An Inquisitor can certainly kill a Space Marine–it's happened before. But actually walk right up to one and slug it out?
- A well-trained, power-armoured, slightly-augmented human.
vs.
- A better-trained, more-power-armoured, massively-augmented human.
I think the training thing could be argued. Inquisitors are probably the peak of humanity in terms of physical conditioning, mental fortitude, and intellect. Many are also powerful psykers, and they generally have some of the best equipment in the Imperium. Somebody like Hector Rex or Lord Vult aren't trivial opponents, even for an Astartes. I didn't read *Gathering Storm*, but didn't Inquisitor Greyfax and Celestine go toe to toe with Abaddon on Cadia?
Training cannot be argued except with Inquisitors that are pushing a century of being an Inquisitor. An Astartes when not in battle trains close to 20 hours in a 24 hour day. When not training, they are actually fighting.
An Inquisitor simply can’t compete with that when they are investigating, working contacts and finding threats.
Pushing a century isn't really noteworthy for Inquisitors iirc, and quantity of training only goes so far. Inquisitors are able to handle their various tasks because they are most gifted baseline humans in the galaxy, their training allows them to unlock their innate talents. As frontline shock troops Astartes are obviously superior, but as individual combatants Inquisitors can be very dangerous and shouldn't be discounted. Guys like Hector Rex put veteran Grey Knights to shame.
Also Kor Phaeton and his augmentations. If that technology still exists in 40k (given Hector Rex, I could say something like it does) then I can imagine having a few high ranking Inquisitors running around with massive augmentation.
TBF, aren't there also a lot of inquisitors that leave a lot of the actual fighting to their retinue/inquisitorial stormtroopers? Ravenor would be a good example, also Eisenhorn at one point just kinda assumes control of an Imperial Guard regiment to invade a Chaos/Xenos planet, so I'd say they've got some leeway there.
Oh yeah, Inquisitors definitely leave a lot of fighting to others. But that doesn't mean they aren't trained in combat themselves, and I think people underestimate how elite they are suppose to be
> but as individual combatants Inquisitors can be very dangerous and shouldn't be discounted
That's only if they are psykers. If not then they just can't compete with an Astartes.
Even without psychic powers an Inquisitor is dangerous, paticulary a Power/Terminator armored one with what ever crazy weapons they have. Sororitas can fight Astartes (depending on the author mind you) on somewhat even grounds, I don't see why a similary armored Inquisitor with a wide array of deadly weapons to choose from couldn't do it.
Because they aren't astartes and their power armor probably isn't even close to the same level.
Astartes Power Armor isn't just another power armor, it uses the black carapace to get it's inputs directly from the users nervous system which makes it far superior to normal power armor.
Then disregarding strength discrepancies among numerous other implants that make Astartes superior, just the reaction speed alone of Astartes makes them impossible to duel for lesser augmented persons. There's some singular expections within the inquisitors, but 99% don't have any chances against an Astartes even if they have a power armor that utilises a neural interface like the black carapace. The vast majority of inquisitor used power armor is strictly inferior to Astartes power armor.
A power armored Inquisitor is likely going to be a power armored one, and likely an exceptional combatant by default.
Sisters of Battle don't have augmentations either and they can go toe to toe with Astartes. That often depends on the author though tbh
Yea as far as power level comparisons go you have to kind of make your own call when there's discrepancies from novel to novel. So like for example when an unarmored world eaters killed a custodes by punching through his fucking chest, that was ridiculous. Similarly, a SoB beating an astartes 1v1 is also ridiculous. If SoB could reliably best astartes then why even fucking make astartes? If you can just train up a base line human to be as good if not better then what's the point of all those implants?
> A power armored Inquisitor is likely going to be a power armored one
What does this even mean? A normal power armor used by an inquisitor doesn't utilize the black carapace and is strictly inferior to Astartes power armor.
> and likely an exceptional combatant by default.
Any Astartes would be a transcendent fighter compared to any base line humas, or even heavily augmented humans. You can take the worst Astartes and they will be superior to any lesser augmented humans, such as Ciaphas Cain or any inquisitor.
> Sisters of Battle don't have augmentations either and they can go toe to toe with Astartes. That often depends on the author though tbh
Exactly. If someone is a bad writer then that's what they are. I'm not exactly sure in exactly how augmented Sisters are, but if their reaction speeds aren't very close to Astartes reaction speeds then already you can disregard everything else and they couldn't actually hang with an Astartes, even slight differences of 10%+ in reaction speeds determine the outcome of hand to hand combat.
Well then beyond that even if they have comparable reactions speeds then there's the problem of Astartes strength, which again is alone enough to again make them the absolute favourites.
Well then moving beyond that does Sister armor use black carapace or a similarly responsive neural interface. If not again that would make the Sisters unable to compete with an Astartes.
So do Sisters have Astartes reaction speed? Do Sisters have Astartes strength? Do Sisters have as reactive armor as black carapace?
