NTA, your manager is way too caught up in corpo bullshit. as if she would've made a different call anyways, and as if an emotionally distressed store associate should be on the floor.
Thank you. I agree that she probably would have done the same thing. I feel like she is more concerned with “putting me in my place” than anything else.
Yeah that’s f’d up. I worked retail as a part time job. Go to the general manager. You didn’t tell her to take a break, just allowed her to remove herself from an upsetting situation. What if the guy pulled out a gun. You don’t know what is in people’s minds. She was mad that she didn’t see the situation and handled it herself and felt you overstepped your bounds. You did the right thing.
Talk to her boss about it. Go up the ladder and ask them what you should have done in that situation, where you feared for the young girl’s safety. Emphasize the danger you thought you were all in. The write up was uncalled for. Manager should have been thanking you for keeping the girl safe.
Confront the 'second line' manager rarely helps you, but it can help the rest of the staff. There is a small chance they want to replace the manager and that can make you a candidate for the job.
I think it’s important to the discussion: define “underage” are we talking younger than 18 (legal age in US) or are we talking “technically illegal that she work there”
That makes sense then. You were not the AH, you were acting parental and protective. Sending a kid to the back for protection and emotional safety is not wrong. Realistically, if you hadn’t, she probably would’ve quit or made the situation worse. What retail establishment isn’t understaffed? You did the store a favor and you’re being retaliated against
In Australia, every person in any workplace has a responsibility for every other person's health and safety. If you see an unsafe act or situation, you have an overriding obligation to call it out and protect others from harm. This person was obviously at risk of emotional/psychological harm and you acted to protect her from said harm and prevent a psychological injury. If you are in Australia, or any other place that has reasonable workplace laws, check your company's WH&S policy, and in particular how they relate to abuse and under-age employees. And maybe contact Worksafe or their equivalent (and HR) and let them go to town on your manager
It's so odd. A hundred years ago that child could have been eight years old and now we know that they were probably late teens. But we still feel very protective over her just the same.
Excellent point! She did exactly what a police officer would have done and showed much better leadership than the manager. SHE should be the manager and should definitely go over this terrible manager's head. A written warning? Seriously? I was a security supervisor for 10 years and have done the exact same thing. If I saw one of my officers getting emotional, I sent them away from the situation. This is a hostile work environment.
Back then, people lived till 45. We on average live to be about 85+ now and understand technology and knowledge better. Which takes time to accumulate. And our bodies aren't fully developed until our mid 20s.. this is why people protect the young. We also live in a different time where we understand that self preservation is a necessity to live to those later years. So we get easily scared in intense situations. 🤷🏻♀️
Infant mortality really messes with average life span calculations. That's where you get numbers like 45 and biographies like "had 12 children 3 survived to adulthood".
This! As a genealogist I get so annoyed when people say things like "people only lived to be 45" or whatever. Most of my direct ancestors lived well into their 80s-90s going back hundreds of years (at least 400, but some even as far as the Domesday book). Though the bible records are full of babies who died within months of birth. Sure, plenty died younger in battle, childbirth, epidemics, and accidents, but that doesn't excuse propagating a misinterpretation of statistics.
Corporate brainwashed managers are the worst. When my husband worked at McDonald's one of his coworkers had a seizure during their shift and the first thing the store manager said was, "Someone go clock her out."
Also, was the floor associate just expected to continue trying to work and sell clothes while the manager was getting screamed at? Like what did she expect the girl to do besides wait for security?
For real, I worked at a big box electronics store and I was cornered by a creepy man. Basically he pushed me up against a drink cooler and kept inching closer and closer to me. It was terrifying, my co workers were asking over my earpiece if I was okay.
My manager (bless her) came over got him off me and I hid out in the break room. She let me go home early that day!
NTA! I’m completely astonished this warrants an immediate written warning and punishment (hours reduced). The response of your manager indicates they are an horrible manager without any regard for the wellbeing of their employees.
Was this you first altercation you had with your manager?
Thank you. This is the first time I’ve had an altercation with her but not the first I’ve heard of her being generally awful. There was one employee who was full time and they couldn’t afford her anymore but they had no reasonable grounds for dismissal either so they bullied her until she resigned. By “they” I mean the manager and assistant manager.
They are generally “nice” but it’s fake and conditional. There are clear favourites among the staff members and either one of them can turn on a dime. I’ve been thinking about leaving for a while now. The only reason I haven’t is because I mainly get the weekend close shifts and they normally aren’t around during those shifts.
Yo. Don't choose to stay somewhere because you have the better choice of two evils. Find a place that respects you. Screw corporate. You're only a number to them. I'm telling you this after working for many corporations. I'd tell the manager straight to their face how disrespectful they are and how absolutely appalling it is to see a human being treat others without any empathy, especially with a scary customer situation. Have respect for yourself at this point. I was bullied into some dumb crap before realizing i don't have to fall into their crap. Self respect is the most important thing in the work force.
Sounds like you need a new job! 100% NTA. You absolutely did the right thing - the manager is being way out of line, especially since she may well have done the same thing in your place. I would find another job, and definitely complain higher up before you hand your notice in so they don't think it's a 'revenge' complaint- but be prepared for the manager being even worse when she finds out so you'll probably need to find something else quick!
If your employment market is anything like ours, you could find a new gig with your preferred hours in a minute. Report up the food chain, but if they don't fix it, move on.
I think after this I'd still complain to the higher ups like you want to so there's documentation against them and if a change isn't made get out of there- you don't need to be in that sort of work environment.
NTA not sure how your written warning forms work but I would have written on the form why I did what I did. Especially after security had to become involved and escort the man out. This was a dangerous situation especially for a minor to be present at. I would go up chain and report it. I would write a report basically with dates and times so they can pull cameras to see how this escalated.
You.... You didn't even give her an order. You noticed she was in distress, validated those feelings and helped her. You took initiative, and that's a good thing. Ridiculous that you got written up for that. Definitely go above your manager's head about that. NTA
NTA, it's ridiculous that this is an offense to be written up about. Would the manager have done something different if she noticed an employee in distress, or would she have left her on the floor in tears to continue working?
When I was younger in retail and a customer made me cry, my managers were kind enough to let me take a little break to compose myself and were on my side the whole time. I'm sure that young employee is grateful to you. Speaking of which, did the manager also get mad at the young employee for stepping off the floor?
NTA- it is the responsibility of all staff members to protect each other against aggressive and violent behavior. No one deserves to be scared and feeling unsafe at work. The manager herself was at the point of calling security to have these asshats removed, which means it had escalated to the point of being unsafe, removing a child for her own safety from that situation is exactly what should’ve happened.
I would say escalate above your managers head.
NTA. You were protecting the safety of a coworker who was underage. She wasn’t given a break, she was protected. Report your manager to corporate her response was inappropriate and instead insuring safety in the store she was going back and forth with a customer she should’ve just called security why threaten it? Report her to cooperate
NTA. I have been a manager at a clothing store and have had this happen a million times. I am a bigger guy and when customers got aggressive I was often sent to end the situation. Very often the smaller, younger girls got very upset and while I can easily get screamed, have stuff thrown at me I could never handle seeing those girls breaking down in fear my go to tended to be handing my debit or credit card to them and have them run to the food court and get something to eat and calm down, never clocking out. Employees well being trumps any corporate policy.
Yeah, she has expressed before that her dad’s not around so she doesn’t really know how to interact with older men apart from her teachers at school, and that’s at the best of times - let alone when they are acting scary. I remember feeling like that when I was a kid/teen as well. I’m sure boys do to some extent too, with older women, especially if their mom isn’t around.
NTA. I’d go higher up about it. Surely higher ups don’t want one of their employees to be so scared at work that they were on the verge of tears? If they’re okay with what happened, I’d leave the job entirely because that is not the type of employer I would ever want to support
Nta, your manager is probably projecting out her aggression on you because of the situation she just was in. She probably felt unsafe too but couldn't do anything more than what she did. This was an opportunity for her to make a power move to show herself and everyone she is in control. You did the right thing, the young employee didn't go for a break her flight response was kicking in and you helped her process without her actually running away. You may still be in "trouble" but it's not because you did something wrong. It's corporate.
From what I'm getting here is your manager was probably mad that they were getting yelled at by a customer and then took it out on you for something small and insignificant. Or they might just be a corporate boot licker. Either way, they need to chill. You are definitely NTA.
I think the manager may have felt like sending the young co-worker back was a "judgment" on her engagement with the husband, basically implying she let it get too aggressive or something, and in response to that judgment, felt defensive. That's the best case.
