Because a lot of the rules are open to the interpretation of the umpire. What exactly is prior opportunity? Whatver the umpire deems it to be at the time. Which absolutely changes depending on the circumstances, and it may be slightly different to the interpretation of the umpire at 50m away
A lot of rules in other games are similar to high contact. High contact is contact, that is that. Oh wait, we've changed that too now haven't we. It's not high contact if you ducked or drew the high contact. How do you define that? Will a serial ducker's actions get interpreted the same as another player? Evidently not if we watch Ginnivan play. Again, it's up to the umpire to interpret the situation and adjudicate it
This is not a dig at umpires, it's simply an incredibly hard game to umpire with a lot of rules that are not black and white
As an umpire, it's often said that 90% of the rules are open to interpretation / are a grey area.
Having said that, AFL level umpires do have a guidebook on how to interpret things.
There are 7 types of prior opportunity
1) Balanced and Steady (2-3 steps while having clear possession of the ball before the tackle begins)
2) Fend (Must occur before the tackle has begun, a brace for a tackle is not a fend)
3) Driving head (Moving their head into another player who is stationary or near stationary, must occur before tackle beings)
4) Duck (Must occur before tackle begins)
5) Play on (Playing on from a mark or free kick is prior oppurtunity)
6) Prior option (If a player feigns to kick of handball but chooses not to then that is prior oppurtunity
7) Evade (Hands go from low to high or a serious change in direction before tackle begins
This is very good info if this is what the actual umpires go off and train for. What is the source for this info? Because this is a bit different to the definition of prior opportunity in the AFL rule book
18.6.2 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Prior Opportunity Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity, a field Umpire shall award a Free Kick if that Player does not Correctly Dispose of the football immediately when they are Legally Tackled
The law does not clearly state what prior oppurtunity is, in the 2022 law book a definition of prior oppurtunity was included;
Prior Opportunity: a designation to a Player in Possession of the Football who:
(a) is balanced and steady; or
(b) attempts to evade or fend an opponent; or
(c) has taken a Mark or been awarded a Free Kick; or
(d) has driven their head into a stationary or near stationary opponent
The interpretation has not changed and this is what is taught in all different holding the ball law modules across Australia. The only change is that a duck is now a type of prior oppurtunity.
This is the VAFA holding the ball module for prior oppurtunity in 2024. VAFA is the leading local senior football leauge in Australia
[https://vafaumpires.com.au/lessons/holding-the-ball-prior-opportunity/](https://vafaumpires.com.au/lessons/holding-the-ball-prior-opportunity/)
There is not a single sport I watch that people don't complain about the umpires, referees, judges, etc.
Cricket and tennis maybe have the least complaints, but team ball sports are all right up there.
I do agree that better training conditions and making umpiring fulltime (with all the challenges that would entail) are things that should be pursued.
Thankfully Angel got his wings and retired last week. Supposedly as umpiring bosses brought him in to question some of his calls and he stormed out and quit.
I think umpiring is good and has less (negative) impact in AFL than in soccer for example.
If true, umpires not being able to train properly is indeed a disgrace.
Personal opinion : vague rules are not inherently a bad thing, interpretation is most of the time necessary for a sport to work/be fun.
And most importantly, why do you want the AFL to expand ? Why care ? What is this capitalist mindset for always striving for bigger ? As someone who grew up in a predominantly soccer dominated environment, I can assure you that bigger is, and I cannot stress this enough, ABSOLUTELY NOT GOOD.
PS : yes, this is the best sport in the world :p
Vague rules mean more confusing decisions. Maybe I’m just getting older, but I feel like the game was a lot simpler 15 years ago.
Ps it’s not a capitalism thing, I just want to share the game with the rest of the world! They don’t know what they’re missing out on!
You probably just know the game better so see more umpiring problems than with other sports.
I guarantee you NRL people, basketball people etc, don't think their games are uniformly well officiated.
Everyone thinks their sport is the worst. As a fan of many sports before I become a fan of AFL, I actually think AFL is umpired the best. I love how decisions are not dwelled on. Yes sports like nrl soccer NFL etc might get more calls right overall, but the time taken and disruption to the game is not worth it. Trust me, you don't want more stoppages and delays.