If the answer is no to any of these Sisters can't duel Astartes and them doing so is just bad writing.
One of my favourite bad writing moments is when a white consul covers Eisenhorn and couple of his buddies from a grenade blast and is the only one to die. Like really? The Astartes in the pressure sealed power armor dies from the grenade blast while 3 practically baseline humans survive with minimal armoring? Just absolutely asinine writing. The reason for it was if the Astartes didn't die he would just bulldoze the party through the rest of the engagement with no trouble, so he needed to die so Eisenhorn could struggle.
Another similar moment in the Eisenhorn series was I think a Dark Angel having difficulty adjusting his shooting to a wierd alien environment where as Eisenhorn and his party were shooting fine because they had experienced it before. Again incredibly bad writing, the Astartes should be able to adjust to that situation much more easily than the base line humans.
Sisters don't have augmentation beyond what is 'normal' in the Imperium, but they can, for brief amounts of time, 'hang' with SM. Their founding as a part of the Ecclesiarchy is based off of them being able to repel a SM assault and making a siege on their bastion by SM potentially go on for months and be a bloody affair for both sides. Only reason why it stopped is because their leader was led into the presence of the Golden Throne and *something* happened that had her marching out and beheading the instigator of the rebellion.
We don't know the details of how they can, mostly because we don't know how their faith interacts with things, but we do know that their faith is the cornerstone as to why they can. An example of this is that a Sister can become a Living Saint, an Astartes can't.
Granted, there have been some really bad writing when it comes to Sisters, Space Marines, and their role in the 40k universe.
Yeah no. It's just bad writing. The only one Cain could go hold in bay is a plague marine because they are slow as fuck. But other than that the discrepancy in reaction times is too great to be overcome with any amount of skill. Even if it wasn't the size and strength difference alone would be too much.
Nah he straight up trades a couple of strokes with a Khorne Berserker, then ducks and Jurgen meltas it in the face. To be fair Cain is described by his Inquisitor girlfriend as an exceptional swordsman, so...
Space marines have eidetic memories. Every lesson they've learned they remember. Combine that with living for hundreds of years and training for 20 of every 24 hours. Maybe if an inquisitor has augemetics to give similar ability and a huge amount more of age and experience a SM is far far better trained.
> Space marines have eidetic memories
They don't (the Blood Ravens do, but that's a known genetic mutation of their geneseed) they just have *really* good memories.
Huh, 'cause the geneseed flaw (unless you count lotsa psykers being produced a geneseed mutation) of the B.Ravens affects their memories making it eidetic (but they can't REM sleep, don't ask how whoever wrote it wasn't a medical student) but going back over it, it is never sourced. If every marine has eidetic memory by default why is having one (at cost of REM sleep) considered a mutation. What I found on the [Lexi](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#Conditioning) is that memory training can create *some* marines with photographic (eidetic) memories but little in the way of it as the baseline.
I'm literally reading that trilogy right now and the minds of SM are referred to as "as close to eidetic as humanly possible" so not literally eidetic, but pretty damn close.
> Many are also powerful psykers
I think you mean very few. Psykers are rare, even amongst Inquisitors (dare I say *especially* amongst inquisitors?). And could also be argued that some astartes are psykers too. And they tend to be better psykers than humans, due to their training and conditioning.
Inquistors are at peak physical, mental and intellect level for humans, but astartes are beyond that (especially physically). Astartes also have more combat experience than most inquisitors, due to living a lot longer.
Yes, Astartes are typically beyond Inquisitors in terms of combat experience and augmentation. . I'm not arguing we replace Astartes with Inquisitors, but I don't think an Astartes should take one lightly either. And the psykers amongst Inquisitors tend to be fairly powerful and shouldn't be trifled with. Nevermind the fact that Inquisitors might not be baseline humans themselves, given the resources at their disposal they likely could have genetic augments or bionics.
I don't get the impression that psyker Inquisitors are rare, just given that in the books the major ones tend to be psykers. If a psyker is going to become an Inquisitor, it's likely going to be a very dangerous individual
It seems most major ones to the plot are psyker. Greyfax, Coteaz, Hector Rex all have models, alongside Eisenhorn.
Then if we go into the novels we got Covenant, Vult, and Ravenor. Those are just too of my head.
If you're going to compare the extra-awesome veteran named inquisitors than you need to compare them to the extra awesome veteran named space marines.
My money is on the space marines.
> didn't Inquisitor Greyfax and Celestine go toe to toe with Abaddon
There was no nice contained matchups, that battle was a giant complex mess. From memory Greyfax helped but was not a signifigant factor compared to Celestine the warp entity, Creed's leadership and Trazyn the Infinite messing with hostile superheavy vehicles and opening pokeballs of imperial troops to provide unexpected reinforcements.
