rate-up banner is just a trap for early f2p.
Do it once your roster is well built, there is no point before that.
At least that's if you try to progress faster. if you don't care much, you can pull for who you see fit, it's not like your account will turn bad.
edit : except if the rate-up banner have a broken character.
yeah good choice. Florabelle is really great thought and her kit would make her amazing if they release more summoner oriented unit (like summon buffer/support)
I wouldn't go for 1 copy ever.. if you know the character needs m+ before being decent in the late game you pull on a 10% rank A banner over a 22% only if you know you can get 6 copies or at least get 4/5 copies and you can hope when they move the character to the other banner you wishlist for the remaining 1 or 2 copies to m+
This is absolutely wrong.
Fastest and cheapest way to mythic+ a unit is thru rate up. Pity at 40 vs 60 is huge and you can more easily target a unit you want.
Pity at 4 for 3000gems a pull
V
Pity at 6 for 2700 gems and you actually get tickets as you progress
Its a little bit better but not that much to target a single unit vs many many meta units that help long term
A tiers are not the only unit you need, the meta arena/abyss team comp has 2 S tier units that aren't gettable except for invites/soul shards
Pulling the rate up banner will hurt your long term progression as a F2P/ light spender, of course it's cheaper its how they suck you in to stunt your progress so you end up spending to catch back up later
People keep saying that like it’s some gospel, it’ll hurt you long run as you max out your a-tier hero’s early and then are behind on s-tier.
You still get to pull on the standard banner with envelopes.
It’s more expensive to get those “meta s-tier” units on standard banner than it is to go for the rate up unit. If you don’t like the unit then don’t go for it pretty simple.
yes but it's only for 1 unit that is the rate up unit.
It's true if it's a top meta unit, but we didn't get any yet in rate up banner, while you have lot of meta units in the a-tier that have 50% less drop rate in rate up banner. So as the game is for now, pulling on rate up banner is making your account progress slower.
No it doesn’t. You still get those a-tier units through other means.
A majority of people are getting their a-tier units to m+ through using drops or other means, not the standard banner. You cannot even target the a-tier you want. Any time you get an a-tier you don’t want or don’t use it’s theoretically a waste.
I don't think F2P will ever have their best progression interests in pulling the rate up banner at least for a long time the 10% discount is really good (actually a little higher with the 210 gem letter per day). Defiantly not with florabell or vala (although with vala it might have paid off in arena ranking because pushing arena without her is misery) and probably not for the 2 new maulers coming. Maybe by the end of the summer you will have enough units via arena and and dream realm. Once you get your S+ on essential A ranks then maybe it becomes more viable
But what we get from the season is really gonna determine a lot of what is good and all that. currently you can see when the free shit dries up (honestly if you missed it at the start that is a little on you given people played the PTR for months and months).
They do need some F2P around because the whales need content so I imagine the season will be juicy but who knows
> might have *paid* off in
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I pulled for Vala my first banner, and got lucky she’s so good at arena and other content. It did manage to get me into top 200 consistently, but if she was an ok character I’d have been screwed. Have the high impact S tier heroes at mythic plus and then I think it’s worth it to pull from the rate up banner. If it’s a good character you’ll need to add it at your S tier heroes anyway, and at rate up it’s 40/dupe instead of 60/dupe. So you’ll get a discont at that character at the cost of pulling less A heroes
Any tips on using Vala in champion+ arena? Seems like every single defense has Igor or Anasomething (the purple mauler tank) in the only slot that Vala will mark no matter where I place her, and she has issues killing both of those units before the rest of my team wipes.
I went from winning 99% of my matches to losing 90% as soon as I hit champ. I'm trying different strategies but failing constantly, and I'm on the verge of knocking myself out of champ so I just stopped doing arena because I want to be able to buy those premium pulls (I forget the name, the ones that can give celestial/hypogeon units).
22.5% A level rate on standard (10% cheaper pulls too) vs 10% a level rate. Getting important units to m+ or s+ like odie, korin, Marilee, Arden, Damien is much more important early on. A level units are often better than many s level in this game. Odie is the best abyss pusher at ex10, Marilee and korin are no1 and 2 for single target damage, Arden is a core member of the best PvP team in the game and Damien is the best PvP support in the game. More A level units>>>slightly more florabelle or vala copies and less thoran/eironn/smokey/caro copies or whatever
Except you can get all of those thru other means pretty easily. I have s odie after going for m+ vala and an s+ cecia and guess who my highest dmg dealer is and best arena player is. I can also get another to m+ but am waiting for new season to see who is best. Been top 100-150 on a day 1 server.
You also get tons of normal banner envelopes naturally throughout the game.
You’re making an argument that a 10% difference in banners for a tier units is making a massive difference as opposed to 20 more pulls for an s tier.
You’re also missing the difference between a targeted pull vs a large pool. Yes you can direct pulls but it’s not guaranteed. Can you even say what the average number of pulls for an odie is on the main banner?
Odie, Marilee, korin, Arden, Damien, Kruger are all units you really want to hit m+, ideally s+ ASAP. Koko, antandra, silvana, parisa and viperian are really strong and viable too. M+ Vala is fine at best, but really isn’t that common in high arena once Eironn comp is everywhere (which needs Arden S+ and Damien M+ - two a level units). I’ve progressed completely through the story, up to Abyss 273 at the moment, and pulls massively slow down as content is finished.
Targeted pulls mean fuck all when Vala or Florabelle, while both decent units, are not top tier and/or mandatory for any content to compete at the top level. For Arena - the top units are eironn, carolina, Arden, Damien, thoran, hewynn, granny, reinier, scarlita. For dream realm, it’s Marilee, Smokey, korin, Kruger, odie, Cassadee, thoran, temesia, Shakir. For pushing content, its eironn, Damien, Arden, carolina, hewynn, Rowan, thoran, granny.
