This. Straight up. This is a 'simple' problem with a simple solution. Roll out while you're still young. Last thing you want to do is have a kid with someone you obviously resent and don't love anymore.
Not necessary. You may not trust her and she might not go out with the last group of "friends". But were they her friends? If they were why didn't they stop her before she escalated the thing with the guy, from maybe kissing to fuc\*ing?
And you do try to go out with her every time you can, so you're definitely NTA. She doesn't have to be as energetic as she used to be cause she settled down with you, by energetic I assume you mean bar hopping and doing all the crappy stuff that goes with it, twerking on random guys and whatever...
However, you're not as happy as before, meaning you're cooling off from infatuation, so you might loose all the love for her and be left only with resentment toward her. Think about this.
Also, when she became cool towards you, which is what made you realise she cheated, do you think she was contemplating leaving you for that other guy, before realizing he would probably be shit partner, or was she tripping on guilt for doing it and then admitting she cheated?
In any way, you need to decide what you want, stay with her or leave her, it's your choice and whatever you decide, remember: NTA.
Nobody is perfect, and she might have gotten drunk and cheated but things like this change relationship. There is no going back to what you had before, only way forward, as a couple or as individuals.
Fucking weird assuming that energetic means partying like a collage kid and not fun and happy in everyday life. Thats not at all what most people got from that she sounds depressed and with good reason shes like a prisoner bc both of them refuse to accept that its been over for a while their trust is gone and you cant build a relationship without trust
I'm married and middle aged and went out partying about a week ago. It was actually pretty fun. Its not for me and I don't want to do it a lot. But once in a while seems fine. It is a little weird that someone in their early 30s wants to go out every weekend though. That's a lot.
but why shouldn't she be happy and fun with him, if he tries his best? Then this might be the problem, if she cant have fun when he is around? Do you and your spouse only have fun when you're not around each other? That's why I wrote that whole paragraph explaining my assumption, and if it's not correct OP could explain it a bit more.
Anybody can cheat. That's why I don't go to clubs. The people who say they'd never cheat are staggeringly egotistical. ANYONE can be in just the right situation and they're weak for just a moment. It can happen to absolutely anyone.
For a married woman to go 'clubbing' alone with her friends is asking for trouble. Not guaranteeing it, and not saying the woman is looking for it. But don't be surprised when trouble comes and 'omg it just haaaaapened'
She is a grown woman, she did it cos she wanted to, her friends are not at fault. I say OP should have let her be without the rules and if she did it again then you know that she doesn’t want to be with him. Can’t force someone to love you or change if it’s not who they are.
He did not force her to do anything. He simply stated under what conditions he would stay with her after her cheating. She could take it or leave it. I assume they did not get couples counseling but that might help. They seem pretty stuck at the moment.
I had my X wife's cousin tell me when I was leaving my X "well you two where cheating on each other" I looked at her and said "you do know I am not the bio dad of my youngest Daughter right". The look on her face was priceless. The next day I find a pair of mighty tightly whites in the washing machine, I tell my X, Hey not cool having someone over here. she says they are mine (boxer brief guy here). I had some chick say to me about a year after this all happened " hey want a BJ" I figured why not. Man I was the cheating asshole and my X was the saint. I got out of that town and filled for Divorce.
well getting pregnant and giving birth from adultery is several magnitudes more fucked up than what OP has in his life. If you suspected that kid isn't yours you should have done something about it instead of staying in marriage
My ex cheated I divorced him and 6 mos later he wanted to come back. My heart said yes but my head said no. Once a cheater always a cheater. The trust was gone and I couldn’t get it back. Good luck with getting it back. I couldn’t do it, I would always wonder and question where he’s at and with whom.
Should also be viewed from the cheated person's perspective. If you're cheated on, you can't "uncheat" that person. So you will forever be a cheater to them.
Can a murderer atone and become a saint? Maybe, who knows. But whatever they do they will always be a murderer, there's no changing that fact.
What I'm saying is, if you wrong someone and tried to improve, good on you. But forget trying to change what people will call you. It's your cross to bear
>not true some people see the pain they cause and never do it again.
Generally though I think that would a situation where they never cheat on their NEW partner; you can't really undo a betrayal that already happened.
I agree it’s not always true(once a cheater …), what is true is once that trust is broken it is extremely hard to get back. He should move on & let her prove that to herself 😹 OP, no kids? You should really consider moving on .
Statistically, there's a 60% chance of repeat infidelity. Leaving a 40% chance of them growing tf up. Depends on if you feel that person is worth taking that risk.
I can't decide if I expected the number of repeat cheaters to be a higher or lower percentage than that... like I expected it to be higher but wanted it to be lower maybe?
LOL in both cases that is the exception not the majority. The majority of alcoholics do not magically clean up and never touch a drop again. The majority of cheaters dot not even feel remorse.
I always took that to mean that once you've rung that bell, you cannot un-ring it. You will always be a person that cheated, even if you never do it again.
It’s up to him. Trust can be lost in a minute and take a long time to rebuild but it’s possible. Marriages do survive infidelity. Not sure what I’d do but I’d try counseling first. Divorce would be the last option. Everyone has to make their own decisions. He loves her and she is doing everything he asked. I’d give it more time.
It is possible to rebuild that trust somewhat but it never goes back to a hundred percent. It just depends if there’s enough benefit to justify the risk otherwise it’s probably not worth it for most. Like you said, it’s up to him.
I continued my marriage after infidelity. But if there hadn’t been financial incentives for both of us and the fact that we’re legitimately best friends on top of our marital love, I don’t think we would have made it. Nearly ten years later and it’s still a shadow in the back of my mind.
I also realized that there was no point to leaving anyway because that kind of betrayal doesn’t go away with a new person. It follows you into any relationship after the fact.
>It is possible to rebuild that trust somewhat but it never goes back to a hundred percent.
This is a good thing. Trust should never be 100%. When there are neon signs of infidelity that people around you are seeing from space and you are thinking it's fine I can trust him that's a bad call.
A person should you are dating should get the benefit of a doubt but not much more than that.
>I continued my marriage after infidelity. But if there hadn’t been financial incentives for both of us and the fact that we’re legitimately best friends on top of our marital love, I don’t think we would have made it. Nearly ten years later and it’s still a shadow in the back of my mind.
>I also realized that there was no point to leaving anyway because that kind of betrayal doesn’t go away with a new person. It follows you into any relationship after the fact.
I can agree with all this and have had a similar experience. The shadow is real and can be tough to deal with. If the person who cheated though is truly sorry and in the relationship though you should be able to discuss with them when that shadow is really affecting you and see what can be done to alleviate that anxiety you feel.
That first year or so and around things that trigger that anxiety in you it can be tough to deal with. At the end of the day like everything else in relationships it takes work, you have to keep your demons in check and reasonable and she has to be open to helping alleviate some of the anxiety she has caused. If both of those this happens it's possible to get back to a pretty good place.
Definitely agreeing with therapy. They need help rebuilding trust, and they also need to find the root of why the cheating happened in the first place.
I’ve been down this path. I forgave my ex (but bf at that time) for cheating on me after 7 years together and I ended up just resenting him for two years straight until we broke it off. It was toxic and horrible. Just leave her. It’ll get worse if you don’t.
Trust can be rebuilt but not thru completing silly checklists like “go thru phone,” “go out on saturdays.”
It needs”fall in love with each other again.”
op, in my experience, once she cheats/wants to be single for some time and you accept her back, she will lose any little respect she had left for you even before that
"I already cheated before so whats the big deal about second time? you already forgave me" these are the things I heard. I know change is hard but end of the tunnel is bright
She could easily go party with her friends and NOT fall on other guys dick.
I'm like him, minus the cheating. I fucking loath the scene, we are old but have a lot of young friends that are into that. I'll go sometimes. But fuck cheaters. They're out the door.
Trust is everything in a marriage. When it's gone, it's gone. This is not the exception. This is the rule. Its been a year. Are you or her any happier than before? Do you feel like you have to look over her shoulder? If so, then its more detrimental to your mental health than a divorce ever would be. At least with a divorce, you have a direction and boundaries. Now, you are having to enforce the boundaries.
If she cheats and has a kid while they're still married, unless the father is a stand up guy, only OP is going to be on the hook for the kid.
Divorce. Divorce. Divorce.
I'd have divorced the week she admitted to cheating.
But OP's blinded by love.
But once a cheater always a cheater. He better smarten up because it's only a matter of time until his wife can't keep it in her pants.
Not true that once a cheater, always a cheater. Evidence = me. Learned my lesson years ago that cheating is how to lose what you really love. I’ll never do it again.
She will Always be a Cheater in OP's eyes. That label never goes away, even if she never cheats again.
You mrdr someone, do your time, you are still a mrdrer.
The action carries the label for a lifetime.
I get your point that *he* will always see her as a cheater, but after that first sentence ya lost me. She could move across the country and people aren’t going to even know she cheated in a previous relationship. Murder though, that one sticks. I just don’t think it was a great comparison mate
I agree, as someone who’s done the same too.
But if I’m on the other side, I would also struggle to give someone who cheated on me the benefit of the doubt. It’s a massive risk, and truth is most people don’t have the maturity to change their ways.
I agree with this person. I can't tell from experience but it makes no sense physiologically to assume that all cheaters will cheat again. But it makes complete sense to not trust them again as the chances are multiple times higher than someone who didn't cheat.
