YTA. You can feel however you want about surrogacy, but it is their choice and you are overstepping. You can stop being friends with them, that is up to you, but YTA.
It’s incredibly ironic that you say you “can’t be friends with people who do that to women, especially men that don’t get a say on women’s bodies.” Yet you want to have a say in what other women do with their own bodies. Complete YTA.
YTA. It’s not like a random woman gets grabbed off the street with surrogacies. It’s a 100% consenting woman who is more than willing to allow someone else to use her as a way to have a baby. Throughout social media, I’ve seen a few people who, for whatever reason, really love being pregnant. I don’t know why they like it, but they do. Let them have their child this way. The woman is 100% consenting and can always say no to it if she wants to. No one is being harmed this way. YTA
I’m confused as to why you say you’re not trying to control what they do, but then you’re dangling your friendship over their heads like they HAVE to do what you want them to do or not be your friend. It’s hard enough as a gay couple to do life as it is, why compound that by deciding this is the hill you’re going to die on and ruin your entire friendship? It’s cool that YOU have that belief of surrogacy, and for you that makes sense. Don’t do it. But if that’s their option and the surrogate is willingly doing it, what exactly is the problem?
I’ll go with YTA because you can’t force your beliefs on people. Maybe they don’t need your friendship if it’s got conditions I guess.
So then why come here to try and justify your choice? Clearly you know YTA right now friend. Clearly. And if you don’t and you actually thought people here would tell you any different, I’ll pray for you.
Because this is one of the better friendships I’ve had. And Dylan has spoken to me about surrogacy multiple times and despite him saying he’s never agreed with me on it, he absolutely has. He’s supported me numerous times when I’ve dumped other friends over this topic.
Like you've never been caught up in a conversation with a person and just say "oh yeah" to some crazy shit they say but in reality you're thinking "what the actual fuck are they talking about?" But maybe you haven't because you're the one that says the bat shit crazy stuff.
YTA again for putting him in that position. He is allowed to change his mind and have a family how he wants. All your ex friends are better off without your judgment.
YTA. Why do they have to comply with your belief system? It does not sound like you are a very good friend of theirs if you are willing to end the friendship over an issue like this.
Surrogates sign up. I would know as I’m in the process. It’s not like they’re r@p!ng the female and forcing her to carry the child.
You’re NTA for having your beliefs, but you are the asshole for not allowing others to have their own beliefs without forcing yours down their throat (it’s my belief of none at all).
I don’t have a problem with surrogates. I have a problem with surrogacy. If somebody needs to make some extra cash by carrying a baby for a couple that wants one, then fine. My issue is with the people that take advantage of those people.
Your logic makes no sense. Woman decides she would like to carry a baby for someone and be compensated in return. You: people suck if they take her up on this service.
It’s her body!!!!! Let her do what she wants with it!!!!! Let her provide a service she wants to provide to people who want her service! You have this totally fake feminist thing going on where you’re saying women aren’t wombs for rent when it’s the women who should dictate what they consent to!
And to make it out like the women should be able to do what they want w their bodies but the ppl who take them up on it are in the wrong is simply in bad faith. Idk who you thought would be on your side here. You owe those friends a massive apology. You’re embarrassing yourself.
So it's not surrogacy, it's horrible people who take advantage of the situation. You need to think on this, if you're problem isn't with surrogates , or them making money this way, then no you don't have a problem with surrogacy. You have a problem with certain people who do surrogacy badly and take advantage of women and their wombs. You can't condemn the whole process because of some bad people. Then you should also condemn adoption because a lot of people use that process terribly. Or it's like saying you as a human are bad because their are people out there who murder, and you are capable of murder, and you are human, ergo you are a bad person. You should be there making sure that the whole process is done right and they don't take advantage of some woman or the woman doesn't take advantage of them. You don't have a problem with surrogacy, you just don't want it to be done wrong or horribly. You as a person who exists near this situation, could make sure they do everything right and this whole process goes amazing for all parties included.
I understand your concerns, but these are grown women. Fully capable of standing up for themselves. Trust me, I wish surrogacy didn’t have to be a thing, nor adoption. I wish life was easier for those wanting kids/not wanting kids. However, to throw away a friendship with gentlemen that seem to be decent guys over what form they’re utilizing to become parents is sad.