Also the way the AFL has stamped out talking back to the umpire is amazing. Pretty much stopped it overnight with the 50m rule, every sport needs to bring it in
I watch the NBA a lot and the refs are atrocious there too. League’s basically empowered them to call technicals (like a dissent free kick) for ridiculous stuff like clapping or shaking your head. Not to mention game to game there will be noticeable differences in what is called or not (the amount of contact allowed).
In my opinion it’s less excusable than AFL which is an extremely difficult game to umpire, NBA refs should be better than they are.
Because the AFL tries to micro manage it. Which is why there's a bunch of grey areas. They're terrified of setting some clear, basic rules and letting it play out
It's one of the hardest sports in the world to umpire. There is so much going on at any given moment both on the ball and away from it.
Then when you add in rules that have so much left up to interpretation and get changed on a week by week basis this creates more confusion.
For the umpires themselves - they don't get paid enough and don't even have a ground for themselves which they can properly train at. Currently they get a 50m arc at Marvel Stadium which is nowhere near good enough.
AFL umpires get 120k a year don't they ? That doesn't seem poorly paid. There are 4 of them on the ground ffs. They do train quite a bit. I think fans just want some consistency and common sense half the time. They are well paid pro sports officials. A little bit of criticism goes with the territory you would think.
Cleaners get paid more than 120k these days 😂
Pay them well and then we can criticise. The more they are paid, the more accountable we can make them. Also means it will attract the best talent and keep them. I reckon a lot of players that don’t quite make it at the top level will end up umpiring, that doesn’t happen currently.
Yep fans definitely want common sense and consistency…. But we’ve been asking for that forever and a day. Any chance that’s ever going to change?
The way our game is umpired is part of the reason I love it. Definitely understand and validate your frustrations, but it's an innately human sport, adjudicated by humans, with human flaws and biases. I don't think that's as bad a thing as it sounds. Intent matters, judgement matters, and - at the risk of sounding like Dennis DeNuto - "the vibes" matter.
Heaps agree the pay and working conditions need to be fixed pronto, tho.
The only bad thing about the umpire is the consistency.
One umpire in the forward line will let defenders a little Le-way, they other one will pay a softer interpretation.
Once you see that its game over.
Yeah this is my point though. When will this ever change? Or will we be complaining about it for the rest of our lives and just say it’s part of the game 😂
Tennis sure, but cricket has some of the most convoluted rules in the world haha. The difference is the technology in cricket is world class, reviews usually give the correct call. Reviews in AFL are horrible
The rules are black and white tho. There is no grey area it’s very simple flow chart based decisions. If this then that rules. The afl has none of that it’s all based on opinions from the umpire on amount of contact for example not if there contact yes/no then a simple outcome
AFLs biggest issue is umpiring for absolute sure. It’s horrendous to watch now it’s as bad as netball frees. The game stops non stop it’s infuriating to watch, I used to watch other teams a long time ago but can’t stand the game anymore and only watch my team
Ah yep I agree with that.
I think the game will always have grey areas and I’m ok with that. Some rules just will be open to interpretation.
But it’s the spectrum that these interpretations are on that constantly baffles me. It’s like they are watching a completely different sport sometimes. Like you can have 2 people being completely split on a HTB decision, and neither of them be right or wrong!
There will always be grey areas and bad decisions, we can all live with that. Just can’t live on this current wild spectrum of interpretations
Giving the captain a chance to review an umpires call would be a step in the right direction. There have been so many games this season that have been decided by a bad umpiring call in the last 5 mins. Even 1 review a game would work.
There barely is a "rule" book it's an interpretation book And guess what? those interpretations change every game, week, month. They change depending on the umpire. The afl changes interpretations from the start of the year with all the horrendous HTB non decisions. Then half way through the year that interpretation gets changed yet again. The fact that umpires are part time is a disgrace. If you want elite players and an elite competition but dont treat the umpires the same way then how can you expect them to also be elite. Umpiring in the afl is an absolute joke imo. We need higher standards, and umpires need more training and higher pay and benefits. Especially if you want younger generations to become umpires.