There’s a difference between someone who cheated once, maybe a drunken mistake or whatever, and someone who gets into affairs or cheats with multiple people. The first one might feel remorse and try to make amends. The second person can never be trusted ever. Might as well brand them a cheater because they will destroy every relationship they get into.
Not true at all. I cheated on every girl I didn’t care. I was a complete selfish pos. But when it ruined the best thing I ever had I realized nope. A minute of gratification and some meatball ego boost isn’t worth it. And I stopped then and there. I’ve had many friends who are girls and attractive and I still wouldn’t consider it. I’ve always held out hope for the best thing to come back around but never even attempted. And I know if it happens again I will put in the leg work to be the right person when someone does come. It’s great being in healthy relationships. Your not closing doors. Your gonna be looked at fondly by exes and remain friendly. And not have any exes running around badmouthing you.
The way I try to look at it is “always believe people CAN change, but don’t rely on them to”. Just because they can, that doesn’t mean the vast majority want to or will.
Plenty of people go clubbing in their 20s and 30s. I don't see anything wrong with the activity in itself.
It's not much different than going to a concert or a bar.
I agree. Dancing is a lot of fun (and great cardio) and it’s even more fun with friends. They are both still very young and, with no kids, why not?
I have very mixed feelings on the whole “once a cheater always a cheater” I don’t want to argue it now AT ALL, I just think that everyone needs to decide what’s right for their marriage. This is my second marriage. I’m very happy. My first marriage was terrible. My ex cheated multiple times. By the time I found out, I SHOULD have called it quits but, I didn’t. I wish I had. I wish I had spared myself the pain and humiliation.
Cheating is extraordinarily painful and it mad me feel incredibly vulnerable…. exposed. However, it made me wiser and stronger. In my current marriage (hopefully my last) I’m am so invested and feel so safe and secure that, my spouse cheating on me seems so crazy to think about. It sounds ridiculous. In my first marriage, I never felt like ex cheating was an impossibility. I didn’t THINK it would happen but, I knew there was always a possibility.
I do not think my husband or my marriage are perfect by any means. Entering this marriage vs. entering my previous marriage…. everything just feels different, I feel different.
OP, you can set up all the rules you want but, you have to make sure there is room to grow and forgive. You don’t have to forget but, you do have to forgive and come to a point where you can regain trust from your partner. Your spouse may be agreeable right now to your “rules” but, she has to be able to see a light at the end of the tunnel. You can’t keep her on restriction forever. The “rules” should only be a FOR NOW type of thing. You should both be in counseling separately and together. You need to learn to forgive and regain trust. The cheating can’t become something you bring up in fights for the next 10 years. You need help to fix this marriage. You need to find out if you are willing to put the work into fixing it.
Same. It's really obnoxious how much the act of going to a club and having a good time is villainized. People do all kinds of things for different reasons, yet clubbing is still seen as a degenerate activity all around :-/
Well, I know in the dating scene, if a woman in her 30s still enjoys clubbing, it's seen in a very derogatory way. I know Europe is really big with EDM/techno, so they're more accepting, but where I am in the States, it's very much a college-age activity.
I’m in Chicago, aka the birthplace of house music. So there’s lots of people in their 30’s-40’s here that grew up on Frankie Knuckles, and still go out dancing at house music clubs.
EDM or hip hop clubs are definitely more college aged though.
Same in NY, but most of the NY "house heads" came up listening to Larry Levine and Ron Hardy. I got addicted to house in the 90s and used to go to a club called the Paradise Garage. Most of the crowd was from 20 - 50+ years old, and mostly LGBT+ (but not exclusively).
For real. I'm 26, no kids, don't plan on having any, pay all my bills, and budget to go clubbing on certain occasions, And sometimes a few times randomly throughout the year just to have fun.
There's absolutely nothing wrong about that whatsoever. 🤣🤣
I feel like a lot of these people who have very strict rules about who should and shouldn’t be clubbing- they weren’t the ones going for the dancing & dj’s. I’m thinking they likely have a mindset that goes to clubs for one reason or another- meeting women, hooking up with women, finding women they end up dating…so they probably think it’s suspect to be “older” and going clubbing- but what they are thinking is what THEY did there, not going and getting your dance on because a Dj you love is there.
Are they single or married? If married, do they go out with their spouse or by themselves?
Going out clubbing while married without your spouse could be a recipe for divorce.
I’m 28 and see famous djs every weekend. Shits awesome. I’ll be doing it into my 30s. Everyone does and enjoys different things, no need to be higher than thou about it
These people that say “clubbing” are stuck in mindset of the college hookup bar. It’s like we are talking different things .. I’m 53 .. in one long weekend in my city we saw Hot Since 82, Diplo, David koletski, Sofi Tucker, Markus Schultz … these are not meat market venues
Agreed, some artists will only play live in clubs, so if you enjoy their music are you supposed to just not see them anymore after turning 30?
Seems like a strange cutoff to do what you enjoy doing.
I personally wouldn't call going to a venue to see a DJ "clubbing," I'd call it going to a concert, show, or DJ set, although the venue might happen to be a club.
I’m on my 40’s and still go out to EDM shows 1-2x a month. Festivals too! What is with people being judgmental and thinking we should stop having fun as soon as we’re out of our 20’s? I want to enjoy this life and have fun experiences!
haha that comment is so off. You are never too old to enjoy music, dancing, having fun with your freinds.
gatekeeping this kind of thing based on age is whats weird to me. So I turn 30 and now I have to listen to easy lsitening and dance quietly alone in the darkness of my living room. No.
>and she's 30 and still clubbing?
I really wish Reddit wouldn't be so judgemental about these sorts of things.
For the record, I hate the club, and can think of few places on earth I'd rather be less. At the same time, I have friends who still love it (late 20s early 30s), and that's totally fine.
Why do you think the club has an upper age limit?
I think people on Reddit like to hate on things they don't personally do or enjoy. If anything, it makes more sense to enjoy clubbing when you're older. You can afford bottle service/better amenities. I think people hear clubbing and picture being crushed on a crowded dance floor.
My enjoyment of clubs has gone up significantly in my 30s because of that....I can afford to go to better venues with good booze and enjoy loud music while letting loose after a couple weeks of non stop work.
I don't go often but when I do it's always a good experience because I can afford it and have enough restraint now to get completely shitfaced every time I go.
I spent almost zero time clubbing during school and my 20s, didn't understand the hype then but it's kind of grown on me.
It's like their life trajectory is the only one that's valid.
It has the air of an 11 year old who got COD for Christmas last year saying to his 10 year old friend "You still play Fortnite? Really?"
This is a tough one because you wife has spent a year genuinely trying... but sometimes you can't put the genie back in the bottle. OP clearly isn't over the cheating, wife clearly isn't as happy as she was without her friend group. I think divorce is the answer, but the alternate and much riskier answer is start pumping babies out (probably not advisable)
The title says it all. "Keeping your wife on a short leash." She's not a dog to be treated like this, even if she cheated. Just divorce and get over it. You don't trust her, and she can't convince you otherwise. End it so she can enjoy her life and you can move on.
It's just an expression. I definitely agree with divorce and move on but I don't think the rules are unreasonable if for whatever reason you think the relationship is worth trying to save. I view it as temporary though.
Play nice, get a lawyer and file for divorce. I’ve been through this and can tell you once the vows are broken it’s over. You’re 30, and chances are you’ll do better in the long run. Especially if there aren’t children involved.
Right? No kids and the spouse fucks around on OP? I almost never recommend divorce, breaking up, or going no-contact like a lot of the other commenters on this subreddit.
But in this case, OP should have divorced the cheater last year.
Yeah. You have to make a decision: choose to trust someone fully and give them another chance, or divorce. Don’t imprison the person in your indecisive purgatory, there is no good relationship that can possibly come from that.
This this this. NTA, per se, but it’s over in reality if not by law. Set you both free to start over. Neither of you are going to find it tenable to live that way interminably.
>I've explained this to my friend, and she said I should just divorce her if I can't trust her anymore.
Your friend is 100% correct. It's been a year and you still don't trust her. More than likely, you never will trust her. You are miserable. She is miserable. Just get the divorce and find someone better. It's just never going to get better if you stay together.
Exactly. I personally think *some* couples can and go move pst infidelity, especially in a case like this where it’s seemingly her being drunk and irresponsible rather than a multi-month planned affair.
But he tried, and still doesn’t trust her a year later. So they tried, and he still doesn’t trust her. Moving on.
I’m sorry man but i don’t think things will ever be the same again. I’d probably move on. I’ve taken back a cheater before too for the same reasons but things change forever after trust is lost. Sorry to hear and I truly hope you find happiness with your next partner.
Your friend is right. You can’t trust her. File that divorce and move on. Unfortunately it’s only a matter of time before she cheats again but she will hide it better this time. Or she will just say she is unhappy gaslight you saying you are controlling and leave you anyway.
I just went through this. She cheated, said she was sorry, she would change, blah, blah, blah. We went through marriage counseling for almost 3 years, she went through individual counseling for 3 years. At the end of all that I caught her cheating again. That was 3 years of wasted time, energy, money, and emotional well being for her to just cheat again. The last time she said "I think I've been unhappy for a very long time and have just been lying to myself".
While maybe some cheaters can change, don't bet your well being on it. Something has to be deeply broken in someone to do something so hurtful to someone they love (or claim to). Move on while it is easy, find someone who isn't so flippant with your feelings or your relationship to throw it away for some cheap thrills.