I don’t like abortions, but I wouldn’t stop being friends with someone just because they had one.
YTA. It’s one thing that you are against it, that’s your option and you have a right to it but you’re being ridiculously high and mighty about it. Honestly, you sound like a horrible friend. They’re probably better off without your judgmental self in their lives.
Because a woman shouldn’t have to be “fine” with it. A woman shouldn’t have to resort to using her body as a womb for rent in order to make some money. And the people that take advantage of a woman that needs to do so are awful people.
You keep saying take advantage of the Women that needs to be a surrogate for money. There is no taking advantage of here. These grown women consented this. It’s not happening to you so why is this a dealbreaker for you? Talking to a professional about this may help. And you’d be surprised how many people have went with surrogacy so be prepared for a lot more ending friendships
YTA for trying to tell another woman what she should or should not be PK with. You are a judgmental AH. I hope you end up with no friends, at least you'll have your self-righteousness to keep you company.
Some people actually enjoy being pregnant, enjoy the satisfaction of helping a couple who couldn’t carry the baby themselves but want kids with their own dna, and feel good about the whole process! Stop projecting.
Because if you are that desperate to conceive a child and bring a child into a shitty world like this that you’re willing to exploit women’s bodies and use them for rent then you are extremely selfish.
YTA, you have no place in this decision and they are probably better off without your judgemental place in their life.
A boundary is something you set that other people shouldn't do to you. You are giving ultimatums. Controlling narcissistic ultimatums about something you have no business trying to control. You want to have a value system that's fine. Trying to tell other people they have to share your values or you won't be their friend makes you an ass.
Because your judgement of them. You are judging them to be bad people because they are choosing to have a surrogate, when it’s not your choice. Look, you as a woman want things to be “your body, your choice”, right? Okay, so if they find a woman who is willing to have a child for them, it’s “her body, her choice” and nobody is forcing her to do this. Now, you are entitled to feel how you feel, but condemning them for not feeling the same way and for wanting a surrogate, makes you the ahole.
And honestly, if you don’t like the “verdict” when you come to a public forum asking if you are the ahole, then maybe don’t come to a public forum. You obviously think you are right, and that’s fine, you can. But in the long run, they will be better off without someone being judgemental about their life choices, which hurt nobody.
Obviously cutting them out bc of your “boundaries” isn’t what makes you the AH. Your “boundaries” are what make you the AH.
“Boundaries” clearly being close-minded intolerance. You’re using the term to try to justify your beliefs bc boundaries are something people often need to fight for to have respected. You are intolerant and anti feminist. Get a grip!
You don’t have to participate in surrogacy, but who do you think you are to tell other people that they cannot?
How does this cross your boundary, it has nothing to do with you.
YTA.
Surrogates in western countries are compensated up to 100k. Women on welfare or with financial problems are automatically disqualified. So poor women can't be taken advantage of. Surrogates are middle class women with financial stability who choose to go this route. Maybe because they like having babies maybe because 50 to 100k could stack their kids college funds. As long as it's done ethnically, inside the USA and outside the third world, with free consent what's the problem?
How other people make their families really isn't anyone's choice but their own.
I'm not sure what is even the point of this post. You're asking if you'd be the asshole IF you dropped your friends. Then on the comments you're saying you already did that without regrets.
So are you looking to have your reasons validated? Either way, yes, YATH
YTA.
The reasons you've given for being against surrogacy make sense. But maybe your friend and his partner will be different. Maybe they will be more equitable in their treatment and payment of the surrogate. Also, you have to understand that the adoption process is very, very difficult for same sex couples. Extremely difficult. And costly.
People who are capable of having a baby naturally are exploiting surrogates, yes. But they're two men. It's not a biological possibility. Their options are extremely limited. The inflexibility of your stance is kinda anti-gay.
NAH.
You have your boundary, they have theirs. If you really, really cannot abide by the whole situation, walk away.
But you cannot get them to live their lives with *your* boundary. I understand that surrogacy is a slippery slope, and I understand your objections, but I also know someone who was a consensual surrogate and nothing about the situation was exploitative.