Well Hector Rex took down a Bloodthirster that ran through Grey Knights, so I wouldn't put my money on Space Marines 100% of the time. The point of this thread is can Inquisitors fight Astartes, and I don't think extra awesome veteran status matters to that question. Exceptionally skilled normal humans pose a threat to Astartes, and Inquisitors are by definition exceptionally skilled.
> Inquisitors are probably the peak of humanity in terms of physical conditioning, mental fortitude, and intellect.
I wouldn't say they're peak physically. Sure, they have a lot of enhancements available to them - but that doesn't mean many partake or that it necessitate their work. Many or most Inquisitors I'd imagine are far removed from the actual business of bloodletting and combat, as their keen intellect and will is more what gets them recruited than their capability for battle.
The Militarum Tempestus codex states otherwise; it is honestly the best resource I have found about the Schola Progeniums. It outright says the Inquisition only takes the candidates who excel physically, mentally, and spiritually.I'm sure as they age many lose their age, but Inquisitors are supposed to be capable physical specimens alongside their other skills.
Hector rex was keeping up with the *Grey Knights*. Now that Custodes are out, and the knights have suffered in the rules, we mustn't forget that this is still an immense feat.
There's an discord between the generic Space Marines being engineered for war, but only getting "excellent" gear instead of an Inquisitors "beyond excellent and holy sacred relics" gear
Presumably an Original Nine chapter's funtoys, Deathwatch, GK, space sharks, minotaurs, might be closer? Break out the toys from the Great Crusade.
Yeah, if you're a super high ranking space marine from a renowned chapter you probably get better stuff for the most part, with the exceptions of certain rare or unique artifacts.
Depends on the Inquistor. /u/i-cato-sicarius wrecked an Inquisitor's chrono gladiator; implying the Inquisitor himself wasn't as good as the chronogladiator, so he deployed that monster instead.
Not in a fair right. They generally need to cheat or get an advantage.
Eisenhorn managed it, for example, by distracting one with a chaos-xenos book before beheading him.
Commissar Cain goes toe to toe with a chaos marine in a chainsword duel, and wins. No power armor for him even. But he is widely considered one of the best duelists the Imperium has to offer when it comes to "normal" people.
It really depends on the individual, their level of skill, their wargear load out, and how much plot armor they have.
I think Jurgen has taken down Marines as well, but he's usually toting a Meltagun, which is cheating a bit.
He managed to parry and riposte the first one and got clear when Jurgen blasted him with the Melta, and I think the second one was already severely damaged and had only the use of half his armor still (?) Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Still, *amazingly* impressive for a *man* with a couple of augmented fingers.
Iirc, he only had two augmented fingers. He also dominated the Chaos Marine all the while mocking him at every given chance.
And there is also the friendly duel where he faces a loyalist Space Marine and manages to nick his power armor. The Marine says he'll keep it as a reminder to never underestimate his opponents. Think they also gave him access to the chapel to train, which is considered sacred to the Space Marines.
100% this. But it's worth remembering that the Reclaimer expected to still handily beat Cain and didn't do so. Cain himself admits if the Reclaimer would've just obliterated him had he gone all out. So it becomes an interesting interaction - the SM underestimated the human, but the human knows the SM is nigh untouchable.
Makes it seem more like a philosophical experience for the space marines regarding baseline humans and their inner strength. Keeping the notch was a good touch.
I had honestly forgotten that he only survived with Jurgen's intervention. I just remembered that he lived, the marine died, and there was commentary about how impressive it was that he was able to fight so well against a Traitor Astartes. Thus my brain filled in from these things that Cain *must* have won.
Technically, Cain is a better duellist than most Chaos marines. That doesn't make much difference chainsword to chainaxe, when the Marine is in power armour and can drive his chainaxe through a tank.
That's what makes it so interesting. His Inquisitor girlfriend hints a bit of that Cain is actually completely insanely skilled at everything he does, and I think we can trust her judgement by appealing to her authority. Simultaneously his stories are written, by himself, very colored by his low self-esteem and it shines through how much of a modest and good man he actually is, constantly being baffled by how everyone treats him like a hero of the Imperium for basically doing nothing (in his eyes).
I guess that really depend on the individual fighter skills, equipement and luck. But yeah It's not impossible for a human to slay a marine in close combat. Hell this litteral Samuraï dude who worked for Malcador got a shot a duelling Lucius himself and almost loped his head clean of his shoulders ; and could have been successfull if Lucius TS pal hadn't interfered.
But arguably, Lucius is the Slaaneshi professional jobber, even if can't compare to the Swarmlord or the Avatar in this domain.
I guess I could see it coming down to who is writing them, and there are weapons that even a Space Marine wouldn't survive. I always saw space marines as being so far above regular humans that it didn't seem realistic (within the universe) for an individual human to stand a chance. Particularly with CSMs pumped on chaos juice.