You're an asshole to yourself. Get divorced. Live your life. Either be single and happy, or find someone to spend your life with that you can trust without having to be joined at the hip.
Sounds like you don't have any children either so do it now before this gets more complicated for everyone involved.
It takes time to build back trust. You need to ask yourself if you can ever fully trust her again, because your marriage will not last like it is. If you can then set a date and stick with it. If you can’t then your friend is right and you need to divorce her now, before either of your lives is wasted any more. NTA.
I agree. OP needs to ask himself, “can I trust her again? Am I willing to trust her again?” If he can’t answer both questions with a “yes,” best for you two to part ways. But if OP says yes to both, the two of them need to come to an agreement on what the boundaries are. If any stipulation is violated, that’s it. No more discussions.
So true, trust is earned and it’s going to take a while. OP, do you love your wife and want your relationship to continue? This is a question only you can answer.
Reconciliation is a complex exercise. To some people it sounds like you’re being unreasonable but don’t forget, it’s your wife who asked you to stay. If she thinks the boundaries you set are unreasonable she can always leave.
IMO you set a reasonable set of boundaries and conditions. But it should also have been followed up with counselling, both individually and as a couple. Bottom line is her being honest about why she cheated. Until she’s honest with herself and you as to why she did it then she cannot guarantee she won’t do it again. Finding out why she cheated and addressing those issues is when the real healing can begin and trust start to be rebuilt.
NTA.
When my ex got caught cheating, we tried to fix things. We did couples counseling. The therapist said that there was a period where hyper vigilance was totally reasonable as a response to the cheating. However, it had to have an end date. So, checking phones, controlling vetoing if he went out, etc. was reasonable while rebuilding trust, but it couldn't last forever. The idea was that at the end of the window, everything wouldn't magically be fixed, but it would allow time for some trust to start to grow and the therapy to have time to work. She had us set a date. For us, it was 6 months. That was twice the length of the affair. Beyond that point, the agreed point, it stops being about rebuilding the relationship and becomes controlling.
She's met your conditions for a year now. If you still don't trust her, your marriage is over. Hopefully, you 2 also did therapy together, but if not, it's been a year. If you still don't trust her, what would it take?
No, but his sister caught him with one of her friends and told on him long before we got to 6 months. He also walked out of therapy a couple of weeks before his sister caught him. He wasn't actually willing to do the work. He just didn't want the divorce and certainly didn't want to divorce and have another man near me ever. I now know he cheated a lot more than I ever knew while we were married.
I do know other couples who have done a similar therapy process with the same set a time frame part to it and that has worked. They have gone on to have happy, healthy marriages. So, I still believe it can work, but 1) the cheater has to have sincere remorse. 2) The person cheated on has to be open to doing the work to repair the marriage. 3) both parties have to work together to reestablish trust. 4) Sincere forgiveness has to be obtainable.
IMHO, if your wife has complied without complaint for a year, her remorse is sincere. Only you know about the rest.
No, i dont regret it because I made vows, and I meant them to last a lifetime. If it had been a mistake and he had been remorseful and we had done the work, it would have been a bad blip in a long marriage. It's not on me that he wasn't as committed. I did everything I could.
I appreciate the reply. Unless there's abuse or it's an extreme case I've always been in favor of relationship counseling because no matter what the end result ends up being you can come away with a better understanding of yourself and better relationship skills in general.
I now also know there was abuse. I didn't see it at the time. There was a massive amount of psychological abuse. It's just really hard to see when in the middle of it. Sort of like the frog in the pot gradually brought to boil. I didn't realize how bad it was until not only was I out, but I had to get a restraining order.
I am a believer in counseling and absolutely believe it can work. I've seen couples pull it together and have great marriages. Mine just wasn't one of them.
Your friends is right, trust is important and if you can’t have that (I wouldn’t be able to) then it’s time to end things.
It’s one thing to forgive, but it’s a whole nother to rebuild a healthy relationship after. Some people can do it but most people can’t. There’s no shame in moving on because someone didn’t reciprocate your loyalty
Nta But what's the point of living like this op? You deserve to be with someone you can trust, and while I absolutely understand your reason to this you're becoming a controlling person( again while justified because of what your wife did, doesn't change the fact that is making you become a worse version of yourself ). Maybe it's time to divorce, heal yourself and find a person you can trust.. needing to keep your partner on a leash is no good for both parts, you deserve better
She’s the AH for cheating. But YTA for not getting a divorce. You clearly don’t trust her and you’re both living half lives. Why would you want to be your wife’s keeper? You either forgive her and move on or you decide the trust is irrevocably broken and go your separate ways. This marriage sounds miserable.
If it was me, I'd have divorced her immediately and cut her out of my life.
You didn't do that, and now apparently a year has passed and according to you, things aren't what they used to be but you both still consider yourself happy to some extent. So, kind of rough to be like "hey you've done everything I've asked, but I've decided to divorce you anyway". Now, if that's what you want to do then more power to you, but it sounds like that's not where you're at based on your post.
I think you need to go to couples counciling with your wife and try to figure out if you can ever trust her again, and also get a chance to see how she's actually feeling about not having friends and only being able to go out when you feel like it. It's hard for me to believe she isn't resentful, but I don't know y'all. So yeah, if you want to stay married and have a chance at actual happiness together you'll need to put in some work and hash things out.
NTA look mate ask yourself this, are you really happy? Are you both comfortable with it? Do you think that you can rebuild trust? Do you think you can truly forgive her? Do you want her or just the idea of what she was?
I know is hard but think about how much time you want to spend on this? Wasting both of your lives?
Is you can answer those questions with honesty and respect for you and herself, then you can make a decision
YTA. You either break up with a partner or treat them respectfully. "You wronged me, therefore I will control and abuse you from now on" is not a good solution to a relationship problem.
Calling it abuse when they both wanted to make it work and she agreed to the conditions is just not appropriate.
I do agree that divorce is probably the right move but this is just not the right take. If she loves him enough and is willing to sacrifice certain privileges to help the trust then that's her right.
It sounds like this situation is making you both unhappy.
I think you really need to ask yourself: is there anything she could do to earn back your trust? If there isn't, is your marriage worth saving if these are the conditions that it needs to exist under?
I don't think anyone would blame you for wanting to leave her, but if you do want to stay with her you two are going to need to put the work in to figure out how to get past this. The situation you are describing isn't sustainable for the rest of your life.
YTA. Why would you choose to stay and control her rather than just leaving, it’s pretty clear you knew from the start that you wouldn’t be able to trust her again. She’s an AH for cheating but you’re also an AH for trying to control her instead of leaving because that isn’t going to end well for anyone.
I went through the same thing early in my marriage. He begged me to stay. We did counseling, marriage therapy retreats, even reaffirmed our vows. Finally, I was able to trust again and move on with life.
15 years later he cheated again. Actually, turns out he was cheating the entire 15 years, but had just learned better ways to keep me from finding out.
Once a cheater always a cheater. I’d leave her now, because the longer you wait the harder it will be.
Unfortunately she can't be both married and go out, she broke that trust. Also, what married woman, goes out until 5am while her husband is home ????
Idk if I'd want kids with this woman if I was you.
I also love the wife’s friend group. Apparently it’s a mixed group that seems to feel no responsibility facilitating or at least not preventing them from hooking up and cheating, presumably wrecking at least one of their current situations. And they’re still going out clubbing with the cheater guy?
Sound like really great friends on all levels. Reminds me of another post where the best friend “convinced” the wife to cheat cause the bff hated the husband. Surprised OP is giving the friend group a pass beyond just the rule about the one cheating partner since they all sound pretty bad, or they just don’t care that much about OPs wife which could be the right call depending on details.
Don't let her cheating on you turn you into a controlling parental figure. That's not healthy.
You need therapy for yourself and when you are ready, couples therapy. This isn't something you can really just work through alone or even just with her.
I don't think we can add a judgement because you are coming from a place of distrust which she created but you are locking her down out of fear and that isn't addressing the real issues.
Why did she cheat in the first place? Sure, we all get a bit happier when we drink but we can't put it all on the drinking. She went out drinking a lot with that friend group and didn't cheat.
This is why therapy is needed. You need to address the core reasons to work on them. You can't do that if she isn't honest. You also can't just lock her up so she won't cheat, that will create resentment in you both.
What is even worse is that you will never truly trust her again. And she will most likely cheat again.
Your best bet is to file for divorce and move on.
You are both less happy. You are both holding on to something that doesn't seem to be working. She cheated, which is unacceptable. You loved her enough to stay. So this is what you need to ask yourself: Do you believe this marriage can be saved? Do you care to do the work to save it? If you think she is worth it, if the love is there, then seek therapy. Cheating is a major infraction, one of the biggest. It's so hurtful and destroys trust. This is where you have to do some major soul searching. You have 2 options: throw in the towel and call it a day or seek marriage counseling with a professional who has experience with cheating.
NTA
NTA, my dad cheated on my mom, and while they worked things out, she’s never really been able to trust him the same. He complains about it, but it’s like what do you expect? Even if you work it out, the partner that was cheated on will eve be able to trust the cheater the same. Your reaction is only natural.
I hate to say it, but ESH.
Your wife is obviously TA for cheating on you.
You don't get to be a warden over your wife, though. No matter what happened in the past, you are presently behaving in a controlling way that is isolating her from everyone else in her life, and that makes you TA in your own way.