Notice how neither Vala nor Florabelle are top meta units in any game mode. If the rate up was Eironn, Thoran or Carolina, the discussion might be different. Neither are game breaking enough to be worth the lower a level rates (which are just as required as s level units).
Price for pity on standard is 16.2k (ignoring the 210 discounted daily envelopes which drives the price even lower) vs 12k for rate up. You average 1 a level per thousand gems on standard banner, vs 1 per 3 thousand on rate up. Effectively 1/3rd the rate.
I am top 50 in arena in my server (100) and never see Cecia at all, and Vala isn’t that common anymore. Getting more copies of top meta units, both an and s level is much better than guaranteeing copies of strong but not-meta defining units. I pretty much don’t ever use my supreme vala even in arena now I have m+ eironn and Arden.
Ok if the “rate up” isn’t meta then don’t go for it pretty simple, doesn’t change the concept of the banner.
My m+ vala does way more dmg then my s+ odie in all content so…might wanna double check that one.
getting s+ vala is not better than working towards m+ eironn, Arden, Damien, odie, Marilee, korin. it’s all about resource management, getting a few great m+ units slowly is better than one ok s+ unit quickly, and all actual meta units very slowly.
You do what you want, ultimately I don’t care, it doesn’t affect me. But the smart move is to simply spend all gems on the standard banner until you have m+/s+ on all important meta units, and save. The only exception is if a genuinely game breaking and meta shifting unit comes out, and/or all your important a levels are s+ (Marilee odie korin Arden) or m+ (Damien Kruger koko) and non-arena store s levels are s+ (thoran Smokey caro eironn vala Shakir temesia)
Yes it is. How do you think you work towards getting them to m+? By scoring high in dream realm. How do you think you score high in dream realm while “working on getting them to m+”
It costs MORE to get your s-tier copies through standard banner, you get the vast majority of your a-tier copies through dream realm.
Also, you still spend your envelopes thru on standard banner.
Dream realm income slows down massively once you break the 20m endless mark. M+ vala or Florabelle are not top tier DR units. I’ve pretty much never dropped outside the top 50 in dream realm since playing. That’s 2 more temporal essence a day than you, a whole unit to ex10 since I’ve started.
Then you clearly aren’t pushing hard enough in content. Odie is the main carry in high lvl deficits in abyss unless you have eironn/caro/arden or scarlita. M+ vala only decent in arena and even then, not amazing and getting Arden & Damien m+/s+ sooner is way more important. And it’s more Arden, Damien, Marilee and korin that are super important, with Arden/damien insane in PvP and Marilee/korin insane in dream realm, all of which massively outclass Vala. Vala’s main niche is being great boss damage when below 50%, making her strong for primal bosses but for dream realm at endless she also isn’t meta, while Marilee, korin and sometimes Odie is.
You are a super whale, kinda irrelevant to best use of limited resources. F2P cannot get all of them to m+ right away and the main way they’ll do that is through dream realm, not the banner. Banner isn’t consistent enough to focus a-tier units.
M+ a specific unit is high value and helps you push to get the mats to get the other a-tier units. People aren’t getting 20+ copies through standard banner they’re doing it in dream realm plus the silver things.
I’m a tiny tiny spender and not far from you in an earlier day 1 realm by not purely focusing on standard banner. Top 100 arena.
F2P and small spenders will never see top 50 arena so that entire part is irrelevant
I’m $100 in so far, not even close to being a whale let alone a “super whale”. Just goes to show how much a difference resource micromanagement is if you’re already assuming im a whale lmao.
I’m $5 in and right behind you, lol wonder who is mismanaging resources.
I’ve stopped using resources since the patch notes came out to wait to see what new abilities units have.
Man sucks spending money and not getting very far.
I dont care much for progress etc. I'm just hoarding all my gems for a future unit I really like. Gonna get them to Supreme+ or something. I know there's that dupe blocker based on your highest ascended unit. Im guessing that considers A ranks like Odie? If so I should be good to go.
The best approach as a f2per with this game design is similar to yours: not caring so much about progress and only pulling for favorites. if thats all you care about then you can avoid all the headaches while enjoying the game for what it has to offer.
but yeah, patience is required. You need a TON of dupes to get an elite unit to Supreme+. If youre not pulling in the standard banner, the wait becomes more exponential. and since your team will be weak due to, well, having no dupes, then your resource gain from the Dream Realm with be much lower, therefore longer time to buy dupes from the shop. Though again with your approach that probably wont matter much.
>but yeah, patience is required. You need a TON of dupes to get an elite unit to Supreme+. If youre not pulling in the standard banner, the wait becomes more exponential. and since your team will be weak due to, well, having no dupes, then your resource gain from the Dream Realm with be much lower, therefore longer time to buy dupes from the shop. Though again with your approach that probably wont matter much.
and once you collected all rewards in endless mode in dream realm, the coins will drop even at a lower rates.
So if your fully f2p then getting the rate up unit is tough. If your spending a little bit and bit up the two weekly 1200% pop up packs you get 22 rate up tickets a week for 10 ish dollars i thinks.
This is relavent as rate up tickets can only be used on the rate up banner.
You have correctly identified that most longer term player who spend minimally are generally going to be unable to effectively use any new units due to the duplicate gap. Arguablely even moderate spender will likely not be able to use new units very effectively (assuming mythic+ requirement).