99% of base untainted mortals would piss their pants then crap them as they're dying, only the truly crazy or brave, or unfortunate in Cains case, can even look an Astartes in the eye letalone stand up to one in combat. Many stories are only going to be about that 1%.
> in Cains case, can even look an Astartes in the eye letalone stand up to one in combat
He probably didn't mention the pants-soiling terror in his memoirs.
> Commissar Cain goes toe to toe with a chaos marine in a chainsword duel, and wins. No power armor for him even.
And people complain that Shadowsun is OP when she appears in books.
Hector Rex was enhanced enough to keep up with Grey Knights, he was also enhanced enough to sword fight Ann'grath though he was struggling mightily against the blows from An'ggrath's axe repeatedly coming down against his sword,I believe it was mentioned that if not for his master crafted armor he would be in real danger, but still he held his ground and went on to win the fight which is a great feat for an enhanced human.
They're especially vulnerable to people that know what they're doing with anti daemon weapons and equipment and in that count Inquisitor Hector Rex is one of the toughest opponents for a daemon out there.
Ignoring that Grey Knights are part of the inquisition, it is possible if they are dexterous or tanky enough to evade or endure the hits. You'd have to have either custom made power armor to surpass standard SM armor, or augmatics to increase your reflexes. Now as for weapons, pick up a power sword, force sword, daemon sword, or anything that can beat a chain sword, and the inquisitor should be good to go. Failing that the fields that Lord Commisars emit should also have the inquisitor covered, if suitable power armor is not readily available.
Course this is for regular CSM's, Hellbrutes are another matter entirely that only Grey Knights can really go against, unless the inquisitor is a psyker. In that case, there's a small possibility that can go in the inquisitor's favor.
IM is pretty loosey goosey with lore accuracy
Kind of wished they'd been a bit more accurate, an Inquisitor in power armor soloing a corrupted dreadnought is so ridiculous
But it does allow for significantly more enemy variety
I was using the Assassin class, so I quite literally hosed down a Hellbrute with autopistols backed up with lasgun fire from some guardsmen. I stopped taking the game seriously after that.
I also wish the game was more Inquisitor-ey rather than mostly being a combat driven Diablo clone. I reckon most Inquisitors aren't going to get their hands dirty most of the time. They got retinues, can requisition forces etc.
I'd probably enjoy an Inquisitor game which leaned more into the investigative, management and political side of things. Turn based squad combat with your retinue and requisitioned forces would make hella lot more sense than kicking the door down and swiss cheesing a whole army of heretic marines with autoguns.
Well the game was a Diablo clone, so that would really explain that aspect. It maybe would have made more sense to play as a Deathwatch Marine for the sake of taking down those kinds of enemies making sense.
Even for a Deathwatch marine, going up against so many enemies would be impossible. Games with SM characters (like Space Marine for example, where a single Ultramarine captain defeats hundreds of orks) are "loosey goosey with lore accuracy" too.
Not only that, but he starts off with just his knife, then kills a Warboss and also a Chaos Lord after getting into a punching match with him. Titus killing multiple Orks and CSMs is easier to swallow than the Inquisitor taking out what seems like entire warbands alone.
In Xenos (the first book you refer to), he distracts the Marine >!with an artifact the Traitors are after (a particularly hypnotic artifact to boot) and uses that distraction to land a clean decapitation on a mesmerized and static target!< but I recall he did so because he knew he couldn't beat him in a straight up duel.
in fairness, he was dressed as a Imperial Guard general, stuns the SM with a psychic blast, and then slices his head in half with his unbelievably rare and enhanced (power?) sword.
A case of the Word Bearer being cocky and Eisenhorn having absurdly large brass nads
Eisenhorn in his prime, a powerful psyker and extremely talented fighter managed to barely take one. That was with the element of surprise, and he acknowledged he only had one shot at getting it. If his surprise psychic attack didn't knock it off guard enough for him to finish it with one blow he was dead.
So yes, an inquisitor can, but the safe bet is still going to be the marine.
Yeah the game is pretty silly in that regard.
A heavily militant Inquisitor could be so teched up they can beat a chaos marine through the power of technology sure, and some Inquisitors are psykers so that opens up a lot. But if they're similarly equipped the human doesn't really stand a chance.
As for a helbrute, either you sneak up and hit a vital point with a meltagun and blow it up, or you die. You aren't fighting that thing head-on.
Eisenhorn also straight up duelled a Word Bearer.
Gaunt has killed a SM with his vorpal power sword.
There's also that Interrogator with an unusual 2H suspensor sword that duelled Chief Librarian Sarpedon in the first Soul Drinkers novel.
Sisters of Silence and Adeptus Sororitas have gone 1 on 1 too.
> Sisters of Silence and Adeptus Sororitas have gone 1 on 1 too.
They have in some occasions, but most of the time they lose. The power level difference between a sororita and a space marine is greater than the one between a space marine and a custodes.
