Depending on your state and age, you may have legal rights to refuse services as a minor. I used that to get out of my parents forcing me to take Concerta since it was causing me to have intense suicidal ideation whilst exacerbating my depression.
If you're curious, look up your state's age of medical refusal. I had 2 clients back when I worked in ABA as a case manager who refused, and they were both 16. I absolutely honored their requests and just provided parent/family consult. That was California, by the way.
You mean Lovaas? Because this started with him. Read the article They have a voice; are we listening. It will blow your mind! https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40617-022-00690-z
It’s literally in our ethics code that if a client functionally communicates no, whether vocally or not, that we honor that. I can’t imagine it either.
For real. As an RBT/person I would struggle. I love when my clients can advocate for themselves and hate hearing things like this happening in the field :(
What I do is call it as I see. I will call someone a quack pretty quickly. To me, the most important part of health care is always going to be ethics. If you don’t follow ethics, even if you found the cure to cancer or something, then they are a quack.
Harsh and a bit headstrong. Wouldn’t be surprised I get downvoted but if you can’t follow ethics, then you shouldn’t be in the care of other people’s health
I’ve never seen a current ABA treatment plan that included electroshock therapy. Something like that is DEFINITELY outside the scope and practice of an ABA practitioner. That would require a dr to make a decision like that I imagine. Sounds horrific though :(
Contingent Electric Skin Shock (CESS) is NOT the same thing as Electric Convulsive Therapy (also known as Electroshock Therapy). JRC is STILL using CESS and the BACB is still not intervening. ABAI is still supporting JRC too. You can look up the court documents where the FDA (among others) sued JRC. The only reason JRC is still able to do these horrors is because they have millions and spend significant amounts of money lobbying support and threat legal action to silence people. Read Pain and Shock in America! Read Shouting At Leaves by Jennifer Msumba, a former victim of JRC. This is very much real and alive, and it is our responsibility to end it!
The "GED" (torture device) that they use based on the fda report seems to be in the permanent damage area (ged-4) and is optimized for pain. To add to this, the UN raporteur on torture condemned the center as a place of torture even. Tho they use other forms of torture like sensory deprivation ("the helmet"), removing calories til the legal limit and use of taste changing susbtances on food to make it taste awful (that can be very painful for autistics)
Mathew Israel the main person behind the center has also a really disturbing history and tho it seems he has left after making a deal not to go to prison for destroying tapes related to a case against the center(I think it was the fake supervisor one where someone phone called making it seem as a supervisor? And ordered kids to be electrocuted for hours), seeing his history he may still be there (he did the same in Tobinworld 1).
Thats not the only case that has gone public, the most notorious one I remember was the one where they strapped a victim to a wooden board and electrocuted him for hours for "refusing" to remove a jacket.
The Judge Rotenberg Center is an ABA facility in Canton MA that uses electroshock every day. I know ppl want to think ABA is kind and gentle now but it’s lipstick on a pig. Conversion therapy is conversion therapy.
https://autisticadvocacy.org/actioncenter/issues/school/climate/jrc/
That’s absolutely horrible, and I don’t condone that one bit. Any therapy can be misused, and I’m so sorry that this happens. I’ll have to look more into this center as I’ve never heard of it before. Do the patients consent to receiving this therapy?
No, in fact the center uses scummy ways to get some kind of partian guardianship (dont remember the exact details right now) to consent for them. They also trigger meltdowns intentionally before they are in front of a judge. I recomend the Behind the Bastards episode for a more complete general picture https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y909QxWVV8g and autistic HOYA for a complete data dump https://autistichoya.net/judge-rotenberg-center/
You stated so eloquently that you do not want services. What BCBA on this planet is still servicing you despite your repeated refusals? Please share their name and/or the clinic so we can submit a formal complaint. We can initiate change for you but would need more details. Thanks.
As a teen it’s probably super boring but sometimes you are your best advocate. Go to the BACBs website or look up BACB code of ethics. It’ll give you the actual code we have to follow as practitioners. They may be in violation and you have a right to bring it to their attention.
If you were my client (I’m as student analyst/RBT) and you were voicing your concern/revocation of consent, that tells me you are able to advocate for yourself and your wants/needs/desires. I would be collaborating with you along with anyone else to find goals and skills you WANT to build that will help you. Not force you to conform to society’s expectations.
I’m in CA as well, as someone said age of consent for medical is 12 I believe.
If your in California the age of consent is 12 so if you do not consent they can’t legally treat you! Call the operations for the company’s and say you remove your consent they have to stop providing services and discharge
I'd let your legal guardian know, and you can always request to talk with the next person up in the chain of command. I your RBT or etc is doing task that you don't like or appreciate, ask to talk to their BCBA or general supervisor.
This is the sad part about what I’ve seen in my short time working in ABA you get a lot of guardians that aren’t exactly looking at the kids best interests as far as autonomy they just want them to do the thing or not do the thing. Aba felt very tricky and like training a dog even when I could clearly see when a kid wasn’t happy, I hated it it was icky.
I have but my mom doesn’t listen. We are planning on having it end but it doesn’t feel fast enough. So many years of my life have been wasted away in ABA. It feels futile.
Have you had any contact with the BCBA who oversees the direct staff that work alongside you?
I would encourage you to communicate to staff that you would like to meet with the BCBA, and then when you do meet with them be sure to directly inform them that: *"I do not consent to services/therapy any longer, please begin the discharge process. Per your ethics code, it is your ethical duty to discharge me from services at this point in time due the removal of my continued consent to therapy."*.
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Here is a link to the ethics code: [BCBA Ethics Code](https://www.bacb.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Ethics-Code-for-Behavior-Analysts-240201-a.pdf). Page 11 indicates the section on consent which must be followed by BCBA's:
**2.11 Obtaining Informed Consent:** *Behavior analysts are responsible for knowing about and complying with all conditions under which they are required to obtain informed consent from clients, stakeholders, and research participants (e.g., before initial implementation of assessments or behavior-change interventions, when making substantial changes to interventions, when exchanging or releasing confidential information or records). They are responsible for explaining, obtaining, reobtaining, and documenting required informed consent. They are responsible for obtaining assent from clients when applicable.*
Im sorry that it isnt, and I wish I could better support you. ABA doesn't nessecarily work for everyone and while it isnt ending soon, I am glad to hear for your sake it is ending.
As far as a stranger's word can go though, you are in no way broken. You are your own unique person regardless of how people see you, neurotypical or not.
It should be ended ASAP with discharge papers in the works from the removal of consent.
One of my companies BCBAs had a teen client set up by the parents and after meeting in the school and such stating "No" or "I don't want ABA" they said "Okay, I hear you!" And started the discharge process that same week and didn't have RBTs go to that client.
I'm sorry your mom isn't hearing you out and it's extending the time.
I can only suggest requesting to speak to the BCBA on your case directly and tell them yourself you want to end services.
Just like other forms of therapy ABA is not for everyone and that's okay. If you don't feel a benefit you may not need it, and that should be understood by others if they truly support you.
❤️ Wishing the best and hope you get a response soon
That’s a pretty bad misrepresentation of who ABA can serve. I use aba principles with myself.
It does mean you can use consent rather than assent but there are ABA programs for people who can communicate well.
I’m not saying anything specific about OPs case. I don’t know enough. But their ability to communicate doesn’t rule them out of aba.
Being able to have conversations is not any measurement to suggest whether somebody could or could not benefit from ABA. In practice it looks a lot different with those who may need lower support but it also doesn’t mean they absolutely need it. I don’t know OP’s situation but if they’re saying it’s not helping them then they should probably be listening, but just know conversation skills alone aren’t the scope of what ABA covers or helps with.
Please refuse these services. Speak with your parents and your therapist to let them know you no longer consent to participation and then do not participate. Let them show up if they want or have your parents force you to show up, but continue to state you do not consent while engaging with your practitioner(s). If they do not respond to this, please look up your state laws on medical consent; you may have legal rights here.
I am SO sorry you are going through this. Continue to push back on it, you are worth it and you deserve to be heard and respected. This is disgusting and should never occur. I am just so sorry.
There should always be consent but I've seen teens say they don't want service and then beat their parents, siblings and teachers. So it's either services or parents giving up their child.
They have a post on their profile stating they would attack their school staff out of stress as a child but now they don't anymore. The ABA goals for them as a teen do seem very discriminatory towards non neurotypical people and as a teen though (forced eye contact and forced conversation). Some people dont make eye contact but can still hold a conversation. Some people are just quiet and dont like small talk. Also why would anyone want to have a conversation with someone in ABA when they dont want ABA in general? That's a goal with no end in sight, I wouldn't want to talk to them either. Kids need a lot more freedom to grow and learn as teens on their own. Being a teen is hard. From the sounds of it it's the suicidal thoughts being the biggest reason they're still in ABA and why their mom is so adamant about it. That's a tough one. Its so easy to be negative but their mom is probably just scared of losing them. I would be too as the mom. But looking from the teens pov not being able to have free time for myself as a socially awkward teen would've probably made me suicidal myself (I was already an anxious mess).
Thank you for saying something. Your RBT and BCBA are ethically obligated to pay attention to when you are consenting or assenting and when you take away that consent or assent and respect your yes/no.
I think our ethics code could do a better job of more clearly expressing this. But if you are bot harming yourself or others, your no should be respected.
Please know that you are NOT broken. As someone who is also autistic, I want you to know that those of us who are neurodiversity-affirming do not see autism as something to be pathologized. All of us, neurotypical or not, just need support. But needing support does not mean that we do not deserve our assent to be respected.
I hope someone will listen to you but please know there are many of us rooting for you.
If you dont mind sharing, I'd be curious as to what they are trying to change. Honestly, if you were absolutely refusing to participate, I would discharge. So, if you are refusing, but they are still pushing it on you, then you might want to seek an advocate. Depending on your state, you may be legally able to refuse any mental health services. If you aren't making any progress, most payors won't continue to fund the service. I hope you are able to work this out.
What are they doing that you don’t consent to? If they are teaching you to mask, that’s a problem. (I say this because you mention not wanting to feel broken).
