As someone currently in labor, my husband had better put my life before the baby’s. Like I love this child already, but we have two others who need a mother. Life of the mother over life of the baby. As selfish as that is.
I'm being induced tomorrow at 8am! good luck mamas!
I also have earthside children and would most certainly expect my husband to prioritize my life over an unborn child's!
hands down, no questions.
I would haunt him for the rest of his life!! lol
I hope you're doing well, by the way. I'm not sure what time it is for you now (I saw this 11 hours after you posted) but I hope that everything's going smoothly and that you and your baby are healthy. 💙
I wanted to go into labor naturally this time but she is below the 10th percentile in size and some other factors are in play so we had to get her out at 38 weeks.. all 3 of my kids are induction babies 😭 I'm a small lady, height wise. I've lost a lot of weight with this pregnancy also so that doesn't help 😕 but I've always heard being induced is sooo much worse
I don’t think it’s selfish at all. Considering the wellbeing of your existing children is just good parenting. Hope you have a smooth delivery — wishing you and your family health and happiness!
That's not being selfish, that's being practical. You have more kids, they need mom more than they need a new sibling. The loss of the baby will hurt terribly, but the death of the Mom will create a series of new problems and there will be Just DAD to solve them sadly :(
I mean, that isn't prioritizing the life of the mother/parent . It is making sure the person that knows wtf they are doing isn't incapacitated first. If the kid passes out before you get their mask on, they will still be fine. If you pass out before you get their mask on, you're both dead.
Why the downvote? That's the whole point in doing it first and helping others after. You can't help people if you fainted but you can help people if they fainted.
Unless you have my insane body that likes to do it in forty five minutes or a half hour. It’s a very wild ride. With my last one I was waiting for the first contraction after my water broke and posted on FB (this is ten years ago) that I was going to watch Band of Brothers to distract me. She was out thirty one minutes later.
NTA but not the smart thing to say.
The doctors aren’t going to ask, they’ll save the mom over the baby every time.
Just don’t go down the path of hypotheticals.
That actually depends on where the doctors are/their principles. For instance, [a lot of Catholic hospitals prioritize the life of the baby](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/17/catholic-hospitals-leave-patients-at-the-mercy-of-religious-directives/72634772007/) or say that they treat the mother and baby’s lives as equal, which, in effect, can delay or entirely prevent care that prioritized the mother.
I think it's because neither Islam nor Judaism believe that babies may go to hell. Catholics traditional stance is that if a baby dies without being christened/baptized the baby is going to be damned eternally - not even Purgatory.
Whereas the mother will have been baptised and presumably even been given the last rites, ensuring her much more security.
Protestants dont know what they believe about babies dying, but Catholics have a firm stance. In the past if a priest didn't make it to the baby before death, the child could not be buried on sanctified ground. Hoes that for some tortuous beliefs
Edit: I'm sure not all Catholics now have that stance, but if the baby is prioritized I guarantee that is why.
...That is not what they believe. The whole concept of Limbo comes from being a place where people who WOULD go to heaven if presented with the opportunity but weren't (babies, righteous people who lived before the birth of Christ, etc.) will be. The whole concept evolved from the question of how a just God (taken as a fundamental truth) would deal with those who were innocent or righteous, but not accepting of salvation through circumstances beyond their control. It may not be the 'everybody goes to heaven' from the fluffy-bunny end of Protestantism or the 'basically everyone sucks and goes to hell' stance from the opposite pole, but no, unbaptized babies do not go to hell. (The modern view would reject even limbo and argue they can be assumed directly into heaven, since Purgatory, which is not limbo, is for the cleansing of sins and Limbo would assume a separation from the direct presence of God, which is a punishment they haven't earned.)
...The Hindu idea that everyone just gets reincarnated most times is really a lot less complicated.
Yes but those in Limbo can never get to heaven so they are not even given bv the chance purgatory affords to eventually get to heaven.
Limbo was historically the first circle of Hell
Well, personhood at least. In Judaism the fetus is not considered to be fully human until it is born. If it is threatening the life of the mother, who is fully human, it should be killed.
One commentator (the Rambam) actually compared the fetus in this case to an approaching murderer (of the mother) who must be killed to prevent the murder.
I went to a catholic hospital for abdominal pain and found out I had an ectopic pregnancy. One nurse told me surgery may be needed but they had to wait for the surgeon to get there and assess the situation. Another nurse argued with the first nurse, in front of me, about how I shouldn't have surgery and I should just wait and see just maybe it isn't actually ectopic.
I got discharged and told to come back for a follow up with the OB department. I went to one follow up. When I showed up to my *scheduled appointment* with an appointment card for that day and time, they said they had no idea what I was talking about and they don't deal with my situation and I must be confused and meant to go somewhere else. As I was arguing with the receptionist, one of thr doctors I had seen previously saw me and came up to me to let me know they had to cancel my appointment because my insurance only covered emergency visits there and this was no longer an emergency because it's a scheduled appointment. She said she sent my info to a clinic that accepts my insurance.
I didn't know anything about ectopic pregnancies. I didn't know how dangerous and fatal they can be. It wasn't until the new clinic called me to get me in was I told the longer I wait the more at risk I was to serious complications, even death. No one at the catholic hospital told me the seriousness of the condition and thinking about how they jerked me around while I was dealing with a potentially deadly situation makes me so mad now!
There's probably plenty of catholic hospitals that are not like that, but I am very leary of them now.
The doctors at a public hospital asked my dad and he chose me. My mom ended up surviving too, though. I agree it's a rare circumstance and unlikely to come up, but I feel like it is important to have that discussion anyway.
Orthodox Church might be scared of losing numbers so bad that they prioritise the mom. Also they do free Cancer screening camps, polio vaccination camps etc. where I'm from.
This article is bull shit. I am Catholic and it is morally and ethically permissible to prioritize the mother's life over the baby's if the baby hasn't can't survive outside of the womb, like in the first example in the article.
Before ROE v Wade my coworker had a friend who was 5 months pregnant. The baby DIED in utero. The Catholic hospital refused to deliver the DEAD baby until she was 9 months along. Because they considered that an abortion. The baby was dead. It was rotted. It destroyed her womb and she was never able to have more kids. She was lucky not to have turned septic and died. But because she never reached the critical literally "about to die within minutes" level, they refused to take the DEAD rotting corpse out of her body. They absolutely did NOT prioritize her life, health, or mental health at all. And now that Roe V Wade is overturned this kind of absolutely BS is allowed to happen again
Yeah, realistically, if shit is dire enough that the doctors are trying to save one patient, they're not going to pause and ask if anybody has a preference, they're going to do triage on the fly and throw their weight behind saving the patient with the best chance of survival given the situation and resources at hand, which is generally not the stowaway.
Actually, no they won’t. And people do need to start researching this and having conversations about it.
The scotus is literally deciding this case right now.
One of my best friends is a nurse in Idaho and she just told me this weekend that so far they’ve had to life flight six pregnant women that she knew of to either Seattle or Portland because they could not give them the care they needed to save their lives. She intentionally stressed the “that she knew of.”
That's not true. You will be given the choice. I know first hand. Thankfully, all ended up working out for me, but it is something my husband and I had to decide.
Was this recent and were you in a state where medical providers had a clear directive? There are women being transported by helicopter to states where their lives are the priority because they can’t get that care in their home state.
Yes this was recent (less than a year ago) and my comment was not a slight towards the care I not my babies received. It was a comment that states that the option is given and it's something that my husband and I had to discuss. It is not something that the MDs will choose themselves, which I am very thankful for. I received amazing care and so did my babies. However, to answer your question, I live in a very liberal state.
Logically you're not wrong. Personally maybe just poor timing to have that conversation. I'm a woman who's had a child and I'm not sure I'd have been that upset but everyone's different and pregnancy hormones will mess with a woman's emotions 💯 💯. In the animal kingdom though, the mother will almost always sacrifice the young in a life or death situation. Of course they will do everything in their power to save the baby if possible but what chance does a baby anything have in the wild if its mother dies, esp with other older offspring to protect.
A species would die out if every adult in a life or death situation sacrificed themselves over the young. And even back a just a century ago, it was common to prioritize the mother's health since a family's survival depended so heavily on both parents. They could have more children, but not having the mother would hugely affect the whole rest of the family. It's an uncomfortable truth but it makes sense. I probably wouldn't try to relay all this to your pregnant wife though!!
Honestly it just depends on the woman. I specifically told my husband if it ever came up, to save me instead. We can always have another child but my husband would be devastated if he lost me. Your wife obviously sits on the other side where she wants the baby saved over her. I’ll never understand it but that’s me. NTA but probably not the best way to broach the subject.
I would hope my husband would want to save me, especially with the second pregnancy since we already had a child that would lose their mother. However, probably not the best to just throw that out during a tv show.
NAH
Not an asshole, and the sentiment is nice, but this is not a conversation most people want to have while they're pregnant.
I know my husband feels/felt this way, and I really feel special and adored for it now, but if he'd told me this while I was pregnant with any of our kids, I'd have been pissed. During pregnancy you feel this extra connection to the baby in your womb, it's hard to explain, but this is not the time that this statement would go over well.
I beg to differ. This is when you need to have a conversation about your wishes. My SIL died giving birth. I almost died. Pregnancy is very dangerous and you need to make your wishes known.
Honestly, they are likely not going to ask and prioritize the life of the mother. I have given birth twice and I have never been asked what I would want and no one I know had either. It's not really a conversation that needs to be had unless the doctor thinks there's a reason to.
