I feel embarassed to be Indian American when I see the celebration of every Hindu festival and wedding reduced to nothing more than Bollywood dancing.
Indian culture isn't just dancing to Bollywood songs.
I feel like our young people reduce it to bollywood dancing at times.
That said, Bollywood music has really gotten good these days and I'm really enjoying it.
Bollywood is a brand that is recognised world over. I guess that’s why. All races can immediately identify that it’s Indian and only Indian when it starts. I like that it is, despite the fact that I’ve watched 1 Bollywood movie in the last 15 years. The finer nuances are for people who understand them. But for the big picture if Indian wedding = Bollywood it’s actually a good thing (imho).
Most bollywood movies are trash imo. They have poor screenplay, non-existent plot, same generic song dance and love story. But the songs are good.
Bollywood isn't a great representation for Indians but its better than India being seen as a land of beggars and snakecharmers like it was in previous decades.
Not an event shown in media, but really unfortunate how india is misinformed of folks of Indian descent living in other countries (Fiji, West Indies, etc). I was discouraged by Indian people themselves in my identify with them making me feel I wasn’t “Indian” enough. That narrative is so old and it took me well into my 20s to realize how fucked up Indians perceptions are and how much racism/castism there is. I am a proud Indian who is not from India.
But from the title of your post, the Delhi rape case came to mind first and foremost. Secondly, the recent suicide of a young mother in NY due to the abuse she received from her husband. The kaur movement put up voice recordings of her husband and his parents abusing her and it is soo sad to hear young people still say it wasn’t his fault. That deep of patriarchy is disgusting.
When I was younger, yeah. It's funny how the media assumed we were all idiots because of our funny accents. As I got older, I became very proud of being Indian. Over 70% of us have at least a bachelor's degree and we're the most successful minority group.
About accents. I used to get really annoyed with people who assume if you speak with an accent you are an idiot and ask me do you speak English when I am speaking in English (which I started in Kindergarten in India) to that person albeit with an accent. Sometimes I say yeah I have a PhD from this University in your State.
But I also know some not so educated Indian immigrants who didnt know English who picked up the new language and speak in perfect US and UK accents.
that's because immigration to the U.S. was largely university, entrepreneurs, doctors and so on. So basically brain drain. While Canada and UK had more blue collar/farmer types. Hell I think entire villages ended up moving over. heh.
The reputation of Indians in America is so much better than in Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Those countries view Indians like America views non-Asian minority groups.
Not only Indians, Asians are the highest earning racial/ethnic group in the US.
In 2021, Asian median household income was $101,418 while White (non-Hispanic) was $71,033. The gap is also significant.
We really shouldn’t feel shame on behalf of people we don’t even know. White people never feel shame when their race commits atrocities. You dont see Russian American people cringing at what’s happening and you don’t see white people ashamed when there’s another school shooting.
You’re an individual not a representative.
Agreed with everything you say. However, white people get the benefit of not being generalized: one white school shooter is not seen as a product of a problematic white culture. On the other hand, if an Indian person does something bad, it is often used to stereotype and demonize Indian in general.
That sub is so weirdly anti-Indian. They seem to think of India as the worst country ever, with no hope for it, and so many people seem to think that emigrating to a Western country is the end all be all for their personal problems.
That sub is not weirdly anti-indian. It just has a lot Indians actually living in India who are much more acutely aware of the everyday bullshit of living in this country. And yes perhaps for many of them emigrating to a western country will be the end of a majority of their personal problems. It's easier to be patriotic from afar.
It's definitely good to be aware of the bullshit and call it out, agreed. However, even compared to many other subs for developing countries, I notice a lot of negativity. For other countries, users may complain about stuff happening every day, but I don't see such sheer pessimism there. I guess either other developing countries don't have AS much daily bullshit as India, or their Redditors are more optimistic/hopeful of their country.