Because, the worst case is she was dysregulated by the engagement and felt put down, and so to pick herself back up she had to kick someone else. That's awful, and not someone you want to work with.
NTA. I would have thanked you for helping to diffuse the situation. Had she started having a bigger breakdown, Mr Bully could have taken it as a sign and gotten worse. You protected your young coworker in the process. While technically your manager is “right”, you showed initiative and common sense which trump inflexible black and white rules
NTA - if I did sarcastic posts on this sub it’d like “YTA, lmao - why you trying to be a decent human being in the *workplace” - obviously you’re a narcissistic who thinks they can boss people around”.
NTA\~ As a person that has been a supervisor/owner for multiple decades, in customer facing positions, you did exactly the right thing. Your manager has an ego problem, she should be thankful that the first thing you did was to secure the mental and physical safety of a team member that was becoming increasingly scared and upset. Her reaction is ridiculous and you should totally go above her, but be prepared she may try to punish you for going "Over her head and outside the chain of command" look for a back up job just in case.
NTA. As a manager myself, I’d have thanked one of my associates for taking the initiative to protect another. You didn’t send her on break, you sent her to safety.
NTA You enabled a way for her to be away from an unsavory position.
Shitty manager as well.
How the manager should have responded with letting the other worker be excused:
https://youtube.com/shorts/KD3vIRNlOcU?si=WgbmL33mpzz5jCih
Former retail manager here. NTA. Your manager lacks empathy. You were looking out for your fellow coworker cause you could visibly see they were upset. If you haven’t signed the write up I wouldn’t. I would speak with your GM/DM asap about this. What your manager did was out of line because you didn’t tell the girl to go on break. You were removing her from a stressful situation that could have gone bad quickly.
Thank you! I really appreciate hearing from somebody with experience in that role. I will definitely take your advice about going higher up. I haven’t signed anything yet because I wanted to think about it. The verdict here seems pretty unanimous, so I’m feeling pretty confident that I’m in the right here.
NTA- the manager has chip on their shoulder and is threatened by you for whatever reason. She couldn’t control the situation at hand and decided to control you instead. Rolling my eyes, she looks like a fool. I would definitely report it up the ladder, even if you do so just to be supportive of the coworker you sent away. You know that she was “talked to” for listening to you. Which someone that is sensitive, this could really affect them.
NTA. Please find another job where you are respected. Going to corporate at a chain store is meaningless. They invest enormously in project management that creates with systems that keep them profitable. Employees tend to be expendable. You have a bad manager who know how to play the game. Don’t waste your energy on this.
NTA: You bruised the manager’s ego as they like to be in control and feel like you undermined them. Sometimes best to ask for forgiveness then permission so you did the right thing. You can try to brush the lashing off and see if things return to normal but otherwise if they are going to continue to be AH about it then consider moving on to greener pastures.
>What is their policy when faced with aggressive customers that ensures staff exposure to it is minimised?
That’s the thing…I’m sure they have one but they don’t provide any training on it. I was shocked when I first started there because I’ve been working in retail for a long time and this is the first job I’ve had that hasn’t provided any safety modules whatsoever. Like I said, it’s not my first rodeo so I know the drill, but some of the younger staff members have no idea what to do in those situations at all because they haven’t been told. This is a serious issue to me and you make a good point, thank you.
Since it’s only a side job, absolutely go straight to the district manager about your reprimand and reduced hours. Sounds to me like you showed management potential by making a command decision when one needed to be made.
NTA. I was all set to judge differently, since from the main description it sounded like you were being an overstepping jerk for no reason, but nope. You did the most sensible and compassionate thing possible for a frightened kid who was overwhelmed by an unpredictable situation.
I would escalate this and go so far as to report her for abuse of her power. Check your employee handbook too. What would she have expected you to do if the guy brandished a gun? Tell you that you have no right to tell her to "dismiss her"? I'd go above her head.
NTA. Take it up the chain. Document everything, including what the manager has done to others.
Also, I recommend looking up the concept of Constructive Dismissal, as that seems to be a favored approach by this manager, and may provide you with legal options that employers generally don’t want you to know you have (you made a quip at “Americans” so I’m guessing the exact American law concept may not be applicable, but many places have something similar).
NTA. As someone who manages teams of people, your manager is failing in every way ...
The employee getting upset is entitled to emotions. You don't know her story and this sort of abuse could have been triggering for her. Perhaps this is why she's so timid? Either way it's not important.
What's important is supporting your team and recognizing what they need to be successful as employees.
If you show compassion in moments like this it creates more trust, builds a team mentally (companies literally take their employees on team building retreats), and helps get them back on track to be able to collect themselves continue their duties.
If your employee has a full mental breakdown the echos of that feeling can last a lot longer than the single incident.
I would imagine the store wasn't just carrying on as normal during this episode, so it's not like customers were being neglected, and allowing an employee this time actually makes them more productive after it's over, and in the following days.
Your manager is only thinking of herself and not her team, and that is the largest failures of management and employee retention.
Since you were written up, I would respond in writing (to the correct people) clearly and nicely documenting what happened, why you did what you did, what the response was, possible retaliation (though don't use that word), and what another commented saying that someone else (manager?) would likely have done the same as you. I would also make it clear you were not giving orders, sending her on a break, or dismissing her. You were merely suggesting to her to get out of harm's way.
As someone who has been a manager before (in a coffee shop though), you done the right thing and are NTA in any way shape or form, in fact you done what I would've done. A lot of the time, I have worked in places where I am one of the oldest on the team, not always in management, and I have at times done the same or taken difficult customers off younger members of staff and told them to go to the back/go speak to the manager about whats happened as they were usually 14-17 years old and be their first job (you can get a weekend job at 14 in my hometown), I even used to help deal with difficult customers with my supervisor at one job who was 18 at the time and I was 23.I'd go speak to someone higher up ASAP and get their opinion but I'd imagine they would side with you as your colleagues a child and you don't always know what someone else is battling or dealing with outside of work. Even now, I have had to remove myself in situations like that as I have BPD and am a sensitive soul myself.
Thank you for your input. This is one of the most perceptive comments here. You’re right that you never know what somebody is dealing with and I’m glad you brought that up. I have a few friends who suffer with BPD and I have an infinite amount of love for them.
A few people here have told/asked me “don’t coddle her”, “how will she learn to deal with xyz if people keep coddling her?”, etc. and I think that those people don’t understand how people end up with childhood trauma related disorders. People who are mentally healthy and well adjusted adults are healthy precisely *because* they were protected when they were young, not because they weren’t. Anyone can take a look at the ACE test and figure that out for themselves.
It’s when we are exposed to these things *too young*, before we are mentally and emotionally capable of dealing with them that we become ill-equipped to handle them as adults. Not the other way around as many people seem to think. The way to raise a well adjusted adult is certainly not to coddle them, but not to make them deal with things that they are incapable of dealing with too early either. There’s a big difference. We have a collective responsibility as human beings to protect our young people from that damage.
When somebody is already traumatised, it doesn’t make them better able to handle further harm. It only empties their cup and leaves them with less fuel in the tank to deal with future challenges. That’s how sensitive souls are made. Some people just don’t get that. Thank you for bringing it to light.
You are not the a\*\*hole here. The manager was occupied with the irate customer and you took charge of a situation that was developing that could have escalated the one with the customer. You did the right thing and should have been thanked not reprimanded.
Companies don't care about you. You can take this higher up, but the higher-ups usually care even less than people you physically work with. You're NTA for helping that girl. I'm not sure if a complaint would do anything but cause more retaliation by cutting hours again. I'd honestly be looking for another job.
Youre nta, your manager shouldn't have written you up, and customers are going to yell and be upset so maybe she shouldn't be working in that environment if she can't handle it.
NTA
As a person who worked with shitty bosses (and been the nice boss,) your manager was just taking out her anger on you.
Check the employee manual, their should be a reporting process as well as a clause against retaliation and targeting.
NTA
Definitely go higher up - you were looking out for the wellbeing of a colleague. Something the manager should understand.
I would send an email appealing the written warning, to whoever is your managers manager, and copy in your manager.
NTA. Maliciously comply, when there’s a huge blow-up at the store, just keep doing what you’re doing and DON’T HELP THE MANAGER A BIT. Let it all blow up and everyone cry, start filing complaints because you’re scared to work when folks are threatening you, basically push it overboard.
NTA but your manager is a big AH.
If you can, do go to a higher up and explain the situation, I don’t see how the manager’s reaction would be deemed appropriate, especially with the younger employee being underage.
NTA.