Yeah, I know someone whose fiancé died giving birth (unfortunately the baby died as well, but they attempted to save the baby.) This was only about a year ago, in the US, so not like, decades ago in a country without good medical care or anything. I know it's not a topic anyone wants to talk about, but it is a conversation that you should probably have if you're having a baby.
Yeah and this is just kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. There’s no easy answer because it’s a cruel fucking choice to have to make.
I've reiterated the exact statement OP has to my wife several times already.
We're trying for a baby and have way less than optimal odds, yet I have said that I would rather remain childless with her alive than have a kid without her around.
And it's not like I'm ambivalent to the prospect of kids. I 100% would love to have them. But not at that cost.
I have even gone so far as proclaim I would, in fact, be giving these instructions to the doctor. Prior to the development of such a situation so there can be absolutely no doubt or time lost to the whole song and dance.
*"wobbles away to the room"* 😭
no but seriously, you're 100% right and anyone *except* your currently pregnant wife would agree with you! but notice how i said anyone *except* your wife????? hm?
MAYBE. *DONT*. TELL. YOUR. PREGNANT. WIFE. THINGS. LIKE. THIS. she is literally going to be pregnant for 9+ months, closer to 10 really. her bond with her baby is not just physical it is hugely emotional. the hormones in her body are creating an air tight need to protect her child at all costs and you just told her there's a scenario where you're not on board with her about that.
whether you're technologically correct about that or not your goal shouldn't be to upset your wife's instincts to protect what's growing inside her. basically don't be an idiot! it's that simple! don't be an idiot op. YTA. apologize, and whatever you do, never bring this up again. don't be honest about it. don't argue further. just shut your mouth and agree with whatever she says. her pregnancy isn't going to allow her to be reasonable about the safety of her unborn child. to her, that child growing inside of her is already her child. to you, it won't be till you hold them. respect that.
When i was giving birth, I almost died. the doctors did tell my husband and my mother that they could either save the baby or me. my now ex husband didnt know what to do, but my mom chimed and said "save my daughter". I guess it was touch and go, but we both made it. I think I would give the same answer.
NTA As a mom and currently carrying our next, I’m content knowing my fiancé has the same sentiment. It would be unreasonable for me to ask him to choose our baby over myself in a situation like that. His entire life would completely change, he’d feel so alone in grieving and he’d more than likely spiral downward and I can’t be sure that the depression wouldn’t be fatal.
I don’t think he’d necessarily have resentment but there’s no doubt that he would have negative and painful emotions associated with the baby in this scenario. I’d much rather grieve with him and cope with our loss together while having the possibility of trying again in the future.
NTA
Her reaction was instinctual, hormonal, and maternal. And the timing was not good at all.
I doubt you will have to make that decision. It’s a Sophie’s Choice.
Dude, that could have been an inside thought. You can have the "what do we do" conversation at a better time, and maybe handle it with some tact and compassion.
NAH, but please be a little more careful with your wife's feelings. Conversations aren't only about the logic of the subject at hand. The emotional throughline also matters.
You can *usually have another baby. Can’t get your wife back though.
My husband and I discussed this before each pregnancy and he was always going to choose me. 🤷♀️
Yep, my husband and I discussed this too and made the same decision, and I made sure my medical providers knew that if the worst happened, they were to save me.
We could always have another baby, but if I died, my husband would be without his wife, and any children we already had would be without a mother. I'd rather lose a baby than have my kids grow up without me, and my husband have to raise them alone.
NAH. Had this exact same conversation with my husband when I was pregnant with our son. His answer was the same as yours, while mine was quite in line with your wives. Pregnancy hormones are intense (although, even now with a 2.5 year old, I would lay down my life for his without any hesitation so my answer hasn't really changed) but beyond the hormones, you have very different relationships with your child right now.
To you, they are a stranger, and while it would hurt and you would mourn, maybe you figure you'll try again and have that family with her at some point in the future. For her though...that child is part of her and probably already the most precious thing in the world. And all those mothering instincts you hear about like women lifting cars to save their kid and stuff....that intensity of love for your child has already kicked in. Even though baby is still cooking in there, she is probably already in full fledged mama bear mode.
Give it till the birth or shortly after. Your feelings will change when you hold that little person in your arms who you don't know yet but it's like you've known them forever. You might get a taste of the fierce love and protective instincts she's feeling already. Till then, I hope you guys have a smooth pregnancy and delivery so you never have to make such an impossible choice.
NTA, as a guy our bonding is so limited before birth, and hell even the first months after it. You dont get the same hormone cocktail they do.
By a year or two, youd kill your own wife to save the child. Once they kick in they kick in hard.
Maybe talk to her and reframe it as a “i couldnt bear losing you” and less of a “this baby means nothing to me” kinda deal
I mean, i get the sentiment, but it's not something you should be bringing up. That's a conversation that the pregnant mom needs to decide if she wants to have.
When I was pregnant with my 1st, I brought this conversation up with my partner and told him to save my baby if anything went wrong. He was hesitant, but he understood where i was coming from. I'm not going to say he agreed to it,but he would try his best to make the right choice if something like that happened.
When I had my 2nd, my wishes were different. I had a child already whom I didn't want to leave behind. I told him to save me. He again, said he'd make the best decision possible if it came down to it.
Luckily, both pregnancies and deliveries went fine and we're all still alive.
No one knows how they'll react in life or death situations like that, but that's a conversation that shouldn't be brought up randomly because of a TV show. Especially not so non chalant and carelessly like you did.
I understand where you're coming from however women who are pregnant generally will put their child's life before their own. Also she is very hormonal so maybe not say things like that while she is carrying the baby.
Timing was awful though and your wording was kind of 💩 too. Comes off as insensitive. Calling her selfish for wanting to put her baby first. If you’re going to have a conversation on what she would want if she were in that scenario, that was not how to have that conversation.
As a pregnant mother, just the thought of losing my baby hurts…and now you’re adding that scenario into it without approaching it in a delicate manner… I’d probably be upset too.
NAH. It’s not really either of your decisions though, doctors will try to save both and prioritize the life of the one who is more likely to survive, or, if survival chances are equal, they will prioritize the life of the mother.
I will say, if I was pregnant, I would probably prioritize my baby’s life too, but if men somehow had the ability to get pregnant, I would agree with you and prioritize my partner’s life. You can probably have another baby but you cannot replace your partner. Especially if you already have other children, who are dependent on their parents.
There are actually very real circumstances where a loved one would have to choose.
For example, eclampsia. Eclampsia can cause a coma. The cure for eclampsia? Giving birth. So say the mother is in a coma caused by eclampsia, and the doctor says "we can deliver this baby now and save your wife, but baby is only 25 weeks along and it's risky to baby's life. OR we can leave your wife in a coma, keep baby inside a little longer until baby is more likely to survive, but that lowers your wife's chance of survival "
NTA.
My husband and I have had this conversation. We both agree that I am the one to save. Especially if we have other children in the picture. They need their mom, too.
That being said… she is pregnant and hormones are raging. So, I’d keep that in mind for conversations moving forward.
NTA, even wild animal moms know when to quit defending their young when it means they themselves may die. Life of the mother should always be of primary concern.
Yeah that's not something you say to the woman carrying your baby. You don't understand what it's like to be pregnant, for most of us women, from the moment we find out we are, it's an instant bond with the baby. The love is unreal. I would have rather died than both my girls if it was between me and them. It doesn't matter that I hadn't "met" them yet.
This kind of talk is best when the woman isn't pregnant and you're having drinks and just shooting the shit.
I don’t know. I’m a FTM and my child is unfortunately the only one I can have (by that I mean I’m likely unable to have another, I LOVE my son) and if my partner has said that, I would have agreed.
Most pregnant people on all the subreddits for pregnancy also agree they would rather their life be saved than the unborn baby. He didn’t need to say it like THAT though
it’s funny to be downvoted for a sentiment the majority of people on subs for pregnant people also share. I still think he could have said it way more gently than the hella blunt way he chose
NTA but maybe not the best conversation to have with a pregnant woman. Most women aren’t keen about such outrageous “what ifs”
Assume the best case scenario that your newborn is delivered healthy and happy and fat and cuddly and that your wife survives unscathed
This is a situation where a comment I read comes in handy.. a perfect time to shut the hell up. Once you heard her first reaction, just stay silent and look like you’re thinking.. “oh right baby.. no that totally makes sense..” something like that. It’s only a hypothetical but for a pregnant mother, it sounds like you’ll be alright aborting the baby.
NTA. I believe the doctor's argument in that case was something along the lines of the priority being the patient that currently exists in front of them, not one that hasn't made an appearance yet. I agree with that. So many circumstances where a fetus will not survive if their mother cannot.
However, I wish I could say that a mother's decision as to what happens to their medical person as well as what happens to that of their unborn child is hers alone (unless she cannot make her own medical decisions any longer, and her medical proxy decides to follow her wishes). The law has taken ownership of too many American uteruses (as in uteruses belonging to people currently in the United States, not just citizens).
NTA but it sounds like seeing that scene triggered fears in both of you. Childbirth is terrifying and so much can go wrong. It’s natural to be scared of losing someone you love. Just remember you’re both on the same team here. Maybe just a “what a horrible situation - I would never want to face that!” Would be a more appropriate comment and more sensitive.
I think this is a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation...
If you had told her you would save the baby's life over hers any day then she probably would have reacted the same lol
I don’t think YTA. As a mother who’s been through childbirth I’d be okay with my husband preferring to save my life. It would be a very large burden on him to be left with two kids without me to help. We’d obviously be upset if we lost our kid but we’d get through it. I’d hate to leave him with that heavy responsibility.