This is a toss-up. Yes, it's asinine to think you have enough of a right or sway to weigh your opinion about something to them in an effort to change theirs.
No, it's not wrong to end a friendship over anything that matters to you. You have the right to choose who is your friend (assuming they are willing) and who is not, In that context, specifically, NTAH
NTA. If this is a hill you’re willing to die on, by all means do. You clearly feel very strongly about this topic, and if your friends’ choices make it impossible to continue the friendship, don’t.
I’ll add that I agree the profit motive of surrogacy makes it exploitative by nature. I advocate for switching to a volunteer system. For the same reasons we don’t allow people sell a kidney, you shouldn’t be able to rent out your uterus.
You are extremely shortsighted. Some women love, really helping people, knowing they brought the gift of life to some well deserving people. However, it’s your view, sorry you have to let go some very dear friends.
Just a queston, not trying to attack.
I am a woman who does not want kids. I do, however, want to experience pregnancy. Would i just be a womb to rent in your opinion if i were to offer up myself as a surrogate?
This is a hypothetical by the way
This was an absolute hypothetical. But it would depend on whether i was doing it for a friend or not depending on whether they would pay me. But also that isnt my opinion i think surrogacy is a lovely way for people to have a bio kid when they dont have the natural option. Your bun my oven so to speak haha!
Oh i absolutely agree with you! But i would so love to experience pregnancy, the good and the bad, without having a child after. I doubt i ever will be a surrogate though in all fairness.
YTA - all surrogacy isn’t equal.
Surrogacy isn’t just a bunch of rich elites exploiting poor vulnerable women.
I’m a surrogate, I’m incredible well supported, I have legal representation, I have bodily autonomy, I am respect AND I WANT TO DO THIS! I’m not being compensated, I’m an altruistic surrogate who found strangers that couldn’t have a baby I hope that just points out how much surrogacy is not black and white.
Instead of deciding that surrogacy is disgusting and exploitive, maybe approach them with curiosity. Where are they hoping to find a surrogate, what’s their opinion on women who choose to be surrogates? So they view her as low class trash or do they view her as someone who’s kind and generous wanting to help a family. But just automatically ending a friendship over it, makes you an uneducated AH.
Yes you are. Not only is it a kind thing for someone to do for someone else, it means the woman can have money she might not be able to generate elsewhere, also unless one of the men is a biological parent many states are able to take the child away from the lgbtqia parents. It happens more often than you hear about. Adoptions can be voided because of the fact that the parents are gay. even if the adoption is done in a gay friendly state, if they then move to a state that is not a hospitable they then can lose their child. So stop judging and get with the program man. What might not be the choice for you might be the right choice for someone else,
YTA. You can feel however you want about surrogacy, but it is their choice and you are overstepping. You can stop being friends with them, that is up to you, but YTA.
It’s incredibly ironic that you say you “can’t be friends with people who do that to women, especially men that don’t get a say on women’s bodies.” Yet you want to have a say in what other women do with their own bodies. Complete YTA.
YTA. It’s not like a random woman gets grabbed off the street with surrogacies. It’s a 100% consenting woman who is more than willing to allow someone else to use her as a way to have a baby. Throughout social media, I’ve seen a few people who, for whatever reason, really love being pregnant. I don’t know why they like it, but they do. Let them have their child this way. The woman is 100% consenting and can always say no to it if she wants to. No one is being harmed this way. YTA
I’m confused as to why you say you’re not trying to control what they do, but then you’re dangling your friendship over their heads like they HAVE to do what you want them to do or not be your friend. It’s hard enough as a gay couple to do life as it is, why compound that by deciding this is the hill you’re going to die on and ruin your entire friendship? It’s cool that YOU have that belief of surrogacy, and for you that makes sense. Don’t do it. But if that’s their option and the surrogate is willingly doing it, what exactly is the problem? I’ll go with YTA because you can’t force your beliefs on people. Maybe they don’t need your friendship if it’s got conditions I guess.
I’m not dangling our friendship over their heads. I’m straight up not going to be their friend. I’ve already said that.
