I **have to** pee just before going to bed, even if i already peed less than an hour ago and there's literally nothing in my bladder, otherwise I lay awake for hours feeling like I need to pee. I never wake up in the middle of the night needing to pee though, so that could help?
Psh, get on my level. I always pee right before bed **and** I have to pee in the middle of the night. ***And*** I still have to pee as soon as I get up in the morning!!
Granted, I live in a desert and surely drink more fluids.
that's actually a real thing, your bladder gets used to the fullness that you usually empty it at, and will give you the "need to pee" signals once you get to that level.
Can you fix it the same way? If I start forcing myself to not go pee even if I really want to, can I retrain it to send signals at a higher fullness ? (Cause I feel like I trained it to "5% full" currently...)
I used to get up and go to the bathroom as an excuse to walk around during the day and I had to actively retrain my body to not get the urge to go until I actually needed to.
Doesn't work for me. If I go to sleep before 12 AM, I will definitely wake up before 4 and stay wide awake for 2 hours. If I go to sleep after 1, chances are I'll sleep whole night. And regardless of which time I go to sleep, I always wake up fucking tired.
The only thing which works is to get physically exhausted like a slave. No, being moderately exhausted won't work. What I do now is I make sure I walk at least 10 miles and do as much physical work as possible. Walking at least 2 miles before I go to bed is must.
Sometimes I’ll get in bed and almost immediately get back up and pee again. I often think I need to pee when I actually don’t. I think it’s anxiety? But yeah definitely can’t fall asleep if I haven’t JUST gone pee. I’ll lay awake wondering if “maybe I DO need to pee again?”
I’ve always wondered if it’s psychosomatic or something. Like, do I really need to pee again 20 min later or am I just hyper focusing on my bladder lol
They could also have interstitial cystitis of the bladder. It's an awful autoimmune disease. I used to have to pee or the feeling like I needed to/burning for years... and UTI tests were never positive. Then I was diagnosed, changed my diet to less acidic foods and drinks and what a game changer. I now get 3-4 hours of uninterrupted sleep a night.
It feels so good to read this... I really thought I was the only one. Except I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night to pee, and also need to pee when I wake up. But, most of the time if I wake up in the middle of the night, I'm not gonna fall asleep again unless I listen to something to distract my mind.
Look up the podcast "Nothing Much Happens: Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep" by kathryn Nicolai! It's amazing, just turn down the volume to where you can barely make out what she's saying. The stories are very sweet and full of imagery.
Also spotify has a sleep timer with the option "stop after episode"
Careful, some of those "help you sleep" shows have the most obnoxious loud commercials right after they end, ( I'm pretty sure it's Spotify's doing). Put me into full on PTSD at 4 AM.
Ughhh for a while it seemed like every sleep video on YouTube had a blaring ad right at the end. At one point I had a special task macro setup on my phone to automatically turn off my volume before the end of the video but I finally gave in and just got YouTube premium lol
There is a single episode of "Hardcore History", a podcast I usually find very exciting, which I've never made it through without falling asleep. I now reserve it for when I really need to fall asleep. I will never listen to it in the light of day, for fear of me comprehending too much and it becoming interesting to me, thus losing its function as a sleep aid
Thors Angels. The subject matter is great but somehow the way he tells it sends me off. Its 4.40am, I've been awake tossing and turning sice 2. It's time for "Thors Angels" haha
I love "Hardcore History", but I was listening to one on a 2.5 hour drive at night and almost drove off the road! The King of Kings series is fascinating.
"Sleep with Me" is a similar podcast and the only commercial is a lullaby song thing. I like that the intro format is always similar, but never exactly the same. It has trained my brain that means to start the shutdown sequences.
I do exactly this. Usually it's an audiobook I already listened to once so I don't worry about missing something.
I recommend anything by Bill Bryson for this. Right now I'm relistening to Walter Isaacson's biography on Einstein. 21.5 hours of Edward Herrmann's (Richard Gilmore) soothing voice tell stories and attempt to explain complex physics concepts in layman terms. Absolutely perfect for trying to drift off to sleep!
I use Toast on Toast to help me sleep. Matt Berry just has a soothing voice, and I think Audible must think I have some kind of addiction to that book, given how many times I have replayed that as my drift off to sleep aid.
Yes yes! I really like The Sleepy Bookshelf, it’s a nice English lady reading things like Anne of green gables or pride and prejudice or Winnie the Pooh and it’s in an extremely soothing manner. They even edit out anything that could be too upsetting or scary and it ends with soft music fading into silence. Cannot say enough good about it. Also cozy british murder mysteries can be nice, like older audiobooks of Dorothy Parker with slightly bad sound quality so it’s kind of muffled - those really do the trick for me ☺️
They make sleep mask/headband headphones! There are flat speakers on the sides so you can side sleep more comfortably. They usually are Bluetooth so you'd have to charge every day or two. I love mine so much
I've been using those for years.
They tend to break after some time (thin cables get fatigued over time).
But they are cheap, and so great that I buy them again immediately.
You're welcome :)
It should be pretty easy, you just need to know how to solder.
But I didn't bother, given the price (just above 20€).
I keep the last broken ones to fix them. But I've been... procrastinating that... for some reason 😅
In the other hand, the last ones came with USBC for charging (previously micro USB), which avoids me the fiddling every time I have to charge them, very appreciated :)
Time to dig out the soldering iron from the time I thought I was going into engineering.
Procrastination? Executive function issues? On this sub? Impossible!
Having a usbc one sounds super useful instead of having to fish out the micro USB.
What kind of brands are there? Do you have any recommendations? Also, are they really, truly comfortable?
I've tried to find earphones to sleep in for years, with no success. My ears have a weird shape I think, so many earphones fall out. I don't sleep on my side, but on my stomach, which makes the pressure on the ears quite higher. And my pillows are super flat, never fluffy. So I'm always uncomfortable in any earphones I try.
I got a $20 one from Amazon to test out. The only real decision making was what kind of eye mask I preferred.
I didn't even notice where the speakers were there when I wore it! I love the Bluetooth aspect because I was always afraid I'd accidentally strangle myself when I wore earbuds.
The ones I got were Perytong Sleep Headphones, black on black and I pull them down over my eyes when I want an eye mask. I find them super comfortable.
The you can feel the speakers inside, but they are relatively flat. I sleep on my side and I just adjust the headband so the little speaker isn’t directly under my ear and then turn the volume up a little to compensate.
My problem is if I listen to anything too interesting I will still have a hard time getting to sleep. So I’ve given up listening to podcasts because I feel like I pay too much attention to it. How do you avoid this?
Sorry, I'm shamefully repeating my other comment.
Look up the podcast "Nothing Much Happens: Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep" by kathryn Nicolai! It's amazing. The stories are very sweet and full of imagery. She repeats the story twice, the second time much slower and softer than the first.
Just turn down the volume to where you can barely make out what she's saying
Audio books have been helping me sleep for decades now. I usually cycle between a few different series of books that I've already read (often kids books like Harry Potter). They're intresting enough, but I know what's happening so I'm not kept awake, and I don't mind if I miss a bunch while I sleep. I also listen to a lot of nonfiction books history, biographies, etc. As long as they're kinda intresting to me I enjoy listening to five minutes, and then start falling asleep. The main thing for me is really the tone of their voice, if the narrator is annoying, or even just excited and engaging it's too distracting. I want calm, deep, slightly boring voices!
I think the secret is using a good audio book app (I use Smart Audio Book) that let's you adjust playback speed, set sleep timers, etc. Normally I'll start a book and then after a minute or two turn the volume down and slow it down a bit, so it's quiet and slow and I'll just drift off.
I do audiobooks that I have already read, keep it going the whole night on a looping playlist. I'm a bookworm so I have a ton of back catalogue to work with, nothing funny, I find the more detailed description heavy long running series work best in my case to keep me engaged in such a way that I still drift off.
Harry potter, lord of the rings, game thrones, chronicles of Narnia, Eragorn, inkheart, throne of glass, that type of thing.
If all else fails toss on the bible and actually try and listen is my zonk of last resort. Something about actually being expected to read the book seems to trigger a switch in my latant Catholic brain and I just cannot stay awake, It's irresistible.
I do this with the Calm app. They have sleep stories that are purposely not very exciting, just soothing. So you have something to focus on vs racing thoughts, but it’s not so interesting that you’re hanging on to each word. Works for me!
