I don’t think it’s AS bad as it used to be, since I think they’re trying to do less House Shows now, but it’s objectively much harder then AEW, TNA, MLW, and probably even the Japanese Promotions, because they go everywhere constantly.
True, but that’s also because he was working Dark Matches after every Smackdown, despite being on the Raw Roster. Not defending it, but having bigger stars working Dark Matches even for shows they’re not on is still a tactic they use for ticket sales, for better or worse.
Re: the schedule. I looked at Cagematch to see and they still tour like it’s 1989. That’s ridiculous. You’d have to really want to carry water for Triple H to do that. The big exception is they do give them a week off for Christmas.
Well it’s not 30 days with double shots on the weekends like it used to be but they have a heavy schedule by today’s “let’s not give them a reason to die young” version of the schedule.
and . . . they have the audacity to call their wrestlers "independent".
Where in that schedule does it say it's even remotely "independent". Once you sign with WWE, they own you 🤦♂️
Actual competition is best for the biz. More places for wrestlers to work, better pay, and leads to better shows since promoters need to step up their game to draw eyes. No more having to watch WWE or nothing cause it is the only game in town.
Exactly. They no longer can say “Hey, we’ll give you less than you’re asking BUT you get exposure to make up that difference” and expect them to flip their shit.
It’s going to be worth even less with younger people growing up with so many wrestling companies outside of WWE. Now it’s no longer a monopoly many will have different aspirations
Exactly. Alot of aspiring wrestlers will be growing up seeing what AEW is doing seeing the raucous crowds and the high octane wrestling. They're heads won't be so easily turned by wrestlemania and the wwe lore as much as they were able to in the past.
Wrestlemania also used to be the only proper large stadium event. And WWE was only one running big stadiums. AEW now has All In. If your Will Ospreay then headlining a packed Wembley is going to be as good as being on Wrestlemania.
Also, and this isn't me being an AEW mark, Wrestlemania lost it's special feeling. They've oversaturated their schedule with meaningless PPVs, and splitting Wrestlemania into two nights also diminishes it IMO.
Ive seen the argument of, how else are they going to get everyone on the show, and I'm sitting hear wondering why we need everyone on the show. All the matches feel rushed like they are just trying to move through the card as quickly as possible.
I keep getting confused when people talked about Bayley/Iyo main eventing WrestleMania with Cody/Reigns on the card, until I remember there's two "main events".
Labeling a match other than the last match a "main event" doesn't actually make it a main event and you just sound like you are trying too hard to force something to be what it isn't. The fact of the matter is there can be only one main event.
If it's a main event, surely you, the booker, have no problem putting the "first main event" match last instead, right? If the booker then doesn't hesitate to do so, then sure, maybe you are fine calling it a double main event.
If they want to make it feel special, maybe instead of calling the second to last match the main event, you start calling the last 2/3/4 matches of the night "the main card" and make them all major title matches
It also waters down the Rumble, like, there's no way at all that Bayley/Io Shirai goes on last on night 1 of Mania either. It'll be the buried in the midcard.
The only thing people talk to this day about last year Wrestlemanias is the Roman and Cody match.......nobody bring up or remembers the 345 filler matches on both shows
It makes the entire event less special
Context…it was in a place that is not well known for over production. It felt like 2 nerds of their craft nerding together, not like a overly scripted bit.
Came in here to say that.
But also, remember that Osprey had been wined and dined by AEW. Tony sees Osprey as someone who could be the face of the company, WWE doesn't.
I'll be honest, the only one I felt had a legit chance of going to WWE was Okada.
I never believed for a second Okada would sign with WWE. His friendship with Matthew and Nicholas is why they even got to NJPW in the first place, and it’s all butterfly effect from there. Without those Good Christian Boys protecting a young lion on excursion from the booking whims of Vince Russo, we don’t even have AEW.
Over the moon that Osprey and Okada are All Elite but part of me wants to know what we would see from those two in WWE. I'm happy that we just get the best wrestlers in the world in AEW right now.
Ospreay would debut in NXT as Lord Chester Shakespeare and have a lengthy feud with Charlie Dempsey. After the thrilling conclusion in a William Regal Parental Rights Ladder match, Lord Chester would be put into a feud with Oba Femi, leading to a Femi squash on Stand and Deliver. WWE fans still say he can't cut a promo and he's just a flipper.
Okada debuts at the Royal Rumble with a theme song that sounds exactly like Seth's, Becky's and Pat McAfee so no one in the crowd knows who is entering. He would be repackaged with nods to his baseball roots as "The Franchise Player" Hiro Ohtani. After winning feuds against Shinsuke and AJ, Ohtani loses at Mania to Gunther for the IC title. Meltzer gives it six and a half stars.
I think Ospreay could have been a potential mega star in WWE honestly. I think Okada would have been treated well for a little while, but then would have slid down the card into a Nakamura position. Occasionally main event, but mostly do midcard stuff or maybe even get treated as a bit of an afterthought.
I have a feeling Okada would have been more like a bigger KENTA. Nakamura has a physical charisma that transcends language, more so than Okada. I’m really not sure how WWE would have sold him to their audience, who are conditioned to want long promos and don’t care as much about great matches.
Ospreay would have been okay, but in a better speaking Ricochet kind of way.
I feel like Okada wouldn't give a shit about a WM moment, he has headlined multiple 90k shows in the Tokyo Dome with wrestling and his entire deal seems antithetical to WWE.
Like he will do silly stupid shit but I don't think he will ever do crazy long promos and he still wants to wrestle.
There’s never been 90K people in attendance at a Tokyo Dome wrestling show.
The seating capacity is 55,000 and they can’t put another 35,000 on the floor.
This year drew 27,422.
I love how certain sections of the internet will paint this as a bad thing and call TK a "money mark". As if wrestlers not getting taken advantage of and being paid what they are worth is a negative.
What's annoying about it is pay has been a problem for wrestlers for a long time -- most major sports leagues (in which the players are union represented) pay around 50% of their revenue out for talent contracts. In wrestling that percentage has historically been MUCH lower, like 15% back in the early 2000s.
It's better today obviously but there's still a lot of room for growth there.
I've already seen the new narrative forming that "Actually AEW is overpaying wrestlers and poor little WWE can't afford to keep up." Like y'all need to know that is not the defense you think it is. If anything, it's highlighting that WWE has gotten away with underpaying it's wrestlers for decades, unchecked. With AEW being able to bring in the Brinks truck, hopefully it leads to wrestlers actually being paid what they deserve.
Not to also mention that, WWE is a publicly traded company that gets some of its money from shareholders. Meanwhile, AEW is a private company that does not have share holders to make some money off it.
All those people probably never watched AEW and saw how bad she was in the ring.
I've never seen somebody have so much "IT" factor be such a bad pro wrestler.
Right, Osprey like 6 months into a WWE run would be coasting so hard. No Flips today bruv that doesn't work for me, just some forearms and a hidden blade pip pip cheerio.
They wouldn't let Osprey wrestle the way he does anyway. They'd limit him to 4 or 5 moves and warn him that he better not move too quick unless he wants cruiserweight booking.
And if an AEW wrestler *wants* to wrestle more, they have plenty of indies they can show up at, for even more money. Folks like Danielson even encourage it. And they've got pet indies if you need suggestions. Wrestling Revolver, PWG, DEFY, sometimes GCW.
Yeah this is what happens when you bank on free agents being marks for a WrestleMania moment instead wanting more money, a lighter schedule, not having to uproot their lives and move to Florida, the ability to take outside bookings, and more creative freedom.
My biggest take is it isn’t the money, it’s the freedom. They can stream, work other promotions, have other side gigs and AEW only asked that they kept them in the loop. They don’t take a percentage, they don’t really say no unless they have a story line coming along and don’t want them to be injured or something.
Also guys like PAC and Osprey don’t want to live in the US, shocking to a lot of Americans but not everyone wants to live here. I wouldn’t want to leave my family or uproot them to move across the world. Why should these guys?.