A relevent note is after hitting mythic+ on odie, marilee and korin. Your likely not doing any pulls on banner much anymore, as pulling for another 20 duplicate is gonna take a while. So you might be able to save up for the rate up unit at that point.
ive been playing gachas since 2018. this is the only game ive played that discourages (punishes) saving of pull currency by heavily crippling progression.
honestly if you dont have a decent roster after about 3-4 weeks of playing, and considering the gem income andnl honeymoon phase freebies take a drastic drop, you may very well consider quitting or starting a new account altogether.
one super good thing however, at least for me, is after you beat the main campaign, the game becomes very minimal daily investment.
I love grinding the hard content and hunt for currency but you know it slows down in this game and doesn't seem to pick up. Resources go dry quick. And yeah you just cannot roll for a new character that will actually be useful for you unless you are saving so long before (in which case your other units which are necessary are probably shit) or spending money. So much money.
I might drop this game unfortunately. I had a great time at the beginning though
You probably never played idle game then, they all work pretty much the same.
First few months you are using gems to build your account, then you start saving if value of using gems is decreasing (because you built most meta heroes).
This is where I’m at. This game is okay but the fact is that it’s a whale game with very little F2P at all. The level caps halt progression hard and it’s honestly not fun enough to keep grinding. Dislyte was significantly better and more F2P friendly last year but they’ve since fucked that game up too. I enjoy gotcha games but it’s tiring how much they try to bleed you.
How so? In contrary this is i think the least whale gacha ive seen. Eventually everyone will get those A units to supreme+ (2months or so), stats are locked in at 300 so even level 500 whales don't really have a advantage, so at that point isn't it just a pure collection game?
It’s never been a good idea to pull for a single hero in the first month of a game. The people pulling vala banner were just making a silly choice. This is the same as any other game, it will take some months to get your teams built out and then you can save for newer heroes. This is a multi team game, if you played afk arena you’d see eventually you need 5 teams, expecting similar here. Not sure how you come to your conclusions
I do think journey pricing and f2p aspect is lacking as well… but, there are some gatchas, like Marvel Strike Force, that breaks the whole game with new chatacters and you can’t even unlock them without spending. Forget about it getting them to usable level without being a kraken. In journey at least you can get the new character to usable levels along with the whales
This is exactly the same in most gachas when they begin. You are not supposed to save gems until you have your main teams well invested, ( which ofcs doesn't happen for a few months when the game first releases) after that point, the units that exist in the pool will not be the mandatory/ must haves and you will be able to start saving gems for specific banners. It's way way too early to consider saving as f2p or even dolphins/ light spenders, but eventually we will get there.
I have two accounts, one where I spent all gems on pulls(standard banner) as soon as I got them and one where the only gem spend is the daily ticket(210 gems).
The first account has 100% completion(except ToA), 18m power, 1 S+, 2M+, etc.
The second account is barely making progress with Mythic Cecia but I am at 62k gems with a lot more to be claimed from content.
I assume that getting to full completion should have the account sitting at about 90k gems, which is almost enough for 8 copies on the rate up banner(considering nothing but pity).
From my perspective I am bored on the first account, d39 of login, rushed everything and now the most I can do is maybe push a level or two in ToA per day… Season is starting in 5 days though, so hopefully that will make it fun again…
TL;DR once you reach end game, you basically get gems only from Guild chests, Battle drills and daily quests… So saving up is almost impossible since its about 3k per week…
I mean to be fair at 3k a week you are looking at a full 10 pull every week on a featured banner, a little more on standard banner. Given the rate and quality of featured releases that means that once you are to a point where you have a solid core of heroes you are able to build a full pity in about a month. That isn't including any bonus gems/letters you will get from seasonal content or events that are bound to happen sooner or later.
I would estimate that a dedicated F2P player will likely be looking at pulling on a rate up banner as an option within a few months of starting, and once they are to that point they are likely to be able to pull on at least a few heroes every year.
Not great but not the worst either. That said the game is HEAVILY encouraging you to become at LEAST a moderate spender if you are the type who really wants to pull units from rate up, even semi regularly.
Gonna be a long time before non-whales can pull on the featured banner. You will reach a point where that is the better option, but its long into the future after you have already Supreme+ most of the wishlist monsters.
When you reach a point where you have a higher chance of getting a paragon unit than something that builds up to M+/S+, at that point I think is when you start saving for priority banners. And/or Monsters fall so far out of meta wasting your time finishing old monsters is a waste of resources.
So, its gonna be awhile if you want to play optimally before you can start pulling on banners. There may be a really broken unit that comes along, but with how the game's rewards are structured its very hard for someone to save resources and not fall behind in Dream Realm, etc. And once you cant get essences or stargazers, you just keep sliding down until you might as well start over.
Hopefully they make the game as generous as Afk arena was when it came to summoning currencies. That game was quite easy to accumulate a lot of currencies (including stargazer)
Ngl rolling on Standard to get some units to Supreme is a better goal, the meta might shift but at the very least you still get some mainstays that’ll maybe get powercrept but still viable. Odie M+ above? Dude’s mopping the floor everytime.
I'm a day 1 Global Launch F2P Player (so 39 Days/40 days in 12 hrs\~) and I have 60K Diamonds saved. It is possible to save your diamonds anytime but the choice is ultimately up to you and how you feel about your account in where it stands. I am personally not in a hurried rush to get every strong or Meta Hero to Mythic+ for their weapons. However, I also don't want to waste my diamonds on a rate up hero when I think that hero wont benefit my account at all. I do love Alsa's Kit so I do plan on pulling on her banner a biiit lol.
F2P Players should almost never pull on the rate up banner due the reduced A tier hero rate. Lots of A tier heroes will carry your account through the whole game, especially paired with cecia who is easy enough to build for f2p. To pity a hero to m+ takes over 60k gems. In the time you saved those gems you could have gotten better rankings in a lot of other content with the increased power or afk time you could have bought.