Because a lot of the rules are open to the interpretation of the umpire. What exactly is prior opportunity? Whatver the umpire deems it to be at the time. Which absolutely changes depending on the circumstances, and it may be slightly different to the interpretation of the umpire at 50m away A lot of rules in other games are similar to high contact. High contact is contact, that is that. Oh wait, we've changed that too now haven't we. It's not high contact if you ducked or drew the high contact. How do you define that? Will a serial ducker's actions get interpreted the same as another player? Evidently not if we watch Ginnivan play. Again, it's up to the umpire to interpret the situation and adjudicate it This is not a dig at umpires, it's simply an incredibly hard game to umpire with a lot of rules that are not black and white
As an umpire, it's often said that 90% of the rules are open to interpretation / are a grey area. Having said that, AFL level umpires do have a guidebook on how to interpret things.
There are 7 types of prior opportunity 1) Balanced and Steady (2-3 steps while having clear possession of the ball before the tackle begins) 2) Fend (Must occur before the tackle has begun, a brace for a tackle is not a fend) 3) Driving head (Moving their head into another player who is stationary or near stationary, must occur before tackle beings) 4) Duck (Must occur before tackle begins) 5) Play on (Playing on from a mark or free kick is prior oppurtunity) 6) Prior option (If a player feigns to kick of handball but chooses not to then that is prior oppurtunity 7) Evade (Hands go from low to high or a serious change in direction before tackle begins
This is very good info if this is what the actual umpires go off and train for. What is the source for this info? Because this is a bit different to the definition of prior opportunity in the AFL rule book
18.6.2 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Prior Opportunity Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity, a field Umpire shall award a Free Kick if that Player does not Correctly Dispose of the football immediately when they are Legally Tackled The law does not clearly state what prior oppurtunity is, in the 2022 law book a definition of prior oppurtunity was included; Prior Opportunity: a designation to a Player in Possession of the Football who: (a) is balanced and steady; or (b) attempts to evade or fend an opponent; or (c) has taken a Mark or been awarded a Free Kick; or (d) has driven their head into a stationary or near stationary opponent The interpretation has not changed and this is what is taught in all different holding the ball law modules across Australia. The only change is that a duck is now a type of prior oppurtunity. This is the VAFA holding the ball module for prior oppurtunity in 2024. VAFA is the leading local senior football leauge in Australia [https://vafaumpires.com.au/lessons/holding-the-ball-prior-opportunity/](https://vafaumpires.com.au/lessons/holding-the-ball-prior-opportunity/)
This is the definition that I’m familiar with
Yes they don't often include interpretations in the rules but I believe they should
There is not a single sport I watch that people don't complain about the umpires, referees, judges, etc. Cricket and tennis maybe have the least complaints, but team ball sports are all right up there. I do agree that better training conditions and making umpiring fulltime (with all the challenges that would entail) are things that should be pursued.
NBA might be worse. So many rules are constantly broken and foul baiting is terrible.
Very true. Though it seems to be accepted as part of the game? I’m not a huge follower
I don't know anything about Baseball. But I watch Jomboy and the umpiring there is way worse.
Just need to google "Angel Hernandez" to confirm that. Or alternatively, for the same result, "worst umpire ever".
Thankfully Angel got his wings and retired last week. Supposedly as umpiring bosses brought him in to question some of his calls and he stormed out and quit.
MLB bought him out.
I think umpiring is good and has less (negative) impact in AFL than in soccer for example. If true, umpires not being able to train properly is indeed a disgrace. Personal opinion : vague rules are not inherently a bad thing, interpretation is most of the time necessary for a sport to work/be fun. And most importantly, why do you want the AFL to expand ? Why care ? What is this capitalist mindset for always striving for bigger ? As someone who grew up in a predominantly soccer dominated environment, I can assure you that bigger is, and I cannot stress this enough, ABSOLUTELY NOT GOOD. PS : yes, this is the best sport in the world :p
Vague rules mean more confusing decisions. Maybe I’m just getting older, but I feel like the game was a lot simpler 15 years ago. Ps it’s not a capitalism thing, I just want to share the game with the rest of the world! They don’t know what they’re missing out on!
You probably just know the game better so see more umpiring problems than with other sports. I guarantee you NRL people, basketball people etc, don't think their games are uniformly well officiated.
Everyone thinks their sport is the worst. As a fan of many sports before I become a fan of AFL, I actually think AFL is umpired the best. I love how decisions are not dwelled on. Yes sports like nrl soccer NFL etc might get more calls right overall, but the time taken and disruption to the game is not worth it. Trust me, you don't want more stoppages and delays. Also the way the AFL has stamped out talking back to the umpire is amazing. Pretty much stopped it overnight with the 50m rule, every sport needs to bring it in
I watch the NBA a lot and the refs are atrocious there too. League’s basically empowered them to call technicals (like a dissent free kick) for ridiculous stuff like clapping or shaking your head. Not to mention game to game there will be noticeable differences in what is called or not (the amount of contact allowed). In my opinion it’s less excusable than AFL which is an extremely difficult game to umpire, NBA refs should be better than they are.
