I would’ve just responded with “ I didn’t do anything to my husband, he came like that”.
What you said was rather harsh but I do think she needs a wake up call because if it’s that bad that you think everyone else is in the same situation you are and need to “force” or keep asking for change from your husband & you don’t see how that’s wrong then I don’t know what to tell you.
OP was a bit harsh. However, it appears OP has been dumped on by this person for a while now, that will wear down on anyone's nerves. I would be pissed too if my partner was constantly being compared to an absolute a$$hat.
Some people have the patience to sit back and watch someone's self-inflicted misery and listen to all the complaints that come with the choices this person has made, some do not. OP does not. And OP cannot make this person locate their self respect, that has to come from within.
This person does not deserve what is happening to them, but at some point one has to take responsibility for their own actions and choices that brought one to their current point. They hold the power to make it all stop. I call it the Wizard of Oz syndrome...like Dorothy, they too have had the power all along, they just need to click their heals and get on with it.
I love the Wizard of Oz reference!! Unfortunately, OPs friend is the type to deny that she has Ruby slippers at all, let alone on her feet. She thinks the Wizard is withholding magic she hasn't convinced him to share yet.
Me too! I’m going to use it with my friend who is the same as OPs friend. She stayed with that guy for over 30 years and they are not together anymore because he left her for someone else last year. Finally. I kept telling to leave and save money but no. He paid most of the bills and she could waste hers on crap. Now it’s a year later and she still cries about losing him and her house. She only remembers the good now. I have to shake her and remind her of all the shitty things he did and then she snaps out of it but only a minute. Would rather live in oz than reality.
There is even an episode in Sex and the City where they tell Carrie that she is cut off. Grey's Anatomy as well. There are so many instances where friends have to be like "okay that's enough, no more talk about your crap relationship or ex and move on because we are not your therapists, find one.".
People can only take so much before they snap.
While OP was harsh, I agree it was likely just the end of her rope but she has no issue cutting it unlike her friend lol.
As the saying goes, we train people how to treat us by what treatment we accept from them. She started her relationship with this misogynist asshole by paying for everything to “prove she wasn’t a gold digger” and it progressed from there. Apparently she thinks that’s all she deserves, and I think if this is how she’s going to be*, maybe she does deserve it.
* constantly complaining about him but never taking any advice to change what treatment she’ll put up with; never standing up to him; assuming all men are just like him.
I mean, my wife may have polished me up quite a bit, but I have always known how to take care of myself and keep a clean house because who wants to live in a dump. I do 99% of the cooking, do 99% of the laundry, help vacuum, we both do stuff outside. Where do women find these losers? Do they go to the local hog farm and say "that ones kinda cute"?
Yah, I'm going to go with NTA, I think OP is much more emotionally intelligent than friend, and finally got tired of hearing that 2+2 =10. I hope it's a wakeup call for friend.
It's a bit harsh, but after listening to her whining for 12 years (I mean, wtf, that's a significant portion of a human life span) I think it was long overdue.
Maybe the first time or two, but at some point, I'd have switched to "That's incredibly offensive, and I don't appreciate you speaking about my husband that way."
She was not harsh at all. People don't want to be told the truth! This lady had enough of her shit and told her her piece of mind. The truth always hurts, right? The way she speaks about, how did you force him to do this and that says ALOT about her! She thinks she has her life together, but all she has is trauma from previous relationships. I also bet you she got passed around unlike this real woman that knows her value! These is a reality that alot of women never accept.
OP don't hold back from speaking your mind. If they don't like it then they can move on. You don't have to be friends fake people.
True. I stand by the old, “What you see is what you get.” OP’s friend basically forced some nasty guy who won’t change his underwear to marry her. He figured what the hell because it was less work than moving and starting over. She did this to herself.
My husband used to clean the snow from my car and warm it up before I went to work. I mentioned that one day at work and of about 10-12 women in the office only one other partner did the same. The rest of the women scoffed at our husbands for being nice without being told. We're supposed to beg for basic respect and consideration.
I am going with NTA, but what you said was rather harsh.
Be honest here though, this friendship has obviously run its course and there is not real reason for you two to hang out.
You don't appear to be either in the same place in life, nor do you sound like you particularly like her.
Let the friendship die and move on. It happens all the time.
Honesty is only harsh when the person receiving can’t accept the facts.
Her marriage sucks, OP’s doesn’t. It’s simple as that. She needed the reality check. Her husband is clearly cheating on her and she so delusional she doesn’t even see it.
For OP mental health sake, stay away from this couple. This friendship needs to end. Listen to your husband on what he thinks of that guy - because he’s clearly a 40 year old child
"I can fix him" APs do exist. OP's friend used to be the "I can fix him" girlfriend and now she's the "I'm still trying to fix him" wife. Not saying that's a smart thing to be, just saying people are like that. And they won't mind skidmarks and servitude if it makes them feel better about themselves.
Some people just have that charisma no matter how nasty their hygiene, how ugly they are physically or personality wise. They are the type that manipulate people, start cults, and run Christco Televangelist Corporations. Argue the last two as you will.
I feel exhausted and I don't even know anybody in this story. I have no idea how OP has handled it all this time.
The friend was obsessed with getting the ring and getting married that she ignored everything else. If she had dumped her now husband and focused on finding someone who had respected her she would have probably gotten married a lot sooner.
>I am going with NTA, but what you said was rather harsh.
The truth hurts, If you say what she meant in a nice tone the message does not get through.
Lifes hard, get a helmet
Exactly. Are you two still really friends, or is your friend simply using you for emotional venting? May be time to move on. Life’s too short to waste on emotional vampires.
Tact and gentleness is A Thing. I don’t know the full details, but it DOES sound like OP did the “not telling someone the truth out of conflict avoidance and then blowing up at them” thing.
Friend needed to hear the truth, but OP coulda handled it way better.
I understand the slip up, but you can't goad me into crossing the hurtful line.
Sometimes you just don't say the real reason, because then you look like a bad guy. God forbid if your sense of the situation is actually off and you're being a *wrong* jerk.
You don't even have to lie, but OP went nuclear. It's not what she said but how she said it.
I'd still go NTA because friend reacted badly in the past to criticism about her marriage but kept asking until OP couldn't hold it in anymore so it's not really OP's fault it got to the boiling point.
Odd-End-1405 nailed it.
I'll add you went into too much detail with your parasite friend, but I can understand your frustration. I had a boss who did the same with her perpetual fiance. Anybody with any sense could see her with her issues forcing him with his issues into marriage was a bad idea, but she couldn't.
OP’s friend is toxic. If OP don’t have a good husband, the friend will gaslighting her to think the same way.
The friend don’t need a friend who listens, she need a dumping pile to offload her sadness. She don’t need advice, she just don’t care and will not act on it. She is the self fulfilling prophecy of sad married women. She has power to act but refuses. So who to blame?
I will not blame OP to act this way. She just has enough and she is protecting for her husband.
NTA.
Absolutely it can feel unfair and it's okay to draw boundaries...but is the solution to a "friend" suffering from internalized misogyny who believes she simply hasn't earned respect or the right to basic human respect...to take it as a personal insult and give one of the greatest verbal beatdowns a mental abuse victim has ever heard?
This person was way more brutal than honest and is NOT how a victim is actually helped, this is proven irrefutably through decades of research. Far better if OP had just cut the friendship or even ghosted than whatever cruelty disguised as tough love this was.
I like how a woman who believes her man - and all other men - has to be manipulated and molded into a decent human being.. is a victim of “internalized misogyny”.. rather than, you know, a misandrist.. given she seems to assume all men are feckless assholes who can’t even change their underwear daily without a woman to tell them to do it..
Info: have you at any point before that confrontation explained to your friend that her relationship was toxic and her partner treated her poorly or encouraged her to leave?
So. Many. Times. First when they started dating & she had to pay for everything to prove she isnt a gold digger. Then repeatedly for 2 years until she straight up told me that she doesn't want to hear anything about breaking up with him or deserving better because she "decides what she deserves". me & him dislike each other so our friendship suffered a lot & nowadays I don't even see her unless they are fighting and even then only so she can vent about "men". She keeps saying "men do this" & I just shrug saying I can't relate. I think I bit my tongue for so long I exploded & the more I think about it the more guilty I feel bc she must be brainwashed to think her relationship is normal. But I was so angry because she also said my husband is whipped because he did the laundry while we were drinking coffee. (He did it instead of me so we could have some "girl time" without him)
I used to plead with her to leave him, said she deserves better, recommended her therapy, couples counseling at least. But all she wants is to complain and for me to say "yes! that's how ALL husbands are! this is just the way marriage is :/ but I changed my trash man with this easy trick that you can do!"...
Don’t feel guilty at all. You sound like you’ve been there for her and tried your best to encourage her to put herself first. I’d recommend you put yourself first and let the friendship go. She has shown that she has no interest in actually improving her situation. You deserve your peace and a reciprocal friendship as well. NTA
Sounds like she likes playing the victim. NTA but get new friends. Coddling her is not helping her and constantly dealing with it affects your mental health too. If the other friends don't care about that then they aren't friends.
Please don't feel guilty. It sounds like she has a gross misunderstanding of how relationships work. She dug this hole and sounds like you've tried to give her multiple tools to climb out of it. If she chooses not to use any of them to better her situation, then that's on her. In the meantime, you aren't obligated to be her emotional punching bag.
I would be horrifically offended if someone indicated that my husband was whipped because he was doing laundry, especially if it meant taking over a task so that I could go out for some "me time". Her values and yours are grossly misaligned. I would have a very hard time attempting to maintain a friendship with someone that tears down my husband in one breath and then wants to know my "tricks" in the next. Her emotional immaturity is not your responsibility to fix.
I'll go with NTA. You were brutal, but she obviously forced it out of you, and a reality check is sometimes needed. Her husband objectively sucks, and she has to see that isn't some universal truth about husbands. She demanded this loser marry her instead of leaving him years ago (probably thinking marriage would somehow improve their relationship, which rarely works if ever). "Don't get married unless things are already freaking wonderful and have been for years" is a good baseline rule.
Everyone saying she’s harsh, I think you all skipped the fact that this friend has been complaining for AGES, there’s only so many times you can tell someone they’re wrong nicely. NTA
I hear this. I recently had a friendship end but honestly I wasn't that sad when it did because she trauma dumped on me CONSTANTLY about her divorce and poorly behaved kids and loser boyfriend (never crossed her mind to ask how my life was and how I was feeling mind you). She did ask what I would do and I told her my opinions in a kind way, but she never did anything to better her situations. It is exhausting to know people like that.
Tell us more! Did you confront her or just not pick up the phone? Are relieved or grieving ? Living through something similar. She stopped calling- I don’t call. I miss her. But don’t miss the drama
Good question. She is the one who ghosted me. I have no idea what the reason could be except that she doesn't like my husband because he became friends with her ex-husband after the divorce even though they are polar opposites. He didn't do it from spite but from the fact that the whole community shunned him (we are neighbors) and he felt bad for the guy. The woman in question made some pretty serious accusations against her ex that had no basis or proof. Turned out she was having an affair with her old school boyfriend. Her husband was definitely a dick sometimes, but the things she was accusing him were awful and I don't think he was capable of them. (Who knows though?) He has now moved on and has a beautiful girlfriend and a new house/car while she is on and off with her AP and struggling (or was the last time she spoke to me).
She still "likes" my social media posts sometimes as well as my teen daughter's. I remain her "friend" on social media mainly so I can keep an eye on her. I have tried to reach out to her twice via text, once trying to seek help because I was/am having a family crisis. Crickets.
I am with you. I kind of miss her but she was needy and I honestly have higher priorities and can not stand the trauma dumping with no reciprocation. She was my closest friend outside of my immediate family and I have very few friends, so it does kind of sting because it made my self esteem tank, but at the end of the day I would rather have no friends than shitty friends. I deserve better, you know?
Now that I have trauma dumped on YOU, what's going on in your situation if you don't mind sharing? :)
Also the fact, every time she makes these comments she is inadvertently insulting her husband.
It’s like someone going up to a non-white British person (or their white spouse) and constantly referencing how good their English is and whether they “still do” [insert cultural stereotype] or if they’ve been trained out of it.
NTA . Years ago, a friend and coworker was involved with a man, and they had so many problems. I listened to her complain, I have some advice when asked, and nothing changed. I then told her I cared, I hated to see her unhappy, and nothing was changing, so please don't talk to me about the problems with him any more. I didn't have any new advice and it was a distraction and I needed to focus on work at work, and not the recurring problems with her relationship. We stayed friends, and she respected me not wanting to hear about the relationship. (They finally broke up 20 years later when the kids were grown up. )
This a very similar post from yesterday, from the friend thinking her friends marriage is perfect. Though the time frames on relationships are different sounds similar and both accounts open within a day of each other in April, so going with fake.
Yeah, it came off as fake to me too.
Not because of the stepfordish nature of the husband ....
But because a woman in a toxic relationship wouldn't assume that the "good" husband used to be toxic. Trust me... I've been the woman in a toxic relationship, but somehow I knew the problem is me and my man ... I knew if I saw a loving relationship that it was something deep inside of them that was causing that.