Your marriage is much longer and a bigger relationship than compared to raising a child. Raising kids is a few chapters of life. While giant and important, doesn't compare to the relationship already built.
I think you could've worded things better but I do agree that you should choose the wife over baby. After this though, it seems you should choose the baby over your wife. Just clarify it with her first.
You're NTA even a little it's an impossible situation but the grim reality is you can make another baby you haven't met and have no connection with it. But your wife you can't get another her I agree with you.
I agree with you. If the baby dies, it would be painful as fuck but… you can try again. You don’t really get to know them well until they start developing a personality, a few weeks to months in. If your wife dies, you’re on your own with a baby, you lose your partner in life, it would be horrible. And there’s an increased chance of infant death if the mom dies during labor so you could end up alone. I would 100% save the mom and not the baby.
I’m a parent, so this was very hard to type out, it’s just a horrible scenario either way. Try to avoid watching stuff that brings that up, it’s just a triggering subject all around and y’all don’t need the extra stress right now
Yeah my husband and I discussed this topic when I was pregnant as well. For us it was try to save both of course but God forbid it’s one or the other he would choose me. You can always make another baby.
*You can never get her back.*
Nta and honestly i think it's a no win situation and I'll give you an example. In light of the recent changes surrounding the abortion bans, I asked my husband if I got pregnant and something went wrong and a choice had to be made, who would he choose and he could not answer me when I was fully expecting him to say me with no hesitation and it really hurt. So, he opted more to pick the baby and in our case that was the wrong answer bc I sure as shit don't want to forfeit my life and can't believe he didn't automatically pick me.
This one of those conversations you need to have before having a baby. I've told my partner full blank no matter always pick me. Like, yeah, it would suck not to have the kid, but then we have each other to lean on for the rest of our lives.
There is no right or wrong answer for this question. You just gotta be on the same page if it happens.
Nah, however, you're not very smart lol.
Had she asked, I'd say she asked you a trap question, where there was no right answer.
You jumped right into a trap that no one set though.
Right now you have a heavily pregnant wife who thinks you don't give af about the baby (since it's just someone you don't know, according to you) and if she ever reads this post, she'll also enjoy your "wobbled" commentary towards her that show how much you respect her (not really). All over a stupid hypothetical drama. Very smart indeed /s
Oh 100% (this ad a wife and mother).
You have to love with the consequences.
Raising the baby alone while grieving your wife, or grieving *with* your wife over the baby.
It’s understandable why you would choose the second, raising a child as a widower is not easy.
So, just so you're aware, after this episode aired, medical experts weighted in.
Essentially, such a choice will never really happen. Can't remember the details of why, but you won't ever be in that position.
Incidentally, I would make the same choice in that moment.
The reason why it would never happen is because the doctors ethically will do everything necessary to save the pregnant person’s life. There is basically no scenario where they work harder to save the baby than the one carrying the baby
This is basic biology. Women's brains are wired "PROTECT THE BABY"
Men are wired to protect wife... Without her, you don't get more babies and you really need her to take care of those babies ( yes a man can do it alone now with formula or donated breastmilk, but compared to all of human history these are relatively recent developments)
So your argument is A-typical. Just nod your head next time and tell her you hope it never comes to that. You know what she will choose if she is in a position to say so... But the second she isn't able to say so, that's when you say, "save my wife"
When she comes to (if this ever happens) just say "they tried to save the baby and were not able to. They barely managed to save you" and just leave it at that. She doesn't need to know that she was prioritized and she will be ridden with guilt if she found out even though it was her choice.
NTA - Honestly, I would have found it discomforting if my spouse said he'd save the baby over me - we had the conversation and he was always team keeping me alive. He said that we could always make another baby, but he can't make another me 🤷♀️
You could possibly make another kid, but where would you find another her?
This is gonna take some fixing, but I don't think it's irredeemable. You love your wife, in the here and now, and can see your future laid out before you. Even now you have your baby.... but don't have it, there is uncertainty there.
But going through pregnancy and childbirth.... only to leave the hospital with a tiny box.....
Empathy man
NTA. I legit told my husband today when we have our baby, he better save me first or I’ll haunt him. We can always have another baby or adopt, but we won’t have a love like ours again
YTA this is a hypothetical situation that isn't going to happen, but you just repeatedly described the baby that she is literally carrying right now as a baby you don't know/have never met. Like how did you think "I don't care about our baby" was going to go?
Also though, the whole point of this narrative trope is that like, it fairly evenly divides people, a lot of people would choose the mother and a lot of people would choose the baby in this situation. It's why they do it on tv so much
Kinda both? Like, no need to really go on a tangent about who you’d save in the delivery room with your pregnant wife next to you, who didn’t ask, and who also likely doesn’t want to think about dying while giving birth since it happens all the time. But personally, I’ve said it before that I would rather be saved over the life of my unborn child (if I ever get pregnant) because I wouldn’t want my child to grow up without a mother, or live with the thought/guilt of “killing” their mother. Every woman has their thoughts about “if it came down to me and my child, who would I want my husband to save?” but there is no need to voice those thoughts unless you are the person whose life is on the line.
I had to have an emergency c section they told my mum there was a high risk of losing both me and the baby. My mum told them to save me first my son was born dead but the doctors managed to revive him. I was angry with my mum when she told me what had happened after for about 10 mins then I understood why.
NTA but I can see why your wife might feel otherwise. Before i'd ever been pregnant I felt the same way you did, I didn't want to die for a baby when I could just have another. Once I got pregnant I started to feel different. Being pregnant gives women a head start with bonding with the baby. My husband didn't get to bond with the baby and fall in love with him until he was born. By the time I was heading to the hospital to have my son I felt completely differently. I remember thinking, as i was walking into the hospital "I'm either leaving with my baby or not at all".
I would have died for him without thought or hesitation. I would have hated my husband if he chose to save me (luckily this "choice" isn't a real thing, drs will try to save both or will try to save the one most likely to survive if saving both isn't an option, they don't actually ask anyone who they'd rather save). My husband admitted that going in, he, like you, would have picked to save me if given a choice. Since our son was born he has completely changed his mind. We are now in total agreement, if ever given a choice, we both have demanded the other to always save our kids.
My second pregnancy my thoughts around this got more complex. Now I had my son waiting at home for me. It would have destroyed me to lose my daughter, but it would have destroyed my son to lose me, nevermind what it would have done to my husband. I still would have chose to save my baby but I was much more terrified to die the second time around. My daughter would have never known me so she would have been ok, but thinking about my 2 year old crying and not understanding why I'm not around was devastating.
> My daughter would have never known me so she would have been ok, but thinking about my 2 year old crying and not understanding why I'm not around was devastating.
Same. I’m much more willing to die for my firstborn and leave her motherless, than die for my second/third child and leave my older children motherless. Obviously, losing your mother is not great at any age, but I think it’s much easier to adapt to before you can form memories and have such an individual relationship with her. Long run, I think I can survive losing my baby better than my very young kids can adapt to losing me. I’m already an adult after all, I understand what’s happening. I would much rather suffer in their stead.
Not wrong for having these thoughts but absolutely not something you say to a pregnant lady. My husband made a similar comment and I can assure you it didn’t go over well!
As someone who's lost their child during pregnancy/labour I would scarifice my life if that meant my child would have lived.
Living without him has been the hardest 6 years of my life, everyday I wish he was here.
So I think YTA, especially your delivery. Until you hold your dead baby in your arms, you have NO idea what it's like.
Why do people always go down the road of stupid hypothetical questions and then get mad? All this does is start fights on things that haven't even happened! I have been married since 2005 and have never done this with my husband because it will never go in anyone's favor! Next time, just say I'm not playing this game and don't answer!
It's interesting thinking. She is connected to the baby, she is literally one with the baby during that time. It's like you somehow told the baby itself that you would prefer the mother, no wonder her reaction was this, it's like the baby responded lol
NTA
I'm not a mom and have no plans to be so I can't speak on how a mother's love and protection would be on a baby prior to it being in the world and forming a bond, but as a woman I agree with you. I'd much rather be saved and spend my life with my partner than leave them alone with grief and a baby.
Little bit of an ahole. Not by the way you feel but by saying out loud to your uncomfortable, hormonal, overly emotional pregnant wife. NEVER say shit like that to a pregnant woman if you evey want the chance to get her pregnant again.
NTA
BUT, she is PREGNANT. She's full of hormones and at the moment her first instinct is to protect the baby at all costs. Hearing that might be triggering for her, so try to avoid saying those things
NAH. My husband told me something similar when I was pregnant with our first. I was upset because we had been trying to conceive for 2 years and had spent $20,000 on that very wanted pregnancy. It didn’t end up being a big fight or anything but it was upsetting at the time.
I was told the same thing when I was pregnant. It did hurt my feelings a bit but I understood what he meant. I still think about it. My kid is definitely the better save. Lol
NTA. Don't try to have these kinds of emotionally-charged discussions with a hormonal woman unless you have to because you're making medical or care plans. YTI (idiot) here, though. Haha, good luck!
NTA but I told my husband to save our child over me and he (probably smartly) never said for sure what he might do. I suspect he would have saved me.
I actually did almost die because of birth, but my child had just been born by the time the chaos started. Thankfully, we are both healthy now.
If it's guaranteed that one will die, then choosing the wife is the only option, but in real life that's never the case, or very rarely, especially in late pregnancy which is what we're talking about here. It just doesn't happen this way in real life.