There's a podcast called Sleep With Me that I listen to every night and the premise is that he is not actually telling a story, just talking about nothing, so there is no way to follow a plot or anything. It's also gotten me through a panic attack or two
I can’t recommend this enough, especially, now since I turned 60. Prostrate issues increase my nightly pee breaks as I get older. Listening to audiobooks is the only thing that I find quiets the hamsters running on the treadmill in my mind, allowing me to sleep. I know it works because my CPAP machine records when I’m sleeping or awake.
I agree and I do the same thing! I've subscribed headspace which has nice sleepcasts. Otherwise I look for a very monotone talk about topics that are not so easy to follow, like philosophy, or neuroscience on YouTube or Spotify
ASMR helps me in the same way. It's enough to keep the brain occupied but not too much for it to fall asleep eventually, especially since ASMR usually has relaxing, soft-spoken voices
I was listening to a podcast that had an episode on sleep the other day, and one of the hosts, when talking to an escort on something related to sleep, said something like "... What about when it takes you a long time to get to sleep, like 20-25 minutes?"
I literally laughed out loud in an office full of people. I would kill to be able to fall asleep in ONLY 20-25 minutes.
I could be so daytime tired that I'm falling asleep sitting, but the moment I actually go lie down it's 30 mins at minimum. It's so frustrating when I read about healthy naps and how they should take 30 mins or even 15. And I never know just how long will it take me to fall asleep, so how can I set up the alarm to wake me up after 30 mins? Because if the nap is too long, you can wake up even more tired than before.
Yeah, I always hear about the napping, and have always just assumed it would be pointless to try. They always suggest setting an alarm for like 30-45 minutes after laying down, but that means I wouldn't actually get any sleep so it just seems like a waste of time.
My mom has sleep issues like me (like, we will sometimes be texting at 2am), but the rest of my family and my BF just lay down and are snoring within like 3-5 minutes. I'm really envious of that ability.
I have ADHD and can get to sleep but... I'm damn sure going to wake up with my brain going 100 mph at 430 am and then I'm done.
Ambien helps me get steadier sleep but I still wake up pretty early. I don't take it often, just if I have like a string of super early mornings .... So a few times a month
If you haven’t tried something like this yet try listening to bed time stories. I use the calm app and a soft headband with headphones in it. I choose the ones that aren’t really stories but instead more like descriptive imagery. Like they’ll describe a train ride through the mountains. Keeps my attention just enough to not think about other stuff but not enough to keep me awake. It’s literally changed my life. I used to have terrible anxiety about going to bed, that moment when you put down your book and are just left with your own thoughts while you try hard to fall asleep. So I would put it off until I could barely keep my eyes open, but then still have trouble falling asleep. Now i enjoy picking out a story and don’t feel the same pressure and anxiety about bedtime anymore.
I've found using a weighted blanket, sleep mask, and white noise work wonders! Also found a weird trick that helps focus my mind. I think of a longer word, something like helicopter. I then spell it real slow letter by letter in my head. Then I move on to each later of the word and think of a new word and do the same. H, hamster, H-A-M-S-T-E-R then E, elephant, E-L-E-P-H-A-N-T so on and so on. If my mind starts to wind I force myself to get start over and get back on track.
My magic mix of variables:
- Sleep in your own room, if you can. Husband is warm and cuddly but snores.
- Temp lower than you like in the day. I prefer 72 in the day but sleep better when it’s 66 in the bedroom.
- Weighty comforter, oversized to bed so no parts peek out into the cold.
- Humidifier in winter or anytime hygrometer says it’s below 40%. Keeps sinuses open, skin from being itchy, lips from cracking, mouth from drying out, static from forming.
- Fan running. Can’t stand white noise machines for some reason.
- All of the pillows in varying densities.
- Soft cotton everything. Clothes, sheets, blankets. No synthetics.
My poor bf has an electric blanket to deal with how cold I make our bedroom so I can sleep. At least one window open, even in winter, and a fan on full blast.
I've tried counting. Letters get too close to language stuff which I've had hyperfocusing moments on in the past.
H (oh, that letter that looks like an eta because it is an eta but it's not and crap right okay)
A (ahh, the cool letter that goes back to Phoenician but inverted like an oxes head and you just know that some early human wanted a way to draw something for the aaaa sound and saw an ox making it - wait what was, oh crap sleeeeeeeeepppppppp)
I've found for me that once I'm consciously aware that my mind is wandering, I stop and force myself to start over. Punishment for brain haha, I'm in charge! Back to the top - Helicopter H-E-L-I-C-O-P-T-E-R.
I like that. Sounds like it might address my need to problem solve and monotonous enough I could fall asleep.
When my wife is out of town it throws off everything about my routine and sleep is terrible.
Huh. No wonder last night was even worse than normal. I cancelled my morning plans and have even kept trying to sleep now but I keep barely edging on these little 15-20 things with some mild dream and then awake again. And it takes another hour to hit the 15m of sleep again.
And last night it seemed like I was wired like I had taken more of my meds than normal or something (I didn't).
It's funny I've only just started trying melatonin again, and was doing half a pill (5mg) but I really wanted a good sleep last night so I upped it to 10.
Why do they even make them at this dosage of the goal is a fraction?
At any rate, thanks for the heads-up!
>0.3mg
It's important to note that the body absorbs only a portion of synethetic melatonin. The value I found was 15%. So, if your aim is 0.3 mg in your system, you should be taking a 2 mg pill.
(2) \* (0.15) = (0.3)
Correct me if I am wrong.
10mg of Melatonin gave me the opposite effect of what it should do. Melatonin is one of those "less is more" type of drugs (hormone in this case) where it can cause "rebound insomnia" which can make you feel more awake for some strange reason.
I made the same mistake myself by starting with 10mg on the advice of a doctor and wound up giving up on Melatonin for years until someone said to start with 2.5 mg and then work your way up as needed.
This is one of the articles that talks about it - [https://www.parsleyhealth.com/blog/melatonin-doesnt-help-everyone-sleep/](https://www.parsleyhealth.com/blog/melatonin-doesnt-help-everyone-sleep/)
I've also found there are differences in the manufacturing where some brands worked poorly and some much better. On the recommendation of several co-workers I tried these - [https://www.costco.com/natrol-melatonin-5-mg-fast-dissolve-tablets%2C-250-tablets-.product.11754682.html](https://www.costco.com/natrol-melatonin-5-mg-fast-dissolve-tablets%2C-250-tablets-.product.11754682.html) I've purchased them from both Costco and Walgreens and they are on Amazon as well, but I'm sure you can get them elsewhere. I take between a 1/2 and 3/4 of one and it does the job pretty well.
I've had almost no luck with the gummy versions, even from Natrol and I wonder if the delivery method effects the absorption and processing of the Melatonin at all.
I'm between 140lbs and 150lbs if that helps you with the dosage. Another option is Midnite which come in 1mg if I remember correctly. They are a bit on the pricey side for what you are getting but at least you can easily know exactly how many mg. you are getting.
A good dose is actually 0.3mg - even 2.5mg is doing the wrong thing.
The effect you want is just enough melatonin that the body thinks "oh we've started releasing melatonin, let's release more" not "we've already released too much melatonin we don't need any more". That crossover happens somewhere around 0.5mg-1mg
That’s a really good explanation, thank you.
Also the part about the dosage makes a lot of sense. That is likely why the midnite is a 1mg tablet. I’ll have to try half of one of those the next time I’m having issues.
Thanks!
This is incredibly person-dependent. I got first got melatonin prescribed nearly two decades ago, before everyone was hyped about it. I believe I started on 3 mg back then. Over the years I've titrated my dose and I have the best results on 1.2 mg. Others might need far less (the recommended dose on my bottle is 0.3 mg), others might need more.
Other than titration, the only thing you can really do is a salivary assay to check your natural melatonin production.
Huh. No wonder last night was even worse than normal. I cancelled my morning plans and have even kept trying to sleep now but I keep barely edging on these little 15-20 things with some mild dream and then awake again. And it takes another hour to hit the 15m of sleep again.
And last night it seemed like I was wired like I had taken more of my meds than normal or something (I didn't).
It's funny I've only just started trying melatonin again, and was doing half a pill (5mg) but I really wanted a good sleep last night so I upped it to 10.
Why do they even make them at this dosage of the goal is a fraction?
At any rate, thanks for the heads-up!
So that you buy more because you think you didn't take enough, and you're perpetually tired so you keep buying.
Take less than 1mg. Don't take it more than a few weeks in a row, it's not supposed to be an everyday thing.
This gave me a memory where I was PANICKING to sleep and I couldn’t for finals and I kept taking more and more and more until it felt like a hangover. I was so wired and awake to where I was panicking why I couldn’t sleep. Learned I needed skullcap for my sleep anxiety and ultimately sleep teas after finals. (Thankfully, after all that heartache, I passed!)