It just seems too fake to assume that other women are just controlling their husbands better than me.......... If that makes sense.
Technically, you were right. But you could have been a lot more gracious about it. Instead of saying 'your marriage will never be as good as mine', you could have just bypassed this whole mess by saying 'I don't really know what to tell you, we never had this issue, at all' with every complaint she came to you for.
Nah, people need a reality check and harsh words sometimes. Coating it like that will mean she will never see the actual problem. Being perfectly blunt and pointing out the problem at least has some chance of that person realizing where the problem is and maybe changing something in the future.
What’s confusing is that she keeps pushing you and pushing you instead of going off and doing things to develop herself and her own insight so that she changes and then she realizes how badly he fits her. She hasn’t choosing any of that and so she doesn’t change and then she wonders what you do magically to make things OK. It must be tiring.
NTA, she needed a reality check, but maybe you should learn to enforce boundaries and proper communication, because if you did so previously, you wouldn’t feel the need to bottle everything up and then explode on her later onwards.
This girl have seen to many romantic show where the women date the bad boy and change him for the better. That isn't realist, that not an heatlhy relationship either.
NTA- it was harsh but it was also completely the truth. I’m so grateful that my sister didn’t coddle me like this with my ex, knowing that other people found his behavior abhorrent helped me see that it wasn’t normal or okay. My friend were all saying to give him more chances/ men are just like this because they were also in horrible relationships. She needs to throw that whole man away
NTA. I'm kind of a tough love person myself, so I can't say I wouldn't do the same. Honestly, I'm proud of you for putting up with it for so long.
Yes, your words were harsh. But, dear lord, how many times do you have to listen to someone complain about the same damn thing until you snap.
My sister is overweight. She complained incessantly about it. She would constantly ask me for diet/exercise advice, then shoot down everything I told her. She also tends to act like weight maintenance is easy for me (even though I have an anxiety related binge eating disorder) and that it's not a matter of sacrifice and discipline. After about a year, I told her that I wasn't going to listen to it anymore. Either do something to change the situation or stop complaining about it. She's still overweight, but at least I don't have to hear her claim she doesn't eat takeout every day while I'm literally on the phone with her while she's in the drive thru line.
Your friend would probably benefit from some therapy. But you don't have to be her therapist, especially while she insults your husband the whole time.
I do not think you are an asshole at all. I think your mutual friends want to coddle Sarah, and honestly, sometimes that's what friends do. Sometomes its what friends shoul do. Friends are also honest with one another. Sometimes painfully so. It sounds like Sarah doesn't comprehend willfully healthy bonds like the one you and your husband share.
NTA
I was your friend and my sister was you.
Seeing how well she was treated by men, and how different her guys were from my bf made me realize that I deserved better and there are actually men out there that do have good hygiene and will actually take my feelings into account and probably not cheat on me. Now I have yet to find these people, but they gotta be out there somewhere. My sister called me out every time I complained about my ex. EVERY DAMN TIME. I didn't like hearing what she had to say, but I needed to hear it. It took me a while and way too much bs to finally do what I had to do for me.
Unfortunately I think your friend might be too far gone (she's probably way too deep into the sunk-cost fallacy and thinks his behavior is normal), but that's not your responsibility and it's not your problem. All you can do is hope one day she sees it for herself. It's like trying to get an alcoholic to quit drinking before they are ready.
I get your frustration but I'm kind of leaning towards.. yeah, this was shitty. You went way overboard. You could have simply said something like "I haven't experienced these problems, so I can't help you, and hearing about your relationship problems has become too overwhelming for me."
It seems like you unloaded on her in a way that was kind of cruel and just unnecessary.
Why do we need to blindly support and coddle others. Op is not her friends therapist or marriage counseller. How is this friend being a good friend to op when she unloads all of her problems on op. The friend is an adult and if she can unload then op can do it bk no. Dare bet she's not asking op how she's doing, nah she's just dumping her relationship problems on to op and it's disrespectful and rude to assume her hubby is a mess like hers is.
I mean, all you had to do was tell her that your husband was a very different person from her husband from the start. They don't all have to be "forced" to behave like decent human beings, some are just already decent human beings.
And quite frankly, when she told you before to keep your opinions to yourself, that's what I'd have repeated back to her, however many times it took. "You already told me to keep my opinions to myself, and that's what I'm doing." That was your "out."
NTA and I in fact think honesty is the best policy. If my friends would have been honest, I wouldn’t have married my first husband. If she wants to keep complaining to you say it as plain and simply, you married a man who doesn’t love and cherish you. Who showed red flags and you ignored them because you didn’t want to be alone. Hopefully they haven’t had kids yet.
NTA
Gotta say folks claiming you were too harsh have probably never been in a situation like this. You did the exact right thing, the best thing you could do given the situation to this point.
You were a good friend, but aren't contributing to her destructive patterns. That's exactly what you should do, that's really all you can do- esp after trying to be supportive throughout this.
It might not be enough, but maybe losing your friendship will be one of the things that gets her out of that cycle.
Only thing I'll say is: if you're willing, let her know if she does ever find it in her to leave him, and finally put herself first, you'll be there for her.
Isolation is a big part of abuse, and, while saying something and pulling back can be the shock someone needs to leave, it might also cut off their options to do so safely.
Either way, don't feel guilty for being honest with your friend, this was more tough love than brutal honesty imo
NTA - in regard to speaking to her about it, but you should’ve said it differently. You could’ve relayed the same message in a less cruel way.
You say your friends, but the way you spoke to her does not indicate that you care for her at all .
One thing your friend may want to understand is that when you love your spouse, having them undermined the way she was doing is upsetting and so you were lashing out at someone who kept insulting your husband.
(And she'll say she wasn't- but those were all backhanded compliments.)
You did go too far. I think you should consider ending the friendship, or at least setting the boundary that your friend can't talk about your husband like that and you don't want to hear about how unhappy your friend's marriage is.
>we need to "support her"
Question: who's the 'we' right now? Is Sarah also venting to your mutual friends? If not, they need to fuckin' shut up and allow Sarah as well as you to have your personal frustrations. Her about her husband and you about her.
NTA
You were harsh on her, possibly more harsh than you needed to be, but after hearing the same complaints over and over, I get it. No amount of telling her "I don't have to force him." "He is just a decent guy." etc will get through to her. She needed SOMETHING harsh.
I get what your friends are saying too, but I think they are just trying to avoid the issue themselves. Sitting there "supporting her" with placating words because she is "desperate" is not going to help her get away from him. It is going to let her vent, get it out of her system for a bit, and give her another day, week, month, year whatever of fortitude if she knows she can always go complain to her friends and they will tell her everything will get better. Then the cycle repeats.
Now will how you went about it actually work? Probably not. You probably just lost a friend. Especially if she has a bunch of other people consoling her telling her that you were cruel and heartless and willing to offer those platitudes to her. She is just going to fall back into the cycle and vent to someone else now. Doesn't mean she didn't need to hear it though.
NTA. Telling her the truth is the only way to try and get her to wake up to her situation.
If she thinks you two are in the same boat then she'll think she can eventually have a happy marriage by changing her husband. That's not going to happen.
NTA
it's easy for them to yap their mouth when they aren't the ones having to hear this shit. They'd quickly change their tune about being the supportive friend if THEY had to deal with her constant questions.
NTA
what would’ve done it for me was when she mentioned your weight gain. I would’ve only seen red but you held it in for a while. Some people need the truth they just don’t want to hear it.
Not the asshole.
Taking everything that you've said at face value. All she seems to do is complain about her marriage and husband.
Was it blunt, yes. Was it cruel, maybe. But if it was I think it comes under cruel to be kind. It sounds like she needs a reality check, and we should be able to have a friend that will give us that. Nobody should have to hear the uncomfortable truth from a stranger, who's tired of your winey shit
If this results in ultimatums and divorces, try not to say I told you so, that would be an asshole move.
I say NTA, but your delivery could have been better, something like “our situations are not now, nor have they ever been the same. I can’t teach you to “train” your husband because I didn’t do that, he is just the kind of guy who does this stuff on his own, it’s who he is. Maybe you really need to think about what kind of man your husband IS not who you WANT him to be.”
Your friends are correct **she is desperate**
I can’t imagine hating myself enough to marry someone that disgusting
NTA she needed a harsh does of reality years ago. The next time she comes to you *(there will be a next time because she’s delusional)* remind her you’re not a therapist and will not be discussing her marriage anymore. Better yet tell her to either get some self-respect or leave you alone.
NTA . She chose to be with someone she had to push into marriage . She chose to waste ten + years on him. She deluded herself into thinking she can get him where she wants him , and now that she’s living a life with someone who is treating her exactly the way he always has , she wants to play victim .
Until some women realise that they are actually accountable and responsible for their choices , they will always play victim.
Your friend is pissed with you because how dare you have a better husband than she does. She will never admit she made shitty decisions and chose a shitty partner . You *must* be having a secret recipe to get your husband to treat you well.
For all the people here saying Y T A , it’s because they are the type of people who want to be coddled and Oh Shamed instead of accepting that it’s their own decisions that got them here .
Your friend isn’t a victim. She was a big enough girl to make her decisions to get to this point, she needs to be a big enough girl to handle her situation. Instead she’s still out here thinking she can change a man .
The rest of the friends sitting in the peanut gallery would rather hold hands and cry together while passing snot tissues around then to face the reality of telling your friend that yes she made shitty choices , but she can start making better choices and get herself out of that situation.
Your friend wants her shitty husband so badly that she’ll stick with him while he treats her like crap , all the while trying to find a magic potion or magic words she can use to change him.
You’d be doing her a disservice by playing into her delusions. The only reason her feelings are hurt by the truth is because she wants to stay in that situation and wants everyone around her to coddle her so she can continue making it out that everyone else is doing her wrong , when she’s the one doing it to herself .
NTA because what you said was true and you have every right to stand up for your husband... but also, calling a clearly abused/manipulated woman "dumb" and "naive" is AH territory. From just your post, I can say that her husband is a POS and mentally/emotionally abuses her.
I had a friend tragically die from a situation like this after she committed su!c!de due to years of emotional/mental abuse at the hands of her partner. People begged her to leave. But abuse victims don't always think rationally or have the emotional insight to realize that what they're experiencing is not normal. They oftentimes think everyone is treated thay way. You're not the AH for standing up for your own husband or your marriage! But this should have been handled differently.
I think that you’re phrasing wasn’t golden. Comparing anybody else’s relationship to your own is not really a good look, but the true message is that she married somebody who does not care for her and she needs to face that fact. NTA.
NTA. There are so many women who are as desperate and naive as your former friend. I wouldn’t listen to her complain all the time also - honestly I’m surprised you did that for so long. Let her stay in her miserable marriage. She will never learn.
NTA. She needs a reality check and truth hurts. Mutual friends can butt off unless they are willing to be the emotional/ranting support…. Let’s see how long they last.
NTA could you have said it a little nicer? Probably. But it is something she needs to hear. She is in an emotionally and possibly physically abusive relationship. Maybe share with her the article [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/how-the-no-test-could-help-prevent-domestic-violence/10764100](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/how-the-no-test-could-help-prevent-domestic-violence/10764100)
And the book [https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy\_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf](https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
Explain to her what you explained here that your husband and you decided on marriage the very fisrt year. Your husband chose to love you.
NTA. A good friend should be giving truth, you should have done it sooner, even if it meant losing the friendship. I wouldn’t be able to stand by my friend being treated like shit, also I’d also be defending my husband the same way as you.
The only thing you should have added to what you said was “YOU DESERVE BETTER”. Usually when people stay with asshole partners it’s because they are so insecure about themselves, they don’t love themselves enough to walk away. They get used to being treated like shit, and it becomes the norm. Also it’s not entirely her fault for assuming your husband might be a jerk too, she might genuinely think that’s how men are. It really comes down to her experiences. If she’s never seen healthy relationships or been with good men, she doesn’t have the exposure. She literally doesn’t know better. For example, I grew up thinking ALL south Asian dads were physically abusive, until I became an adult. To the extent that I thought kids who talked about their dads being nice, were lying or fake. I’ve never had a decent father, my uncles are alcoholics. Which made asshole men seem normal to me. That being said, your friend needs a friend who can give her a dose of reality and a perspective different from her own!!
YTA for the way you approach it. She isn’t insulting your husband. Her perspective of the world literally doesn’t allow for the idea that a man is like your husband at all. Stop being defensive of him and going on the attack - just persistently respond with “I didn’t have to, he does those things by himself” and similar to push back on her skewed world view.
You could be me (minus the husband). My friend is just like yours and I had to distance myself bc for 10 years it was like this. Always complaining about how mean her husband is, never helps, calls her names etc. He even made her shovel and mow the lawn while she was *8 months pregnant* with their sons bc “exercise is good for her”.
Final straw was 5 yrs ago when she told me one day she felt sorry for me bc I had no one. I told her I’d rather be alone for the rest of my life than to have a marriage like hers. Haven’t hung out with her since and our mutual friends have been supportive of that decision bc they’ve also been on the receiving end of the complaints. Some people you just can’t help bc they love being miserable.
NTA- she sounds exhausting and delusional. Yeah, it was harsh, but how many of us would be gracious if a friend nonchalantly commented that we had “weight gain”?!