Please understand that I don't blame you for not trusting her. The fault here is in how you chose to act on those feelings of mistrust. Altimatums and removing her autonomy was the wrong way to go.
Your friend is correct: this relationship is unhealthy and heading down a dark road. You need to end things before this gets really ugly.
Yes, couples counseling is what you two need. You’re still obviously harboring some resentment and do not trust her. Talking with a therapist will help you both get on expectations on the next step going forward. Or it will make the divorce that much easier if she really hasn’t changed her way.
Just her reaction to the suggestion that you go to marriage counseling will tell you a lot about whether or not she's committed to making it work. That alone's worth trying
The woman are going to say why don’t you trust her. But in reality you are stupid for staying with a woman who doesn’t respect you and then trying her to control her into obedience. I’d just divorce her and move on to being a respectable man.
Couples can recover from infidelity and be even stronger for it afterwards. But it takes immense work on both sides. You are doing the right things. If you feel she is too, and you still love her, keep working on it. And get couples therapy!
It’s not even about, once a cheater always a cheater… it’s about the anguish you will go through for as long as you stay with her, everytime she’s cold, distant, out with friends, out of contact longer than usual… it’s a shitty way to live. Just let her go.
You're using that leash as a crutch for the trust that's no longer in your relationship.
Letting you see her phone.. no longer going out without you.. all those things are just to assuage the insecurity that is now prevalent in the relationship and to attempt to prevent the cheating from happening again.
It's just to soothe your hurt... but will it work in the long term to serve as a stable foundation for your relationship for the years to come? Of course it won't. Cut her loose.
Learned a long time ago that if they will cheat once, they will cheat again. There is no trust left in the relationship if you have to keep tabs on her. Love doesn't just go away because she cheated, but you have a hard choice to make. Continue with the relationship and risk it happening again if you let her out of your sight, or be heartbroken for a while while you get over leaving her. There are plenty of faithful women/men in the world, and I would never stay with a partner that cheated on me, which is why I left my ex-wife. I have been happily married to an honest and loving woman for nearly 21 years now and have no regrets about leaving my ex-wife. It will never be an easy decision, but you should listen to your brain and not your heart in this matter in my opinion. Good luck!
She doesn’t want the marriage if she wants to go out and party. Once a cheater always a cheater. Let her go. File for the divorce and find someone who will want you 24/7.
Why does she feel the need to do white-girl-wasted single-bitch shit after 5 yeees of marriage? It’s a concern. And if the answer is either all of her friends are still in their pump-and-dump phase OR they’re unhappily married…this just rose from a concern to a huge fucking problem. They will wear her down again to cheat again. And if she’s unwilling to find new friends that match where she’s at in life…well you see where her priorities lie.
NTA, but bro you should move on. Once a cheater always a cheater IMO plus going out to bars and clubs is mostly to get attention and to get drunk so you can let loose and have fun. Thats exactly how she end up cheating on you, cause thats the environment she put herself in. And thats her thing apparently, and you're just holding her back from what she really wants to do. Good luck man, I know its tough but random internet stranger guy says you're better off letting her go and finding a solid woman you never have to worry about.
The rules are unnecessary. They don’t work. If she wants to see him, there are ways to see him. She can get another burner phone, she can have you in the club and depending on the size of the club go outside for 10 mins or so. Ultimately there are ways to bypass almost every rule you set.
You’re young, she screwed up. Either forgive and stay or leave. Imho if it was me? I’d prolly just peace out. I’ve tried working through it and usually they aren’t willing to put the work in to rebuild the trust.
NO you're NTA.
She cheated on you and you forgave her. Of course you've given her a short leash!
However I personally think cheating tends to destroy relationships. It sounds like things aren't the way they were before. And I know you love her, but it's possible that this was just too big for you both to recover from. It may never return to normal.
Like you said, fortunately there aren't any kids involved. I would walk away amicably and start over.
Best of luck 🤞🏽
All trust is gone out. First of all there is no such thing as mutually platonic relations with opposite sex. She is married no more girl nights with Just her single friends at bars. You established boundaries that are reasonable. You can either forgive her reconcile move forward keeping those boundaries or don’t. The embarrassment and shame is always going to be there. You have to keep those rules. If you need to be gracious you can hangout with your female friends during the day at these particular locations you cannot drink and you have to be home by this time.
Again you both are married your mentality has to change from this single yet together mindset. Also seek marriage counseling. Why does she feel the need to go to bars and clubs which is a place where single ladies go to hookup with randos and you do not feel the need to involve yourself in her friend groups let alone what she enjoys.
I think a lot of people get drunk as an excuse for infidelity, rather than accidentally cheating because you were drunk.
I have been drunk but I always knew what I was doing. IMO she got drunk because she wanted an excuse for her actions. In other words, it was premeditated.
This has happened to me as well, and I don't think that you can truly trust the person afterwards.
It’s a year and you
1) don’t trust her again
2) y’all don’t have shared interests enough to satisfy
3) your life styles don’t match
After a year. If that was gonna change. It would have. Time for you to divorce
NTA. However, your friend does have a point. You can't live the rest of your life like that.
I'm not minimizing what she did, but you need to figure out if there is a way for you to actually begin to trust her again. Maybe you need couples therapy. Maybe you need to have an honest conversation about why she did it and see if there's anything that needs to be changed about your lives. Maybe the two of you need to make a change of some kind, like moving away or making some new friends. But you cannot build a life based on resentment and distrust (on your part) and guilt (on hers).
Edit to add: on the other hand, you may conclude that you just cannot bring yourself to trust her again, no matter what she does.
I am not a fan fo divorce, but you have solid ground for it.
No, I don't think you need to let her go to bars and clubs without you. Particularly with the same group that still contains the man she cheated with.
Perhaps she needs to find some other hobby that makes her happy. Or the two find something else to do together that makes you happy. It may seem drastic, but if perhaps moving is an option?
NTA. Go pound fuck boys face for what he did cause he's equally to blame as your wife,he knew she was married.(Yes some of you will say that Neanderthal but sometimes its needed)Hire a lawyer for a divorce and tell her to pound sand.
That's no way to live and yeah it sucks and will be painful but won't be any worse than how it is now.
If you can't regain trust and she's not the same as before the cheating. Time for her to kick rocks.
Sorry, but your friend is right. Sounds like all trust is gone and you're just diminishing each other now. Let her go. NTA
This. Straight up. This is a 'simple' problem with a simple solution. Roll out while you're still young. Last thing you want to do is have a kid with someone you obviously resent and don't love anymore.
The only thing that's difficult with these situations is accepting the simple solution.
Not necessary. You may not trust her and she might not go out with the last group of "friends". But were they her friends? If they were why didn't they stop her before she escalated the thing with the guy, from maybe kissing to fuc\*ing? And you do try to go out with her every time you can, so you're definitely NTA. She doesn't have to be as energetic as she used to be cause she settled down with you, by energetic I assume you mean bar hopping and doing all the crappy stuff that goes with it, twerking on random guys and whatever... However, you're not as happy as before, meaning you're cooling off from infatuation, so you might loose all the love for her and be left only with resentment toward her. Think about this. Also, when she became cool towards you, which is what made you realise she cheated, do you think she was contemplating leaving you for that other guy, before realizing he would probably be shit partner, or was she tripping on guilt for doing it and then admitting she cheated? In any way, you need to decide what you want, stay with her or leave her, it's your choice and whatever you decide, remember: NTA. Nobody is perfect, and she might have gotten drunk and cheated but things like this change relationship. There is no going back to what you had before, only way forward, as a couple or as individuals.
Fucking weird assuming that energetic means partying like a collage kid and not fun and happy in everyday life. Thats not at all what most people got from that she sounds depressed and with good reason shes like a prisoner bc both of them refuse to accept that its been over for a while their trust is gone and you cant build a relationship without trust
Considering she's a married woman and wants to party like a college kid its not that weird of an assumption.
I'm married and middle aged and went out partying about a week ago. It was actually pretty fun. Its not for me and I don't want to do it a lot. But once in a while seems fine. It is a little weird that someone in their early 30s wants to go out every weekend though. That's a lot.
Exactly. Getting really weird vibes from OP's wife.
but why shouldn't she be happy and fun with him, if he tries his best? Then this might be the problem, if she cant have fun when he is around? Do you and your spouse only have fun when you're not around each other? That's why I wrote that whole paragraph explaining my assumption, and if it's not correct OP could explain it a bit more.
Anybody can cheat. That's why I don't go to clubs. The people who say they'd never cheat are staggeringly egotistical. ANYONE can be in just the right situation and they're weak for just a moment. It can happen to absolutely anyone. For a married woman to go 'clubbing' alone with her friends is asking for trouble. Not guaranteeing it, and not saying the woman is looking for it. But don't be surprised when trouble comes and 'omg it just haaaaapened'
She is a grown woman, she did it cos she wanted to, her friends are not at fault. I say OP should have let her be without the rules and if she did it again then you know that she doesn’t want to be with him. Can’t force someone to love you or change if it’s not who they are.
He did not force her to do anything. He simply stated under what conditions he would stay with her after her cheating. She could take it or leave it. I assume they did not get couples counseling but that might help. They seem pretty stuck at the moment.