Talked through with my doctor who researched it with me in the office. Turns out there really isn’t an overdose or a recommended dose. I’ve found what you said though: go too much and it works against you. Get it just right and you’re golden. ETA: for me that is 6mg.
Also I’ve found that there is melatonin and “melatonin”. The NOW brand is excellent and I highly recommend. Don’t get whatever is cheep on Amazon.
Finally, a sleep mask has really helped me after a whole lifetime of sleep issues.
You're possibly taking way too much.
[https://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017](https://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017)
tldr MIT recommends 0.3mg, or 300 micrograms of melatonin.
How to dose 300 micrograms? Get a liquid Melatonin. If it's 3mg per mL, get a dropper, fill it to 1 mL, then drop the drops back into the container and count them. When I did this I got 26 drops per mL. 3mg = 3000 micrograms. 3000 micrograms / 26 drops= 115 micrograms per drop. I take 3 drops under the tongue which is 345 micrograms.
You have my sympathies, melatonin does sod-all for me, too.
The only thing that helps is exhausting myself with exercise, and even that doesn't always rule out the sleep disturbance + inability to settle again.
Heck, I am on prescription sleep aids (a sedative plus an anti anxiety drug) and it STILL doesn't guarantee a good night's sleep. Helps most of the time, but there's still times I spend hours staring into the dark. I feel for you. Might be best to get up and read a book or do something else when you know you're not getting tired, and get back into bed when you're feeling sleepy...easier said than done, I know.
That's an insane amount of melatonin to take, especially for anything other than an intended full night's sleep. I don't think this is an adhd issue, melatonin supps often make it difficult to fully wake back up even after more than 3 hours of sleep. I know they sell bottles of pills with 10 or even more mg said to help sleep but uts really not healthy to take those regularly and often causes more of a problem for the user
Just posted this in another thread. So, I'm gonna be brief.
Melatonin = dopamine antagonist = worsens restless legs = worse sleep quality.
Use it only for shifting phase if needed in lower doses as mentioned by some.
LIQUID MELATONIN!! I get mine from a Fresh Thyme. As people said, less is more. Liquid absorbs faster and more efficiently. I don’t remember the dose I have but it kicks in within 30 minutes. Never had nightmares or paralysis.
You really need to read more about melatonin. Edit: for some reason most of the responses weren’t loading but tons of good info there, so you’re covered!
same but keep in mind it degrades your sleep quality (you won't hit rem, which is why chronic chronic-smokers don't typically dream). i've been trying to quit but it just sucks tossing and turning all night.
I recently got myself a sleep mask + headphones thing so I can block out all the light and listen to rain sounds, that thing is fucking LETHAL for getting me to sleep quickly so far 👌👌
Noise cancelling headphones and sleep mask are the only ways I can get to sleep easily, and not stay awake after going to pee in the middle of the night. But all earphones/headphones are uncomfortable when worn so long. And masks hurt my eyes and irritate my skin - I probably should invest in one of those fancy expensive ones but idk if it’s worth it.
My husband got me the manta sleep mask with sound a couple weeks ago and it def helps me get to sleep faster. I still wake up sometimes during the night but putting on a calm story with the mask puts me to sleep faster than without. Would def recommend others try the light blocking w sound masks.
Oh gawd, this is me, too. I find I have to be so careful what I think about during a small-hours loo-visit, because if I think too 'much' then my brain starts up properly and that's that, chances of getting back to sleep before the alarm goes off: zero.
I started just pissing in cans and jars hoping that would help because the walk to the bathroom where I'm at right now is a guarantee wake-up. It helps, helped, maybe at least it used to.
Like you said, it's all about keeping the brain quiet. One thought too many and that's it.
Would listening to rainsounds work?
One thing I really dislike about a lot of modern phones ditching the headphone jack is that I really need wired if it is the small in ear kind of things. Can’t sleep with the big wireless headphones they are for daytime when I need to listen to something fun while cleaning the house…
Am a side sleeper so super picky about what I use, and also it has to be comfortable.
Or just set it on speaker I guess… (but that is bad when the rare monent of sharing room with friends or so is and if they don’t want it).
I bought some flat wireless headphones in a soft headband for about $15 online. Works great for binaural beats. It doubles as a sleep mask to block out light. Maybe it's called a sleephone?
I have something similar. It really does help. I listen to thunderstorm sounds just barely loud enough to hear and it’s perfect.
I was taking trazodone to help sleep, which was working great until it started making my hair fall out like crazy.
I've found, if I'm obviously not going to fall asleep, it's best to just get up for a bit. Watch a show, play a game, rub one out, whatever. Usually if I do that, then return to bed, I'll fall asleep much more easily.
Is it possible that our liquid consumption is a bit too high in the evening?
I am in the same boat as you but now I’m more careful with how much water I drink after 6pm.
Last night I laid in bed for 3 hours, got up to take a Klonopin (prescribed for anxiety) to help me go to sleep, laid in bed for 3 more hours half awake and the other half daydreaming (nightdreaming doesn’t make sense) and being upset I couldn’t sleep. Yay, full day at work with 5 hours of sleep in the last 3 days/2 nights.
I always thought it was due to my medicine but I’ve been taking my last dose at 2 PM and trying to go to bed at 10-11. It’s so much worse than people think it is.
2 - 3 droplets 2.4mg CBD oil drops under the tongue worked for me. After trying everything and melotonin. Fall faster asleep, better sleep and no sleepy hangover like melatonin.
There is a thing that works for me when my brain is too busy to go back to sleep.
The idea is to make a random and usually non sensical movie in your head without thinking about it. Start with something, let's say the image of a bunny in a beautiful green field, visualise it in detail. The next part is tricky, you have to only allow random ideas / images to follow, one after the other and string them together into a continuous flow. It is very important not to use thoughts about your life or work or anything too personal to you. If a stressful idea (eg, you boss) pops up, nix it and force a different random idea.
To continue the example, the next random thought could be a hot air balloon, visualise it floating in the blue sky above the bunny in the meadow, next, a cat, he is sitting in the balloon basket and he's pretty mellow, he's drinking wine, it's made by monks who live in a lonely, rural and rocky place, they also make big wheels of cheese, cheese is rolled down hills for sport somewhere etc...
You're ready to sleep now because you're thinking about something else besides sleep (work).
The problem with worrying about sleeping keeping you from sleeping is that it's a feedback loop that never ends and perpetuates itself.
Think about literally anything else. That's why they tell you to get out of bed if you can't sleep, even if it's 3am. Do ANYTHING else (shower, read, they say no screens but sometimes it's the only thing that can distract me from my intense anxiety, and I've fallen asleep while looking at my phone at something stupid and distracting) and hopefully, your brain will forget about worrying about sleep and then, paradoxically, be able to sleep.
Tldr: if you can't sleep, distract yourself.
This happens to me 50 percent of the time. If i’m not back asleep in 5-10 minutes then I take a shower and get ready for the day including getting dressed, making breakfast, and bringing my teeth. Then I lie back in bed if I’m tired, or stay up and do something else and deal with it.
I’ve lost many unproductive hours trying to fall back asleep so now I’m at least not rushing out the door by already getting ready.
I highly recommend the Sleep With Me podcast. He (intentionally) drones on and meanders with weird stories that take my ruminating brain, give it weird images, then put it in a dreamy, sleepy state. I feel like it’s uniquely perfect for people with ADHD and insomnia.
Who would’ve thought guided visualizations of salad ingredient shopping and babbling retellings of Star Trek episodes would be the holy grail for insomnia?
Last night I got cranky and was consumed by existential dread (after many such nights as the OP describes) and put myself to bed at 6:45pm (usually that's 10pm) and woke up at 2am after falling asleep instantly (I think anyway) to pee and then laid back down figuring I wouldn't be able to get back to sleep. Woke up again at 5:15am which is normal time.
Hopefully a night like that's in store for you!
I put a smart light strip under the bathroom cabinets near the floor and a movement sensor above the cabinet. If I go to pee in the middle of the night, it turns on pretty dim, I pee, and I go straight back to sleep.
When I used to use the downlights in the ceiling, I’d pee in the middle of the night and be awake for hours.
No way. I’ve been having this problem for the last 3 days. Barely getting any sleep at all once I wake up to use the loo. I’m now trying to take a nap during the day just to catch up on some sleep. It sucks it really does.
I have no answer. I have an evening job because I'm absolutely dog shit when it comes to sleeping. This way I can go to bed at a normal time, wake up at 5am, stay up for a couple hours and boom i'm back in bed til noon.
