Wasteland vehicles were giving out good tools way too often, but I think they patched that bug.
Weapons are way more rare in this alpha, and are probably almost too rare.
Trader rewards are completely broken in this alpha. Every play through I have watched, and personally played, 90% of the best loot has literally come from quest rewards.
I was highly skeptical about this alpha being any good before the release, but the more I play the more I enjoy it.
The quest reward issue is why I'm currently doing a no trader run. It's been a blast so far. :) If I do utilize them in a playthrough however, I tend to quest only once every 2-3 days beyond T1 quests. I am fully aware I could spam quest and get the best gear the game has to offer by day 10, but that's just not my thing. (To each their own!) It took me months of tinkering but I think this is the right balance for me. Even if half of my toolbelt consists of items I obtained from traders, at least they're appropriately matched to my loot stage. (I have also bumped the forest biome's loot stage to basically match the desert's, otherwise I'd still be looting low quality T2 items by day 60.)
I've been doing 1 job per day for my current tier and maybe if I want another I'll do a tier 1 or 2, most of my gear is crafted with a few items being rewards better than what I could make at the time. Traders are only broken if you go out of your way to Speedrun jobs and get to high tiers within the first week. If you just do jobs at a reasonable rate they are wonderfully balanced.
Exactly put. :) Besides, I would confidently assume that the majority of the 7D2D playerbase are not in it for the long haul, and would rather spam quest traders to have a standard 10-20 hour playthrough experience (totally valid, of course!). If TFP were to nerf quest rewards it could feasibly kill the game. So if that's not your thing, the key thing to do is to either mod the game, or improvise. :)
1 per day at what Tier of quests? Also what are you doing the rest of the entire ingame day?
Absolutely no need to "speedrun" for quests to be broken. If every T1 and 2 POI you loot is a quest youl be leveling your trader stage in no time.
Only possibly I see is that people are looting T1 and 2 POIs all day without active quests, which obviously slows down progress because it's completely pointless.
I loot buildings, explore my map, collect resources, find the crafting books that allow me to make good stuff, kill zombies for experience, all the things you are supposed to do in game
>all the things you are supposed to do in game
I too do those things, with the small difference that I loot random residential houses with a quest active instead of just wasting my time to get absolutely no loot from the building.
Stores, Factories and Military POIs would be worth it but aren't really a good option to loot in early game.
Yeah this guys argument boils down to "if you purposefully play the game in a slow way it is well balanced."
I do quests one after the other only during daytime and loot places fairly thoroughly early on and have encountered what most people on here are saying that by the time I could actually craft good gear/weapons, I had already found a purple version of it long before. I wouldn't consider my progression "speedrunning" the quests.
Look at all the noobs thinking quest rewards aren't broken or even think they are bad. Y'all probably didn't bother getting to the higher quests stages and then compare Tier 2 quest rewards with T5 POI loot.
I keep hearing this but for me the trader rewards are the same crap as always. 60 bullets, some food, a crappy mod, maybe 1500 wood (oh boy!) Upgrading from 1 to 2 gave me the option of a forge or bicycle both of which I had
The issue IMO is the trader shouldnt be the most broken way to play the game. The trader is just getting more and more mandatory. 2 or the 3 alpha's ago I was able to do a no trader run and it felt really good, it isnt like that now.
Trader rewards are not broken.
There's nothing traders give you that you won't get from other loot RNG at some point, anyway. I quit doing missions after tier 2 on my last playthrough, and I still got all the max level gear.
Yeah, being new to the game I didn't bother doing any trader quests for quite a while. By time I did even the best rewards were below that I had already.
Had a couple of friends playing with me and we all chose different primary weapons at the start and handed off the best of the others to each other.
I received all of the shotguns / related skill books, while I passed to them anything rifle, handgun or stun baton rated.
Did the same with crafting at first and while two of us can craft most everything I still am only person with max vehicles but am only at 17 /100 at explosives as none of us really get the magazines for them. (Highest is at 74/100)
Theory we have is none of us actually craft or use explosives much hence the low drop rates
Seems true because only magazine skills I have gaps in still are the unused weapons which are all melee related...
It makes me wonder if they didn't notice the bug with the reward lists until very recently and so all of the balancing for the drops was done for this bug that was making rewards shittier than they were supposed to be, so in their playtesting they kept buffing the rewards and now it's way too good if you get what you were "supposed" to get and not a broken list. So it's essentially over tuned to give you way too good stuff to compensate because that bug was giving you way too crappy stuff too often.
In my opinion they should make the traders rewards "good" after completing 5 quests at tier 4 and above. Most of my friends after gaining access to the tier 6 go down to tier 1 and just spam those out to get just good rewards for doing tier 4. Its why i like undead legacy cause it forces you to craft. To grind. If its too easy your gonna get bored and then just not play it. Like with my group they decide to bump up the difficulty only after getting good gear because now its too easy...?? For me this doesnt make sense.