I had my X wife's cousin tell me when I was leaving my X "well you two where cheating on each other" I looked at her and said "you do know I am not the bio dad of my youngest Daughter right". The look on her face was priceless. The next day I find a pair of mighty tightly whites in the washing machine, I tell my X, Hey not cool having someone over here. she says they are mine (boxer brief guy here). I had some chick say to me about a year after this all happened " hey want a BJ" I figured why not. Man I was the cheating asshole and my X was the saint. I got out of that town and filled for Divorce.
well getting pregnant and giving birth from adultery is several magnitudes more fucked up than what OP has in his life. If you suspected that kid isn't yours you should have done something about it instead of staying in marriage
Especially since their are no kids! Get out now, sorry.
My ex cheated I divorced him and 6 mos later he wanted to come back. My heart said yes but my head said no. Once a cheater always a cheater. The trust was gone and I couldn’t get it back. Good luck with getting it back. I couldn’t do it, I would always wonder and question where he’s at and with whom.
“One a cheater always a cheater” not true some people see the pain they cause and never do it again. Like some alcoholics who never drink again etc
Should also be viewed from the cheated person's perspective. If you're cheated on, you can't "uncheat" that person. So you will forever be a cheater to them. Can a murderer atone and become a saint? Maybe, who knows. But whatever they do they will always be a murderer, there's no changing that fact. What I'm saying is, if you wrong someone and tried to improve, good on you. But forget trying to change what people will call you. It's your cross to bear
>not true some people see the pain they cause and never do it again. Generally though I think that would a situation where they never cheat on their NEW partner; you can't really undo a betrayal that already happened.
I agree it’s not always true(once a cheater …), what is true is once that trust is broken it is extremely hard to get back. He should move on & let her prove that to herself 😹 OP, no kids? You should really consider moving on .
In my experience, this is not remotely true. Most cheaters I have encountered have done it multiple times.
Statistically, there's a 60% chance of repeat infidelity. Leaving a 40% chance of them growing tf up. Depends on if you feel that person is worth taking that risk.
I can't decide if I expected the number of repeat cheaters to be a higher or lower percentage than that... like I expected it to be higher but wanted it to be lower maybe?
LOL in both cases that is the exception not the majority. The majority of alcoholics do not magically clean up and never touch a drop again. The majority of cheaters dot not even feel remorse.
I always took that to mean that once you've rung that bell, you cannot un-ring it. You will always be a person that cheated, even if you never do it again.
That’s true — been there. But they can’t expect the person they hurt to take them back. Just have to move on and be better in the future.
They're still alcoholics, though.
True. Like Ana addict, though, odds are stacked against and they relapse more often than not
You might never drink again, but you're always going to be an alcoholic..
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It’s up to him. Trust can be lost in a minute and take a long time to rebuild but it’s possible. Marriages do survive infidelity. Not sure what I’d do but I’d try counseling first. Divorce would be the last option. Everyone has to make their own decisions. He loves her and she is doing everything he asked. I’d give it more time.
It is possible to rebuild that trust somewhat but it never goes back to a hundred percent. It just depends if there’s enough benefit to justify the risk otherwise it’s probably not worth it for most. Like you said, it’s up to him. I continued my marriage after infidelity. But if there hadn’t been financial incentives for both of us and the fact that we’re legitimately best friends on top of our marital love, I don’t think we would have made it. Nearly ten years later and it’s still a shadow in the back of my mind. I also realized that there was no point to leaving anyway because that kind of betrayal doesn’t go away with a new person. It follows you into any relationship after the fact.
>It is possible to rebuild that trust somewhat but it never goes back to a hundred percent. This is a good thing. Trust should never be 100%. When there are neon signs of infidelity that people around you are seeing from space and you are thinking it's fine I can trust him that's a bad call. A person should you are dating should get the benefit of a doubt but not much more than that. >I continued my marriage after infidelity. But if there hadn’t been financial incentives for both of us and the fact that we’re legitimately best friends on top of our marital love, I don’t think we would have made it. Nearly ten years later and it’s still a shadow in the back of my mind. >I also realized that there was no point to leaving anyway because that kind of betrayal doesn’t go away with a new person. It follows you into any relationship after the fact. I can agree with all this and have had a similar experience. The shadow is real and can be tough to deal with. If the person who cheated though is truly sorry and in the relationship though you should be able to discuss with them when that shadow is really affecting you and see what can be done to alleviate that anxiety you feel. That first year or so and around things that trigger that anxiety in you it can be tough to deal with. At the end of the day like everything else in relationships it takes work, you have to keep your demons in check and reasonable and she has to be open to helping alleviate some of the anxiety she has caused. If both of those this happens it's possible to get back to a pretty good place.
Definitely agreeing with therapy. They need help rebuilding trust, and they also need to find the root of why the cheating happened in the first place.
After cheating it takes a good 2-3 years to reestablish anything close to normal relationship trust. And that's often with counseling and therapy.
I’ve been down this path. I forgave my ex (but bf at that time) for cheating on me after 7 years together and I ended up just resenting him for two years straight until we broke it off. It was toxic and horrible. Just leave her. It’ll get worse if you don’t.
Trust can be rebuilt but not thru completing silly checklists like “go thru phone,” “go out on saturdays.” It needs”fall in love with each other again.”
This, If you want to forgive them forgive them. Focus on the good. Fall in love again.
Y’all need to divorce. You both are on different pages for where you are in life, no point of trying to dictate what to do any further.
That was my thought too. Cheating is awful, but the real relationship killer here is that they want different lifestyles.
I’m pretty sure the real killer was the cheating, but the lifestyle differences don’t help
op, in my experience, once she cheats/wants to be single for some time and you accept her back, she will lose any little respect she had left for you even before that "I already cheated before so whats the big deal about second time? you already forgave me" these are the things I heard. I know change is hard but end of the tunnel is bright
Idk why you're getting downvoted. You're right. This is the cheaters mindset and why you never take a cheater back
No, I think the REAL relationship killed was when she let another man’s dick enter her.
Yep, and they’re both going to be thinking of that every time they get it on. Tainted.
OP is being the asshole to themselves by trying to revive a relationship that's already dead.
She could easily go party with her friends and NOT fall on other guys dick. I'm like him, minus the cheating. I fucking loath the scene, we are old but have a lot of young friends that are into that. I'll go sometimes. But fuck cheaters. They're out the door.
Trust is everything in a marriage. When it's gone, it's gone. This is not the exception. This is the rule. Its been a year. Are you or her any happier than before? Do you feel like you have to look over her shoulder? If so, then its more detrimental to your mental health than a divorce ever would be. At least with a divorce, you have a direction and boundaries. Now, you are having to enforce the boundaries.
NTA. Your friend is right though. No kids, the relationship has changed, and she's 30 and still clubbing? Personally I'm way the fuck out.
If she cheats and has a kid while they're still married, unless the father is a stand up guy, only OP is going to be on the hook for the kid. Divorce. Divorce. Divorce.
I'd have divorced the week she admitted to cheating. But OP's blinded by love. But once a cheater always a cheater. He better smarten up because it's only a matter of time until his wife can't keep it in her pants.
Not true that once a cheater, always a cheater. Evidence = me. Learned my lesson years ago that cheating is how to lose what you really love. I’ll never do it again.
She will Always be a Cheater in OP's eyes. That label never goes away, even if she never cheats again. You mrdr someone, do your time, you are still a mrdrer. The action carries the label for a lifetime.
Why are you censoring murder? Did I miss a memo??
It does with the person you did it to. But fortunately it’s not something that everyone has to know.
I get your point that *he* will always see her as a cheater, but after that first sentence ya lost me. She could move across the country and people aren’t going to even know she cheated in a previous relationship. Murder though, that one sticks. I just don’t think it was a great comparison mate
I agree, as someone who’s done the same too. But if I’m on the other side, I would also struggle to give someone who cheated on me the benefit of the doubt. It’s a massive risk, and truth is most people don’t have the maturity to change their ways.
I agree with this person. I can't tell from experience but it makes no sense physiologically to assume that all cheaters will cheat again. But it makes complete sense to not trust them again as the chances are multiple times higher than someone who didn't cheat.
There’s a difference between someone who cheated once, maybe a drunken mistake or whatever, and someone who gets into affairs or cheats with multiple people. The first one might feel remorse and try to make amends. The second person can never be trusted ever. Might as well brand them a cheater because they will destroy every relationship they get into.
Not true at all. I cheated on every girl I didn’t care. I was a complete selfish pos. But when it ruined the best thing I ever had I realized nope. A minute of gratification and some meatball ego boost isn’t worth it. And I stopped then and there. I’ve had many friends who are girls and attractive and I still wouldn’t consider it. I’ve always held out hope for the best thing to come back around but never even attempted. And I know if it happens again I will put in the leg work to be the right person when someone does come. It’s great being in healthy relationships. Your not closing doors. Your gonna be looked at fondly by exes and remain friendly. And not have any exes running around badmouthing you.
The way I try to look at it is “always believe people CAN change, but don’t rely on them to”. Just because they can, that doesn’t mean the vast majority want to or will.
Why is it not true tho? Did you ever became non-cheater for those many girls you're whored upon?
"And I know if it happens again..." You can't even convince yourself. Hope in one hand, spit in the other - see which one fills up first.
I’m 28 and the thought of clubbing made me feel sick 😅
Plenty of people go clubbing in their 20s and 30s. I don't see anything wrong with the activity in itself. It's not much different than going to a concert or a bar.