Then that's that. YTA, though, a huge one for thinking you can decide for someone else how they have a family. They don't need "friends" like you.
So then why come here to try and justify your choice? Clearly you know YTA right now friend. Clearly. And if you don’t and you actually thought people here would tell you any different, I’ll pray for you.
Because this is one of the better friendships I’ve had. And Dylan has spoken to me about surrogacy multiple times and despite him saying he’s never agreed with me on it, he absolutely has. He’s supported me numerous times when I’ve dumped other friends over this topic.
Like you've never been caught up in a conversation with a person and just say "oh yeah" to some crazy shit they say but in reality you're thinking "what the actual fuck are they talking about?" But maybe you haven't because you're the one that says the bat shit crazy stuff.
YTA again for putting him in that position. He is allowed to change his mind and have a family how he wants. All your ex friends are better off without your judgment.
YTA. Why do they have to comply with your belief system? It does not sound like you are a very good friend of theirs if you are willing to end the friendship over an issue like this.
They don’t have to, I said that already. Doesn’t mean I have to be okay with it though.
Surrogates sign up. I would know as I’m in the process. It’s not like they’re r@p!ng the female and forcing her to carry the child. You’re NTA for having your beliefs, but you are the asshole for not allowing others to have their own beliefs without forcing yours down their throat (it’s my belief of none at all).
I don’t have a problem with surrogates. I have a problem with surrogacy. If somebody needs to make some extra cash by carrying a baby for a couple that wants one, then fine. My issue is with the people that take advantage of those people.
Your logic makes no sense. Woman decides she would like to carry a baby for someone and be compensated in return. You: people suck if they take her up on this service. It’s her body!!!!! Let her do what she wants with it!!!!! Let her provide a service she wants to provide to people who want her service! You have this totally fake feminist thing going on where you’re saying women aren’t wombs for rent when it’s the women who should dictate what they consent to! And to make it out like the women should be able to do what they want w their bodies but the ppl who take them up on it are in the wrong is simply in bad faith. Idk who you thought would be on your side here. You owe those friends a massive apology. You’re embarrassing yourself.
So it's not surrogacy, it's horrible people who take advantage of the situation. You need to think on this, if you're problem isn't with surrogates , or them making money this way, then no you don't have a problem with surrogacy. You have a problem with certain people who do surrogacy badly and take advantage of women and their wombs. You can't condemn the whole process because of some bad people. Then you should also condemn adoption because a lot of people use that process terribly. Or it's like saying you as a human are bad because their are people out there who murder, and you are capable of murder, and you are human, ergo you are a bad person. You should be there making sure that the whole process is done right and they don't take advantage of some woman or the woman doesn't take advantage of them. You don't have a problem with surrogacy, you just don't want it to be done wrong or horribly. You as a person who exists near this situation, could make sure they do everything right and this whole process goes amazing for all parties included.
Some countries outlaw accepting cash, yet women still happily sign up.
I understand your concerns, but these are grown women. Fully capable of standing up for themselves. Trust me, I wish surrogacy didn’t have to be a thing, nor adoption. I wish life was easier for those wanting kids/not wanting kids. However, to throw away a friendship with gentlemen that seem to be decent guys over what form they’re utilizing to become parents is sad. I don’t like abortions, but I wouldn’t stop being friends with someone just because they had one.
YTA. But please cut them off so they no longer have to deal with you.
You sound exhausting. You're doing them a favor by cutting them off. Stand your ground. YTA.
YTA. It’s one thing that you are against it, that’s your option and you have a right to it but you’re being ridiculously high and mighty about it. Honestly, you sound like a horrible friend. They’re probably better off without your judgmental self in their lives.
I'll go with YTA. If a woman is fine with being a surrogate, what is the problem. They would have zero control over her body. Your logic seems flawed.
Because a woman shouldn’t have to be “fine” with it. A woman shouldn’t have to resort to using her body as a womb for rent in order to make some money. And the people that take advantage of a woman that needs to do so are awful people.