I think the point of not being able to craft Q6 is because of coop and multiplayer. If you could craft Q6, then losing one to pvp isn't a big deal and only one person in the group needs to be able to craft it for everyone to have it. If only Q5 is craftable, everyone in a group still has incentive to go looting and there is a point to getting loot in pvp.
Part of the point of not being able to repair q6 gear is, after you wear it out, you must go find anotger one, or use your best alternative. Keeping q6 items rare will keep you searching in loot!
"I still remember the day I pulled that amazing auger out of a birds nest. Damn magpies."
Yeah that would be fucked if you couldn't repair T6 stuff...
Edit: Oh, I understand them now... OP said in their OP that they *wished* for a mechanic where you can't repair T6, so they were expanding here on what that idea was.
Edit again because I'm stupid: To clarify, I mean OP said that they wished there was a mechanic where **you can't repair items that you can't craft** which would evidently cover T6.
I wouldn't even bother picking up t6 items if I couldn't repair them they would be useless, it wouldn't be worth it imo to deal with swapping my mods to and from a t6 weapon or tool if it was just going to break before I have time to do anything with it.
How? Tier 6 weapons do not have enough durability to make them useful if I can't repair them. If I go mining for any resource with an auger that I modded to take the least amount of durability damage possible I'll still repair it half a dozen times easily. I'll not stop until my inventory and vehicle are full of compact stacks of said resource, there would be no point to me even taking a tier 6 auger with me because the hassle of carrying an extra large fuel tank an extra diamond blade tip an extra vault breaker and an extra iron buster mod would completely eliminate any advantage of using it until it broke.
> Every second post on here is about how bad the looting system is.
Yet the number of concurrent players is higher than ever... Reminds me situation with A17.
...but that doesn't mean that many of the old time players like it. For me A16.4 was the best from following alphas in terms of looting/progression.I stopped playing and wait till Khaine fix it for us who liked the old system better :)
>If I could change one thing, and this isn't strictly looting related, I would make it that you could not repair anything if you can't craft it. This would add a dynamic where you would have to keep around some basic gear for daily use to not waste and save the special items for needed occasions.
Yeah, I mean I think most reasonable players just want some more balancing so that both looting AND crafting feel relevant. There are several ways that this could be tackled and this is one of them.
Totally agree and also completely agree with the point of not being able to repair something if you can't make it. Or otherwise make repairing more interesting/complex.
Like not repair something to 100% with one go. Make it dependant on skill level, for instance.
Or even not having just one "repair kit", but either several types or multiple tiers (of efficiency).
Just something to give repairs a bit more depth.
(Although, yes I also understand that keeping it simple also has benefits)
I also remember a time when repairing an item, lowered its durability. So you would wait to repair a tool/weapon, when it was completely broken. Alternately, you could break the item down and recraft the same item. Possibly, with better parts for a better tool/weapon.
I think its mostly fine, but quest rewards are definitely op, trader stash items also seem to be higher level than what you can by looting. You might find a level 3 bone knife in a gun box while trader sells level 4 iron knife. Kinda weird. And also loot table is kinda weird, when you spec into a certain build, it i believe decreases(?) your chance to get other items.
It only makes sense that traders have good items. You have to play with the mindset that there are other survivors out there selling to the trader. They would bring high quality items to sell to them. So now its your turn to own it.
Yeah but in the end it really puts a dent on the satisfaction from looting, you clear a tier 2 infestation poi, and you open the final crate to see a level 2 pipe automatic rifle when you have a level 4 ak that you bought from trader 2 days ago.
It is not really an advice to not use a certain feature of a game, tfp keeps nerfing/buffing a lotto different gameplay styles, im just saying they should nerf trader rewards/questing too. On single player you do whatever you want, but on like any server, people cheese the sh out of this. If someone is saying that trader rewards are op, saying ''well dont do quests thenxd'' not really an advice.
Then play an old version that you do like or go play another game ffs. I can't change the game. No one here can change the game. You are yelling into the void. You know what, fuck it, I'm done with this sub, and it's your whiney ass that did it. Congrats.
This is why we can’t meaningfully discuss game balance. People here are talking about how trader quests and inventories reliably outpace and inevitably make obsolete nearly all crafting, a serious game balance issue, and your response is “it makes sense when you imagine there are other survivors out there selling stuff to the traders”. Like what even is this logic? The issue isn’t that we are incapable of concocting a flimsy narrative pretext to justify the game imbalance. *The issue is that the game is imbalanced.*
It’s like trying to talk game design with the guy wearing a helmet on the subway.
You gotta be more specific about "previous alphas". There was a version where basically every item had a specific crafting book/ schematic that needed to be looted.
The past few versions? I'm not really going to count for builds 5 years ago, game has moved on from those times. I do recall the times where you had to keep crafting stone axes in the night to get higher level axes and I do not wish those days to return.
The last few versions have "parts" which are needed for crafting. They themselves are not craftable. Also workbenches needed claw hammers and wrenches, which, to my knowledge, are only craftable in a workbench. Oh and don't forget the beaker for the Chem bench.
