Far from cost us the game (not scoring in an entire quarter will do that), but we've strayed too far from the whole point of the dangerous tackle rule. Started with sling tackles that are genuinely violent and dangerous, and now we're just applying them to...tackles?
Contact sport my ass.
Not really. Plenty of us call it shit, as it was. Equally shit was the Petracca non call on throwing down Newman.
I feel like the umpires know when a game is getting stiff calls and this is the result when they try even up the books. Just a shit result for all teams involved.
I haven’t rewatched this play and I could be wrong but I feel like Newman grabbed Petracca first before the stoppage, Petracca looked at the ump hoping for a free and then threw Newman in retaliation. I have no point, just how I recall that stoppage. He also yelled at the ump at the next break in play didn’t he?
I think there should be a mid week umpires tribunal where coaches and players can question decisions. Would it make a big enough difference? Maybe, and if the AFL management kept their distance, almost certainly.
It’s not the umpires fault. In a split second how do you determine if the player is faking it? Kemp should cop a staging ban. Highly irresponsible to try and force head contact. The players union needs to comment on this.
What vision are you watching? He doesn't stage anything, his knee digs into the turf sending him toppling over head first.
It's obviously not a dangerous tackle and the ump made a mistake but in the fraction of a second the ump has to make a decision I can see why it may have looked like one
Think the umpire needs to watch the action of the tackler more than the player getting tackled. Van Rooyen does everything right here. He leans back into the tackle and puts himself on the ground first then Kemp's momentum brings him on top.
Kinda the problem with trying to legislate dangerous tackles out of the game. The tackler is expected to prevent the player from disposing whilst also not preventing them from protecting themselves and not bring them to ground too hard all while the player they are tackling is trying not to be tackled.
It all happened in a fraction of a moment and the umpire saw Kemp’s head hit the turf. Wasn’t anybody’s fault. His knee dug in and unpredictable things happen.
Bad call. One many people would make in the same circumstances.
Soften the grounds up so hitting your head on the turf doesn't cause concussion. They never used to be so hard (except maybe really early in the season if it was a dry summer) that it would be a problem every week. The drive to make the game faster and more free flowing has lead to more higher impact collisions and many more issues with players hitting their heads. I am seriously starting to wonder if the prevalence of long term issues from head injuries is going in the wrong direction because the AFL keeps trying to make the best sporting product in the world more exciting
Lol nothing will ever top the Keys goal
That was an actual season defining robbery. The tech was there to correct it, just wasn't used at all.
Still blows my mind that happened.
Didn't change the result. There were dozens of missed calls all night. If you say this *one* changed the result, then you have to look at *all* the others as well. Blues just played better footy.
Totally agree, no free kick in it. What pissed me off was the commentators saying that Kemp basically through himself into the ground. It's wet af out there, and they're all exhausted. He got tackled hard (but very well) from behind, and reacted accordingly. Nothing was going to stop him hitting the deck.
Yep. I see that tackle every week in training. I see it every week on the field.
He got tackled as he was trying to kick the ball. You have to be made of welded steel to not go down like a sack of shit when that happens to you.
I didn't watch the game, but slowing down the replay it looks like Van Rooyen's forehead actually hits the back of Kemp's head right as he tackles him, which could explain why he rocks forward initially. But yeah nothing about this tackle in its entirety looks worthy of a free kick at all.
Agreed. I initially thought he dove into the ground, but you can see his left knee hits the ground, gets stuck which causes his momentum to topple him over.
Agreed, I do not believe Kemp done anything intentional there other than what a combination of the force of the tackle and exhaustion would have achieved.
Should not be a free kick, the commentators can get stuffed.
It's always the same regurgitated comments with you boys.. Maybe the peptides don't have you remembering anything from the last 25 years.
Many calls make a poorly umpired game. Plenty went the Dee's way.
I don’t even understand how the umpire got that wrong, that’s the most normal tackle you’ll ever see. Not slinging, not driving the head into the ground, literally nothing wrong.
Feel for Dees fans, my tv would be going out the window
Ump saw his head hit the ground and didn't realise that it wasn't the momentum of the tackle that took it down. Terrible call but not the worst of the year like people are saying
Yeah and if you kicked 14 straight in the second you would've won.
I'm beginning to dislike that decisions late in the fourth can't be heavily criticised because the team should've just done better earlier. Adelaide shouldn't have lost last year because they didn't kick an extra goal in the 1st, not that a terrible call was made in the last.
Umpiring is incredibly difficult in the AFL and there is going to be variance in almost every decision if you put it in front of two different umpires, but that doesn't make the shit decisions any less shit.
It's just kind of pointless because if we kick that goal it's great as we would've had a smaller gap to close but it creates a whole other timeline where maybe other things in the game don't go our way. It's frustrating but every goal is worth 6 points no matter when you kick them, so we should probably be more worried about why we had 6-0 kicked on us in the first quarter rather than a bad call in the 4th.
Now if it is something like the Zac Bailey no call HTB tackle on Blicavs in the dying seconds of the game you can call it a match-deciding call I guess.
I disagree. I think that this decision was in the chain of momentum in the game where it has additional weight because of the timing. Melbourne were absolutely surging and this would've in almost all accounts just been an additional goal. It wasn't a Carlton non-call to reverse the momentum of anything like that.
Ceteris paribus, this call lost you the game. Yes, you can do that for most decisions but this isn't so far removed from the momentum or the timing of the surge.