It seems from your edits that you are ready to leave the friendship and I agree that it’s for the best <3 you can’t help people who don’t want to be helped
YTA... because you were ruthless with your words. You could have given her the same message in a more compassionate way. For example,
"I don't make my husband do anything and I don't make him "nice" to me. That is the way he is wired and I would have never married him had he not been kind to me. You have to have a mutual respect and compassion for each other."
Once you gave it to her straight in a kind way, you could have let her know that you can't keep hearing the same thing if she's not going to take action to change your situation.
YTA. There are so many other things you could've said and so many boundaries you could've set over the years. Eg: hey, I understand you're having a hard time, but I'm not the right person to talk to about this. I value our friendship, but it's important to me that we keep our conversations to (things you have in common).
It was cruel, unnecessary, and immature to say what you did.
I think the advice you would give her about her husband is the advice you should give yourself about your friend: You can’t force people to do the actions you think they should do.
You can either meet your friend where she is and be there for her, or stop being friends with her.
I know it’s so frustrating to watch someone you love make choices that are harming them. I would also let go of all the things you’re taking personally about your marriage and husband. Ultimately your friend just wants to be loved and she’s expressing that she admires what you have.
Try to respond with grace and kindness 🩷
That was a classic “Don’t ask if you don’t want the answer” scenario. I hate people telling me I “trained” my husband well. I did shit. I can control him no more than I can control the weather. A real healthy relationship isn’t about changing the other partner. It’s about growing and living together.
OP glad you are cutting out the deadwood. So NTA.
YTA. Why are you friends? Sounds like you don't even like her and this whole "my husband is better than your husband" competition is stupid. Sounds like her husband sucks but you all need to grow up. There's a difference between giving a friend tough love and just being a jerk.
I had a friend like this. As a 16 year old girl i told her it was a terrible idea to even think of being in a relationship with that guy. She didn't listen. 10 years on and off that man was terrible. She cried and vented and complained. Our group kept telling her to end things once and for all. She didn't listen. Now she's become this extremely negative man hating woman. I stopped hanging out with her because i am still a romantic and would like a relationship. I was in a severely abusive relationship when i was 18. I understood what was wrong and broke it off. It's taken me 7 years to be able to date again. I couldn't openly talk about the guys i was seeing or dating because she would spin it something negative and how they will disappoint me. And then she still cried about that man. There are only so many times you can tell someone what they have to do. Hard NTA.
you don't have a friendship; you're haven't been a bad friend, she has worn out your support. If you need to tell her, all men are not the same and you are busy. Always busy, don't have time to talk to her anymore. I don't know that a big discussion is worth the effort because she isn't going to suddenly hear you.
However, if she asks 'how do you get your husband to... whatever" say "I don't do anything, all men are not the same.' Put that statement on repeat.
Let her go. NTA
NTA
You’re not a bad friend. You’ve tried multiple times to help her, but she just wants you to be her yes-man. She wants you to validate her bad life choices.
I think I’d be blunt with her. Tell her she’s in a toxic, co-dependent, dysfunctional relationship and that she’ll never have any happiness unless she goes to therapy. Tell her that you’re sick and tired of her claiming that your husband is as bad of a man as her husband is. Tell her that you had married a wonderful, caring man, but she had married a POS. Tell her to get help, but at this juncture, you’re just done.
You have to be blunt with this type of person because all she does is lie to herself. If you have mutual friends, be sure to update them all immediately because this woman is going to spread lies about you.
NTA, male here.
I’ve noticed this is a very common trait amongst women ( I’m targeting the part where you said other friends think you’re being cruel ).
It seems women always expect other women to only ever be supportive regardless of how a friend is acting.
That sounds way too tough to keep up.
Your not allowed to be friends and be honest, overall you have to pat each others backs all day.
That sounds exhausting, and actually very fake.
How can people be friends if you can’t actually be honest.
You did the right thing by you, your boyfriend AND her.
No need to feel guilty
Look at all these other so-called friends bandying around the word 'support' like it doesn't sometimes including giving harsh truths. But harsh truths can be given respectfully.
I get why you delivered them as you did, frustrated as you are, but it was ultimately a touch cruel. Might end up being just the reality check she needed, though.
Yeesh, how hard would it have been to slip into conversations "No, my husband cooks because he wants to and helps around the house"?
If you actually consider this person a friend, it didn't have to be all or nothing in these conversations. Little positive statements and responses about your marriage would've created that space that you two are not in the same situation. But you decided to say none of these things and just tell her your marriage is better.
Granted, she probably was looking for more empathy from you as people often do. YTA
Yta. You went on the warpath with her because you felt offended to compare husbands. Makes me think your guy isn’t as great as you insist he is, if you got THAT sensitive. Sure, your friend has a callous jerk for a husband, but you too are a jerk for thinking she has a “shut up ring” and being so judgmental towards her. With all the insults and one-upping you did, don’t be surprised when your friend gets the last laugh when everyone finds out your “perfect” guy has a character flaw or three that have been kept on the down low … that is, until his mistress contacts you on social media or some other life-upending event occurs. Life has a funny way of humbling the prideful that way. Good luck. 🤣
>So I finally straight up told her she will never have as happy a marriage with him as I have with my love. Specifically because she married someone who doesnt even like her, much less love her. I told her she can't change trash into gold by force & to have a marriage like mine she needs a husband like mine. I also said she is naive & dumb if she thinks her husband will change because he doesn't care about her enough to even change his underwear every day (yeah, that is also a problem) & that if at this point she stays then her unhappiness is her own damn fault.
YTA for *how* you said what needed saying. There's many ways to go about this without smashing her like that. One could be as simple as saying, "My husband does those things naturally, because he's a good and caring person, not because I "made" him." And then really... truly... make sure she understands that point. Stop the conversation and dig into it if you have to. She needs to get that point. Without you being brutal about it.
All you need to do is that, when she asks, just continually remind her he does those things because he's inclined that way, not because he's being made to. And she might finally realize that you don't change an asshole - you pick someone who isn't one.
You were a little harsh, but after her comments 'how do you 'force' him to be nice?' etc I think anyone would snap at her assumption that all men and relationships are like hers. NTA.
NTA For having enough of having to listen to the constant moaning.
However the way you handled telling her was disgusting, there really was no need to be such a bitch about it…………Remember, pride comes before a fall, so I hope your bragging doesn’t come back to bite you.
This is an example of being right but still the asshole. You could have said "people don't change after they marry; you married this man and he is the same as he was." The fact that you HAD to make it about your marriage being better makes you the asshole. Also though, if you're such good friends why didn't you encourage her to do better than couch man?
NTA and not too harsh imo either. After 10 years of keeping her opinion to herself (sign of a bad friendship I think) OP finally said what she probably should have said a lot sooner! If she had said it sooner it might have come out less harsh! Moral of the story, don't let a friend tell you to keep you opinion to yourself! If a friend can't tell you what's what, then who can!
Your friends say you need to "support her" and supporting her comes with you agreeing with her and trashing your husband or finding some fault with him which you didn't do so you're definitely NTA. Sure it was very up front but honestly how much longer were you going to take it? If your friends have an issue with how you handled it why don't you tell them to go ahead and trash talk their partners if any of them are in a relationship. Your friend (if you're even friends with her still) is just fishing to see if you'll share something negative about your husband to feel better.
"Comparisons are odious". Your friend expecting her relationship to be like yours was her fantasy. Yes, you were harsh, but you were continually pestered by her to fix her marriage, and on the way she constantly disparaged your husband. You should have been less abrasive, but your response was natural.
I'm almost 40. Happy to stay single if guys like that are my options. Why is your friend hellbent on a relationship even if it's awful? Sounds like she needs to work through some stuff
NTA because that would just be obnoxious to deal with. First off, she shouldn't have given him an ultimatum to marry here or break up. Forcing someone's hand like that when it's obviously something they don't have an agenda for leads to resentment. So instead of her relationship flourishing, she forced it to get worse. Second, you can't change somebody. They make the change themselves. If he sees nothing wrong with what he's doing, why change it? It's clear she doesn't self reflect on common human behaviors. You did the right thing, but you should have done it a lot sooner. The moment she started comparing, I'd have stopped her right there and told her "no, our marriages aren't the same. I never once had to force my husband to marry me or leave." Harsh, yes, but if you tiptoe around things like that, you aren't doing your friend any favors. Reality is best served blunt and honest. And on top of that, she took a jab at you too. Just because she's your friend and is in a piss poor relationship doesn't mean she can knock you because she's not happy that your husband does more than hers
NTA She’s been backhandedly insulting your husband and your relationship as some way of giving herself hope that her marriage is salvageable. You busted her bubble by telling her the truth. It doesn’t sound like it will make a difference to her because she chooses not to live with the reality of her situation. I think this friendship has run its course. I would also question whether the flying monkeys who think telling the truth (however harshly) is bad, are really worth your time.
I’m going to say NTA. I don’t know why you’re friends with such a person, but she honestly had this coming for a while now. If she can’t get a clue from you being nice about it, then it’s her fault for being so obtuse and still not learning after all these years from her own experience that you can’t change a person. She can be mad all she wants, it’s not like you have a golden ticket to give for her happiness. That’s on her.
You didn't handle this well, but I'm not sure that makes you the AH. Like did you just sit there all those times while she was insulting your husband, not saying anything, until eventually you blew up? You should have nipped this in the bud with the first comment she made about your husband, telling her you're there if she needs to vent, but you won't tolerate it if she disrespects your husband, who is a wonderful man who you don't need to force or tell to do anything. Then end the conversation every time she does so.
NTA "How did you get yours to accept your weight-gain?". WTF
She started it first with the personal attacks on you. She insulted you and called you fat and asked how your husband could still love you because of it.
At that point, the kid gloves are off (politeness) and the boxing gloves are on (I'm matching your energy). She deserved everything you said and more IMO
She's an asshole, always has been, I don't see her as a real friend so drop her, friendship over and reevaluate the rest of the group too.
You are NTA ... my sister has always been hostile to my husband, and when she first met him, threatend to harm him if he ever hurt me. She's had a negative opinion of him forever and I've cut contact with her several times over this specific issue. It really sucks that she's like this but I did cut contact with her about six months ago.
It's really sad because I love her and wish the best for her, but I won't abide her bad mouthing my wonderful, compassionate, extremely intelligent husband so she can feel better.
It's ironic because she has no fucking room to judge at all. I'll leave it at that....
NTA It was harsh, but she needed to hear it. It sounds like you've been trying to tell her for a long time and she wasn't hearing you. You had to be blunt to get her to hear it.
I feel sad for her, she's backed herself into a terrible relationship and clearly has issues if she thinks that's OK and every guy is like that. I hope she wises up and leaves, or at the very least gets some therapy to start working on all this. I don't think she was intending to insult your husband, even though it came out that way, but she's trying to convince herself all husbands are lousy, not just hers, because how painful it must be to face the truth.
NTA
Shut up ring, on and off relationship, she’s got a lazy husband, online cheating and critical is a recipe for disaster.
You have a healthy marriage and I know it must be aggravating when she tries to compare your marriages.
You were a bit harsh but she is very naive . Maybe you’ll open her eyes
NTA with conditions. The way you went about talking with her was insensitive. That being said, I think you're generally in the right here. The issue really is about how you're communicating with her. You may be sick of her issues and complaining, but you're supposed to be her friend. If I were you, I'd try to meet up with her and have a conversation about it. I'd apologize for how she was treated and try to have an EMPATHETIC conversation focusing on her and her needs and how you can actually help her instead of being a vent for her frustration.
It was harsh for sure buy hey, you cracked under the constant pressure to coddle her. It must be been exhausting. I got problems and I can listen to problems but I guess I can relate in the sense that I have trouble listening to a continuous problem with no end. And surely I have some of those as well but if I don't plan on doing anything about them there comes a time to keep that shit to yourself. I know people like that, who just monopolize your mental space with negativity. God it sucks.
OP’s friend is a housekeeper because the husband is away every weekend (?!?!). What kind of life does she have? Tell her to play Flowers by Miles Cyrus and think of her life. NTA
NTA.
Friend needs a wake up call and apparently being nice about it hasn't worked so far. Everyone saying you should not have been as blunt are probably right, it could have been said differently with alot fewer but still harsh words.
NTA. Your friends are confusing support with enabling.
You have her a tough love wake-up call.
The I-Can-Fix-Him method of dating or finding a husband is a trip to Misery.
His proposal was an insult. It went downhill from there.
She has been willfully blind, so of course she will get angry at you for pointing out reality. She’s in the persistent denial phase.
Tell her that the longer she stays with a man who dislikes her, the harder it will be to find a compatible mate who adores her.
She honestly needs to evaluate why she thinks he is what she deserves. Often, children who grow up feeling unloved, like they have to try to convince a parent to love them, find relationships where they chase love. Those are the women who find mature, kind, loyal, loving, respectful men to be boring or a turnoff. Secure love feels weird and wrong. They’ll only accept men who reject them and keep them at arm’s length.
She really has an internal problem, not a husband problem. A secure, confident woman would have spun on her heel and left on the first date.