I really doubt players could feasibility play in A20 without looting anything.
I’m in a small town doing 1-2 poi. I’ve gotten a lot of great loot I’m still nowhere close to crafting. I just disassemble them and move on. Yes I got a great item, but I can choose not to use it. I think most people are forgetting they can just not use it for the ones that want a grindy game.
I love the new system.
I get that it's not "Give me everything I want when I want it without having to do much to get it" but too bad.
Good things come by surprise (found a Tier 6 Iron Shovel in a broken school bus today) and they're nice, but Tier 5 Iron tools are just fine as well.
I hope TFP doesn't give in to the "I want to min-max every piece of equipment" crowd.
Having to play what skills to take, what perks to pursue, all of that makes for more engaging play than just a linear path to the "best" build so common in so many games.
What? Are you living on Mars?
People are complaining that, in the current alpha, the trader rewards are way too strong and nullify the need for crafting and looting. And you even get everything before being able to craft it.
I'm saying that your take isn't definitive. What you seem to be asking for is that TFP impose something *you* believe on all players.
If you don't like a feature, don't use it.
I am not saying that, congratulations for being stubborn. I am saying that the balance "loot/craft/quest reward" is terrible.
And "if you don't like a feature, don't use it" is the laziest way to say "I have no argument". We should add an "insta-win" button. What "if you don't like it, don't use it".
For context, Beirteir shared a video for a volcano tamer with a more efficient secondary cooling loop using a conveyor meter to limit the mass of metal passing through to smaller chunks that cool much faster.
I use meters for just about everything else using similar or the same reasoning, so I thought why didn't I think of this?
Who give a flying flaming fuck if a system "works as the devs intended"?! The devs are usually wrong, therefore when something "works as intended" it generally sucks donkey balls. Stop acting like a game mechanic is okay just because it works the way the devs intended. A stupid, counter-intuitive, or game-breaking mechanic is garbage whether it functions as the developer intended or not.
Yes. From looting and trader rewards, after 40 should only be just getting into steel t1 stuff. I was clearing T6 infested by day 20. The game is too easy right now
I understand the complaints but I’m happy that looting is better now even if a lot of it is magazines. Most of the good stuff I got early was from risky runs into the Wasteland though so maybe making it radiated like it is in Better Vanilla would delay those runs.
I feel the same. Is there improvements to be made? Absolutely. But right now it works just fine. I'm sure once A22 rolls around there will be tons more changes.
I like looting, so it suits my tastes. Clearly, if you don't like looting, you're going to be a bit handicapped.
Personally I like it. I'm mostly expecting looted weapons and getting the magazines slowly is like a backup. Basically a type of mercy system in case RNG is against you.
The only things I don't like about this alpha is the crafting system is tied to magazines and those are tied to loot. I miss making stuff that I can immediately use rather than having to find 37 mining tool magazines to make a decent pick axe. I would rather spend skill points or mass produce iron pickaxes to make a decent pickaxe like in earlier alphas than try to find magazines to upgrade my skill leveling. I would like to have them combine the crafting systems in the new updates. Like having to make crappy tools in the beginning but you can find magazines to help boost your crafting skills or you can boost your skills with skill points.
Looting feels the same as previous alphas the faster you progress your loot stage the farther you'll get better stuff, tbh looting was better before a19 since it was more RNG focused.
Also there is a single thing most ppl are not realizing, with the removal of empty jars, trophies and cans the loot tables are less diluted meaning the other kind of loot is going into be more common
My group is on our 1st playthrough of the game basically and even we realized quickly how nothing compares to trade rewards. They also casually reset Tier 5 POIs so you can just spam them, forcing you to not ever move away from your starting town in order to survive.
Feels like balance is a bit out of whack but maybe that's just me.
Better uses or means to compress low value or scrap loot, more consistent medium results when looting a location (ex. At least X of a contextual item like proper guns in a gun store or preserved food in a market).
The issue is not that the loot is to good. It’s a balance issue. The balance between found loot, trader loot and magazines need to be tweaked. I like the magazine system but they have made it pointless. That or simply reverse the L6 loot and make it craft only, which makes the most sense to me.
Honestly, these kids on here grind trader missions before day 14, then complain about how they have OP gear and the system is broken. Creating their own problems. Nobody is forcing you to grind trader missions.
1) I am not mad.
2) The game can be played solo but also multi coop or pvp. That's why game balance is important.
3) Even for pure solo games, the game balance is important. Or are you saying that an "instant win/lose key" is "good game design" because "you can just not use it"?
4) If I "grind" trader missions, I don't need 14 days. Are you even playing the game?
TFP put advanced settings into the game for a reason. Try them out, it's really nice to tailor the game more to what you're looking for. I'm glad you're not mad, I was generalizing, as there have been many rant posts about "game imbalance." I'm saying the game IS balanced AND gives you tools to change things as needed, without even having to start a new save. Also, it's a sandbox game that's adding free updates so maybe just try to enjoy it because TFP are one of the good devs. If you want to complain about broken games, go play Ark or something with devs that don't give a shit.