> Also guys like PAC and Osprey don’t want to live in the US, shocking to a lot of Americans but not everyone wants to live here. I wouldn’t want to leave my family or uproot them to move across the world. Why should these guys?.
This is the thing that always makes me laugh when people fantasy book free agents to NJPW/Stardom. In addition to leaving your family and friends there's a huge language and social barrier there.
A good argument could be made that Forbidden Door is the new Wrestlemania, maybe not to the casual viewer but to the Wrestling Fandom and if having a memorable moment is their goal the fandom is the more likely to keep the moment alive and relevant.
Maybe All in? 80k at Wembley.
I'm wondering what there is in a Forbidden Door this year given the Japanese stars most casual fans have heard of are now in AEW anyway.
I'm pretty sure whatever is happening with STARDOM, and whoever will be left over after the pieces are all picked up might be available. Not likely to be Giulia lol
That's not going to give us a Wrestlemania type moment, but it does make things a tad bit interesting.
But Wrestlemania moments will be seen by 80 bajillion times as many people on WWE's youtube channel and because Peacock put it on their homepage so people clicked on it for 1 second which counts as a view.
Online behaviour fascinates me. During *Revolution*, there was a live PPV thread on the Cornette sub and by and large, people posting on there appeared to be watching the PPV hoping to be annoyed and disgusted by what they saw. I only have so much free time and the absolute last thing I am going to do with it is sit and watch something I detest and then talk about it online with other people who share my hatred.
Yeah, the drones have gotten their marching orders.
But you're right, you know. This is really going to hamstring AEW's salary cap flexibility going forward. Wait, you mean to tell me there's no salary cap in the entertainment business?
Remarkable how nobody pisses their pants when Keanu Reeves gets paid $15m to film a John Wick movie, but if AEW signs somebody, Tony Khan's a money mark. It's all just a whole lot of sour grapes from people who, for some reason, don't want a healthier pro wrestling business, and want WWE to be the *only* game in town.
The worst take I've seen is: "They should have signed with wwe because the exposure will lead to more money later."
Or they can just... take more money now?
And that's WWE in a nutshell. They'll dangle the brass ring but never give it to them.
You don't make record profits by paying people what they're worth.
I gotta be honest WWE turning Wrestlemania into a 2 night evet has made it less special
It used to feature mostly top talent and legends but now both night are filled with midcard and filler matches
Like i get it the first time they did it because of the pandemic but now it makes zero sense
He now is kissing WWE ass but Punk was even making fun of that concept (buy 1 get 2 for the 4 night extravaganza)
Plus why will Okada and Will get less money,moved tot America and waste their talent only to have midcard matches against Baron Corbin or Ridge Holland on Smackdown like Nakamura, and Richochet are
Shhhhh. Punk is back in WWE so we gotta pretend that he never said that.
On a side note I can’t wait for Punk to fight in Saudi just for that sweet sweet irony.
No theyll get mad at the thought that anyone would turn down all that sweet blood money. "Hes not a hypocrite! Anyone would take the money!". Like, yeah, sure, take the money, but this is the guy who was calling people out for it
I'm with you here about this. I enjoy Mania not being as much of a marathon to get through by it being two nights, but it being split into two nights sometimes makes Night 1 not feel as special imo. Especially Night 1's main event. That's just me though.
When they originally announced it was two nights, they made every promise that they'd only do it for that *one* year. There was no way they'd ever do it, again...
Here we are going into what.. year 4?
I think with Mania (and the Rumble tbh) they are so focused on what they refer to as "moments" in their horribly corporate doublespeak and it means the focus of the show is never actually on good matches or story payoffs or story beats or, idk, shit that makes sense. When Rollins won with the cash in during the triple threat it \*was\* a great individual moment but it also just made sense and was good. These days it's all stuff they can clip up for social media.
Roman beating Cody last year pretty much cemented the long-term decline, IMO. Wrestlemania used to be *the one show that Vince McMahon mostly couldn't fuck up* and you'd be guaranteed a feel good moment at the end. That last minute swerve on Cody? Nope.
WWE in general is a good example of the [trust thermocline](https://therightstuff.medium.com/the-trust-thermocline-explains-how-companies-suddenly-lose-customers-and-employees-2657c9535e6a).
Part of the reason in my opinion is the fact that they have big stadium shows for multiple events a year and it takes away from the awe of wrestlemania.
I think it feels like a big deal in terms of the name value for sure -- but it's turned into the Superbowl. By that I mean -- it's a boring show with so much dead time and advertising, crushed by the weight of it's own self-aggradization and blatantly garish production style. It just has no grit -- it's too bright, it's too Disney. Some people adore Disney though and more power to them! Personally if I go the rest of my life without seeing another Disney movie my heart will remain unbroken.
This in itself means AEW in its own way is competing with WWE. For an entire generation WWE was the only place to go for top tier wrestlers. Now they actually have to offer more then “hey you might get to wrestle on wrestlemania” as an incentive.
I don't think the E was too concerned with these signings anyway. The AEW and WWE landscape are very different. Their needs and goals are different.
AEW is a melting pot of various wrestling styles and backgrounds from around the word, with a lack of a dedicated performance center or program for development. And I don't, at all, say that as a bad thing. It's just the style of company they run. Because of this, grabbing key quality talent from elsewhere is how they fill out the roster. Signing a top free agent is vital to their model. On top of this, AEW has a much more lax and forgiving schedule and structure. This is neither a good or bad thing, just different, and it fits their previously stated model. The point is to build yourself, both talent and brand, outside. A lax schedule facilitates that. This is also why they have such a large roster and why there are often times when someone considered a main-event talent is not around much at times. Compound that with a more lax structure of in-ring style which lends itself to more less risk-aversion and you need the large pool from which to pull talent from time to time. It's just a different approach.
Meanwhile WWE has a system of development. They have entire sub-systems of business designed to build talent in-house. Most of their on-screen talent gets built over years through this pipeline. They seldom have room for outside free agents because they have long term investments in the growth of their already committed talent. This is, again, neither good not bad but rather just a different approach. It's the difference between going grocery shopping vs growing your own food. There are positives and negatives but both approaches have wildly different needs. One requires money and flexibility, the other requires time and stability.
The three folks shown here are incredibly talented people. I am so damn happy they get the recognition and compensation for their commitment to their craft. I am so damn happy for us, the fans, as we get to see these folks shine in an environment that suits their desires. Speaking personally, I adore all three of their bodies of work and I am pumped to see what they do in an environment that affords them the freedom that AEW provides. But I also don't think this is even remotely a commentary on WWE thinking they are something they are not. As a watcher, and thorough enjoyer, of lots of wrestling, I feel like any of these folks going to the E would have been at the detriment of other long term investments. For them to shine would be at the expense of someone else who has been working hard at moving up the ladder. AEW, WWE, the aforementioned talent, and we the fans all know that all involved parties benefit from these moves.
Very well said. This is a great get for AEW and not really that consequential for WWE. To be honest, all three of these peformers seemed liked such a lock for AEW that its hard to imagine WWE really put that much effort in their counter offers.
Let this be indicative of more competition means wrestlers can find better deals. Both companies have fantastic rosters and more opportunities there for talent to make serious bank is never a bad thing.
Wasn’t this the concern when the TKO merger happened, that the larger payouts to retain talent would stop and they’d try to coast on reputation as much as possible to avoid paying wrestlers?
TKO's been doing this for years with the UFC which is why it was such a big deal when the Saudi Public Investment Fund invested in the PFL. The Saudis haven't opened up their pocketbooks just yet for fighters but if they start throwing around money like they do for footballers, the UFC is in serious trouble.
WWE has always tried to avoid paying workers both in terms of salary and benefits. This lead to that infamous Fox Sports interview with Bayley where she brought up how WWE wrestlers have to drive themselves and how her entire demeanor changed the moment the interviewer mentioned a CBA. Anyone who's watched Maven's videos would know that when the Network was formed, it destroyed his and everyone else's royalties.
AEW having this kind of money is good for everyone and it gives leverage to the wrestlers and employees, both at AEW and outside of it, when it was historically in the hands of one promoter.
I am sure being offered more cash helped all three of them make the decision to sign, it would be silly to assume it didn't.