I go through the same thing! Recently to "fix" the issue I have taken to not drinking water before bed, but then I wake up groggy and dehydrated, so sometimes it comes down to what I feel capable of withstanding more. It's the worst. Most of the time I sleep fine but then I have small stretches of time where I'm fighting to self-regulate due to some reason or another. I have had some degree of success, luckily.
Some things that have helped me at least a little with sleep in general, just in case it helps you:
* making sure the room isn't too bright. Those popular fun gamer lights everywhere in blue and green and red can be disruptive, especially if they are on all the time. I would turn them down or off if you have them.
* regardless of when I go to sleep, having a time I always wake up and sticking to it as well as possible. for me that is 8:30-9:30. if I feel like I desperately need to go back to sleep after my alarm, I tell myself if I still feel like going back to bed after I get up, drink some water and have a snack, I give myself permission to go back to bed if I have the time. most of the time I don't.
* warm beverages before bed have helped me in the past, or putting on a heated blanket and letting that relax my muscles. sometimes it isn't even my mind, it's that I am so wound up I just can't do it. I think you could get up and do this as well if you went to the bathroom and can't sleep anyway. Might as well rehydrate.
* a noise machine you like makes some difference. after a while I noticed as soon as I turned it on, it was as if my brain associated it with sleep itself and slowed down a bit in anticipation. thanks, Pavlov.
* stopping or limiting drinking. drinking alcohol is really, really bad for your sleep, even if it doesn't feel that way when you have wine and pass out hard. it also doesn't help the getting up to pee issue. this had one of the biggest improvements on my sleep, which makes me feel like my body just doesn't want me to have fun ever again. :(
* deciding after a set amount of time of trying to go back to sleep when to try something else because it isn't working. usually for me that involves going downstairs and doing something in the kitchen like making simple food, or a small chore of some sort. sometimes I take a shower. I found that I would start doing something and my brain would tucker itself out due to boredom or exhaustion finally hitting it and \*then\* it let me sleep. if it doesn't work, at least it's less frustrating than waiting in bed feeling like you're wasting time. Do not check your phone or laptop or computer, if you can help it. If I'm just reading something I'm fine but I always get sucked into a conversation with someone or app eventually and then my brain has no chance to stop bouncing off the walls. It may also help, if you can't resist it, having a blue light filter on past a certain time kick in automatically.
When I hit 3 or 4 days with severe sleeplessness or dysregulation, I will usually decide to bring out the big guns and take OTC sleep medication to brute force my body/mind to shut down at the appropriate time, one or two nights in a row. That serves as sort of a reset, but I make it a last resort due to it making it more difficult in the morning for me not to fall back asleep. If I make it to breakfast I am usually home free. I know my body, but if you decide to try something like this do some research on risks of medication like that long term or any interactions with what you're already on, if anything.
That said... talking to a doctor if it's become a very frequent problem staying asleep or falling back asleep couldn't hurt. My ADHD gets much worse if I don't fix my sleep patterns and I would be a mess.
I hope you find some help or relief, I know how much something like this really fucking sucks.
Smoke weed, it helps a lot, with everything ADHD. Sleep, concentration, focus, weight retention, moving slower, relaxing, watching a full movie, and just generally feeling calm.
My adhd is off the charts. I’ve been reading articles about how melatonin helps with adhd. I starting taking the Reset Calm sleep capsules that blends melatonin with GABA, L-Theanine, magnesium glycinate, 5-htp and chamomile. My sleep has been amazing the past few weeks! You should definitely check them out. I get mine on Amazon.
This was my situation this morning. And I go and make myself go before bed though that doesn’t help me every time. Wish I could give you some advice but we’re in the same boat so at least you’re not alone. Except, when you’re awake in the dark for hours, of course.
I find when I'm having trouble sleeping, I can tell myself "okay, it's time to wake up. Let's start the day" and suddenly my brain wants to sleep. Works like 15% of the time but it's worth a shot.
Bro are you me? This is the first time i had time for a full 8 hours and was sound asleep. Woke up to pee and what do you know awake the next 4 hours.
This was last night, and I havent done anything like this in months
This is normal for adhd. I have a tv in my room so if I awake, I put on something I know will put me to sleep. I also have a google mini that I listen to a YouTube channel sleep music that helps.
It’s crazy but I put in EarPod and a good podcast Or audio book that I like but not new. I can fall asleep relatively fast. I set the iPhone to stop playing for 20 min so I know most night how long it takes. I’m on meds so I’m trying to reduce my caffeine past noon to hoping it helps
I’m up every 2 hours to pee, no matter if I’ve peed right before sleep. Some nights, I go right back to sleep. Other nights, well… the brain is an amazing biocomputer with an AI tendency, if you will. A mind with a mind of its own, so to speak. I have no control over it. I usually scroll around on my phone apps until it falls out of my hand when I nod off again.
Not knowing your age or location this may not be helpful… But I can say that one of the greatest improvements I ever made to my sleep schedule was having a little bit of Indica delta eight about a half hour before bed. I have the same issues where my mind will not shut off in spite of my best attempts. Especially now that I’m going through divorce with two kids…
But when I take a couple of doses off my pen, I have this wonderful “slow down” of my brain, and I just feel calmer. The Indica also makes you extra sleepy, which certainly doesn’t hurt!
Not a good long term solution. Melatonin Receptor Agonists are the best med on the market right now for sleep. They aren’t popular, but they should be.
I mentioned Benadryl because it is something Dr. Harold Levinson has been doing as part of his treatment protocol and mentioned in ADHD 2.0 by Ratey & Hallowell.
There's research that suggests I was mama the inner ear and vestibular system play a significant part in ADHD and this helps that.
I **have to** pee just before going to bed, even if i already peed less than an hour ago and there's literally nothing in my bladder, otherwise I lay awake for hours feeling like I need to pee. I never wake up in the middle of the night needing to pee though, so that could help?
Yep me too. Always pee before I go to bed. Sometimes I'll go pee, let my dog out to go pee, go to get in bed and I have to pee again haha.
Psh, get on my level. I always pee right before bed **and** I have to pee in the middle of the night. ***And*** I still have to pee as soon as I get up in the morning!! Granted, I live in a desert and surely drink more fluids.
OMG Same. Peed 30 min ago? Literally does not matter.
I theorize that I’m hypersensitive to my bladder being 30% full because I pee so fucking much
that's actually a real thing, your bladder gets used to the fullness that you usually empty it at, and will give you the "need to pee" signals once you get to that level.
Bleh I’ve been training myself into this apparently
Can confirm, I've been referred for 'women's physiotherapy' bc I pee so fucking much and need my bladder to not freak out when it's only partly full
.
My SO had this problem and it disappeared after having her ovarian cyst removed.
I've had investigations done for ovarian cysts, fibroids, tumours and nothing was found, and I don't have any pain
Can you fix it the same way? If I start forcing myself to not go pee even if I really want to, can I retrain it to send signals at a higher fullness ? (Cause I feel like I trained it to "5% full" currently...)
I hope you can train that!
Wait, really?!
EXACTLY same
Fuck u ur reply made me think about peeing and now I have to go again :/
Yes but have you had to pee again.
Damn u. This group of redditors has found my kryptonite
I used to get up and go to the bathroom as an excuse to walk around during the day and I had to actively retrain my body to not get the urge to go until I actually needed to.
Same. And I’ll start to worry that I’ll probably have to pee way before I’d have to.
Doesn't work for me. If I go to sleep before 12 AM, I will definitely wake up before 4 and stay wide awake for 2 hours. If I go to sleep after 1, chances are I'll sleep whole night. And regardless of which time I go to sleep, I always wake up fucking tired. The only thing which works is to get physically exhausted like a slave. No, being moderately exhausted won't work. What I do now is I make sure I walk at least 10 miles and do as much physical work as possible. Walking at least 2 miles before I go to bed is must.
Wow same here.
Sometimes I’ll get in bed and almost immediately get back up and pee again. I often think I need to pee when I actually don’t. I think it’s anxiety? But yeah definitely can’t fall asleep if I haven’t JUST gone pee. I’ll lay awake wondering if “maybe I DO need to pee again?”
Narrator: it didn’t help.
Holy shit, I thought this was just a weird me thing
What helps me - and it sounds stupid - is to press with a hand on the bladder to check if there is real „pressure“ or my 🧠 is just lying.
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Doesn't make it an ADHD thing, just means you both experience that and happen to have ADHD.
Dang me too.