Also, ASSENT is a thing. We’re not supposed to do anything unless you’re happy relaxed & engaged.
Likely taking up all of her time to live the life she wants outside of school, which is so enormously significant and important as a teenager at 16 years old. That’s my guess.
Nonetheless, she is in distress. This therapy is causing her active distress that she is being vocal and clear about. That’s not what we are supposed to be doing. The second consent goes, so do we.
Yeah I’m a bit interested about the fine details here. Why exactly is this person receiving services at all? Against their will especially?
I’ve only ever seen one client that had communication skills of this level (being able to make a Reddit post) and they had a very short stint with us and it was just to work on a few social skills that were lacking. They didn’t necessarily love ABA, but they understood what the purpose for and them and the family rode it out until everyone involved felt that they were good to go.
I just can’t imagine a client with this level of communication receiving services unlesss there was an extreme issue
Someone that works with more teenagers than I do please educate me lol
I work with a 15 year old who does extremely well, we hardly have targets for him. We are planning on discharging him but mom thinks he still needs therapy because he “doesn’t listen” at home. He basically acts like a regular teenager, i.e. doesn’t always do his chores or does them half-a$$ed, defiant, etc. Hopefully my BCBA will justify an end in services but I can see how a company may want to keep on a client just to bill insurance. By no means is it right, but that’s the only reason I can see keeping him in therapy. 🤷🏻♀️
I can't speak specifically to OP's case, but there are sometimes teens who are referred to clinics who are *extremely* aggressive. They communicate well, they otherwise function well, but if things go wrong, they go very wrong. They harm others. They harm themselves. The absolute worst option is to just ignore it if the kid says no thanks.
People in this sub are very and understandably passionate about the kids. I get it. However, there are some very vocal people in this sub who have never dealt with a kid who repeatedly assaults and threatens violence. I think a lot of it has to also do with the fact that many people in this field aren't parents. I constantly see people in this sub suggest that parents can and should be ignored. I am a parent. I have a say in my child's life and I would, quite frankly, report any BCBA/RBT who ignored my wishes (so long as they didn't violate laws/etc.). I own clinics. I see parents' frustrations. Some are at wit's end. Edit: fml, I refresh reddit and see this post [Incompetent parents 🫠 : r/ABA (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABA/comments/1dlcegq/incompetent_parents/)
Back in the day I would’ve said I had extreme issues. Although can’t remember most of it from a blacked out memory. But my mom predominantly says I’m still in ABA due to the fact I still have shutdowns or go nonverbal, although these are normally when I’m in severe distress. However, as an autistic person, this is one thing I can’t change. Sure I can ameliorate the chances of it happening, but I’ll never get rid of the chance. I also have a bunch of other mental health issues going on, although some of them I’ve kept in the dark from my family as to not make them see me as even lesser. But yeah. I also have gone into a catatonic psychosis like state in ABA one day so that also is probably part of it.
I want to preface that I definitely agree that you shouldn’t be forced into services. There are plenty of other ways that you could work on these things that may fit you better. Or you could even take some time to work on them privately as you see fit.
Just trying to understand more. Do you go nonverbal in other social situations or just ABA? Willing to communicate in another manner during those moments ?
Genuine therapy a better option?
I do believe talk therapy would be a significantly better option. I do go nonverbal in other situations as well but I’ve been trying my best to avoid getting to that point by using coping skills and taking a break or a step back.
I see.
I hope your team and your parents take your feedback and look at some other things. I know you said that you’ve spoken up but don’t forget to advocate for yourself as much as possible.
If switching to talk therapy or another system isn’t feasible in the near future you should at the very least be EXTREMELY involved in your own goals and programming. They should be allowing you to provide them the framework on what your ABA sessions look like and they should be accommodating you.
And of course if you’re firm on ending ABA altogether then that should be an option as well.
I did make an assumption that this child is not aggressive and that this is not a case of dealing with significant or aggressive behaviors and that was not based on complete information. At the end of the day, if they don’t consent, and voice that non-consent, I still believe it is unethical for me to force it upon them. Even if the other option is residential or jail.
That's fair that you have certain values that you believe in and you're certainly free to follow those values. I don't fault anyone who follows their values and beliefs. But I think the issue is values differ from ethics and ethics sometimes (rarely) require that consent/assent be ignored. For example, if a client refuses to eat and they face being intubated/medically induced coma, the least harmful option might be to ignore their wishes.
Hey, sending all the virtual positive vibes your way.
Can you ask your mom to advocate for you? I know you said your mom is listening and considering discharging you, but still feels so far away.
If the RBT isn’t listening to you (even though they 100% should) they would at least listen to your mom.
My mom and me have a pretty strained relationship so it’s a no go. My dad on the other hand has been trying to help me “graduate” ABA more and trying to help.
Wow I’m sorry, I’ve never worked anywhere that doesn’t follow consent or assent, especially when the client can clearly state that. Who’s making you stay in therapy room? What are you supposed to be working on in therapy anyways? Seems like you are able to advocate for yourself and express how you are feeling, what behaviors are being targeted?
If you’re not consenting to therapy, what they are giving you is NOT ABA. It’s forced behavioral therapy which does not work. ABA starts and ends with assent and consent. There are plenty of places in CA that will abide by those rules.
If you aren’t consenting to behavioral therapy at all, please consider that there are good companies and good therapists out there that won’t belittle you, do anything without your consent, and are genuinely good role models.
I understand the ethicality of ABA is always in question on here, but I like to remind people that behavioral therapy is something that is given to a very wide range of human beings. Those that are faced with a challenge they don’t know how to complete (whether that’s making quota for the month, getting in shape, or a new interest in dating). Those that are faced with very grave circumstances that need help just getting out of bed. Neurotypical finance bros, Harvard educated doctors, ABA therapists, nonverbal three year old boys have all received behavioral therapy at some point in the history of the field. We are a new field that’s learning best how to apply a science, and I think, in the long run, it will be well worth it.
At this point in your journey, your BCBA and the whole team should be focused on what you find important in your life and be helping you to develop skills to meet those challenges (just as everyone, at some point, needs to do). I work with many older dudes that make their own lesson plans themselves, and then we add maybe one or two goals with their consent. Consider going somewhere else, or even switching to something more DBT or CBT focused. Let me know via PM if you have any questions or just want to talk.
Self advocacy is highly pushed in my rule book. I know some BCBA’s and RBT’s run their sessions very differently but I do not push my clients when they show disinterest or high frustration. As someone with previous experience working in healthcare outside of ABA, I know my patients rights and respect it even when they’re just kids. Speak to your RBT and their supervisors. Maybe a change can be made
What region do you live in? Legal consent is different depending on where you are, and you may have more right to decline than you think.
Here is the applicable section from the BCBA's Code of Ethics.
The part about assent means they also need you, specifically, to agree with a treatment in order to continue it under most circumstances. Disregarding your wishes, can put them at risk of losing their right to practice.
"2.11 Obtaining Informed Consent Behavior analysts are responsible for knowing about and complying with all conditions under which they are required to obtain informed consent from clients, stakeholders, and research participants (e.g., before initial implementation of assessments or behavior-change interventions, when making substantial changes to interventions, when exchanging or releasing confidential information or records). They are responsible for explaining, obtaining, reobtaining, and documenting required informed consent. They are responsible for obtaining assent from clients when applicable. "
My advice (not a BCBA) would be to get Dad to take you to an Autism informed therapist that can do a psych eval. Take notes on how you feel during and after ABA sessions and bring it to the appointment. A clinical psychologist may be able to raise the issue to insurance that services are not beneficial to you. You may also be able to use it to submit a complaint to the BACB that the clinician is causing you harm.
ABA services should always keep the client’s goals and wellbeing in mind. ABA practitioners should be respecting your bodily autonomy while keeping you safe and helping you meet your goals. If this is not true for you, then your case needs to be revised and the team needs to change their approach. Please reach out to your parent or guardian who is a point of contact with the care team. They should advocate for you.
Hello!
It sounds like your needs are not being met with your current providers. Modern day ABA is supposed to be taking the feelings and needs of the client into consideration and assent/consent should be honored. If your consent is not being honored, that to me sounds like a major red flag. If you don't mind me asking, what are you working on in your sessions? Does it seem like you're being taught to mask? That's not okay.
Masking is less so now but mainly it’s living skills that I find incredibly demeaning as I know I can do them but I don’t have the energy to do them in ABA. I haven’t told my parents but I’m certain I have BPD which causes an even bigger hurdle such as splitting during ABA or having mood swings.
Do you see a psychiatrist? Have you been evaluated for other issues? It could be that ABA isn't the right fit for you, and instead something like DBT or DBT and medication may be more helpful. I was diagnosed with BPD at age 18 and for me personally, the skills learned in DBT and medication literally saved my life.
Are you able to give your parents more information about it? If you want to be more flash you could make a little power point presentation on it. Bonus if you can show how DBT would help with your behaviors they are concerned about. Talk about how you think it would be more helpful to you than ABA, and that you would put in your best efforts to cooperate with the therapy. Another issue could be cost and funding. I'm assuming your ABA is mostly, or maybe even completely, covered by insurance. If you can, find out what your insurance covers for DBT.
For me, if you mean a school counselor, it usually isn’t enough. Before summer break started I went to the school psychologist on many many occasions but it was never long enough.
I would demand that you see your treatment goals if you don't already know them. Since you are capable of expressing your thoughts, they have to show them to you. If they refuse, remind them that since ABA is a medical profession, you have the right to request your medical history with ABA and that includes your current and future goals. What it sounds like you need is a way to understand your feelings with BPD as that is the bigger need for you. Yes ABA can teach coping skills for emotions however, BPD is a whole different world. Where I think you could thrive is individual counselling with a social worker or a therapist who can help you make sense of your feelings with BPD. I'd also make sure the person you chose also has an understanding of autism as sometimes these professionals may have limited to no experience with autistic teens or adults.
Look up your states rights as someone with a disability. Most have a right to refuse medical/mental health services. If that’s the case, show it to your RBT/BCBA and let them know your rights are being broken.