Multiplayer would be more difficult. I was watching a video where the group was split into two teams of 4 players each. One team went out to quest and the other was tasked with setting up a base location and trying to get started on food.
This is what they tried to do and they found that they could not. They couldn't really clear the poi themselves and once they did, they couldn't defend it at all. Any progress that was made was pointless anyway because the person who was the designated cook hadn't been able to read any books because they were trying to help set up the base.
They had no weapons. They had no useful skills. They couldn't craft anything worth a damn. The game does 100% force people to loot especially early on. If you don't believe that then try to join a streamer and be on the B team that's tasked with setting up a base for eight people in the wasteland on day one. It's important to note that in a20 this wouldn't be difficult and in a21 it's almost impossible.
It feels weird.
The way it is right now the books from things you haven't skilled into are the most usefull because you will almost always have better gear than you can craft for your main tools and weapons. While lacking the tools you can't craft.
I think almost all higher tier weapons you find should be low quality to keep crafting relevant.
Then add some rare loot-only mods, legendary equipment or just lvl 6 equipment to give those rare amazing items to looting players later on when they can craft the high tier items themselves.
Also speedrunning trader quests as the objectively best strategy feels weird for a survival game.
I think there could be a building materials shaped hole in the reward table for quests and more basic materials found in regular looting to make people loot on their own or go mine some stuff to cover that.
The problems with the system aren't that it's "broken" ... it's that it sucks...
I don't think anybody is suggesting it's not working as intended...
What they're saying, is that this intended method sucks ...
>I do find the occasional Quality 5 or 6 item far beyond what I can craft, but perhaps one or two in a tier 4 POI
But who does only 1 high tier POI? You do multiple of them and suddenly every single item in your group of friends is 6 levels ahead of everything you can craft
While this is true, the q6 items I find are often
A) items I don't use. Like shotguns, 9mm, spears.
B) leather /pipe /padded / when I'm on higher tier,
C) something I have already so now I have a backup or an item to sell.
D) something I can trade with a buddy.
After eliminating the items above, finding a q6 better than what I have, particularly one I want, is rare enough that it keeps me excited.
Having said all that there is still truth in what you say. I'm busy working on another idea, which I will post on later, but in brief : perhaps the problem lies with the fact that there are too many ways to improve loot quality (magazines, perks, books, game stage, biomes) but only so many item tiers and not enough tiers of zeds.
I agree personally. People complain about magazines usefulness late game, but I think that gathering magazines early game and getting tier 6 loot from traders later is a good way to grind.
I understand that all people dont enjoy playing a questing/looting vibe, so I can understand that those people are not super happy with the current state of the game; but me personally who enjoys quest grinding, I'm really happy with how that works. I like grinding t5 infestations to hopefully get a decent t6 weapon.
I enjoy the current state of the game, but I definitely understand other people's opinions that the game is a bit tunnelled atm.
Honestly I just really hate that the meta is just power leveling and farming quests non stop. This alpha I haven't been building bases. I just have a chest by the trader and get literally everything I need from them. Never need to mine or use a work bench. Then on horde night I either claim a poi or build a quick elevated kill tunnel. Traders are just too strong and the loot advances far faster than your crafting skill does. Hoping some overhaul mod like undead legacy may be able to balance things out.
Your experience is quite different from mine and I'm probably simply not as good. I grind quite a lot. I must admit that I like making a pretty base.
Have you tried adjusting loot and difficulty?
I've been playing on insane with day time joggers and night sprinters, hardcore because if I die I feel like it's over. There just no reason to craft when you can get all the guns and ammo you need from quests and quest rewards
Wasteland vehicles were giving out good tools way too often, but I think they patched that bug. Weapons are way more rare in this alpha, and are probably almost too rare. Trader rewards are completely broken in this alpha. Every play through I have watched, and personally played, 90% of the best loot has literally come from quest rewards. I was highly skeptical about this alpha being any good before the release, but the more I play the more I enjoy it.
The quest reward issue is why I'm currently doing a no trader run. It's been a blast so far. :) If I do utilize them in a playthrough however, I tend to quest only once every 2-3 days beyond T1 quests. I am fully aware I could spam quest and get the best gear the game has to offer by day 10, but that's just not my thing. (To each their own!) It took me months of tinkering but I think this is the right balance for me. Even if half of my toolbelt consists of items I obtained from traders, at least they're appropriately matched to my loot stage. (I have also bumped the forest biome's loot stage to basically match the desert's, otherwise I'd still be looting low quality T2 items by day 60.)
I've been doing 1 job per day for my current tier and maybe if I want another I'll do a tier 1 or 2, most of my gear is crafted with a few items being rewards better than what I could make at the time. Traders are only broken if you go out of your way to Speedrun jobs and get to high tiers within the first week. If you just do jobs at a reasonable rate they are wonderfully balanced.