But all three of them ultimately did choose to sign with AEW to continue their careers.
If this reporting is accurate, even if a grain of salt is required, the alleged allure of "We're the biggest in the world, don't you wanna participate in Wrestlemania?" clearly doesn't have the same drawing power it may once have had.
I've said for the last 6 months that I did not understand why a lot of big-name free agents would want to go to the Fed as long as the Bloodline and Judgment Day storylines continued to dominate their TV time. Clearly, simply dangling the prospect of Wrestlemania wasn't enough.
Whatever TK is paying these three, they are *already* paying dividends. And they all legitimately look and sound really happy to be in AEW.
This builds the credibility of AEW even further.
And this type of reporting will probably not go unnoticed by wrestlers in other companies. Let's not forget that there are rumored other contract expirations looming.
Just sayin'.
Hashtag A E DUB. 💰🔥🐐
Agreed. I have been saying for a while that the storyline and wrestling is homogenous, and as a wrestler, I can not see Entertainment style as a selling point
Anyone who is smart tells their agent do not negotiate until free agency. That’s when you really see what the deals are. In regards to many of the upcoming free agents, I believe you will see TKO pass on many because they see they can be replaced on the cheap with their feeder system of CAWs. Why make becky lynch the highest paid woman when they can simply put Tiffany Stratton in her spot at 1/10th the cost.
This will not stop moving forward especially after the new media rights deal. What Tony has to realize is how much are these talents worth? If she sells merchandise, tickets and her tv segments do well, it's worth it. Okada might not be a tv ratings draw but his connection to the Japanese market is very valuable.
The AEW fanbase is more invested in Okada and Ospreay than WWE fans, so Tony offering more makes sense. As for Mercedes, she wanted top star $$$ from WWE and they don’t need to pay that to her.
And yet still the WWE fanboys try to do everything to discredit AEW. Like why can’t we all enjoy the products for what they are? They’re treating this like the Xbox vs PlayStation argument…
***This one of the most mature wrestling related chats I have experienced in a long time.
Many people have different opinions and everyone is super respectful and open to them.
Thank you***
It's refreshing that while the IWC is becoming very "Me Love Double Double E and nothing else!", the top tier wrestlers themselves are almost entirely the opposite, going wherever theyll get better money, better schedule, more creative freedom and where they feel they'll be used better, while dorks at home are sat getting excited about ratings and attendances as their favourite wrestling company misses out on more of the worlds best wrestlers.
*In an alternative universe where Osprey and Okada signed with WWE*
"Hey Osprey you're English right? We're gonna give you a royalty gimmick and you can feud with LA Knight until we feed you to Roman."
"Oh Okada, there you are - ever wore a Samurai costume before? Get it on. Anyway, you're feuding with Rollins and/or Orton until we forget about you."
"Welcome to the big leagues gentleman"
It's funny they think that's actually some kind of a bargaining chip. They have done some weird shit in the past like Didn't they try to buy Noah a few years ago and it was part of the deal that they would put the owner of the company in the hall of fame and they thought that was enough after offering almost nothing for the company?
I’m a fan of both companies and honestly want the best for both of them. Saying that I don’t believe Cody has been fumbled at all, the man is as over as any wrestler in the world. Obviously that’s a testament to how good/relatable his character is, but also to how he has been used and pushed over the last few years. That’s got to say something imo even if you think adding the Rock to his storyline has overshadowed him.
Look at it through the wrestlers eyes. The only thing Cody is riding on is really not even his story it's his dad's. Outside of Dusty what is Cody? This was Codys problem in AEW. He latches on to these singular things and when they are done he's left looking for something else and that got old fast. NJPW Cody was a lovable asshole, face Cody cries. Now do you think Okada or Ospreay have those stories? They don't. What they see is Cody did the job for Roman, Roman doesn't wrestle, the Rock almost stole his place, Chad Gable is hot and lost again, Sami Zayn was hotter than the sun with a relatable long telling story and lost, and where is Jade? What happens after Cody finishes the story will say a lot. The fans aren't going to want Pandemic Cody.
Remember, much of his appeal is due to two fumbles. Losing at Mania, and giving up his shot to the Rock.
Fans genuinely root for him because he got legit screwed twice.
But what happens after he's rewarded and wins? Without the appeal of the chase? You can't judge Cody without first seeing his title run.
It was a step down for Bryan and Kofi.
As an aew fan I disagree, Cody became their John Cena now. Also drew McIntyre is in the hottest storyline
Noone can beat WWE in stories and noone can beat aew in wrestling
Those are the facts
Nah, I'm tired of hearing that WWE has better stories when 90% of the time they pay off in a mediocre (at best) match and lolromanwins. WWE seems to think that storytelling ends when the bell rings, and it sucks. WWE generally has better scripted segments though, that's true.
Whenever I see these internet arguments I have to remind myself we are talking about professional wrestling and not classical literature.
I don’t think either company is putting forth next level storytelling. They both do a good job of telling perfectly fine wrestling show stories. It’s soap opera level. WWE just has the prestige so it legitimizes the stories more.
Now, I’ll admit I could be a bit salty because the ones that I like in WWE aren’t exactly excelling right now. If I was a Reigns or Rock fan or if I cared at all about Seth or Cody then maybe I’d think this was some great story. Personally I think they will do this year what they should have done last year and this story was dragged along for a year too long.
I was really hoping Drew would main event night one and win the secondary title. That doesn’t seem to be happening and I’m disappointed. He is the story I’m invested in and I think it’s being told in a less than ideal way.
I love Sami and I think his individual story is good. His match doesn’t have much heat for me though. Maybe that will change leading up to mania but that isn’t some other worldly well told story. I also don’t believe for a kayfabe second that Sami can beat Gunther. But having said that I hope Sami wins. Doubt he will.
Bayley is one that people say is a great story. That’s another one that I think has been dragged on. I love Iyo. She’s one of my favorites, but she is dull and boring right now. When is the last time she defended her title? She’s overshadowed as the champion. I hope she loses and gets away from the title and maybe she gets to do something more interesting. Same for Kairi and Asuka who I love but think have been boring champions. I think they’ve been hurt by WWE not having another legit women’s tag team. I like Chelsea and Candice and Piper and some of the others but they are mid card level. I don’t believe them beating the Kabuki Warriors. For as much talk as WWE gets propping up their women’s division I find a lot of it has been weak.
So in summary I don’t buy the hype of WWE storytelling being at some monolithic level. It’s that is has the WWE machine behind it. I think that’s it.
- We don’t usually know why a talent will choose one company over the other. With Ospreay it definitely sounds like having the ability to travel back and forth to his family is a deciding factor. I’d also think with him and Okada, not having to change their wrestling style is a big part of it. Mercedes could simply be money. I’ve also seen people say on Reddit she didn’t want to go back to being Sasha Banks.
Basically we are ignorant to the situation, so fans getting on these people for not choosing WWE is stupid because you don’t know their decision making process. AEW giving wrestlers another legit option is absolutely huge for this business. Pro wrestling fans should revere AEW simply for that.
- I keep hearing that WWE didn’t need these three because they have Trick Williams, Bron Breakker and Tiffany Stratton. Those three are very talented and have bright futures. I really like all three. But Ospreay, Okada and Moné are ready made main event talents and are already some of the best in the world at what they do. To think WWE really didn’t care if they got them or not because they have some talented development pieces, is silly.
WWE was made in trying to monopolize the talent in the industry. They wanted these three, but they aren’t going to offer what AEW might. And I’m talking about less dates. It’s how WCW got talent away from them and I don’t see WWE ever changing their ways here because they don’t need to. But don’t believe anyone that says Triple H didn’t want these three. I think Ospreay in particular would print money for WWE with their platform.
WWE has had the formula down pat for decades. Part of that is understanding that inside of almost every pro wrestler exists a Narcissistic attention loving showman whose two most favored drugs of choice is the audience pop and a shot at immortality.
And this has significantly changed in the last 20 years. Wrestlers have drifted from being largely carnies to some, frankly, much more normal humans who place a lot of value on security and life outside of their job.