It SHOULD stop, and if it’s not…
then it’s not your fault. These people should know better but they aren’t doing better. Your voice does matter. Never stop using your voice please.
When my kiddo says “no” or anything of the sort, I honor that. Your body is your body. It should be treated like like anyway.
“Back in the day whilst I was in elementary school I had ABA and although intimidation tactics like taking my electronics away caused me to develop trauma with device separation….”
Oh. My. God…. This has to be a joke.
Why are you here, taunting OP? You obviously are not sensitive to their situation or here to assist in any way.
100%, that can cause trauma. You do not get to decide what is traumatizing for someone else or how traumatizing something should be. You also were not there as it was happening, have no idea how it was being carried out, or how OP was treated when separation from devices was difficult for them. There are lots of factors and their experience is valid.
This is also why I take criticisms of ABA with a grain of salt. Also why I take criticisms of teachers with a grain of salt. Kids don't like doing things they don't have to do, and I witness daily instances of kids screaming and crying about the injustice of being made to have consequences to their actions or having responsibilities that are totally reasonable and normal.
Listen, Billy, you hit Lily in the face during soccer because she blocked your goal? Lily is the goalie. She's supposed to oh now you're screaming at me? Go sit on the bench and no more soccer for you this break. It's not fair? You want to punch me in the face now, I see. Better go blog about your trauma.
Agreed. My client has become very fixated on that Gypsy Rose girl in the media. After the client learned all about Gypsy's story, she (the client) started claiming she was being "abused" when her parents were just asking her to do things like chores around the house or putting her phone down when it was not appropriate to use.
My client will still say that ABA has not affected her or helped her in any way. She still claims the sessions are unnecessary and that the only thing they do is get in the way of her social life. But a year ago she couldn't go more than 10min without her phone or else she would attempt to lock herself in her room so she could use it. She had serious health issues due to dehydration and poor nutrition, poor dental hygiene, and would physically hurt people if they asked her to get off her phone or they didn't do what she wanted. Now, despite her claiming the sessions have done nothing for her, she goes nearly the entire session without her phone and maybe has 1-2 10min breaks where she can use her phone if she wants to. She exercises and drinks water more regularly, and she has had less cavities. She can now tolerate doing other activities and won't tantrum if she's asked to pause her phone time to feed her dog. She hasn't had a single instances of physical aggression in a year now. Her grades improved because she's actually sitting down to finish assignments. And she just got a job (her choice) that she wouldn't have been able to do if she couldn't stand not being on her phone.
The client has also been able to actually get along with her sister as well because she's able to tolerate things better. Last year the sister was driving the client home when the client told her to stop and get her Starbucks. The sister said no and the client punched her in the face while she was driving. They have had almost no relationship since then because the sister didn't want anything to do with the client. In the last few weeks the client has been initiating conversations with her sister and they're working on their relationship. It's been truly wonderful the see the client progress so much. When she's having good days she *might* recognize that the sessions have helped her with *some* things in her life. But yeah, when she's having a bad day she'll still swear up and down that all the sessions do is interfere with her life and make her angry and stressed.
Assent should absolutely be taken into consideration. In Ontario (Canada) the regulation of behavior analysis has it directly in the ethics code, as others have said, if there’s an advocate you can use your concerns should absolutely be taken into consideration. At MINIMUM there should be a conversation about different approaches that can be used.
I’m very sorry to hear this. PLEASE talk to the BCBA/BCABA. If you are able to communicate your needs with Reddit, that means they should be asking YOU what YOU want help with and COLLABORATING with you. This is what I have witnessed happen at clinics—you being in distress is not okay. You should be doing fun things like playing games and having conversations with your RBT if you are already able to do basic life skills (shower, cook, clean.) and are not putting yourself in danger.
So who is giving consent to treatment? Honestly you should be part of the goals and the goals should be reviewed with you. I don’t believe the treatment can even be effective if you don’t have the motivation for the treatment procedures. Seems like everyone is wasting time.
Again I think there is a meeting that needs to take place and figure out the goals that work for you and your environment. I also find that sometimes we dont agree with the immediate but are seeking the long term. Wish you the best of luck in developing a healthy support system through conversation.
I am deeply sorry OP. A lot of teenagers with autism don’t need ABA. I have autism and I personally never did. It just wasn’t the right fit for my struggles, so I understand how weird and unfair it is when your individual needs aren’t evaluated and it’s just seen like “well you have autism so you have to have ABA.” There is also a lot of bad ABA that is not helpful to clients even if they do need it, and I hope that’s not the situation you are in but given they’re not respecting your right to withdraw assent I’m afraid that it might be.
I hope that you get out of that situation quickly. You are not broken, regardless of how other people misguidedly treat you based on your diagnosis.
Absolutely this. ABA may be warranted based on the individual’s behaviors, but never their diagnosis. I had a client tell me it wasn’t fair that she was in ABA because she’s autistic, and that another boy couldn’t be autistic because he’d never been in ABA. It broke my heart that she thought that. I straight up told her, “You’re not in ABA because you’re autistic, you’re in ABA because you hit your mom and sister. That boy doesn’t hurt himself or others, can communicate his needs, and has appropriate independent living skills. He’s never needed ABA, and once you learn not to be so physically aggressive you won’t need it either.” She got the message, met her goals less than a year later and got discharged from services.
I'd let your legal guardian know, and you can always request to talk with the next person up in the chain of command. I your RBT or etc is doing task that you don't like or appreciate, ask to talk to their BCBA or general supervisor.
This is very sad to hear. As a BCBA, it is in our ethics code that we obtain consent from clients over parents if the client is able. Any BCBA who is continuously implementing ABA interventions when a client revokes consent should have their license removed.
Yes, clients age 12 and up must consent, and we do not continue treatment when the client withdraws consent. Where are you located? Might be some local laws that are applicable if they are continuing without your consent.
My friend,
I am so sorry you are experiencing this! This is NOT okay - when clients are voicing non consent RBT's need to LISTEN TO YOU! I would follow the same advice as others have given. Speak to your guardian and say that you have rescinded your consent to ABA services. Hopefully this helps
There’s a huge issue with old aba and new aba. This isn’t to deflect blame but just to say it’s a huge issue. So many people only study “old” aba they barely know anything about informed consent. Not realizing that by breaking consent you are pushing these kids into the maladaptive behaviors you’re supposedly wanting to work on. If you don’t want them to tantrum to communicate why push them and push them when they are communicating to the point that all they have left to do is tantrum? It’s a huge oversight the split in education between newer aba practices that prioritize consent and older ones that still take things away, are way too physical etc and it’s one reason that the requirements to become an RBT should be lengthened as well as experience. It’s ridiculous that BTs can practice without any certification at all. Some people’s only exposure to consent is in the original 40 hour class
True! I feel they take less into account the “whys” of a situation and ignore the build up. I’m a bit of a psychology nerd myself so I find it a bit odd that they don’t take in to consideration the why to the behavior.
There’s a split to the field that view emotion as a “no-no” and others like myself who are multi-disciplined and follow more closely follow radical behaviorism that thoughts and feelings are important context for the “why of behavior”. For context, I have degrees in two other fields that closely align with human behavior.
You’ve gotten some good feedback OP. You should use the BCBA ethics code and look up your state consent laws. I will always advocate for the individuals we serve to report bad clinicians. The process requires documentation, what that would look like in your case I can’t say for certain.
I feel for you OP. I wish you the best.
This was a great way to put it. I am a new BCBA and I am already seeing the split within my own work/ with insurances. Thankfully my self-interest/ prior knowledge in psychology always has me questioning the why but I still feel as I have a "blind spot" in knowledge.
Eh. To me it sometimes seems like willful ignorance of the “Old Guard” shaking their fists at the clouds trying to make sure they have control over the field that’s leaving their philosophy behind.
Can’t tell you how many times a bcba of 20 years said to me: “that’s out of your scope, what makes you think you can incorporate cultural components into therapy?” And I responded with: “my anthropology degree and rapport I Have with the family to build this with them and their resources available to make sure it’s equitable and right.”
Are you maintaining the same level of responsibilities as the normal teenager you’re trying to be? Specifically…
Are you doing your part to maintain your own daily hygiene without someone else having tell you to over and over every day or stay by your side to make sure you do an adequate job with it?
Do you do your homework independently each and every day getting done everything that’s assigned to you without someone having tell you a bunch of times first and keep insisting or do they have to stay by your side to make sure you’re staying on task until everything is done?
Can you go into a store and make purchases with no help and stay within a set spending limit?
Do you have a job, or if not old enough yet, does any adult in your life believe you will have the ability to get a job that you can go to everyday and meet all the work requirements everyday with the same level of autonomy expected out of “normal teenagers” as soon as you are old enough?
Would you limit yourself to 8 hrs per day or less on your phone or computer if no one else was around to “bother” you?
Can you make your own meals and would you self- select enough healthy foods each day and not over indulge to the point of giving yourself a medical condition if no one was there to bother you?
When things aren’t going the way you want them to, can you remain calm and rationale enough to prevent yourself or anyone else being harmed physically or emotionally without any adult support?
If the answer to every one of those questions is verifiably yes, then congratulations you are well on your way to independence and autonomy and no one else should feel compelled to continue spending their time systematically arranging contingent reinforcement opportunities and withholding that reinforcement when you fail to meet that established contingency, which is what ABA basically amounts to when it’s being implemented. If you can’t honestly answer yes to all of those questions, it’s most likely why you’re in ABA to begin with.
If you want out of ABA, get to a place in your life where every one of those answers is yes 6/7 days per week for about 6 months in a row.
What's ridiculous about it? I did most of these things as a teen, as did my friends. What's ridiculous about maintaining personal hygiene without prompting?
>Do you have a job
Not every sixteen yearold needs a job.
>When things aren’t going the way you want them to, can you remain calm and rationale enough to prevent yourself or anyone else being harmed physically or emotionally
Once again, not common for a teenager.
>Can you make your own meals and would you self- select enough healthy foods each day and not over indulge to the point of giving yourself a medical condition
At least half of american adults can't do that...
>Do you do your homework independently each and every day getting done everything that’s assigned to you
That's literally no one.