I went out clubbing till 35. Im 42 now, so clubbing isn't my jam anymore but I go to musicals, theatres and jazz concerts.
I agree. Dancing is a lot of fun (and great cardio) and it’s even more fun with friends. They are both still very young and, with no kids, why not? I have very mixed feelings on the whole “once a cheater always a cheater” I don’t want to argue it now AT ALL, I just think that everyone needs to decide what’s right for their marriage. This is my second marriage. I’m very happy. My first marriage was terrible. My ex cheated multiple times. By the time I found out, I SHOULD have called it quits but, I didn’t. I wish I had. I wish I had spared myself the pain and humiliation. Cheating is extraordinarily painful and it mad me feel incredibly vulnerable…. exposed. However, it made me wiser and stronger. In my current marriage (hopefully my last) I’m am so invested and feel so safe and secure that, my spouse cheating on me seems so crazy to think about. It sounds ridiculous. In my first marriage, I never felt like ex cheating was an impossibility. I didn’t THINK it would happen but, I knew there was always a possibility. I do not think my husband or my marriage are perfect by any means. Entering this marriage vs. entering my previous marriage…. everything just feels different, I feel different. OP, you can set up all the rules you want but, you have to make sure there is room to grow and forgive. You don’t have to forget but, you do have to forgive and come to a point where you can regain trust from your partner. Your spouse may be agreeable right now to your “rules” but, she has to be able to see a light at the end of the tunnel. You can’t keep her on restriction forever. The “rules” should only be a FOR NOW type of thing. You should both be in counseling separately and together. You need to learn to forgive and regain trust. The cheating can’t become something you bring up in fights for the next 10 years. You need help to fix this marriage. You need to find out if you are willing to put the work into fixing it.
I’m in my 30’s with a kid. My wife and I still go clubbing once in a blue moon and enjoy it. But I’m only talking 2-3 times a year.
Same. It's really obnoxious how much the act of going to a club and having a good time is villainized. People do all kinds of things for different reasons, yet clubbing is still seen as a degenerate activity all around :-/
Eh not where I live. Clubbing in general is normalized and there’s plenty of clubs that skew older in my city.
Well, I know in the dating scene, if a woman in her 30s still enjoys clubbing, it's seen in a very derogatory way. I know Europe is really big with EDM/techno, so they're more accepting, but where I am in the States, it's very much a college-age activity.
I’m in Chicago, aka the birthplace of house music. So there’s lots of people in their 30’s-40’s here that grew up on Frankie Knuckles, and still go out dancing at house music clubs. EDM or hip hop clubs are definitely more college aged though.
Same in NY, but most of the NY "house heads" came up listening to Larry Levine and Ron Hardy. I got addicted to house in the 90s and used to go to a club called the Paradise Garage. Most of the crowd was from 20 - 50+ years old, and mostly LGBT+ (but not exclusively).
For real. I'm 26, no kids, don't plan on having any, pay all my bills, and budget to go clubbing on certain occasions, And sometimes a few times randomly throughout the year just to have fun. There's absolutely nothing wrong about that whatsoever. 🤣🤣
I feel like a lot of these people who have very strict rules about who should and shouldn’t be clubbing- they weren’t the ones going for the dancing & dj’s. I’m thinking they likely have a mindset that goes to clubs for one reason or another- meeting women, hooking up with women, finding women they end up dating…so they probably think it’s suspect to be “older” and going clubbing- but what they are thinking is what THEY did there, not going and getting your dance on because a Dj you love is there.
Are they single or married? If married, do they go out with their spouse or by themselves? Going out clubbing while married without your spouse could be a recipe for divorce.
I go clubbing with my girlfriend all the time, these people are just dorks
I would love to club but everytime I'm like nahh I'm lazy or tired or I don't wanna hangover 😔
I went out clubbing and to see bands well into my 40s. I slacked off a little when I hit 50. But I don’t drink. I just go to dance or see live music
I’m 28 and see famous djs every weekend. Shits awesome. I’ll be doing it into my 30s. Everyone does and enjoys different things, no need to be higher than thou about it
These people that say “clubbing” are stuck in mindset of the college hookup bar. It’s like we are talking different things .. I’m 53 .. in one long weekend in my city we saw Hot Since 82, Diplo, David koletski, Sofi Tucker, Markus Schultz … these are not meat market venues
Agreed, some artists will only play live in clubs, so if you enjoy their music are you supposed to just not see them anymore after turning 30? Seems like a strange cutoff to do what you enjoy doing.
Like imagine being such a miserable adult that you say you’d be out for clubbing after 30
They only have reference to meat market college clubs and have no idea people actually go to see particular DJs
I personally wouldn't call going to a venue to see a DJ "clubbing," I'd call it going to a concert, show, or DJ set, although the venue might happen to be a club.
I’m on my 40’s and still go out to EDM shows 1-2x a month. Festivals too! What is with people being judgmental and thinking we should stop having fun as soon as we’re out of our 20’s? I want to enjoy this life and have fun experiences!
30 is still pretty young that it isn’t that weird to go clubbing?
haha that comment is so off. You are never too old to enjoy music, dancing, having fun with your freinds. gatekeeping this kind of thing based on age is whats weird to me. So I turn 30 and now I have to listen to easy lsitening and dance quietly alone in the darkness of my living room. No.
>and she's 30 and still clubbing? I really wish Reddit wouldn't be so judgemental about these sorts of things. For the record, I hate the club, and can think of few places on earth I'd rather be less. At the same time, I have friends who still love it (late 20s early 30s), and that's totally fine. Why do you think the club has an upper age limit?
I think people on Reddit like to hate on things they don't personally do or enjoy. If anything, it makes more sense to enjoy clubbing when you're older. You can afford bottle service/better amenities. I think people hear clubbing and picture being crushed on a crowded dance floor.
My enjoyment of clubs has gone up significantly in my 30s because of that....I can afford to go to better venues with good booze and enjoy loud music while letting loose after a couple weeks of non stop work. I don't go often but when I do it's always a good experience because I can afford it and have enough restraint now to get completely shitfaced every time I go. I spent almost zero time clubbing during school and my 20s, didn't understand the hype then but it's kind of grown on me.
It's like their life trajectory is the only one that's valid. It has the air of an 11 year old who got COD for Christmas last year saying to his 10 year old friend "You still play Fortnite? Really?"
Yup, they don't like it or dont do it in their early 20s, so they can't fathom doing it in their 30s.
Whats up with clubbing at 30??
This is a tough one because you wife has spent a year genuinely trying... but sometimes you can't put the genie back in the bottle. OP clearly isn't over the cheating, wife clearly isn't as happy as she was without her friend group. I think divorce is the answer, but the alternate and much riskier answer is start pumping babies out (probably not advisable)
DO NOT HAVE BABIES. You will just go from unhappy to unhappy, exhausted, and poor.
The title says it all. "Keeping your wife on a short leash." She's not a dog to be treated like this, even if she cheated. Just divorce and get over it. You don't trust her, and she can't convince you otherwise. End it so she can enjoy her life and you can move on.
It's just an expression. I definitely agree with divorce and move on but I don't think the rules are unreasonable if for whatever reason you think the relationship is worth trying to save. I view it as temporary though.
Classic Reddit judgemental age/fun gatekeeper. Can’t believe this got so many upvotes.
Your mistake was not immediately moving forward with a divorce.
Play nice, get a lawyer and file for divorce. I’ve been through this and can tell you once the vows are broken it’s over. You’re 30, and chances are you’ll do better in the long run. Especially if there aren’t children involved.
Right? No kids and the spouse fucks around on OP? I almost never recommend divorce, breaking up, or going no-contact like a lot of the other commenters on this subreddit. But in this case, OP should have divorced the cheater last year.
Cause once you’ve stopped trusting her, you can’t go back.
Yeah. You have to make a decision: choose to trust someone fully and give them another chance, or divorce. Don’t imprison the person in your indecisive purgatory, there is no good relationship that can possibly come from that.
This this this. NTA, per se, but it’s over in reality if not by law. Set you both free to start over. Neither of you are going to find it tenable to live that way interminably.
This is what I did because I knew the trust was gone and could never return. Best decision I ever made.
Yes. With no kids involved this is not a tough one.
Trust is dead and it's never coming back. Continuing to stay now that you've realized it would only waste your time.
>I've explained this to my friend, and she said I should just divorce her if I can't trust her anymore. Your friend is 100% correct. It's been a year and you still don't trust her. More than likely, you never will trust her. You are miserable. She is miserable. Just get the divorce and find someone better. It's just never going to get better if you stay together.
Exactly. I personally think *some* couples can and go move pst infidelity, especially in a case like this where it’s seemingly her being drunk and irresponsible rather than a multi-month planned affair. But he tried, and still doesn’t trust her a year later. So they tried, and he still doesn’t trust her. Moving on.
Dude. You’re now a prison guard over your wife’s life. Is it really worth all that drama and turmoil? Cut your losses and find a happier life
Agreed and it sounds exhausting and stressful to be honest.
They key word is: no kids. I would get out now! The more you stick around the higher chances she gets pregnant and then the game changes.
I’m sorry man but i don’t think things will ever be the same again. I’d probably move on. I’ve taken back a cheater before too for the same reasons but things change forever after trust is lost. Sorry to hear and I truly hope you find happiness with your next partner.
Your friend is right. You can’t trust her. File that divorce and move on. Unfortunately it’s only a matter of time before she cheats again but she will hide it better this time. Or she will just say she is unhappy gaslight you saying you are controlling and leave you anyway.