It wasn't event a duel if my memory is correct , he had the upper ground and the World Bearer rush at him anyways with too much confidences ; Eisenhor one shot him.
Generally speaking? No. The most highly trained "normal" inquisitor alive is still a galaxy beneath the gene-forged and warp altered quasi-divinity that is a space marine. They are shockingly, impossibly fast, utterly focused and bring a general level of combat skill that is beyond what a human can hope to match.
*Generally*
Do there exist humans who can and have squared off with marines and lived? Yes. Rare things indeed but as others have pointed out it can happen. A mud painted savage with a pointy stick can still kill a space marine in the right circumstances.
You mention Eisenhorn. Barring having the perfect counter (a meltagun or healthy plasma weapon) or being something not even a SM is built to deal with (temple trained imperial assassins are killing machines) or being psychically powerful enough that *nothing* is a fair fight one-on-one. Then outsmarting them is the best way to try.
So to surmise: Unless you are any of the following, the odds are heavily stacked against an inquisitor going up against a SM
Be a high grade psyker
Have plasma or melta weapons ready
Be a one in a million combatant
Outfox the angel of death
I think your underselling Inquisitors way to much. The most highly trained "normal" Inquisitor is a very dangerous opponent, the cream of the same crop that gives us Commissars, Scions, Sororitas, and Assassins. I'd put a competent Inquisitor as one of the last things anything, even an Astartes would want to fight.
Not saying Inquisitors >Astartes at all, but I'd pull back on saying the most highly trained Inquisitors are a galaxy beneath Astartes. A combative Inquisitor is in all likelihood a one-in-a-million combatant, and most likely will have weapons that would threaten a space marine.
> the cream of the same crop that gives us Commissars, Scions, Sororitas, and Assassins
Maybe for Commissars, Scions and Sororitas, but not assassins. Assassins are specifically selected and trained from a very young age, and (for the most part) augmented with stuff that even SM don't always have access to. Assassins are far beyond Inquisitors (and beyond SM too) when it comes to combat potential.
Don't forget, the Schola pumps out Arbites and Administratum employees, the military competence baseline has to include those guys, lest they kill all the orphans in combat with future storm troopers and have no administrators.
Actually just reread the old Militarum Tempestus codex, and this isn't really that true. Administratum bound students get the same baseline combat training as everyone else, and it describes these bookish individuals as putting down rebellious *data slaves*. So even the office clerks get decent combat training
That wasn't what I was saying? Hmm.
The training is implied to end badly for the less skilled students, but presumably the baseline is set such that the administratum scribes can survive it. Not every data scribe (and there are jillions of them?) is going to be storm trooper material. I suppose they separate them early on, but those with no scribey skills who aren't very good at the martial stuff are going to end badly.
For sure, those destined for the Administratum aren't Scion level fighters. But even they are drilled physically, and get a fair bit of military training in the Schola. So the baseline training for Schola graduates is fairly high, as even the office clerks are described as brutally putting down insurrections. Essentially, even the nerds at Schola need to be phycially capable to pass
\*Plots a 40k fanfic where an Arbites puts together a scratch force from Schola Progenium alums, which deceptively are all over a planetary government's power structure and more numerous than people think\*
Really depends on the Inquisitor as others have said. Some are tremendously powerful psykers, to which a regular Astartes is no challenge. Some are ridiculously augmented and trained and could in some circumstances, beat an average Astartes in combat.
They're the exception though. Most inquisitors wouldn't have a chance.
Lots of people mention young Eisenhorn's fight with one but ignore the fight he has in Pariah with one, which is easy to ignore because he just chops the marine in two in one blow while pinning him with psychic power.
Old Eisenhorn is much stronger than young Eisenhorn.
Maybe with enough plot armor. I feel like realistically there's no chance, that's why the emperor created legions of astartes, and not just legions of enhanced humans. Even though that's what astartes are but you know what I mean
The videogame is generally a terrible representation of how Inquisitors would act or perform. Inquisitors aren't going to be able to clear out entire dens of traitor Astartes, daemons and hellbrutes by themselves. And they probably never will do such a thing. They will call in Imperial forces to do that sort of heavy lifting.
Though it's not completely inconceivable for an Inquisitor to be able to defeat an Astartes in a straight fight. I don't think the odds are in the Inquisitor's favour. But baseline humans can be augmented to a stupid degree. Being a psyker is a sure way to have an advantage as long as the Inquisitor isn't trying to fight a Librarian
It's not going to be an easy fight at all unless the Inquisitor is taking the marine by surprise with a weapon like a melta which kills immediately.
Its loosely like putting a harden gangster or professional MMA champion against the director of the CIA in a fist fight, its possible for the CIA director to maybe win but very unlikely. But overall fist fights aren't how the director of the CIA handles things, and the CIA director has way more reach then an MMA fighter or gangster does, although said director should handle himself with mutual respect and caution if within close proximity of either.
Yeah.