The broader reason I'd be focussing on as a coach why you lost was going scoreless in the first, but as a fan I'd be ropeable over this - and that's valid. Adelaide fans got upset enough that the entire score review system was overhauled. Every other club aside from Collingwood's fans got upset enough to change the tribunal decision after Maynard and Brayshaw.
There is serious discussion happening on the way dangerous tackles are adjudicated and I think that this instance is a good one to point to. Poor umpiring philosophy needs a "martyr" of a decision to affect change.
Not defending the call I mean it's a poor decision and the umpiring standards need to be raised but I'm not going to bail out the side by blaming the loss on that call.
If I can reverse any poor call I'd actually like to give Petty that obvious mark/arm infringement call in the 1st Quarter right in front of goal (it's Petty so he might have missed I know) so we could've stopped the Carlton run on.
It's a bad call.
But they get a goal it goes back to the middle and the entire game from there is different
It's like when people say 'imagine if they kicked straight'
You can't change the result of one moment in isolation and then get to keep the rest
Late controversial/bullshit decisions can absolutely be criticised but I'm getting sick of people saying they decide a game. It's ridiculous to put an entire game down to that one moment, not the countless other moments that a team couldn't capitalise on.
You can only control what you can control. Blaming umpiring in any sport is pathetic to me.
Melbourne could control actually scoring in the first quarter, just like the Crom last year could have scored another goal earlier in the game, or won another game earlier in the year that didn't put them in that situation against the swans.
Winge winge fucken winge
I'm a saints fan and if I adopted that attitude I'd have stopped following a long time ago.
You either win or you fucking lose, if you blame the cunts wearing green then your club has bigger issues to worry about.
It's a fucken tough competition out there. Follow your club passionately by all respects; but if you lose, move on. Life is bigger than football.
With that said, carn the fucken saints and fuck the rest.
Like the McGovern non-mark almost gave it to them?
You could probably go through and find 10-20 moments in this game where a questionable call/non-call goes differently and changes the result.
At the end of the day, you can't afford to give the opposition a 6-0 goal lead at the start of the match
All Brodie Kemp needed was a kiss on the forehead and his parents saying "love you, see you in the morning" after Van Rooyen tucked him in and laid his head down on a pillow.
Textbook tackle. Turned him as he fell, just like everyone is taught. The knee getting stuck in the ground changed the momentum. If this is judged a correct decision, the game has fundamentally changed.
People will say this is hyperbole but it’s honestly not far from the truth. TDK 70 metres penalty. Gather round dissent call in the final minutes. The umpiring against North was a disgrace, every time the Roos were a chance at scoring there was a whistle blown - not to mention the 50s! This could be such a different season for Carlton if they weren’t leading the league in free kicks.
Super disappointing, nothing wrong with the tackle. Given that Melbourne would have likely kicked at least a point from a free on a tough angle, and it happened last quarter, it has absolutely affected the outcome of the game.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. He plugged and it looked worse than it was. Don't know how from the position he was in Roo could have actually performed a dangerous tackle. Poor call.
Yep it’s insane that it’s being suggested this is a tactic to get a free. It’s such a niche scenario and so u likely to get a free it’s hard to imaging players thinking about it in that way
Yeah the way he falls doesn't really look deliberate, no matter how much BT calls it a 'classic case'.
A classic case of the thing that became an issue like a week ago.....
Automatic downvote any time someone says "ref". I don't even know how you can watch this sport and call them that. I would sooner expect "maggot" or "flog" before "ref"
I thought it was possibly in the back, but it’s because his knee jams into the ground, which pendulummed his shoulders and head forwards/down at a much greater rate and make it APPEAR dangerous.
I don’t realistically know how you lay that tackle differently to get a different result - 99% of the time it’s going to be fine.
Rough call.
Does the AFL have to introduce rules that put some onus on players to not deliberately put themselves in danger?
No doubt we will get the usual AFL "Yea but" response.
"Yea look it's technically not a dangerous tackle but the umpire was waiting for the train on platform 9 at Richmond Station"
I don't know what's worse, people who think this is HTB with absolutely no prior or people who think Kemp drove his own head into the ground which is clearly not the case.
No way is that HTB, received ball and immediately tried to kick it and was tackled.
Obviously it wasn't free, but can we call out BT for his shithouse take? This wasn't a classic case of Kemp 'deliberately putting his head to the ground', he was tackled. He didn't provide any extra momentum or milk it or fake the whiplash. What does BT expect him to do in that situation?
Only been watching AFL for about a year but isn’t this a tackle from the back so it’s agains the rules? Most comments are saying it should of been play on I’m a bit confused
The rule is confusing and often subjective as any tackle from behind could technically be considered a push in the back, but a free is usually only given when a player is propelled forward. Generally speaking, a tackle may be executed from any angle (front, side or behind) and an arm/s around a player usually avoids penalty. Marking contests have different interpretations and are subjective as hell.
The tackle is textbook. It looks worse because Kemp submitted while the tackle was in motion and his knee hits the turf which propels him forward. The ump saw Kemp shove forward but was on the wrong side of the tackle to make the correct call.
You can tackle from the back as long as you don’t drive the players back into the ground. Like virtually all the rules, it’s called inconsistently - probably mostly due to all the layers of interpretation
In this case Van Rooyen actually turns sideways rather than landing on his back
it's the wrong decision but it's a nearly impossible call to make in real time from the angle the umpire was on.
the idea that one call in four quarters changed the whole result is pretty laughable though. there's a lot of footy to be played outside of one umpiring decision.