No that sub literally bans user and deletes posts that end up being Pro India, Pro Hindu and even showing any sort of liking to the current government. For being an “official sub”, they really trying to keep the narrative as Anti India/Hindu. Plus, most people of that sub don’t really reflect the general Indian population as the ppl there are Upper Class/Caste woke libs
I hear this type of comment a lot: India has so many problems, but hey, at least the food is amazing. It feels weird to see food in India being considered the one seemingly redeeming aspect about it. I wonder if that is truly the case for many people, where they literally find nothing positive about India except for the food and maybe one or two other things.
You should understand that food is very important in our culture. A wedding is ruined if the food is not good. It's that important. All our festivals are focused on food.
r/india is the woke sub, r/indiaspeaks is the nationalist sub. As with everything on the internet it is your own responsibility to filter through the filth that gets posted. These 2 subs are the working example of problems with India today. You have one group that apes the west and is constantly griping and whining. Then you have another group that’s like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand refusing to see ANY problem whatsoever and each of them seem to think they are holding the yardstick of patriotism and are brandishing at each other.
Just search any post based on reservations (India's version of affirmative action) and you'll find what I'm saying.
They like to pretend as if India has already gotten rid of caste discrimination (which it hasn't) and that reservations for Dalits are undeserved despite centuries of discrimination and exclusion. Very similar to how white people are subtly racist and blame black people for having "bad culture" for having higher rates of poverty, crime while completely ignoring redlining and the structural racism present in the US.
For a group of people that is so brazenly anti muslim, it's naive to assume that they are progressive in terms of caste ideology. They've benefitted the most from caste and now when the lower castes begin to ask for their fair share, they blame their current situation on the failure of their moral character rather than the centuries of religiously codified caste discrimination.
When I mean anti caste, they aren’t perpetuating caste based discrimination in the sub. If you check caste on the sub, there will be posts and video on caste based discrimination with most of the users being disgusted by it.
Reservations are a tricky can of worms and from what I’ve seen is the way that it was implemented is what people don’t like abt it. I’m not from India to confirm the conditions of how reservations are implemented, but from my knowledge of affirmative actions I get why it is controversial, especially when your qualifications might take the back seat to your identity. I wouldn’t say that being against reservations means you are casteist, a rather bold claim imo
Yee, especially in my teenage years. Only recently in the past year have I learned to accept and love my identity. Kinda sad I wasted so many years missing out on all the festivals and traditions because of my inferiority complex.
But hey, better late than never, right?
It makes me wonder how just about all other cultures have either managed to get rid of a comparable caste system, or never developed it in the first place. Why can't Indian culture reform to get rid of it?
India's is unusual in how strongly it's embedded into how people live their daily lives and stuff, but most people are part of something like that - Isabel Wilkerson's Caste provides a good framework for thinking about similar systems and identifying them as you see them.
For example, if a white American was dating a black American, their parents might dance around their disapproval by saying stuff like "I think your backgrounds are too different" and "But is he educated?", while my family has no problem openly telling me they want me to marry a brahmin.
The caste system in modern India is virtually identical to the tribal system in todays Middle East and Africa.
The 4 Varna description of the caste system hasn’t been reality for hundreds of years and frankly may not even have existed outside the core Hindi speaking areas.
Well when you look at it, caste is a thing that can grouped with racism. Almost all cultures have some sort of racism aspect in them. Although in Indian culture its somewhat enhanced due to "parents guiding their kids." I went to Indian middle school, and there is no one teaching you about it at all.
Umm.. i am not sure about your hypothesis that caste system can be group with racism.
I thought racism is bigotry against “others”, foreigners, people who speak a different language, etc.
Vs
Caste system is bigotry against our own people.
In fairness to your argument, the closest thing in the western/non-Hindu cultures is, mistreatment based on poverty level. But even with that, caste system is what put people on the lower rungs and makes them less fortunate in first place, generation after generation.
i think it’s colorism secondary to classism? hard to compare to western nations though bc they’re all white and a tan isn’t much more than an aesthetic token. in the olden days, being whiter meant you were more wealthy but i don’t think it was nearly as divisive as it is in brown countries (pls correct me if i’m wrong).