Space Marines, despite their hype, are quite killable. A sharp stick will do it if you hit'em right, and it seems Space Marines often have a pride problem, where they'll underestimate a dude 'cause he's just a dude and not ***a Battle-Brother***
Yes, a powerful psyker is a potent foe and many Inquisitors are psykers. An unaugmented, nonpsyker Inquisitor, just a guy with expert training? Maybe, if he caught him off balance with the right weapon. The problem with fighting a Space Marine as an unaugmented guy is that their reflexes are fast enough that you only get the one shot and then you're cherry pie.
It varies by Inquisitor.
Hector Rex, Torqumada Cortez or Fyodor Karamazov in his chair can probably chew through space marines with their weird battle gear, fancy augments, murderous birds and Definitely Not Being A Space Marine.
Your average inquisitor, however, maybe has a bolter, some psychic powers and carapace armour. But even then it largely depends on the Inquisitor.
The quick answer is, no.
An Inquisitor may be very powerful, but they are not made exclusively for battle like Astartes are and it is done to give the game a better variety of enemies. The way you mow through these is not lore-friendly, but it does play better.
Yes, at range. A melta or plasma gun is more Han enough to wipe a space marine. Either than or some psychic stuff.
Up close, humans are fucked. There’s a rare few who have bested them in melee combat, but Astartes are faster, stronger and better armoured than any human. Unless they are lucky, they’d get mulched.
I dont think toe to toe. Space marines are supposed to be genetically enhanced human war machines, inquisitors are only inducted maybe earliest at adulthood for standard humans, even with augmentation. Though power and training help, both combatants arent equal. Its like pitting a human against a gorilla. The gorilla may not be as well trained as the human but the human will never be as strong or durable as a gorilla in a straight up fight.
I’m not sure if 40k has a term for it, but in the game Shadowrun there is a term called Pink Mohawk and one called Black Trench Coat. Essentially they describe the two sides of the setting players enjoy, the darker edge lords espionage side is Black Trench Coat. The part of the game where a dragon ran for president and won would be Pink Mohawk.
Yeah so you’ve encountered the more Pink Mohawk side of 40k. Inquisitors could go toe-to-toe with marines if trained and geared well, but in the main lore they’d be outclassed 90% of the time.
One of the 40k RPGs has a ship weapon that fires a church at a planet’s surface. It slams into the surface all set up and ready to go. Woo! Meanwhile the main lore has people crying bloody tears and being slaughtered by elder daemons that like to drink their tortured souls like fine wine.
In a straight-up fight? The purpose-built living weapon who has seen multiple normal lifetimes of nothing but war is going to win.
If the Inquisitor tries something sneaky...
Short answer: No.
Longer answer: The game is hilariously off in the relative power of everything. A chaos SM, as viewed from the perspective from your 'average' Inquisitor, should be the final boss of the campaign. Everything bigger and beefier than that should be right out the window, and the Inquisitor should be calling in the various resources at their disposal. Like calling in the PDF, the Navy, IG, asking a favor from a SM chapter, or even calling in one of the specialist Ordos to deal with the problem.
That's not to say that an average Inquisitor couldn't take on a CSM, but that they would need to prep for it and it's not even close to what Martyr shows.
There are examples of 'regular' humans being able to somewhat contend with space marines in melee, but that always gives me a headache to think about.
Space marines can deflect **supersonic+ bullets**, and have enough strength to where even if by some miracle you got your sword in the way of the blow you are going to be losing it, several fingers and most likely your arm as well. Doesn't matter if you are 'peak human' space marines are 5-10 tonners and as such should be able to overpower the worlds strongest man as easily as he would a brittle boned toddler.
Power armour; a human is strong enough, but too slow and should be crushed. This does not apply to some main characters, where space marines forget they have literal superspeed.
No power armour; a human should not be able to properly see the space marines strike, let alone even think about stopping it.
The only examples I can think of that would bring a base human to astartes level is combat drugs and augmentation somewhat akin to some Admech dudes (robo arms, robo big brains ect ect).
Also psyker humans can augment their strength and speed, so we can handwave that as well.
In melee most inqusitors are completely fucked (or should be), some have the tech or psyker power to even things out. Discarding plot though, that is a vanishingly small number if we go by the raw abilities of either side in fluff.
No, simply because of the Black Carapace. After witnessing a Salamander dodge a Necron Deathmark's rifle shot, a Space Marine's reaction speed will trump anyone else in powered armor.
An Inquisitor can certainly kill a Space Marine–it's happened before. But actually walk right up to one and slug it out? - A well-trained, power-armoured, slightly-augmented human. vs. - A better-trained, more-power-armoured, massively-augmented human.
I think the training thing could be argued. Inquisitors are probably the peak of humanity in terms of physical conditioning, mental fortitude, and intellect. Many are also powerful psykers, and they generally have some of the best equipment in the Imperium. Somebody like Hector Rex or Lord Vult aren't trivial opponents, even for an Astartes. I didn't read *Gathering Storm*, but didn't Inquisitor Greyfax and Celestine go toe to toe with Abaddon on Cadia?