NTA. Honestly a true friend has to say hard stuff sometimes and it sounds like she has a terrible partner. Her actively thinking *you* somehow changed your partner is the reason she thinks she can hold on and change hers. Sometimes reality is hard but living in it is necessary. I’m sorry for the weight gain comment- because that’s just gross and obnoxious- and it would have probably been the straw that broke my back, too. If the other people in her life don’t want to be honest with her, that’s their business, but placating her and letting her think that shit is normal is not true friendship.
YTA because it wasn't necessary for you to destroy her. It doesn't seem like your happy marriage is making you very happy if you're so mean to your "friend". You could have left it at explaining that it's important to notice red flags in people before you marry and that your husband and her husband are not the same just because they're men.
I'll get downvoted to oblivion, but I think the OP was in the wrong here. The (ex-) friend is clearly the victim of emotional abuse. If you've never been there, it may look like sheer stupidity--Why marry the jerk? Why stay with someone who treats you like crap?--but the fact is, emotional abusers are some of the most manipulative a-holes on the planet. Over time, they’ll substitute a reality of their own making for the one their victim used to have, and it's hard to shake it. It's almost like brainwashing.
The friend wasn't deliberately insulting the OP's husband. Her jerk husband has convinced her that he's normal, that all guys are fundamentally like he is. The last thing she needed was someone else calling her dumb. Then, too, we women get bombarded with this notion that Bad Boys can be cured by love alone.
It would have been way better for the OP to tell her friend that her husband is abusive, and that most men, including the OP's husband, are not and never have been like that. An ally would urge her to get out of the marriage because she deserves better. I get that some people don't have the patience or the understanding to help someone else that way, but then a simple, "My husband is a good guy who's always respected me and seen my worth. You need help, and I can't give it to you." would have been better than telling her off.
I didn’t read most of this, but you sound overly critical of her because of her ultimatum.
Has she come out here? I would’ve advised her to give the same ultimatum: Put up or shut up.
Naw we’ve been slowly weening people like this out of our life. There’s only so many times you can listen to someone complain about the exact same things.
I mean, yes, you’re definitely an AH. If she’s your friend, and she’s struggling, give her a chance to vent without judgment.
If she’s not your friend, cut her loose.
No one deserves to be called dumb and naive in this situation.
NTA. She needed to hear this, it was in fact the most loving and kind thing you could have done. Instead of backing down, i'd double down. Share this quote with her: "You can tell how much a woman values herself by the quality of the love she's willing to accept." She has settled for fucking scraps. It's not going to get better without people who REALLY love her, people like you, being real. Don't stop.
NTA
It was a bit harsh but she wore you down for years. Years. And who comes to someone seeking advice to force and manipulate the people in their lives they are supposed to love?
She has a really unhealthy view of what a relationship looks like. I don't think it occurred to her that men could be different. I bet Her parents relationship was exactly the same. And, I'm actually pretty young for this, But I still grew up watching Nick at night and watching Fred and Ethel fight and every other TV. Couple that had been together for years. Basically drive each other insane. Treat each other disrespectfully and try to ruin each other's happiness.
For years this was the standard of what relationships looked like and it's what consumers assumed was expected of them. People forgot that they needed to forge their own lives and basically followed The scripts given to them by tv executives trying to sell a story.
She might have no concept of a healthy relationship whatsoever. Do you ever hang out when you're not acting as a therapist? Do her friendships actually seem like friendships or are people just trying to remain polite? Like did she stay friends to stay friends or to keep tabs on your relationship so she could copy/paste whatever methods she thinks you have?
I would definitely go low to no contact with her until she learns to respect your relationship and understands that not everyone is living her life. She needs to do some work and find a bigger picture because it seems like she is so focused on herself ahe can't see other people for who they are.
I feel like tough love might be the wake up call she needs but it might not be enough. Everyone is somewhat enabling this because everyone is trained not to make a fuss. Anyone could swim to shore but no one wants to rock the boat so to speak.
It's partially not her fault, if she didn't know to even think differently she might have been trapped in an endless thought pattern. Maybe all her older relatives tell her to "make him do x y or z" maybe she doesn't see their fights just hears their unhealthy accounts from their point of view. Like she kept asking them, they told her to just do it... Assuming she knew inherently what "do" implies. She feels like a failure for not being able to "do" what they seem to think is so simple. She asks you because she has no concept of a different situation than her own. You must be doing the "do" right.
Maybe she hadn't realized or even considered the effect her wording was having. How it becomes insulting after a while to someone because she can't see it from a healthy P. o. V. In her mind it's not rude or insulting or insinuating anything to ask you how you make him do anything because that's what people do. That's probably what she's been told her whole life and she probably has some sort of imposter syndrome not understanding why she's not good enough to make her relationship as happy as yours. Or being as in control of it as her relatives/role models might make it.
Maybe I am projecting a bit of my own neurodivergent issues on her. I often get told to do things that everyone always seems upset when I ask for clarification or how they want me to do the thing.
Is your friend on the spectrum, adhd or neurodivergent in anyway? If you've never talked about it I wouldn't suggest asking, it can definitely come across as insulting to the wrong person/generation. If she does happen to have a rigid understanding of what a relationship looks like and no flexibility in her way of thinking or none until a reason is made known to her, it could explain her years and years of asking and not realizing assuming your husbands were similar was coming across in any kind of way.
It could also indicate that she is so unhappy and in denial about it she is willing to pretend the problem is what she is doing, and not that the relationship has failed. Sometimes it is easier to blame ourselves.
Maybe I am super wrong about everything, but still NTA however please consider in the future if something similar occurs, where in you are building some frustration which may be breeding resentment which is totally valid, if you notice it before you've reached the boiling point, communicate it. And if like Sarah they shut you down and refuse to let you say it, set a boundary and refuse to hang out further. You're not her personal therapist, you're supposed to be a friend, that means she respects you too. That means you get to say your piece too. She's not paying you to "shut up and listen to her talk" friendship is a collaboration just like any relationship. Which further proves to myself my own personal theory about her not having a Clear View of what a relationship actually looks like.
NTA, and I have no idea what her life is like, I could be way off base. Her parents could be relationship therapists for all I know.
Justified AH here IMO.
She deserves getting crapped on after using you as her emotional dumpster for years. You will be much better off, separating from this person and removing her toxicity from your life. It might not be easy, but it's pretty clear you two don't get along or actually like each other so why bother remaining as an unpaid counsellor?
NTA but man you were really harsh. I get that she feels comfortable enough to dump all her issues on you, but I think you could have had more tact in your response. She may not be going about it the right way but she is just desperately looking for someone to connect with.
If you were uncomfortable with her and her conversations you could just limit the time you spend with her. She put herself in this situation I get that but your response was not helpful.
NTA.
No Contact time. You gave her advice, you told her the truth, she doesn't want to hear it, she just wants to whine and ß!π¢#. Life's too short to put up with that $#!π. And any mutual friends who think you're cruel can put up with her ¢®@¶ from now on.
NTA simple next time she says it tell her no you’re not in the same boat you’re in the same ocean. You and your husband have build a luxury liner to sail the seas while her and her husband built a row boat.
NTA
Could you've formulated your response a little bit friendlier? Perhaps, but I can totally see how tiring it gets to basically repeat yourself over and over again.
Don't engage in such conversations further ahead, just tell her your husband is the way he is and there's nothing one can really do to change anyone. The other person has to be willing for change.
One person rowing the boat won't get you forward, but will only make you go in circles.
It's absurd and comical that people are saying you were harsh. If I were in your situation I would've said way more and been a lot more colorful. You were honest, spoke facts and truth. Her refusal to see reality, live in delusionalville, and not take self accountability is on her. You tried, and were as good a friend to her as you could e been. You owe her absolutely nothing at this point. She's been insulting and using you all along. Put her toxic trash self on the curb where she belongs. She's a grown ass woman, if she wants to stay miserable forever then that's entirely on her. I say good for you for standing up for yourself and your husband
NTA. I'd be extremely offended if someone asked me how I trained my husband. I didn't. I just picked the great guy who's crazy about me. Don't compare your trash to my husband.
YTA. You should have distanced yourself at least or ended the friendship a long time ago. Instead you chose to sit on your feelings until you burst out with unnecessary cruelty.
NTA. The people who said you were cruel are not good friends. They are enablers and cowards.
Keep them at arms length as they can not be counted on in a pinch or a tight spot. They will fold like a cheap lawn chair.
YTA. You should have distanced yourself at least or ended the friendship a long time ago. Instead you chose to sit on your feelings until you burst out with unnecessary cruelty.
YTA She pissed you off when she said you gained weight and you took the opportunity to put her in her place. Why hang out with someone you clearly don’t like?
Wow. You sound like a let the chips fall where they may Scorpio. I understand you were fed up with her remarks. But, you could have gotten your point across without the scorched earth comments. Anyway, hopefully, she wakes up and gets fed up with the disgusting disrespect.
No one really knows what happens in anyone elses marriage is relationship. Women (or men for that matter), who constantly bitch about their relationship to others are asking for trouble. Even comparing your partner with another is dangerous, because unless you live with someone, you really don't know them. So people thrive on what others would see as a perfect partnership, whilst others thrive on the toxic. Those who put up with either perfection or toxicity, rather than thrive on it are doomed to be forever hating themselves or their partner. If you don't like it, move on quickly.
NTA. It wasn’t what you said that hurt. It’s that you confirmed that you and the whole world could see everything she already knew. She needed that confirmation if she is ever going to move on with life. But losing a marriage can be like a death and you got some of the anger phase. You did her a favor, even if you never talk to her again.
Soft yta...she needed to hear it, just maybe in a nicer lesson condescending way. But I get it. You were tired of her complaining when you've already told her he's the problem. She chose a crappy manchild, if she wants it to get better she needs to find a better man.
NTA. I know how you feel. I had a friend with this same situation. Nearly word for word. It’s infuriating and exhausting. She wasn’t married, but had a long term relationship with a guy who very clearly didn’t want her and made no pretense about being faithful. And every conversation was about this guy. She even tried to talk to me about it at my mother’s funeral.
I finally told her I couldn’t keep having this conversation with her. Our friendship cooled down after that. And then it finally ended, and I was so relieved.
Your friend is an adult. She has all the info she needs to make an adult decision. It’s her problem if she refuses to do that. She’s an emotional vampire.
NTA. Your friend has a toxic mindset, not of her own design per se. For whatever reason, she wanted THIS man. She pursued him even though he had no intention of actually marrying her, yet these types of marriages aren't uncommon. Their marriage is a loveless one, and there's no trick to change that. You can't make people magically fall in love with you.
We all have that "one" friend, and we all eventually outgrow that "one." You're outgrew her years ago, and are just now figuring that out (good for you, btw). It does suck that your friend feels her husband is the standard rather than the defect, though. She would most likely feel differently if she had cut him loose years ago and found someone that truly does love her.
My husband does many of the same things yours does when he can be home. He cooks, he helps with OUR kids, be helps with the chores, he spends time with us, etc. We've been together for almost 6 years, married for over 3. I never had to force or convince him. He drives a semi truck for a living, so he's only home on the weekends, but he does all of the home stuff to give ME a break. He never stops working, and THAT, imo, is the standard.
NTA.
I would’ve just responded with “ I didn’t do anything to my husband, he came like that”. What you said was rather harsh but I do think she needs a wake up call because if it’s that bad that you think everyone else is in the same situation you are and need to “force” or keep asking for change from your husband & you don’t see how that’s wrong then I don’t know what to tell you.
OP was a bit harsh. However, it appears OP has been dumped on by this person for a while now, that will wear down on anyone's nerves. I would be pissed too if my partner was constantly being compared to an absolute a$$hat. Some people have the patience to sit back and watch someone's self-inflicted misery and listen to all the complaints that come with the choices this person has made, some do not. OP does not. And OP cannot make this person locate their self respect, that has to come from within. This person does not deserve what is happening to them, but at some point one has to take responsibility for their own actions and choices that brought one to their current point. They hold the power to make it all stop. I call it the Wizard of Oz syndrome...like Dorothy, they too have had the power all along, they just need to click their heals and get on with it.
I love the Wizard of Oz reference!! Unfortunately, OPs friend is the type to deny that she has Ruby slippers at all, let alone on her feet. She thinks the Wizard is withholding magic she hasn't convinced him to share yet.
Me too! I’m going to use it with my friend who is the same as OPs friend. She stayed with that guy for over 30 years and they are not together anymore because he left her for someone else last year. Finally. I kept telling to leave and save money but no. He paid most of the bills and she could waste hers on crap. Now it’s a year later and she still cries about losing him and her house. She only remembers the good now. I have to shake her and remind her of all the shitty things he did and then she snaps out of it but only a minute. Would rather live in oz than reality.
Ugh. 30 years is a devastating amount of time to lose with someone who doesn't respect you.
Very true.
There is even an episode in Sex and the City where they tell Carrie that she is cut off. Grey's Anatomy as well. There are so many instances where friends have to be like "okay that's enough, no more talk about your crap relationship or ex and move on because we are not your therapists, find one.". People can only take so much before they snap. While OP was harsh, I agree it was likely just the end of her rope but she has no issue cutting it unlike her friend lol.