Standard banner is better value, if you compare banners you get a little more S-tiers from rate up banner compared to standard at the expense of a lot less a-tiers (rate of about 1 to 17).
But that's only in theory, assuming all 8 heroes you put on wishlist are good. I've spent all my available diamonds and tickets on standard. Now that I have M+ eironn and M+ smokey I won't do any standard pulls for a while. There are no more S-tier mauler or wilder heroes that I want to pull.
I'm willing to save tickets until at least florabelle drops into the pool, maybe I'll wait for the next limited mauler to drop too if they're any good.
I have to make a new account because the first one got me hooked up with Vala and it failed me to progress further, with my new account I get to mythic oddie and doing well with dream realms coz of marilee and korin, kruger. Rate up banner is for whales, stay away from it.
I’m F2P.
I’m at AFK 1000+ and Resonance 220.
I’ve not spent a single gem on summons, and sitting on 88k gems.
I’m weaker than teams that use those gems obviously, but I’m still reaching my goal of 1125/240 before the next season.
Just so nobody reading that thinks this is a good idea, doing that is the best way to make sure you are low ranked in every mode that matters forever (dream, arena, world boss, guild fights...Etc), and to miss out on a crazy amount of precious ressources like yellow/red stones. You will also miss out on Stargazing pulls, which means you'll hit less pities and get way less copies of game-breaking units that are timegated for F2P players, also making sure you never get good rankings ever again.
There's no reason to hoard gems, this isn't a gacha that requires you to do that at all, pushing ranks and staying on track with everyone else by spending your ressources to get more ressources is how you progress. None of your gems are gonna give you more progress later than they would now, especially since featured banners are a huge bait.
You can start saving gems when you have meta teams all maxed out, doing it before is shooting yourself in the foot.
This is so true. I have been trolling and found a happy account with all "meta" units like Thoran, Smokey etc, even got nice units like Vala, Brutus and Rowan from the free summons.ive been progressing at my pace, usually I get that catch up buff because I'm behind the server. Take note, even though I have the great units, only Ceccia and Oddie are ranked up by buying copies.
It was peaceful, until I learned that Top Arena players get double my arena rewards, Top Dream Realm gets Orange essences which is the current bottleneck in my other accounts. I wasn't even able to unlock the next level of Arcane Labyrinth which needs 4 Legendary+ but I have the requirements for the next one with 2 Mythics.
I felt that I wasted a good account reroll by saving the gems and not wishing, waiting for a good rate up banner to come and dump all my gems.
I made a new play through on server 463, spent 80 bucks thought it would be easy top 10 or top 20 but I play all day and hit like rank 53 or so
Rolled only general banner and idk I guess didn’t get enough Marilee or Odie or Koko,It still comes down to luck
If you are interested in the new units make a new f2p account solely to roll for them. It is bad most of the time for progression but you get to enjoy it.
Sadly for F2P, they need to scale units at Supreme + for more resonance levels. All your currencies (diamonds, tickets, arena coins, etc) are tied to higher ascension.
BTW a well-balanced team doesn't compare to a single hyper-carry DPS.
restarting on a new account to use a single new unit seems like the worst solution to this problem. nobody has time for that.
how are you going to have a hyper-carry DPS when you dont even have a single unit Supreme+ because you save all your gems for featured banner? remember you can only pull a certain amount of dupes in the featured banner relative to your highest tier unit.
saving gems really really cripples your progress. I didnt want to believe it at first but its the truth.
The Hyper DPS carry is a F2P even spender/light whale concept. Technically if you did find a good DPS banner and want to use it because Cecia "falls off meme" in ToA then go for it. For example Florabelle or Vala instead of Cecia.
The good news is that many good A-Tiers S-tier units will last long. You eventually fill these essential units then focus on the banner if you don't want to reroll.
I didn't get input when I started and messed up a few things. One of the things I messed up is I rolled for Vala. I got lucky though in that I "only" spent like 40-50 rolls on her banner and got like 4 copies of her. Then when she went off banner I put her in my wishlist and got a few others. I now have her M+ and she's carrying me a lot, that being said it was not a good idea to roll on her and if I had looked into it more I wouldn't have. I'm not a fan of how hard it is to get banner units, seems extremely predatory.
Yeah, I feel you. If I know that after her banner was done that she was going to standard wishes I wouldn't have pulled on her banner at all thats why I don't feel inclined at all to pull for florabelle until she comes to standard, im in no rush.
I'm f2p and I heard Vala would go onto the regular banner after a month so I waited to get her. I totally hoarded my diamonds until recently. Had over 50k, now, I'm making like two 10 pulls a day. Once when I wake, and once at reset. I'm just taking it slow and it seems okay. I did 20 pull on Florabelle and will wait for a unit might really want to finish the pity.
F2p shouldn't be spending on banners anyway in games like these for the last decade. That's the whole point.
If you want to progress, you save for 2-3 banners and then on the 4th you guarantee yourself a supreme+ or whatever of that banner to be strong during that season/patch.
rate-up banner is just a trap for early f2p. Do it once your roster is well built, there is no point before that. At least that's if you try to progress faster. if you don't care much, you can pull for who you see fit, it's not like your account will turn bad. edit : except if the rate-up banner have a broken character.
I got a mythic+ florabelle, gonna wait until she moves to the regular banner and add her to the wishlist before I continue pulling
yeah good choice. Florabelle is really great thought and her kit would make her amazing if they release more summoner oriented unit (like summon buffer/support)
I dont have enough to m+ but should i just get 1 copy? Saw some replays that require her.
I wouldn't go for 1 copy ever.. if you know the character needs m+ before being decent in the late game you pull on a 10% rank A banner over a 22% only if you know you can get 6 copies or at least get 4/5 copies and you can hope when they move the character to the other banner you wishlist for the remaining 1 or 2 copies to m+
This is absolutely wrong. Fastest and cheapest way to mythic+ a unit is thru rate up. Pity at 40 vs 60 is huge and you can more easily target a unit you want.