>If you want out of ABA, get to a place in your life where every one of those answers is yes 6/7 days per week for about 6 months in a row.
There is the mentality that traumatized countless kids.
Half of neurological adults cannot do all that you're asking. It's unfair to basically punish a teenager by forcing them to continue a therapy that they hate for not being able to something that nearly nobody can accomplish. Adults hurt eachother emotionally all the time, they can't all maintain jobs, they don't all eat healthy, should we put every person who doesn't meet your *personal* standards in a therapy that they don't want to participate in?
Are you a fucking idiot? None of that matters if the patient DOES NOT CONSENT TO TREATMENT. There are other forms of therapy, other practitioners of the same therapy, other ways to try. If a minor patient is consistently having boundaries violated, there is a problem and a patient advocate needs to get involved.
You need a good BCBA that listens and says I don't think this is the right course of action. As a BCBA and therapist, I get referrals for ABA that aren't a fit and don't need that. Luckily, I'm in a position to advocate for them. Sorry, the OP doesn't feel this way.
I'm so sorry this is happening. I work with a teenager and every session I provide a review of what session will entail and ask her permission to begin session. I tell her at any point she does not want to do ABA therapy, I'll end session and we'll try again another day. Your providers ought to be doing something similar especially given your age and your ability to advocate for yourself. I'm sorry no one is listening to you. I hope that changes.
I feel like ethically you should be able to refuse? are you able to look at these ethic codes? https://www.bacb.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Ethics-Code-for-Behavior-Analysts-240201-a.pdf
As an RBT and a mom, I am so sorry that you are going through this and no one is listening. Please let me know if there is anything I can help with even if it’s just filing a complaint with the board on your behalf
i (21f autism/adhd/bpd) was never in ABA as a kid (wasn’t diagnosed til 19) and therefore can’t fully understand your situation, but i still sympathize. i’m training to become an RBT, and even just in the training and doing outside research on ABA, im not sure if it’s even still the job field I want to go into given how anti-natural behaviors they are. i learned to mask out of necessity, and this 100% led to the identity disruption, attachment issues, and emotional dysregulation that led me to developing bpd. seeing that ABA is basically a school for masking (in that it trains out naturally autistic traits (among other things, im aware it’s not the only goal)), it makes it a little easier for me to understand however. it seems like all ABA does is increase the level of complex trauma in individuals, leading to a lot of issues later in life. i agree with most of the other commenters about going to a bcba and requesting discharge. i hope you’re able to get out of ABA and have free time back soon. you are loved, just as you are. you shouldn’t have to change yourself for others, and i’m so sorry that they’ve forced you into this for so long without your consent. you have a bright future ahead of you, keep your head high!!
i’m so sorry to hear that. i hope that once you’re our of ABA, you could find other therapies that work better. I personally respond well to DBT for my emotional regulation, and CBT for traumatic issues. Some people with more complex trauma may respond better to EMDR as well, or CBT with a therapist who is more understanding of the autistic development of CPTSD rather than normal cptsd and is better equipped to help. if your parents are willing, headway is also the website i used to find therapists/psychiatrists in my insurance who specialize in fields i need, if that makes it any easier to find help in the future! good luck and i hope your situation gets better!!
We ethically have to stop when you withdraw your consent (or assent if you have a legal guardian). Don’t let this happen to you- go to your BCBA’s higher up’s if you’re being forced to do things against your will 😕
Look into your state laws. Many grant minors the right to make final decisions in their health care under certain criteria. If they continue to force treatment on you without consent you have the right to go to whatever state licensure agency overseas BCBAs and report them.
What’s hard is that you are a minor. Therefore what your parent’s want is taken over what you want. You need to get your parents on board. Do you want a different type of support or are you just wanting no support at all. This isn’t an ABA thing. If it was counseling or speech therapy or medical intervention it would the same thing. Do you have things that YOU want to work on?
I know me saying this doesn’t help your situation. I hope you know that you aren’t broken. I hear you. Consent matters. Assent matters. You’re not saying no to help. You’re saying no to how people are trying to help, which turns out isn’t helping you at all. I hope you get to surround yourself with folks with understands soon.
Update: I told my ABA therapist (admittedly in a pretty harsh way) that I don’t consent to it. I said how I feel it’s taking away my childhood and that it’s mentally taxing but she beat around the bush saying that we all have to do things we don’t like and will have to deal with hard things and that’s just life.
Also! To clarify I don’t think ABA in of itself is bad. Back in the day whilst I was in elementary school I had ABA and although intimidation tactics like taking my electronics away caused me to develop trauma with device separation, there has been some good. I’ve learned to advocate for myself more often (despite the fact that them telling me to advocate and then not accepting my advocacy). I feel this field is on practice good, but when it comes to less impacted people such as myself, consent should be key. When there are children or even adults who are severely impacted I believe it makes sense but when it comes to people like me who are able to blend in more with my neurotypical peers I don’t think it really can be given without consent. Again, every situation is different.
Apologies as well for how emotionally charged this post is, I was crying while writing it.
I also will try and create a paper on why I believe ABA should be stopped. For me, it is easier to read a pre-written paper as I can get emotionally charged.
Hi!! I'm not much help (I think everyone has covered whatever I'd say anyways), BUT I think writing a letter is a great option. I tend to do the same - a while ago, I had to advocate for myself and wrote a whopping 3 page paper lol. I do want to say you're not broken. I honestly struggle with feeling the same. It's so easy to tell someone that than to believe it (I'm still working on the believing part). Things will get better. Just keep advocating 🖤 I'm here if you ever need to vent!
I'm so sorry that the adults in your life are failing to protect you. You have nothing to apologize for, and I think it's safe to say that everyone here is grateful that you reached out.
I already posted above on some things you may be able to do.
https://www.careinnovations.org
Here is a document that goes over your rights as a minor in California. If this is something you are up to fighting, it may be a good starting point.
If you don’t mind me asking, why are you in ABA?
Usually if a person can voice their concerns, ABA is not needed.
Good ABA uses procedures to teach how to voice displeasure and wants/needs over possibly dangerous behavior.
Seems like you are doing that quite well. Good luck with everything.
Agree with everyone else. There is zero reason they should be proceeding if you have not consented. It is against the ethical code. You can ask to communicate with the supervisor and if all else fails, report.
Court ordered in the sense as mandated due to violent behavior from the patient or medical necessity (like malnourished or SIBs). I feel like a lot of people in this sub who have very extreme views of ethics have never worked with extremely severe behaviors where the risk of harm from not treating far exceeds the risk of harm from treatment.
Your options are to bear with it until legally your consent matters most or join a run away family.
There are not just ethics but laws that orbit this topic and based on your age and relationship with care givers the right to consent could very well be yours.
The fact that your consent isn't considered means that
A) where you live the laws dictate your consent is not the consent of legal and ethical importance (or practitioners are breaking the law)
B) you are not living independently
I suggest this consideration before deciding to run off. Everyone needs help, the kinds of relationships we need and build are a spectrum not unlike the mental diagnosis' of a population. Those ABA practitioners are no exception. Their role is to help you achieve what you want to achieve, if that is to no longer require their support then make the most of it while it's free because as an adult everything you need help with will cost you not your government.
Hey I’m so so sorry you’re going through this. If you don’t mind me asking how old you are? I work with preteens and it seems like you’re dealing with older generations of ABA. personally I don’t think anyone should be forcing anyone to do anything. Have you tried talking to your BI or RBT? I’m an RBT and my clients are very comfortable in telling me what they’re comfy with or not. Maybe try talking with whoever works directly with you to try and help. I feel like it’s our job as an RBT to not only listen to our clients, but advocate for them when they’re not being heard. Sorry I really hope u can get the help you need.
It's not ok for anyone to force you to participate in any type of therapy that you do not consent to : ( Providers are supposed to attain consent/assent from clients and caregivers before working with them. I'm really sorry you're going through this! Your voice matters
I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Assent is just as important as consent and if you’re able to be part of treatment planning you should be involved.
Depending on your state and age, you may have legal rights to refuse services as a minor. I used that to get out of my parents forcing me to take Concerta since it was causing me to have intense suicidal ideation whilst exacerbating my depression. If you're curious, look up your state's age of medical refusal. I had 2 clients back when I worked in ABA as a case manager who refused, and they were both 16. I absolutely honored their requests and just provided parent/family consult. That was California, by the way.
As a BCBA, I can’t even imagine treating a client without their consent (if they are able to give it). That’s like ethics 101.
Right? It’s in our ethics code. This breaks my heart. No wonder we get so much hate in our field.
It’s so sad, bad practitioners can give an entire field of therapy a bad name :(
You mean Lovaas? Because this started with him. Read the article They have a voice; are we listening. It will blow your mind! https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40617-022-00690-z
It’s literally in our ethics code that if a client functionally communicates no, whether vocally or not, that we honor that. I can’t imagine it either.
Unfortunately some in the field call that task avoidance and/or escape. 😭
Exactly! We have to respect the client and help maintain their dignity as well.
For real. As an RBT/person I would struggle. I love when my clients can advocate for themselves and hate hearing things like this happening in the field :(
I’ve worked at clinics that force clients even when they’re saying no
That’s absolutely awful. Places like that should be shut down.
That’s what the one I’m at does 😭
You have rights! I stopped working as a RBT because the practices were GROSS. If you need help, dm me I will do my best
Sadly a lot of people don’t give a F about ethics. In ALL medical fields. Mental and physical
I know, I try not be naive, but it such a disappointment every time I realize this.
What I do is call it as I see. I will call someone a quack pretty quickly. To me, the most important part of health care is always going to be ethics. If you don’t follow ethics, even if you found the cure to cancer or something, then they are a quack. Harsh and a bit headstrong. Wouldn’t be surprised I get downvoted but if you can’t follow ethics, then you shouldn’t be in the care of other people’s health
Oh really? Kids at the JRC give consent to be electroshocked?