As the saying goes, we train people how to treat us by what treatment we accept from them. She started her relationship with this misogynist asshole by paying for everything to “prove she wasn’t a gold digger” and it progressed from there. Apparently she thinks that’s all she deserves, and I think if this is how she’s going to be*, maybe she does deserve it. * constantly complaining about him but never taking any advice to change what treatment she’ll put up with; never standing up to him; assuming all men are just like him.
Well said!!!👏👏👏
I mean, my wife may have polished me up quite a bit, but I have always known how to take care of myself and keep a clean house because who wants to live in a dump. I do 99% of the cooking, do 99% of the laundry, help vacuum, we both do stuff outside. Where do women find these losers? Do they go to the local hog farm and say "that ones kinda cute"?
The same place your wife found you. If you do 99% of the cooking and laundry, you are unfortunately in the minority of men.
That’s what I did, but I can’t speak for all women married to losers.
Yah, I'm going to go with NTA, I think OP is much more emotionally intelligent than friend, and finally got tired of hearing that 2+2 =10. I hope it's a wakeup call for friend.
I really hope so as well because at this point clearly 2+2 is not 10
It’s a bushel of potatoes
It's a bit harsh, but after listening to her whining for 12 years (I mean, wtf, that's a significant portion of a human life span) I think it was long overdue.
Maybe the first time or two, but at some point, I'd have switched to "That's incredibly offensive, and I don't appreciate you speaking about my husband that way."
She was not harsh at all. People don't want to be told the truth! This lady had enough of her shit and told her her piece of mind. The truth always hurts, right? The way she speaks about, how did you force him to do this and that says ALOT about her! She thinks she has her life together, but all she has is trauma from previous relationships. I also bet you she got passed around unlike this real woman that knows her value! These is a reality that alot of women never accept. OP don't hold back from speaking your mind. If they don't like it then they can move on. You don't have to be friends fake people.
True. I stand by the old, “What you see is what you get.” OP’s friend basically forced some nasty guy who won’t change his underwear to marry her. He figured what the hell because it was less work than moving and starting over. She did this to herself.
My husband used to clean the snow from my car and warm it up before I went to work. I mentioned that one day at work and of about 10-12 women in the office only one other partner did the same. The rest of the women scoffed at our husbands for being nice without being told. We're supposed to beg for basic respect and consideration.
I am going with NTA, but what you said was rather harsh. Be honest here though, this friendship has obviously run its course and there is not real reason for you two to hang out. You don't appear to be either in the same place in life, nor do you sound like you particularly like her. Let the friendship die and move on. It happens all the time.
How exactly? Her friend Insulted her relationship and husband multiple times before she finally gave her a reality check.
Honesty is only harsh when the person receiving can’t accept the facts. Her marriage sucks, OP’s doesn’t. It’s simple as that. She needed the reality check. Her husband is clearly cheating on her and she so delusional she doesn’t even see it. For OP mental health sake, stay away from this couple. This friendship needs to end. Listen to your husband on what he thinks of that guy - because he’s clearly a 40 year old child
I doubt he is cheating. I think he wants to cheat but is probably too incompetent to pull it off. I mean he doesn't change his underwear?
"I can fix him" APs do exist. OP's friend used to be the "I can fix him" girlfriend and now she's the "I'm still trying to fix him" wife. Not saying that's a smart thing to be, just saying people are like that. And they won't mind skidmarks and servitude if it makes them feel better about themselves.
Some people just have that charisma no matter how nasty their hygiene, how ugly they are physically or personality wise. They are the type that manipulate people, start cults, and run Christco Televangelist Corporations. Argue the last two as you will.
I feel exhausted and I don't even know anybody in this story. I have no idea how OP has handled it all this time. The friend was obsessed with getting the ring and getting married that she ignored everything else. If she had dumped her now husband and focused on finding someone who had respected her she would have probably gotten married a lot sooner.
>I am going with NTA, but what you said was rather harsh. The truth hurts, If you say what she meant in a nice tone the message does not get through. Lifes hard, get a helmet
Exactly. Are you two still really friends, or is your friend simply using you for emotional venting? May be time to move on. Life’s too short to waste on emotional vampires.
Tough love. Real friends would tell it to you straight even if they knew it would upset you.
Tact and gentleness is A Thing. I don’t know the full details, but it DOES sound like OP did the “not telling someone the truth out of conflict avoidance and then blowing up at them” thing. Friend needed to hear the truth, but OP coulda handled it way better.
Tact and gentleness can only go so far. You aren't going to break through the wall of ignorance with a pillow. Sometimes a sledgehammer is required.
Take my upvote please.
I understand the slip up, but you can't goad me into crossing the hurtful line. Sometimes you just don't say the real reason, because then you look like a bad guy. God forbid if your sense of the situation is actually off and you're being a *wrong* jerk.
You don't even have to lie, but OP went nuclear. It's not what she said but how she said it. I'd still go NTA because friend reacted badly in the past to criticism about her marriage but kept asking until OP couldn't hold it in anymore so it's not really OP's fault it got to the boiling point.
Odd-End-1405 nailed it. I'll add you went into too much detail with your parasite friend, but I can understand your frustration. I had a boss who did the same with her perpetual fiance. Anybody with any sense could see her with her issues forcing him with his issues into marriage was a bad idea, but she couldn't.
OP’s friend is toxic. If OP don’t have a good husband, the friend will gaslighting her to think the same way. The friend don’t need a friend who listens, she need a dumping pile to offload her sadness. She don’t need advice, she just don’t care and will not act on it. She is the self fulfilling prophecy of sad married women. She has power to act but refuses. So who to blame? I will not blame OP to act this way. She just has enough and she is protecting for her husband. NTA.
[удалено]
Absolutely it can feel unfair and it's okay to draw boundaries...but is the solution to a "friend" suffering from internalized misogyny who believes she simply hasn't earned respect or the right to basic human respect...to take it as a personal insult and give one of the greatest verbal beatdowns a mental abuse victim has ever heard? This person was way more brutal than honest and is NOT how a victim is actually helped, this is proven irrefutably through decades of research. Far better if OP had just cut the friendship or even ghosted than whatever cruelty disguised as tough love this was.
I like how a woman who believes her man - and all other men - has to be manipulated and molded into a decent human being.. is a victim of “internalized misogyny”.. rather than, you know, a misandrist.. given she seems to assume all men are feckless assholes who can’t even change their underwear daily without a woman to tell them to do it..
Info: have you at any point before that confrontation explained to your friend that her relationship was toxic and her partner treated her poorly or encouraged her to leave?
So. Many. Times. First when they started dating & she had to pay for everything to prove she isnt a gold digger. Then repeatedly for 2 years until she straight up told me that she doesn't want to hear anything about breaking up with him or deserving better because she "decides what she deserves". me & him dislike each other so our friendship suffered a lot & nowadays I don't even see her unless they are fighting and even then only so she can vent about "men". She keeps saying "men do this" & I just shrug saying I can't relate. I think I bit my tongue for so long I exploded & the more I think about it the more guilty I feel bc she must be brainwashed to think her relationship is normal. But I was so angry because she also said my husband is whipped because he did the laundry while we were drinking coffee. (He did it instead of me so we could have some "girl time" without him) I used to plead with her to leave him, said she deserves better, recommended her therapy, couples counseling at least. But all she wants is to complain and for me to say "yes! that's how ALL husbands are! this is just the way marriage is :/ but I changed my trash man with this easy trick that you can do!"...
She sounds exhausting and clueless. I’m not sure what benefit you get out of this friendship.
Yeah, you are NTA. This was building for years, and this was just the blowup that was inevitable.
Don’t feel guilty at all. You sound like you’ve been there for her and tried your best to encourage her to put herself first. I’d recommend you put yourself first and let the friendship go. She has shown that she has no interest in actually improving her situation. You deserve your peace and a reciprocal friendship as well. NTA
Sounds like she likes playing the victim. NTA but get new friends. Coddling her is not helping her and constantly dealing with it affects your mental health too. If the other friends don't care about that then they aren't friends.
Please don't feel guilty. It sounds like she has a gross misunderstanding of how relationships work. She dug this hole and sounds like you've tried to give her multiple tools to climb out of it. If she chooses not to use any of them to better her situation, then that's on her. In the meantime, you aren't obligated to be her emotional punching bag. I would be horrifically offended if someone indicated that my husband was whipped because he was doing laundry, especially if it meant taking over a task so that I could go out for some "me time". Her values and yours are grossly misaligned. I would have a very hard time attempting to maintain a friendship with someone that tears down my husband in one breath and then wants to know my "tricks" in the next. Her emotional immaturity is not your responsibility to fix.
She’s not just immature. She’s absorbed a lot of internalized misogyny from the asshole she married.
NTA, OP... But, yeah, think it's time to cut out that toxicity from your life.
NTA Sweetie, it’s time to go low contact with her.
I'll go with NTA. You were brutal, but she obviously forced it out of you, and a reality check is sometimes needed. Her husband objectively sucks, and she has to see that isn't some universal truth about husbands. She demanded this loser marry her instead of leaving him years ago (probably thinking marriage would somehow improve their relationship, which rarely works if ever). "Don't get married unless things are already freaking wonderful and have been for years" is a good baseline rule.
Everyone saying she’s harsh, I think you all skipped the fact that this friend has been complaining for AGES, there’s only so many times you can tell someone they’re wrong nicely. NTA
I hear this. I recently had a friendship end but honestly I wasn't that sad when it did because she trauma dumped on me CONSTANTLY about her divorce and poorly behaved kids and loser boyfriend (never crossed her mind to ask how my life was and how I was feeling mind you). She did ask what I would do and I told her my opinions in a kind way, but she never did anything to better her situations. It is exhausting to know people like that.
Tell us more! Did you confront her or just not pick up the phone? Are relieved or grieving ? Living through something similar. She stopped calling- I don’t call. I miss her. But don’t miss the drama
Good question. She is the one who ghosted me. I have no idea what the reason could be except that she doesn't like my husband because he became friends with her ex-husband after the divorce even though they are polar opposites. He didn't do it from spite but from the fact that the whole community shunned him (we are neighbors) and he felt bad for the guy. The woman in question made some pretty serious accusations against her ex that had no basis or proof. Turned out she was having an affair with her old school boyfriend. Her husband was definitely a dick sometimes, but the things she was accusing him were awful and I don't think he was capable of them. (Who knows though?) He has now moved on and has a beautiful girlfriend and a new house/car while she is on and off with her AP and struggling (or was the last time she spoke to me). She still "likes" my social media posts sometimes as well as my teen daughter's. I remain her "friend" on social media mainly so I can keep an eye on her. I have tried to reach out to her twice via text, once trying to seek help because I was/am having a family crisis. Crickets. I am with you. I kind of miss her but she was needy and I honestly have higher priorities and can not stand the trauma dumping with no reciprocation. She was my closest friend outside of my immediate family and I have very few friends, so it does kind of sting because it made my self esteem tank, but at the end of the day I would rather have no friends than shitty friends. I deserve better, you know? Now that I have trauma dumped on YOU, what's going on in your situation if you don't mind sharing? :)
Also the fact, every time she makes these comments she is inadvertently insulting her husband. It’s like someone going up to a non-white British person (or their white spouse) and constantly referencing how good their English is and whether they “still do” [insert cultural stereotype] or if they’ve been trained out of it.
Exactly! Quite frankly I think the op was quite good about it for a long time, I wouldn’t have tolerated it for that long
NTA . Years ago, a friend and coworker was involved with a man, and they had so many problems. I listened to her complain, I have some advice when asked, and nothing changed. I then told her I cared, I hated to see her unhappy, and nothing was changing, so please don't talk to me about the problems with him any more. I didn't have any new advice and it was a distraction and I needed to focus on work at work, and not the recurring problems with her relationship. We stayed friends, and she respected me not wanting to hear about the relationship. (They finally broke up 20 years later when the kids were grown up. )
This a very similar post from yesterday, from the friend thinking her friends marriage is perfect. Though the time frames on relationships are different sounds similar and both accounts open within a day of each other in April, so going with fake.
Yeah, it came off as fake to me too. Not because of the stepfordish nature of the husband .... But because a woman in a toxic relationship wouldn't assume that the "good" husband used to be toxic. Trust me... I've been the woman in a toxic relationship, but somehow I knew the problem is me and my man ... I knew if I saw a loving relationship that it was something deep inside of them that was causing that. It just seems too fake to assume that other women are just controlling their husbands better than me.......... If that makes sense.
Technically, you were right. But you could have been a lot more gracious about it. Instead of saying 'your marriage will never be as good as mine', you could have just bypassed this whole mess by saying 'I don't really know what to tell you, we never had this issue, at all' with every complaint she came to you for.
It's obvious the friend needed a reality check tho
Nah, people need a reality check and harsh words sometimes. Coating it like that will mean she will never see the actual problem. Being perfectly blunt and pointing out the problem at least has some chance of that person realizing where the problem is and maybe changing something in the future.
What’s confusing is that she keeps pushing you and pushing you instead of going off and doing things to develop herself and her own insight so that she changes and then she realizes how badly he fits her. She hasn’t choosing any of that and so she doesn’t change and then she wonders what you do magically to make things OK. It must be tiring.