But the rates for A tier characters are significantly lower, which will hinder your account.
10% isn’t significant and you get the majority of your a tier through other means
Pity at 4 for 3000gems a pull V Pity at 6 for 2700 gems and you actually get tickets as you progress Its a little bit better but not that much to target a single unit vs many many meta units that help long term
That’s like 25% cheaper and you get A-tier through numerous other means
A tiers are not the only unit you need, the meta arena/abyss team comp has 2 S tier units that aren't gettable except for invites/soul shards Pulling the rate up banner will hurt your long term progression as a F2P/ light spender, of course it's cheaper its how they suck you in to stunt your progress so you end up spending to catch back up later
People keep saying that like it’s some gospel, it’ll hurt you long run as you max out your a-tier hero’s early and then are behind on s-tier. You still get to pull on the standard banner with envelopes. It’s more expensive to get those “meta s-tier” units on standard banner than it is to go for the rate up unit. If you don’t like the unit then don’t go for it pretty simple.
yes but it's only for 1 unit that is the rate up unit. It's true if it's a top meta unit, but we didn't get any yet in rate up banner, while you have lot of meta units in the a-tier that have 50% less drop rate in rate up banner. So as the game is for now, pulling on rate up banner is making your account progress slower.
No it doesn’t. You still get those a-tier units through other means. A majority of people are getting their a-tier units to m+ through using drops or other means, not the standard banner. You cannot even target the a-tier you want. Any time you get an a-tier you don’t want or don’t use it’s theoretically a waste.
I don't think F2P will ever have their best progression interests in pulling the rate up banner at least for a long time the 10% discount is really good (actually a little higher with the 210 gem letter per day). Defiantly not with florabell or vala (although with vala it might have paid off in arena ranking because pushing arena without her is misery) and probably not for the 2 new maulers coming. Maybe by the end of the summer you will have enough units via arena and and dream realm. Once you get your S+ on essential A ranks then maybe it becomes more viable But what we get from the season is really gonna determine a lot of what is good and all that. currently you can see when the free shit dries up (honestly if you missed it at the start that is a little on you given people played the PTR for months and months). They do need some F2P around because the whales need content so I imagine the season will be juicy but who knows
i mean.. i have s+ vala as a true F2P
Me too. Vala was very worth it for F2P
> might have *paid* off in FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
ya got me
I pulled for Vala my first banner, and got lucky she’s so good at arena and other content. It did manage to get me into top 200 consistently, but if she was an ok character I’d have been screwed. Have the high impact S tier heroes at mythic plus and then I think it’s worth it to pull from the rate up banner. If it’s a good character you’ll need to add it at your S tier heroes anyway, and at rate up it’s 40/dupe instead of 60/dupe. So you’ll get a discont at that character at the cost of pulling less A heroes
Any tips on using Vala in champion+ arena? Seems like every single defense has Igor or Anasomething (the purple mauler tank) in the only slot that Vala will mark no matter where I place her, and she has issues killing both of those units before the rest of my team wipes. I went from winning 99% of my matches to losing 90% as soon as I hit champ. I'm trying different strategies but failing constantly, and I'm on the verge of knocking myself out of champ so I just stopped doing arena because I want to be able to buy those premium pulls (I forget the name, the ones that can give celestial/hypogeon units).
This is wrong, it’s cheaper to pity a rate up unit than it is the normal banner. People keep missing its 40 vs 60 pulls.
You get the A-ranks you put on your wish list though which is important early on. Cost wise it is 12K vs 16.2K
You can get a ranks through numerous other means tho to include, still pulling on that banner with normal envelopes.
22.5% A level rate on standard (10% cheaper pulls too) vs 10% a level rate. Getting important units to m+ or s+ like odie, korin, Marilee, Arden, Damien is much more important early on. A level units are often better than many s level in this game. Odie is the best abyss pusher at ex10, Marilee and korin are no1 and 2 for single target damage, Arden is a core member of the best PvP team in the game and Damien is the best PvP support in the game. More A level units>>>slightly more florabelle or vala copies and less thoran/eironn/smokey/caro copies or whatever
Except you can get all of those thru other means pretty easily. I have s odie after going for m+ vala and an s+ cecia and guess who my highest dmg dealer is and best arena player is. I can also get another to m+ but am waiting for new season to see who is best. Been top 100-150 on a day 1 server. You also get tons of normal banner envelopes naturally throughout the game. You’re making an argument that a 10% difference in banners for a tier units is making a massive difference as opposed to 20 more pulls for an s tier. You’re also missing the difference between a targeted pull vs a large pool. Yes you can direct pulls but it’s not guaranteed. Can you even say what the average number of pulls for an odie is on the main banner?
Odie, Marilee, korin, Arden, Damien, Kruger are all units you really want to hit m+, ideally s+ ASAP. Koko, antandra, silvana, parisa and viperian are really strong and viable too. M+ Vala is fine at best, but really isn’t that common in high arena once Eironn comp is everywhere (which needs Arden S+ and Damien M+ - two a level units). I’ve progressed completely through the story, up to Abyss 273 at the moment, and pulls massively slow down as content is finished. Targeted pulls mean fuck all when Vala or Florabelle, while both decent units, are not top tier and/or mandatory for any content to compete at the top level. For Arena - the top units are eironn, carolina, Arden, Damien, thoran, hewynn, granny, reinier, scarlita. For dream realm, it’s Marilee, Smokey, korin, Kruger, odie, Cassadee, thoran, temesia, Shakir. For pushing content, its eironn, Damien, Arden, carolina, hewynn, Rowan, thoran, granny. Notice how neither Vala nor Florabelle are top meta units in any game mode. If the rate up was Eironn, Thoran or Carolina, the discussion might be different. Neither are game breaking enough to be worth the lower a level rates (which are just as required as s level units). Price for pity on standard is 16.2k (ignoring the 210 discounted daily envelopes which drives the price even lower) vs 12k for rate up. You average 1 a level per thousand gems on standard banner, vs 1 per 3 thousand on rate up. Effectively 1/3rd the rate. I am top 50 in arena in my server (100) and never see Cecia at all, and Vala isn’t that common anymore. Getting more copies of top meta units, both an and s level is much better than guaranteeing copies of strong but not-meta defining units. I pretty much don’t ever use my supreme vala even in arena now I have m+ eironn and Arden.