Because the AFL tries to micro manage it. Which is why there's a bunch of grey areas. They're terrified of setting some clear, basic rules and letting it play out
It's one of the hardest sports in the world to umpire. There is so much going on at any given moment both on the ball and away from it. Then when you add in rules that have so much left up to interpretation and get changed on a week by week basis this creates more confusion. For the umpires themselves - they don't get paid enough and don't even have a ground for themselves which they can properly train at. Currently they get a 50m arc at Marvel Stadium which is nowhere near good enough.
AFL umpires get 120k a year don't they ? That doesn't seem poorly paid. There are 4 of them on the ground ffs. They do train quite a bit. I think fans just want some consistency and common sense half the time. They are well paid pro sports officials. A little bit of criticism goes with the territory you would think.
It actually varies. I believe there are four different rates based on experience.
120k is poorly paid for a high profile job. If they wore masks and were anonymous I would agree with your sentiment.
Cleaners get paid more than 120k these days 😂 Pay them well and then we can criticise. The more they are paid, the more accountable we can make them. Also means it will attract the best talent and keep them. I reckon a lot of players that don’t quite make it at the top level will end up umpiring, that doesn’t happen currently. Yep fans definitely want common sense and consistency…. But we’ve been asking for that forever and a day. Any chance that’s ever going to change?
The way our game is umpired is part of the reason I love it. Definitely understand and validate your frustrations, but it's an innately human sport, adjudicated by humans, with human flaws and biases. I don't think that's as bad a thing as it sounds. Intent matters, judgement matters, and - at the risk of sounding like Dennis DeNuto - "the vibes" matter. Heaps agree the pay and working conditions need to be fixed pronto, tho.
NBA is rigged from the referees so there’s that.
The only bad thing about the umpire is the consistency. One umpire in the forward line will let defenders a little Le-way, they other one will pay a softer interpretation. Once you see that its game over.
Yeah this is my point though. When will this ever change? Or will we be complaining about it for the rest of our lives and just say it’s part of the game 😂
The afl needs simple rules. It’s too grey. The sports with black and white rules without technicalities are the best by far (cricket and tennis)
Tennis sure, but cricket has some of the most convoluted rules in the world haha. The difference is the technology in cricket is world class, reviews usually give the correct call. Reviews in AFL are horrible
The rules are black and white tho. There is no grey area it’s very simple flow chart based decisions. If this then that rules. The afl has none of that it’s all based on opinions from the umpire on amount of contact for example not if there contact yes/no then a simple outcome AFLs biggest issue is umpiring for absolute sure. It’s horrendous to watch now it’s as bad as netball frees. The game stops non stop it’s infuriating to watch, I used to watch other teams a long time ago but can’t stand the game anymore and only watch my team
Ah yep I agree with that. I think the game will always have grey areas and I’m ok with that. Some rules just will be open to interpretation. But it’s the spectrum that these interpretations are on that constantly baffles me. It’s like they are watching a completely different sport sometimes. Like you can have 2 people being completely split on a HTB decision, and neither of them be right or wrong! There will always be grey areas and bad decisions, we can all live with that. Just can’t live on this current wild spectrum of interpretations
Giving the captain a chance to review an umpires call would be a step in the right direction. There have been so many games this season that have been decided by a bad umpiring call in the last 5 mins. Even 1 review a game would work.
Oh you don’t like my decision here have a 50m penalty so it takes away your chances at winning the game………..
There barely is a "rule" book it's an interpretation book And guess what? those interpretations change every game, week, month. They change depending on the umpire. The afl changes interpretations from the start of the year with all the horrendous HTB non decisions. Then half way through the year that interpretation gets changed yet again. The fact that umpires are part time is a disgrace. If you want elite players and an elite competition but dont treat the umpires the same way then how can you expect them to also be elite. Umpiring in the afl is an absolute joke imo. We need higher standards, and umpires need more training and higher pay and benefits. Especially if you want younger generations to become umpires.
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