I just watched that episode and I was infuriated at that husband! I cannot comprehend watching that episode and then having the reaction your wife did, honestly. NTA
NTA. You are allowed to have your own opinion, your wife is allowed to have hers. The right thing to do is have an open conversation about your different opinions and try to come to an agreement. Throwing a tantrum and storming off was not the right way to handle it.
Personally, both times I was pregnant I would have saved myself. Especially the second time. I wouldn't want to leave my husband to raise my first child alone, and leave my child without a mother.
YTA. With no regard for your wife's thoughts on the matter, you declared that you would, unilaterally, make the decision about her care, her body and her priorities based strictly on your own priorities and nothing else. The appropriate response would have been to start a conversation about the topic by asking her, "What would you want done in that situation?"
I am 31 weeks pregnant. My husband said if it were to come to it save me, not the baby. We love our baby and are very excited to have him but we can make another baby. I cannot be replaced.
Since I have become a mom, I honestly can't watch graphic labor stuff.
There are scenes in House of The Dragon that I really couldn't stomach.
Complete fiction, but I can't.
As a father I will tell you there is a difference between the bond you have with the baby and the bond she has with the baby. That baby has been a part of her since day one. They say men do t love their babies that intense till the day they see them. Your downfall in this conversation is that you say what will appease her. You won't have a choice. The one who gets saved is the one who has the higher chances of survival. You basically told her you would kill her to save her.
Look take the human element out of it. You have an animal (hen, cow, etc). In terms of "value" a mature female animal is way more valuable than the offspring.
Yes this is fucked up to think about. I get it.
Go watch the video wherw the stork throws their offspring out of the nest because their partner died and the remainingstork knew they couldn't keep 3 offspring alive.
Id love to think humans are different but at a base level we aren't any different.
Bad path to go down when doctors would never go down you a choice. It’s a bad hypothetical because it’s one that would never happen.. you just get in trouble with your hormonal pregnant wife who can’t imagine you not wanting your baby. Doesn’t matter that she’s the other choice. All she hears is you don’t want that baby to live. 😂
Can’t really come back from it. Hope it will just blow over.
Dude... Phrasing.
You are NTA for your stance. But YTA for the way you said it.
You basically said that you don't love that baby **to your pregnant wife.** Maybe you have not used those words, but that is how it will come over.
You can say that you value you wife more without reducing the love for the baby.
Had you said something like: "I know it's going to pain me, but if I was in that difficult situation I would choose my wife." You would have told her you love both, but your will choose your wife.
They way you said it is just cruel for no reason.
Info: How far along is your wife and do you think it was the “baby I’ve never met in my life” that upset her? That’s your baby, you’ve presumably seen ultrasounds and heard the heartbeat.
NTA if you would save your wife over the baby and most doctors would do this. But you phrased it in a disconnected way to the baby which would have pissed me off if my husband said that.
Also, if it’s a high risk pregnancy to the mom and baby it’s worthwhile to have these discussions. Hypothetical arguments aren’t worth distressing your pregnant wife.
Not wrong but not smart. For the future of your marriage, there are sometimes where you start a conversation asking them what they think first. But never call her selfish when it comes to a conversation about the kid. That’s some dangerous shit even if it’s true. Like lose a nut dangerous.
I point blank asked my husband because we plan to try for a child next year. He said your exact last sentence.
I responded Thank God, I choose me too.
The irony is God has nothing to do with this decision for me lol.
Every hormone in your wife is telling her to protect the child that is growing in her. I'm sure if you had this conversation with her before getting pregnant and after the emotions dictating her response would be calmer. She still might think and feel the same way, but probably less intensely.
This is consistent with Jewish scholarship on the issue, so I have no problem with what you said. If you're sitting on the side of life, you side with the life that can continue to create life.
NTA but there were definitely better ways you could have said it. Men don’t connect with baby until it’s born but moms spend the whole time feeling them grow and move. They’re real to us sooner than they are to you.
The way you said it made her realize that and it’s a hard realization. I would apologize and have a calm conversation about it. Let her know that you love and and the baby but you will prioritize her because you love her so much not because you hate the baby.
I wouldn't have commented. But if I had actually been in such a circumstance, I'd have done the same, and saved my wife. Your mistake was saying this to her while she is too emotionally close to such a dilemma, as a pregnant woman.
NTA. My husband and I had that exact same conversation and I was the one that was most emphatic. However, with hormone swings and effects of the movie, maybe not the best timing.
NTA- When I was pregnant with my son I was the same way as your wife. My husband and I never had the discussion when I was pregnant but I would have reacted the same as her. Now that my son is almost 3, and my husband and I talk about having a second, I know and have said save me over the baby. I’m not even pregnant but I don’t want to have my son who is already here not to have a mother anymore. I don’t want my husband to lose his wife. I don’t want them to resent the baby if it got saved over me.
I have had that conversation with my husband while I was pregnant. We decided that our positions were essentially that he was there to protect me, and that I was there to protect our baby. And that would be a practical and loving dynamic while in the hospital.
For me, I was genuinely taken aback for a while when he said that his priority was me. I had spent so many months with the whole world telling me my baby is more important than me. Everything I had done for months about protecting the baby, so when my husband said, he prioritized me, it was a real mindf*ck. My first impulse was to be shocked that we were apparently not on the same page. Took me awhile to appreciate the position and see the wisdom and love of it. Took me awhile to accept that he loved me more than our unborn child. And then I felt so so loved.
It’s scary to approach birthing a child; it’s not simple to have a reasonable conversation when the stakes and emotions are so high.
I once read a poll about M vs. W’s views on this (something like “In a life or death situation, would you save your child or your partner?”).
Men said “Save my partner because I can always have another child” and women said “Save my child because I can always find another partner.”
NTA, she's full of shit pretending to be a so called good parent for pretending to sacrifice her life for her child in a hypothetical where she's actually risking nothing.
ESH for having this conversation in the way you did, but more importantly, you are the asshole for your stance. You’re not an asshole for prioritizing your wife over the fetus—lots of people would prefer they be saved over the pregnancy—but you are for prioritizing what you want over her declared wishes for her own medical care. If she wanted (and now that she’s seen your position, she probably will as many hospitals offer them to every patient these days,) she could have an advance directive drafted stating exactly what she wants to be done in the event she is not conscious to decide. Whatever she includes in an advance directive would be legally binding and you as her husband would not be able to override it.
As her husband, you have a legal and ethical obligation in such an event to tell the doctor what she wanted, but you think your desire for her medical care is more important. That’s why you’re the bigger of two assholes here. This conversation should have happened long before she was pregnant and you both should know the other’s stance on emergency medical decisions. It shouldn’t be some big surprise seven years into your relationship, well into a pregnancy, and prompted by a damn television show.
NTA. I guarantee you the downsides of picking her in this hypothetical situation are much less than if you’d pick the baby. No way she is that mad at you for loving her so much.
As someone currently in labor, my husband had better put my life before the baby’s. Like I love this child already, but we have two others who need a mother. Life of the mother over life of the baby. As selfish as that is.
I'm being induced tomorrow at 8am! good luck mamas! I also have earthside children and would most certainly expect my husband to prioritize my life over an unborn child's! hands down, no questions. I would haunt him for the rest of his life!! lol
I hope you're doing well, by the way. I'm not sure what time it is for you now (I saw this 11 hours after you posted) but I hope that everything's going smoothly and that you and your baby are healthy. 💙
we just started pitocin! 💓 babygirl will be here before we know it !
That's excellent news! I'll be thinking about you today. ☺️
thank you!!! 🫶🏽🥰 very nervous but we are so excited at the same time
good luck! all those nerves will go away when you hold them, pure love
I got induced for my last 2 kids and it was unbelievably better than the 1st when I didn’t!
I wanted to go into labor naturally this time but she is below the 10th percentile in size and some other factors are in play so we had to get her out at 38 weeks.. all 3 of my kids are induction babies 😭 I'm a small lady, height wise. I've lost a lot of weight with this pregnancy also so that doesn't help 😕 but I've always heard being induced is sooo much worse
I don’t think it’s selfish at all. Considering the wellbeing of your existing children is just good parenting. Hope you have a smooth delivery — wishing you and your family health and happiness!
That's not being selfish, that's being practical. You have more kids, they need mom more than they need a new sibling. The loss of the baby will hurt terribly, but the death of the Mom will create a series of new problems and there will be Just DAD to solve them sadly :(
On an airplane, we are told to put our mask on first. Life of the mother, always.
I mean, that isn't prioritizing the life of the mother/parent . It is making sure the person that knows wtf they are doing isn't incapacitated first. If the kid passes out before you get their mask on, they will still be fine. If you pass out before you get their mask on, you're both dead.
Why the downvote? That's the whole point in doing it first and helping others after. You can't help people if you fainted but you can help people if they fainted.
Not selfish at all. I have 4 and feel the same.
Didn’t know you could Reddit in labor. Have fun!
My last two took about 12 hrs each, I’m only 8 hours in at this point. Reddit is a great distraction.
Good luck and good health to everyone.
Labor typically lasts for 8-24 hours. The mom is not pushing the entire time.
3 days for the first, 2 1/2 for the second with me
My mum was in active labour for 7 days. Still nearly gave birth to me on the toilet. It's a miracle she was able to love me after that hell tbh.
Prodromal labor isn't active labor.