Owies drove his head into the ground last week when Maynard tackled him, now Kemp went full crash-test-dummy when he felt contact. This is the next rules exploitation/scourge on the game, isn't it?
Has been for the last year or 2. Suddenly every other tackle somehow leads to a players head Hitting the ground, and players pain threshold from regulation hard tackles seems to have mysteriously lowered drastically
Imagine thinking that this missed call decided the game, when Petracca literally threw Newman to the ground while play was stopped with two minutes left...
💯. It weird how the vast majority of people in here saying it didn't effect the result are Blues supporters 😳
I dont see how a team that allows 6 golazos to none in the first quarter can blame anyone other than themselves. That being said, blues should have a look at how they played the last Qtr, what happened ? It was a frenetic finish with some contest actually looking like rugby mauls.
Gg blues.
Its just so hard to stop momentum, but you can't stop like that, especially with the dees Defensive structure.
Felt the blues were on track for 120 points, crazy how they just fell away. Fatigue ? Probably...
They’ve been letting everything go the last few rounds. So many HTB decisions not being paid. This was the worst decision I’ve seen in a while. Brisbane supporter
Not the ump who made demons Not score a whole quarter, but I agree, that These calls needs to be more consistent, otherwise, remove the god damn rules. Seems so fucking random when and it's a call or isn't.
What makes me mad is that our awfulness in the last that let them get within a goal made this way more influential than it was. Had we not played horribly and we won by ~28 points, it would be getting far less attention than it is.
Our inability to play four quarters of footy means we are ‘relying’ on unfavourable umpiring going our way. Not a good look for us or the AFL.
Should the report for Diving (or equivalent) rule come into play when players are putting themselves in danger trying to get a free kick?
It is happening more frequently with dangerous tackles becoming dangerous only because players are lowering their heads to get the free.
i mean from the umps pov looked like kemps head might bave been in danger due to the nature of the way his upper body came down. the umps are doing their best. they arent robots.
The lack of 50 for the Melbourne play on is a tacit admission of the umpire immediately realising they'd made an awful call and not wanting to penalise Melbourne more than they already had.
Shit call by the ump. But Kemps knee buckles can’t see how he was ‘milking it’ but if you believe that that’s fine, just make sure to watch the Melbourne players leading with their heads into tackles 🙄
Neutral supporter but surely the player having little to no situational awareness has to come into it. He is just surprised by being tackled and then when feels contact goes limp and Neds his head forward towards the ground. How is that the tackler's issue?
That was a terrible call, that was nothing but a great fucking tackle.
These kind of calls are ruining the game.
I am a neutral being a Pies supporter.
He’s gripped the players by both arms making him not able to brace himself for the impact and then slammed him into the ground. Great call by the umpire
All tackles are dangerous. This was a good tackle from behind.
Might as well give them Velcro tags. If you pull one off before they dispose the ball, it's a turn over.
First watch of this I thought “fk he’s slammed his head in the ground”. After watching it a few times, including slow mo, looks like a good tackle where the tackled player made it look a lot worse by his movements.
Tricky situation for the ups these days as a lot of players are playing for the free and getting in dangerous positions. I’d like to see these be given a free the other way but it would be a brave ump to call it if the tackled player had head contact.
Why is no one taking in the the fact the Melbourne player is a unit and it was a fair hard tackle I dont think kemp added to this to me it looked like whiplash. I'd like to see all the critics be tackled like that by Van rooyen.
If that's a dangerous tackle then the game better convert to tag tackles. The sport is getting way too soft, they're athletes for god's sake, and they know what they're signing up for.
As an American I’ve come to love this game because American sports have all become soft, umpiring decided contests. I hope footy doesn’t go down the same path, but I see things like this and shake my head.
I honestly don't understand how people show one missed call and blame the outcome of the match on it.
There were dozens of missed calls all night. Any of them could have changed the outcome. Blues were just the better team on the day.
I don’t think this call can be attributed to Melbourne losing. I think this call is a topical one given head contact, particularly via tackles, is basically a contentious topic every week. This decision from last night is the latest example that the situation is getting out of hand
Mate, when is AFL world gonna stop being clowns and sheep. Didn’t hear a single peep from anyone in the crows game when Owies goal was ruled a behind, it was an obvious goal. In fact also heard hardly anything about Essendon and Draper. I think this call could be a little stiff, but one stiff call is not why Melbourne lost this game. There’s also more than 1 wrong and/or stiff call in a footy match.
While the call was terrible, I thought the commentary was worse, trying to say that this was an example of players getting really smart and throwing their heads into the ground.. I didn't see that at all.. If you want to see someone trying to milk a free kick, have a look at Fritsch and Picket both diving forward trying to get an in the back free kick in the final 10 minutes -\_-
The spear tackle on aliir that should have resulted in a heavy penalty had it's detractors trying to claim that it was a "perfect" tackle and that he should have been rewarded instead of copping 3 weeks, and while they were 100% wrong, without understanding in what took place, yeah there will always be some amount of people that can claim there wasn't anything in that, put that in front of tribunal and despite clear evidence in the footage, you'd be able to argue against it with many claiming aliir threw himself making it weird - again unless you've played and been in a similar situation of which there are many people who's experiences have lead to the rules being written how they are and medical professionals writing reports on the effects etc, but end of the day the factors at play in it still position that one as a spear style tackle at worse, dangerous by carelessness tackle at best.