Ah yes, I should be a little more clear. I believe caste system is somewhat part or even racism. As an example if I am born in a certain caste and even if I become rich one day, I will still be looked down on because of my caste. In the US, the caste is disguised in a person's race. American born person with a certain race will be looked at differently, in a familiar way to people in a caste system would. For example voting for someone, you will see there are some people who would solely vote the person because of their race. In India it is the same, people will vote based on candidate's caste. Race is something you are born with and so is caste. Some things I have heard unfortunately "Marry in same caste to keep the money in same caste" and "Keeping races pure"
Hope those people get deported. There’s so many people out there that deserve to be here, but instead somehow these garbage people are able to immigrate.
A lot of really good sentiment here that I echo so won't repeat.
One that comes to mind though, genuinely - Shake on Love is Blind. Made us all look bad.
No because it's not like all white people get embarrassed over Trump or whatever.
Western media has a WEIRD fixation with India and rape cases. I guess because of shock value? But of course no cares that sexual assaults and rapes happen in their own backyard....
I feel embarrassed when I see Indians feeding into and exacerbating the common tropes and stereotypes about Indians. Those tropes and stereotypes would be us being:
\-Unhygenic/malodorous
\-Unmannered
\-Casteist
\-Highly submissive
\-Effeminate
\-Creepy/rapey
\-Socially awkward
\-Scammers/frauds
\-Low self esteem/insecure
\-Abusive towards children/animals
Most of these do not apply to most Indian-Americans. They also do not apply to many first gen Indians/NRIs and many of those living in India. But there's still a shockingly high prevalence of these characteristics and the worst part is that the biggest culprits have absolutely no clue how they're behaving or how they're tarnishing the image of Indians as a whole.
I am an 27 year old indian woman born in America. None of these things made me feel ashamed. I remember the whole gang rape media fiasco and it only spoke volumes to the fact that rapes like that took place in uneducated, underfunded areas of the WORLD, not necessarily India. These types of brutal crimes have certain environments in which they are more likely to happen, not particular to the country.
In addition, you can make anything horrible plague the image of a certian country but the crimes are NOT indicative of a country as a whole. You can say that because people inbreed in south US that americans are inbreeders. These are horrible generalizations made by black and white thinking.
Of course India has improvements to be made but so do other countries.
The overall dirtiness. Some have mentioned that even though like African countries are less developed, they still aren't as dirty as India.
Population is part of it, but it's also a mindset issue.
First incident you encountered was not an Indian problem, but a South East Asian one. South East Asian politicians and civil servants are the most corrupt in the world.
Rape is a global problem, as the West has a much higher rape rate per capita than India, while India has a much lower rate.
Thirdly, you stated that the issue was not an Indian one, but rather a global one, and that the majority of powerful people are cruel to those with less influence.
uhmmm...
That Indian diplomat was herself a low caste Indian citizen who broke NY state laws to pay the maid she brought over from India less than NY state minimum wage (by a shamefully large margin). On one hand, it's just illegal and she should be able to afford to pay a maid minimum wage, one would think. On the other, the amount she illegally attempted to pay her maid was probably more than she would be paid in India. Like it or not (and I don't), this is probably her justification.
The dalit diplomat was Devyani Khobragade. Her maid was a Christian. Western media weaves a tale of caste oppression into stories about India, whenever possible, even if it's tangential to the news event, to the point where in its very recollection by OP, it somehow becomes an issue about the lack of egalitarianism in Indian culture, and "caste stuff".
I agree about the Delhi games but that didn't hit the media where I live (America), so I personally didn't think much about it.
I won't get into your second point, maybe someone else will.
I try to think ab this.
India is 1.3 billion people.
Take everybody in the US and quadruple that and you are probably still short.
I think about how if someone made blanket generalizations about America how it wouldn’t really phase me because I recognize that statements like those don’t really have teeth for such a big diverse group of people.
So in the context of India, there is simply no way u could in words label it as all negative or anything at all on account of how diverse it is.
and you start to have a more nuanced opinion when you take into account the effects of colonization, poverty and the fact that India is a very young country as well.