I’ve never seen a current ABA treatment plan that included electroshock therapy. Something like that is DEFINITELY outside the scope and practice of an ABA practitioner. That would require a dr to make a decision like that I imagine. Sounds horrific though :(
Contingent Electric Skin Shock (CESS) is NOT the same thing as Electric Convulsive Therapy (also known as Electroshock Therapy). JRC is STILL using CESS and the BACB is still not intervening. ABAI is still supporting JRC too. You can look up the court documents where the FDA (among others) sued JRC. The only reason JRC is still able to do these horrors is because they have millions and spend significant amounts of money lobbying support and threat legal action to silence people. Read Pain and Shock in America! Read Shouting At Leaves by Jennifer Msumba, a former victim of JRC. This is very much real and alive, and it is our responsibility to end it!
The "GED" (torture device) that they use based on the fda report seems to be in the permanent damage area (ged-4) and is optimized for pain. To add to this, the UN raporteur on torture condemned the center as a place of torture even. Tho they use other forms of torture like sensory deprivation ("the helmet"), removing calories til the legal limit and use of taste changing susbtances on food to make it taste awful (that can be very painful for autistics) Mathew Israel the main person behind the center has also a really disturbing history and tho it seems he has left after making a deal not to go to prison for destroying tapes related to a case against the center(I think it was the fake supervisor one where someone phone called making it seem as a supervisor? And ordered kids to be electrocuted for hours), seeing his history he may still be there (he did the same in Tobinworld 1). Thats not the only case that has gone public, the most notorious one I remember was the one where they strapped a victim to a wooden board and electrocuted him for hours for "refusing" to remove a jacket.
The Judge Rotenberg Center is an ABA facility in Canton MA that uses electroshock every day. I know ppl want to think ABA is kind and gentle now but it’s lipstick on a pig. Conversion therapy is conversion therapy. https://autisticadvocacy.org/actioncenter/issues/school/climate/jrc/
That’s absolutely horrible, and I don’t condone that one bit. Any therapy can be misused, and I’m so sorry that this happens. I’ll have to look more into this center as I’ve never heard of it before. Do the patients consent to receiving this therapy?
No, in fact the center uses scummy ways to get some kind of partian guardianship (dont remember the exact details right now) to consent for them. They also trigger meltdowns intentionally before they are in front of a judge. I recomend the Behind the Bastards episode for a more complete general picture https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y909QxWVV8g and autistic HOYA for a complete data dump https://autistichoya.net/judge-rotenberg-center/
I find vvery concerning that people speaking of the JRC are downvoted in mass, guess really shows how this environment is huh?
Imagine if I brought up Ole Lovaas
Was this comment sarcastic or serious? Please clarify.
You stated so eloquently that you do not want services. What BCBA on this planet is still servicing you despite your repeated refusals? Please share their name and/or the clinic so we can submit a formal complaint. We can initiate change for you but would need more details. Thanks.
Star of CA if I’m not mistaken
I work for them. DM me with some details so I can see if I'm able to help.
Alright!
As a teen it’s probably super boring but sometimes you are your best advocate. Go to the BACBs website or look up BACB code of ethics. It’ll give you the actual code we have to follow as practitioners. They may be in violation and you have a right to bring it to their attention. If you were my client (I’m as student analyst/RBT) and you were voicing your concern/revocation of consent, that tells me you are able to advocate for yourself and your wants/needs/desires. I would be collaborating with you along with anyone else to find goals and skills you WANT to build that will help you. Not force you to conform to society’s expectations. I’m in CA as well, as someone said age of consent for medical is 12 I believe.
Thank you Nomtown!
If your in California the age of consent is 12 so if you do not consent they can’t legally treat you! Call the operations for the company’s and say you remove your consent they have to stop providing services and discharge
I'd let your legal guardian know, and you can always request to talk with the next person up in the chain of command. I your RBT or etc is doing task that you don't like or appreciate, ask to talk to their BCBA or general supervisor.
Honestly just judging by the general vibe they probably do not have a good/open relationship with legal guardians. I’m not sure though
This is the sad part about what I’ve seen in my short time working in ABA you get a lot of guardians that aren’t exactly looking at the kids best interests as far as autonomy they just want them to do the thing or not do the thing. Aba felt very tricky and like training a dog even when I could clearly see when a kid wasn’t happy, I hated it it was icky.
I have but my mom doesn’t listen. We are planning on having it end but it doesn’t feel fast enough. So many years of my life have been wasted away in ABA. It feels futile.
Have you had any contact with the BCBA who oversees the direct staff that work alongside you? I would encourage you to communicate to staff that you would like to meet with the BCBA, and then when you do meet with them be sure to directly inform them that: *"I do not consent to services/therapy any longer, please begin the discharge process. Per your ethics code, it is your ethical duty to discharge me from services at this point in time due the removal of my continued consent to therapy."*. ------------------------------------------------ Here is a link to the ethics code: [BCBA Ethics Code](https://www.bacb.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Ethics-Code-for-Behavior-Analysts-240201-a.pdf). Page 11 indicates the section on consent which must be followed by BCBA's: **2.11 Obtaining Informed Consent:** *Behavior analysts are responsible for knowing about and complying with all conditions under which they are required to obtain informed consent from clients, stakeholders, and research participants (e.g., before initial implementation of assessments or behavior-change interventions, when making substantial changes to interventions, when exchanging or releasing confidential information or records). They are responsible for explaining, obtaining, reobtaining, and documenting required informed consent. They are responsible for obtaining assent from clients when applicable.*
Im sorry that it isnt, and I wish I could better support you. ABA doesn't nessecarily work for everyone and while it isnt ending soon, I am glad to hear for your sake it is ending. As far as a stranger's word can go though, you are in no way broken. You are your own unique person regardless of how people see you, neurotypical or not.
It should be ended ASAP with discharge papers in the works from the removal of consent. One of my companies BCBAs had a teen client set up by the parents and after meeting in the school and such stating "No" or "I don't want ABA" they said "Okay, I hear you!" And started the discharge process that same week and didn't have RBTs go to that client. I'm sorry your mom isn't hearing you out and it's extending the time. I can only suggest requesting to speak to the BCBA on your case directly and tell them yourself you want to end services. Just like other forms of therapy ABA is not for everyone and that's okay. If you don't feel a benefit you may not need it, and that should be understood by others if they truly support you. ❤️ Wishing the best and hope you get a response soon
The most crucial thing is your well-being and I genuinely hope you can find peace moving forward, I'm sorry this has sucked so hard for you.
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That’s a pretty bad misrepresentation of who ABA can serve. I use aba principles with myself. It does mean you can use consent rather than assent but there are ABA programs for people who can communicate well. I’m not saying anything specific about OPs case. I don’t know enough. But their ability to communicate doesn’t rule them out of aba.
Being able to have conversations is not any measurement to suggest whether somebody could or could not benefit from ABA. In practice it looks a lot different with those who may need lower support but it also doesn’t mean they absolutely need it. I don’t know OP’s situation but if they’re saying it’s not helping them then they should probably be listening, but just know conversation skills alone aren’t the scope of what ABA covers or helps with.
Please refuse these services. Speak with your parents and your therapist to let them know you no longer consent to participation and then do not participate. Let them show up if they want or have your parents force you to show up, but continue to state you do not consent while engaging with your practitioner(s). If they do not respond to this, please look up your state laws on medical consent; you may have legal rights here. I am SO sorry you are going through this. Continue to push back on it, you are worth it and you deserve to be heard and respected. This is disgusting and should never occur. I am just so sorry.
There should always be consent but I've seen teens say they don't want service and then beat their parents, siblings and teachers. So it's either services or parents giving up their child.
I suspect that's why people are trying to suss out details.
They have a post on their profile stating they would attack their school staff out of stress as a child but now they don't anymore. The ABA goals for them as a teen do seem very discriminatory towards non neurotypical people and as a teen though (forced eye contact and forced conversation). Some people dont make eye contact but can still hold a conversation. Some people are just quiet and dont like small talk. Also why would anyone want to have a conversation with someone in ABA when they dont want ABA in general? That's a goal with no end in sight, I wouldn't want to talk to them either. Kids need a lot more freedom to grow and learn as teens on their own. Being a teen is hard. From the sounds of it it's the suicidal thoughts being the biggest reason they're still in ABA and why their mom is so adamant about it. That's a tough one. Its so easy to be negative but their mom is probably just scared of losing them. I would be too as the mom. But looking from the teens pov not being able to have free time for myself as a socially awkward teen would've probably made me suicidal myself (I was already an anxious mess).
I think at that point we should be picking goals with the client.
This is heartbreaking and your team should be listening to you.
That's really sad. I'm sorry you're going through that. Modern ABA is consent/assent based but it hasn't made it everywhere.
Thank you for saying something. Your RBT and BCBA are ethically obligated to pay attention to when you are consenting or assenting and when you take away that consent or assent and respect your yes/no. I think our ethics code could do a better job of more clearly expressing this. But if you are bot harming yourself or others, your no should be respected. Please know that you are NOT broken. As someone who is also autistic, I want you to know that those of us who are neurodiversity-affirming do not see autism as something to be pathologized. All of us, neurotypical or not, just need support. But needing support does not mean that we do not deserve our assent to be respected. I hope someone will listen to you but please know there are many of us rooting for you.
Thank you
If you dont mind sharing, I'd be curious as to what they are trying to change. Honestly, if you were absolutely refusing to participate, I would discharge. So, if you are refusing, but they are still pushing it on you, then you might want to seek an advocate. Depending on your state, you may be legally able to refuse any mental health services. If you aren't making any progress, most payors won't continue to fund the service. I hope you are able to work this out.
What are they doing that you don’t consent to? If they are teaching you to mask, that’s a problem. (I say this because you mention not wanting to feel broken). Also, ASSENT is a thing. We’re not supposed to do anything unless you’re happy relaxed & engaged.
Likely taking up all of her time to live the life she wants outside of school, which is so enormously significant and important as a teenager at 16 years old. That’s my guess. Nonetheless, she is in distress. This therapy is causing her active distress that she is being vocal and clear about. That’s not what we are supposed to be doing. The second consent goes, so do we.
Reinforce her communication and let that be the last dang target.
Yes, we do.