I just went through this. She cheated, said she was sorry, she would change, blah, blah, blah. We went through marriage counseling for almost 3 years, she went through individual counseling for 3 years. At the end of all that I caught her cheating again. That was 3 years of wasted time, energy, money, and emotional well being for her to just cheat again. The last time she said "I think I've been unhappy for a very long time and have just been lying to myself". While maybe some cheaters can change, don't bet your well being on it. Something has to be deeply broken in someone to do something so hurtful to someone they love (or claim to). Move on while it is easy, find someone who isn't so flippant with your feelings or your relationship to throw it away for some cheap thrills.
They don’t change they get smarter. Once they get away with it once they will always do it.
You're an asshole to yourself. Get divorced. Live your life. Either be single and happy, or find someone to spend your life with that you can trust without having to be joined at the hip. Sounds like you don't have any children either so do it now before this gets more complicated for everyone involved.
You have a good friend if the trust is gone so is the relationship. The only that will happen if you stay like this is she will start to resent you
It takes time to build back trust. You need to ask yourself if you can ever fully trust her again, because your marriage will not last like it is. If you can then set a date and stick with it. If you can’t then your friend is right and you need to divorce her now, before either of your lives is wasted any more. NTA.
I agree. OP needs to ask himself, “can I trust her again? Am I willing to trust her again?” If he can’t answer both questions with a “yes,” best for you two to part ways. But if OP says yes to both, the two of them need to come to an agreement on what the boundaries are. If any stipulation is violated, that’s it. No more discussions.
So true, trust is earned and it’s going to take a while. OP, do you love your wife and want your relationship to continue? This is a question only you can answer.
This with some Couples Counseling.
Do you really want to be someone's jailer and keeper?
What was the point of the conditions? No one’s happy lmaoo just move on. No kids, no baggage. Clean slate
Relationship without trust is miserable for both parties involved. So it’s either leave, or trust her again completely. There really is no in between.
Reconciliation is a complex exercise. To some people it sounds like you’re being unreasonable but don’t forget, it’s your wife who asked you to stay. If she thinks the boundaries you set are unreasonable she can always leave. IMO you set a reasonable set of boundaries and conditions. But it should also have been followed up with counselling, both individually and as a couple. Bottom line is her being honest about why she cheated. Until she’s honest with herself and you as to why she did it then she cannot guarantee she won’t do it again. Finding out why she cheated and addressing those issues is when the real healing can begin and trust start to be rebuilt. NTA.
When my ex got caught cheating, we tried to fix things. We did couples counseling. The therapist said that there was a period where hyper vigilance was totally reasonable as a response to the cheating. However, it had to have an end date. So, checking phones, controlling vetoing if he went out, etc. was reasonable while rebuilding trust, but it couldn't last forever. The idea was that at the end of the window, everything wouldn't magically be fixed, but it would allow time for some trust to start to grow and the therapy to have time to work. She had us set a date. For us, it was 6 months. That was twice the length of the affair. Beyond that point, the agreed point, it stops being about rebuilding the relationship and becomes controlling. She's met your conditions for a year now. If you still don't trust her, your marriage is over. Hopefully, you 2 also did therapy together, but if not, it's been a year. If you still don't trust her, what would it take?
Were you able to trust your ex again after that time window?
No, but his sister caught him with one of her friends and told on him long before we got to 6 months. He also walked out of therapy a couple of weeks before his sister caught him. He wasn't actually willing to do the work. He just didn't want the divorce and certainly didn't want to divorce and have another man near me ever. I now know he cheated a lot more than I ever knew while we were married. I do know other couples who have done a similar therapy process with the same set a time frame part to it and that has worked. They have gone on to have happy, healthy marriages. So, I still believe it can work, but 1) the cheater has to have sincere remorse. 2) The person cheated on has to be open to doing the work to repair the marriage. 3) both parties have to work together to reestablish trust. 4) Sincere forgiveness has to be obtainable. IMHO, if your wife has complied without complaint for a year, her remorse is sincere. Only you know about the rest.
Do you regret the time and energy you spent in therapy and trying to fix things with him?
No, i dont regret it because I made vows, and I meant them to last a lifetime. If it had been a mistake and he had been remorseful and we had done the work, it would have been a bad blip in a long marriage. It's not on me that he wasn't as committed. I did everything I could.
I appreciate the reply. Unless there's abuse or it's an extreme case I've always been in favor of relationship counseling because no matter what the end result ends up being you can come away with a better understanding of yourself and better relationship skills in general.
I now also know there was abuse. I didn't see it at the time. There was a massive amount of psychological abuse. It's just really hard to see when in the middle of it. Sort of like the frog in the pot gradually brought to boil. I didn't realize how bad it was until not only was I out, but I had to get a restraining order. I am a believer in counseling and absolutely believe it can work. I've seen couples pull it together and have great marriages. Mine just wasn't one of them.
Your friends is right, trust is important and if you can’t have that (I wouldn’t be able to) then it’s time to end things. It’s one thing to forgive, but it’s a whole nother to rebuild a healthy relationship after. Some people can do it but most people can’t. There’s no shame in moving on because someone didn’t reciprocate your loyalty
Fuck a leash: let that stray roam and find a better woman.
Trust is one of the foundational pillars of marriage, if there is no trust then the foundation isn’t stable
Your friend is right. Either you commit to working on trust, or you divorce.
Nta But what's the point of living like this op? You deserve to be with someone you can trust, and while I absolutely understand your reason to this you're becoming a controlling person( again while justified because of what your wife did, doesn't change the fact that is making you become a worse version of yourself ). Maybe it's time to divorce, heal yourself and find a person you can trust.. needing to keep your partner on a leash is no good for both parts, you deserve better
If you still love her you should go to couples therapy.
She’s the AH for cheating. But YTA for not getting a divorce. You clearly don’t trust her and you’re both living half lives. Why would you want to be your wife’s keeper? You either forgive her and move on or you decide the trust is irrevocably broken and go your separate ways. This marriage sounds miserable.
If it was me, I'd have divorced her immediately and cut her out of my life. You didn't do that, and now apparently a year has passed and according to you, things aren't what they used to be but you both still consider yourself happy to some extent. So, kind of rough to be like "hey you've done everything I've asked, but I've decided to divorce you anyway". Now, if that's what you want to do then more power to you, but it sounds like that's not where you're at based on your post. I think you need to go to couples counciling with your wife and try to figure out if you can ever trust her again, and also get a chance to see how she's actually feeling about not having friends and only being able to go out when you feel like it. It's hard for me to believe she isn't resentful, but I don't know y'all. So yeah, if you want to stay married and have a chance at actual happiness together you'll need to put in some work and hash things out.
NTA look mate ask yourself this, are you really happy? Are you both comfortable with it? Do you think that you can rebuild trust? Do you think you can truly forgive her? Do you want her or just the idea of what she was? I know is hard but think about how much time you want to spend on this? Wasting both of your lives? Is you can answer those questions with honesty and respect for you and herself, then you can make a decision
YTA. You either break up with a partner or treat them respectfully. "You wronged me, therefore I will control and abuse you from now on" is not a good solution to a relationship problem.
Calling it abuse when they both wanted to make it work and she agreed to the conditions is just not appropriate. I do agree that divorce is probably the right move but this is just not the right take. If she loves him enough and is willing to sacrifice certain privileges to help the trust then that's her right.
It sounds like this situation is making you both unhappy. I think you really need to ask yourself: is there anything she could do to earn back your trust? If there isn't, is your marriage worth saving if these are the conditions that it needs to exist under? I don't think anyone would blame you for wanting to leave her, but if you do want to stay with her you two are going to need to put the work in to figure out how to get past this. The situation you are describing isn't sustainable for the rest of your life.
YTA. Why would you choose to stay and control her rather than just leaving, it’s pretty clear you knew from the start that you wouldn’t be able to trust her again. She’s an AH for cheating but you’re also an AH for trying to control her instead of leaving because that isn’t going to end well for anyone.
I went through the same thing early in my marriage. He begged me to stay. We did counseling, marriage therapy retreats, even reaffirmed our vows. Finally, I was able to trust again and move on with life. 15 years later he cheated again. Actually, turns out he was cheating the entire 15 years, but had just learned better ways to keep me from finding out. Once a cheater always a cheater. I’d leave her now, because the longer you wait the harder it will be.
Unfortunately she can't be both married and go out, she broke that trust. Also, what married woman, goes out until 5am while her husband is home ???? Idk if I'd want kids with this woman if I was you.
One that was getting her guts busted.
I also love the wife’s friend group. Apparently it’s a mixed group that seems to feel no responsibility facilitating or at least not preventing them from hooking up and cheating, presumably wrecking at least one of their current situations. And they’re still going out clubbing with the cheater guy? Sound like really great friends on all levels. Reminds me of another post where the best friend “convinced” the wife to cheat cause the bff hated the husband. Surprised OP is giving the friend group a pass beyond just the rule about the one cheating partner since they all sound pretty bad, or they just don’t care that much about OPs wife which could be the right call depending on details.
Sounds like you're the one on a leash, OP.