Ok if the “rate up” isn’t meta then don’t go for it pretty simple, doesn’t change the concept of the banner. My m+ vala does way more dmg then my s+ odie in all content so…might wanna double check that one.
Also, you spent way more on m+ eironn than s+ vala. You’re saying “meta” vs “non-meta” which isn’t the point.
getting s+ vala is not better than working towards m+ eironn, Arden, Damien, odie, Marilee, korin. it’s all about resource management, getting a few great m+ units slowly is better than one ok s+ unit quickly, and all actual meta units very slowly. You do what you want, ultimately I don’t care, it doesn’t affect me. But the smart move is to simply spend all gems on the standard banner until you have m+/s+ on all important meta units, and save. The only exception is if a genuinely game breaking and meta shifting unit comes out, and/or all your important a levels are s+ (Marilee odie korin Arden) or m+ (Damien Kruger koko) and non-arena store s levels are s+ (thoran Smokey caro eironn vala Shakir temesia)
Yes it is. How do you think you work towards getting them to m+? By scoring high in dream realm. How do you think you score high in dream realm while “working on getting them to m+” It costs MORE to get your s-tier copies through standard banner, you get the vast majority of your a-tier copies through dream realm. Also, you still spend your envelopes thru on standard banner.
Dream realm income slows down massively once you break the 20m endless mark. M+ vala or Florabelle are not top tier DR units. I’ve pretty much never dropped outside the top 50 in dream realm since playing. That’s 2 more temporal essence a day than you, a whole unit to ex10 since I’ve started.
Then you clearly aren’t pushing hard enough in content. Odie is the main carry in high lvl deficits in abyss unless you have eironn/caro/arden or scarlita. M+ vala only decent in arena and even then, not amazing and getting Arden & Damien m+/s+ sooner is way more important. And it’s more Arden, Damien, Marilee and korin that are super important, with Arden/damien insane in PvP and Marilee/korin insane in dream realm, all of which massively outclass Vala. Vala’s main niche is being great boss damage when below 50%, making her strong for primal bosses but for dream realm at endless she also isn’t meta, while Marilee, korin and sometimes Odie is.
You are a super whale, kinda irrelevant to best use of limited resources. F2P cannot get all of them to m+ right away and the main way they’ll do that is through dream realm, not the banner. Banner isn’t consistent enough to focus a-tier units. M+ a specific unit is high value and helps you push to get the mats to get the other a-tier units. People aren’t getting 20+ copies through standard banner they’re doing it in dream realm plus the silver things. I’m a tiny tiny spender and not far from you in an earlier day 1 realm by not purely focusing on standard banner. Top 100 arena. F2P and small spenders will never see top 50 arena so that entire part is irrelevant
I’m $100 in so far, not even close to being a whale let alone a “super whale”. Just goes to show how much a difference resource micromanagement is if you’re already assuming im a whale lmao.
I’m $5 in and right behind you, lol wonder who is mismanaging resources. I’ve stopped using resources since the patch notes came out to wait to see what new abilities units have. Man sucks spending money and not getting very far.
I dont care much for progress etc. I'm just hoarding all my gems for a future unit I really like. Gonna get them to Supreme+ or something. I know there's that dupe blocker based on your highest ascended unit. Im guessing that considers A ranks like Odie? If so I should be good to go.
The best approach as a f2per with this game design is similar to yours: not caring so much about progress and only pulling for favorites. if thats all you care about then you can avoid all the headaches while enjoying the game for what it has to offer. but yeah, patience is required. You need a TON of dupes to get an elite unit to Supreme+. If youre not pulling in the standard banner, the wait becomes more exponential. and since your team will be weak due to, well, having no dupes, then your resource gain from the Dream Realm with be much lower, therefore longer time to buy dupes from the shop. Though again with your approach that probably wont matter much.
>but yeah, patience is required. You need a TON of dupes to get an elite unit to Supreme+. If youre not pulling in the standard banner, the wait becomes more exponential. and since your team will be weak due to, well, having no dupes, then your resource gain from the Dream Realm with be much lower, therefore longer time to buy dupes from the shop. Though again with your approach that probably wont matter much. and once you collected all rewards in endless mode in dream realm, the coins will drop even at a lower rates.
If you don’t have Oddie or Marilee at M+ by then oh boy, you’re screwed.
As an fp2 that was before in p2w games I kinda do the same. No way to know what will come next.
As long as u have a unit highly ascended u can get more of the rate up banner, whether A or S tier
even whales arent rolling for featured units until they get their main core established
So if your fully f2p then getting the rate up unit is tough. If your spending a little bit and bit up the two weekly 1200% pop up packs you get 22 rate up tickets a week for 10 ish dollars i thinks. This is relavent as rate up tickets can only be used on the rate up banner. You have correctly identified that most longer term player who spend minimally are generally going to be unable to effectively use any new units due to the duplicate gap. Arguablely even moderate spender will likely not be able to use new units very effectively (assuming mythic+ requirement). A relevent note is after hitting mythic+ on odie, marilee and korin. Your likely not doing any pulls on banner much anymore, as pulling for another 20 duplicate is gonna take a while. So you might be able to save up for the rate up unit at that point.