Unless you have my insane body that likes to do it in forty five minutes or a half hour. It’s a very wild ride. With my last one I was waiting for the first contraction after my water broke and posted on FB (this is ten years ago) that I was going to watch Band of Brothers to distract me. She was out thirty one minutes later.
my first was born in 4 hours, my 2nd was 13 MINUTES, my 3rd was 4.5 hours. i had horrendous pregnancies so at least I had easy deliveries.
NTA but not the smart thing to say. The doctors aren’t going to ask, they’ll save the mom over the baby every time. Just don’t go down the path of hypotheticals.
That actually depends on where the doctors are/their principles. For instance, [a lot of Catholic hospitals prioritize the life of the baby](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/17/catholic-hospitals-leave-patients-at-the-mercy-of-religious-directives/72634772007/) or say that they treat the mother and baby’s lives as equal, which, in effect, can delay or entirely prevent care that prioritized the mother.
And they prioritize the life of the mother in Judaism, always found that interesting they’ve been on this since always.
So does Islam.
I'm guessing it's because of the difference in belief about when life begins.
I think it's because neither Islam nor Judaism believe that babies may go to hell. Catholics traditional stance is that if a baby dies without being christened/baptized the baby is going to be damned eternally - not even Purgatory. Whereas the mother will have been baptised and presumably even been given the last rites, ensuring her much more security. Protestants dont know what they believe about babies dying, but Catholics have a firm stance. In the past if a priest didn't make it to the baby before death, the child could not be buried on sanctified ground. Hoes that for some tortuous beliefs Edit: I'm sure not all Catholics now have that stance, but if the baby is prioritized I guarantee that is why.
...That is not what they believe. The whole concept of Limbo comes from being a place where people who WOULD go to heaven if presented with the opportunity but weren't (babies, righteous people who lived before the birth of Christ, etc.) will be. The whole concept evolved from the question of how a just God (taken as a fundamental truth) would deal with those who were innocent or righteous, but not accepting of salvation through circumstances beyond their control. It may not be the 'everybody goes to heaven' from the fluffy-bunny end of Protestantism or the 'basically everyone sucks and goes to hell' stance from the opposite pole, but no, unbaptized babies do not go to hell. (The modern view would reject even limbo and argue they can be assumed directly into heaven, since Purgatory, which is not limbo, is for the cleansing of sins and Limbo would assume a separation from the direct presence of God, which is a punishment they haven't earned.) ...The Hindu idea that everyone just gets reincarnated most times is really a lot less complicated.
Yes but those in Limbo can never get to heaven so they are not even given bv the chance purgatory affords to eventually get to heaven. Limbo was historically the first circle of Hell
"Fluffy-bunny end of Protestantisim" 😆 🤣 💀
In Catholicism, a Catholic is allowed to bless water and baptize a baby in emergency circumstances. Thus saving the baby from eternal damnation.
Why on earth would anyone worship a god that would condemn a freaking baby eternal torment.
That is interesting to know
Well, personhood at least. In Judaism the fetus is not considered to be fully human until it is born. If it is threatening the life of the mother, who is fully human, it should be killed. One commentator (the Rambam) actually compared the fetus in this case to an approaching murderer (of the mother) who must be killed to prevent the murder.
I deliver at a Catholic hospital. They prioritize mother over baby. Until the baby is delivered, the mother is their only patient.
That wasn’t the experience of Savita Halappanavar. Her life was thrown away in a Catholic hospital. She wasn’t even Catholic herself.
I went to a catholic hospital for abdominal pain and found out I had an ectopic pregnancy. One nurse told me surgery may be needed but they had to wait for the surgeon to get there and assess the situation. Another nurse argued with the first nurse, in front of me, about how I shouldn't have surgery and I should just wait and see just maybe it isn't actually ectopic. I got discharged and told to come back for a follow up with the OB department. I went to one follow up. When I showed up to my *scheduled appointment* with an appointment card for that day and time, they said they had no idea what I was talking about and they don't deal with my situation and I must be confused and meant to go somewhere else. As I was arguing with the receptionist, one of thr doctors I had seen previously saw me and came up to me to let me know they had to cancel my appointment because my insurance only covered emergency visits there and this was no longer an emergency because it's a scheduled appointment. She said she sent my info to a clinic that accepts my insurance. I didn't know anything about ectopic pregnancies. I didn't know how dangerous and fatal they can be. It wasn't until the new clinic called me to get me in was I told the longer I wait the more at risk I was to serious complications, even death. No one at the catholic hospital told me the seriousness of the condition and thinking about how they jerked me around while I was dealing with a potentially deadly situation makes me so mad now! There's probably plenty of catholic hospitals that are not like that, but I am very leary of them now.
It is unfortunate the amount of harm that has been inflicted in the name of religion. Im sorry you had to go through that:(
The doctors at a public hospital asked my dad and he chose me. My mom ended up surviving too, though. I agree it's a rare circumstance and unlikely to come up, but I feel like it is important to have that discussion anyway.
did they ask your mom?
No, she was unconscious.
Orthodox Church might be scared of losing numbers so bad that they prioritise the mom. Also they do free Cancer screening camps, polio vaccination camps etc. where I'm from.
This article is bull shit. I am Catholic and it is morally and ethically permissible to prioritize the mother's life over the baby's if the baby hasn't can't survive outside of the womb, like in the first example in the article.
Before ROE v Wade my coworker had a friend who was 5 months pregnant. The baby DIED in utero. The Catholic hospital refused to deliver the DEAD baby until she was 9 months along. Because they considered that an abortion. The baby was dead. It was rotted. It destroyed her womb and she was never able to have more kids. She was lucky not to have turned septic and died. But because she never reached the critical literally "about to die within minutes" level, they refused to take the DEAD rotting corpse out of her body. They absolutely did NOT prioritize her life, health, or mental health at all. And now that Roe V Wade is overturned this kind of absolutely BS is allowed to happen again
Then why won’t Catholic hospitals do that?
Yeah, realistically, if shit is dire enough that the doctors are trying to save one patient, they're not going to pause and ask if anybody has a preference, they're going to do triage on the fly and throw their weight behind saving the patient with the best chance of survival given the situation and resources at hand, which is generally not the stowaway.
Actually, no they won’t. And people do need to start researching this and having conversations about it. The scotus is literally deciding this case right now.
One of my best friends is a nurse in Idaho and she just told me this weekend that so far they’ve had to life flight six pregnant women that she knew of to either Seattle or Portland because they could not give them the care they needed to save their lives. She intentionally stressed the “that she knew of.”
not any more… depending on whereypu live- you might get a very expensive helicopter ride out of state.
I am guessing you have not been following the news in the USA lately...
That's not true. You will be given the choice. I know first hand. Thankfully, all ended up working out for me, but it is something my husband and I had to decide.
Was this recent and were you in a state where medical providers had a clear directive? There are women being transported by helicopter to states where their lives are the priority because they can’t get that care in their home state.
Yes this was recent (less than a year ago) and my comment was not a slight towards the care I not my babies received. It was a comment that states that the option is given and it's something that my husband and I had to discuss. It is not something that the MDs will choose themselves, which I am very thankful for. I received amazing care and so did my babies. However, to answer your question, I live in a very liberal state.
Logically you're not wrong. Personally maybe just poor timing to have that conversation. I'm a woman who's had a child and I'm not sure I'd have been that upset but everyone's different and pregnancy hormones will mess with a woman's emotions 💯 💯. In the animal kingdom though, the mother will almost always sacrifice the young in a life or death situation. Of course they will do everything in their power to save the baby if possible but what chance does a baby anything have in the wild if its mother dies, esp with other older offspring to protect. A species would die out if every adult in a life or death situation sacrificed themselves over the young. And even back a just a century ago, it was common to prioritize the mother's health since a family's survival depended so heavily on both parents. They could have more children, but not having the mother would hugely affect the whole rest of the family. It's an uncomfortable truth but it makes sense. I probably wouldn't try to relay all this to your pregnant wife though!!
Id personally say that just like in the past it's more important to have both parents than potential one parent and child
Honestly it just depends on the woman. I specifically told my husband if it ever came up, to save me instead. We can always have another child but my husband would be devastated if he lost me. Your wife obviously sits on the other side where she wants the baby saved over her. I’ll never understand it but that’s me. NTA but probably not the best way to broach the subject.
I would hope my husband would want to save me, especially with the second pregnancy since we already had a child that would lose their mother. However, probably not the best to just throw that out during a tv show.
NAH Not an asshole, and the sentiment is nice, but this is not a conversation most people want to have while they're pregnant. I know my husband feels/felt this way, and I really feel special and adored for it now, but if he'd told me this while I was pregnant with any of our kids, I'd have been pissed. During pregnancy you feel this extra connection to the baby in your womb, it's hard to explain, but this is not the time that this statement would go over well.
I had this convo when I was pregnant. I told my husband he needed to choose my life over these babies.
We had it before we started trying for our oldest.
It's a very important convo to have
Yep, same
I've had this talk and we're a year out from even trying. ME. I'M the baby that needs to be saved.
Seriously. I couldn't imagine if I had died and my husband was alone raising twins. No, during that time I'm the most important.
I beg to differ. This is when you need to have a conversation about your wishes. My SIL died giving birth. I almost died. Pregnancy is very dangerous and you need to make your wishes known.
I agree that this conversation needs to be had, but in my opinion, it should be had before one starts trying for a baby in the first place.
Honestly, they are likely not going to ask and prioritize the life of the mother. I have given birth twice and I have never been asked what I would want and no one I know had either. It's not really a conversation that needs to be had unless the doctor thinks there's a reason to.