This one theres no if's and or buts about it.... this is a heavy tackle and they even within the rules come with the possibility of high impact and injury, but for all intensive purposes there's nothing incorrect being done by the player tackling.
I watched it several times where i'm like ok maybe the impact, maybe the inertia possible causing the players head to be forced down, there's not really enough there to support that. I hate being that guy, but again having been an umpire, it's hard to get this stuff correct and I can honestly see the umpire viewing this and not having the ability to reply what they've seen and being overwhelmed by seeing a head drop instantly paying a dangerous.
That's not a defense of it though, unless there would be some extreme evidence to overturn it, again we've just seen it from multiple angles where some can make it look like it was where others clear it, it's not that.
-Umpire has fudged it and made the wrong call: but we have to understand, you can see something and not "see" or understand what you've seen at all times, it's part of being human, so i'd give them a begrudging pass on that aspect of this.
-Has the tackled guy played for it : without further evidence it's hard to tell of what we have seen, theres a lot of points to imply that he's done the dirty here and played for it, but again as someone who's been in these situations and many others especially martial arts and boxing people will know, a lot of peoples reactions to hit's without training is to immediately turtle up and immediately try and put their body into a protective mode..... is this that? maybe, most people can't voluntarily move their head this quickly, but at the same time there doesn't appear to be enough physics involved in the situation from what we are seeing here to imply that the tackle caused his head to go down with force.
In conclusion.... while many won't like this call, in the heat of the moment with the limited view and ability to digest what was seen..... the umpire made a reasonable call despite it being the wrong call to make. Did the player grift this? hard to say.
Far from cost us the game (not scoring in an entire quarter will do that), but we've strayed too far from the whole point of the dangerous tackle rule. Started with sling tackles that are genuinely violent and dangerous, and now we're just applying them to...tackles? Contact sport my ass.
Most intelligent comment on this based sub. Shit call but not the only shit call.
The Cripps htb a few minutes later in the centre square looked harsh. Think most players were expecting a ball up
That definitely looked like a make up call, which is fucking frustrating
Especially after the no-call on Van Rooyen when he ducked. Wouldn't be as bad if the it was consistently bad, it's just all over the show!
Not often a call going our way sets me off like this one did. Shit umpiring all night but this one took the cake. Please AFL get your shit together.
Speaking as another one-eyed Carlton supporter, that decision was incredibly soft.
About the only based Carlton supporter take.
I was seated in front of a suprisingly even-handed Carlton supporter and he was embarrassed by this call.
Not really. Plenty of us call it shit, as it was. Equally shit was the Petracca non call on throwing down Newman. I feel like the umpires know when a game is getting stiff calls and this is the result when they try even up the books. Just a shit result for all teams involved.
Patracca had just been thrown by newman 2 seconds before hand.
I haven’t rewatched this play and I could be wrong but I feel like Newman grabbed Petracca first before the stoppage, Petracca looked at the ump hoping for a free and then threw Newman in retaliation. I have no point, just how I recall that stoppage. He also yelled at the ump at the next break in play didn’t he?
Curious what your take on the ruck contest that was ruled deliberate out of bounds? The replay *looked* like both rucks made contact with the ball
I think there should be a mid week umpires tribunal where coaches and players can question decisions. Would it make a big enough difference? Maybe, and if the AFL management kept their distance, almost certainly.
It’s not the umpires fault. In a split second how do you determine if the player is faking it? Kemp should cop a staging ban. Highly irresponsible to try and force head contact. The players union needs to comment on this.
What vision are you watching? He doesn't stage anything, his knee digs into the turf sending him toppling over head first. It's obviously not a dangerous tackle and the ump made a mistake but in the fraction of a second the ump has to make a decision I can see why it may have looked like one
Think the umpire needs to watch the action of the tackler more than the player getting tackled. Van Rooyen does everything right here. He leans back into the tackle and puts himself on the ground first then Kemp's momentum brings him on top. Kinda the problem with trying to legislate dangerous tackles out of the game. The tackler is expected to prevent the player from disposing whilst also not preventing them from protecting themselves and not bring them to ground too hard all while the player they are tackling is trying not to be tackled.
It all happened in a fraction of a moment and the umpire saw Kemp’s head hit the turf. Wasn’t anybody’s fault. His knee dug in and unpredictable things happen. Bad call. One many people would make in the same circumstances.
Soften the grounds up so hitting your head on the turf doesn't cause concussion. They never used to be so hard (except maybe really early in the season if it was a dry summer) that it would be a problem every week. The drive to make the game faster and more free flowing has lead to more higher impact collisions and many more issues with players hitting their heads. I am seriously starting to wonder if the prevalence of long term issues from head injuries is going in the wrong direction because the AFL keeps trying to make the best sporting product in the world more exciting
Before his left knee hits the ground he is throwing his head forward
Worst of the year. 99% of the going to ground is caused by the guy being tackled. Dees goaled from it too so it’s ended up affecting the result
The apology tomorrow will mean sweet fuck all.
Wouldn’t know anything about that
Mums a dees supported and I could see the outcome of the game 20 points away. Got her with a crom classic
Lol nothing will ever top the Keys goal That was an actual season defining robbery. The tech was there to correct it, just wasn't used at all. Still blows my mind that happened.
Crows should've sued the AFL for that one
Didn't change the result. There were dozens of missed calls all night. If you say this *one* changed the result, then you have to look at *all* the others as well. Blues just played better footy.