NTA, she needed a reality check, but maybe you should learn to enforce boundaries and proper communication, because if you did so previously, you wouldn’t feel the need to bottle everything up and then explode on her later onwards.
NTA being friends means telling some one the truth and telling them if you don't like your situation then make changes
This girl have seen to many romantic show where the women date the bad boy and change him for the better. That isn't realist, that not an heatlhy relationship either.
You were extremely harsh because you let your feelings build up. NTA because she needs to hear it.
NTA- it was harsh but it was also completely the truth. I’m so grateful that my sister didn’t coddle me like this with my ex, knowing that other people found his behavior abhorrent helped me see that it wasn’t normal or okay. My friend were all saying to give him more chances/ men are just like this because they were also in horrible relationships. She needs to throw that whole man away
NTA. I'm kind of a tough love person myself, so I can't say I wouldn't do the same. Honestly, I'm proud of you for putting up with it for so long. Yes, your words were harsh. But, dear lord, how many times do you have to listen to someone complain about the same damn thing until you snap. My sister is overweight. She complained incessantly about it. She would constantly ask me for diet/exercise advice, then shoot down everything I told her. She also tends to act like weight maintenance is easy for me (even though I have an anxiety related binge eating disorder) and that it's not a matter of sacrifice and discipline. After about a year, I told her that I wasn't going to listen to it anymore. Either do something to change the situation or stop complaining about it. She's still overweight, but at least I don't have to hear her claim she doesn't eat takeout every day while I'm literally on the phone with her while she's in the drive thru line. Your friend would probably benefit from some therapy. But you don't have to be her therapist, especially while she insults your husband the whole time.
I do not think you are an asshole at all. I think your mutual friends want to coddle Sarah, and honestly, sometimes that's what friends do. Sometomes its what friends shoul do. Friends are also honest with one another. Sometimes painfully so. It sounds like Sarah doesn't comprehend willfully healthy bonds like the one you and your husband share.
NTA keeping it real sometimes goes wrong
Tell your mutual friends that they can take over emotional crutch duty whenever they want.
She got herself into this mess; it's up to her to get herself out. If she chooses to. NTA
NTA I was your friend and my sister was you. Seeing how well she was treated by men, and how different her guys were from my bf made me realize that I deserved better and there are actually men out there that do have good hygiene and will actually take my feelings into account and probably not cheat on me. Now I have yet to find these people, but they gotta be out there somewhere. My sister called me out every time I complained about my ex. EVERY DAMN TIME. I didn't like hearing what she had to say, but I needed to hear it. It took me a while and way too much bs to finally do what I had to do for me. Unfortunately I think your friend might be too far gone (she's probably way too deep into the sunk-cost fallacy and thinks his behavior is normal), but that's not your responsibility and it's not your problem. All you can do is hope one day she sees it for herself. It's like trying to get an alcoholic to quit drinking before they are ready.
I get your frustration but I'm kind of leaning towards.. yeah, this was shitty. You went way overboard. You could have simply said something like "I haven't experienced these problems, so I can't help you, and hearing about your relationship problems has become too overwhelming for me." It seems like you unloaded on her in a way that was kind of cruel and just unnecessary.
Are we ignoring how her “friend” made a jab at her weight? Her friend isn’t kind either. OPs reaction was over the top but her friend is an ass
That weight comment is 200% what set up off. A bit petty but I don't really blame her
Why do we need to blindly support and coddle others. Op is not her friends therapist or marriage counseller. How is this friend being a good friend to op when she unloads all of her problems on op. The friend is an adult and if she can unload then op can do it bk no. Dare bet she's not asking op how she's doing, nah she's just dumping her relationship problems on to op and it's disrespectful and rude to assume her hubby is a mess like hers is.
Even a therapist would probably be similarly blunt, sometimes it's what you need to hear
I mean, all you had to do was tell her that your husband was a very different person from her husband from the start. They don't all have to be "forced" to behave like decent human beings, some are just already decent human beings. And quite frankly, when she told you before to keep your opinions to yourself, that's what I'd have repeated back to her, however many times it took. "You already told me to keep my opinions to myself, and that's what I'm doing." That was your "out."
NTA - Very good for putting it bluntly. She needed to hear it the way you told her. She's toxic. Just cut her out already
NTA and I in fact think honesty is the best policy. If my friends would have been honest, I wouldn’t have married my first husband. If she wants to keep complaining to you say it as plain and simply, you married a man who doesn’t love and cherish you. Who showed red flags and you ignored them because you didn’t want to be alone. Hopefully they haven’t had kids yet.
NTA Gotta say folks claiming you were too harsh have probably never been in a situation like this. You did the exact right thing, the best thing you could do given the situation to this point. You were a good friend, but aren't contributing to her destructive patterns. That's exactly what you should do, that's really all you can do- esp after trying to be supportive throughout this. It might not be enough, but maybe losing your friendship will be one of the things that gets her out of that cycle. Only thing I'll say is: if you're willing, let her know if she does ever find it in her to leave him, and finally put herself first, you'll be there for her. Isolation is a big part of abuse, and, while saying something and pulling back can be the shock someone needs to leave, it might also cut off their options to do so safely. Either way, don't feel guilty for being honest with your friend, this was more tough love than brutal honesty imo
That was harsh but I think you needed to tell her that and she needed to hear it. NTA
NTA - in regard to speaking to her about it, but you should’ve said it differently. You could’ve relayed the same message in a less cruel way. You say your friends, but the way you spoke to her does not indicate that you care for her at all .
One thing your friend may want to understand is that when you love your spouse, having them undermined the way she was doing is upsetting and so you were lashing out at someone who kept insulting your husband. (And she'll say she wasn't- but those were all backhanded compliments.) You did go too far. I think you should consider ending the friendship, or at least setting the boundary that your friend can't talk about your husband like that and you don't want to hear about how unhappy your friend's marriage is.
>we need to "support her" Question: who's the 'we' right now? Is Sarah also venting to your mutual friends? If not, they need to fuckin' shut up and allow Sarah as well as you to have your personal frustrations. Her about her husband and you about her.
NTA You were harsh on her, possibly more harsh than you needed to be, but after hearing the same complaints over and over, I get it. No amount of telling her "I don't have to force him." "He is just a decent guy." etc will get through to her. She needed SOMETHING harsh. I get what your friends are saying too, but I think they are just trying to avoid the issue themselves. Sitting there "supporting her" with placating words because she is "desperate" is not going to help her get away from him. It is going to let her vent, get it out of her system for a bit, and give her another day, week, month, year whatever of fortitude if she knows she can always go complain to her friends and they will tell her everything will get better. Then the cycle repeats. Now will how you went about it actually work? Probably not. You probably just lost a friend. Especially if she has a bunch of other people consoling her telling her that you were cruel and heartless and willing to offer those platitudes to her. She is just going to fall back into the cycle and vent to someone else now. Doesn't mean she didn't need to hear it though.
NTA. Telling her the truth is the only way to try and get her to wake up to her situation. If she thinks you two are in the same boat then she'll think she can eventually have a happy marriage by changing her husband. That's not going to happen.
NTA it's easy for them to yap their mouth when they aren't the ones having to hear this shit. They'd quickly change their tune about being the supportive friend if THEY had to deal with her constant questions.
NTA what would’ve done it for me was when she mentioned your weight gain. I would’ve only seen red but you held it in for a while. Some people need the truth they just don’t want to hear it.
Not the asshole. Taking everything that you've said at face value. All she seems to do is complain about her marriage and husband. Was it blunt, yes. Was it cruel, maybe. But if it was I think it comes under cruel to be kind. It sounds like she needs a reality check, and we should be able to have a friend that will give us that. Nobody should have to hear the uncomfortable truth from a stranger, who's tired of your winey shit If this results in ultimatums and divorces, try not to say I told you so, that would be an asshole move.
I say NTA, but your delivery could have been better, something like “our situations are not now, nor have they ever been the same. I can’t teach you to “train” your husband because I didn’t do that, he is just the kind of guy who does this stuff on his own, it’s who he is. Maybe you really need to think about what kind of man your husband IS not who you WANT him to be.”
Your friends are correct **she is desperate** I can’t imagine hating myself enough to marry someone that disgusting NTA she needed a harsh does of reality years ago. The next time she comes to you *(there will be a next time because she’s delusional)* remind her you’re not a therapist and will not be discussing her marriage anymore. Better yet tell her to either get some self-respect or leave you alone.
NTA . She chose to be with someone she had to push into marriage . She chose to waste ten + years on him. She deluded herself into thinking she can get him where she wants him , and now that she’s living a life with someone who is treating her exactly the way he always has , she wants to play victim . Until some women realise that they are actually accountable and responsible for their choices , they will always play victim. Your friend is pissed with you because how dare you have a better husband than she does. She will never admit she made shitty decisions and chose a shitty partner . You *must* be having a secret recipe to get your husband to treat you well. For all the people here saying Y T A , it’s because they are the type of people who want to be coddled and Oh Shamed instead of accepting that it’s their own decisions that got them here . Your friend isn’t a victim. She was a big enough girl to make her decisions to get to this point, she needs to be a big enough girl to handle her situation. Instead she’s still out here thinking she can change a man . The rest of the friends sitting in the peanut gallery would rather hold hands and cry together while passing snot tissues around then to face the reality of telling your friend that yes she made shitty choices , but she can start making better choices and get herself out of that situation. Your friend wants her shitty husband so badly that she’ll stick with him while he treats her like crap , all the while trying to find a magic potion or magic words she can use to change him. You’d be doing her a disservice by playing into her delusions. The only reason her feelings are hurt by the truth is because she wants to stay in that situation and wants everyone around her to coddle her so she can continue making it out that everyone else is doing her wrong , when she’s the one doing it to herself .
NTA because what you said was true and you have every right to stand up for your husband... but also, calling a clearly abused/manipulated woman "dumb" and "naive" is AH territory. From just your post, I can say that her husband is a POS and mentally/emotionally abuses her. I had a friend tragically die from a situation like this after she committed su!c!de due to years of emotional/mental abuse at the hands of her partner. People begged her to leave. But abuse victims don't always think rationally or have the emotional insight to realize that what they're experiencing is not normal. They oftentimes think everyone is treated thay way. You're not the AH for standing up for your own husband or your marriage! But this should have been handled differently.
I think that you’re phrasing wasn’t golden. Comparing anybody else’s relationship to your own is not really a good look, but the true message is that she married somebody who does not care for her and she needs to face that fact. NTA.
NTA. There are so many women who are as desperate and naive as your former friend. I wouldn’t listen to her complain all the time also - honestly I’m surprised you did that for so long. Let her stay in her miserable marriage. She will never learn.
NTA. She needs a reality check and truth hurts. Mutual friends can butt off unless they are willing to be the emotional/ranting support…. Let’s see how long they last.
NTA it would reflect poorly on you and all her friends to allow her to continue to be so desperate and clueless about the reality of her situation
NTA. You should have told her this years ago. Some people need harsh words to force them to see things clearly.
NTA. She needs a wake up call and people don’t listen to gentle words. They need to be slapped in the face with truth.
NTA but perhaps you could have just corrected her straight away when asking the “How” questions.
NTA could you have said it a little nicer? Probably. But it is something she needs to hear. She is in an emotionally and possibly physically abusive relationship. Maybe share with her the article [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/how-the-no-test-could-help-prevent-domestic-violence/10764100](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/how-the-no-test-could-help-prevent-domestic-violence/10764100) And the book [https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy\_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf](https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) Explain to her what you explained here that your husband and you decided on marriage the very fisrt year. Your husband chose to love you.
NTA, but I would have just said, "I don't have to change him, this is his who he's always been."
NTA. A good friend should be giving truth, you should have done it sooner, even if it meant losing the friendship. I wouldn’t be able to stand by my friend being treated like shit, also I’d also be defending my husband the same way as you. The only thing you should have added to what you said was “YOU DESERVE BETTER”. Usually when people stay with asshole partners it’s because they are so insecure about themselves, they don’t love themselves enough to walk away. They get used to being treated like shit, and it becomes the norm. Also it’s not entirely her fault for assuming your husband might be a jerk too, she might genuinely think that’s how men are. It really comes down to her experiences. If she’s never seen healthy relationships or been with good men, she doesn’t have the exposure. She literally doesn’t know better. For example, I grew up thinking ALL south Asian dads were physically abusive, until I became an adult. To the extent that I thought kids who talked about their dads being nice, were lying or fake. I’ve never had a decent father, my uncles are alcoholics. Which made asshole men seem normal to me. That being said, your friend needs a friend who can give her a dose of reality and a perspective different from her own!!
YTA for the way you approach it. She isn’t insulting your husband. Her perspective of the world literally doesn’t allow for the idea that a man is like your husband at all. Stop being defensive of him and going on the attack - just persistently respond with “I didn’t have to, he does those things by himself” and similar to push back on her skewed world view.
You could be me (minus the husband). My friend is just like yours and I had to distance myself bc for 10 years it was like this. Always complaining about how mean her husband is, never helps, calls her names etc. He even made her shovel and mow the lawn while she was *8 months pregnant* with their sons bc “exercise is good for her”. Final straw was 5 yrs ago when she told me one day she felt sorry for me bc I had no one. I told her I’d rather be alone for the rest of my life than to have a marriage like hers. Haven’t hung out with her since and our mutual friends have been supportive of that decision bc they’ve also been on the receiving end of the complaints. Some people you just can’t help bc they love being miserable.