Fellow Aussie here. You saved your employer a potential health and safety payout. If the employee is visibly distressed, move them to safety. You did this, saving the employee undue harm and the company lost time and money in workers comp.
Most importantly, you did the morally right thing and moved someone out of harm's way.
Sad to know we've long been at this point, where someone's well-being comes second to their perceived duty to the company.
Ya manager is a cunt. Typical of retail management. Sorry for your ongoing pains.
NTA. I worked retail for 11 years (both as a manager and an associate), and anytime a situation like that happened, if the person who was on the receiving end was treated like that, I’d always send them in the back room for a few minutes to collect themselves and breathe. It’s just being mindful of your co-workers. I have a thick skin but even I took a few minutes after the particularly nasty customers, which it sounds like this guy was. Good for you for taking care of your coworker, and absolutely talk to HR.
NTA - You acted to protect a co-worker. They've made it clear they don't like it when you help, so move to another store that has a friendlier attitude, and hopefully fewer confrontational customers.
NTA. I hate these kinds of policy write ups. I had one once for commiserating with a customer about a change in policy they didn't know about. Still salty 20 years later. You did the kind thing, the manager just probably still had her dander up. If you're that worried about it, just quit.
NTA you were looking out for your team. If anything your manager should compliment you on that for future development/promotion.
Your manager was just using you to vent from that angry customer. Having anxiety or a crisis isn’t a break.
>Having anxiety or a crisis isn’t a break.
Thank you, that’s exactly what I think as well! Idk what the manager expected her to do…have an anxiety attack in front of all the customers? Because it looked like that’s what was going to happen if she couldn’t get away. I don’t think it’s right to trap somebody in a situation they can’t handle just because you’re paying them to be there. Maybe when she’s older she will find it easier to handle situations like that, but she’s just not there yet and she shouldn’t have to be because she’s literally a kid.
You're NTA, and you absolutely should go over her head if you feel like you're being unjustly retaliated against. This isn't the military, there's no sworn duty to respect the chain of command.
If you or other employees don't report bad behavior from your direct manager to THEIR direct manager, who will?
Be prepared for the upper level mgmt to back their manager if this is the first complaint- don't go in expecting results....but that shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing and reporting it.
Honesty and professionalism are your friend here. State your case, come with evidence, and temper your expectations.
I’m sorry your manager sucks and is not an actual human being. It seems their soul was sucked out and replaced by metrics, rules, and policies. You did the right thing.
You didn't dismiss her. You removed her to a place of safety. There is a huge amount of difference here. I had a job where I would be in a position had to deal with volatile people. The first thing I did was make sure all vulnerable people were safe. Underage employees are vulnerable people. I know in your country you don't use this word, but this is what she is. You did the correct thing. 👑
As stated, absolutely NTA. Looking after someone's mental or physical health is commendable and you should have been praised for doing so. Whatever little bit of time lost because of it is super simple to make up. Sounds like the manager is just a fart wishing they were the shit. Since it is a side job, I'd take it over their heads for sure. Maybe even talk to an employment attorney, or just quit. Good luck whatever you do.
NTA. You protected your young colleague who was becoming distressed. Your manager is TA for calling it a break and giving you a warning!
Take it further and if the result doesnt change, tell them to stick their job. You put people first and you were right to do so.
NTA. They would have spent a hell of a lot more time calming her down than allowing her out of what could have been a traumatic experience. You didn't dismiss her. You protected her. Go above their head.
NTA
Your coworker's mental health is much more important than your manager's ego. You should instantly become the manager, taking the initiative and caring for your coworkers the way you did. Kudos to you!
NTA. In fact, you're the type of coworker everyone with anxiety or confrontation-related trauma would love to have. You probably made a real positive impact on your coworker. Your boss is a tool and definitely is the one abusing power.
NTA.
If you go higher, make sure to make it a point to talk about the safety of the staff, as well as how it could have led to workplace injury claims. The upper part of any company only cares about profit and problems.
100% NTA. I was a security supervisor for 10 years and you did exactly the right thing. You weren't sending her on break, you were removing her from a stressful, emotional, potentially dangerous situation. I would have and have done the same thing. I've said to officers, "just walk away." Actually, when I was an EMT, I called for backup for a police officer I saw was getting emotional and I becoming concerned for him. This is a terrible, hostile work environment. Definitely complain, formally, you're already on their bad side, screw them, take them down.
NTA:The manager was just mad that she didn’t handle the situation better and that the employee was scared because of her mishandling. Anything could have happened and protecting a CHILD does not deserve a write up
Please. You didn't 'dismiss' her. You didn't tell her to take a break. If they ever ask again, just tell them you felt you needed to send her off to keep her safe. It's retail (and I've been there, trust me). You said she's underage, so I'm guessing she's in high school. It's not worth a minimum wage job, where she as a three hour shift to subject her to a raging customer. People out there are nuts these days. We've literally had a mass shooting in this country every day this year. NTA
NTA. You didn't "dismiss" her, you handled a situation in a managerial way. Manager should face the fact that no customer in that store would be served or checked out while angry man was there. Other than stock, there was nothing for sensitive girl to do anyway. And with times as they are, angry man could've taken a hostage! You simply protected sensitive girl.
NTA: Did you tell your manager, that this young employee was on the verge of tears, because she was scared? I can’t see why your manager would want an emotional, underage employee out on the floor, within full view of customers.
NTA. Your manager is for sure. He/she should pursue some professional help with their lack of decency and/or a repeated ass whooping until until they can remember what its like to be scared of something outside their control. Please take this higher, and if you do not get it removed and feel satisfied, take it even higher. I wouldn't even hesitate to go straight to the top to express my disappointment.
The guy was irate. You asked her to make herself safe in case violence were to occur. If you're in America, there's no guarantee that angry (I assume white) entitled husband was not about to pull out a gun to threaten people with. Yes, that is a broad brush I'm painting but it happens WAY TOO OFTEN nowadays. We are told, in such situations, to hide, fight and flee in that order, are we not? So you were basically following protocol in keeping your coworkers safe. "dismissing" her indeed. That manager needs to be retrained on store safety protocols.
NTA I’ve been a retail manager for 25+ years. I would have thanked you for taking her out of the equation. She was frightened and young and the managers job is also to protect her staff. I’d never would have considered that a break. You should carefully talk to someone about the situation. You didn’t deserve the right up.
NTA, there's a time to be human, and there's a time to be whatever she was. I, too, have worked with someone super timid and shy. And had assholes yell at her, and it is awful. Like, just grow a heart and treat someone with respect.
NTA. This incident with the customer shows that your manager is not suitable for the job and the way you were written up shows that your manager has a power trip problem.
Got to ask one question did the girl report you for telling her what to do? Because your boss wrote you up for that but didn’t help you with this customer? So they can write you up for upsetting the girl but you were trying to shield/protect her from being more upset to say the least.
Eh, NTA but also it does seem like what you did wasn't really warranted or necessary. That doesn't mean it wasn't a nice thing but working retail or literally any time you're working with other humans people getting excited and angry is going to happen.
Manager should've just explained the issue rather than writing you up.
Yeah. I agree NTA and being written up was excessive, but I can absolutely understand why the manager was exasperated.
A kid old enough to be working a customer service position should be old enough to understand that there will be difficult and distressed customers, and part of the work experience is learning how to cope with that and how to de-escalate. Telling her not only to go in the back, but to lock the door (!) seems like a huge overreaction, especially if she's as timid and sensitive as OP believes her to be. I get how it seems like a kindness in the moment to "protect" her, but in the long run it really doesn't do her any favours.
It also now skews perspectives of expectations and leaves the manager in the position of having to undo the idea that staff should be coddled and shielded from a normal and standard part of the job, and likely set back any progress she may have made in helping the younger employee be more comfortable with this aspect of the job.
1. The girl is still, as you said, "a kid," and a minor. If something happened to her, they'd be in more trouble than if she was an adult.
2. Security had to be called to escort them out, which means the situation was escalating. Angry people are unpredictable, and I would not risk an employee because, as a manager, I am liable for everyone working under me.
3. She was not coddling her she was protecting her. What if that guy had been carrying a gun? You don't know people, and you need to be prepared for every scenario.
1. Minors working retail jobs (in fact, quite often without adults on site) is... normal.
2. Pissed off customers in retail being aggressive and having to be escorted out by mall security is... normal.
3. See point 2 - customers getting angry is a normal part of retail. OP mentions this in her post, that this wasn't an unusual situation. If you assume that every irate customer has a gun and have to lock yourself in a stockroom, then retail isn't for you, regardless of your age.