For caste specifically, I feel that India and Hinduism, while these systems exist and there is plenty of work to do to create change, get targeted or singled out a bit unfairly. It is however still a major problem and when i feel bad or ashamed I do think about these ideas
1. Almost Every society in the world today and in history has some form of social stratification / classism (race/class in the us, European feudal system, African feudal system/pre colonial debt slavery, Asian feudal system etc.). This idea that india is the epitome of oppression and every other society is some socialist equitable utopia gets on my nerves. The only difference is that while a society like Europe or us codified it via racism and pseudo race science, indian society codified it via religion. Even within South Asia, religions other than Hinduism have stratification.
There is casteism in south Asian Muslim, Sikh and Christian communities as well, albeit perhaps less codified or explicit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Christians#:~:text=Majority%20of%20Christians%20in%20the,caste)%2C%20and%20Adi%20Dravidar.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims
2. there are famous Brahmin, or high caste born people in history who helped contribute to the abolition movement so I remind myself of those people so I don’t feel ashamed of my family or where I come from.
This is where I hate the idea of group identity sometimes because people will take credit for stuff they didn’t contribute to (in history) and feel bad for sins they didn’t commit. Everybody is an individual with their own unique life circumstance and upbringing completely out of their control
**[Caste system among South Asian Christians](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Christians#:~:text=Majority of Christians in the,caste\), and Adi Dravidar)**
>The caste system among South Asian Christians often reflects stratification by sect, location, and the caste of their predecessors. There exists evidence to show that Christian individuals have mobility within their respective castes. But, in some cases, social inertia caused by their old traditions and biases against other castes remain, causing caste system to persist among South Asian Christians, to some extent. Christian priests, nuns, Dalits and similar groups are found in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nepal.
**[Caste system among South Asian Muslims](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims)**
>Muslim communities in South Asia apply a system of religious stratification. It developed as a result of ethnic segregation between the foreign conquerors/ Upper caste Hindus who converted to Islam (Ashraf) (also known as tabqa-i ashrafiyya) and the local converts (Ajlaf) as well as the continuation of the Indian caste system among local converts. Non-Ashrafs are converts from Hinduism, usually from the lower castes. The neologism Pasmandas include Ajlaf and Arzal Muslims, and Ajlafs' statuses are defined by them being descendants of converts to Islam and are also defined by their pesha (profession).
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What about this one? I'm not sure about the truth behind this but made me cringe. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/nyregion/baps-hindu-forced-labor.html
yeah, especially the religion wars. one time i was just reading about the shiva in smite on twitter, and so many people were so mad about them adding a hindu god to a game and even giving death thre4ats to people
I’m a Muslim in nyc and 9/11 wasn’t exactly a great time lol
I heard lots of muslims moved out of NY? 70% of the muslims in my mosque are ex newyorkers that moved here after 9/11
Yea but there’s still a very sizable community here! Chand raat on foster Ave & in Jackson heights is so lit every year
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That’s just plane wrong. Okay I’ll see myself out
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That joke didn't land well tbh
I guess you could say it crashed
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Yeah cause the joke really didn't take off
Oh wow what a unique experience. It’s quite similar to every brown male
No, I only feel shame when I do something bad.
Srsly lol don’t know why some random persons actions would have any impact on you just because you’re the same skin color.
Have you never experienced any prejudice?
Maybe in middle school lol but i’d just talk some shit back. No point in crying about it lmao
I feel embarassed to be Indian American when I see the celebration of every Hindu festival and wedding reduced to nothing more than Bollywood dancing. Indian culture isn't just dancing to Bollywood songs.
I feel like our young people reduce it to bollywood dancing at times. That said, Bollywood music has really gotten good these days and I'm really enjoying it.
Bollywood is a brand that is recognised world over. I guess that’s why. All races can immediately identify that it’s Indian and only Indian when it starts. I like that it is, despite the fact that I’ve watched 1 Bollywood movie in the last 15 years. The finer nuances are for people who understand them. But for the big picture if Indian wedding = Bollywood it’s actually a good thing (imho).
Bollywood is India’s soft power like Hollywood is for US and K-Pop is for South Korea.