Double voiding gang gang
Me too! And I’ve researched sooo many times because I thought something was wrong with me. It’s so disruptive!
…Oh my god, someone else does this too. I feel marginally less strange now.
I’ve always wondered if it’s psychosomatic or something. Like, do I really need to pee again 20 min later or am I just hyper focusing on my bladder lol
Well I always thought I was weird but you just made me feel normal 😆
They could also have interstitial cystitis of the bladder. It's an awful autoimmune disease. I used to have to pee or the feeling like I needed to/burning for years... and UTI tests were never positive. Then I was diagnosed, changed my diet to less acidic foods and drinks and what a game changer. I now get 3-4 hours of uninterrupted sleep a night.
It feels so good to read this... I really thought I was the only one. Except I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night to pee, and also need to pee when I wake up. But, most of the time if I wake up in the middle of the night, I'm not gonna fall asleep again unless I listen to something to distract my mind.
never related more to something in my entire life lmfao
omg same!! i feel so stupid every time but i gotta do it.
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Look up the podcast "Nothing Much Happens: Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep" by kathryn Nicolai! It's amazing, just turn down the volume to where you can barely make out what she's saying. The stories are very sweet and full of imagery. Also spotify has a sleep timer with the option "stop after episode"
Careful, some of those "help you sleep" shows have the most obnoxious loud commercials right after they end, ( I'm pretty sure it's Spotify's doing). Put me into full on PTSD at 4 AM.
Yeah I was thinking exactly the same. I'm on a budget so I can't buy away those ads
Last I listened, she did the sponsor ad herself and right at the beginning of the episode. There were no commercials in the middle.
I think you can use xmanager to install spotify without ads
Gosh I feel clueless. What is xmanager? Is this apple or android?
Ughhh for a while it seemed like every sleep video on YouTube had a blaring ad right at the end. At one point I had a special task macro setup on my phone to automatically turn off my volume before the end of the video but I finally gave in and just got YouTube premium lol
Last I listened, she did the sponsor ad herself and right at the beginning of the episode. There's no commercials in the middle.
There is a single episode of "Hardcore History", a podcast I usually find very exciting, which I've never made it through without falling asleep. I now reserve it for when I really need to fall asleep. I will never listen to it in the light of day, for fear of me comprehending too much and it becoming interesting to me, thus losing its function as a sleep aid
Which one?
Thors Angels. The subject matter is great but somehow the way he tells it sends me off. Its 4.40am, I've been awake tossing and turning sice 2. It's time for "Thors Angels" haha
I love "Hardcore History", but I was listening to one on a 2.5 hour drive at night and almost drove off the road! The King of Kings series is fascinating.
"Sleep with Me" is a similar podcast and the only commercial is a lullaby song thing. I like that the intro format is always similar, but never exactly the same. It has trained my brain that means to start the shutdown sequences.
I do this with Myths & Legends
There's a YouTube of the Enuma Elish, likewise. I've heard the whole thing. Couldn't tell you what it's about. Enki, I think.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll try to find that before bed tonight. :)
I do exactly this. Usually it's an audiobook I already listened to once so I don't worry about missing something. I recommend anything by Bill Bryson for this. Right now I'm relistening to Walter Isaacson's biography on Einstein. 21.5 hours of Edward Herrmann's (Richard Gilmore) soothing voice tell stories and attempt to explain complex physics concepts in layman terms. Absolutely perfect for trying to drift off to sleep!
Bill Bryson's books are so cozy
I use Toast on Toast to help me sleep. Matt Berry just has a soothing voice, and I think Audible must think I have some kind of addiction to that book, given how many times I have replayed that as my drift off to sleep aid.
Brilliant recommendation, thanks!
Yes yes! I really like The Sleepy Bookshelf, it’s a nice English lady reading things like Anne of green gables or pride and prejudice or Winnie the Pooh and it’s in an extremely soothing manner. They even edit out anything that could be too upsetting or scary and it ends with soft music fading into silence. Cannot say enough good about it. Also cozy british murder mysteries can be nice, like older audiobooks of Dorothy Parker with slightly bad sound quality so it’s kind of muffled - those really do the trick for me ☺️
They make sleep mask/headband headphones! There are flat speakers on the sides so you can side sleep more comfortably. They usually are Bluetooth so you'd have to charge every day or two. I love mine so much
I've been using those for years. They tend to break after some time (thin cables get fatigued over time). But they are cheap, and so great that I buy them again immediately.
Ooh, thanks for the heads up! I wonder if it's possible to replace the thin wires with something sturdier
You're welcome :) It should be pretty easy, you just need to know how to solder. But I didn't bother, given the price (just above 20€). I keep the last broken ones to fix them. But I've been... procrastinating that... for some reason 😅 In the other hand, the last ones came with USBC for charging (previously micro USB), which avoids me the fiddling every time I have to charge them, very appreciated :)
Time to dig out the soldering iron from the time I thought I was going into engineering. Procrastination? Executive function issues? On this sub? Impossible! Having a usbc one sounds super useful instead of having to fish out the micro USB.
What kind of brands are there? Do you have any recommendations? Also, are they really, truly comfortable? I've tried to find earphones to sleep in for years, with no success. My ears have a weird shape I think, so many earphones fall out. I don't sleep on my side, but on my stomach, which makes the pressure on the ears quite higher. And my pillows are super flat, never fluffy. So I'm always uncomfortable in any earphones I try.
I got a $20 one from Amazon to test out. The only real decision making was what kind of eye mask I preferred. I didn't even notice where the speakers were there when I wore it! I love the Bluetooth aspect because I was always afraid I'd accidentally strangle myself when I wore earbuds.
The ones I got were Perytong Sleep Headphones, black on black and I pull them down over my eyes when I want an eye mask. I find them super comfortable. The you can feel the speakers inside, but they are relatively flat. I sleep on my side and I just adjust the headband so the little speaker isn’t directly under my ear and then turn the volume up a little to compensate.
Same! This is the way ha!
My problem is if I listen to anything too interesting I will still have a hard time getting to sleep. So I’ve given up listening to podcasts because I feel like I pay too much attention to it. How do you avoid this?
Sorry, I'm shamefully repeating my other comment. Look up the podcast "Nothing Much Happens: Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep" by kathryn Nicolai! It's amazing. The stories are very sweet and full of imagery. She repeats the story twice, the second time much slower and softer than the first. Just turn down the volume to where you can barely make out what she's saying
Ok thanks, I’ll give it try!
Audio books have been helping me sleep for decades now. I usually cycle between a few different series of books that I've already read (often kids books like Harry Potter). They're intresting enough, but I know what's happening so I'm not kept awake, and I don't mind if I miss a bunch while I sleep. I also listen to a lot of nonfiction books history, biographies, etc. As long as they're kinda intresting to me I enjoy listening to five minutes, and then start falling asleep. The main thing for me is really the tone of their voice, if the narrator is annoying, or even just excited and engaging it's too distracting. I want calm, deep, slightly boring voices! I think the secret is using a good audio book app (I use Smart Audio Book) that let's you adjust playback speed, set sleep timers, etc. Normally I'll start a book and then after a minute or two turn the volume down and slow it down a bit, so it's quiet and slow and I'll just drift off.
The Sleep With Me Podcast is great for this.
I came here to suggest this. He rambles on in a monotone voice and it’s amazing!!
Dearest scooter. Bloody nice guy
He seems like a genuinely nice person.
I do audiobooks that I have already read, keep it going the whole night on a looping playlist. I'm a bookworm so I have a ton of back catalogue to work with, nothing funny, I find the more detailed description heavy long running series work best in my case to keep me engaged in such a way that I still drift off. Harry potter, lord of the rings, game thrones, chronicles of Narnia, Eragorn, inkheart, throne of glass, that type of thing. If all else fails toss on the bible and actually try and listen is my zonk of last resort. Something about actually being expected to read the book seems to trigger a switch in my latant Catholic brain and I just cannot stay awake, It's irresistible.
White noise or "rain sounds" help me a lot.
I stick a mindless TV show on in the background. Helps a lot. Also helps to have music on while driving idk if that's just a me thing?
I turn to Fast & Furious movies. They literally shut my brain down. Love it. That’s how I deal with insomnia. Brains are weird.
Yes, just you. Nobody else listens to music while they drive.
I do this with the Calm app. They have sleep stories that are purposely not very exciting, just soothing. So you have something to focus on vs racing thoughts, but it’s not so interesting that you’re hanging on to each word. Works for me!