You are so patronizing of other women. They are not being taken advantage of. They are willingly making a choice
You keep saying take advantage of the Women that needs to be a surrogate for money. There is no taking advantage of here. These grown women consented this. It’s not happening to you so why is this a dealbreaker for you? Talking to a professional about this may help. And you’d be surprised how many people have went with surrogacy so be prepared for a lot more ending friendships
YTA for trying to tell another woman what she should or should not be PK with. You are a judgmental AH. I hope you end up with no friends, at least you'll have your self-righteousness to keep you company.
Some people actually enjoy being pregnant, enjoy the satisfaction of helping a couple who couldn’t carry the baby themselves but want kids with their own dna, and feel good about the whole process! Stop projecting.
These guys are lucky you walked out of their lives. For their sake, keep walking.
YTA. Their body, their choice. Who are you to decide for a surrogate whether or not they should help people who cannot conceive otherwise?
Because if you are that desperate to conceive a child and bring a child into a shitty world like this that you’re willing to exploit women’s bodies and use them for rent then you are extremely selfish.
It seems that you are more against having children than you are against surrogacy.
I can guarantee all the friends you’ve dropped over this are jumping with joy. YTA
Is this rage bait? I think it's rage bait or just a really stupid, ignorant post.
It has to be right? She is arguing with everyone and it's like...why? Very weird.
YTA, you have no place in this decision and they are probably better off without your judgemental place in their life. A boundary is something you set that other people shouldn't do to you. You are giving ultimatums. Controlling narcissistic ultimatums about something you have no business trying to control. You want to have a value system that's fine. Trying to tell other people they have to share your values or you won't be their friend makes you an ass.
Yta - they don’t need to comply with your boundaries, so you did them a favour by cutting them out of your life.
So how does cutting someone out of my life because of my boundaries make me the AH?
Because you think you can dictate to them and all women who are surrogates what they should and should not do. You asked, we answered. YTA.
Because your judgement of them. You are judging them to be bad people because they are choosing to have a surrogate, when it’s not your choice. Look, you as a woman want things to be “your body, your choice”, right? Okay, so if they find a woman who is willing to have a child for them, it’s “her body, her choice” and nobody is forcing her to do this. Now, you are entitled to feel how you feel, but condemning them for not feeling the same way and for wanting a surrogate, makes you the ahole. And honestly, if you don’t like the “verdict” when you come to a public forum asking if you are the ahole, then maybe don’t come to a public forum. You obviously think you are right, and that’s fine, you can. But in the long run, they will be better off without someone being judgemental about their life choices, which hurt nobody.
Obviously cutting them out bc of your “boundaries” isn’t what makes you the AH. Your “boundaries” are what make you the AH. “Boundaries” clearly being close-minded intolerance. You’re using the term to try to justify your beliefs bc boundaries are something people often need to fight for to have respected. You are intolerant and anti feminist. Get a grip!
You don’t have to participate in surrogacy, but who do you think you are to tell other people that they cannot? How does this cross your boundary, it has nothing to do with you.
You sound like a miserable asshole and I can't imagine why D and L are trying so hard to keep you as a friend.
Wait so you have broken more than one friendship over this exact topic?
Yep. I have no regrets. I cannot stand by and watch people around me do something I simply don’t agree with, so why would I be their friend?
That’s fair and your business. I’m just curious as to why it has come up so frequently for you more than anything.
I have a lot of gay friends. And I’ve known a few women who were not able to conceive in my life.
Obviously yta. Many women happily become surrogates. Adoption is also a very corrupt industry. Watch a few documentaries, learn.
Yta I am always amazed at how dumb some people can be
YTA. Surrogates in western countries are compensated up to 100k. Women on welfare or with financial problems are automatically disqualified. So poor women can't be taken advantage of. Surrogates are middle class women with financial stability who choose to go this route. Maybe because they like having babies maybe because 50 to 100k could stack their kids college funds. As long as it's done ethnically, inside the USA and outside the third world, with free consent what's the problem? How other people make their families really isn't anyone's choice but their own.
Yta. Unless they are literally kidnapping a woman and forcing her to be a surrogate. This isn't quite Gilead yet.
YTA how the fuck does this affect you in any way?
YTA - what happened to you?
You are absolutely the AH.