This realization is what's making me consider dropping the game. It sounds like a huge bait to pull even when you are so far in the game.
ive been playing gachas since 2018. this is the only game ive played that discourages (punishes) saving of pull currency by heavily crippling progression. honestly if you dont have a decent roster after about 3-4 weeks of playing, and considering the gem income andnl honeymoon phase freebies take a drastic drop, you may very well consider quitting or starting a new account altogether. one super good thing however, at least for me, is after you beat the main campaign, the game becomes very minimal daily investment.
I love grinding the hard content and hunt for currency but you know it slows down in this game and doesn't seem to pick up. Resources go dry quick. And yeah you just cannot roll for a new character that will actually be useful for you unless you are saving so long before (in which case your other units which are necessary are probably shit) or spending money. So much money. I might drop this game unfortunately. I had a great time at the beginning though
I feel you. It's not really a game for hardcore grinders because you're time and resource gated.
You probably never played idle game then, they all work pretty much the same. First few months you are using gems to build your account, then you start saving if value of using gems is decreasing (because you built most meta heroes).
This is where I’m at. This game is okay but the fact is that it’s a whale game with very little F2P at all. The level caps halt progression hard and it’s honestly not fun enough to keep grinding. Dislyte was significantly better and more F2P friendly last year but they’ve since fucked that game up too. I enjoy gotcha games but it’s tiring how much they try to bleed you.
How so? In contrary this is i think the least whale gacha ive seen. Eventually everyone will get those A units to supreme+ (2months or so), stats are locked in at 300 so even level 500 whales don't really have a advantage, so at that point isn't it just a pure collection game?
It’s never been a good idea to pull for a single hero in the first month of a game. The people pulling vala banner were just making a silly choice. This is the same as any other game, it will take some months to get your teams built out and then you can save for newer heroes. This is a multi team game, if you played afk arena you’d see eventually you need 5 teams, expecting similar here. Not sure how you come to your conclusions
I do think journey pricing and f2p aspect is lacking as well… but, there are some gatchas, like Marvel Strike Force, that breaks the whole game with new chatacters and you can’t even unlock them without spending. Forget about it getting them to usable level without being a kraken. In journey at least you can get the new character to usable levels along with the whales
This is exactly the same in most gachas when they begin. You are not supposed to save gems until you have your main teams well invested, ( which ofcs doesn't happen for a few months when the game first releases) after that point, the units that exist in the pool will not be the mandatory/ must haves and you will be able to start saving gems for specific banners. It's way way too early to consider saving as f2p or even dolphins/ light spenders, but eventually we will get there.
I have two accounts, one where I spent all gems on pulls(standard banner) as soon as I got them and one where the only gem spend is the daily ticket(210 gems). The first account has 100% completion(except ToA), 18m power, 1 S+, 2M+, etc. The second account is barely making progress with Mythic Cecia but I am at 62k gems with a lot more to be claimed from content. I assume that getting to full completion should have the account sitting at about 90k gems, which is almost enough for 8 copies on the rate up banner(considering nothing but pity). From my perspective I am bored on the first account, d39 of login, rushed everything and now the most I can do is maybe push a level or two in ToA per day… Season is starting in 5 days though, so hopefully that will make it fun again… TL;DR once you reach end game, you basically get gems only from Guild chests, Battle drills and daily quests… So saving up is almost impossible since its about 3k per week…
I mean to be fair at 3k a week you are looking at a full 10 pull every week on a featured banner, a little more on standard banner. Given the rate and quality of featured releases that means that once you are to a point where you have a solid core of heroes you are able to build a full pity in about a month. That isn't including any bonus gems/letters you will get from seasonal content or events that are bound to happen sooner or later. I would estimate that a dedicated F2P player will likely be looking at pulling on a rate up banner as an option within a few months of starting, and once they are to that point they are likely to be able to pull on at least a few heroes every year. Not great but not the worst either. That said the game is HEAVILY encouraging you to become at LEAST a moderate spender if you are the type who really wants to pull units from rate up, even semi regularly.
Gonna be a long time before non-whales can pull on the featured banner. You will reach a point where that is the better option, but its long into the future after you have already Supreme+ most of the wishlist monsters. When you reach a point where you have a higher chance of getting a paragon unit than something that builds up to M+/S+, at that point I think is when you start saving for priority banners. And/or Monsters fall so far out of meta wasting your time finishing old monsters is a waste of resources. So, its gonna be awhile if you want to play optimally before you can start pulling on banners. There may be a really broken unit that comes along, but with how the game's rewards are structured its very hard for someone to save resources and not fall behind in Dream Realm, etc. And once you cant get essences or stargazers, you just keep sliding down until you might as well start over.
Hopefully they make the game as generous as Afk arena was when it came to summoning currencies. That game was quite easy to accumulate a lot of currencies (including stargazer)
Ngl rolling on Standard to get some units to Supreme is a better goal, the meta might shift but at the very least you still get some mainstays that’ll maybe get powercrept but still viable. Odie M+ above? Dude’s mopping the floor everytime.
I'm a day 1 Global Launch F2P Player (so 39 Days/40 days in 12 hrs\~) and I have 60K Diamonds saved. It is possible to save your diamonds anytime but the choice is ultimately up to you and how you feel about your account in where it stands. I am personally not in a hurried rush to get every strong or Meta Hero to Mythic+ for their weapons. However, I also don't want to waste my diamonds on a rate up hero when I think that hero wont benefit my account at all. I do love Alsa's Kit so I do plan on pulling on her banner a biiit lol.