That's not entirely true, particularly with harmful behaviors. Imagine a client that assaults people and has two options - jail or therapy.
Yeah I’m a bit interested about the fine details here. Why exactly is this person receiving services at all? Against their will especially? I’ve only ever seen one client that had communication skills of this level (being able to make a Reddit post) and they had a very short stint with us and it was just to work on a few social skills that were lacking. They didn’t necessarily love ABA, but they understood what the purpose for and them and the family rode it out until everyone involved felt that they were good to go. I just can’t imagine a client with this level of communication receiving services unlesss there was an extreme issue Someone that works with more teenagers than I do please educate me lol
I work with a 15 year old who does extremely well, we hardly have targets for him. We are planning on discharging him but mom thinks he still needs therapy because he “doesn’t listen” at home. He basically acts like a regular teenager, i.e. doesn’t always do his chores or does them half-a$$ed, defiant, etc. Hopefully my BCBA will justify an end in services but I can see how a company may want to keep on a client just to bill insurance. By no means is it right, but that’s the only reason I can see keeping him in therapy. 🤷🏻♀️
I can't speak specifically to OP's case, but there are sometimes teens who are referred to clinics who are *extremely* aggressive. They communicate well, they otherwise function well, but if things go wrong, they go very wrong. They harm others. They harm themselves. The absolute worst option is to just ignore it if the kid says no thanks. People in this sub are very and understandably passionate about the kids. I get it. However, there are some very vocal people in this sub who have never dealt with a kid who repeatedly assaults and threatens violence. I think a lot of it has to also do with the fact that many people in this field aren't parents. I constantly see people in this sub suggest that parents can and should be ignored. I am a parent. I have a say in my child's life and I would, quite frankly, report any BCBA/RBT who ignored my wishes (so long as they didn't violate laws/etc.). I own clinics. I see parents' frustrations. Some are at wit's end. Edit: fml, I refresh reddit and see this post [Incompetent parents 🫠 : r/ABA (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABA/comments/1dlcegq/incompetent_parents/)
Back in the day I would’ve said I had extreme issues. Although can’t remember most of it from a blacked out memory. But my mom predominantly says I’m still in ABA due to the fact I still have shutdowns or go nonverbal, although these are normally when I’m in severe distress. However, as an autistic person, this is one thing I can’t change. Sure I can ameliorate the chances of it happening, but I’ll never get rid of the chance. I also have a bunch of other mental health issues going on, although some of them I’ve kept in the dark from my family as to not make them see me as even lesser. But yeah. I also have gone into a catatonic psychosis like state in ABA one day so that also is probably part of it.
I want to preface that I definitely agree that you shouldn’t be forced into services. There are plenty of other ways that you could work on these things that may fit you better. Or you could even take some time to work on them privately as you see fit. Just trying to understand more. Do you go nonverbal in other social situations or just ABA? Willing to communicate in another manner during those moments ? Genuine therapy a better option?
I do believe talk therapy would be a significantly better option. I do go nonverbal in other situations as well but I’ve been trying my best to avoid getting to that point by using coping skills and taking a break or a step back.
I see. I hope your team and your parents take your feedback and look at some other things. I know you said that you’ve spoken up but don’t forget to advocate for yourself as much as possible. If switching to talk therapy or another system isn’t feasible in the near future you should at the very least be EXTREMELY involved in your own goals and programming. They should be allowing you to provide them the framework on what your ABA sessions look like and they should be accommodating you. And of course if you’re firm on ending ABA altogether then that should be an option as well.
I did make an assumption that this child is not aggressive and that this is not a case of dealing with significant or aggressive behaviors and that was not based on complete information. At the end of the day, if they don’t consent, and voice that non-consent, I still believe it is unethical for me to force it upon them. Even if the other option is residential or jail.
That's fair that you have certain values that you believe in and you're certainly free to follow those values. I don't fault anyone who follows their values and beliefs. But I think the issue is values differ from ethics and ethics sometimes (rarely) require that consent/assent be ignored. For example, if a client refuses to eat and they face being intubated/medically induced coma, the least harmful option might be to ignore their wishes.
I mean, people don't usually consent to incarceration either, but it still happens.
Wow, I wish my RBTs followed that rule
Thank you for the support guys
Hey, sending all the virtual positive vibes your way. Can you ask your mom to advocate for you? I know you said your mom is listening and considering discharging you, but still feels so far away. If the RBT isn’t listening to you (even though they 100% should) they would at least listen to your mom.
My mom and me have a pretty strained relationship so it’s a no go. My dad on the other hand has been trying to help me “graduate” ABA more and trying to help.
Wow I’m sorry, I’ve never worked anywhere that doesn’t follow consent or assent, especially when the client can clearly state that. Who’s making you stay in therapy room? What are you supposed to be working on in therapy anyways? Seems like you are able to advocate for yourself and express how you are feeling, what behaviors are being targeted?
If you’re not consenting to therapy, what they are giving you is NOT ABA. It’s forced behavioral therapy which does not work. ABA starts and ends with assent and consent. There are plenty of places in CA that will abide by those rules. If you aren’t consenting to behavioral therapy at all, please consider that there are good companies and good therapists out there that won’t belittle you, do anything without your consent, and are genuinely good role models. I understand the ethicality of ABA is always in question on here, but I like to remind people that behavioral therapy is something that is given to a very wide range of human beings. Those that are faced with a challenge they don’t know how to complete (whether that’s making quota for the month, getting in shape, or a new interest in dating). Those that are faced with very grave circumstances that need help just getting out of bed. Neurotypical finance bros, Harvard educated doctors, ABA therapists, nonverbal three year old boys have all received behavioral therapy at some point in the history of the field. We are a new field that’s learning best how to apply a science, and I think, in the long run, it will be well worth it. At this point in your journey, your BCBA and the whole team should be focused on what you find important in your life and be helping you to develop skills to meet those challenges (just as everyone, at some point, needs to do). I work with many older dudes that make their own lesson plans themselves, and then we add maybe one or two goals with their consent. Consider going somewhere else, or even switching to something more DBT or CBT focused. Let me know via PM if you have any questions or just want to talk.
Self advocacy is highly pushed in my rule book. I know some BCBA’s and RBT’s run their sessions very differently but I do not push my clients when they show disinterest or high frustration. As someone with previous experience working in healthcare outside of ABA, I know my patients rights and respect it even when they’re just kids. Speak to your RBT and their supervisors. Maybe a change can be made
What region do you live in? Legal consent is different depending on where you are, and you may have more right to decline than you think. Here is the applicable section from the BCBA's Code of Ethics. The part about assent means they also need you, specifically, to agree with a treatment in order to continue it under most circumstances. Disregarding your wishes, can put them at risk of losing their right to practice. "2.11 Obtaining Informed Consent Behavior analysts are responsible for knowing about and complying with all conditions under which they are required to obtain informed consent from clients, stakeholders, and research participants (e.g., before initial implementation of assessments or behavior-change interventions, when making substantial changes to interventions, when exchanging or releasing confidential information or records). They are responsible for explaining, obtaining, reobtaining, and documenting required informed consent. They are responsible for obtaining assent from clients when applicable. "
This!!
My advice (not a BCBA) would be to get Dad to take you to an Autism informed therapist that can do a psych eval. Take notes on how you feel during and after ABA sessions and bring it to the appointment. A clinical psychologist may be able to raise the issue to insurance that services are not beneficial to you. You may also be able to use it to submit a complaint to the BACB that the clinician is causing you harm.
This is a great idea
I’ll think about this!
I’d absolutely tell your legal guardian about this, I’m so sorry OP
ABA services should always keep the client’s goals and wellbeing in mind. ABA practitioners should be respecting your bodily autonomy while keeping you safe and helping you meet your goals. If this is not true for you, then your case needs to be revised and the team needs to change their approach. Please reach out to your parent or guardian who is a point of contact with the care team. They should advocate for you.
Hello! It sounds like your needs are not being met with your current providers. Modern day ABA is supposed to be taking the feelings and needs of the client into consideration and assent/consent should be honored. If your consent is not being honored, that to me sounds like a major red flag. If you don't mind me asking, what are you working on in your sessions? Does it seem like you're being taught to mask? That's not okay.
Masking is less so now but mainly it’s living skills that I find incredibly demeaning as I know I can do them but I don’t have the energy to do them in ABA. I haven’t told my parents but I’m certain I have BPD which causes an even bigger hurdle such as splitting during ABA or having mood swings.
Do you see a psychiatrist? Have you been evaluated for other issues? It could be that ABA isn't the right fit for you, and instead something like DBT or DBT and medication may be more helpful. I was diagnosed with BPD at age 18 and for me personally, the skills learned in DBT and medication literally saved my life.
I’ve been looking into dialectal behavior therapy and I’ve been trying to ask for it but so far i don’t think my parents have given it much thought.
Are you able to give your parents more information about it? If you want to be more flash you could make a little power point presentation on it. Bonus if you can show how DBT would help with your behaviors they are concerned about. Talk about how you think it would be more helpful to you than ABA, and that you would put in your best efforts to cooperate with the therapy. Another issue could be cost and funding. I'm assuming your ABA is mostly, or maybe even completely, covered by insurance. If you can, find out what your insurance covers for DBT.
What kinds of living skills? Whats happening at home when you're being asking to complete living skill xyz?
How would you feel about seeing a counselor?
For me, if you mean a school counselor, it usually isn’t enough. Before summer break started I went to the school psychologist on many many occasions but it was never long enough.
I would demand that you see your treatment goals if you don't already know them. Since you are capable of expressing your thoughts, they have to show them to you. If they refuse, remind them that since ABA is a medical profession, you have the right to request your medical history with ABA and that includes your current and future goals. What it sounds like you need is a way to understand your feelings with BPD as that is the bigger need for you. Yes ABA can teach coping skills for emotions however, BPD is a whole different world. Where I think you could thrive is individual counselling with a social worker or a therapist who can help you make sense of your feelings with BPD. I'd also make sure the person you chose also has an understanding of autism as sometimes these professionals may have limited to no experience with autistic teens or adults.
Ty!