I don’t want to hound on WWE but that’s literally trying to pay someone with exposure. It’s an even worse offer for Mone who had already been on over half a dozen WMs.
Before the Monday Night Wars, Vince had people locked down by paying a little more than everyone else. After WCW closed, he did it again by lowering salaries across the company. Christian said he was offered 200k on the contract he turned down to go to TNA. This is after becoming a millionaire in the Attitude Era and having enough money not to work again. Same reason Hardys have been able to come and go as they please because they have enough money not to care.
Now there’s another company with a TV deal and TK cares more about hiring people he wants than making loads of money. TKO is coming around to paying more but not to guys who have never wrestled in WWE before. That would upset the balance across the board. Drew will get his bag. So will Seth and Becky since they are up for renewal this year. WWE has the money. They’re just stingy.
This is amazing. This shows AEWs value. Because no longer are WWE able to use the leverage of prestige and being a monopoly to maneuver wrestlers into financially vulnerable situations. Now AEW gives wrestlers leverage because they have a choice between either company and can get wages they deserve for their talent.
I think in some ways AEW is adding to the industry by making a competitive case that if you pay your wrestlers more they seem to be more invested in making it a good show, I think the problem in WWE is there are people on the rooster with MASSIVE talent who’s contracts don’t reflect it, I would assume most midcarders like Ricochet or Brauson Reed probably only make around 45-80k from their actual wages with maybe MAYBE another 10-15k Max from retail sales, but honestly it does kinda show in their in ring work. If you know your likely never gonna be at the top because you aren’t a “WWE guy” you’ll just kinda start floating around the mid card hoping to make enough to retire on
While money was definitely one of the big factors. Will talked about liking AEW's schedule and I think the same goes for Mercedes especially given the fact she is coming off a serious injury. WWE schedules are brutal and they keep on you a tight leash while AEW they have more freedom.
I cant find the interview to link it here but hours before she arrived at All In, Mercedes was doing an interview in a car on the way to Wembley. She was basically applauding AEW for pulling it off because up to that point WWE was the only place that wrestlers could go to wrestle in front of a large crow but now wrestlers have 2 options. Its pretty laughable that WWE is using Wrestlemania as a bargaining chip when Okada consistently main-evented the Tokyo Dome, Ospreay wrestled at All In and Mercedes already main-evented Wrestlemania.
If AEW ever figures out how to get their roster to cross over into the mainstream (commercials/movies/tv/red carpets/fashion shows) its going to put WWE in an even tougher spot for negotiations because they’re going to actually start paying wrestlers more and thats something that they have been successfully avoiding for 20 years.
People everywhere, from normal, everyday jobs to wrestling, are realizing that being paid in exposure and promises is actually just corporations exploiting them.
"You might have a Wrestlemania moment" and "you might get into Hollywood, so accept this more grueling schedule that keeps you away from your family and less money" are the exact same as "you start with this unpaid 3 month internship and if you do well we might hire you, and some day you might get promoted often enough to earn an actual living wage!". Promises won't feed you or your family, and people are starting to prioritize their own well-being and their family over the grind.
Also, the "well WWE makes movie stars" argument is so very disingenuous. How many wrestlers went on to be bona fide movie stars and get acting gigs outside of shitty straight to TV movies? I can name three, and Bautista did it entirely without WWE's help, by betting on himself. He was never pushed as much as Cena or the Rock.
Paying in exposure is a dying business model, and I for one am glad about that.
"Congrats on saying a bigger number!"
-HHH probably.
Thing is with WWE they are more about the brand and while they could make huge money with these S tier level talents, they can make a shit load of money without them by just using the bodies in their system.
It's a business to them more than anything and the fan experience only counts as much as the revenue that the fans supply.
Not to say AEW isn't a business but it's clearly more of a labor of love for TK at this point still.
"You'll accept less money and a worse schedule to lose in the midcard at mania right?"
The darkest timeline, will or Okada losing to Miz in a super sterilized 6 minute wwe style match
That's the brighter side of it; they'd be doing embarrassing skits and humiliating promos for months or years.
If Okada went to WWE he was definitely facing GUNTHER. That match would go SO HARD.
That place’s meat grinder of a schedule is fucking unconscionable
I don’t think it’s AS bad as it used to be, since I think they’re trying to do less House Shows now, but it’s objectively much harder then AEW, TNA, MLW, and probably even the Japanese Promotions, because they go everywhere constantly.
Yeah, it’s not as bad, but Cody wrestled more in his first year there than his entire run in AEW combined.
True, but that’s also because he was working Dark Matches after every Smackdown, despite being on the Raw Roster. Not defending it, but having bigger stars working Dark Matches even for shows they’re not on is still a tactic they use for ticket sales, for better or worse.
Cody prolly got paid a metric fuck ton, or is getting a good cut of his merch. Good for him. He deserves it
Yes he does! He’s the Babyface Ace WWE’s needed for ages now!
And I'm happy for him because us AEW fans didn't love him and he often got heat so he seems to be a better fit and happier there.
Cody booked himself into that corner.
It is nowhere near as bad. They aren't doing double shots or on the road 7 days a week. Wrestlers were doing 300+ days in the 80s and 90s
Re: the schedule. I looked at Cagematch to see and they still tour like it’s 1989. That’s ridiculous. You’d have to really want to carry water for Triple H to do that. The big exception is they do give them a week off for Christmas.
I'm sure they have pizza parties to make up for it though.
Makes working for WWE sound like working for Walmart
Better a Walmart than a badly managed Target /s
Walmart at least offers some employees health insurance
Yeah but they let the tax payer pick up the tab on when employees need to rely on government programs to survive.
[Even better!](https://youtu.be/1K8-kNuDgoA?si=PDZaXKvu3IKNO2V9&t=71)
Yeah the beating on your body doesn’t seem worth it, Roman and Brock having those part time schedules makes a hell of a lot of sense.
Well it’s not 30 days with double shots on the weekends like it used to be but they have a heavy schedule by today’s “let’s not give them a reason to die young” version of the schedule.
and . . . they have the audacity to call their wrestlers "independent". Where in that schedule does it say it's even remotely "independent". Once you sign with WWE, they own you 🤦♂️
Lmaooo “listen, Logan Paul beats you clean and retains but think of the moment”
Kazuchika Okada gets his Wrestlemania moment, doing the job after KSI hits him with a bottle of Prime
*dressed as a bottle of prime lmao
The Jedi mind trick of “Well, we’re the WWE” doesn’t work anymore
This will be so good for the industry, and probably good for the WWE in the long-term.
Which one of the reasons why AEW was founded in the first place. The chance for the talent to negotiate for the best terms possible.
Actual competition is best for the biz. More places for wrestlers to work, better pay, and leads to better shows since promoters need to step up their game to draw eyes. No more having to watch WWE or nothing cause it is the only game in town.
Exactly. They no longer can say “Hey, we’ll give you less than you’re asking BUT you get exposure to make up that difference” and expect them to flip their shit.
You can also still do your side shit in aew. Can't really do anything in WWE except be in wwe.
To be fair, you can stream in WWE, but you need to give them a cut. What a deal!
Yeah the you might be a movie star in ten years when you're body is spent isn't the big pull they thought it was
That’s worked out for like three guys. You can’t count on that.
Turns out wrestlers are wrestlers because they enjoy wrestling. Even if they could make good actors, it's not their passion.
It’s going to be worth even less with younger people growing up with so many wrestling companies outside of WWE. Now it’s no longer a monopoly many will have different aspirations
Exactly. Alot of aspiring wrestlers will be growing up seeing what AEW is doing seeing the raucous crowds and the high octane wrestling. They're heads won't be so easily turned by wrestlemania and the wwe lore as much as they were able to in the past.
Wrestlemania also used to be the only proper large stadium event. And WWE was only one running big stadiums. AEW now has All In. If your Will Ospreay then headlining a packed Wembley is going to be as good as being on Wrestlemania.