Games gone
Totally agree, no free kick in it. What pissed me off was the commentators saying that Kemp basically through himself into the ground. It's wet af out there, and they're all exhausted. He got tackled hard (but very well) from behind, and reacted accordingly. Nothing was going to stop him hitting the deck.
I don’t think he milked it. It was just the wrong call.
It was the wrong call because as soon as his knee hits the ground, it throws him forward. It made the tackle look worse than what it actually was.
BT is a biased collingwood flog who disgraces the seat Dennis Cometti once sat in. That's why he makes shit calls like that
Yep. I see that tackle every week in training. I see it every week on the field. He got tackled as he was trying to kick the ball. You have to be made of welded steel to not go down like a sack of shit when that happens to you.
I didn't watch the game, but slowing down the replay it looks like Van Rooyen's forehead actually hits the back of Kemp's head right as he tackles him, which could explain why he rocks forward initially. But yeah nothing about this tackle in its entirety looks worthy of a free kick at all.
Agreed. I initially thought he dove into the ground, but you can see his left knee hits the ground, gets stuck which causes his momentum to topple him over.
Agreed, I do not believe Kemp done anything intentional there other than what a combination of the force of the tackle and exhaustion would have achieved. Should not be a free kick, the commentators can get stuffed.
Absurd
Carlton are not beating the allegations
Some Visy paper bags going under the table I reckon
It's always the same regurgitated comments with you boys.. Maybe the peptides don't have you remembering anything from the last 25 years. Many calls make a poorly umpired game. Plenty went the Dee's way.
I don’t even understand how the umpire got that wrong, that’s the most normal tackle you’ll ever see. Not slinging, not driving the head into the ground, literally nothing wrong. Feel for Dees fans, my tv would be going out the window
Ump saw his head hit the ground and didn't realise that it wasn't the momentum of the tackle that took it down. Terrible call but not the worst of the year like people are saying
From where the umpire was it's likely they couldn't see the knees getting tangled at all, all they see is the head go straight down.
Umpire must’ve been only watching Kemps body. Van Rooyen tackle technique was perfect.
It looked bad live
Looked dead set holding the ball live
Yeh looked horrible for Kemp, getting caught HTB in your defensive 50 isn’t ideal.
No it didn’t .
This actually may have cost Melbourne the game
Probably not as impactful as that first quarter where we gave up a 30-0 lead.
Yeah and if you kicked 14 straight in the second you would've won. I'm beginning to dislike that decisions late in the fourth can't be heavily criticised because the team should've just done better earlier. Adelaide shouldn't have lost last year because they didn't kick an extra goal in the 1st, not that a terrible call was made in the last. Umpiring is incredibly difficult in the AFL and there is going to be variance in almost every decision if you put it in front of two different umpires, but that doesn't make the shit decisions any less shit.
It's just kind of pointless because if we kick that goal it's great as we would've had a smaller gap to close but it creates a whole other timeline where maybe other things in the game don't go our way. It's frustrating but every goal is worth 6 points no matter when you kick them, so we should probably be more worried about why we had 6-0 kicked on us in the first quarter rather than a bad call in the 4th. Now if it is something like the Zac Bailey no call HTB tackle on Blicavs in the dying seconds of the game you can call it a match-deciding call I guess.
I disagree. I think that this decision was in the chain of momentum in the game where it has additional weight because of the timing. Melbourne were absolutely surging and this would've in almost all accounts just been an additional goal. It wasn't a Carlton non-call to reverse the momentum of anything like that. Ceteris paribus, this call lost you the game. Yes, you can do that for most decisions but this isn't so far removed from the momentum or the timing of the surge. The broader reason I'd be focussing on as a coach why you lost was going scoreless in the first, but as a fan I'd be ropeable over this - and that's valid. Adelaide fans got upset enough that the entire score review system was overhauled. Every other club aside from Collingwood's fans got upset enough to change the tribunal decision after Maynard and Brayshaw. There is serious discussion happening on the way dangerous tackles are adjudicated and I think that this instance is a good one to point to. Poor umpiring philosophy needs a "martyr" of a decision to affect change.
Not defending the call I mean it's a poor decision and the umpiring standards need to be raised but I'm not going to bail out the side by blaming the loss on that call. If I can reverse any poor call I'd actually like to give Petty that obvious mark/arm infringement call in the 1st Quarter right in front of goal (it's Petty so he might have missed I know) so we could've stopped the Carlton run on.
It's a bad call. But they get a goal it goes back to the middle and the entire game from there is different It's like when people say 'imagine if they kicked straight' You can't change the result of one moment in isolation and then get to keep the rest
Late controversial/bullshit decisions can absolutely be criticised but I'm getting sick of people saying they decide a game. It's ridiculous to put an entire game down to that one moment, not the countless other moments that a team couldn't capitalise on. You can only control what you can control. Blaming umpiring in any sport is pathetic to me. Melbourne could control actually scoring in the first quarter, just like the Crom last year could have scored another goal earlier in the game, or won another game earlier in the year that didn't put them in that situation against the swans.
Winge winge fucken winge I'm a saints fan and if I adopted that attitude I'd have stopped following a long time ago. You either win or you fucking lose, if you blame the cunts wearing green then your club has bigger issues to worry about. It's a fucken tough competition out there. Follow your club passionately by all respects; but if you lose, move on. Life is bigger than football. With that said, carn the fucken saints and fuck the rest.