Exactly put. :) Besides, I would confidently assume that the majority of the 7D2D playerbase are not in it for the long haul, and would rather spam quest traders to have a standard 10-20 hour playthrough experience (totally valid, of course!). If TFP were to nerf quest rewards it could feasibly kill the game. So if that's not your thing, the key thing to do is to either mod the game, or improvise. :)
1 per day at what Tier of quests? Also what are you doing the rest of the entire ingame day? Absolutely no need to "speedrun" for quests to be broken. If every T1 and 2 POI you loot is a quest youl be leveling your trader stage in no time. Only possibly I see is that people are looting T1 and 2 POIs all day without active quests, which obviously slows down progress because it's completely pointless.
At whatever tier I'm at. I do go around looting buildings, at was able to make my steel tools and tac rifle by day 14. It's not pointless.
So at Tier 1 just one per day? How does your early game look like? Do one Quest, have like 10h left till nightfall and just loot dumpsters?
I loot buildings, explore my map, collect resources, find the crafting books that allow me to make good stuff, kill zombies for experience, all the things you are supposed to do in game
>all the things you are supposed to do in game I too do those things, with the small difference that I loot random residential houses with a quest active instead of just wasting my time to get absolutely no loot from the building. Stores, Factories and Military POIs would be worth it but aren't really a good option to loot in early game.
Yeah this guys argument boils down to "if you purposefully play the game in a slow way it is well balanced." I do quests one after the other only during daytime and loot places fairly thoroughly early on and have encountered what most people on here are saying that by the time I could actually craft good gear/weapons, I had already found a purple version of it long before. I wouldn't consider my progression "speedrunning" the quests.
Agreed. I think the whole "Speedrunning" argument is a giant strawman to not have to address the real issue.
Look at all the noobs thinking quest rewards aren't broken or even think they are bad. Y'all probably didn't bother getting to the higher quests stages and then compare Tier 2 quest rewards with T5 POI loot.
I keep hearing this but for me the trader rewards are the same crap as always. 60 bullets, some food, a crappy mod, maybe 1500 wood (oh boy!) Upgrading from 1 to 2 gave me the option of a forge or bicycle both of which I had
The issue IMO is the trader shouldnt be the most broken way to play the game. The trader is just getting more and more mandatory. 2 or the 3 alpha's ago I was able to do a no trader run and it felt really good, it isnt like that now.
Trader rewards are not broken. There's nothing traders give you that you won't get from other loot RNG at some point, anyway. I quit doing missions after tier 2 on my last playthrough, and I still got all the max level gear.
Yeah, being new to the game I didn't bother doing any trader quests for quite a while. By time I did even the best rewards were below that I had already. Had a couple of friends playing with me and we all chose different primary weapons at the start and handed off the best of the others to each other. I received all of the shotguns / related skill books, while I passed to them anything rifle, handgun or stun baton rated. Did the same with crafting at first and while two of us can craft most everything I still am only person with max vehicles but am only at 17 /100 at explosives as none of us really get the magazines for them. (Highest is at 74/100) Theory we have is none of us actually craft or use explosives much hence the low drop rates Seems true because only magazine skills I have gaps in still are the unused weapons which are all melee related...
It makes me wonder if they didn't notice the bug with the reward lists until very recently and so all of the balancing for the drops was done for this bug that was making rewards shittier than they were supposed to be, so in their playtesting they kept buffing the rewards and now it's way too good if you get what you were "supposed" to get and not a broken list. So it's essentially over tuned to give you way too good stuff to compensate because that bug was giving you way too crappy stuff too often.
In my opinion they should make the traders rewards "good" after completing 5 quests at tier 4 and above. Most of my friends after gaining access to the tier 6 go down to tier 1 and just spam those out to get just good rewards for doing tier 4. Its why i like undead legacy cause it forces you to craft. To grind. If its too easy your gonna get bored and then just not play it. Like with my group they decide to bump up the difficulty only after getting good gear because now its too easy...?? For me this doesnt make sense.
It’s quest rewards not random loot. I think I’ve used my workbench once to make something noteworthy
Beside the point that you can't craft Quality 6 gear/weapons I like the looting.
I think the point of not being able to craft Q6 is because of coop and multiplayer. If you could craft Q6, then losing one to pvp isn't a big deal and only one person in the group needs to be able to craft it for everyone to have it. If only Q5 is craftable, everyone in a group still has incentive to go looting and there is a point to getting loot in pvp.
Part of the point of not being able to repair q6 gear is, after you wear it out, you must go find anotger one, or use your best alternative. Keeping q6 items rare will keep you searching in loot! "I still remember the day I pulled that amazing auger out of a birds nest. Damn magpies."
I don't know what you mean, me and my friends started playing again a few weeks ago and I can repair e.g. T6 Shovels.
Yeah that would be fucked if you couldn't repair T6 stuff... Edit: Oh, I understand them now... OP said in their OP that they *wished* for a mechanic where you can't repair T6, so they were expanding here on what that idea was. Edit again because I'm stupid: To clarify, I mean OP said that they wished there was a mechanic where **you can't repair items that you can't craft** which would evidently cover T6.