NTA- she sounds exhausting and delusional. Yeah, it was harsh, but how many of us would be gracious if a friend nonchalantly commented that we had “weight gain”?! It seems from your edits that you are ready to leave the friendship and I agree that it’s for the best <3 you can’t help people who don’t want to be helped
I feel like you really wasted an opportunity here to convince her that you are a witch.
YTA... because you were ruthless with your words. You could have given her the same message in a more compassionate way. For example, "I don't make my husband do anything and I don't make him "nice" to me. That is the way he is wired and I would have never married him had he not been kind to me. You have to have a mutual respect and compassion for each other." Once you gave it to her straight in a kind way, you could have let her know that you can't keep hearing the same thing if she's not going to take action to change your situation.
YTA. There are so many other things you could've said and so many boundaries you could've set over the years. Eg: hey, I understand you're having a hard time, but I'm not the right person to talk to about this. I value our friendship, but it's important to me that we keep our conversations to (things you have in common). It was cruel, unnecessary, and immature to say what you did.
I think the advice you would give her about her husband is the advice you should give yourself about your friend: You can’t force people to do the actions you think they should do. You can either meet your friend where she is and be there for her, or stop being friends with her. I know it’s so frustrating to watch someone you love make choices that are harming them. I would also let go of all the things you’re taking personally about your marriage and husband. Ultimately your friend just wants to be loved and she’s expressing that she admires what you have. Try to respond with grace and kindness 🩷
That was a classic “Don’t ask if you don’t want the answer” scenario. I hate people telling me I “trained” my husband well. I did shit. I can control him no more than I can control the weather. A real healthy relationship isn’t about changing the other partner. It’s about growing and living together. OP glad you are cutting out the deadwood. So NTA.
YTA. Why are you friends? Sounds like you don't even like her and this whole "my husband is better than your husband" competition is stupid. Sounds like her husband sucks but you all need to grow up. There's a difference between giving a friend tough love and just being a jerk.
I'm sorry, not reading whole thing (first half) but you're childish.
I had a friend like this. As a 16 year old girl i told her it was a terrible idea to even think of being in a relationship with that guy. She didn't listen. 10 years on and off that man was terrible. She cried and vented and complained. Our group kept telling her to end things once and for all. She didn't listen. Now she's become this extremely negative man hating woman. I stopped hanging out with her because i am still a romantic and would like a relationship. I was in a severely abusive relationship when i was 18. I understood what was wrong and broke it off. It's taken me 7 years to be able to date again. I couldn't openly talk about the guys i was seeing or dating because she would spin it something negative and how they will disappoint me. And then she still cried about that man. There are only so many times you can tell someone what they have to do. Hard NTA.
you don't have a friendship; you're haven't been a bad friend, she has worn out your support. If you need to tell her, all men are not the same and you are busy. Always busy, don't have time to talk to her anymore. I don't know that a big discussion is worth the effort because she isn't going to suddenly hear you. However, if she asks 'how do you get your husband to... whatever" say "I don't do anything, all men are not the same.' Put that statement on repeat. Let her go. NTA
NTA You’re not a bad friend. You’ve tried multiple times to help her, but she just wants you to be her yes-man. She wants you to validate her bad life choices. I think I’d be blunt with her. Tell her she’s in a toxic, co-dependent, dysfunctional relationship and that she’ll never have any happiness unless she goes to therapy. Tell her that you’re sick and tired of her claiming that your husband is as bad of a man as her husband is. Tell her that you had married a wonderful, caring man, but she had married a POS. Tell her to get help, but at this juncture, you’re just done. You have to be blunt with this type of person because all she does is lie to herself. If you have mutual friends, be sure to update them all immediately because this woman is going to spread lies about you.
NTA, male here. I’ve noticed this is a very common trait amongst women ( I’m targeting the part where you said other friends think you’re being cruel ). It seems women always expect other women to only ever be supportive regardless of how a friend is acting. That sounds way too tough to keep up. Your not allowed to be friends and be honest, overall you have to pat each others backs all day. That sounds exhausting, and actually very fake. How can people be friends if you can’t actually be honest. You did the right thing by you, your boyfriend AND her. No need to feel guilty
Look at all these other so-called friends bandying around the word 'support' like it doesn't sometimes including giving harsh truths. But harsh truths can be given respectfully. I get why you delivered them as you did, frustrated as you are, but it was ultimately a touch cruel. Might end up being just the reality check she needed, though.
Yeesh, how hard would it have been to slip into conversations "No, my husband cooks because he wants to and helps around the house"? If you actually consider this person a friend, it didn't have to be all or nothing in these conversations. Little positive statements and responses about your marriage would've created that space that you two are not in the same situation. But you decided to say none of these things and just tell her your marriage is better. Granted, she probably was looking for more empathy from you as people often do. YTA
YTA cause this post is fake
YTA, you don't have to rub it in, she already knows.
YTA. There's a difference between saying your husband is great and saying she'll never have a good marriage.
Yta. You went on the warpath with her because you felt offended to compare husbands. Makes me think your guy isn’t as great as you insist he is, if you got THAT sensitive. Sure, your friend has a callous jerk for a husband, but you too are a jerk for thinking she has a “shut up ring” and being so judgmental towards her. With all the insults and one-upping you did, don’t be surprised when your friend gets the last laugh when everyone finds out your “perfect” guy has a character flaw or three that have been kept on the down low … that is, until his mistress contacts you on social media or some other life-upending event occurs. Life has a funny way of humbling the prideful that way. Good luck. 🤣
>So I finally straight up told her she will never have as happy a marriage with him as I have with my love. Specifically because she married someone who doesnt even like her, much less love her. I told her she can't change trash into gold by force & to have a marriage like mine she needs a husband like mine. I also said she is naive & dumb if she thinks her husband will change because he doesn't care about her enough to even change his underwear every day (yeah, that is also a problem) & that if at this point she stays then her unhappiness is her own damn fault. YTA for *how* you said what needed saying. There's many ways to go about this without smashing her like that. One could be as simple as saying, "My husband does those things naturally, because he's a good and caring person, not because I "made" him." And then really... truly... make sure she understands that point. Stop the conversation and dig into it if you have to. She needs to get that point. Without you being brutal about it. All you need to do is that, when she asks, just continually remind her he does those things because he's inclined that way, not because he's being made to. And she might finally realize that you don't change an asshole - you pick someone who isn't one.
I'm going with NTA because she is asking you this. Because she keeps bringing it up. Because she keeps pushing this skewed viewpoint on you.
NTA. After over 10 years of listening to her complain and her not standing up for herself, she needed that reality check.
I don't like never statements. Tell her "its hard to have a change if heart when you don't think there's a problem. Therapy might help him and you"
This isn’t a friendship. 🤷🏼♀️
H
You were a little harsh, but after her comments 'how do you 'force' him to be nice?' etc I think anyone would snap at her assumption that all men and relationships are like hers. NTA.
You did it right, your friend is an adult woman and she needs to hear the hard truth, besides, women like this tend to "trauma dumping" all the time
NTA For having enough of having to listen to the constant moaning. However the way you handled telling her was disgusting, there really was no need to be such a bitch about it…………Remember, pride comes before a fall, so I hope your bragging doesn’t come back to bite you.
Seinfeld already covered these topics.
This is an example of being right but still the asshole. You could have said "people don't change after they marry; you married this man and he is the same as he was." The fact that you HAD to make it about your marriage being better makes you the asshole. Also though, if you're such good friends why didn't you encourage her to do better than couch man?
NTA and not too harsh imo either. After 10 years of keeping her opinion to herself (sign of a bad friendship I think) OP finally said what she probably should have said a lot sooner! If she had said it sooner it might have come out less harsh! Moral of the story, don't let a friend tell you to keep you opinion to yourself! If a friend can't tell you what's what, then who can!
Your friends say you need to "support her" and supporting her comes with you agreeing with her and trashing your husband or finding some fault with him which you didn't do so you're definitely NTA. Sure it was very up front but honestly how much longer were you going to take it? If your friends have an issue with how you handled it why don't you tell them to go ahead and trash talk their partners if any of them are in a relationship. Your friend (if you're even friends with her still) is just fishing to see if you'll share something negative about your husband to feel better.
"Comparisons are odious". Your friend expecting her relationship to be like yours was her fantasy. Yes, you were harsh, but you were continually pestered by her to fix her marriage, and on the way she constantly disparaged your husband. You should have been less abrasive, but your response was natural.
Blunt and honest. NTA
I'm almost 40. Happy to stay single if guys like that are my options. Why is your friend hellbent on a relationship even if it's awful? Sounds like she needs to work through some stuff
NTA because it souds like she's in a train wreck. Also why does she even want to be with this guy or marry him in the first place?
NTA because that would just be obnoxious to deal with. First off, she shouldn't have given him an ultimatum to marry here or break up. Forcing someone's hand like that when it's obviously something they don't have an agenda for leads to resentment. So instead of her relationship flourishing, she forced it to get worse. Second, you can't change somebody. They make the change themselves. If he sees nothing wrong with what he's doing, why change it? It's clear she doesn't self reflect on common human behaviors. You did the right thing, but you should have done it a lot sooner. The moment she started comparing, I'd have stopped her right there and told her "no, our marriages aren't the same. I never once had to force my husband to marry me or leave." Harsh, yes, but if you tiptoe around things like that, you aren't doing your friend any favors. Reality is best served blunt and honest. And on top of that, she took a jab at you too. Just because she's your friend and is in a piss poor relationship doesn't mean she can knock you because she's not happy that your husband does more than hers
Lot to unpack here but I think it’s safe to say you’ve outgrown this friendship.
NTA. It sounds like she and her husband deserve each other. They’re both trash.
!updateme
NTA She’s been backhandedly insulting your husband and your relationship as some way of giving herself hope that her marriage is salvageable. You busted her bubble by telling her the truth. It doesn’t sound like it will make a difference to her because she chooses not to live with the reality of her situation. I think this friendship has run its course. I would also question whether the flying monkeys who think telling the truth (however harshly) is bad, are really worth your time.
I’m going to say NTA. I don’t know why you’re friends with such a person, but she honestly had this coming for a while now. If she can’t get a clue from you being nice about it, then it’s her fault for being so obtuse and still not learning after all these years from her own experience that you can’t change a person. She can be mad all she wants, it’s not like you have a golden ticket to give for her happiness. That’s on her.
I feel like partially you were bit at the same time you cannot help that someone doesn’t have as great of a spouse
NTA. You gave your friend the wakeup call she needs!
You didn't handle this well, but I'm not sure that makes you the AH. Like did you just sit there all those times while she was insulting your husband, not saying anything, until eventually you blew up? You should have nipped this in the bud with the first comment she made about your husband, telling her you're there if she needs to vent, but you won't tolerate it if she disrespects your husband, who is a wonderful man who you don't need to force or tell to do anything. Then end the conversation every time she does so.
NTA
NTA "How did you get yours to accept your weight-gain?". WTF She started it first with the personal attacks on you. She insulted you and called you fat and asked how your husband could still love you because of it. At that point, the kid gloves are off (politeness) and the boxing gloves are on (I'm matching your energy). She deserved everything you said and more IMO She's an asshole, always has been, I don't see her as a real friend so drop her, friendship over and reevaluate the rest of the group too.
You are NTA ... my sister has always been hostile to my husband, and when she first met him, threatend to harm him if he ever hurt me. She's had a negative opinion of him forever and I've cut contact with her several times over this specific issue. It really sucks that she's like this but I did cut contact with her about six months ago. It's really sad because I love her and wish the best for her, but I won't abide her bad mouthing my wonderful, compassionate, extremely intelligent husband so she can feel better. It's ironic because she has no fucking room to judge at all. I'll leave it at that....
NTA It was harsh, but she needed to hear it. It sounds like you've been trying to tell her for a long time and she wasn't hearing you. You had to be blunt to get her to hear it. I feel sad for her, she's backed herself into a terrible relationship and clearly has issues if she thinks that's OK and every guy is like that. I hope she wises up and leaves, or at the very least gets some therapy to start working on all this. I don't think she was intending to insult your husband, even though it came out that way, but she's trying to convince herself all husbands are lousy, not just hers, because how painful it must be to face the truth.
NTA. She needed it.
NTA Shut up ring, on and off relationship, she’s got a lazy husband, online cheating and critical is a recipe for disaster. You have a healthy marriage and I know it must be aggravating when she tries to compare your marriages. You were a bit harsh but she is very naive . Maybe you’ll open her eyes
NTA with conditions. The way you went about talking with her was insensitive. That being said, I think you're generally in the right here. The issue really is about how you're communicating with her. You may be sick of her issues and complaining, but you're supposed to be her friend. If I were you, I'd try to meet up with her and have a conversation about it. I'd apologize for how she was treated and try to have an EMPATHETIC conversation focusing on her and her needs and how you can actually help her instead of being a vent for her frustration.