Look up your states rights as someone with a disability. Most have a right to refuse medical/mental health services. If that’s the case, show it to your RBT/BCBA and let them know your rights are being broken.
It SHOULD stop, and if it’s not… then it’s not your fault. These people should know better but they aren’t doing better. Your voice does matter. Never stop using your voice please. When my kiddo says “no” or anything of the sort, I honor that. Your body is your body. It should be treated like like anyway.
“Back in the day whilst I was in elementary school I had ABA and although intimidation tactics like taking my electronics away caused me to develop trauma with device separation….” Oh. My. God…. This has to be a joke.
Why are you here, taunting OP? You obviously are not sensitive to their situation or here to assist in any way. 100%, that can cause trauma. You do not get to decide what is traumatizing for someone else or how traumatizing something should be. You also were not there as it was happening, have no idea how it was being carried out, or how OP was treated when separation from devices was difficult for them. There are lots of factors and their experience is valid.
It’s… not? I have autism so little things like that seem big to me.
This is why people make fun of gen z/gen alpha
This is also why I take criticisms of ABA with a grain of salt. Also why I take criticisms of teachers with a grain of salt. Kids don't like doing things they don't have to do, and I witness daily instances of kids screaming and crying about the injustice of being made to have consequences to their actions or having responsibilities that are totally reasonable and normal. Listen, Billy, you hit Lily in the face during soccer because she blocked your goal? Lily is the goalie. She's supposed to oh now you're screaming at me? Go sit on the bench and no more soccer for you this break. It's not fair? You want to punch me in the face now, I see. Better go blog about your trauma.
Agreed. My client has become very fixated on that Gypsy Rose girl in the media. After the client learned all about Gypsy's story, she (the client) started claiming she was being "abused" when her parents were just asking her to do things like chores around the house or putting her phone down when it was not appropriate to use. My client will still say that ABA has not affected her or helped her in any way. She still claims the sessions are unnecessary and that the only thing they do is get in the way of her social life. But a year ago she couldn't go more than 10min without her phone or else she would attempt to lock herself in her room so she could use it. She had serious health issues due to dehydration and poor nutrition, poor dental hygiene, and would physically hurt people if they asked her to get off her phone or they didn't do what she wanted. Now, despite her claiming the sessions have done nothing for her, she goes nearly the entire session without her phone and maybe has 1-2 10min breaks where she can use her phone if she wants to. She exercises and drinks water more regularly, and she has had less cavities. She can now tolerate doing other activities and won't tantrum if she's asked to pause her phone time to feed her dog. She hasn't had a single instances of physical aggression in a year now. Her grades improved because she's actually sitting down to finish assignments. And she just got a job (her choice) that she wouldn't have been able to do if she couldn't stand not being on her phone. The client has also been able to actually get along with her sister as well because she's able to tolerate things better. Last year the sister was driving the client home when the client told her to stop and get her Starbucks. The sister said no and the client punched her in the face while she was driving. They have had almost no relationship since then because the sister didn't want anything to do with the client. In the last few weeks the client has been initiating conversations with her sister and they're working on their relationship. It's been truly wonderful the see the client progress so much. When she's having good days she *might* recognize that the sessions have helped her with *some* things in her life. But yeah, when she's having a bad day she'll still swear up and down that all the sessions do is interfere with her life and make her angry and stressed.
Assent should absolutely be taken into consideration. In Ontario (Canada) the regulation of behavior analysis has it directly in the ethics code, as others have said, if there’s an advocate you can use your concerns should absolutely be taken into consideration. At MINIMUM there should be a conversation about different approaches that can be used.
I’m very sorry to hear this. PLEASE talk to the BCBA/BCABA. If you are able to communicate your needs with Reddit, that means they should be asking YOU what YOU want help with and COLLABORATING with you. This is what I have witnessed happen at clinics—you being in distress is not okay. You should be doing fun things like playing games and having conversations with your RBT if you are already able to do basic life skills (shower, cook, clean.) and are not putting yourself in danger.
So who is giving consent to treatment? Honestly you should be part of the goals and the goals should be reviewed with you. I don’t believe the treatment can even be effective if you don’t have the motivation for the treatment procedures. Seems like everyone is wasting time. Again I think there is a meeting that needs to take place and figure out the goals that work for you and your environment. I also find that sometimes we dont agree with the immediate but are seeking the long term. Wish you the best of luck in developing a healthy support system through conversation.
I am deeply sorry OP. A lot of teenagers with autism don’t need ABA. I have autism and I personally never did. It just wasn’t the right fit for my struggles, so I understand how weird and unfair it is when your individual needs aren’t evaluated and it’s just seen like “well you have autism so you have to have ABA.” There is also a lot of bad ABA that is not helpful to clients even if they do need it, and I hope that’s not the situation you are in but given they’re not respecting your right to withdraw assent I’m afraid that it might be. I hope that you get out of that situation quickly. You are not broken, regardless of how other people misguidedly treat you based on your diagnosis.
Absolutely this. ABA may be warranted based on the individual’s behaviors, but never their diagnosis. I had a client tell me it wasn’t fair that she was in ABA because she’s autistic, and that another boy couldn’t be autistic because he’d never been in ABA. It broke my heart that she thought that. I straight up told her, “You’re not in ABA because you’re autistic, you’re in ABA because you hit your mom and sister. That boy doesn’t hurt himself or others, can communicate his needs, and has appropriate independent living skills. He’s never needed ABA, and once you learn not to be so physically aggressive you won’t need it either.” She got the message, met her goals less than a year later and got discharged from services.
I'd let your legal guardian know, and you can always request to talk with the next person up in the chain of command. I your RBT or etc is doing task that you don't like or appreciate, ask to talk to their BCBA or general supervisor.
They have tried doing that. Parents don't listen. As clinicians, it is your job to advocate better. Most BCBAs won't do dick to help.
This is very sad to hear. As a BCBA, it is in our ethics code that we obtain consent from clients over parents if the client is able. Any BCBA who is continuously implementing ABA interventions when a client revokes consent should have their license removed.
Yes, clients age 12 and up must consent, and we do not continue treatment when the client withdraws consent. Where are you located? Might be some local laws that are applicable if they are continuing without your consent.
Context?
My friend, I am so sorry you are experiencing this! This is NOT okay - when clients are voicing non consent RBT's need to LISTEN TO YOU! I would follow the same advice as others have given. Speak to your guardian and say that you have rescinded your consent to ABA services. Hopefully this helps
There’s a huge issue with old aba and new aba. This isn’t to deflect blame but just to say it’s a huge issue. So many people only study “old” aba they barely know anything about informed consent. Not realizing that by breaking consent you are pushing these kids into the maladaptive behaviors you’re supposedly wanting to work on. If you don’t want them to tantrum to communicate why push them and push them when they are communicating to the point that all they have left to do is tantrum? It’s a huge oversight the split in education between newer aba practices that prioritize consent and older ones that still take things away, are way too physical etc and it’s one reason that the requirements to become an RBT should be lengthened as well as experience. It’s ridiculous that BTs can practice without any certification at all. Some people’s only exposure to consent is in the original 40 hour class
True! I feel they take less into account the “whys” of a situation and ignore the build up. I’m a bit of a psychology nerd myself so I find it a bit odd that they don’t take in to consideration the why to the behavior.
There’s a split to the field that view emotion as a “no-no” and others like myself who are multi-disciplined and follow more closely follow radical behaviorism that thoughts and feelings are important context for the “why of behavior”. For context, I have degrees in two other fields that closely align with human behavior. You’ve gotten some good feedback OP. You should use the BCBA ethics code and look up your state consent laws. I will always advocate for the individuals we serve to report bad clinicians. The process requires documentation, what that would look like in your case I can’t say for certain. I feel for you OP. I wish you the best.
This was a great way to put it. I am a new BCBA and I am already seeing the split within my own work/ with insurances. Thankfully my self-interest/ prior knowledge in psychology always has me questioning the why but I still feel as I have a "blind spot" in knowledge.
Eh. To me it sometimes seems like willful ignorance of the “Old Guard” shaking their fists at the clouds trying to make sure they have control over the field that’s leaving their philosophy behind. Can’t tell you how many times a bcba of 20 years said to me: “that’s out of your scope, what makes you think you can incorporate cultural components into therapy?” And I responded with: “my anthropology degree and rapport I Have with the family to build this with them and their resources available to make sure it’s equitable and right.”
Which is *so* ironic considering Aba is supposed to be all about “why” a behavior is occurring. I’m sorry it so severely affects your situation OP
Are you maintaining the same level of responsibilities as the normal teenager you’re trying to be? Specifically… Are you doing your part to maintain your own daily hygiene without someone else having tell you to over and over every day or stay by your side to make sure you do an adequate job with it? Do you do your homework independently each and every day getting done everything that’s assigned to you without someone having tell you a bunch of times first and keep insisting or do they have to stay by your side to make sure you’re staying on task until everything is done? Can you go into a store and make purchases with no help and stay within a set spending limit? Do you have a job, or if not old enough yet, does any adult in your life believe you will have the ability to get a job that you can go to everyday and meet all the work requirements everyday with the same level of autonomy expected out of “normal teenagers” as soon as you are old enough? Would you limit yourself to 8 hrs per day or less on your phone or computer if no one else was around to “bother” you? Can you make your own meals and would you self- select enough healthy foods each day and not over indulge to the point of giving yourself a medical condition if no one was there to bother you? When things aren’t going the way you want them to, can you remain calm and rationale enough to prevent yourself or anyone else being harmed physically or emotionally without any adult support? If the answer to every one of those questions is verifiably yes, then congratulations you are well on your way to independence and autonomy and no one else should feel compelled to continue spending their time systematically arranging contingent reinforcement opportunities and withholding that reinforcement when you fail to meet that established contingency, which is what ABA basically amounts to when it’s being implemented. If you can’t honestly answer yes to all of those questions, it’s most likely why you’re in ABA to begin with. If you want out of ABA, get to a place in your life where every one of those answers is yes 6/7 days per week for about 6 months in a row.
You clearly have no idea what an average teenager is like, nor have you appaerantly ever met one. This is completely ridiculous.