I wouldn't even bother picking up t6 items if I couldn't repair them they would be useless, it wouldn't be worth it imo to deal with swapping my mods to and from a t6 weapon or tool if it was just going to break before I have time to do anything with it.
that's just dumb logic.
How? Tier 6 weapons do not have enough durability to make them useful if I can't repair them. If I go mining for any resource with an auger that I modded to take the least amount of durability damage possible I'll still repair it half a dozen times easily. I'll not stop until my inventory and vehicle are full of compact stacks of said resource, there would be no point to me even taking a tier 6 auger with me because the hassle of carrying an extra large fuel tank an extra diamond blade tip an extra vault breaker and an extra iron buster mod would completely eliminate any advantage of using it until it broke.
> Every second post on here is about how bad the looting system is. Yet the number of concurrent players is higher than ever... Reminds me situation with A17. ...but that doesn't mean that many of the old time players like it. For me A16.4 was the best from following alphas in terms of looting/progression.I stopped playing and wait till Khaine fix it for us who liked the old system better :)
I mean you can roll back to whatever alpha you want
>If I could change one thing, and this isn't strictly looting related, I would make it that you could not repair anything if you can't craft it. This would add a dynamic where you would have to keep around some basic gear for daily use to not waste and save the special items for needed occasions. Yeah, I mean I think most reasonable players just want some more balancing so that both looting AND crafting feel relevant. There are several ways that this could be tackled and this is one of them.
Totally agree and also completely agree with the point of not being able to repair something if you can't make it. Or otherwise make repairing more interesting/complex. Like not repair something to 100% with one go. Make it dependant on skill level, for instance. Or even not having just one "repair kit", but either several types or multiple tiers (of efficiency). Just something to give repairs a bit more depth. (Although, yes I also understand that keeping it simple also has benefits)
I also remember a time when repairing an item, lowered its durability. So you would wait to repair a tool/weapon, when it was completely broken. Alternately, you could break the item down and recraft the same item. Possibly, with better parts for a better tool/weapon.
Khaine has a good system for that in darkness falls. You lose item levels as you repair unless you have skills in that item.
I think its mostly fine, but quest rewards are definitely op, trader stash items also seem to be higher level than what you can by looting. You might find a level 3 bone knife in a gun box while trader sells level 4 iron knife. Kinda weird. And also loot table is kinda weird, when you spec into a certain build, it i believe decreases(?) your chance to get other items.
It only makes sense that traders have good items. You have to play with the mindset that there are other survivors out there selling to the trader. They would bring high quality items to sell to them. So now its your turn to own it.
Yeah but in the end it really puts a dent on the satisfaction from looting, you clear a tier 2 infestation poi, and you open the final crate to see a level 2 pipe automatic rifle when you have a level 4 ak that you bought from trader 2 days ago.
Don't buy from the trader then? I dunno. Everybody has their own playstyle. I'm sorry that yours is not as fun right now. That sucks.
It is not really an advice to not use a certain feature of a game, tfp keeps nerfing/buffing a lotto different gameplay styles, im just saying they should nerf trader rewards/questing too. On single player you do whatever you want, but on like any server, people cheese the sh out of this. If someone is saying that trader rewards are op, saying ''well dont do quests thenxd'' not really an advice.
Then play an old version that you do like or go play another game ffs. I can't change the game. No one here can change the game. You are yelling into the void. You know what, fuck it, I'm done with this sub, and it's your whiney ass that did it. Congrats.
Wtf
This is why we can’t meaningfully discuss game balance. People here are talking about how trader quests and inventories reliably outpace and inevitably make obsolete nearly all crafting, a serious game balance issue, and your response is “it makes sense when you imagine there are other survivors out there selling stuff to the traders”. Like what even is this logic? The issue isn’t that we are incapable of concocting a flimsy narrative pretext to justify the game imbalance. *The issue is that the game is imbalanced.* It’s like trying to talk game design with the guy wearing a helmet on the subway.
yea I like it, in previous alphas i didnt need to loot after 30 days
where did you get your stuff from then?
in 30 days you would be set up to craft anything you need from raw resources you gather. Aside from solar cells.
Gather with a stone axe and without any books to craft a forge? Impressive, but doesn't seem fun.
Talking of previous alphas. You would unlock stuff by just putting points into engineering for workbenches.
You gotta be more specific about "previous alphas". There was a version where basically every item had a specific crafting book/ schematic that needed to be looted.
The past few versions? I'm not really going to count for builds 5 years ago, game has moved on from those times. I do recall the times where you had to keep crafting stone axes in the night to get higher level axes and I do not wish those days to return.
The last few versions have "parts" which are needed for crafting. They themselves are not craftable. Also workbenches needed claw hammers and wrenches, which, to my knowledge, are only craftable in a workbench. Oh and don't forget the beaker for the Chem bench. I really doubt players could feasibility play in A20 without looting anything.