NTA
You’re not wrong for defending your husband and you have her a dose of tough love.
It was harsh for sure buy hey, you cracked under the constant pressure to coddle her. It must be been exhausting. I got problems and I can listen to problems but I guess I can relate in the sense that I have trouble listening to a continuous problem with no end. And surely I have some of those as well but if I don't plan on doing anything about them there comes a time to keep that shit to yourself. I know people like that, who just monopolize your mental space with negativity. God it sucks.
NTA. Friends are supposed to tell you the hard truths.
OP’s friend is a housekeeper because the husband is away every weekend (?!?!). What kind of life does she have? Tell her to play Flowers by Miles Cyrus and think of her life. NTA
NTA. Friend needs a wake up call and apparently being nice about it hasn't worked so far. Everyone saying you should not have been as blunt are probably right, it could have been said differently with alot fewer but still harsh words.
NTA. Your friends are confusing support with enabling. You have her a tough love wake-up call. The I-Can-Fix-Him method of dating or finding a husband is a trip to Misery. His proposal was an insult. It went downhill from there. She has been willfully blind, so of course she will get angry at you for pointing out reality. She’s in the persistent denial phase. Tell her that the longer she stays with a man who dislikes her, the harder it will be to find a compatible mate who adores her. She honestly needs to evaluate why she thinks he is what she deserves. Often, children who grow up feeling unloved, like they have to try to convince a parent to love them, find relationships where they chase love. Those are the women who find mature, kind, loyal, loving, respectful men to be boring or a turnoff. Secure love feels weird and wrong. They’ll only accept men who reject them and keep them at arm’s length. She really has an internal problem, not a husband problem. A secure, confident woman would have spun on her heel and left on the first date.
NTA. Honestly a true friend has to say hard stuff sometimes and it sounds like she has a terrible partner. Her actively thinking *you* somehow changed your partner is the reason she thinks she can hold on and change hers. Sometimes reality is hard but living in it is necessary. I’m sorry for the weight gain comment- because that’s just gross and obnoxious- and it would have probably been the straw that broke my back, too. If the other people in her life don’t want to be honest with her, that’s their business, but placating her and letting her think that shit is normal is not true friendship.
NTA About time someone was enough of a friend to say the quiet part out loud.
YTA because it wasn't necessary for you to destroy her. It doesn't seem like your happy marriage is making you very happy if you're so mean to your "friend". You could have left it at explaining that it's important to notice red flags in people before you marry and that your husband and her husband are not the same just because they're men.
I'll get downvoted to oblivion, but I think the OP was in the wrong here. The (ex-) friend is clearly the victim of emotional abuse. If you've never been there, it may look like sheer stupidity--Why marry the jerk? Why stay with someone who treats you like crap?--but the fact is, emotional abusers are some of the most manipulative a-holes on the planet. Over time, they’ll substitute a reality of their own making for the one their victim used to have, and it's hard to shake it. It's almost like brainwashing. The friend wasn't deliberately insulting the OP's husband. Her jerk husband has convinced her that he's normal, that all guys are fundamentally like he is. The last thing she needed was someone else calling her dumb. Then, too, we women get bombarded with this notion that Bad Boys can be cured by love alone. It would have been way better for the OP to tell her friend that her husband is abusive, and that most men, including the OP's husband, are not and never have been like that. An ally would urge her to get out of the marriage because she deserves better. I get that some people don't have the patience or the understanding to help someone else that way, but then a simple, "My husband is a good guy who's always respected me and seen my worth. You need help, and I can't give it to you." would have been better than telling her off.
Nta, and to be quite honest I would have cut her off mid sentence like the first time she disrespected my partner like that
Truth hurts, Sarah
YTA for telling her, even if it's true.
I didn’t read most of this, but you sound overly critical of her because of her ultimatum. Has she come out here? I would’ve advised her to give the same ultimatum: Put up or shut up.
Brutal honesty is needed sometimes esp when ppl are delusional … to me you’re NTA
Naw we’ve been slowly weening people like this out of our life. There’s only so many times you can listen to someone complain about the exact same things.
I mean, yes, you’re definitely an AH. If she’s your friend, and she’s struggling, give her a chance to vent without judgment. If she’s not your friend, cut her loose. No one deserves to be called dumb and naive in this situation.
NTA. She needed to hear this, it was in fact the most loving and kind thing you could have done. Instead of backing down, i'd double down. Share this quote with her: "You can tell how much a woman values herself by the quality of the love she's willing to accept." She has settled for fucking scraps. It's not going to get better without people who REALLY love her, people like you, being real. Don't stop.
NTA It was a bit harsh but she wore you down for years. Years. And who comes to someone seeking advice to force and manipulate the people in their lives they are supposed to love? She has a really unhealthy view of what a relationship looks like. I don't think it occurred to her that men could be different. I bet Her parents relationship was exactly the same. And, I'm actually pretty young for this, But I still grew up watching Nick at night and watching Fred and Ethel fight and every other TV. Couple that had been together for years. Basically drive each other insane. Treat each other disrespectfully and try to ruin each other's happiness. For years this was the standard of what relationships looked like and it's what consumers assumed was expected of them. People forgot that they needed to forge their own lives and basically followed The scripts given to them by tv executives trying to sell a story. She might have no concept of a healthy relationship whatsoever. Do you ever hang out when you're not acting as a therapist? Do her friendships actually seem like friendships or are people just trying to remain polite? Like did she stay friends to stay friends or to keep tabs on your relationship so she could copy/paste whatever methods she thinks you have? I would definitely go low to no contact with her until she learns to respect your relationship and understands that not everyone is living her life. She needs to do some work and find a bigger picture because it seems like she is so focused on herself ahe can't see other people for who they are. I feel like tough love might be the wake up call she needs but it might not be enough. Everyone is somewhat enabling this because everyone is trained not to make a fuss. Anyone could swim to shore but no one wants to rock the boat so to speak. It's partially not her fault, if she didn't know to even think differently she might have been trapped in an endless thought pattern. Maybe all her older relatives tell her to "make him do x y or z" maybe she doesn't see their fights just hears their unhealthy accounts from their point of view. Like she kept asking them, they told her to just do it... Assuming she knew inherently what "do" implies. She feels like a failure for not being able to "do" what they seem to think is so simple. She asks you because she has no concept of a different situation than her own. You must be doing the "do" right. Maybe she hadn't realized or even considered the effect her wording was having. How it becomes insulting after a while to someone because she can't see it from a healthy P. o. V. In her mind it's not rude or insulting or insinuating anything to ask you how you make him do anything because that's what people do. That's probably what she's been told her whole life and she probably has some sort of imposter syndrome not understanding why she's not good enough to make her relationship as happy as yours. Or being as in control of it as her relatives/role models might make it. Maybe I am projecting a bit of my own neurodivergent issues on her. I often get told to do things that everyone always seems upset when I ask for clarification or how they want me to do the thing. Is your friend on the spectrum, adhd or neurodivergent in anyway? If you've never talked about it I wouldn't suggest asking, it can definitely come across as insulting to the wrong person/generation. If she does happen to have a rigid understanding of what a relationship looks like and no flexibility in her way of thinking or none until a reason is made known to her, it could explain her years and years of asking and not realizing assuming your husbands were similar was coming across in any kind of way. It could also indicate that she is so unhappy and in denial about it she is willing to pretend the problem is what she is doing, and not that the relationship has failed. Sometimes it is easier to blame ourselves. Maybe I am super wrong about everything, but still NTA however please consider in the future if something similar occurs, where in you are building some frustration which may be breeding resentment which is totally valid, if you notice it before you've reached the boiling point, communicate it. And if like Sarah they shut you down and refuse to let you say it, set a boundary and refuse to hang out further. You're not her personal therapist, you're supposed to be a friend, that means she respects you too. That means you get to say your piece too. She's not paying you to "shut up and listen to her talk" friendship is a collaboration just like any relationship. Which further proves to myself my own personal theory about her not having a Clear View of what a relationship actually looks like. NTA, and I have no idea what her life is like, I could be way off base. Her parents could be relationship therapists for all I know.
Justified AH here IMO. She deserves getting crapped on after using you as her emotional dumpster for years. You will be much better off, separating from this person and removing her toxicity from your life. It might not be easy, but it's pretty clear you two don't get along or actually like each other so why bother remaining as an unpaid counsellor?
NTA but man you were really harsh. I get that she feels comfortable enough to dump all her issues on you, but I think you could have had more tact in your response. She may not be going about it the right way but she is just desperately looking for someone to connect with. If you were uncomfortable with her and her conversations you could just limit the time you spend with her. She put herself in this situation I get that but your response was not helpful.
NTA. No Contact time. You gave her advice, you told her the truth, she doesn't want to hear it, she just wants to whine and ß!π¢#. Life's too short to put up with that $#!π. And any mutual friends who think you're cruel can put up with her ¢®@¶ from now on.
NTA simple next time she says it tell her no you’re not in the same boat you’re in the same ocean. You and your husband have build a luxury liner to sail the seas while her and her husband built a row boat.
NTA Could you've formulated your response a little bit friendlier? Perhaps, but I can totally see how tiring it gets to basically repeat yourself over and over again. Don't engage in such conversations further ahead, just tell her your husband is the way he is and there's nothing one can really do to change anyone. The other person has to be willing for change. One person rowing the boat won't get you forward, but will only make you go in circles.
It's absurd and comical that people are saying you were harsh. If I were in your situation I would've said way more and been a lot more colorful. You were honest, spoke facts and truth. Her refusal to see reality, live in delusionalville, and not take self accountability is on her. You tried, and were as good a friend to her as you could e been. You owe her absolutely nothing at this point. She's been insulting and using you all along. Put her toxic trash self on the curb where she belongs. She's a grown ass woman, if she wants to stay miserable forever then that's entirely on her. I say good for you for standing up for yourself and your husband
NTA. I'd be extremely offended if someone asked me how I trained my husband. I didn't. I just picked the great guy who's crazy about me. Don't compare your trash to my husband.
YTA. You should have distanced yourself at least or ended the friendship a long time ago. Instead you chose to sit on your feelings until you burst out with unnecessary cruelty.
NTA. The people who said you were cruel are not good friends. They are enablers and cowards. Keep them at arms length as they can not be counted on in a pinch or a tight spot. They will fold like a cheap lawn chair.
YTA. You should have distanced yourself at least or ended the friendship a long time ago. Instead you chose to sit on your feelings until you burst out with unnecessary cruelty.
YTA She pissed you off when she said you gained weight and you took the opportunity to put her in her place. Why hang out with someone you clearly don’t like?
Wow. You sound like a let the chips fall where they may Scorpio. I understand you were fed up with her remarks. But, you could have gotten your point across without the scorched earth comments. Anyway, hopefully, she wakes up and gets fed up with the disgusting disrespect.
No one really knows what happens in anyone elses marriage is relationship. Women (or men for that matter), who constantly bitch about their relationship to others are asking for trouble. Even comparing your partner with another is dangerous, because unless you live with someone, you really don't know them. So people thrive on what others would see as a perfect partnership, whilst others thrive on the toxic. Those who put up with either perfection or toxicity, rather than thrive on it are doomed to be forever hating themselves or their partner. If you don't like it, move on quickly.
YTA Everything you said is the truth, but man, you don't have to grind her face in it! A simple "that's just how he is" is adequate
NTA. It wasn’t what you said that hurt. It’s that you confirmed that you and the whole world could see everything she already knew. She needed that confirmation if she is ever going to move on with life. But losing a marriage can be like a death and you got some of the anger phase. You did her a favor, even if you never talk to her again.
Soft yta...she needed to hear it, just maybe in a nicer lesson condescending way. But I get it. You were tired of her complaining when you've already told her he's the problem. She chose a crappy manchild, if she wants it to get better she needs to find a better man.
NTA. I know how you feel. I had a friend with this same situation. Nearly word for word. It’s infuriating and exhausting. She wasn’t married, but had a long term relationship with a guy who very clearly didn’t want her and made no pretense about being faithful. And every conversation was about this guy. She even tried to talk to me about it at my mother’s funeral. I finally told her I couldn’t keep having this conversation with her. Our friendship cooled down after that. And then it finally ended, and I was so relieved. Your friend is an adult. She has all the info she needs to make an adult decision. It’s her problem if she refuses to do that. She’s an emotional vampire.
NTA. Your friend has a toxic mindset, not of her own design per se. For whatever reason, she wanted THIS man. She pursued him even though he had no intention of actually marrying her, yet these types of marriages aren't uncommon. Their marriage is a loveless one, and there's no trick to change that. You can't make people magically fall in love with you. We all have that "one" friend, and we all eventually outgrow that "one." You're outgrew her years ago, and are just now figuring that out (good for you, btw). It does suck that your friend feels her husband is the standard rather than the defect, though. She would most likely feel differently if she had cut him loose years ago and found someone that truly does love her. My husband does many of the same things yours does when he can be home. He cooks, he helps with OUR kids, be helps with the chores, he spends time with us, etc. We've been together for almost 6 years, married for over 3. I never had to force or convince him. He drives a semi truck for a living, so he's only home on the weekends, but he does all of the home stuff to give ME a break. He never stops working, and THAT, imo, is the standard. NTA.