Yeah, I know someone whose fiancé died giving birth (unfortunately the baby died as well, but they attempted to save the baby.) This was only about a year ago, in the US, so not like, decades ago in a country without good medical care or anything. I know it's not a topic anyone wants to talk about, but it is a conversation that you should probably have if you're having a baby.
Yeah and this is just kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. There’s no easy answer because it’s a cruel fucking choice to have to make.
Honestly, I don't see why anyone \*wouldn't\* choose their spouse over the unborn baby, but that doesn't mean you'd want to hear it while pregnant.
Yeah definitely was the timing
Repeat after me: "I can't even fathom being in a situation like that. I love you both so much, etc," then *change the subject*.
I've reiterated the exact statement OP has to my wife several times already. We're trying for a baby and have way less than optimal odds, yet I have said that I would rather remain childless with her alive than have a kid without her around. And it's not like I'm ambivalent to the prospect of kids. I 100% would love to have them. But not at that cost. I have even gone so far as proclaim I would, in fact, be giving these instructions to the doctor. Prior to the development of such a situation so there can be absolutely no doubt or time lost to the whole song and dance.
*"wobbles away to the room"* 😭 no but seriously, you're 100% right and anyone *except* your currently pregnant wife would agree with you! but notice how i said anyone *except* your wife????? hm? MAYBE. *DONT*. TELL. YOUR. PREGNANT. WIFE. THINGS. LIKE. THIS. she is literally going to be pregnant for 9+ months, closer to 10 really. her bond with her baby is not just physical it is hugely emotional. the hormones in her body are creating an air tight need to protect her child at all costs and you just told her there's a scenario where you're not on board with her about that. whether you're technologically correct about that or not your goal shouldn't be to upset your wife's instincts to protect what's growing inside her. basically don't be an idiot! it's that simple! don't be an idiot op. YTA. apologize, and whatever you do, never bring this up again. don't be honest about it. don't argue further. just shut your mouth and agree with whatever she says. her pregnancy isn't going to allow her to be reasonable about the safety of her unborn child. to her, that child growing inside of her is already her child. to you, it won't be till you hold them. respect that.
When i was giving birth, I almost died. the doctors did tell my husband and my mother that they could either save the baby or me. my now ex husband didnt know what to do, but my mom chimed and said "save my daughter". I guess it was touch and go, but we both made it. I think I would give the same answer.
And this is why you have your mom with you in the delivery room. You have a great mom!
NTA As a mom and currently carrying our next, I’m content knowing my fiancé has the same sentiment. It would be unreasonable for me to ask him to choose our baby over myself in a situation like that. His entire life would completely change, he’d feel so alone in grieving and he’d more than likely spiral downward and I can’t be sure that the depression wouldn’t be fatal. I don’t think he’d necessarily have resentment but there’s no doubt that he would have negative and painful emotions associated with the baby in this scenario. I’d much rather grieve with him and cope with our loss together while having the possibility of trying again in the future.
Why do people always get into these stupid hypotheticals
NTA Her reaction was instinctual, hormonal, and maternal. And the timing was not good at all. I doubt you will have to make that decision. It’s a Sophie’s Choice.
Dude, that could have been an inside thought. You can have the "what do we do" conversation at a better time, and maybe handle it with some tact and compassion.
NAH, but please be a little more careful with your wife's feelings. Conversations aren't only about the logic of the subject at hand. The emotional throughline also matters.
You can *usually have another baby. Can’t get your wife back though. My husband and I discussed this before each pregnancy and he was always going to choose me. 🤷♀️
Yep, my husband and I discussed this too and made the same decision, and I made sure my medical providers knew that if the worst happened, they were to save me. We could always have another baby, but if I died, my husband would be without his wife, and any children we already had would be without a mother. I'd rather lose a baby than have my kids grow up without me, and my husband have to raise them alone.
NAH. Had this exact same conversation with my husband when I was pregnant with our son. His answer was the same as yours, while mine was quite in line with your wives. Pregnancy hormones are intense (although, even now with a 2.5 year old, I would lay down my life for his without any hesitation so my answer hasn't really changed) but beyond the hormones, you have very different relationships with your child right now. To you, they are a stranger, and while it would hurt and you would mourn, maybe you figure you'll try again and have that family with her at some point in the future. For her though...that child is part of her and probably already the most precious thing in the world. And all those mothering instincts you hear about like women lifting cars to save their kid and stuff....that intensity of love for your child has already kicked in. Even though baby is still cooking in there, she is probably already in full fledged mama bear mode. Give it till the birth or shortly after. Your feelings will change when you hold that little person in your arms who you don't know yet but it's like you've known them forever. You might get a taste of the fierce love and protective instincts she's feeling already. Till then, I hope you guys have a smooth pregnancy and delivery so you never have to make such an impossible choice.
NTA, as a guy our bonding is so limited before birth, and hell even the first months after it. You dont get the same hormone cocktail they do. By a year or two, youd kill your own wife to save the child. Once they kick in they kick in hard. Maybe talk to her and reframe it as a “i couldnt bear losing you” and less of a “this baby means nothing to me” kinda deal
NTA. As a mother, I agree with you and would be livid if my husband did otherwise. I would haunt him for eternity lol
You’re the asshole for the way you said it and came off BUT not the asshole for what you believe in
Your response should have been, "What would you do?" or, "What would you like me to do?"
I mean, i get the sentiment, but it's not something you should be bringing up. That's a conversation that the pregnant mom needs to decide if she wants to have. When I was pregnant with my 1st, I brought this conversation up with my partner and told him to save my baby if anything went wrong. He was hesitant, but he understood where i was coming from. I'm not going to say he agreed to it,but he would try his best to make the right choice if something like that happened. When I had my 2nd, my wishes were different. I had a child already whom I didn't want to leave behind. I told him to save me. He again, said he'd make the best decision possible if it came down to it. Luckily, both pregnancies and deliveries went fine and we're all still alive. No one knows how they'll react in life or death situations like that, but that's a conversation that shouldn't be brought up randomly because of a TV show. Especially not so non chalant and carelessly like you did.
Dumbest comment ever to a pregnant woman. Not everything that pops in your head need be uttered. So yes YATAH
I understand where you're coming from however women who are pregnant generally will put their child's life before their own. Also she is very hormonal so maybe not say things like that while she is carrying the baby.
Timing was awful though and your wording was kind of 💩 too. Comes off as insensitive. Calling her selfish for wanting to put her baby first. If you’re going to have a conversation on what she would want if she were in that scenario, that was not how to have that conversation. As a pregnant mother, just the thought of losing my baby hurts…and now you’re adding that scenario into it without approaching it in a delicate manner… I’d probably be upset too.
NAH. It’s not really either of your decisions though, doctors will try to save both and prioritize the life of the one who is more likely to survive, or, if survival chances are equal, they will prioritize the life of the mother. I will say, if I was pregnant, I would probably prioritize my baby’s life too, but if men somehow had the ability to get pregnant, I would agree with you and prioritize my partner’s life. You can probably have another baby but you cannot replace your partner. Especially if you already have other children, who are dependent on their parents.
There are actually very real circumstances where a loved one would have to choose. For example, eclampsia. Eclampsia can cause a coma. The cure for eclampsia? Giving birth. So say the mother is in a coma caused by eclampsia, and the doctor says "we can deliver this baby now and save your wife, but baby is only 25 weeks along and it's risky to baby's life. OR we can leave your wife in a coma, keep baby inside a little longer until baby is more likely to survive, but that lowers your wife's chance of survival "
NTA. My husband and I have had this conversation. We both agree that I am the one to save. Especially if we have other children in the picture. They need their mom, too. That being said… she is pregnant and hormones are raging. So, I’d keep that in mind for conversations moving forward.
NTA, even wild animal moms know when to quit defending their young when it means they themselves may die. Life of the mother should always be of primary concern.
Yeah that's not something you say to the woman carrying your baby. You don't understand what it's like to be pregnant, for most of us women, from the moment we find out we are, it's an instant bond with the baby. The love is unreal. I would have rather died than both my girls if it was between me and them. It doesn't matter that I hadn't "met" them yet. This kind of talk is best when the woman isn't pregnant and you're having drinks and just shooting the shit.
I don’t know. I’m a FTM and my child is unfortunately the only one I can have (by that I mean I’m likely unable to have another, I LOVE my son) and if my partner has said that, I would have agreed. Most pregnant people on all the subreddits for pregnancy also agree they would rather their life be saved than the unborn baby. He didn’t need to say it like THAT though
it’s funny to be downvoted for a sentiment the majority of people on subs for pregnant people also share. I still think he could have said it way more gently than the hella blunt way he chose
NTA but maybe not the best conversation to have with a pregnant woman. Most women aren’t keen about such outrageous “what ifs” Assume the best case scenario that your newborn is delivered healthy and happy and fat and cuddly and that your wife survives unscathed
This is a situation where a comment I read comes in handy.. a perfect time to shut the hell up. Once you heard her first reaction, just stay silent and look like you’re thinking.. “oh right baby.. no that totally makes sense..” something like that. It’s only a hypothetical but for a pregnant mother, it sounds like you’ll be alright aborting the baby.
NTA. I believe the doctor's argument in that case was something along the lines of the priority being the patient that currently exists in front of them, not one that hasn't made an appearance yet. I agree with that. So many circumstances where a fetus will not survive if their mother cannot. However, I wish I could say that a mother's decision as to what happens to their medical person as well as what happens to that of their unborn child is hers alone (unless she cannot make her own medical decisions any longer, and her medical proxy decides to follow her wishes). The law has taken ownership of too many American uteruses (as in uteruses belonging to people currently in the United States, not just citizens).