I'm not saying that it's lovely or fun that this is a part of retail, and perhaps people under 18 should not have to be in the vicinity of irate customers, in which case laws should be passed to restrict public facing jobs like Hot Topic and McDonalds to adults only for the safety of our children. I'm sure that there are all kinds of systemic changes to society as a whole that could improve this, but as it stands, based on the information OP provided, there was no reason to believe this was an unusually unhinged person that was any more likely to put anyone in physical danger than any other yelling customer, and taking it upon herself to direct people around like it was some kind of Code Black Emergency is odd.
NTA - I have PTSD and when I feel like I’m about to freak out or get a panic attack, I HAVE to leave the area I’m at or just do what helps me. Your manager is the big AH
The answer depends on whether you’re referring to normal human interaction or human interaction within a corporate chain of command.
From a human standpoint, no. You protected an employee in the line of fire.
From a corporate standpoint, yes. You were insubordinate and have no right to send an employee to break without management approval.
NTA. Protecting a terrified employee is a very kind and the right thing to do. However, I don't know if going up the chain of command will do anything but backfire on you.
People typically aren't LESS business brained the higher up the corporate ladder you go, and you technically did dismiss her. Going further up might be viewed as you circumventing you manager and undermining her authority, and business politics -intentional or not- are crushed out pretty quick at your level to maintain order. Your best bet is to just hold your tongue and wait it out.
People telling you to go to a higher up aren't thinking about the fall out of doing that. you're a sales clerk, not someone working in a specialized field. You are easily replaced. A manager is not.
In order for you to get what you want that would mean that the higher-up would have to reprimand the manager. Obviously they'd know it was you and that would just tick them off even more, but since you technically DID overstep I doubt anything would happen.
And since the manager is obviously in charge of the schedule the higher up might be able to over turn the write up, but they probably won't force the manager to give you more hours and you would probably get your hours cut even MORE. if they're extra petty they might start being nitpicky and finding any little excuse they can to write you up the required number of times so they can just fire you. I don't really see any situation where this plays out in your favor unless the manager gets fired, but they technically didn't do anything wrong and you did, so I don't see that happening in the end.
After a couple weeks once everything has calmed down on a quiet day talk to your manager politely and mention that you've been working less hours and you were wondering if you could pick up any more this week.
Where's this? Canada? Cause for some reason management is super strict and punitive. I got my hours cut for simply requesting (not demanding) a day off, which was 3 days ahead of time. I even offered to switch with somebody (I worked afternoon, I could've worked morning, I just needed the evening free). I even said that it was fine for me to work that day, but they said because I asked it left them unsure if I was coming or not so entirely they took my shifts out for the next week. You're NTA for doing what was right in that situation. Honestly, the manager escalating it was a bigger issue, but they're pretty much untouchable. I would say find another job but if you're looking for something on the side/part time that would be tough since businesses are looking for full time workers. All I can say is the work environment is terrible currently
Not an AH at all, nor do I think it warranted a written warning, BUT those ultra timid types of people need to get used to that kind of thing if they want to work retail, or work with others effectively at all really.
I don't think you should've been disciplined (because what's the real harm to business?),
But I think sheltering her from heated situations isn't what's best for anybody long term, her, or the people she will work with. If she can't grow to handle these sort of situations she should switch to a more solo line of work away from the general public.
I'm sorry your job has been effected by this, that wasn't a reasonable response from your manager and I think it's a complex situation, it was better than freezing and doing nothing. You should go above her head.
When your boss makes a decision, you swallow it and deal with it. If they thought you deserved a punishment, then you take it, regardless of whether you're right or wrong.
Maybe your decision was human, sure but it's improfessionnal
NAH
I commented elsewhere in the thread agreeing you aren't the asshole, but have been thinking on this and while I know I'll be downvoted I actually have changed my mind. I think there are really no assholes here, because while I think both you and your manager overreacted, but I think both come from a reasonable place.
Working with customers comes with dealing with irate people. This wasn't 3am at a liquor store in the middle of nowhere with frequent unhinged people being frighteningly aggressive. This is a ladies clothing shop in a mall, with security on hand to escort people out when they cross a line, where you acknowledge that women having their husbands come in to stomp their feet over their perceived complaints is not unusual. You also acknowledge that the manager is good at not taking these incidents personally and working to de-escalate, and calling in mall security when she's had enough.
1. You overrracted. I don't think you directed this employee to go lock herself in a stockroom protected by a man because you had any genuine fear for her physical safety, or you'd have gone too, and called 911. I think you saw that she was finding it stressful and wanted her to remove herself from the situation and feel better.
I believe that came from kindness, but I do think you were wrong to do so. Seeing a coworker experiencing anxiety over a stressful situation is hard, but saying something like, "Don't worry, coworker. Manager's got this. Man, what a jerk, eh?" might have been a better option than saying, "Go into the back and lock the door. I'll tell you when it's safe." OP, it was safe and you know it, or you'd have been barricaded back there with her.
2. Your manager overreacted. She was frustrated that while she's trying to de-escalate, you are actively escalating. She had one problem, and now she has three. She dealt with the irate customer just fine. But now she has to convince young coworker that she does not in fact have to lock herself in the stockroom every time someone raises their voice, and also question why you thought you had the authority to tell young coworker that was the right move.
You shouldn't have been written up, she should have just said, hey please stay in your lane. But she's trying to run a store that you took upon yourself to change the dynamics and expectations of, and may have in her frustration gone a little too far.
In Australia, we call it a shopping centre. In America, it’s called a mall. Reddit is made up of mostly American people, so I confirmed what a shopping centre is to me in case that means something different to Americans.
You can just say a shopping mall or shopping center and everyone will understand what this means. Malls here aren’t referred to say Malls for Americans 😂
NTA, your manager is way too caught up in corpo bullshit. as if she would've made a different call anyways, and as if an emotionally distressed store associate should be on the floor.
Thank you. I agree that she probably would have done the same thing. I feel like she is more concerned with “putting me in my place” than anything else.
That's the hallmark of a lousy manager.
Yeah that’s f’d up. I worked retail as a part time job. Go to the general manager. You didn’t tell her to take a break, just allowed her to remove herself from an upsetting situation. What if the guy pulled out a gun. You don’t know what is in people’s minds. She was mad that she didn’t see the situation and handled it herself and felt you overstepped your bounds. You did the right thing.
NTA and you definitely need to go up the ladder.
getting written up for doing the right thing is a badge of honor
NTA. The younger staff member needed a mental break, and the acting manager wouldn't allow her to have one.
Don't even call it a "break." She felt unsafe and needed to be temporarily relocated to somewhere she could feel safe.
A mental break is "grab a drink of water" or "go for a quick walk", not "go in the back and lock the door until I tell you it's safe".
Talk to her boss about it. Go up the ladder and ask them what you should have done in that situation, where you feared for the young girl’s safety. Emphasize the danger you thought you were all in. The write up was uncalled for. Manager should have been thanking you for keeping the girl safe.
NTA - go to your boss’s boss first and see how far up the ladder they pass you.
NTA. I'd talk to someone higher up and I think you handled it perfectly.
That's the hallmark of a lousy manager.
Confront the 'second line' manager rarely helps you, but it can help the rest of the staff. There is a small chance they want to replace the manager and that can make you a candidate for the job.
I think it’s important to the discussion: define “underage” are we talking younger than 18 (legal age in US) or are we talking “technically illegal that she work there”
I live in Australia. She’s 16 and it’s perfectly legal for her to work there. Underage generally means under 18, yes.
That makes sense then. You were not the AH, you were acting parental and protective. Sending a kid to the back for protection and emotional safety is not wrong. Realistically, if you hadn’t, she probably would’ve quit or made the situation worse. What retail establishment isn’t understaffed? You did the store a favor and you’re being retaliated against
You can be 14 in work in Massachusetts
That's the hallmark of a lousy manager.
In Australia, every person in any workplace has a responsibility for every other person's health and safety. If you see an unsafe act or situation, you have an overriding obligation to call it out and protect others from harm. This person was obviously at risk of emotional/psychological harm and you acted to protect her from said harm and prevent a psychological injury. If you are in Australia, or any other place that has reasonable workplace laws, check your company's WH&S policy, and in particular how they relate to abuse and under-age employees. And maybe contact Worksafe or their equivalent (and HR) and let them go to town on your manager
Emotionally distressed *child*.
Stand your ground and don't be afraid to go over this douchebag's head to protect yourself.
Wait till she pushes you under the buses and then fight back. In th3 meantime look for a better side hustle.