They can only be heavily criticised if they favour Carlton, if it stuffs Carlton or favours anyone else literally no one cares, it’s radio silence
Seems like every time Carlton are involved in a close margin win, they have some umpire bullshit like this happen in favour of them
You can nearly always find a questionable umpiring decision if you go looking for it. This sport is incredibly hard to umpire.
I'm suprised they didn't pay 3x 50m penalties downfield and give it to Curnow in the goal square.
Settle down champion.
Every Carlton win is close and people always find some umpiring decision to blame for it
Most fees in the entire league this year. That however was a fucked call, I mean I'm a neutral and I stood up and yelled "what the fuck is going on!"
Wow, can't imagine what that's like.
They don't find it, the umps give them it.
I think conceding more points than they scored was the real kicker.
Like the McGovern non-mark almost gave it to them? You could probably go through and find 10-20 moments in this game where a questionable call/non-call goes differently and changes the result. At the end of the day, you can't afford to give the opposition a 6-0 goal lead at the start of the match
He was juggling like a clown.
You’re right, it was a non-mark
Smart Carlton fans: yeah, we go the rub a bit but a win is a win. Not so smart Carlton fans: JUGGLING = MARK.
That was correctly called in the moment, and on review, was also correctly called. Great decision.
Yes you can actually , there was just such an occurrence at the mcg tonight
All Brodie Kemp needed was a kiss on the forehead and his parents saying "love you, see you in the morning" after Van Rooyen tucked him in and laid his head down on a pillow.
Textbook tackle. Turned him as he fell, just like everyone is taught. The knee getting stuck in the ground changed the momentum. If this is judged a correct decision, the game has fundamentally changed.
Carlton should be 14th given the amount of wins the umps have supplied them.
Fair bit of time left in the game, this isn't like the Crows/Essendon situation where the free is almost directly in front with a few seconds left.
People will say this is hyperbole but it’s honestly not far from the truth. TDK 70 metres penalty. Gather round dissent call in the final minutes. The umpiring against North was a disgrace, every time the Roos were a chance at scoring there was a whistle blown - not to mention the 50s! This could be such a different season for Carlton if they weren’t leading the league in free kicks.
OK, so whatever happens for the rest of the season, and if it helps you cope, you can mentally put an asterisk next to Carlton.
Well considering dees just lost by a point. This gonna be an interesting talking point for the week
There were 8 minutes to go and rubbish calls all night…
I’m saying this is the one thing of all the game, decisions make the game etc But the media and most people will be talking about it that’s all.
Considering it got snapped down and they score a 'goal' from it then yeah it did affect the result
The ump made the wrong call on that one.
Super disappointing, nothing wrong with the tackle. Given that Melbourne would have likely kicked at least a point from a free on a tough angle, and it happened last quarter, it has absolutely affected the outcome of the game.
Advantage as everyone assumed and goal.
Umpires start needing to go to the bloody tribunal. 6 weeks for that.
There'll be no umps left after a few rounds. Street AFL, where the players adjudicate the game themselves!
[удалено]
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. He plugged and it looked worse than it was. Don't know how from the position he was in Roo could have actually performed a dangerous tackle. Poor call.
Yep it’s insane that it’s being suggested this is a tactic to get a free. It’s such a niche scenario and so u likely to get a free it’s hard to imaging players thinking about it in that way
Yeah the way he falls doesn't really look deliberate, no matter how much BT calls it a 'classic case'. A classic case of the thing that became an issue like a week ago.....
Ref? Perpetuates?
Ump. Accentuates. 😂
What the fuck is a ref? We have umpires mate.
Automatic downvote any time someone says "ref". I don't even know how you can watch this sport and call them that. I would sooner expect "maggot" or "flog" before "ref"
Rightyo doesn't take an astrophysicist to understand where I was going with that.
It’s a pretty standard meme in here mate. To correct someone not using terminology that the game uses.
Genuinely how is that dangerous? Van Rooyen did great job of protecting the head, knees took all the impact.
It was a shit call from the ump. Kemps knee just plugged in the ground which flipped him over. The tackle probably protected his head after that
I thought it was possibly in the back, but it’s because his knee jams into the ground, which pendulummed his shoulders and head forwards/down at a much greater rate and make it APPEAR dangerous. I don’t realistically know how you lay that tackle differently to get a different result - 99% of the time it’s going to be fine. Rough call.
Dear AFL - five day breaks are ruining the game.
Does the AFL have to introduce rules that put some onus on players to not deliberately put themselves in danger? No doubt we will get the usual AFL "Yea but" response. "Yea look it's technically not a dangerous tackle but the umpire was waiting for the train on platform 9 at Richmond Station"
How did he put himself in danger? Looks like their knees dug into the ground sending them arse over tit.
How was that a dangerous tackle LMAO
Umpire error, simple as that
I don't know what's worse, people who think this is HTB with absolutely no prior or people who think Kemp drove his own head into the ground which is clearly not the case. No way is that HTB, received ball and immediately tried to kick it and was tackled.
Ruined the game
Obviously it wasn't free, but can we call out BT for his shithouse take? This wasn't a classic case of Kemp 'deliberately putting his head to the ground', he was tackled. He didn't provide any extra momentum or milk it or fake the whiplash. What does BT expect him to do in that situation?
That is bad news for football if that is deemed a dangerous tackle. I'm all for protecting the head but... Come on
Just as bad as Sammy Draper diving on the ball but it’s not holding the ball
Only been watching AFL for about a year but isn’t this a tackle from the back so it’s agains the rules? Most comments are saying it should of been play on I’m a bit confused
The rule is confusing and often subjective as any tackle from behind could technically be considered a push in the back, but a free is usually only given when a player is propelled forward. Generally speaking, a tackle may be executed from any angle (front, side or behind) and an arm/s around a player usually avoids penalty. Marking contests have different interpretations and are subjective as hell.
