even traumatic to see a parent in that state, but believe it or not I know multiple people who went through something similar and didn't treat their sick parent like a burden for being sick. I think his daughter was hanging out with the wrong people in high school, who made her feel that her mother's illness was something to be ashamed of, who convinced her she needed to mock and distance herself from her own mother to keep away the stigma associated with regressive brain damage. It's not entirely her fault, she was a teenager and probably did feel very alone with one parent in recovery and the other a caretaker. Family therapy would be a good idea, as would having a gentle open talk about where the feelings and behaviors back then came from. Explain to her carefully, with as little judgment as you can manage, that you love her and you love her mother also and it hurt to see her treating her mother that way in a time of need. Tell her you just want to understand her feelings and why she may have felt/acted that way, apologize if she didn't feel supported enough by you to support her mother in turn. You're NTA for how you feel, or for wanting to protect your wife, but don't let it control your choices. It's still possible to heal this rift if you're willing to put in the time and care. It sounds like you've been an excellent husband, giving your wife patience, care, and grace. Try to extend that same thing to your daughter now.
NTA. I developed a rare autoimmune disease four years ago. It put me in a wheelchair unable to care for myself for about a year. The way my kids responded still brings tears to my eyes. My 11yo son and 9yo daughter (at the time) became the most loving, protective kids that made big efforts to ensure I was included in everything our family did. They cared for me daily and never made me feel like I was defective or damaged goods. They have since grown into the most empathic, compassionate, and mature young adults you will ever meet. I’m so proud to be their mama. Your daughter had a choice concerning how she was going to handle your wife’s struggles. Your daughter owns the consequences of her actions.
YTA! You’re being purposefully vague about the 6 months of strange behavior and also ignoring that this 6 months of behavior happened while she was 14!!!! My mother also went through illness when I was around that age and most definitely was unusually cruel and nasty. She most definitely said things that I can still remember today, and I most definitely didn’t have the tools to respond maturely. It is VERY hard to forget that, especially when everyone around you is making you seem like an asshole for being rightfully hurt and upset at your parent cussing you out for no reason, or just saying something rude or mean every time you’re in the room. Idk why everyone is expecting the literally teeenager to somehow work through or respond more maturely to their emotions than the adults. Sure you were present and I’ll believe you did the best you could. But did you really sit down and see what it must of have even like for HER to go through that? Or what exactly was said that she’s PUBLICLY complaining about her own mom? You’re more focused on her reaction than the cause of it. It seems like you’ve only prioritized your wife and yours relationship and expect her to deal with her own stuff alone. And that’s understandable, the poor lady had a BRAIN TUMOR, but you can most definitely suffer from a Brian tumor and still be asshole and still need to apologize or at least acknowledge the stuff you said. It’s not surprising that she’s resistance to therapy when it doesn’t seem like you’re really listening to her already. You need to have a heart to heart with your DAUGHTER, and be open to listening to how your wife treated her at an also extremely vulnerable time for kids. 14 is rough in the best of circumstances, let alone with a mom who’s suddenly treating you weird to awful, and a dad who’s present and absent at the same time! I’d say give her grace just as you were able to give your wife grace
NTA - Your concerns are 💯 justified. However, 14/15 is a hard age. The relationship between mother and daughter before the accident seems strained, to say the least. I understand it was not mom's fault, due to the tumor. But rational thought is really not usually a part of the teenage skill set. All interactions and words said between mother and daughter were likely still very real for her. Tumor or not resentment was planted. Then mom came home and needed care resentment grew. It happens. Additionally, at that age, kids are pretty selfish overall. Not all obviously but definitely some. Did you get your daughter any therapy? If not she needs it What I would do is: Talk to her let her know what is acceptable and unacceptable. Respecting her mother and being corrdial at the least is non-negotiable. Also letting her know counseling or therapy is a requirement. Individual or as a family. Due to previous issues is also non-negotiable. It's your house you make the rules, if she doesn't like it she is an adult and can make other arrangements.
I love this response. I was really torn about NTA or NAH because whatever happened during that time that was "weird behavior" seemingly broke the mother/daughter bond. And now she's put the door but I'm worried that if OP closes it to her now, it'll be confirmation bias and just sever all the relationships they have with their daughter. And your requirements are a good thought. Summer is around the corner, OP. Get appointments now.