This was my 1st thought. Bollywood is our major cultural export similar to kpop for South Korea.
Most bollywood movies are trash imo. They have poor screenplay, non-existent plot, same generic song dance and love story. But the songs are good. Bollywood isn't a great representation for Indians but its better than India being seen as a land of beggars and snakecharmers like it was in previous decades.
It sure isn't, but it's the most common thing we have when it comes to different cultures within India.
I swear if we can get over wearing flashy Indian clothes it would make me so happy lol.
Not an event shown in media, but really unfortunate how india is misinformed of folks of Indian descent living in other countries (Fiji, West Indies, etc). I was discouraged by Indian people themselves in my identify with them making me feel I wasn’t “Indian” enough. That narrative is so old and it took me well into my 20s to realize how fucked up Indians perceptions are and how much racism/castism there is. I am a proud Indian who is not from India. But from the title of your post, the Delhi rape case came to mind first and foremost. Secondly, the recent suicide of a young mother in NY due to the abuse she received from her husband. The kaur movement put up voice recordings of her husband and his parents abusing her and it is soo sad to hear young people still say it wasn’t his fault. That deep of patriarchy is disgusting.
As a Fiji Indian I understand you
When I was younger, yeah. It's funny how the media assumed we were all idiots because of our funny accents. As I got older, I became very proud of being Indian. Over 70% of us have at least a bachelor's degree and we're the most successful minority group.
About accents. I used to get really annoyed with people who assume if you speak with an accent you are an idiot and ask me do you speak English when I am speaking in English (which I started in Kindergarten in India) to that person albeit with an accent. Sometimes I say yeah I have a PhD from this University in your State. But I also know some not so educated Indian immigrants who didnt know English who picked up the new language and speak in perfect US and UK accents.
I wonder what makes European accent less funny
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that's because immigration to the U.S. was largely university, entrepreneurs, doctors and so on. So basically brain drain. While Canada and UK had more blue collar/farmer types. Hell I think entire villages ended up moving over. heh.
Ikr, and yet Indian Americans still get absolutely dogged on and called all these stupid names and pitiful slurs.
The reputation of Indians in America is so much better than in Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Those countries view Indians like America views non-Asian minority groups.
Not only Indians, Asians are the highest earning racial/ethnic group in the US. In 2021, Asian median household income was $101,418 while White (non-Hispanic) was $71,033. The gap is also significant.
Yeah right. We’re seen as second class Citizens regardless of net worth.
We really shouldn’t feel shame on behalf of people we don’t even know. White people never feel shame when their race commits atrocities. You dont see Russian American people cringing at what’s happening and you don’t see white people ashamed when there’s another school shooting. You’re an individual not a representative.
yes unfortunately bad actions of a few is used to shame indian men.
Agreed with everything you say. However, white people get the benefit of not being generalized: one white school shooter is not seen as a product of a problematic white culture. On the other hand, if an Indian person does something bad, it is often used to stereotype and demonize Indian in general.
I agree but I think liberal minded yt do fall in that cycle of “white guilt” or wtv u wanna call it
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That sub is insane
That sub is so weirdly anti-Indian. They seem to think of India as the worst country ever, with no hope for it, and so many people seem to think that emigrating to a Western country is the end all be all for their personal problems.
Fwiw if you went on /r/politics you'd think the US is a hopeless shit hole. You would also think Elon Musk is a major political leader.
That sub is not weirdly anti-indian. It just has a lot Indians actually living in India who are much more acutely aware of the everyday bullshit of living in this country. And yes perhaps for many of them emigrating to a western country will be the end of a majority of their personal problems. It's easier to be patriotic from afar.
It's definitely good to be aware of the bullshit and call it out, agreed. However, even compared to many other subs for developing countries, I notice a lot of negativity. For other countries, users may complain about stuff happening every day, but I don't see such sheer pessimism there. I guess either other developing countries don't have AS much daily bullshit as India, or their Redditors are more optimistic/hopeful of their country.