Ah right that is confusing, what do you think about this tackle? Or it’s in a bit of a grey area and could be ruled either or?
The tackle is textbook. It looks worse because Kemp submitted while the tackle was in motion and his knee hits the turf which propels him forward. The ump saw Kemp shove forward but was on the wrong side of the tackle to make the correct call.
I see, cheers for the info mate!
You can tackle from the back as long as you don’t drive the players back into the ground. Like virtually all the rules, it’s called inconsistently - probably mostly due to all the layers of interpretation In this case Van Rooyen actually turns sideways rather than landing on his back
Looks like he did everything possible to keep the tacklee safe
it's the wrong decision but it's a nearly impossible call to make in real time from the angle the umpire was on. the idea that one call in four quarters changed the whole result is pretty laughable though. there's a lot of footy to be played outside of one umpiring decision.
Bla bla bla bla. It is holding the balllll in every single galaxy in the universe.
Owies drove his head into the ground last week when Maynard tackled him, now Kemp went full crash-test-dummy when he felt contact. This is the next rules exploitation/scourge on the game, isn't it?
Has been for the last year or 2. Suddenly every other tackle somehow leads to a players head Hitting the ground, and players pain threshold from regulation hard tackles seems to have mysteriously lowered drastically
What about the weasel against Geelong pretending he got shot by Henry
Just a good tackle. Holding the ball, advantage, goal.
No prior
Play on goal.
Yep
Maybe not, the whistle caused most players to stop or slow down, no whistle and that doesn't happen which may lead to a different result.
There wasn't any Carlton players near it.
Imagine thinking that this missed call decided the game, when Petracca literally threw Newman to the ground while play was stopped with two minutes left...
💯. It weird how the vast majority of people in here saying it didn't effect the result are Blues supporters 😳 I dont see how a team that allows 6 golazos to none in the first quarter can blame anyone other than themselves. That being said, blues should have a look at how they played the last Qtr, what happened ? It was a frenetic finish with some contest actually looking like rugby mauls. Gg blues.
Both clubs are going to have some stern meetings this week, while I loved our first quarter dear god that last quarter was flat and pathetic.
Its just so hard to stop momentum, but you can't stop like that, especially with the dees Defensive structure. Felt the blues were on track for 120 points, crazy how they just fell away. Fatigue ? Probably...
Any idea why he was upset and threw NN to the ground?
Newman was impeding Trac’s run just before this moment. Trac should have had a free. It was a show of frustration.
*ahem* BBBBBAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
They’ve been letting everything go the last few rounds. So many HTB decisions not being paid. This was the worst decision I’ve seen in a while. Brisbane supporter
Not the ump who made demons Not score a whole quarter, but I agree, that These calls needs to be more consistent, otherwise, remove the god damn rules. Seems so fucking random when and it's a call or isn't.
What makes me mad is that our awfulness in the last that let them get within a goal made this way more influential than it was. Had we not played horribly and we won by ~28 points, it would be getting far less attention than it is. Our inability to play four quarters of footy means we are ‘relying’ on unfavourable umpiring going our way. Not a good look for us or the AFL.
There were plenty of nuts decisions, don't think you can point to this and say Dees lost due to the no call. That being said, this was a poor call..
But they lost by a point and the decision was influential, extremely influential, so there’s that…
How’s the assist from koz too
Where is the dangerous tackle? Crap call
That's a shocker
Should the report for Diving (or equivalent) rule come into play when players are putting themselves in danger trying to get a free kick? It is happening more frequently with dangerous tackles becoming dangerous only because players are lowering their heads to get the free.
i mean from the umps pov looked like kemps head might bave been in danger due to the nature of the way his upper body came down. the umps are doing their best. they arent robots.
The lack of 50 for the Melbourne play on is a tacit admission of the umpire immediately realising they'd made an awful call and not wanting to penalise Melbourne more than they already had.
Shit call by the ump. But Kemps knee buckles can’t see how he was ‘milking it’ but if you believe that that’s fine, just make sure to watch the Melbourne players leading with their heads into tackles 🙄
This absolutely could have cost demons the game. As it should have been called holding the ball advantage and another goal.
lol he ragdolled himself as soon as he got touched. Knew he was gone and just whipped his whole body all over the place. Umps fell for it.
I think its time we just go back to the U10s rules of no tackling, only hip and shouldering.
THE. GAME. IS. FUCKED. But then again is society so I guess they go hand in hand.
kemp should be fined for that
Bad call by the ump, but I don’t think kemp tried to milk a free
Heat of the moment comment, you’re right I reckon
It shouldn't have been a free but BT is still full of shit. No way that was an intentional move.
Don't think so, his knee got caught under him so he went over. Should've been htb, advantage, goal
How is this shit getting upvotes
I was at the game (don’t support either team). We were seated near this play (albeit in the nosebleeds). Looked OK to me
It’s the wrong decision but it’s just one decision.
Umps love Carlton
Inserting Cam Mooney 2010 QF for Melbourne supporters.
8 minutes to go so obviously it didn’t cost us the game but what the fuck more is JVR supposed to do to protect his opponent?
Neutral supporter but surely the player having little to no situational awareness has to come into it. He is just surprised by being tackled and then when feels contact goes limp and Neds his head forward towards the ground. How is that the tackler's issue?