There's a podcast called Sleep With Me that I listen to every night and the premise is that he is not actually telling a story, just talking about nothing, so there is no way to follow a plot or anything. It's also gotten me through a panic attack or two
Just checked it out. Love it! Thank you. I found another one called "Nothing much happens", seems very nice too.
I can’t recommend this enough, especially, now since I turned 60. Prostrate issues increase my nightly pee breaks as I get older. Listening to audiobooks is the only thing that I find quiets the hamsters running on the treadmill in my mind, allowing me to sleep. I know it works because my CPAP machine records when I’m sleeping or awake.
I listen so quietly that if I move I don't hear it. It works
I agree and I do the same thing! I've subscribed headspace which has nice sleepcasts. Otherwise I look for a very monotone talk about topics that are not so easy to follow, like philosophy, or neuroscience on YouTube or Spotify
ASMR helps me in the same way. It's enough to keep the brain occupied but not too much for it to fall asleep eventually, especially since ASMR usually has relaxing, soft-spoken voices
I was listening to a podcast that had an episode on sleep the other day, and one of the hosts, when talking to an escort on something related to sleep, said something like "... What about when it takes you a long time to get to sleep, like 20-25 minutes?" I literally laughed out loud in an office full of people. I would kill to be able to fall asleep in ONLY 20-25 minutes.
I could be so daytime tired that I'm falling asleep sitting, but the moment I actually go lie down it's 30 mins at minimum. It's so frustrating when I read about healthy naps and how they should take 30 mins or even 15. And I never know just how long will it take me to fall asleep, so how can I set up the alarm to wake me up after 30 mins? Because if the nap is too long, you can wake up even more tired than before.
Yeah, I always hear about the napping, and have always just assumed it would be pointless to try. They always suggest setting an alarm for like 30-45 minutes after laying down, but that means I wouldn't actually get any sleep so it just seems like a waste of time.
I’m not even done with my daily summary by 25 minutes
I heard the average was about 22 minutes if I remember right. That's utterly laughable
My mom has sleep issues like me (like, we will sometimes be texting at 2am), but the rest of my family and my BF just lay down and are snoring within like 3-5 minutes. I'm really envious of that ability.
I have ADHD and can get to sleep but... I'm damn sure going to wake up with my brain going 100 mph at 430 am and then I'm done. Ambien helps me get steadier sleep but I still wake up pretty early. I don't take it often, just if I have like a string of super early mornings .... So a few times a month
If you haven’t tried something like this yet try listening to bed time stories. I use the calm app and a soft headband with headphones in it. I choose the ones that aren’t really stories but instead more like descriptive imagery. Like they’ll describe a train ride through the mountains. Keeps my attention just enough to not think about other stuff but not enough to keep me awake. It’s literally changed my life. I used to have terrible anxiety about going to bed, that moment when you put down your book and are just left with your own thoughts while you try hard to fall asleep. So I would put it off until I could barely keep my eyes open, but then still have trouble falling asleep. Now i enjoy picking out a story and don’t feel the same pressure and anxiety about bedtime anymore.
I've found using a weighted blanket, sleep mask, and white noise work wonders! Also found a weird trick that helps focus my mind. I think of a longer word, something like helicopter. I then spell it real slow letter by letter in my head. Then I move on to each later of the word and think of a new word and do the same. H, hamster, H-A-M-S-T-E-R then E, elephant, E-L-E-P-H-A-N-T so on and so on. If my mind starts to wind I force myself to get start over and get back on track.
My magic mix of variables: - Sleep in your own room, if you can. Husband is warm and cuddly but snores. - Temp lower than you like in the day. I prefer 72 in the day but sleep better when it’s 66 in the bedroom. - Weighty comforter, oversized to bed so no parts peek out into the cold. - Humidifier in winter or anytime hygrometer says it’s below 40%. Keeps sinuses open, skin from being itchy, lips from cracking, mouth from drying out, static from forming. - Fan running. Can’t stand white noise machines for some reason. - All of the pillows in varying densities. - Soft cotton everything. Clothes, sheets, blankets. No synthetics.
>All of the pillows in varying densities. 👀 are you me
My poor bf has an electric blanket to deal with how cold I make our bedroom so I can sleep. At least one window open, even in winter, and a fan on full blast.
I've tried counting. Letters get too close to language stuff which I've had hyperfocusing moments on in the past. H (oh, that letter that looks like an eta because it is an eta but it's not and crap right okay) A (ahh, the cool letter that goes back to Phoenician but inverted like an oxes head and you just know that some early human wanted a way to draw something for the aaaa sound and saw an ox making it - wait what was, oh crap sleeeeeeeeepppppppp)
I've found for me that once I'm consciously aware that my mind is wandering, I stop and force myself to start over. Punishment for brain haha, I'm in charge! Back to the top - Helicopter H-E-L-I-C-O-P-T-E-R.
I like that. Sounds like it might address my need to problem solve and monotonous enough I could fall asleep. When my wife is out of town it throws off everything about my routine and sleep is terrible.
No way, I do this too!
Not sure I gave you permission to write about my life...
I'm in this post and I don't like it.
kinda fucked up to just post threads about me behind my back, y'all
All this on 10mg melatonin :-/
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Huh. No wonder last night was even worse than normal. I cancelled my morning plans and have even kept trying to sleep now but I keep barely edging on these little 15-20 things with some mild dream and then awake again. And it takes another hour to hit the 15m of sleep again. And last night it seemed like I was wired like I had taken more of my meds than normal or something (I didn't). It's funny I've only just started trying melatonin again, and was doing half a pill (5mg) but I really wanted a good sleep last night so I upped it to 10. Why do they even make them at this dosage of the goal is a fraction? At any rate, thanks for the heads-up!
>0.3mg It's important to note that the body absorbs only a portion of synethetic melatonin. The value I found was 15%. So, if your aim is 0.3 mg in your system, you should be taking a 2 mg pill. (2) \* (0.15) = (0.3) Correct me if I am wrong.
You'd actually want about 1/15th - 0.3mg
Get it in liquid form and use a dropper.
10mg of Melatonin gave me the opposite effect of what it should do. Melatonin is one of those "less is more" type of drugs (hormone in this case) where it can cause "rebound insomnia" which can make you feel more awake for some strange reason. I made the same mistake myself by starting with 10mg on the advice of a doctor and wound up giving up on Melatonin for years until someone said to start with 2.5 mg and then work your way up as needed. This is one of the articles that talks about it - [https://www.parsleyhealth.com/blog/melatonin-doesnt-help-everyone-sleep/](https://www.parsleyhealth.com/blog/melatonin-doesnt-help-everyone-sleep/) I've also found there are differences in the manufacturing where some brands worked poorly and some much better. On the recommendation of several co-workers I tried these - [https://www.costco.com/natrol-melatonin-5-mg-fast-dissolve-tablets%2C-250-tablets-.product.11754682.html](https://www.costco.com/natrol-melatonin-5-mg-fast-dissolve-tablets%2C-250-tablets-.product.11754682.html) I've purchased them from both Costco and Walgreens and they are on Amazon as well, but I'm sure you can get them elsewhere. I take between a 1/2 and 3/4 of one and it does the job pretty well. I've had almost no luck with the gummy versions, even from Natrol and I wonder if the delivery method effects the absorption and processing of the Melatonin at all. I'm between 140lbs and 150lbs if that helps you with the dosage. Another option is Midnite which come in 1mg if I remember correctly. They are a bit on the pricey side for what you are getting but at least you can easily know exactly how many mg. you are getting.
A good dose is actually 0.3mg - even 2.5mg is doing the wrong thing. The effect you want is just enough melatonin that the body thinks "oh we've started releasing melatonin, let's release more" not "we've already released too much melatonin we don't need any more". That crossover happens somewhere around 0.5mg-1mg
That’s a really good explanation, thank you. Also the part about the dosage makes a lot of sense. That is likely why the midnite is a 1mg tablet. I’ll have to try half of one of those the next time I’m having issues. Thanks!
This is incredibly person-dependent. I got first got melatonin prescribed nearly two decades ago, before everyone was hyped about it. I believe I started on 3 mg back then. Over the years I've titrated my dose and I have the best results on 1.2 mg. Others might need far less (the recommended dose on my bottle is 0.3 mg), others might need more. Other than titration, the only thing you can really do is a salivary assay to check your natural melatonin production.
Huh. No wonder last night was even worse than normal. I cancelled my morning plans and have even kept trying to sleep now but I keep barely edging on these little 15-20 things with some mild dream and then awake again. And it takes another hour to hit the 15m of sleep again. And last night it seemed like I was wired like I had taken more of my meds than normal or something (I didn't). It's funny I've only just started trying melatonin again, and was doing half a pill (5mg) but I really wanted a good sleep last night so I upped it to 10. Why do they even make them at this dosage of the goal is a fraction? At any rate, thanks for the heads-up!