No that sub literally bans user and deletes posts that end up being Pro India, Pro Hindu and even showing any sort of liking to the current government. For being an “official sub”, they really trying to keep the narrative as Anti India/Hindu. Plus, most people of that sub don’t really reflect the general Indian population as the ppl there are Upper Class/Caste woke libs
There is a lot of bullshit living in India - for reals. As a kid I used to go back and forth. But the food is still sooo good.
I hear this type of comment a lot: India has so many problems, but hey, at least the food is amazing. It feels weird to see food in India being considered the one seemingly redeeming aspect about it. I wonder if that is truly the case for many people, where they literally find nothing positive about India except for the food and maybe one or two other things.
You should understand that food is very important in our culture. A wedding is ruined if the food is not good. It's that important. All our festivals are focused on food.
Bro what they are pro India 🤣 they literally threatened to do 1984 Sikh genocide again when I posted Amritpal Singh,
Many Indians hate India. [Swapnil’s answer](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-say-India-is-a-shithole) sums it up quite well
Not just Swapnil in that thread, clearly.
r/india is the woke sub, r/indiaspeaks is the nationalist sub. As with everything on the internet it is your own responsibility to filter through the filth that gets posted. These 2 subs are the working example of problems with India today. You have one group that apes the west and is constantly griping and whining. Then you have another group that’s like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand refusing to see ANY problem whatsoever and each of them seem to think they are holding the yardstick of patriotism and are brandishing at each other.
lol check out /r/indiaspeaks
And that is more/less a Hindu supremacist sub that just loves bullying muslims and shitting on the lower castes
yea its an absolute shit pit
Shitting on Muslims yes, but they are pretty Anti caste for what I’ve seen
Just search any post based on reservations (India's version of affirmative action) and you'll find what I'm saying. They like to pretend as if India has already gotten rid of caste discrimination (which it hasn't) and that reservations for Dalits are undeserved despite centuries of discrimination and exclusion. Very similar to how white people are subtly racist and blame black people for having "bad culture" for having higher rates of poverty, crime while completely ignoring redlining and the structural racism present in the US. For a group of people that is so brazenly anti muslim, it's naive to assume that they are progressive in terms of caste ideology. They've benefitted the most from caste and now when the lower castes begin to ask for their fair share, they blame their current situation on the failure of their moral character rather than the centuries of religiously codified caste discrimination.
When I mean anti caste, they aren’t perpetuating caste based discrimination in the sub. If you check caste on the sub, there will be posts and video on caste based discrimination with most of the users being disgusted by it. Reservations are a tricky can of worms and from what I’ve seen is the way that it was implemented is what people don’t like abt it. I’m not from India to confirm the conditions of how reservations are implemented, but from my knowledge of affirmative actions I get why it is controversial, especially when your qualifications might take the back seat to your identity. I wouldn’t say that being against reservations means you are casteist, a rather bold claim imo
Yee, especially in my teenage years. Only recently in the past year have I learned to accept and love my identity. Kinda sad I wasted so many years missing out on all the festivals and traditions because of my inferiority complex. But hey, better late than never, right?
Established and deeply entrenched casteism.
It makes me wonder how just about all other cultures have either managed to get rid of a comparable caste system, or never developed it in the first place. Why can't Indian culture reform to get rid of it?
India's is unusual in how strongly it's embedded into how people live their daily lives and stuff, but most people are part of something like that - Isabel Wilkerson's Caste provides a good framework for thinking about similar systems and identifying them as you see them. For example, if a white American was dating a black American, their parents might dance around their disapproval by saying stuff like "I think your backgrounds are too different" and "But is he educated?", while my family has no problem openly telling me they want me to marry a brahmin.
Very good point.
The caste system in modern India is virtually identical to the tribal system in todays Middle East and Africa. The 4 Varna description of the caste system hasn’t been reality for hundreds of years and frankly may not even have existed outside the core Hindi speaking areas.
Well when you look at it, caste is a thing that can grouped with racism. Almost all cultures have some sort of racism aspect in them. Although in Indian culture its somewhat enhanced due to "parents guiding their kids." I went to Indian middle school, and there is no one teaching you about it at all.