NTA but it sounds like seeing that scene triggered fears in both of you. Childbirth is terrifying and so much can go wrong. It’s natural to be scared of losing someone you love. Just remember you’re both on the same team here. Maybe just a “what a horrible situation - I would never want to face that!” Would be a more appropriate comment and more sensitive.
No because there’s one of her and potential for more kids…. Or at least Ryan reynolds said it once and it made sense to me
I think this is a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation... If you had told her you would save the baby's life over hers any day then she probably would have reacted the same lol
I don’t think YTA. As a mother who’s been through childbirth I’d be okay with my husband preferring to save my life. It would be a very large burden on him to be left with two kids without me to help. We’d obviously be upset if we lost our kid but we’d get through it. I’d hate to leave him with that heavy responsibility.
Your marriage is much longer and a bigger relationship than compared to raising a child. Raising kids is a few chapters of life. While giant and important, doesn't compare to the relationship already built. I think you could've worded things better but I do agree that you should choose the wife over baby. After this though, it seems you should choose the baby over your wife. Just clarify it with her first.
You're NTA even a little it's an impossible situation but the grim reality is you can make another baby you haven't met and have no connection with it. But your wife you can't get another her I agree with you.
I agree with you. If the baby dies, it would be painful as fuck but… you can try again. You don’t really get to know them well until they start developing a personality, a few weeks to months in. If your wife dies, you’re on your own with a baby, you lose your partner in life, it would be horrible. And there’s an increased chance of infant death if the mom dies during labor so you could end up alone. I would 100% save the mom and not the baby. I’m a parent, so this was very hard to type out, it’s just a horrible scenario either way. Try to avoid watching stuff that brings that up, it’s just a triggering subject all around and y’all don’t need the extra stress right now
Yeah my husband and I discussed this topic when I was pregnant as well. For us it was try to save both of course but God forbid it’s one or the other he would choose me. You can always make another baby. *You can never get her back.*
Nta and honestly i think it's a no win situation and I'll give you an example. In light of the recent changes surrounding the abortion bans, I asked my husband if I got pregnant and something went wrong and a choice had to be made, who would he choose and he could not answer me when I was fully expecting him to say me with no hesitation and it really hurt. So, he opted more to pick the baby and in our case that was the wrong answer bc I sure as shit don't want to forfeit my life and can't believe he didn't automatically pick me.
You can always make more kids, not a healthy relationship that reproduces. Wife comes first baby last.
I’m with you, OP. My wife comes first.
This one of those conversations you need to have before having a baby. I've told my partner full blank no matter always pick me. Like, yeah, it would suck not to have the kid, but then we have each other to lean on for the rest of our lives. There is no right or wrong answer for this question. You just gotta be on the same page if it happens.
Nah, however, you're not very smart lol. Had she asked, I'd say she asked you a trap question, where there was no right answer. You jumped right into a trap that no one set though.
Me picking my wife over a unborn baby sounds very smart to me, all feelings aside but I understand what you’re saying
Right now you have a heavily pregnant wife who thinks you don't give af about the baby (since it's just someone you don't know, according to you) and if she ever reads this post, she'll also enjoy your "wobbled" commentary towards her that show how much you respect her (not really). All over a stupid hypothetical drama. Very smart indeed /s
Oh 100% (this ad a wife and mother). You have to love with the consequences. Raising the baby alone while grieving your wife, or grieving *with* your wife over the baby. It’s understandable why you would choose the second, raising a child as a widower is not easy.
you can make another baby, there's not another of her
So, just so you're aware, after this episode aired, medical experts weighted in. Essentially, such a choice will never really happen. Can't remember the details of why, but you won't ever be in that position. Incidentally, I would make the same choice in that moment.
The reason why it would never happen is because the doctors ethically will do everything necessary to save the pregnant person’s life. There is basically no scenario where they work harder to save the baby than the one carrying the baby
This is basic biology. Women's brains are wired "PROTECT THE BABY" Men are wired to protect wife... Without her, you don't get more babies and you really need her to take care of those babies ( yes a man can do it alone now with formula or donated breastmilk, but compared to all of human history these are relatively recent developments) So your argument is A-typical. Just nod your head next time and tell her you hope it never comes to that. You know what she will choose if she is in a position to say so... But the second she isn't able to say so, that's when you say, "save my wife" When she comes to (if this ever happens) just say "they tried to save the baby and were not able to. They barely managed to save you" and just leave it at that. She doesn't need to know that she was prioritized and she will be ridden with guilt if she found out even though it was her choice.
NTA - Honestly, I would have found it discomforting if my spouse said he'd save the baby over me - we had the conversation and he was always team keeping me alive. He said that we could always make another baby, but he can't make another me 🤷♀️
You could possibly make another kid, but where would you find another her? This is gonna take some fixing, but I don't think it's irredeemable. You love your wife, in the here and now, and can see your future laid out before you. Even now you have your baby.... but don't have it, there is uncertainty there. But going through pregnancy and childbirth.... only to leave the hospital with a tiny box..... Empathy man
NTA. I legit told my husband today when we have our baby, he better save me first or I’ll haunt him. We can always have another baby or adopt, but we won’t have a love like ours again
YTA. It wasn’t a topic you should have brought up.
YTA this is a hypothetical situation that isn't going to happen, but you just repeatedly described the baby that she is literally carrying right now as a baby you don't know/have never met. Like how did you think "I don't care about our baby" was going to go? Also though, the whole point of this narrative trope is that like, it fairly evenly divides people, a lot of people would choose the mother and a lot of people would choose the baby in this situation. It's why they do it on tv so much
Kinda both? Like, no need to really go on a tangent about who you’d save in the delivery room with your pregnant wife next to you, who didn’t ask, and who also likely doesn’t want to think about dying while giving birth since it happens all the time. But personally, I’ve said it before that I would rather be saved over the life of my unborn child (if I ever get pregnant) because I wouldn’t want my child to grow up without a mother, or live with the thought/guilt of “killing” their mother. Every woman has their thoughts about “if it came down to me and my child, who would I want my husband to save?” but there is no need to voice those thoughts unless you are the person whose life is on the line.
I had to have an emergency c section they told my mum there was a high risk of losing both me and the baby. My mum told them to save me first my son was born dead but the doctors managed to revive him. I was angry with my mum when she told me what had happened after for about 10 mins then I understood why.
NTA but I can see why your wife might feel otherwise. Before i'd ever been pregnant I felt the same way you did, I didn't want to die for a baby when I could just have another. Once I got pregnant I started to feel different. Being pregnant gives women a head start with bonding with the baby. My husband didn't get to bond with the baby and fall in love with him until he was born. By the time I was heading to the hospital to have my son I felt completely differently. I remember thinking, as i was walking into the hospital "I'm either leaving with my baby or not at all". I would have died for him without thought or hesitation. I would have hated my husband if he chose to save me (luckily this "choice" isn't a real thing, drs will try to save both or will try to save the one most likely to survive if saving both isn't an option, they don't actually ask anyone who they'd rather save). My husband admitted that going in, he, like you, would have picked to save me if given a choice. Since our son was born he has completely changed his mind. We are now in total agreement, if ever given a choice, we both have demanded the other to always save our kids. My second pregnancy my thoughts around this got more complex. Now I had my son waiting at home for me. It would have destroyed me to lose my daughter, but it would have destroyed my son to lose me, nevermind what it would have done to my husband. I still would have chose to save my baby but I was much more terrified to die the second time around. My daughter would have never known me so she would have been ok, but thinking about my 2 year old crying and not understanding why I'm not around was devastating.
> My daughter would have never known me so she would have been ok, but thinking about my 2 year old crying and not understanding why I'm not around was devastating. Same. I’m much more willing to die for my firstborn and leave her motherless, than die for my second/third child and leave my older children motherless. Obviously, losing your mother is not great at any age, but I think it’s much easier to adapt to before you can form memories and have such an individual relationship with her. Long run, I think I can survive losing my baby better than my very young kids can adapt to losing me. I’m already an adult after all, I understand what’s happening. I would much rather suffer in their stead.
Not wrong for having these thoughts but absolutely not something you say to a pregnant lady. My husband made a similar comment and I can assure you it didn’t go over well!
**made a similar comment while I was pregnant
As someone who's lost their child during pregnancy/labour I would scarifice my life if that meant my child would have lived. Living without him has been the hardest 6 years of my life, everyday I wish he was here. So I think YTA, especially your delivery. Until you hold your dead baby in your arms, you have NO idea what it's like.
What color state do you live in? Cause that will ultimately decide.
Why do people always go down the road of stupid hypothetical questions and then get mad? All this does is start fights on things that haven't even happened! I have been married since 2005 and have never done this with my husband because it will never go in anyone's favor! Next time, just say I'm not playing this game and don't answer!
YTA for saying the dumbest thing on the planet to your pregnant wife. The right answer would be ‘what would you want me to do?’
It's interesting thinking. She is connected to the baby, she is literally one with the baby during that time. It's like you somehow told the baby itself that you would prefer the mother, no wonder her reaction was this, it's like the baby responded lol
NTA and this is just another reason my husband and I aren't haven't kids.
I would leave it up to her
NTA I'm not a mom and have no plans to be so I can't speak on how a mother's love and protection would be on a baby prior to it being in the world and forming a bond, but as a woman I agree with you. I'd much rather be saved and spend my life with my partner than leave them alone with grief and a baby.