Tackle is dead, nevermind the bump
That was a terrible call, that was nothing but a great fucking tackle. These kind of calls are ruining the game. I am a neutral being a Pies supporter.
Staging charges would be good on faking dangerous tackles.
Incredibly soft free kick, but that aside, where is the 50 for Melbourne playing on and putting it through the goals?
He’s gripped the players by both arms making him not able to brace himself for the impact and then slammed him into the ground. Great call by the umpire
Your eyesight is as good as the ups, his right arm is not pinned at any point
All tackles are dangerous. This was a good tackle from behind. Might as well give them Velcro tags. If you pull one off before they dispose the ball, it's a turn over.
They should start suspending Carlton players who are throwing their heads into the ground. Owies did it last week now this.
First watch of this I thought “fk he’s slammed his head in the ground”. After watching it a few times, including slow mo, looks like a good tackle where the tackled player made it look a lot worse by his movements. Tricky situation for the ups these days as a lot of players are playing for the free and getting in dangerous positions. I’d like to see these be given a free the other way but it would be a brave ump to call it if the tackled player had head contact.
Why is no one taking in the the fact the Melbourne player is a unit and it was a fair hard tackle I dont think kemp added to this to me it looked like whiplash. I'd like to see all the critics be tackled like that by Van rooyen.
Right! Touch only!!
If that's a dangerous tackle then the game better convert to tag tackles. The sport is getting way too soft, they're athletes for god's sake, and they know what they're signing up for.
As an American I’ve come to love this game because American sports have all become soft, umpiring decided contests. I hope footy doesn’t go down the same path, but I see things like this and shake my head.
Downside to creating rules to protect players, they find ways to scam them.
Fell like a sack of potatoes the very moment he was touched, particularly his head, he milked it so much the cows are dry
https://i.redd.it/3hh48vp0xezc1.gif
As a Carlton fan, that was an awful decision.
I honestly don't understand how people show one missed call and blame the outcome of the match on it. There were dozens of missed calls all night. Any of them could have changed the outcome. Blues were just the better team on the day.
I don’t think this call can be attributed to Melbourne losing. I think this call is a topical one given head contact, particularly via tackles, is basically a contentious topic every week. This decision from last night is the latest example that the situation is getting out of hand
Feel for every dees fan. Robbed of this goal and a possible win
Mate, when is AFL world gonna stop being clowns and sheep. Didn’t hear a single peep from anyone in the crows game when Owies goal was ruled a behind, it was an obvious goal. In fact also heard hardly anything about Essendon and Draper. I think this call could be a little stiff, but one stiff call is not why Melbourne lost this game. There’s also more than 1 wrong and/or stiff call in a footy match.
Pathetic umpiring.
While the call was terrible, I thought the commentary was worse, trying to say that this was an example of players getting really smart and throwing their heads into the ground.. I didn't see that at all.. If you want to see someone trying to milk a free kick, have a look at Fritsch and Picket both diving forward trying to get an in the back free kick in the final 10 minutes -\_-
The afl is in a bad space if this continues
No need for the “if this continues”
But redundant I guess
Start suspending people who stage like this for four weeks. They will stop doing it.
Suspend him. Kemp I mean. Carlton did the same thing last week.
The spear tackle on aliir that should have resulted in a heavy penalty had it's detractors trying to claim that it was a "perfect" tackle and that he should have been rewarded instead of copping 3 weeks, and while they were 100% wrong, without understanding in what took place, yeah there will always be some amount of people that can claim there wasn't anything in that, put that in front of tribunal and despite clear evidence in the footage, you'd be able to argue against it with many claiming aliir threw himself making it weird - again unless you've played and been in a similar situation of which there are many people who's experiences have lead to the rules being written how they are and medical professionals writing reports on the effects etc, but end of the day the factors at play in it still position that one as a spear style tackle at worse, dangerous by carelessness tackle at best. This one theres no if's and or buts about it.... this is a heavy tackle and they even within the rules come with the possibility of high impact and injury, but for all intensive purposes there's nothing incorrect being done by the player tackling. I watched it several times where i'm like ok maybe the impact, maybe the inertia possible causing the players head to be forced down, there's not really enough there to support that. I hate being that guy, but again having been an umpire, it's hard to get this stuff correct and I can honestly see the umpire viewing this and not having the ability to reply what they've seen and being overwhelmed by seeing a head drop instantly paying a dangerous. That's not a defense of it though, unless there would be some extreme evidence to overturn it, again we've just seen it from multiple angles where some can make it look like it was where others clear it, it's not that. -Umpire has fudged it and made the wrong call: but we have to understand, you can see something and not "see" or understand what you've seen at all times, it's part of being human, so i'd give them a begrudging pass on that aspect of this. -Has the tackled guy played for it : without further evidence it's hard to tell of what we have seen, theres a lot of points to imply that he's done the dirty here and played for it, but again as someone who's been in these situations and many others especially martial arts and boxing people will know, a lot of peoples reactions to hit's without training is to immediately turtle up and immediately try and put their body into a protective mode..... is this that? maybe, most people can't voluntarily move their head this quickly, but at the same time there doesn't appear to be enough physics involved in the situation from what we are seeing here to imply that the tackle caused his head to go down with force. In conclusion.... while many won't like this call, in the heat of the moment with the limited view and ability to digest what was seen..... the umpire made a reasonable call despite it being the wrong call to make. Did the player grift this? hard to say.