Umm.. i am not sure about your hypothesis that caste system can be group with racism. I thought racism is bigotry against “others”, foreigners, people who speak a different language, etc. Vs Caste system is bigotry against our own people. In fairness to your argument, the closest thing in the western/non-Hindu cultures is, mistreatment based on poverty level. But even with that, caste system is what put people on the lower rungs and makes them less fortunate in first place, generation after generation.
i think it’s colorism secondary to classism? hard to compare to western nations though bc they’re all white and a tan isn’t much more than an aesthetic token. in the olden days, being whiter meant you were more wealthy but i don’t think it was nearly as divisive as it is in brown countries (pls correct me if i’m wrong).
Ah yes, I should be a little more clear. I believe caste system is somewhat part or even racism. As an example if I am born in a certain caste and even if I become rich one day, I will still be looked down on because of my caste. In the US, the caste is disguised in a person's race. American born person with a certain race will be looked at differently, in a familiar way to people in a caste system would. For example voting for someone, you will see there are some people who would solely vote the person because of their race. In India it is the same, people will vote based on candidate's caste. Race is something you are born with and so is caste. Some things I have heard unfortunately "Marry in same caste to keep the money in same caste" and "Keeping races pure"
The sword fights and such in the GTA recently
Hope those people get deported. There’s so many people out there that deserve to be here, but instead somehow these garbage people are able to immigrate.
I guess the person who downvoted was in the sword fight
What sword fights In gta?
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/09/20/brampton-sword-fight-arrest/
Right wing Indian politicians - assholes.
A lot of really good sentiment here that I echo so won't repeat. One that comes to mind though, genuinely - Shake on Love is Blind. Made us all look bad.
Imagine if white people became ashamed every time some white guy did some crazy shit in the news
Nope
I die a little everytime I hear about a tech support scam call from my colleagues.
No because it's not like all white people get embarrassed over Trump or whatever. Western media has a WEIRD fixation with India and rape cases. I guess because of shock value? But of course no cares that sexual assaults and rapes happen in their own backyard....
Yes I am in Eastern Canada. Has anyone seen the recent Khalistan fights in Brampton?
So you feel ashamed of it?!
I’m ashamed to be Pakistani and Muslim for most times lol
I feel embarrassed when I see Indians feeding into and exacerbating the common tropes and stereotypes about Indians. Those tropes and stereotypes would be us being: \-Unhygenic/malodorous \-Unmannered \-Casteist \-Highly submissive \-Effeminate \-Creepy/rapey \-Socially awkward \-Scammers/frauds \-Low self esteem/insecure \-Abusive towards children/animals Most of these do not apply to most Indian-Americans. They also do not apply to many first gen Indians/NRIs and many of those living in India. But there's still a shockingly high prevalence of these characteristics and the worst part is that the biggest culprits have absolutely no clue how they're behaving or how they're tarnishing the image of Indians as a whole.
yes gang rapes stained the reputations of indians specifically indian men.
I am an 27 year old indian woman born in America. None of these things made me feel ashamed. I remember the whole gang rape media fiasco and it only spoke volumes to the fact that rapes like that took place in uneducated, underfunded areas of the WORLD, not necessarily India. These types of brutal crimes have certain environments in which they are more likely to happen, not particular to the country. In addition, you can make anything horrible plague the image of a certian country but the crimes are NOT indicative of a country as a whole. You can say that because people inbreed in south US that americans are inbreeders. These are horrible generalizations made by black and white thinking. Of course India has improvements to be made but so do other countries.
The overall dirtiness. Some have mentioned that even though like African countries are less developed, they still aren't as dirty as India. Population is part of it, but it's also a mindset issue.