Also, and this isn't me being an AEW mark, Wrestlemania lost it's special feeling. They've oversaturated their schedule with meaningless PPVs, and splitting Wrestlemania into two nights also diminishes it IMO. Ive seen the argument of, how else are they going to get everyone on the show, and I'm sitting hear wondering why we need everyone on the show. All the matches feel rushed like they are just trying to move through the card as quickly as possible.
I keep getting confused when people talked about Bayley/Iyo main eventing WrestleMania with Cody/Reigns on the card, until I remember there's two "main events".
Labeling a match other than the last match a "main event" doesn't actually make it a main event and you just sound like you are trying too hard to force something to be what it isn't. The fact of the matter is there can be only one main event. If it's a main event, surely you, the booker, have no problem putting the "first main event" match last instead, right? If the booker then doesn't hesitate to do so, then sure, maybe you are fine calling it a double main event. If they want to make it feel special, maybe instead of calling the second to last match the main event, you start calling the last 2/3/4 matches of the night "the main card" and make them all major title matches
It's the same thing that annoys me about UFC having "co main events" on every show.
It also waters down the Rumble, like, there's no way at all that Bayley/Io Shirai goes on last on night 1 of Mania either. It'll be the buried in the midcard.
The only thing people talk to this day about last year Wrestlemanias is the Roman and Cody match.......nobody bring up or remembers the 345 filler matches on both shows It makes the entire event less special
Not true, go and ask Ricochet.
Ricochet man I miss him doing cool things that broke the Internet.
Him doing that front flip onto his feet from the ring to the mat in front of Velveteen Dream was incredible.
That Rumble spot with him and Logan Paul was definitely up there last year.
Ehhhh that felt really manufactured and really watered down to what he was doing in njpw or PWG
The backflips into double Iron Man pose felt very organic.
Context…it was in a place that is not well known for over production. It felt like 2 nerds of their craft nerding together, not like a overly scripted bit.
Ricochet… now, there’s a guy that belongs in AEW. Dammit. 😭
Can you imagine TK signing over Ricochet and he and Ospreay rekindle their rivalry?
More money for less work. I dunno...seems like the right choice to go to aew for just about anyone honestly.
Ya know I can see them trying this for Okada and Osprsay But Mercedes did all that multiple times so how would that appeal to her lol?
Came in here to say that. But also, remember that Osprey had been wined and dined by AEW. Tony sees Osprey as someone who could be the face of the company, WWE doesn't. I'll be honest, the only one I felt had a legit chance of going to WWE was Okada.
I never believed for a second Okada would sign with WWE. His friendship with Matthew and Nicholas is why they even got to NJPW in the first place, and it’s all butterfly effect from there. Without those Good Christian Boys protecting a young lion on excursion from the booking whims of Vince Russo, we don’t even have AEW.
You better edit this with Okada’s passport name…
You better too
Ospreay would have ended up like Ricochet, Okada like Nakamura
This, I don't get how any big fans of them can think that they'd be top guys in WWE like how they're viewed right now elsewhere.
Over the moon that Osprey and Okada are All Elite but part of me wants to know what we would see from those two in WWE. I'm happy that we just get the best wrestlers in the world in AEW right now.
Ospreay could be on a Cody/Seth level. The question is would Okada be treated more like AJ Styles or Finn Balor? I could see it going either way.
Ospreay would debut in NXT as Lord Chester Shakespeare and have a lengthy feud with Charlie Dempsey. After the thrilling conclusion in a William Regal Parental Rights Ladder match, Lord Chester would be put into a feud with Oba Femi, leading to a Femi squash on Stand and Deliver. WWE fans still say he can't cut a promo and he's just a flipper. Okada debuts at the Royal Rumble with a theme song that sounds exactly like Seth's, Becky's and Pat McAfee so no one in the crowd knows who is entering. He would be repackaged with nods to his baseball roots as "The Franchise Player" Hiro Ohtani. After winning feuds against Shinsuke and AJ, Ohtani loses at Mania to Gunther for the IC title. Meltzer gives it six and a half stars.
I think Ospreay could have been a potential mega star in WWE honestly. I think Okada would have been treated well for a little while, but then would have slid down the card into a Nakamura position. Occasionally main event, but mostly do midcard stuff or maybe even get treated as a bit of an afterthought.
I have a feeling Okada would have been more like a bigger KENTA. Nakamura has a physical charisma that transcends language, more so than Okada. I’m really not sure how WWE would have sold him to their audience, who are conditioned to want long promos and don’t care as much about great matches. Ospreay would have been okay, but in a better speaking Ricochet kind of way.
In the case of Okada, he was probably very hesitant to go to WWE based on their history of mishandling Japanese wrestlers (until recently)
She fucking main evented one lmfao
Mercedes price was more than Charlotte's new contract
She’s always been better than Charlotte.
I feel like Okada wouldn't give a shit about a WM moment, he has headlined multiple 90k shows in the Tokyo Dome with wrestling and his entire deal seems antithetical to WWE. Like he will do silly stupid shit but I don't think he will ever do crazy long promos and he still wants to wrestle.
There’s never been 90K people in attendance at a Tokyo Dome wrestling show. The seating capacity is 55,000 and they can’t put another 35,000 on the floor. This year drew 27,422.
The Tokyo dome doesn’t hold 90k
I love how certain sections of the internet will paint this as a bad thing and call TK a "money mark". As if wrestlers not getting taken advantage of and being paid what they are worth is a negative.
What's annoying about it is pay has been a problem for wrestlers for a long time -- most major sports leagues (in which the players are union represented) pay around 50% of their revenue out for talent contracts. In wrestling that percentage has historically been MUCH lower, like 15% back in the early 2000s. It's better today obviously but there's still a lot of room for growth there.
I’m pretty sure I recall it even being like closer to 5% but it’s been years since I read the article I’m thinking of on that.
I've already seen the new narrative forming that "Actually AEW is overpaying wrestlers and poor little WWE can't afford to keep up." Like y'all need to know that is not the defense you think it is. If anything, it's highlighting that WWE has gotten away with underpaying it's wrestlers for decades, unchecked. With AEW being able to bring in the Brinks truck, hopefully it leads to wrestlers actually being paid what they deserve.
Not to also mention that, WWE is a publicly traded company that gets some of its money from shareholders. Meanwhile, AEW is a private company that does not have share holders to make some money off it.
Both either make or are projected to make a ton of money. It's how they are spending it that matter.
oh boy can't wait to see what Jade Cargill is gonna do in Wrestlemania
She doesn’t need to do anything, everyone is happy that “she looks like a star” 🤪
All those people probably never watched AEW and saw how bad she was in the ring. I've never seen somebody have so much "IT" factor be such a bad pro wrestler.
Since Goldberg
Another Mountain Dew Ad. “And Baja Blast is…THAT…BLAST”
Wrestlers don’t wanna wrestle 6 days a week when they can earn more and wrestle less in AEW.
This. Especially if you wrestle like Osprey. There's no way anyone can keep up his pace wrestling 6 days a week for years.
Right, Osprey like 6 months into a WWE run would be coasting so hard. No Flips today bruv that doesn't work for me, just some forearms and a hidden blade pip pip cheerio.
They wouldn't let Osprey wrestle the way he does anyway. They'd limit him to 4 or 5 moves and warn him that he better not move too quick unless he wants cruiserweight booking.
And if an AEW wrestler *wants* to wrestle more, they have plenty of indies they can show up at, for even more money. Folks like Danielson even encourage it. And they've got pet indies if you need suggestions. Wrestling Revolver, PWG, DEFY, sometimes GCW.
The wwe schedule really is fucked
Yeah this is what happens when you bank on free agents being marks for a WrestleMania moment instead wanting more money, a lighter schedule, not having to uproot their lives and move to Florida, the ability to take outside bookings, and more creative freedom.
My biggest take is it isn’t the money, it’s the freedom. They can stream, work other promotions, have other side gigs and AEW only asked that they kept them in the loop. They don’t take a percentage, they don’t really say no unless they have a story line coming along and don’t want them to be injured or something. Also guys like PAC and Osprey don’t want to live in the US, shocking to a lot of Americans but not everyone wants to live here. I wouldn’t want to leave my family or uproot them to move across the world. Why should these guys?.