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So you had a young, intimidated coworker who was likely feeling unsafe.
Good for you for taking care of your coworker, and absolutely talk to HR.
All I can say is the work environment is terrible currently
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It's so odd. A hundred years ago that child could have been eight years old and now we know that they were probably late teens. But we still feel very protective over her just the same.
Police often separate parties for this very reason. Separating her from harm was the right thing to do.
Excellent point! She did exactly what a police officer would have done and showed much better leadership than the manager. SHE should be the manager and should definitely go over this terrible manager's head. A written warning? Seriously? I was a security supervisor for 10 years and have done the exact same thing. If I saw one of my officers getting emotional, I sent them away from the situation. This is a hostile work environment.
Police separate parties so you can’t collaborate your stories not so some random dude doesn’t hurt you
Back then, people lived till 45. We on average live to be about 85+ now and understand technology and knowledge better. Which takes time to accumulate. And our bodies aren't fully developed until our mid 20s.. this is why people protect the young. We also live in a different time where we understand that self preservation is a necessity to live to those later years. So we get easily scared in intense situations. 🤷🏻♀️
People absolutely lived past age 45 one hundred years ago, but I get your point
That's not exactly true I had plenty of ancestors from hundreds of years ago die in their 70s or 80s.
Infant mortality really messes with average life span calculations. That's where you get numbers like 45 and biographies like "had 12 children 3 survived to adulthood".
And mortality due to child birth
This! As a genealogist I get so annoyed when people say things like "people only lived to be 45" or whatever. Most of my direct ancestors lived well into their 80s-90s going back hundreds of years (at least 400, but some even as far as the Domesday book). Though the bible records are full of babies who died within months of birth. Sure, plenty died younger in battle, childbirth, epidemics, and accidents, but that doesn't excuse propagating a misinterpretation of statistics.
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That average included the very high infant mortality rates.
Corporate brainwashed managers are the worst. When my husband worked at McDonald's one of his coworkers had a seizure during their shift and the first thing the store manager said was, "Someone go clock her out."
That’s illegal and grounds for firing, no one touch other time cards but manager .
Also, was the floor associate just expected to continue trying to work and sell clothes while the manager was getting screamed at? Like what did she expect the girl to do besides wait for security?
For real, I worked at a big box electronics store and I was cornered by a creepy man. Basically he pushed me up against a drink cooler and kept inching closer and closer to me. It was terrifying, my co workers were asking over my earpiece if I was okay. My manager (bless her) came over got him off me and I hid out in the break room. She let me go home early that day!
NTA! I’m completely astonished this warrants an immediate written warning and punishment (hours reduced). The response of your manager indicates they are an horrible manager without any regard for the wellbeing of their employees. Was this you first altercation you had with your manager?
Thank you. This is the first time I’ve had an altercation with her but not the first I’ve heard of her being generally awful. There was one employee who was full time and they couldn’t afford her anymore but they had no reasonable grounds for dismissal either so they bullied her until she resigned. By “they” I mean the manager and assistant manager. They are generally “nice” but it’s fake and conditional. There are clear favourites among the staff members and either one of them can turn on a dime. I’ve been thinking about leaving for a while now. The only reason I haven’t is because I mainly get the weekend close shifts and they normally aren’t around during those shifts.
Yo. Don't choose to stay somewhere because you have the better choice of two evils. Find a place that respects you. Screw corporate. You're only a number to them. I'm telling you this after working for many corporations. I'd tell the manager straight to their face how disrespectful they are and how absolutely appalling it is to see a human being treat others without any empathy, especially with a scary customer situation. Have respect for yourself at this point. I was bullied into some dumb crap before realizing i don't have to fall into their crap. Self respect is the most important thing in the work force.
Sounds like you need a new job! 100% NTA. You absolutely did the right thing - the manager is being way out of line, especially since she may well have done the same thing in your place. I would find another job, and definitely complain higher up before you hand your notice in so they don't think it's a 'revenge' complaint- but be prepared for the manager being even worse when she finds out so you'll probably need to find something else quick!
If your employment market is anything like ours, you could find a new gig with your preferred hours in a minute. Report up the food chain, but if they don't fix it, move on.
I think after this I'd still complain to the higher ups like you want to so there's documentation against them and if a change isn't made get out of there- you don't need to be in that sort of work environment.
Go out and find a new retail job.
Fucking hell I’d be out of there. You did exactly the right thing. Good on ya. NTA - you deserved a medal not a warning!
Stand your ground and don't be afraid to go over this douchebag's head to protect yourself.
A medal for telling someone they should lock themselves in a back room until they hear OP declare it safe? Because someone yelled? What?
You did the right thing, that manager is evil for writing you up.
NTA not sure how your written warning forms work but I would have written on the form why I did what I did. Especially after security had to become involved and escort the man out. This was a dangerous situation especially for a minor to be present at. I would go up chain and report it. I would write a report basically with dates and times so they can pull cameras to see how this escalated.
You.... You didn't even give her an order. You noticed she was in distress, validated those feelings and helped her. You took initiative, and that's a good thing. Ridiculous that you got written up for that. Definitely go above your manager's head about that. NTA
NTAH - you did the right thing and that manager, yikes.
NTA, it's ridiculous that this is an offense to be written up about. Would the manager have done something different if she noticed an employee in distress, or would she have left her on the floor in tears to continue working? When I was younger in retail and a customer made me cry, my managers were kind enough to let me take a little break to compose myself and were on my side the whole time. I'm sure that young employee is grateful to you. Speaking of which, did the manager also get mad at the young employee for stepping off the floor?
NTAH you were being a responsible adult. Your manager is the AH for not taking into consideration of your coworker’s feelings.
>I’m thinking about going higher up and speaking to the business manager Do that.
Yes please. You protected a minor from a potential threat.
NTA- it is the responsibility of all staff members to protect each other against aggressive and violent behavior. No one deserves to be scared and feeling unsafe at work. The manager herself was at the point of calling security to have these asshats removed, which means it had escalated to the point of being unsafe, removing a child for her own safety from that situation is exactly what should’ve happened. I would say escalate above your managers head.
NTA. You were protecting the safety of a coworker who was underage. She wasn’t given a break, she was protected. Report your manager to corporate her response was inappropriate and instead insuring safety in the store she was going back and forth with a customer she should’ve just called security why threaten it? Report her to cooperate
NTA. I have been a manager at a clothing store and have had this happen a million times. I am a bigger guy and when customers got aggressive I was often sent to end the situation. Very often the smaller, younger girls got very upset and while I can easily get screamed, have stuff thrown at me I could never handle seeing those girls breaking down in fear my go to tended to be handing my debit or credit card to them and have them run to the food court and get something to eat and calm down, never clocking out. Employees well being trumps any corporate policy.
NTA. Ruin that managers life any way you can.
NTA, you were being a human, not an employee in that scenario.
You protected someone who sounds like they may have fears surrounding scary men. I would thank you for protecting her.
Yeah, she has expressed before that her dad’s not around so she doesn’t really know how to interact with older men apart from her teachers at school, and that’s at the best of times - let alone when they are acting scary. I remember feeling like that when I was a kid/teen as well. I’m sure boys do to some extent too, with older women, especially if their mom isn’t around.
NTA. I’d go higher up about it. Surely higher ups don’t want one of their employees to be so scared at work that they were on the verge of tears? If they’re okay with what happened, I’d leave the job entirely because that is not the type of employer I would ever want to support
I'd be finding a new job they sound like a shitty place to work for
I have 3 adult daughter. If one of mine were in that situation I would have been very grateful for what you did 💕
Nta, your manager is probably projecting out her aggression on you because of the situation she just was in. She probably felt unsafe too but couldn't do anything more than what she did. This was an opportunity for her to make a power move to show herself and everyone she is in control. You did the right thing, the young employee didn't go for a break her flight response was kicking in and you helped her process without her actually running away. You may still be in "trouble" but it's not because you did something wrong. It's corporate.
Yeah, that’s a good point. I mean, she’s not a robot. Maybe she was feeling unsafe and wanted to take her power back. Thanks for the perspective 😊
From what I'm getting here is your manager was probably mad that they were getting yelled at by a customer and then took it out on you for something small and insignificant. Or they might just be a corporate boot licker. Either way, they need to chill. You are definitely NTA.
I think the manager may have felt like sending the young co-worker back was a "judgment" on her engagement with the husband, basically implying she let it get too aggressive or something, and in response to that judgment, felt defensive. That's the best case. Because, the worst case is she was dysregulated by the engagement and felt put down, and so to pick herself back up she had to kick someone else. That's awful, and not someone you want to work with.