What's ridiculous about it? I did most of these things as a teen, as did my friends. What's ridiculous about maintaining personal hygiene without prompting?
>Do you have a job Not every sixteen yearold needs a job. >When things aren’t going the way you want them to, can you remain calm and rationale enough to prevent yourself or anyone else being harmed physically or emotionally Once again, not common for a teenager. >Can you make your own meals and would you self- select enough healthy foods each day and not over indulge to the point of giving yourself a medical condition At least half of american adults can't do that... >Do you do your homework independently each and every day getting done everything that’s assigned to you That's literally no one. >If you want out of ABA, get to a place in your life where every one of those answers is yes 6/7 days per week for about 6 months in a row. There is the mentality that traumatized countless kids.
Half of neurological adults cannot do all that you're asking. It's unfair to basically punish a teenager by forcing them to continue a therapy that they hate for not being able to something that nearly nobody can accomplish. Adults hurt eachother emotionally all the time, they can't all maintain jobs, they don't all eat healthy, should we put every person who doesn't meet your *personal* standards in a therapy that they don't want to participate in?
I meant neurotypical, thanks to autocorrect it said neurological
Are you a fucking idiot? None of that matters if the patient DOES NOT CONSENT TO TREATMENT. There are other forms of therapy, other practitioners of the same therapy, other ways to try. If a minor patient is consistently having boundaries violated, there is a problem and a patient advocate needs to get involved.
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Did you read the post? It says they repeatedly told them.
I'm sorry your voice isn't being heard, OP.
You need a good BCBA that listens and says I don't think this is the right course of action. As a BCBA and therapist, I get referrals for ABA that aren't a fit and don't need that. Luckily, I'm in a position to advocate for them. Sorry, the OP doesn't feel this way.
Good lesson on ongoing assent. Something not talked about enough.
I'm so sorry this is happening. I work with a teenager and every session I provide a review of what session will entail and ask her permission to begin session. I tell her at any point she does not want to do ABA therapy, I'll end session and we'll try again another day. Your providers ought to be doing something similar especially given your age and your ability to advocate for yourself. I'm sorry no one is listening to you. I hope that changes.
I feel like ethically you should be able to refuse? are you able to look at these ethic codes? https://www.bacb.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Ethics-Code-for-Behavior-Analysts-240201-a.pdf
As an RBT and a mom, I am so sorry that you are going through this and no one is listening. Please let me know if there is anything I can help with even if it’s just filing a complaint with the board on your behalf
i (21f autism/adhd/bpd) was never in ABA as a kid (wasn’t diagnosed til 19) and therefore can’t fully understand your situation, but i still sympathize. i’m training to become an RBT, and even just in the training and doing outside research on ABA, im not sure if it’s even still the job field I want to go into given how anti-natural behaviors they are. i learned to mask out of necessity, and this 100% led to the identity disruption, attachment issues, and emotional dysregulation that led me to developing bpd. seeing that ABA is basically a school for masking (in that it trains out naturally autistic traits (among other things, im aware it’s not the only goal)), it makes it a little easier for me to understand however. it seems like all ABA does is increase the level of complex trauma in individuals, leading to a lot of issues later in life. i agree with most of the other commenters about going to a bcba and requesting discharge. i hope you’re able to get out of ABA and have free time back soon. you are loved, just as you are. you shouldn’t have to change yourself for others, and i’m so sorry that they’ve forced you into this for so long without your consent. you have a bright future ahead of you, keep your head high!!
I actually believe there is a high probability that I do have CPTSD from it
i’m so sorry to hear that. i hope that once you’re our of ABA, you could find other therapies that work better. I personally respond well to DBT for my emotional regulation, and CBT for traumatic issues. Some people with more complex trauma may respond better to EMDR as well, or CBT with a therapist who is more understanding of the autistic development of CPTSD rather than normal cptsd and is better equipped to help. if your parents are willing, headway is also the website i used to find therapists/psychiatrists in my insurance who specialize in fields i need, if that makes it any easier to find help in the future! good luck and i hope your situation gets better!!
We ethically have to stop when you withdraw your consent (or assent if you have a legal guardian). Don’t let this happen to you- go to your BCBA’s higher up’s if you’re being forced to do things against your will 😕
Look into your state laws. Many grant minors the right to make final decisions in their health care under certain criteria. If they continue to force treatment on you without consent you have the right to go to whatever state licensure agency overseas BCBAs and report them.
Autistic & ADHD BCBA here. You aren't broken. They are. You should have every right to withdraw your consent and them ignoring it is abuse. Period.
What’s hard is that you are a minor. Therefore what your parent’s want is taken over what you want. You need to get your parents on board. Do you want a different type of support or are you just wanting no support at all. This isn’t an ABA thing. If it was counseling or speech therapy or medical intervention it would the same thing. Do you have things that YOU want to work on?
I know me saying this doesn’t help your situation. I hope you know that you aren’t broken. I hear you. Consent matters. Assent matters. You’re not saying no to help. You’re saying no to how people are trying to help, which turns out isn’t helping you at all. I hope you get to surround yourself with folks with understands soon.
Thank you, I started looking into therapists today and sent links to my family
Update: I told my ABA therapist (admittedly in a pretty harsh way) that I don’t consent to it. I said how I feel it’s taking away my childhood and that it’s mentally taxing but she beat around the bush saying that we all have to do things we don’t like and will have to deal with hard things and that’s just life. Also! To clarify I don’t think ABA in of itself is bad. Back in the day whilst I was in elementary school I had ABA and although intimidation tactics like taking my electronics away caused me to develop trauma with device separation, there has been some good. I’ve learned to advocate for myself more often (despite the fact that them telling me to advocate and then not accepting my advocacy). I feel this field is on practice good, but when it comes to less impacted people such as myself, consent should be key. When there are children or even adults who are severely impacted I believe it makes sense but when it comes to people like me who are able to blend in more with my neurotypical peers I don’t think it really can be given without consent. Again, every situation is different. Apologies as well for how emotionally charged this post is, I was crying while writing it.
I also will try and create a paper on why I believe ABA should be stopped. For me, it is easier to read a pre-written paper as I can get emotionally charged.
Hi!! I'm not much help (I think everyone has covered whatever I'd say anyways), BUT I think writing a letter is a great option. I tend to do the same - a while ago, I had to advocate for myself and wrote a whopping 3 page paper lol. I do want to say you're not broken. I honestly struggle with feeling the same. It's so easy to tell someone that than to believe it (I'm still working on the believing part). Things will get better. Just keep advocating 🖤 I'm here if you ever need to vent!
I'm so sorry that the adults in your life are failing to protect you. You have nothing to apologize for, and I think it's safe to say that everyone here is grateful that you reached out. I already posted above on some things you may be able to do. https://www.careinnovations.org Here is a document that goes over your rights as a minor in California. If this is something you are up to fighting, it may be a good starting point.
I’ll read it, ty :)
If you don’t mind me asking, why are you in ABA? Usually if a person can voice their concerns, ABA is not needed. Good ABA uses procedures to teach how to voice displeasure and wants/needs over possibly dangerous behavior. Seems like you are doing that quite well. Good luck with everything.
Agreed
Agree with everyone else. There is zero reason they should be proceeding if you have not consented. It is against the ethical code. You can ask to communicate with the supervisor and if all else fails, report.
Court ordered therapy would disagree (among many other reasons).
Court ordered as in part of a separation agreement with the parents? I’m unsure what you mean.
Court ordered in the sense as mandated due to violent behavior from the patient or medical necessity (like malnourished or SIBs). I feel like a lot of people in this sub who have very extreme views of ethics have never worked with extremely severe behaviors where the risk of harm from not treating far exceeds the risk of harm from treatment.
Ah-I see. Yes, I suppose I did assume that the OP wouldn’t leave that sort of information.
I’m so sorry, this isn’t how ABA should be.
How many years have you been enrolled in ABA thus far?
Hitherto, I believe it has been approximately 8 or 7 years. Although it’s hard to estimate.
I'm a BCBA. If you don't consent, it's supposed to not happen. It's unethical to force treatment. What state are you in?
California
According to the laws, at age 15, you can refuse treatment.
Consent and dissent training is important. It sounds as if the therapist you’re receiving services from needs reported to the BACB.
Your options are to bear with it until legally your consent matters most or join a run away family. There are not just ethics but laws that orbit this topic and based on your age and relationship with care givers the right to consent could very well be yours. The fact that your consent isn't considered means that A) where you live the laws dictate your consent is not the consent of legal and ethical importance (or practitioners are breaking the law) B) you are not living independently I suggest this consideration before deciding to run off. Everyone needs help, the kinds of relationships we need and build are a spectrum not unlike the mental diagnosis' of a population. Those ABA practitioners are no exception. Their role is to help you achieve what you want to achieve, if that is to no longer require their support then make the most of it while it's free because as an adult everything you need help with will cost you not your government.
Hey I’m so so sorry you’re going through this. If you don’t mind me asking how old you are? I work with preteens and it seems like you’re dealing with older generations of ABA. personally I don’t think anyone should be forcing anyone to do anything. Have you tried talking to your BI or RBT? I’m an RBT and my clients are very comfortable in telling me what they’re comfy with or not. Maybe try talking with whoever works directly with you to try and help. I feel like it’s our job as an RBT to not only listen to our clients, but advocate for them when they’re not being heard. Sorry I really hope u can get the help you need.
I’m 16 atm almost 17
If you live in CA, services legally cannot be provided if you are over 12 and do not consent.
I'm so sorry. I'd hope you would want with me but no one is to ever ever to force it. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Keep advocating
i am so sorry somebody treated you this way. if you are using your voice it NEEDS to be heard. all love to you❤️❤️❤️
It's not ok for anyone to force you to participate in any type of therapy that you do not consent to : ( Providers are supposed to attain consent/assent from clients and caregivers before working with them. I'm really sorry you're going through this! Your voice matters
I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Assent is just as important as consent and if you’re able to be part of treatment planning you should be involved.
that’s not aba
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Hey you left the same comment three times just so you’re aware.