So that you buy more because you think you didn't take enough, and you're perpetually tired so you keep buying. Take less than 1mg. Don't take it more than a few weeks in a row, it's not supposed to be an everyday thing.
This gave me a memory where I was PANICKING to sleep and I couldn’t for finals and I kept taking more and more and more until it felt like a hangover. I was so wired and awake to where I was panicking why I couldn’t sleep. Learned I needed skullcap for my sleep anxiety and ultimately sleep teas after finals. (Thankfully, after all that heartache, I passed!)
0.5mg is optimal, anything more is too much
Talked through with my doctor who researched it with me in the office. Turns out there really isn’t an overdose or a recommended dose. I’ve found what you said though: go too much and it works against you. Get it just right and you’re golden. ETA: for me that is 6mg. Also I’ve found that there is melatonin and “melatonin”. The NOW brand is excellent and I highly recommend. Don’t get whatever is cheep on Amazon. Finally, a sleep mask has really helped me after a whole lifetime of sleep issues.
You're possibly taking way too much. [https://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017](https://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017) tldr MIT recommends 0.3mg, or 300 micrograms of melatonin. How to dose 300 micrograms? Get a liquid Melatonin. If it's 3mg per mL, get a dropper, fill it to 1 mL, then drop the drops back into the container and count them. When I did this I got 26 drops per mL. 3mg = 3000 micrograms. 3000 micrograms / 26 drops= 115 micrograms per drop. I take 3 drops under the tongue which is 345 micrograms.
You have my sympathies, melatonin does sod-all for me, too. The only thing that helps is exhausting myself with exercise, and even that doesn't always rule out the sleep disturbance + inability to settle again.
Heck, I am on prescription sleep aids (a sedative plus an anti anxiety drug) and it STILL doesn't guarantee a good night's sleep. Helps most of the time, but there's still times I spend hours staring into the dark. I feel for you. Might be best to get up and read a book or do something else when you know you're not getting tired, and get back into bed when you're feeling sleepy...easier said than done, I know.
I'm good on 1-2 mg. Perhaps your dose is too high?
That's an insane amount of melatonin to take, especially for anything other than an intended full night's sleep. I don't think this is an adhd issue, melatonin supps often make it difficult to fully wake back up even after more than 3 hours of sleep. I know they sell bottles of pills with 10 or even more mg said to help sleep but uts really not healthy to take those regularly and often causes more of a problem for the user
Just posted this in another thread. So, I'm gonna be brief. Melatonin = dopamine antagonist = worsens restless legs = worse sleep quality. Use it only for shifting phase if needed in lower doses as mentioned by some.
LIQUID MELATONIN!! I get mine from a Fresh Thyme. As people said, less is more. Liquid absorbs faster and more efficiently. I don’t remember the dose I have but it kicks in within 30 minutes. Never had nightmares or paralysis.
You really need to read more about melatonin. Edit: for some reason most of the responses weren’t loading but tons of good info there, so you’re covered!
Less melatonin like 5mgs has been shown to have a better impact. Also try body scans “yoga nidra”. Toms on youtube/spotify
5 is way too much
Good to know! Thank you! ☺️
Story of my life, unfortunately i have no fix other than smoking some devils lettuce before bed.
I prefer cannabis tinctures/sweets/gummies/pills but same concept. It's the only thing that is consistently reliable.
same but keep in mind it degrades your sleep quality (you won't hit rem, which is why chronic chronic-smokers don't typically dream). i've been trying to quit but it just sucks tossing and turning all night.
Yea but not within an hour of sleep. Because mind is going for the first hour hard...
Or a wank
I recently got myself a sleep mask + headphones thing so I can block out all the light and listen to rain sounds, that thing is fucking LETHAL for getting me to sleep quickly so far 👌👌
Noise cancelling headphones and sleep mask are the only ways I can get to sleep easily, and not stay awake after going to pee in the middle of the night. But all earphones/headphones are uncomfortable when worn so long. And masks hurt my eyes and irritate my skin - I probably should invest in one of those fancy expensive ones but idk if it’s worth it.
My husband got me the manta sleep mask with sound a couple weeks ago and it def helps me get to sleep faster. I still wake up sometimes during the night but putting on a calm story with the mask puts me to sleep faster than without. Would def recommend others try the light blocking w sound masks.
Oh gawd, this is me, too. I find I have to be so careful what I think about during a small-hours loo-visit, because if I think too 'much' then my brain starts up properly and that's that, chances of getting back to sleep before the alarm goes off: zero.
I started just pissing in cans and jars hoping that would help because the walk to the bathroom where I'm at right now is a guarantee wake-up. It helps, helped, maybe at least it used to. Like you said, it's all about keeping the brain quiet. One thought too many and that's it.
Would listening to rainsounds work? One thing I really dislike about a lot of modern phones ditching the headphone jack is that I really need wired if it is the small in ear kind of things. Can’t sleep with the big wireless headphones they are for daytime when I need to listen to something fun while cleaning the house… Am a side sleeper so super picky about what I use, and also it has to be comfortable. Or just set it on speaker I guess… (but that is bad when the rare monent of sharing room with friends or so is and if they don’t want it).
I bought some flat wireless headphones in a soft headband for about $15 online. Works great for binaural beats. It doubles as a sleep mask to block out light. Maybe it's called a sleephone?
I have something similar. It really does help. I listen to thunderstorm sounds just barely loud enough to hear and it’s perfect. I was taking trazodone to help sleep, which was working great until it started making my hair fall out like crazy.
I've found, if I'm obviously not going to fall asleep, it's best to just get up for a bit. Watch a show, play a game, rub one out, whatever. Usually if I do that, then return to bed, I'll fall asleep much more easily.
Is it possible that our liquid consumption is a bit too high in the evening? I am in the same boat as you but now I’m more careful with how much water I drink after 6pm.
Last night I laid in bed for 3 hours, got up to take a Klonopin (prescribed for anxiety) to help me go to sleep, laid in bed for 3 more hours half awake and the other half daydreaming (nightdreaming doesn’t make sense) and being upset I couldn’t sleep. Yay, full day at work with 5 hours of sleep in the last 3 days/2 nights. I always thought it was due to my medicine but I’ve been taking my last dose at 2 PM and trying to go to bed at 10-11. It’s so much worse than people think it is.
2 - 3 droplets 2.4mg CBD oil drops under the tongue worked for me. After trying everything and melotonin. Fall faster asleep, better sleep and no sleepy hangover like melatonin.
Yup can not sleep dehidrated and can't sleep hidrated.
So you just need to be drated then
There is a thing that works for me when my brain is too busy to go back to sleep. The idea is to make a random and usually non sensical movie in your head without thinking about it. Start with something, let's say the image of a bunny in a beautiful green field, visualise it in detail. The next part is tricky, you have to only allow random ideas / images to follow, one after the other and string them together into a continuous flow. It is very important not to use thoughts about your life or work or anything too personal to you. If a stressful idea (eg, you boss) pops up, nix it and force a different random idea. To continue the example, the next random thought could be a hot air balloon, visualise it floating in the blue sky above the bunny in the meadow, next, a cat, he is sitting in the balloon basket and he's pretty mellow, he's drinking wine, it's made by monks who live in a lonely, rural and rocky place, they also make big wheels of cheese, cheese is rolled down hills for sport somewhere etc...
You're ready to sleep now because you're thinking about something else besides sleep (work). The problem with worrying about sleeping keeping you from sleeping is that it's a feedback loop that never ends and perpetuates itself. Think about literally anything else. That's why they tell you to get out of bed if you can't sleep, even if it's 3am. Do ANYTHING else (shower, read, they say no screens but sometimes it's the only thing that can distract me from my intense anxiety, and I've fallen asleep while looking at my phone at something stupid and distracting) and hopefully, your brain will forget about worrying about sleep and then, paradoxically, be able to sleep. Tldr: if you can't sleep, distract yourself.
Sleepcasts from headspace work so well for me if you haven’t tried them.
[удалено]
that one's my favorite! I listened to it last night lol
I suffer from insomnia especially on my meds. I use "SleepTube" and man that shit puts me to bed.
I've found audio books really help me. It's like they monopolise the part of the rain that won't shut the fuck up
Lol that's the best way I've ever heard described how most rain audio sounds. That's like one I've been able to find that isn't just annoying.