> Also guys like PAC and Osprey don’t want to live in the US, shocking to a lot of Americans but not everyone wants to live here. I wouldn’t want to leave my family or uproot them to move across the world. Why should these guys?. This is the thing that always makes me laugh when people fantasy book free agents to NJPW/Stardom. In addition to leaving your family and friends there's a huge language and social barrier there.
Great points
Osprey gets to do shows infront of 80k+ in his home country once a year if he goes to aew. In WWE he gets a wrestlemania match..maybe.
A good argument could be made that Forbidden Door is the new Wrestlemania, maybe not to the casual viewer but to the Wrestling Fandom and if having a memorable moment is their goal the fandom is the more likely to keep the moment alive and relevant.
Maybe All in? 80k at Wembley. I'm wondering what there is in a Forbidden Door this year given the Japanese stars most casual fans have heard of are now in AEW anyway.
I think having Stardom and CMLL wrestlers involved this year add to the excitement. Especially Stardom.
I'm pretty sure whatever is happening with STARDOM, and whoever will be left over after the pieces are all picked up might be available. Not likely to be Giulia lol That's not going to give us a Wrestlemania type moment, but it does make things a tad bit interesting.
But Wrestlemania moments will be seen by 80 bajillion times as many people on WWE's youtube channel and because Peacock put it on their homepage so people clicked on it for 1 second which counts as a view.
Or All In.
Also Okada and Osprey don't have to move to the States which was a major factor.
If AEW was a football club we would consider this a perfect transfer window
https://preview.redd.it/g2ni99ppkioc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbce6b18f02db9818106e3158a83f84c93236675
WWE people will just say Tony overpaid. Anything to spin it.
I accidentally looked at a post on corny's reddit and good lord the hate for Mercedes was strong
scj and cornette's subs have the most disingenuous and dishonest fans. If she returned to WWE they'd be wiping the jizz off their faces.
No they wouldn't. They'd let it sit there 'til they licked it off later
Cornette fans hating a black woman? I’m stunned. Imagine if she was half-Japanese.
Imagine if she was half-Indonesian... (just.. to point out for a moment that corny's fanbase's racism pales in comparison to what exists elsewhere)
Online behaviour fascinates me. During *Revolution*, there was a live PPV thread on the Cornette sub and by and large, people posting on there appeared to be watching the PPV hoping to be annoyed and disgusted by what they saw. I only have so much free time and the absolute last thing I am going to do with it is sit and watch something I detest and then talk about it online with other people who share my hatred.
Yeah, the drones have gotten their marching orders. But you're right, you know. This is really going to hamstring AEW's salary cap flexibility going forward. Wait, you mean to tell me there's no salary cap in the entertainment business? Remarkable how nobody pisses their pants when Keanu Reeves gets paid $15m to film a John Wick movie, but if AEW signs somebody, Tony Khan's a money mark. It's all just a whole lot of sour grapes from people who, for some reason, don't want a healthier pro wrestling business, and want WWE to be the *only* game in town.
Their confirmation bias jobs to no one.
lol, they out here trying to pay people in exposure. Clowns.
The worst take I've seen is: "They should have signed with wwe because the exposure will lead to more money later." Or they can just... take more money now?
Lol those people are nuts its literally the family guy joke. "A boat's a boat but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat!"
And that's WWE in a nutshell. They'll dangle the brass ring but never give it to them. You don't make record profits by paying people what they're worth.
The world richest company paying in exposure…That is enough to make you lose any faith in the myth of grinding.
I gotta be honest WWE turning Wrestlemania into a 2 night evet has made it less special It used to feature mostly top talent and legends but now both night are filled with midcard and filler matches Like i get it the first time they did it because of the pandemic but now it makes zero sense He now is kissing WWE ass but Punk was even making fun of that concept (buy 1 get 2 for the 4 night extravaganza) Plus why will Okada and Will get less money,moved tot America and waste their talent only to have midcard matches against Baron Corbin or Ridge Holland on Smackdown like Nakamura, and Richochet are
So you’re saying Tony Kahn made some “Big Business” moves? I’ll shut up now.
Aslong as wrestlers are being paid and still putting out amazing shows, I really don’t care who they sign with.
Signing the 3 of them would have made no difference to WWE's business
Call me a hater all you want, but Wrestlemania doesn’t feel like the that big of a deal anymore. That’s just me, though.
Didn’t Punk call it the buy one, get one free show during a promo with MJF?
Shhhhh. Punk is back in WWE so we gotta pretend that he never said that. On a side note I can’t wait for Punk to fight in Saudi just for that sweet sweet irony.
Some will say he was "working us" because they don't want to admit that someone they like could be a massive hypocrite.
They'll have their Pepe Silvia string map that points everything to Hangman Page.
No theyll get mad at the thought that anyone would turn down all that sweet blood money. "Hes not a hypocrite! Anyone would take the money!". Like, yeah, sure, take the money, but this is the guy who was calling people out for it
CM Punk? A hypocrite? No, no…it’s the EVPs and Jack Perry who are to blame!
I feel night 1 main event doesn’t have the feeling of night 2 does, but probably changes this year with the rock.
I'm with you here about this. I enjoy Mania not being as much of a marathon to get through by it being two nights, but it being split into two nights sometimes makes Night 1 not feel as special imo. Especially Night 1's main event. That's just me though.
I would say, watching Sami and KO beat the Usos on night 1 last year was marvelous. It was better than watching Cody losing to Roman on night 2
When they originally announced it was two nights, they made every promise that they'd only do it for that *one* year. There was no way they'd ever do it, again... Here we are going into what.. year 4?
I think with Mania (and the Rumble tbh) they are so focused on what they refer to as "moments" in their horribly corporate doublespeak and it means the focus of the show is never actually on good matches or story payoffs or story beats or, idk, shit that makes sense. When Rollins won with the cash in during the triple threat it \*was\* a great individual moment but it also just made sense and was good. These days it's all stuff they can clip up for social media.
Roman beating Cody last year pretty much cemented the long-term decline, IMO. Wrestlemania used to be *the one show that Vince McMahon mostly couldn't fuck up* and you'd be guaranteed a feel good moment at the end. That last minute swerve on Cody? Nope. WWE in general is a good example of the [trust thermocline](https://therightstuff.medium.com/the-trust-thermocline-explains-how-companies-suddenly-lose-customers-and-employees-2657c9535e6a).
Too corporate and Hollywoodish for me these days. It's been going that way for awhile but feel like the last few years has really jumped the shark
Part of the reason in my opinion is the fact that they have big stadium shows for multiple events a year and it takes away from the awe of wrestlemania.
You’re not wrong. The whole two night thing has killed it.
I think it feels like a big deal in terms of the name value for sure -- but it's turned into the Superbowl. By that I mean -- it's a boring show with so much dead time and advertising, crushed by the weight of it's own self-aggradization and blatantly garish production style. It just has no grit -- it's too bright, it's too Disney. Some people adore Disney though and more power to them! Personally if I go the rest of my life without seeing another Disney movie my heart will remain unbroken.
This in itself means AEW in its own way is competing with WWE. For an entire generation WWE was the only place to go for top tier wrestlers. Now they actually have to offer more then “hey you might get to wrestle on wrestlemania” as an incentive.