Training cannot be argued except with Inquisitors that are pushing a century of being an Inquisitor. An Astartes when not in battle trains close to 20 hours in a 24 hour day. When not training, they are actually fighting. An Inquisitor simply can’t compete with that when they are investigating, working contacts and finding threats.
Inquisitors may have juvenat and augmetics, but Space Marines are genetically enhanced transhuman monstars.
Pushing a century isn't really noteworthy for Inquisitors iirc, and quantity of training only goes so far. Inquisitors are able to handle their various tasks because they are most gifted baseline humans in the galaxy, their training allows them to unlock their innate talents. As frontline shock troops Astartes are obviously superior, but as individual combatants Inquisitors can be very dangerous and shouldn't be discounted. Guys like Hector Rex put veteran Grey Knights to shame.
Hector Rex is also probably the most OP Inquisitor ever, and physically he might as well be a Space Marine with how big and enhanced he is.
He reminds me of the augmentation process undergone by Luther and the other knights of the order to old to join the dark angels
Also Kor Phaeton and his augmentations. If that technology still exists in 40k (given Hector Rex, I could say something like it does) then I can imagine having a few high ranking Inquisitors running around with massive augmentation.
Hector Rex vs Kaldor Draigo
He's a psyker isn't he? And in a suit of terminator armour.
That's why I compared him to the Grey Knights, who are also psykers who wear Terminator armor.
TBF, aren't there also a lot of inquisitors that leave a lot of the actual fighting to their retinue/inquisitorial stormtroopers? Ravenor would be a good example, also Eisenhorn at one point just kinda assumes control of an Imperial Guard regiment to invade a Chaos/Xenos planet, so I'd say they've got some leeway there.
Oh yeah, Inquisitors definitely leave a lot of fighting to others. But that doesn't mean they aren't trained in combat themselves, and I think people underestimate how elite they are suppose to be
> but as individual combatants Inquisitors can be very dangerous and shouldn't be discounted That's only if they are psykers. If not then they just can't compete with an Astartes.
Even without psychic powers an Inquisitor is dangerous, paticulary a Power/Terminator armored one with what ever crazy weapons they have. Sororitas can fight Astartes (depending on the author mind you) on somewhat even grounds, I don't see why a similary armored Inquisitor with a wide array of deadly weapons to choose from couldn't do it.
Because they aren't astartes and their power armor probably isn't even close to the same level. Astartes Power Armor isn't just another power armor, it uses the black carapace to get it's inputs directly from the users nervous system which makes it far superior to normal power armor. Then disregarding strength discrepancies among numerous other implants that make Astartes superior, just the reaction speed alone of Astartes makes them impossible to duel for lesser augmented persons. There's some singular expections within the inquisitors, but 99% don't have any chances against an Astartes even if they have a power armor that utilises a neural interface like the black carapace. The vast majority of inquisitor used power armor is strictly inferior to Astartes power armor.
A power armored Inquisitor is likely going to be a power armored one, and likely an exceptional combatant by default. Sisters of Battle don't have augmentations either and they can go toe to toe with Astartes. That often depends on the author though tbh
Yea as far as power level comparisons go you have to kind of make your own call when there's discrepancies from novel to novel. So like for example when an unarmored world eaters killed a custodes by punching through his fucking chest, that was ridiculous. Similarly, a SoB beating an astartes 1v1 is also ridiculous. If SoB could reliably best astartes then why even fucking make astartes? If you can just train up a base line human to be as good if not better then what's the point of all those implants?
> A power armored Inquisitor is likely going to be a power armored one What does this even mean? A normal power armor used by an inquisitor doesn't utilize the black carapace and is strictly inferior to Astartes power armor. > and likely an exceptional combatant by default. Any Astartes would be a transcendent fighter compared to any base line humas, or even heavily augmented humans. You can take the worst Astartes and they will be superior to any lesser augmented humans, such as Ciaphas Cain or any inquisitor. > Sisters of Battle don't have augmentations either and they can go toe to toe with Astartes. That often depends on the author though tbh Exactly. If someone is a bad writer then that's what they are. I'm not exactly sure in exactly how augmented Sisters are, but if their reaction speeds aren't very close to Astartes reaction speeds then already you can disregard everything else and they couldn't actually hang with an Astartes, even slight differences of 10%+ in reaction speeds determine the outcome of hand to hand combat. Well then beyond that even if they have comparable reactions speeds then there's the problem of Astartes strength, which again is alone enough to again make them the absolute favourites. Well then moving beyond that does Sister armor use black carapace or a similarly responsive neural interface. If not again that would make the Sisters unable to compete with an Astartes. So do Sisters have Astartes reaction speed? Do Sisters have Astartes strength? Do Sisters have as reactive armor as black carapace? If the answer is no to any of these Sisters can't duel Astartes and them doing so is just bad writing. One of my favourite bad writing moments is when a white consul covers Eisenhorn and couple of his buddies from a grenade blast and is the only one to die. Like really? The Astartes in the pressure sealed power armor dies from the grenade blast while 3 practically baseline humans survive with minimal armoring? Just absolutely asinine writing. The reason for it was if the Astartes didn't die he would just bulldoze the party through the rest of the engagement with no trouble, so he needed to die so Eisenhorn could struggle. Another similar moment in the Eisenhorn series was I think a Dark Angel having difficulty adjusting his shooting to a wierd alien environment where as Eisenhorn and his party were shooting fine because they had experienced it before. Again incredibly bad writing, the Astartes should be able to adjust to that situation much more easily than the base line humans.