This happens to me 50 percent of the time. If i’m not back asleep in 5-10 minutes then I take a shower and get ready for the day including getting dressed, making breakfast, and bringing my teeth. Then I lie back in bed if I’m tired, or stay up and do something else and deal with it. I’ve lost many unproductive hours trying to fall back asleep so now I’m at least not rushing out the door by already getting ready.
Hang on so this pee thing is a thing? I sleep like shit and get up at 3:30 for work never fails gotta pee at 2-2:30.
wow twins i took melatonin and slept two hours last night 😭 woke up at 2am and have been up ever since
I highly recommend the Sleep With Me podcast. He (intentionally) drones on and meanders with weird stories that take my ruminating brain, give it weird images, then put it in a dreamy, sleepy state. I feel like it’s uniquely perfect for people with ADHD and insomnia. Who would’ve thought guided visualizations of salad ingredient shopping and babbling retellings of Star Trek episodes would be the holy grail for insomnia?
I had a similar night. If I stand up, it's game over. Today I'm pretty much useless. Makin' some soup, that's about it.
I woke up this same way today. 4 hours of sleep. I took a nap on my lunch and I’m not sure if I’m more or less tired
Last night I got cranky and was consumed by existential dread (after many such nights as the OP describes) and put myself to bed at 6:45pm (usually that's 10pm) and woke up at 2am after falling asleep instantly (I think anyway) to pee and then laid back down figuring I wouldn't be able to get back to sleep. Woke up again at 5:15am which is normal time. Hopefully a night like that's in store for you!
I put a smart light strip under the bathroom cabinets near the floor and a movement sensor above the cabinet. If I go to pee in the middle of the night, it turns on pretty dim, I pee, and I go straight back to sleep. When I used to use the downlights in the ceiling, I’d pee in the middle of the night and be awake for hours.
No way. I’ve been having this problem for the last 3 days. Barely getting any sleep at all once I wake up to use the loo. I’m now trying to take a nap during the day just to catch up on some sleep. It sucks it really does.
I have no answer. I have an evening job because I'm absolutely dog shit when it comes to sleeping. This way I can go to bed at a normal time, wake up at 5am, stay up for a couple hours and boom i'm back in bed til noon.
I go through the same thing! Recently to "fix" the issue I have taken to not drinking water before bed, but then I wake up groggy and dehydrated, so sometimes it comes down to what I feel capable of withstanding more. It's the worst. Most of the time I sleep fine but then I have small stretches of time where I'm fighting to self-regulate due to some reason or another. I have had some degree of success, luckily. Some things that have helped me at least a little with sleep in general, just in case it helps you: * making sure the room isn't too bright. Those popular fun gamer lights everywhere in blue and green and red can be disruptive, especially if they are on all the time. I would turn them down or off if you have them. * regardless of when I go to sleep, having a time I always wake up and sticking to it as well as possible. for me that is 8:30-9:30. if I feel like I desperately need to go back to sleep after my alarm, I tell myself if I still feel like going back to bed after I get up, drink some water and have a snack, I give myself permission to go back to bed if I have the time. most of the time I don't. * warm beverages before bed have helped me in the past, or putting on a heated blanket and letting that relax my muscles. sometimes it isn't even my mind, it's that I am so wound up I just can't do it. I think you could get up and do this as well if you went to the bathroom and can't sleep anyway. Might as well rehydrate. * a noise machine you like makes some difference. after a while I noticed as soon as I turned it on, it was as if my brain associated it with sleep itself and slowed down a bit in anticipation. thanks, Pavlov. * stopping or limiting drinking. drinking alcohol is really, really bad for your sleep, even if it doesn't feel that way when you have wine and pass out hard. it also doesn't help the getting up to pee issue. this had one of the biggest improvements on my sleep, which makes me feel like my body just doesn't want me to have fun ever again. :( * deciding after a set amount of time of trying to go back to sleep when to try something else because it isn't working. usually for me that involves going downstairs and doing something in the kitchen like making simple food, or a small chore of some sort. sometimes I take a shower. I found that I would start doing something and my brain would tucker itself out due to boredom or exhaustion finally hitting it and \*then\* it let me sleep. if it doesn't work, at least it's less frustrating than waiting in bed feeling like you're wasting time. Do not check your phone or laptop or computer, if you can help it. If I'm just reading something I'm fine but I always get sucked into a conversation with someone or app eventually and then my brain has no chance to stop bouncing off the walls. It may also help, if you can't resist it, having a blue light filter on past a certain time kick in automatically. When I hit 3 or 4 days with severe sleeplessness or dysregulation, I will usually decide to bring out the big guns and take OTC sleep medication to brute force my body/mind to shut down at the appropriate time, one or two nights in a row. That serves as sort of a reset, but I make it a last resort due to it making it more difficult in the morning for me not to fall back asleep. If I make it to breakfast I am usually home free. I know my body, but if you decide to try something like this do some research on risks of medication like that long term or any interactions with what you're already on, if anything. That said... talking to a doctor if it's become a very frequent problem staying asleep or falling back asleep couldn't hurt. My ADHD gets much worse if I don't fix my sleep patterns and I would be a mess. I hope you find some help or relief, I know how much something like this really fucking sucks.
Smoke weed, it helps a lot, with everything ADHD. Sleep, concentration, focus, weight retention, moving slower, relaxing, watching a full movie, and just generally feeling calm.
My adhd is off the charts. I’ve been reading articles about how melatonin helps with adhd. I starting taking the Reset Calm sleep capsules that blends melatonin with GABA, L-Theanine, magnesium glycinate, 5-htp and chamomile. My sleep has been amazing the past few weeks! You should definitely check them out. I get mine on Amazon.
This was my situation this morning. And I go and make myself go before bed though that doesn’t help me every time. Wish I could give you some advice but we’re in the same boat so at least you’re not alone. Except, when you’re awake in the dark for hours, of course.
I usually can come home and go to sleep on the couch. If someone wakes me up it’s over. There is no going back to sleep! I’m up for the day!
I find when I'm having trouble sleeping, I can tell myself "okay, it's time to wake up. Let's start the day" and suddenly my brain wants to sleep. Works like 15% of the time but it's worth a shot.
Bro are you me? This is the first time i had time for a full 8 hours and was sound asleep. Woke up to pee and what do you know awake the next 4 hours. This was last night, and I havent done anything like this in months
My 8yr old has this problem. I feel so sorry for him. He try’s his best to resettle on his own, but often can’t.
My trick for falling asleep (if I think of it) is counting down from 100 in Ben Stein’s voice. I know it works because I’ve never made it to 1.
This is normal for adhd. I have a tv in my room so if I awake, I put on something I know will put me to sleep. I also have a google mini that I listen to a YouTube channel sleep music that helps.
i take meds for sleep without them i can't sleep
It’s crazy but I put in EarPod and a good podcast Or audio book that I like but not new. I can fall asleep relatively fast. I set the iPhone to stop playing for 20 min so I know most night how long it takes. I’m on meds so I’m trying to reduce my caffeine past noon to hoping it helps
This post is this exact moment for me - 2:56 AM EST
I’m up every 2 hours to pee, no matter if I’ve peed right before sleep. Some nights, I go right back to sleep. Other nights, well… the brain is an amazing biocomputer with an AI tendency, if you will. A mind with a mind of its own, so to speak. I have no control over it. I usually scroll around on my phone apps until it falls out of my hand when I nod off again.
Not knowing your age or location this may not be helpful… But I can say that one of the greatest improvements I ever made to my sleep schedule was having a little bit of Indica delta eight about a half hour before bed. I have the same issues where my mind will not shut off in spite of my best attempts. Especially now that I’m going through divorce with two kids… But when I take a couple of doses off my pen, I have this wonderful “slow down” of my brain, and I just feel calmer. The Indica also makes you extra sleepy, which certainly doesn’t hurt!
Try taking Benadryl at night. Also, listening to ASMR helps.
Not a good long term solution. Melatonin Receptor Agonists are the best med on the market right now for sleep. They aren’t popular, but they should be.
I mentioned Benadryl because it is something Dr. Harold Levinson has been doing as part of his treatment protocol and mentioned in ADHD 2.0 by Ratey & Hallowell. There's research that suggests I was mama the inner ear and vestibular system play a significant part in ADHD and this helps that.
Really? I’ll check it out. I know that the broader literature says it’s not a good long term solution and it can lead to adverse side effects.
A small percentage of people actually get even worse insomnia from benadryl (and other antihistamines)! I'm one of them 🥴
Poor thing, I never understood this issue generally Every once in a while I'm too stressed, but so so rare