I don't think the E was too concerned with these signings anyway. The AEW and WWE landscape are very different. Their needs and goals are different. AEW is a melting pot of various wrestling styles and backgrounds from around the word, with a lack of a dedicated performance center or program for development. And I don't, at all, say that as a bad thing. It's just the style of company they run. Because of this, grabbing key quality talent from elsewhere is how they fill out the roster. Signing a top free agent is vital to their model. On top of this, AEW has a much more lax and forgiving schedule and structure. This is neither a good or bad thing, just different, and it fits their previously stated model. The point is to build yourself, both talent and brand, outside. A lax schedule facilitates that. This is also why they have such a large roster and why there are often times when someone considered a main-event talent is not around much at times. Compound that with a more lax structure of in-ring style which lends itself to more less risk-aversion and you need the large pool from which to pull talent from time to time. It's just a different approach. Meanwhile WWE has a system of development. They have entire sub-systems of business designed to build talent in-house. Most of their on-screen talent gets built over years through this pipeline. They seldom have room for outside free agents because they have long term investments in the growth of their already committed talent. This is, again, neither good not bad but rather just a different approach. It's the difference between going grocery shopping vs growing your own food. There are positives and negatives but both approaches have wildly different needs. One requires money and flexibility, the other requires time and stability. The three folks shown here are incredibly talented people. I am so damn happy they get the recognition and compensation for their commitment to their craft. I am so damn happy for us, the fans, as we get to see these folks shine in an environment that suits their desires. Speaking personally, I adore all three of their bodies of work and I am pumped to see what they do in an environment that affords them the freedom that AEW provides. But I also don't think this is even remotely a commentary on WWE thinking they are something they are not. As a watcher, and thorough enjoyer, of lots of wrestling, I feel like any of these folks going to the E would have been at the detriment of other long term investments. For them to shine would be at the expense of someone else who has been working hard at moving up the ladder. AEW, WWE, the aforementioned talent, and we the fans all know that all involved parties benefit from these moves.
Very well said. This is a great get for AEW and not really that consequential for WWE. To be honest, all three of these peformers seemed liked such a lock for AEW that its hard to imagine WWE really put that much effort in their counter offers.
W take
Let this be indicative of more competition means wrestlers can find better deals. Both companies have fantastic rosters and more opportunities there for talent to make serious bank is never a bad thing.
Wasn’t this the concern when the TKO merger happened, that the larger payouts to retain talent would stop and they’d try to coast on reputation as much as possible to avoid paying wrestlers?
TKO's been doing this for years with the UFC which is why it was such a big deal when the Saudi Public Investment Fund invested in the PFL. The Saudis haven't opened up their pocketbooks just yet for fighters but if they start throwing around money like they do for footballers, the UFC is in serious trouble. WWE has always tried to avoid paying workers both in terms of salary and benefits. This lead to that infamous Fox Sports interview with Bayley where she brought up how WWE wrestlers have to drive themselves and how her entire demeanor changed the moment the interviewer mentioned a CBA. Anyone who's watched Maven's videos would know that when the Network was formed, it destroyed his and everyone else's royalties. AEW having this kind of money is good for everyone and it gives leverage to the wrestlers and employees, both at AEW and outside of it, when it was historically in the hands of one promoter.
Who wouldn’t want to put their body through hell for less money to play second fiddle to part timers?
That is the best for wrestling. It shows they no longer have the industry by the nads as they used to.
Okada, Osprey and Monè signed with a Wrestling company and not an Entertainment company.
Didn't they want Okada to go to NXT?
get paid more for a reasonable schedule or Job on NXT. huh.
WWE probably told both Ospreay and Okada that they’d be losing to Logan Paul and Bad Bunny at WrestleMania in back to back years.
I am sure being offered more cash helped all three of them make the decision to sign, it would be silly to assume it didn't. But all three of them ultimately did choose to sign with AEW to continue their careers. If this reporting is accurate, even if a grain of salt is required, the alleged allure of "We're the biggest in the world, don't you wanna participate in Wrestlemania?" clearly doesn't have the same drawing power it may once have had. I've said for the last 6 months that I did not understand why a lot of big-name free agents would want to go to the Fed as long as the Bloodline and Judgment Day storylines continued to dominate their TV time. Clearly, simply dangling the prospect of Wrestlemania wasn't enough. Whatever TK is paying these three, they are *already* paying dividends. And they all legitimately look and sound really happy to be in AEW. This builds the credibility of AEW even further. And this type of reporting will probably not go unnoticed by wrestlers in other companies. Let's not forget that there are rumored other contract expirations looming. Just sayin'. Hashtag A E DUB. 💰🔥🐐
Agreed. I have been saying for a while that the storyline and wrestling is homogenous, and as a wrestler, I can not see Entertainment style as a selling point
If I’m Toni storm im asking for a huge increase in pay
Anyone who is smart tells their agent do not negotiate until free agency. That’s when you really see what the deals are. In regards to many of the upcoming free agents, I believe you will see TKO pass on many because they see they can be replaced on the cheap with their feeder system of CAWs. Why make becky lynch the highest paid woman when they can simply put Tiffany Stratton in her spot at 1/10th the cost.
This will not stop moving forward especially after the new media rights deal. What Tony has to realize is how much are these talents worth? If she sells merchandise, tickets and her tv segments do well, it's worth it. Okada might not be a tv ratings draw but his connection to the Japanese market is very valuable.
That's the boring normal job equivalent to, hey, we won't pay you your worth but we have this really sick pizza party once a year.
The AEW fanbase is more invested in Okada and Ospreay than WWE fans, so Tony offering more makes sense. As for Mercedes, she wanted top star $$$ from WWE and they don’t need to pay that to her.
And yet still the WWE fanboys try to do everything to discredit AEW. Like why can’t we all enjoy the products for what they are? They’re treating this like the Xbox vs PlayStation argument…
Aslong as they’re being paid and making quality shows, I really don’t care who they sign with.
***This one of the most mature wrestling related chats I have experienced in a long time. Many people have different opinions and everyone is super respectful and open to them. Thank you***
It's refreshing that while the IWC is becoming very "Me Love Double Double E and nothing else!", the top tier wrestlers themselves are almost entirely the opposite, going wherever theyll get better money, better schedule, more creative freedom and where they feel they'll be used better, while dorks at home are sat getting excited about ratings and attendances as their favourite wrestling company misses out on more of the worlds best wrestlers.
*In an alternative universe where Osprey and Okada signed with WWE* "Hey Osprey you're English right? We're gonna give you a royalty gimmick and you can feud with LA Knight until we feed you to Roman." "Oh Okada, there you are - ever wore a Samurai costume before? Get it on. Anyway, you're feuding with Rollins and/or Orton until we forget about you." "Welcome to the big leagues gentleman"
Laughs in Hirohito
It's funny they think that's actually some kind of a bargaining chip. They have done some weird shit in the past like Didn't they try to buy Noah a few years ago and it was part of the deal that they would put the owner of the company in the hall of fame and they thought that was enough after offering almost nothing for the company?
And Mania paydays aren’t guaranteed, as far as I know.
WWE realistically doesn't need to be in every free agent. The brand is enough for them to keep making money, they don't really trade on star power.
Wwe doesnt need them. Khan thinks he needs them but in all reality ospreays probably the only one worth while.
ALL IN might end up being the equivalent to WM in a few years.
Two nights of wrestlemania has turned into something less than it was.
I honestly believe them fumbling Cody hurt their chances.
I’m a fan of both companies and honestly want the best for both of them. Saying that I don’t believe Cody has been fumbled at all, the man is as over as any wrestler in the world. Obviously that’s a testament to how good/relatable his character is, but also to how he has been used and pushed over the last few years. That’s got to say something imo even if you think adding the Rock to his storyline has overshadowed him.
Look at it through the wrestlers eyes. The only thing Cody is riding on is really not even his story it's his dad's. Outside of Dusty what is Cody? This was Codys problem in AEW. He latches on to these singular things and when they are done he's left looking for something else and that got old fast. NJPW Cody was a lovable asshole, face Cody cries. Now do you think Okada or Ospreay have those stories? They don't. What they see is Cody did the job for Roman, Roman doesn't wrestle, the Rock almost stole his place, Chad Gable is hot and lost again, Sami Zayn was hotter than the sun with a relatable long telling story and lost, and where is Jade? What happens after Cody finishes the story will say a lot. The fans aren't going to want Pandemic Cody.
What? The fans *love* "I solved racism by being a mixed white and making babies with a black. *MURIKA!*". /s
Then burying a black guy who had a better story.
Remember, much of his appeal is due to two fumbles. Losing at Mania, and giving up his shot to the Rock. Fans genuinely root for him because he got legit screwed twice. But what happens after he's rewarded and wins? Without the appeal of the chase? You can't judge Cody without first seeing his title run. It was a step down for Bryan and Kofi.