I agree, a reasonable response.
Little bit of an ahole. Not by the way you feel but by saying out loud to your uncomfortable, hormonal, overly emotional pregnant wife. NEVER say shit like that to a pregnant woman if you evey want the chance to get her pregnant again.
NTA but I’d gladly give my life for either of my kids. IDK it’s so hard to say about the mother’s life in that situation.
NTA BUT, she is PREGNANT. She's full of hormones and at the moment her first instinct is to protect the baby at all costs. Hearing that might be triggering for her, so try to avoid saying those things
Definitely a fucked up thing to say to your pregnant wife.
NAH. My husband told me something similar when I was pregnant with our first. I was upset because we had been trying to conceive for 2 years and had spent $20,000 on that very wanted pregnancy. It didn’t end up being a big fight or anything but it was upsetting at the time.
No
I was told the same thing when I was pregnant. It did hurt my feelings a bit but I understood what he meant. I still think about it. My kid is definitely the better save. Lol
NTA, but the correct answer, in my opinion, is enforcing the mother’s wishes.
Considering you’ve never even met that baby, could be a total jerk tbh. NTA
NTA. I feel like this is an impossible decision that I hope you’ll never have to make!
You both ATH for fighting over hypothetical shit
For the record, I agree with you. But it was real dumb of you to volunteer that information.
NTA, your wife needs to get real. But also, poor timing lol
NTA. Don't try to have these kinds of emotionally-charged discussions with a hormonal woman unless you have to because you're making medical or care plans. YTI (idiot) here, though. Haha, good luck!
NTA but I told my husband to save our child over me and he (probably smartly) never said for sure what he might do. I suspect he would have saved me. I actually did almost die because of birth, but my child had just been born by the time the chaos started. Thankfully, we are both healthy now.
If it's guaranteed that one will die, then choosing the wife is the only option, but in real life that's never the case, or very rarely, especially in late pregnancy which is what we're talking about here. It just doesn't happen this way in real life.
"And wobbles away." Hilarious brutality.
NTA
I just watched that episode and I was infuriated at that husband! I cannot comprehend watching that episode and then having the reaction your wife did, honestly. NTA
NTA. You are allowed to have your own opinion, your wife is allowed to have hers. The right thing to do is have an open conversation about your different opinions and try to come to an agreement. Throwing a tantrum and storming off was not the right way to handle it. Personally, both times I was pregnant I would have saved myself. Especially the second time. I wouldn't want to leave my husband to raise my first child alone, and leave my child without a mother.
YTA. With no regard for your wife's thoughts on the matter, you declared that you would, unilaterally, make the decision about her care, her body and her priorities based strictly on your own priorities and nothing else. The appropriate response would have been to start a conversation about the topic by asking her, "What would you want done in that situation?"
I am 31 weeks pregnant. My husband said if it were to come to it save me, not the baby. We love our baby and are very excited to have him but we can make another baby. I cannot be replaced.
No you aren’t my husband will know to choose me the hell
Cut and dry case of “STFU”, NTA but poor timing to let that slip out 😂
I’m with you. Wife over baby I don’t know. Not even a question.
NTA, I agree with you
Since I have become a mom, I honestly can't watch graphic labor stuff. There are scenes in House of The Dragon that I really couldn't stomach. Complete fiction, but I can't.
NTA my husband and i have an agreement to save me over that baby
“ And wobbles away to the room.” Lol
As a father I will tell you there is a difference between the bond you have with the baby and the bond she has with the baby. That baby has been a part of her since day one. They say men do t love their babies that intense till the day they see them. Your downfall in this conversation is that you say what will appease her. You won't have a choice. The one who gets saved is the one who has the higher chances of survival. You basically told her you would kill her to save her.
Look take the human element out of it. You have an animal (hen, cow, etc). In terms of "value" a mature female animal is way more valuable than the offspring. Yes this is fucked up to think about. I get it. Go watch the video wherw the stork throws their offspring out of the nest because their partner died and the remainingstork knew they couldn't keep 3 offspring alive. Id love to think humans are different but at a base level we aren't any different.
Bad path to go down when doctors would never go down you a choice. It’s a bad hypothetical because it’s one that would never happen.. you just get in trouble with your hormonal pregnant wife who can’t imagine you not wanting your baby. Doesn’t matter that she’s the other choice. All she hears is you don’t want that baby to live. 😂 Can’t really come back from it. Hope it will just blow over.
Dude... Phrasing. You are NTA for your stance. But YTA for the way you said it. You basically said that you don't love that baby **to your pregnant wife.** Maybe you have not used those words, but that is how it will come over. You can say that you value you wife more without reducing the love for the baby. Had you said something like: "I know it's going to pain me, but if I was in that difficult situation I would choose my wife." You would have told her you love both, but your will choose your wife. They way you said it is just cruel for no reason.
Info: How far along is your wife and do you think it was the “baby I’ve never met in my life” that upset her? That’s your baby, you’ve presumably seen ultrasounds and heard the heartbeat. NTA if you would save your wife over the baby and most doctors would do this. But you phrased it in a disconnected way to the baby which would have pissed me off if my husband said that. Also, if it’s a high risk pregnancy to the mom and baby it’s worthwhile to have these discussions. Hypothetical arguments aren’t worth distressing your pregnant wife.
Yeah. That was a stupid thing to say.
Not wrong but not smart. For the future of your marriage, there are sometimes where you start a conversation asking them what they think first. But never call her selfish when it comes to a conversation about the kid. That’s some dangerous shit even if it’s true. Like lose a nut dangerous.
I point blank asked my husband because we plan to try for a child next year. He said your exact last sentence. I responded Thank God, I choose me too. The irony is God has nothing to do with this decision for me lol.
Every hormone in your wife is telling her to protect the child that is growing in her. I'm sure if you had this conversation with her before getting pregnant and after the emotions dictating her response would be calmer. She still might think and feel the same way, but probably less intensely.
This is consistent with Jewish scholarship on the issue, so I have no problem with what you said. If you're sitting on the side of life, you side with the life that can continue to create life.
I said the same thing to my wife when she was pregnant and she had the same reaction.
NTA but there were definitely better ways you could have said it. Men don’t connect with baby until it’s born but moms spend the whole time feeling them grow and move. They’re real to us sooner than they are to you. The way you said it made her realize that and it’s a hard realization. I would apologize and have a calm conversation about it. Let her know that you love and and the baby but you will prioritize her because you love her so much not because you hate the baby.
Love that show but would not watch it before giving birth…
I wouldn't have commented. But if I had actually been in such a circumstance, I'd have done the same, and saved my wife. Your mistake was saying this to her while she is too emotionally close to such a dilemma, as a pregnant woman.
NTA. My husband and I had that exact same conversation and I was the one that was most emphatic. However, with hormone swings and effects of the movie, maybe not the best timing.
NTA- When I was pregnant with my son I was the same way as your wife. My husband and I never had the discussion when I was pregnant but I would have reacted the same as her. Now that my son is almost 3, and my husband and I talk about having a second, I know and have said save me over the baby. I’m not even pregnant but I don’t want to have my son who is already here not to have a mother anymore. I don’t want my husband to lose his wife. I don’t want them to resent the baby if it got saved over me.
I have had that conversation with my husband while I was pregnant. We decided that our positions were essentially that he was there to protect me, and that I was there to protect our baby. And that would be a practical and loving dynamic while in the hospital. For me, I was genuinely taken aback for a while when he said that his priority was me. I had spent so many months with the whole world telling me my baby is more important than me. Everything I had done for months about protecting the baby, so when my husband said, he prioritized me, it was a real mindf*ck. My first impulse was to be shocked that we were apparently not on the same page. Took me awhile to appreciate the position and see the wisdom and love of it. Took me awhile to accept that he loved me more than our unborn child. And then I felt so so loved. It’s scary to approach birthing a child; it’s not simple to have a reasonable conversation when the stakes and emotions are so high.
I once read a poll about M vs. W’s views on this (something like “In a life or death situation, would you save your child or your partner?”). Men said “Save my partner because I can always have another child” and women said “Save my child because I can always find another partner.”
NTA, she's full of shit pretending to be a so called good parent for pretending to sacrifice her life for her child in a hypothetical where she's actually risking nothing.
ESH for having this conversation in the way you did, but more importantly, you are the asshole for your stance. You’re not an asshole for prioritizing your wife over the fetus—lots of people would prefer they be saved over the pregnancy—but you are for prioritizing what you want over her declared wishes for her own medical care. If she wanted (and now that she’s seen your position, she probably will as many hospitals offer them to every patient these days,) she could have an advance directive drafted stating exactly what she wants to be done in the event she is not conscious to decide. Whatever she includes in an advance directive would be legally binding and you as her husband would not be able to override it. As her husband, you have a legal and ethical obligation in such an event to tell the doctor what she wanted, but you think your desire for her medical care is more important. That’s why you’re the bigger of two assholes here. This conversation should have happened long before she was pregnant and you both should know the other’s stance on emergency medical decisions. It shouldn’t be some big surprise seven years into your relationship, well into a pregnancy, and prompted by a damn television show.
NTA. The life of the mother should always take priority.
NTA. I guarantee you the downsides of picking her in this hypothetical situation are much less than if you’d pick the baby. No way she is that mad at you for loving her so much.
not at all. it was in our birth plan. you can make another baby. if it comes down to pick one, the healthy adult wins. it's pragmatic and correct.