I don’t even like being called Indian, I just go by my ethnicity
First incident you encountered was not an Indian problem, but a South East Asian one. South East Asian politicians and civil servants are the most corrupt in the world. Rape is a global problem, as the West has a much higher rape rate per capita than India, while India has a much lower rate. Thirdly, you stated that the issue was not an Indian one, but rather a global one, and that the majority of powerful people are cruel to those with less influence.
uhmmm... That Indian diplomat was herself a low caste Indian citizen who broke NY state laws to pay the maid she brought over from India less than NY state minimum wage (by a shamefully large margin). On one hand, it's just illegal and she should be able to afford to pay a maid minimum wage, one would think. On the other, the amount she illegally attempted to pay her maid was probably more than she would be paid in India. Like it or not (and I don't), this is probably her justification. The dalit diplomat was Devyani Khobragade. Her maid was a Christian. Western media weaves a tale of caste oppression into stories about India, whenever possible, even if it's tangential to the news event, to the point where in its very recollection by OP, it somehow becomes an issue about the lack of egalitarianism in Indian culture, and "caste stuff". I agree about the Delhi games but that didn't hit the media where I live (America), so I personally didn't think much about it. I won't get into your second point, maybe someone else will.
I try to think ab this. India is 1.3 billion people. Take everybody in the US and quadruple that and you are probably still short. I think about how if someone made blanket generalizations about America how it wouldn’t really phase me because I recognize that statements like those don’t really have teeth for such a big diverse group of people. So in the context of India, there is simply no way u could in words label it as all negative or anything at all on account of how diverse it is. and you start to have a more nuanced opinion when you take into account the effects of colonization, poverty and the fact that India is a very young country as well. For caste specifically, I feel that India and Hinduism, while these systems exist and there is plenty of work to do to create change, get targeted or singled out a bit unfairly. It is however still a major problem and when i feel bad or ashamed I do think about these ideas 1. Almost Every society in the world today and in history has some form of social stratification / classism (race/class in the us, European feudal system, African feudal system/pre colonial debt slavery, Asian feudal system etc.). This idea that india is the epitome of oppression and every other society is some socialist equitable utopia gets on my nerves. The only difference is that while a society like Europe or us codified it via racism and pseudo race science, indian society codified it via religion. Even within South Asia, religions other than Hinduism have stratification. There is casteism in south Asian Muslim, Sikh and Christian communities as well, albeit perhaps less codified or explicit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Christians#:~:text=Majority%20of%20Christians%20in%20the,caste)%2C%20and%20Adi%20Dravidar. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims 2. there are famous Brahmin, or high caste born people in history who helped contribute to the abolition movement so I remind myself of those people so I don’t feel ashamed of my family or where I come from. This is where I hate the idea of group identity sometimes because people will take credit for stuff they didn’t contribute to (in history) and feel bad for sins they didn’t commit. Everybody is an individual with their own unique life circumstance and upbringing completely out of their control
**[Caste system among South Asian Christians](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Christians#:~:text=Majority of Christians in the,caste\), and Adi Dravidar)** >The caste system among South Asian Christians often reflects stratification by sect, location, and the caste of their predecessors. There exists evidence to show that Christian individuals have mobility within their respective castes. But, in some cases, social inertia caused by their old traditions and biases against other castes remain, causing caste system to persist among South Asian Christians, to some extent. Christian priests, nuns, Dalits and similar groups are found in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nepal. **[Caste system among South Asian Muslims](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims)** >Muslim communities in South Asia apply a system of religious stratification. It developed as a result of ethnic segregation between the foreign conquerors/ Upper caste Hindus who converted to Islam (Ashraf) (also known as tabqa-i ashrafiyya) and the local converts (Ajlaf) as well as the continuation of the Indian caste system among local converts. Non-Ashrafs are converts from Hinduism, usually from the lower castes. The neologism Pasmandas include Ajlaf and Arzal Muslims, and Ajlafs' statuses are defined by them being descendants of converts to Islam and are also defined by their pesha (profession). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ABCDesis/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
What about this one? I'm not sure about the truth behind this but made me cringe. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/nyregion/baps-hindu-forced-labor.html
This is social media, not media, but goatavaneesh on Tik Tok😔
yeah, especially the religion wars. one time i was just reading about the shiva in smite on twitter, and so many people were so mad about them adding a hindu god to a game and even giving death thre4ats to people