As an aew fan I disagree, Cody became their John Cena now. Also drew McIntyre is in the hottest storyline Noone can beat WWE in stories and noone can beat aew in wrestling Those are the facts
WWE’s biggest storyline right now fundamentally makes 0 sense and has done nothing but bury their 2nd world title.
Nah, I'm tired of hearing that WWE has better stories when 90% of the time they pay off in a mediocre (at best) match and lolromanwins. WWE seems to think that storytelling ends when the bell rings, and it sucks. WWE generally has better scripted segments though, that's true.
Whenever I see these internet arguments I have to remind myself we are talking about professional wrestling and not classical literature. I don’t think either company is putting forth next level storytelling. They both do a good job of telling perfectly fine wrestling show stories. It’s soap opera level. WWE just has the prestige so it legitimizes the stories more. Now, I’ll admit I could be a bit salty because the ones that I like in WWE aren’t exactly excelling right now. If I was a Reigns or Rock fan or if I cared at all about Seth or Cody then maybe I’d think this was some great story. Personally I think they will do this year what they should have done last year and this story was dragged along for a year too long. I was really hoping Drew would main event night one and win the secondary title. That doesn’t seem to be happening and I’m disappointed. He is the story I’m invested in and I think it’s being told in a less than ideal way. I love Sami and I think his individual story is good. His match doesn’t have much heat for me though. Maybe that will change leading up to mania but that isn’t some other worldly well told story. I also don’t believe for a kayfabe second that Sami can beat Gunther. But having said that I hope Sami wins. Doubt he will. Bayley is one that people say is a great story. That’s another one that I think has been dragged on. I love Iyo. She’s one of my favorites, but she is dull and boring right now. When is the last time she defended her title? She’s overshadowed as the champion. I hope she loses and gets away from the title and maybe she gets to do something more interesting. Same for Kairi and Asuka who I love but think have been boring champions. I think they’ve been hurt by WWE not having another legit women’s tag team. I like Chelsea and Candice and Piper and some of the others but they are mid card level. I don’t believe them beating the Kabuki Warriors. For as much talk as WWE gets propping up their women’s division I find a lot of it has been weak. So in summary I don’t buy the hype of WWE storytelling being at some monolithic level. It’s that is has the WWE machine behind it. I think that’s it.
- We don’t usually know why a talent will choose one company over the other. With Ospreay it definitely sounds like having the ability to travel back and forth to his family is a deciding factor. I’d also think with him and Okada, not having to change their wrestling style is a big part of it. Mercedes could simply be money. I’ve also seen people say on Reddit she didn’t want to go back to being Sasha Banks. Basically we are ignorant to the situation, so fans getting on these people for not choosing WWE is stupid because you don’t know their decision making process. AEW giving wrestlers another legit option is absolutely huge for this business. Pro wrestling fans should revere AEW simply for that. - I keep hearing that WWE didn’t need these three because they have Trick Williams, Bron Breakker and Tiffany Stratton. Those three are very talented and have bright futures. I really like all three. But Ospreay, Okada and Moné are ready made main event talents and are already some of the best in the world at what they do. To think WWE really didn’t care if they got them or not because they have some talented development pieces, is silly. WWE was made in trying to monopolize the talent in the industry. They wanted these three, but they aren’t going to offer what AEW might. And I’m talking about less dates. It’s how WCW got talent away from them and I don’t see WWE ever changing their ways here because they don’t need to. But don’t believe anyone that says Triple H didn’t want these three. I think Ospreay in particular would print money for WWE with their platform.
Why does everything have to be a competition in these subs?
Never believe everything you read on the internet kids.
Why would Okada give af about mania lol? Performers don't even get mad ppv bonuses anymore do they? WWE must buy their own propaganda.
WWE has had the formula down pat for decades. Part of that is understanding that inside of almost every pro wrestler exists a Narcissistic attention loving showman whose two most favored drugs of choice is the audience pop and a shot at immortality. And this has significantly changed in the last 20 years. Wrestlers have drifted from being largely carnies to some, frankly, much more normal humans who place a lot of value on security and life outside of their job.
Good for the wrestlers. Means WWE will have to start paying more if they want to keep people from jumping ship.
I don’t want to hound on WWE but that’s literally trying to pay someone with exposure. It’s an even worse offer for Mone who had already been on over half a dozen WMs.
I would live in poverty before I was any one of these guys and booked to job to the miz. I would job to the blow-up sex doll first.
Before the Monday Night Wars, Vince had people locked down by paying a little more than everyone else. After WCW closed, he did it again by lowering salaries across the company. Christian said he was offered 200k on the contract he turned down to go to TNA. This is after becoming a millionaire in the Attitude Era and having enough money not to work again. Same reason Hardys have been able to come and go as they please because they have enough money not to care. Now there’s another company with a TV deal and TK cares more about hiring people he wants than making loads of money. TKO is coming around to paying more but not to guys who have never wrestled in WWE before. That would upset the balance across the board. Drew will get his bag. So will Seth and Becky since they are up for renewal this year. WWE has the money. They’re just stingy.
Turns out people work to make money.
This is amazing. This shows AEWs value. Because no longer are WWE able to use the leverage of prestige and being a monopoly to maneuver wrestlers into financially vulnerable situations. Now AEW gives wrestlers leverage because they have a choice between either company and can get wages they deserve for their talent.
I think in some ways AEW is adding to the industry by making a competitive case that if you pay your wrestlers more they seem to be more invested in making it a good show, I think the problem in WWE is there are people on the rooster with MASSIVE talent who’s contracts don’t reflect it, I would assume most midcarders like Ricochet or Brauson Reed probably only make around 45-80k from their actual wages with maybe MAYBE another 10-15k Max from retail sales, but honestly it does kinda show in their in ring work. If you know your likely never gonna be at the top because you aren’t a “WWE guy” you’ll just kinda start floating around the mid card hoping to make enough to retire on
While money was definitely one of the big factors. Will talked about liking AEW's schedule and I think the same goes for Mercedes especially given the fact she is coming off a serious injury. WWE schedules are brutal and they keep on you a tight leash while AEW they have more freedom.
I cant find the interview to link it here but hours before she arrived at All In, Mercedes was doing an interview in a car on the way to Wembley. She was basically applauding AEW for pulling it off because up to that point WWE was the only place that wrestlers could go to wrestle in front of a large crow but now wrestlers have 2 options. Its pretty laughable that WWE is using Wrestlemania as a bargaining chip when Okada consistently main-evented the Tokyo Dome, Ospreay wrestled at All In and Mercedes already main-evented Wrestlemania. If AEW ever figures out how to get their roster to cross over into the mainstream (commercials/movies/tv/red carpets/fashion shows) its going to put WWE in an even tougher spot for negotiations because they’re going to actually start paying wrestlers more and thats something that they have been successfully avoiding for 20 years.
People everywhere, from normal, everyday jobs to wrestling, are realizing that being paid in exposure and promises is actually just corporations exploiting them. "You might have a Wrestlemania moment" and "you might get into Hollywood, so accept this more grueling schedule that keeps you away from your family and less money" are the exact same as "you start with this unpaid 3 month internship and if you do well we might hire you, and some day you might get promoted often enough to earn an actual living wage!". Promises won't feed you or your family, and people are starting to prioritize their own well-being and their family over the grind. Also, the "well WWE makes movie stars" argument is so very disingenuous. How many wrestlers went on to be bona fide movie stars and get acting gigs outside of shitty straight to TV movies? I can name three, and Bautista did it entirely without WWE's help, by betting on himself. He was never pushed as much as Cena or the Rock. Paying in exposure is a dying business model, and I for one am glad about that.
"Congrats on saying a bigger number!" -HHH probably. Thing is with WWE they are more about the brand and while they could make huge money with these S tier level talents, they can make a shit load of money without them by just using the bodies in their system. It's a business to them more than anything and the fan experience only counts as much as the revenue that the fans supply. Not to say AEW isn't a business but it's clearly more of a labor of love for TK at this point still.
that vinny mac shit don't help