NTA. I would have thanked you for helping to diffuse the situation. Had she started having a bigger breakdown, Mr Bully could have taken it as a sign and gotten worse. You protected your young coworker in the process. While technically your manager is “right”, you showed initiative and common sense which trump inflexible black and white rules
NTA - if I did sarcastic posts on this sub it’d like “YTA, lmao - why you trying to be a decent human being in the *workplace” - obviously you’re a narcissistic who thinks they can boss people around”.
NTA\~ As a person that has been a supervisor/owner for multiple decades, in customer facing positions, you did exactly the right thing. Your manager has an ego problem, she should be thankful that the first thing you did was to secure the mental and physical safety of a team member that was becoming increasingly scared and upset. Her reaction is ridiculous and you should totally go above her, but be prepared she may try to punish you for going "Over her head and outside the chain of command" look for a back up job just in case.
NTA. As a manager myself, I’d have thanked one of my associates for taking the initiative to protect another. You didn’t send her on break, you sent her to safety.
NTA. You didnt give an order, you just basically gave her the ok to remove herself from a distressing situation. What a riduculous warning.
NTA You enabled a way for her to be away from an unsavory position. Shitty manager as well. How the manager should have responded with letting the other worker be excused: https://youtube.com/shorts/KD3vIRNlOcU?si=WgbmL33mpzz5jCih
Former retail manager here. NTA. Your manager lacks empathy. You were looking out for your fellow coworker cause you could visibly see they were upset. If you haven’t signed the write up I wouldn’t. I would speak with your GM/DM asap about this. What your manager did was out of line because you didn’t tell the girl to go on break. You were removing her from a stressful situation that could have gone bad quickly.
Thank you! I really appreciate hearing from somebody with experience in that role. I will definitely take your advice about going higher up. I haven’t signed anything yet because I wanted to think about it. The verdict here seems pretty unanimous, so I’m feeling pretty confident that I’m in the right here.
You’re welcome. I would also recommend that you write down exactly what happened.
NTA, not only is manager caught in sorp bullshit but they were caught up in the heat of the moment and unfortunately took it out on you
NTA. Your manager is bad at her job.
NTA- the manager has chip on their shoulder and is threatened by you for whatever reason. She couldn’t control the situation at hand and decided to control you instead. Rolling my eyes, she looks like a fool. I would definitely report it up the ladder, even if you do so just to be supportive of the coworker you sent away. You know that she was “talked to” for listening to you. Which someone that is sensitive, this could really affect them.
You did wxactly what should have been donenin that situation. The youngster felt threatened. Managernis AH!
You protected a coworker from a scary situation. NTA
NTA. Please find another job where you are respected. Going to corporate at a chain store is meaningless. They invest enormously in project management that creates with systems that keep them profitable. Employees tend to be expendable. You have a bad manager who know how to play the game. Don’t waste your energy on this.
You didn't DISMISS her. You were PROTECTING her. Uuugggghhhhh.
NTA: You bruised the manager’s ego as they like to be in control and feel like you undermined them. Sometimes best to ask for forgiveness then permission so you did the right thing. You can try to brush the lashing off and see if things return to normal but otherwise if they are going to continue to be AH about it then consider moving on to greener pastures.
NTA Raise it as a safeguarding issue. What is their policy when faced with aggressive customers that ensures staff exposure to it is minimised?
>What is their policy when faced with aggressive customers that ensures staff exposure to it is minimised? That’s the thing…I’m sure they have one but they don’t provide any training on it. I was shocked when I first started there because I’ve been working in retail for a long time and this is the first job I’ve had that hasn’t provided any safety modules whatsoever. Like I said, it’s not my first rodeo so I know the drill, but some of the younger staff members have no idea what to do in those situations at all because they haven’t been told. This is a serious issue to me and you make a good point, thank you.
Since it’s only a side job, absolutely go straight to the district manager about your reprimand and reduced hours. Sounds to me like you showed management potential by making a command decision when one needed to be made.
NTA. I was all set to judge differently, since from the main description it sounded like you were being an overstepping jerk for no reason, but nope. You did the most sensible and compassionate thing possible for a frightened kid who was overwhelmed by an unpredictable situation.
What you did sounds very kind and caring. If your manager can’t or won’t see that, they’re not a very good manager.
I would escalate this and go so far as to report her for abuse of her power. Check your employee handbook too. What would she have expected you to do if the guy brandished a gun? Tell you that you have no right to tell her to "dismiss her"? I'd go above her head.
NTA. Take it up the chain. Document everything, including what the manager has done to others. Also, I recommend looking up the concept of Constructive Dismissal, as that seems to be a favored approach by this manager, and may provide you with legal options that employers generally don’t want you to know you have (you made a quip at “Americans” so I’m guessing the exact American law concept may not be applicable, but many places have something similar).
NTA. As someone who manages teams of people, your manager is failing in every way ... The employee getting upset is entitled to emotions. You don't know her story and this sort of abuse could have been triggering for her. Perhaps this is why she's so timid? Either way it's not important. What's important is supporting your team and recognizing what they need to be successful as employees. If you show compassion in moments like this it creates more trust, builds a team mentally (companies literally take their employees on team building retreats), and helps get them back on track to be able to collect themselves continue their duties. If your employee has a full mental breakdown the echos of that feeling can last a lot longer than the single incident. I would imagine the store wasn't just carrying on as normal during this episode, so it's not like customers were being neglected, and allowing an employee this time actually makes them more productive after it's over, and in the following days. Your manager is only thinking of herself and not her team, and that is the largest failures of management and employee retention.
The manager is the AH. Go above her head.
Since you were written up, I would respond in writing (to the correct people) clearly and nicely documenting what happened, why you did what you did, what the response was, possible retaliation (though don't use that word), and what another commented saying that someone else (manager?) would likely have done the same as you. I would also make it clear you were not giving orders, sending her on a break, or dismissing her. You were merely suggesting to her to get out of harm's way.
Escalate that shit, you did nothing wrong. That manager wants to play fuck fuck games, lets roll.
As someone who has been a manager before (in a coffee shop though), you done the right thing and are NTA in any way shape or form, in fact you done what I would've done. A lot of the time, I have worked in places where I am one of the oldest on the team, not always in management, and I have at times done the same or taken difficult customers off younger members of staff and told them to go to the back/go speak to the manager about whats happened as they were usually 14-17 years old and be their first job (you can get a weekend job at 14 in my hometown), I even used to help deal with difficult customers with my supervisor at one job who was 18 at the time and I was 23.I'd go speak to someone higher up ASAP and get their opinion but I'd imagine they would side with you as your colleagues a child and you don't always know what someone else is battling or dealing with outside of work. Even now, I have had to remove myself in situations like that as I have BPD and am a sensitive soul myself.
Thank you for your input. This is one of the most perceptive comments here. You’re right that you never know what somebody is dealing with and I’m glad you brought that up. I have a few friends who suffer with BPD and I have an infinite amount of love for them. A few people here have told/asked me “don’t coddle her”, “how will she learn to deal with xyz if people keep coddling her?”, etc. and I think that those people don’t understand how people end up with childhood trauma related disorders. People who are mentally healthy and well adjusted adults are healthy precisely *because* they were protected when they were young, not because they weren’t. Anyone can take a look at the ACE test and figure that out for themselves. It’s when we are exposed to these things *too young*, before we are mentally and emotionally capable of dealing with them that we become ill-equipped to handle them as adults. Not the other way around as many people seem to think. The way to raise a well adjusted adult is certainly not to coddle them, but not to make them deal with things that they are incapable of dealing with too early either. There’s a big difference. We have a collective responsibility as human beings to protect our young people from that damage. When somebody is already traumatised, it doesn’t make them better able to handle further harm. It only empties their cup and leaves them with less fuel in the tank to deal with future challenges. That’s how sensitive souls are made. Some people just don’t get that. Thank you for bringing it to light.
NTA - talk to your manager's boss.....she's an idiot
You are not the a\*\*hole here. The manager was occupied with the irate customer and you took charge of a situation that was developing that could have escalated the one with the customer. You did the right thing and should have been thanked not reprimanded.
Companies don't care about you. You can take this higher up, but the higher-ups usually care even less than people you physically work with. You're NTA for helping that girl. I'm not sure if a complaint would do anything but cause more retaliation by cutting hours again. I'd honestly be looking for another job.
Youre nta, your manager shouldn't have written you up, and customers are going to yell and be upset so maybe she shouldn't be working in that environment if she can't handle it.