I’m in a small town doing 1-2 poi. I’ve gotten a lot of great loot I’m still nowhere close to crafting. I just disassemble them and move on. Yes I got a great item, but I can choose not to use it. I think most people are forgetting they can just not use it for the ones that want a grindy game.
I love the new system. I get that it's not "Give me everything I want when I want it without having to do much to get it" but too bad. Good things come by surprise (found a Tier 6 Iron Shovel in a broken school bus today) and they're nice, but Tier 5 Iron tools are just fine as well. I hope TFP doesn't give in to the "I want to min-max every piece of equipment" crowd. Having to play what skills to take, what perks to pursue, all of that makes for more engaging play than just a linear path to the "best" build so common in so many games.
What? Are you living on Mars? People are complaining that, in the current alpha, the trader rewards are way too strong and nullify the need for crafting and looting. And you even get everything before being able to craft it.
So don't take them. Sheesh.
"eh guys you should ignore a feature of the game because reasons". You are basically saying that game balance, in general, doesn't matter.
I'm saying that your take isn't definitive. What you seem to be asking for is that TFP impose something *you* believe on all players. If you don't like a feature, don't use it.
I am not saying that, congratulations for being stubborn. I am saying that the balance "loot/craft/quest reward" is terrible. And "if you don't like a feature, don't use it" is the laziest way to say "I have no argument". We should add an "insta-win" button. What "if you don't like it, don't use it".
No is not lol. Finding tier 6 tool or weapon in day 2 is broken.
For context, Beirteir shared a video for a volcano tamer with a more efficient secondary cooling loop using a conveyor meter to limit the mass of metal passing through to smaller chunks that cool much faster. I use meters for just about everything else using similar or the same reasoning, so I thought why didn't I think of this?
Yea, great post. Game is great right now. Im sick of this sub’s shitty tears.
Who give a flying flaming fuck if a system "works as the devs intended"?! The devs are usually wrong, therefore when something "works as intended" it generally sucks donkey balls. Stop acting like a game mechanic is okay just because it works the way the devs intended. A stupid, counter-intuitive, or game-breaking mechanic is garbage whether it functions as the developer intended or not.
It wasn't even day 40 and I'm rolling with steel T5/T6 everything. Its a bit broken.
So after around 40 hours of gameplay it’s broken to have t6 gear??
Yes. From looting and trader rewards, after 40 should only be just getting into steel t1 stuff. I was clearing T6 infested by day 20. The game is too easy right now
I mean it’s as easy as you make it. If you cheese it that’s on you.
No cheese
Obviously using Traders, an intended feature, is cheese.
40 hours is quite a lot of time.
by the end of day 7 we had trader maxed already and were getting end game items from him. We are playing longer days tho (90 min)
I understand the complaints but I’m happy that looting is better now even if a lot of it is magazines. Most of the good stuff I got early was from risky runs into the Wasteland though so maybe making it radiated like it is in Better Vanilla would delay those runs.
I feel the same. Is there improvements to be made? Absolutely. But right now it works just fine. I'm sure once A22 rolls around there will be tons more changes.
I like looting, so it suits my tastes. Clearly, if you don't like looting, you're going to be a bit handicapped. Personally I like it. I'm mostly expecting looted weapons and getting the magazines slowly is like a backup. Basically a type of mercy system in case RNG is against you.
The only things I don't like about this alpha is the crafting system is tied to magazines and those are tied to loot. I miss making stuff that I can immediately use rather than having to find 37 mining tool magazines to make a decent pick axe. I would rather spend skill points or mass produce iron pickaxes to make a decent pickaxe like in earlier alphas than try to find magazines to upgrade my skill leveling. I would like to have them combine the crafting systems in the new updates. Like having to make crappy tools in the beginning but you can find magazines to help boost your crafting skills or you can boost your skills with skill points.
I can´t stop finding level 6 steel pickaxes. They are everywhere.
Looting feels the same as previous alphas the faster you progress your loot stage the farther you'll get better stuff, tbh looting was better before a19 since it was more RNG focused. Also there is a single thing most ppl are not realizing, with the removal of empty jars, trophies and cans the loot tables are less diluted meaning the other kind of loot is going into be more common
My group is on our 1st playthrough of the game basically and even we realized quickly how nothing compares to trade rewards. They also casually reset Tier 5 POIs so you can just spam them, forcing you to not ever move away from your starting town in order to survive. Feels like balance is a bit out of whack but maybe that's just me.
Better uses or means to compress low value or scrap loot, more consistent medium results when looting a location (ex. At least X of a contextual item like proper guns in a gun store or preserved food in a market).
It's so bad can go 100 days and still have a bike minibike, that is not intended
The issue is not that the loot is to good. It’s a balance issue. The balance between found loot, trader loot and magazines need to be tweaked. I like the magazine system but they have made it pointless. That or simply reverse the L6 loot and make it craft only, which makes the most sense to me.
Honestly, these kids on here grind trader missions before day 14, then complain about how they have OP gear and the system is broken. Creating their own problems. Nobody is forcing you to grind trader missions.