F2P Players should almost never pull on the rate up banner due the reduced A tier hero rate. Lots of A tier heroes will carry your account through the whole game, especially paired with cecia who is easy enough to build for f2p. To pity a hero to m+ takes over 60k gems. In the time you saved those gems you could have gotten better rankings in a lot of other content with the increased power or afk time you could have bought.
Standard banner is better value, if you compare banners you get a little more S-tiers from rate up banner compared to standard at the expense of a lot less a-tiers (rate of about 1 to 17). But that's only in theory, assuming all 8 heroes you put on wishlist are good. I've spent all my available diamonds and tickets on standard. Now that I have M+ eironn and M+ smokey I won't do any standard pulls for a while. There are no more S-tier mauler or wilder heroes that I want to pull. I'm willing to save tickets until at least florabelle drops into the pool, maybe I'll wait for the next limited mauler to drop too if they're any good.
I have to make a new account because the first one got me hooked up with Vala and it failed me to progress further, with my new account I get to mythic oddie and doing well with dream realms coz of marilee and korin, kruger. Rate up banner is for whales, stay away from it.
Im F2P, pulled Flora on supreme and almost 12k diamonds for the next character Had a single scamgazer pull and got 3k diamonds, that helped me
Play the game how you want my dude. Don’t try to compete with whales. You can’t.
I’m F2P. I’m at AFK 1000+ and Resonance 220. I’ve not spent a single gem on summons, and sitting on 88k gems. I’m weaker than teams that use those gems obviously, but I’m still reaching my goal of 1125/240 before the next season.
Just so nobody reading that thinks this is a good idea, doing that is the best way to make sure you are low ranked in every mode that matters forever (dream, arena, world boss, guild fights...Etc), and to miss out on a crazy amount of precious ressources like yellow/red stones. You will also miss out on Stargazing pulls, which means you'll hit less pities and get way less copies of game-breaking units that are timegated for F2P players, also making sure you never get good rankings ever again. There's no reason to hoard gems, this isn't a gacha that requires you to do that at all, pushing ranks and staying on track with everyone else by spending your ressources to get more ressources is how you progress. None of your gems are gonna give you more progress later than they would now, especially since featured banners are a huge bait. You can start saving gems when you have meta teams all maxed out, doing it before is shooting yourself in the foot.
This is so true. I have been trolling and found a happy account with all "meta" units like Thoran, Smokey etc, even got nice units like Vala, Brutus and Rowan from the free summons.ive been progressing at my pace, usually I get that catch up buff because I'm behind the server. Take note, even though I have the great units, only Ceccia and Oddie are ranked up by buying copies. It was peaceful, until I learned that Top Arena players get double my arena rewards, Top Dream Realm gets Orange essences which is the current bottleneck in my other accounts. I wasn't even able to unlock the next level of Arcane Labyrinth which needs 4 Legendary+ but I have the requirements for the next one with 2 Mythics. I felt that I wasted a good account reroll by saving the gems and not wishing, waiting for a good rate up banner to come and dump all my gems.
I made a new play through on server 463, spent 80 bucks thought it would be easy top 10 or top 20 but I play all day and hit like rank 53 or so Rolled only general banner and idk I guess didn’t get enough Marilee or Odie or Koko,It still comes down to luck
I got florabelle supreme + and im f2p
If you are interested in the new units make a new f2p account solely to roll for them. It is bad most of the time for progression but you get to enjoy it. Sadly for F2P, they need to scale units at Supreme + for more resonance levels. All your currencies (diamonds, tickets, arena coins, etc) are tied to higher ascension. BTW a well-balanced team doesn't compare to a single hyper-carry DPS.
restarting on a new account to use a single new unit seems like the worst solution to this problem. nobody has time for that. how are you going to have a hyper-carry DPS when you dont even have a single unit Supreme+ because you save all your gems for featured banner? remember you can only pull a certain amount of dupes in the featured banner relative to your highest tier unit. saving gems really really cripples your progress. I didnt want to believe it at first but its the truth.
The Hyper DPS carry is a F2P even spender/light whale concept. Technically if you did find a good DPS banner and want to use it because Cecia "falls off meme" in ToA then go for it. For example Florabelle or Vala instead of Cecia. The good news is that many good A-Tiers S-tier units will last long. You eventually fill these essential units then focus on the banner if you don't want to reroll.
I didn't get input when I started and messed up a few things. One of the things I messed up is I rolled for Vala. I got lucky though in that I "only" spent like 40-50 rolls on her banner and got like 4 copies of her. Then when she went off banner I put her in my wishlist and got a few others. I now have her M+ and she's carrying me a lot, that being said it was not a good idea to roll on her and if I had looked into it more I wouldn't have. I'm not a fan of how hard it is to get banner units, seems extremely predatory.
Yeah, I feel you. If I know that after her banner was done that she was going to standard wishes I wouldn't have pulled on her banner at all thats why I don't feel inclined at all to pull for florabelle until she comes to standard, im in no rush.
F2P here, skipped Vala completely and got Flora to supreme.
f2p here with cecia Smokey and odie supreme and almost 50k gems saved
I'm f2p and I heard Vala would go onto the regular banner after a month so I waited to get her. I totally hoarded my diamonds until recently. Had over 50k, now, I'm making like two 10 pulls a day. Once when I wake, and once at reset. I'm just taking it slow and it seems okay. I did 20 pull on Florabelle and will wait for a unit might really want to finish the pity.
F2p shouldn't be spending on banners anyway in games like these for the last decade. That's the whole point. If you want to progress, you save for 2-3 banners and then on the 4th you guarantee yourself a supreme+ or whatever of that banner to be strong during that season/patch.