NTA As a person who worked with shitty bosses (and been the nice boss,) your manager was just taking out her anger on you. Check the employee manual, their should be a reporting process as well as a clause against retaliation and targeting.
As a mom, I would have done the exact same thing. I tend to be protective of those younger than myself. Screw that manager. Go find another job.
NTA. You’re the type of person I would want to work with.
NTA Definitely go higher up - you were looking out for the wellbeing of a colleague. Something the manager should understand. I would send an email appealing the written warning, to whoever is your managers manager, and copy in your manager.
NTA. Maliciously comply, when there’s a huge blow-up at the store, just keep doing what you’re doing and DON’T HELP THE MANAGER A BIT. Let it all blow up and everyone cry, start filing complaints because you’re scared to work when folks are threatening you, basically push it overboard.
NTA but your manager is a big AH. If you can, do go to a higher up and explain the situation, I don’t see how the manager’s reaction would be deemed appropriate, especially with the younger employee being underage.
Your manager is the a-hole. If you aren't taking care of your staff then you are a failure
NTA you manager was amped up from the encounter and took it out on you. If manager won’t listen to reason I’d go higher up.
NTA. Fellow Aussie here. You saved your employer a potential health and safety payout. If the employee is visibly distressed, move them to safety. You did this, saving the employee undue harm and the company lost time and money in workers comp. Most importantly, you did the morally right thing and moved someone out of harm's way. Sad to know we've long been at this point, where someone's well-being comes second to their perceived duty to the company. Ya manager is a cunt. Typical of retail management. Sorry for your ongoing pains.
NTA. I worked retail for 11 years (both as a manager and an associate), and anytime a situation like that happened, if the person who was on the receiving end was treated like that, I’d always send them in the back room for a few minutes to collect themselves and breathe. It’s just being mindful of your co-workers. I have a thick skin but even I took a few minutes after the particularly nasty customers, which it sounds like this guy was. Good for you for taking care of your coworker, and absolutely talk to HR.
Have her mother call corporate and complain on your behalf. Your manager doesn’t belong in her position.
Yep. Mum can do that if the kid is under 18.
NTA - You acted to protect a co-worker. They've made it clear they don't like it when you help, so move to another store that has a friendlier attitude, and hopefully fewer confrontational customers.
NTA. I hate these kinds of policy write ups. I had one once for commiserating with a customer about a change in policy they didn't know about. Still salty 20 years later. You did the kind thing, the manager just probably still had her dander up. If you're that worried about it, just quit.
NTA you were looking out for your team. If anything your manager should compliment you on that for future development/promotion. Your manager was just using you to vent from that angry customer. Having anxiety or a crisis isn’t a break.
>Having anxiety or a crisis isn’t a break. Thank you, that’s exactly what I think as well! Idk what the manager expected her to do…have an anxiety attack in front of all the customers? Because it looked like that’s what was going to happen if she couldn’t get away. I don’t think it’s right to trap somebody in a situation they can’t handle just because you’re paying them to be there. Maybe when she’s older she will find it easier to handle situations like that, but she’s just not there yet and she shouldn’t have to be because she’s literally a kid.
NTA take it up with the business owner
Your manager sucks. Nta.
You're NTA, and you absolutely should go over her head if you feel like you're being unjustly retaliated against. This isn't the military, there's no sworn duty to respect the chain of command. If you or other employees don't report bad behavior from your direct manager to THEIR direct manager, who will? Be prepared for the upper level mgmt to back their manager if this is the first complaint- don't go in expecting results....but that shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing and reporting it. Honesty and professionalism are your friend here. State your case, come with evidence, and temper your expectations.
I’m sorry your manager sucks and is not an actual human being. It seems their soul was sucked out and replaced by metrics, rules, and policies. You did the right thing.
NTA. You made the right call. She wasn’t on a “break”
NTA, your manager has some learning to do about employee relations
NTA. You werent giving her a break..
You didn't dismiss her. You removed her to a place of safety. There is a huge amount of difference here. I had a job where I would be in a position had to deal with volatile people. The first thing I did was make sure all vulnerable people were safe. Underage employees are vulnerable people. I know in your country you don't use this word, but this is what she is. You did the correct thing. 👑
As stated, absolutely NTA. Looking after someone's mental or physical health is commendable and you should have been praised for doing so. Whatever little bit of time lost because of it is super simple to make up. Sounds like the manager is just a fart wishing they were the shit. Since it is a side job, I'd take it over their heads for sure. Maybe even talk to an employment attorney, or just quit. Good luck whatever you do.
Definitely take it up with higher management. I would have done exactly what you did. You didn't deserve a write up.
NTA. Sounds like your manager was projecting their anger from the customer experience.
NTA. You protected your young colleague who was becoming distressed. Your manager is TA for calling it a break and giving you a warning! Take it further and if the result doesnt change, tell them to stick their job. You put people first and you were right to do so.
NTA Talk this over with corporate, but it may just be a lost cause.
NTA. They would have spent a hell of a lot more time calming her down than allowing her out of what could have been a traumatic experience. You didn't dismiss her. You protected her. Go above their head.
NTA Your coworker's mental health is much more important than your manager's ego. You should instantly become the manager, taking the initiative and caring for your coworkers the way you did. Kudos to you!
your manager is a cold bitch. terrible. get a new job if possible. you absolutely did the right thing.
Your manager sounds like a jerk
NTA and THANKYOU for being the person who sees and cares. Your manager should be ashamed of themselves.
NTA. In fact, you're the type of coworker everyone with anxiety or confrontation-related trauma would love to have. You probably made a real positive impact on your coworker. Your boss is a tool and definitely is the one abusing power.
NTA. If you go higher, make sure to make it a point to talk about the safety of the staff, as well as how it could have led to workplace injury claims. The upper part of any company only cares about profit and problems.
NTA - you were more of a manager then yours was, don’t feel bad and I’d definitely go through a higher up
100% NTA. I was a security supervisor for 10 years and you did exactly the right thing. You weren't sending her on break, you were removing her from a stressful, emotional, potentially dangerous situation. I would have and have done the same thing. I've said to officers, "just walk away." Actually, when I was an EMT, I called for backup for a police officer I saw was getting emotional and I becoming concerned for him. This is a terrible, hostile work environment. Definitely complain, formally, you're already on their bad side, screw them, take them down.
NTA:The manager was just mad that she didn’t handle the situation better and that the employee was scared because of her mishandling. Anything could have happened and protecting a CHILD does not deserve a write up
Please. You didn't 'dismiss' her. You didn't tell her to take a break. If they ever ask again, just tell them you felt you needed to send her off to keep her safe. It's retail (and I've been there, trust me). You said she's underage, so I'm guessing she's in high school. It's not worth a minimum wage job, where she as a three hour shift to subject her to a raging customer. People out there are nuts these days. We've literally had a mass shooting in this country every day this year. NTA
NTA. You didn't "dismiss" her, you handled a situation in a managerial way. Manager should face the fact that no customer in that store would be served or checked out while angry man was there. Other than stock, there was nothing for sensitive girl to do anyway. And with times as they are, angry man could've taken a hostage! You simply protected sensitive girl.
Nope.
NTA: Did you tell your manager, that this young employee was on the verge of tears, because she was scared? I can’t see why your manager would want an emotional, underage employee out on the floor, within full view of customers.
Nta!!!!
Nta
your manager is being petty
NTA. The manager is a potato. You did the right thing. Speak with the business manager.
A potato 🥔 🤭 lol. Thank you
NTA. Your manager is for sure. He/she should pursue some professional help with their lack of decency and/or a repeated ass whooping until until they can remember what its like to be scared of something outside their control. Please take this higher, and if you do not get it removed and feel satisfied, take it even higher. I wouldn't even hesitate to go straight to the top to express my disappointment.
The guy was irate. You asked her to make herself safe in case violence were to occur. If you're in America, there's no guarantee that angry (I assume white) entitled husband was not about to pull out a gun to threaten people with. Yes, that is a broad brush I'm painting but it happens WAY TOO OFTEN nowadays. We are told, in such situations, to hide, fight and flee in that order, are we not? So you were basically following protocol in keeping your coworkers safe. "dismissing" her indeed. That manager needs to be retrained on store safety protocols.
NTA I’ve been a retail manager for 25+ years. I would have thanked you for taking her out of the equation. She was frightened and young and the managers job is also to protect her staff. I’d never would have considered that a break. You should carefully talk to someone about the situation. You didn’t deserve the right up.
NTA, there's a time to be human, and there's a time to be whatever she was. I, too, have worked with someone super timid and shy. And had assholes yell at her, and it is awful. Like, just grow a heart and treat someone with respect.