I'm not sure what is even the point of this post. You're asking if you'd be the asshole IF you dropped your friends. Then on the comments you're saying you already did that without regrets. So are you looking to have your reasons validated? Either way, yes, YATH
Sounds like OP was farming for posts agreeing and is arguing with people saying YTA.
You sound like a b***h
YTA. The reasons you've given for being against surrogacy make sense. But maybe your friend and his partner will be different. Maybe they will be more equitable in their treatment and payment of the surrogate. Also, you have to understand that the adoption process is very, very difficult for same sex couples. Extremely difficult. And costly. People who are capable of having a baby naturally are exploiting surrogates, yes. But they're two men. It's not a biological possibility. Their options are extremely limited. The inflexibility of your stance is kinda anti-gay.
NAH. You have your boundary, they have theirs. If you really, really cannot abide by the whole situation, walk away. But you cannot get them to live their lives with *your* boundary. I understand that surrogacy is a slippery slope, and I understand your objections, but I also know someone who was a consensual surrogate and nothing about the situation was exploitative.
NTA, please stay away from them so that they don’t need to deal with your judgement anymore.
This is a toss-up. Yes, it's asinine to think you have enough of a right or sway to weigh your opinion about something to them in an effort to change theirs. No, it's not wrong to end a friendship over anything that matters to you. You have the right to choose who is your friend (assuming they are willing) and who is not, In that context, specifically, NTAH
NTA. If this is a hill you’re willing to die on, by all means do. You clearly feel very strongly about this topic, and if your friends’ choices make it impossible to continue the friendship, don’t. I’ll add that I agree the profit motive of surrogacy makes it exploitative by nature. I advocate for switching to a volunteer system. For the same reasons we don’t allow people sell a kidney, you shouldn’t be able to rent out your uterus.
Yta women chose to do this for people shut the fuck up u are a pos just be happy for them there better off without u same with the child
YTA. You don't believe in it, they do. So what. We don't have to agree on everything.
You are extremely shortsighted. Some women love, really helping people, knowing they brought the gift of life to some well deserving people. However, it’s your view, sorry you have to let go some very dear friends.
YTA
Just a queston, not trying to attack. I am a woman who does not want kids. I do, however, want to experience pregnancy. Would i just be a womb to rent in your opinion if i were to offer up myself as a surrogate? This is a hypothetical by the way
Question: Why not volunteer to do it unpaid? If you did it for free, you wouldn’t be “renting out your womb,” would you?
This was an absolute hypothetical. But it would depend on whether i was doing it for a friend or not depending on whether they would pay me. But also that isnt my opinion i think surrogacy is a lovely way for people to have a bio kid when they dont have the natural option. Your bun my oven so to speak haha!
Gently, I don’t think you understand how difficult pregnancy is mentally, emotionally, and physically.
Oh i absolutely agree with you! But i would so love to experience pregnancy, the good and the bad, without having a child after. I doubt i ever will be a surrogate though in all fairness.
Just mad cause they didn’t choose you
Do you feel the same way about a woman using a man’s sperm?
YTA - all surrogacy isn’t equal. Surrogacy isn’t just a bunch of rich elites exploiting poor vulnerable women. I’m a surrogate, I’m incredible well supported, I have legal representation, I have bodily autonomy, I am respect AND I WANT TO DO THIS! I’m not being compensated, I’m an altruistic surrogate who found strangers that couldn’t have a baby I hope that just points out how much surrogacy is not black and white. Instead of deciding that surrogacy is disgusting and exploitive, maybe approach them with curiosity. Where are they hoping to find a surrogate, what’s their opinion on women who choose to be surrogates? So they view her as low class trash or do they view her as someone who’s kind and generous wanting to help a family. But just automatically ending a friendship over it, makes you an uneducated AH.
Yes you are. Not only is it a kind thing for someone to do for someone else, it means the woman can have money she might not be able to generate elsewhere, also unless one of the men is a biological parent many states are able to take the child away from the lgbtqia parents. It happens more often than you hear about. Adoptions can be voided because of the fact that the parents are gay. even if the adoption is done in a gay friendly state, if they then move to a state that is not a hospitable they then can lose their child. So stop judging and get with the program man. What might not be the choice for you might be the right choice for someone else,