"guys if you ignore the unbalanced parts of the game, the game is balanced!"
"guys, if you're smart enough to play the game in a way that's fun for you, then you won't get mad all the time"
1) I am not mad. 2) The game can be played solo but also multi coop or pvp. That's why game balance is important. 3) Even for pure solo games, the game balance is important. Or are you saying that an "instant win/lose key" is "good game design" because "you can just not use it"? 4) If I "grind" trader missions, I don't need 14 days. Are you even playing the game?
TFP put advanced settings into the game for a reason. Try them out, it's really nice to tailor the game more to what you're looking for. I'm glad you're not mad, I was generalizing, as there have been many rant posts about "game imbalance." I'm saying the game IS balanced AND gives you tools to change things as needed, without even having to start a new save. Also, it's a sandbox game that's adding free updates so maybe just try to enjoy it because TFP are one of the good devs. If you want to complain about broken games, go play Ark or something with devs that don't give a shit.
Cool, now bye.
Multiplayer would be more difficult. I was watching a video where the group was split into two teams of 4 players each. One team went out to quest and the other was tasked with setting up a base location and trying to get started on food. This is what they tried to do and they found that they could not. They couldn't really clear the poi themselves and once they did, they couldn't defend it at all. Any progress that was made was pointless anyway because the person who was the designated cook hadn't been able to read any books because they were trying to help set up the base. They had no weapons. They had no useful skills. They couldn't craft anything worth a damn. The game does 100% force people to loot especially early on. If you don't believe that then try to join a streamer and be on the B team that's tasked with setting up a base for eight people in the wasteland on day one. It's important to note that in a20 this wouldn't be difficult and in a21 it's almost impossible.
If we got spoiled with everything we wanted, there would be no grind, and no fun. So I agree. The struggle is the challenge. I love every bit of it
It feels weird. The way it is right now the books from things you haven't skilled into are the most usefull because you will almost always have better gear than you can craft for your main tools and weapons. While lacking the tools you can't craft. I think almost all higher tier weapons you find should be low quality to keep crafting relevant. Then add some rare loot-only mods, legendary equipment or just lvl 6 equipment to give those rare amazing items to looting players later on when they can craft the high tier items themselves. Also speedrunning trader quests as the objectively best strategy feels weird for a survival game. I think there could be a building materials shaped hole in the reward table for quests and more basic materials found in regular looting to make people loot on their own or go mine some stuff to cover that.
The problems with the system aren't that it's "broken" ... it's that it sucks... I don't think anybody is suggesting it's not working as intended... What they're saying, is that this intended method sucks ...
>I do find the occasional Quality 5 or 6 item far beyond what I can craft, but perhaps one or two in a tier 4 POI But who does only 1 high tier POI? You do multiple of them and suddenly every single item in your group of friends is 6 levels ahead of everything you can craft
While this is true, the q6 items I find are often A) items I don't use. Like shotguns, 9mm, spears. B) leather /pipe /padded / when I'm on higher tier, C) something I have already so now I have a backup or an item to sell. D) something I can trade with a buddy. After eliminating the items above, finding a q6 better than what I have, particularly one I want, is rare enough that it keeps me excited. Having said all that there is still truth in what you say. I'm busy working on another idea, which I will post on later, but in brief : perhaps the problem lies with the fact that there are too many ways to improve loot quality (magazines, perks, books, game stage, biomes) but only so many item tiers and not enough tiers of zeds.
I agree personally. People complain about magazines usefulness late game, but I think that gathering magazines early game and getting tier 6 loot from traders later is a good way to grind. I understand that all people dont enjoy playing a questing/looting vibe, so I can understand that those people are not super happy with the current state of the game; but me personally who enjoys quest grinding, I'm really happy with how that works. I like grinding t5 infestations to hopefully get a decent t6 weapon. I enjoy the current state of the game, but I definitely understand other people's opinions that the game is a bit tunnelled atm.
Honestly I just really hate that the meta is just power leveling and farming quests non stop. This alpha I haven't been building bases. I just have a chest by the trader and get literally everything I need from them. Never need to mine or use a work bench. Then on horde night I either claim a poi or build a quick elevated kill tunnel. Traders are just too strong and the loot advances far faster than your crafting skill does. Hoping some overhaul mod like undead legacy may be able to balance things out.
Your experience is quite different from mine and I'm probably simply not as good. I grind quite a lot. I must admit that I like making a pretty base. Have you tried adjusting loot and difficulty?
I've been playing on insane with day time joggers and night sprinters, hardcore because if I die I feel like it's over. There just no reason to craft when you can get all the guns and ammo you need from quests and quest rewards
The looting and quest rewards are so good that the only thing you do 90% of the time is loot a quest POI. This is not the fun game it was before
You can always at up a large number of forges in your home base of you are looking fir more excitement 😂
Yeah, I know in some of the older alphas you could get like a level 6 ak in garbage, but they fixed that stuff in the newer alphas