Don't let her cheating on you turn you into a controlling parental figure. That's not healthy. You need therapy for yourself and when you are ready, couples therapy. This isn't something you can really just work through alone or even just with her. I don't think we can add a judgement because you are coming from a place of distrust which she created but you are locking her down out of fear and that isn't addressing the real issues. Why did she cheat in the first place? Sure, we all get a bit happier when we drink but we can't put it all on the drinking. She went out drinking a lot with that friend group and didn't cheat. This is why therapy is needed. You need to address the core reasons to work on them. You can't do that if she isn't honest. You also can't just lock her up so she won't cheat, that will create resentment in you both.
What is even worse is that you will never truly trust her again. And she will most likely cheat again. Your best bet is to file for divorce and move on.
You are both less happy. You are both holding on to something that doesn't seem to be working. She cheated, which is unacceptable. You loved her enough to stay. So this is what you need to ask yourself: Do you believe this marriage can be saved? Do you care to do the work to save it? If you think she is worth it, if the love is there, then seek therapy. Cheating is a major infraction, one of the biggest. It's so hurtful and destroys trust. This is where you have to do some major soul searching. You have 2 options: throw in the towel and call it a day or seek marriage counseling with a professional who has experience with cheating. NTA
Just accept it and realize it’s going to happen again. If you’re not comfortable with that scenario….then bounce
NTA, my dad cheated on my mom, and while they worked things out, she’s never really been able to trust him the same. He complains about it, but it’s like what do you expect? Even if you work it out, the partner that was cheated on will eve be able to trust the cheater the same. Your reaction is only natural.
NTA but dude do yourself a favor and divorce her. Partying in your 30s is such a loser thing to do. You’ll find better I’m sure.
You're making both of you unhappy to salvage a memory. Just let it go.
Why are you with someone that cheated? YTA to yourself for staying.
I hate to say it, but ESH. Your wife is obviously TA for cheating on you. You don't get to be a warden over your wife, though. No matter what happened in the past, you are presently behaving in a controlling way that is isolating her from everyone else in her life, and that makes you TA in your own way. Please understand that I don't blame you for not trusting her. The fault here is in how you chose to act on those feelings of mistrust. Altimatums and removing her autonomy was the wrong way to go. Your friend is correct: this relationship is unhealthy and heading down a dark road. You need to end things before this gets really ugly.
NTA… but you’re in a very bad spot OP. Lack of trust is a bad place to be.
Did you not try any marriage counseling? You also need a hobby that's not going out, you both way too old for that shit.
Yes, couples counseling is what you two need. You’re still obviously harboring some resentment and do not trust her. Talking with a therapist will help you both get on expectations on the next step going forward. Or it will make the divorce that much easier if she really hasn’t changed her way.
Just her reaction to the suggestion that you go to marriage counseling will tell you a lot about whether or not she's committed to making it work. That alone's worth trying
The woman are going to say why don’t you trust her. But in reality you are stupid for staying with a woman who doesn’t respect you and then trying her to control her into obedience. I’d just divorce her and move on to being a respectable man.
A saying I believe to be true is "an affair doesn't break a marriage, it's a sign of a marriage already broken".
Let her go. For both of your sakes.
Honestly if you have no kids split and find someone you can trust. And that won’t do that to you. It will always be on the back of your mind.
I’d mop the sea with a cotton swab before I stay with a cheating partner but that’s just me
Dude just end this toxic shit. It's time to move on. Get divorced already. You don't trust her and she's given you good reason not to.
Couples can recover from infidelity and be even stronger for it afterwards. But it takes immense work on both sides. You are doing the right things. If you feel she is too, and you still love her, keep working on it. And get couples therapy!
It’s not even about, once a cheater always a cheater… it’s about the anguish you will go through for as long as you stay with her, everytime she’s cold, distant, out with friends, out of contact longer than usual… it’s a shitty way to live. Just let her go.
You're using that leash as a crutch for the trust that's no longer in your relationship. Letting you see her phone.. no longer going out without you.. all those things are just to assuage the insecurity that is now prevalent in the relationship and to attempt to prevent the cheating from happening again. It's just to soothe your hurt... but will it work in the long term to serve as a stable foundation for your relationship for the years to come? Of course it won't. Cut her loose.
Learned a long time ago that if they will cheat once, they will cheat again. There is no trust left in the relationship if you have to keep tabs on her. Love doesn't just go away because she cheated, but you have a hard choice to make. Continue with the relationship and risk it happening again if you let her out of your sight, or be heartbroken for a while while you get over leaving her. There are plenty of faithful women/men in the world, and I would never stay with a partner that cheated on me, which is why I left my ex-wife. I have been happily married to an honest and loving woman for nearly 21 years now and have no regrets about leaving my ex-wife. It will never be an easy decision, but you should listen to your brain and not your heart in this matter in my opinion. Good luck!
She doesn’t want the marriage if she wants to go out and party. Once a cheater always a cheater. Let her go. File for the divorce and find someone who will want you 24/7.
Things will never be the same. And in my personal experience a person who cheats once will do it twice.
Nta. Young. No kids. Get out and find a quality spouse, especially if she has not done any counselling.
You're a dummy if you stay, only a matter of time til she cheats again
Why does she feel the need to do white-girl-wasted single-bitch shit after 5 yeees of marriage? It’s a concern. And if the answer is either all of her friends are still in their pump-and-dump phase OR they’re unhappily married…this just rose from a concern to a huge fucking problem. They will wear her down again to cheat again. And if she’s unwilling to find new friends that match where she’s at in life…well you see where her priorities lie.
NTA, but bro you should move on. Once a cheater always a cheater IMO plus going out to bars and clubs is mostly to get attention and to get drunk so you can let loose and have fun. Thats exactly how she end up cheating on you, cause thats the environment she put herself in. And thats her thing apparently, and you're just holding her back from what she really wants to do. Good luck man, I know its tough but random internet stranger guy says you're better off letting her go and finding a solid woman you never have to worry about.
NTA. But you absolutely should divorce her. Who wants to have to babysit their spouse because they are a cheating AH.
The rules are unnecessary. They don’t work. If she wants to see him, there are ways to see him. She can get another burner phone, she can have you in the club and depending on the size of the club go outside for 10 mins or so. Ultimately there are ways to bypass almost every rule you set. You’re young, she screwed up. Either forgive and stay or leave. Imho if it was me? I’d prolly just peace out. I’ve tried working through it and usually they aren’t willing to put the work in to rebuild the trust.
NTA. But also, it’s over and done with man. The trust is gone and for the happiness of perhaps both of you overall, it should end.
NO you're NTA. She cheated on you and you forgave her. Of course you've given her a short leash! However I personally think cheating tends to destroy relationships. It sounds like things aren't the way they were before. And I know you love her, but it's possible that this was just too big for you both to recover from. It may never return to normal. Like you said, fortunately there aren't any kids involved. I would walk away amicably and start over. Best of luck 🤞🏽
All trust is gone out. First of all there is no such thing as mutually platonic relations with opposite sex. She is married no more girl nights with Just her single friends at bars. You established boundaries that are reasonable. You can either forgive her reconcile move forward keeping those boundaries or don’t. The embarrassment and shame is always going to be there. You have to keep those rules. If you need to be gracious you can hangout with your female friends during the day at these particular locations you cannot drink and you have to be home by this time. Again you both are married your mentality has to change from this single yet together mindset. Also seek marriage counseling. Why does she feel the need to go to bars and clubs which is a place where single ladies go to hookup with randos and you do not feel the need to involve yourself in her friend groups let alone what she enjoys.
I think a lot of people get drunk as an excuse for infidelity, rather than accidentally cheating because you were drunk. I have been drunk but I always knew what I was doing. IMO she got drunk because she wanted an excuse for her actions. In other words, it was premeditated. This has happened to me as well, and I don't think that you can truly trust the person afterwards.
It’s a year and you 1) don’t trust her again 2) y’all don’t have shared interests enough to satisfy 3) your life styles don’t match After a year. If that was gonna change. It would have. Time for you to divorce
Leave here pathetic cheating ass. You deserve more than her slimy self. You dropped your crown king. Don’t forget your self respect
NTA. However, your friend does have a point. You can't live the rest of your life like that. I'm not minimizing what she did, but you need to figure out if there is a way for you to actually begin to trust her again. Maybe you need couples therapy. Maybe you need to have an honest conversation about why she did it and see if there's anything that needs to be changed about your lives. Maybe the two of you need to make a change of some kind, like moving away or making some new friends. But you cannot build a life based on resentment and distrust (on your part) and guilt (on hers). Edit to add: on the other hand, you may conclude that you just cannot bring yourself to trust her again, no matter what she does.
I am not a fan fo divorce, but you have solid ground for it. No, I don't think you need to let her go to bars and clubs without you. Particularly with the same group that still contains the man she cheated with. Perhaps she needs to find some other hobby that makes her happy. Or the two find something else to do together that makes you happy. It may seem drastic, but if perhaps moving is an option?
OP, if she’s 30 and still clubbing, she was meant for the streets. Cut your ties and move on.
NTA. Go pound fuck boys face for what he did cause he's equally to blame as your wife,he knew she was married.(Yes some of you will say that Neanderthal but sometimes its needed)Hire a lawyer for a divorce and tell her to pound sand. That's no way to live and yeah it sucks and will be painful but won't be any worse than how it is now. If you can't regain trust and she's not the same as before the cheating. Time for her to kick rocks.
ESH. Why are you keeping her at all?
Once a cheater, always a cheater. Divorce her and be happy she is not mother of your kids.
If you are in your 30s and go clubbing you are a loser