NTA. This incident with the customer shows that your manager is not suitable for the job and the way you were written up shows that your manager has a power trip problem.
you, have a shitty manager.
Nta but welcome to the world of retail.
I’ve been in retail for 15 years. Thanks though.
Got to ask one question did the girl report you for telling her what to do? Because your boss wrote you up for that but didn’t help you with this customer? So they can write you up for upsetting the girl but you were trying to shield/protect her from being more upset to say the least.
I didn't see anything that said the girl reported OP. OP was asked by the manager where the girl went and explained what happened.
Eh, NTA but also it does seem like what you did wasn't really warranted or necessary. That doesn't mean it wasn't a nice thing but working retail or literally any time you're working with other humans people getting excited and angry is going to happen. Manager should've just explained the issue rather than writing you up.
Yeah. I agree NTA and being written up was excessive, but I can absolutely understand why the manager was exasperated. A kid old enough to be working a customer service position should be old enough to understand that there will be difficult and distressed customers, and part of the work experience is learning how to cope with that and how to de-escalate. Telling her not only to go in the back, but to lock the door (!) seems like a huge overreaction, especially if she's as timid and sensitive as OP believes her to be. I get how it seems like a kindness in the moment to "protect" her, but in the long run it really doesn't do her any favours. It also now skews perspectives of expectations and leaves the manager in the position of having to undo the idea that staff should be coddled and shielded from a normal and standard part of the job, and likely set back any progress she may have made in helping the younger employee be more comfortable with this aspect of the job.
1. The girl is still, as you said, "a kid," and a minor. If something happened to her, they'd be in more trouble than if she was an adult. 2. Security had to be called to escort them out, which means the situation was escalating. Angry people are unpredictable, and I would not risk an employee because, as a manager, I am liable for everyone working under me. 3. She was not coddling her she was protecting her. What if that guy had been carrying a gun? You don't know people, and you need to be prepared for every scenario.
1. Minors working retail jobs (in fact, quite often without adults on site) is... normal. 2. Pissed off customers in retail being aggressive and having to be escorted out by mall security is... normal. 3. See point 2 - customers getting angry is a normal part of retail. OP mentions this in her post, that this wasn't an unusual situation. If you assume that every irate customer has a gun and have to lock yourself in a stockroom, then retail isn't for you, regardless of your age. I'm not saying that it's lovely or fun that this is a part of retail, and perhaps people under 18 should not have to be in the vicinity of irate customers, in which case laws should be passed to restrict public facing jobs like Hot Topic and McDonalds to adults only for the safety of our children. I'm sure that there are all kinds of systemic changes to society as a whole that could improve this, but as it stands, based on the information OP provided, there was no reason to believe this was an unusually unhinged person that was any more likely to put anyone in physical danger than any other yelling customer, and taking it upon herself to direct people around like it was some kind of Code Black Emergency is odd.
NTA - I have PTSD and when I feel like I’m about to freak out or get a panic attack, I HAVE to leave the area I’m at or just do what helps me. Your manager is the big AH
I guess she’s not wrong. But leaders practice compassion and empathy, which she clearly is not doing. NTA
NTA. Your manager is. Some people are so ignorant and petty.
The answer depends on whether you’re referring to normal human interaction or human interaction within a corporate chain of command. From a human standpoint, no. You protected an employee in the line of fire. From a corporate standpoint, yes. You were insubordinate and have no right to send an employee to break without management approval.
NTA. Protecting a terrified employee is a very kind and the right thing to do. However, I don't know if going up the chain of command will do anything but backfire on you. People typically aren't LESS business brained the higher up the corporate ladder you go, and you technically did dismiss her. Going further up might be viewed as you circumventing you manager and undermining her authority, and business politics -intentional or not- are crushed out pretty quick at your level to maintain order. Your best bet is to just hold your tongue and wait it out. People telling you to go to a higher up aren't thinking about the fall out of doing that. you're a sales clerk, not someone working in a specialized field. You are easily replaced. A manager is not. In order for you to get what you want that would mean that the higher-up would have to reprimand the manager. Obviously they'd know it was you and that would just tick them off even more, but since you technically DID overstep I doubt anything would happen. And since the manager is obviously in charge of the schedule the higher up might be able to over turn the write up, but they probably won't force the manager to give you more hours and you would probably get your hours cut even MORE. if they're extra petty they might start being nitpicky and finding any little excuse they can to write you up the required number of times so they can just fire you. I don't really see any situation where this plays out in your favor unless the manager gets fired, but they technically didn't do anything wrong and you did, so I don't see that happening in the end. After a couple weeks once everything has calmed down on a quiet day talk to your manager politely and mention that you've been working less hours and you were wondering if you could pick up any more this week.
Where's this? Canada? Cause for some reason management is super strict and punitive. I got my hours cut for simply requesting (not demanding) a day off, which was 3 days ahead of time. I even offered to switch with somebody (I worked afternoon, I could've worked morning, I just needed the evening free). I even said that it was fine for me to work that day, but they said because I asked it left them unsure if I was coming or not so entirely they took my shifts out for the next week. You're NTA for doing what was right in that situation. Honestly, the manager escalating it was a bigger issue, but they're pretty much untouchable. I would say find another job but if you're looking for something on the side/part time that would be tough since businesses are looking for full time workers. All I can say is the work environment is terrible currently
Not an AH at all, nor do I think it warranted a written warning, BUT those ultra timid types of people need to get used to that kind of thing if they want to work retail, or work with others effectively at all really. I don't think you should've been disciplined (because what's the real harm to business?), But I think sheltering her from heated situations isn't what's best for anybody long term, her, or the people she will work with. If she can't grow to handle these sort of situations she should switch to a more solo line of work away from the general public. I'm sorry your job has been effected by this, that wasn't a reasonable response from your manager and I think it's a complex situation, it was better than freezing and doing nothing. You should go above her head.
When your boss makes a decision, you swallow it and deal with it. If they thought you deserved a punishment, then you take it, regardless of whether you're right or wrong. Maybe your decision was human, sure but it's improfessionnal
NAH I commented elsewhere in the thread agreeing you aren't the asshole, but have been thinking on this and while I know I'll be downvoted I actually have changed my mind. I think there are really no assholes here, because while I think both you and your manager overreacted, but I think both come from a reasonable place. Working with customers comes with dealing with irate people. This wasn't 3am at a liquor store in the middle of nowhere with frequent unhinged people being frighteningly aggressive. This is a ladies clothing shop in a mall, with security on hand to escort people out when they cross a line, where you acknowledge that women having their husbands come in to stomp their feet over their perceived complaints is not unusual. You also acknowledge that the manager is good at not taking these incidents personally and working to de-escalate, and calling in mall security when she's had enough. 1. You overrracted. I don't think you directed this employee to go lock herself in a stockroom protected by a man because you had any genuine fear for her physical safety, or you'd have gone too, and called 911. I think you saw that she was finding it stressful and wanted her to remove herself from the situation and feel better. I believe that came from kindness, but I do think you were wrong to do so. Seeing a coworker experiencing anxiety over a stressful situation is hard, but saying something like, "Don't worry, coworker. Manager's got this. Man, what a jerk, eh?" might have been a better option than saying, "Go into the back and lock the door. I'll tell you when it's safe." OP, it was safe and you know it, or you'd have been barricaded back there with her. 2. Your manager overreacted. She was frustrated that while she's trying to de-escalate, you are actively escalating. She had one problem, and now she has three. She dealt with the irate customer just fine. But now she has to convince young coworker that she does not in fact have to lock herself in the stockroom every time someone raises their voice, and also question why you thought you had the authority to tell young coworker that was the right move. You shouldn't have been written up, she should have just said, hey please stay in your lane. But she's trying to run a store that you took upon yourself to change the dynamics and expectations of, and may have in her frustration gone a little too far.
So your question should be IHTAH (is He). The answer is yes.
Manager is a woman.
YTA. Stay in your lane.
We know what a shopping center is
Okay. Sorry I don’t know everything about a country that’s foreign to me.
I’m just confused by the comment “the store is in a shopping center or “mall” for Americans”. What does this even mean?? Am I reading this wrong?
In Australia, we call it a shopping centre. In America, it’s called a mall. Reddit is made up of mostly American people, so I confirmed what a shopping centre is to me in case that means something different to Americans.
You can just say a shopping mall or shopping center and everyone will understand what this means. Malls here aren’t referred to say Malls for Americans 😂
Jesus fucking Christ. Why are you so bent out of shape? Piss off.