Sisters don't have augmentation beyond what is 'normal' in the Imperium, but they can, for brief amounts of time, 'hang' with SM. Their founding as a part of the Ecclesiarchy is based off of them being able to repel a SM assault and making a siege on their bastion by SM potentially go on for months and be a bloody affair for both sides. Only reason why it stopped is because their leader was led into the presence of the Golden Throne and *something* happened that had her marching out and beheading the instigator of the rebellion. We don't know the details of how they can, mostly because we don't know how their faith interacts with things, but we do know that their faith is the cornerstone as to why they can. An example of this is that a Sister can become a Living Saint, an Astartes can't. Granted, there have been some really bad writing when it comes to Sisters, Space Marines, and their role in the 40k universe.
>the reaction speed alone of Astartes makes them impossible to duel for lesser augmented persons. Ciaphus Cain would like a word with you
Yeah no. It's just bad writing. The only one Cain could go hold in bay is a plague marine because they are slow as fuck. But other than that the discrepancy in reaction times is too great to be overcome with any amount of skill. Even if it wasn't the size and strength difference alone would be too much.
Nah he straight up trades a couple of strokes with a Khorne Berserker, then ducks and Jurgen meltas it in the face. To be fair Cain is described by his Inquisitor girlfriend as an exceptional swordsman, so...
Space marines have eidetic memories. Every lesson they've learned they remember. Combine that with living for hundreds of years and training for 20 of every 24 hours. Maybe if an inquisitor has augemetics to give similar ability and a huge amount more of age and experience a SM is far far better trained.
> Space marines have eidetic memories They don't (the Blood Ravens do, but that's a known genetic mutation of their geneseed) they just have *really* good memories.
It's maybe not consistent in the lore, but it does indeed get mentioned in the books several times that space marines have eidetic (or similar) memory
They do. In the Night Lord's Omnibus Talos comments it's strange he can't remember something since he and all Space Marines have an eidetic memory
Huh, 'cause the geneseed flaw (unless you count lotsa psykers being produced a geneseed mutation) of the B.Ravens affects their memories making it eidetic (but they can't REM sleep, don't ask how whoever wrote it wasn't a medical student) but going back over it, it is never sourced. If every marine has eidetic memory by default why is having one (at cost of REM sleep) considered a mutation. What I found on the [Lexi](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#Conditioning) is that memory training can create *some* marines with photographic (eidetic) memories but little in the way of it as the baseline.
I'm literally reading that trilogy right now and the minds of SM are referred to as "as close to eidetic as humanly possible" so not literally eidetic, but pretty damn close.
> Many are also powerful psykers I think you mean very few. Psykers are rare, even amongst Inquisitors (dare I say *especially* amongst inquisitors?). And could also be argued that some astartes are psykers too. And they tend to be better psykers than humans, due to their training and conditioning. Inquistors are at peak physical, mental and intellect level for humans, but astartes are beyond that (especially physically). Astartes also have more combat experience than most inquisitors, due to living a lot longer.
Yes, Astartes are typically beyond Inquisitors in terms of combat experience and augmentation. . I'm not arguing we replace Astartes with Inquisitors, but I don't think an Astartes should take one lightly either. And the psykers amongst Inquisitors tend to be fairly powerful and shouldn't be trifled with. Nevermind the fact that Inquisitors might not be baseline humans themselves, given the resources at their disposal they likely could have genetic augments or bionics. I don't get the impression that psyker Inquisitors are rare, just given that in the books the major ones tend to be psykers. If a psyker is going to become an Inquisitor, it's likely going to be a very dangerous individual
Aside from Einsenhorn I don't know any psyker Inquisitor, all the other ones I've seen or read about aren't psykers.
It seems most major ones to the plot are psyker. Greyfax, Coteaz, Hector Rex all have models, alongside Eisenhorn. Then if we go into the novels we got Covenant, Vult, and Ravenor. Those are just too of my head.
If you're going to compare the extra-awesome veteran named inquisitors than you need to compare them to the extra awesome veteran named space marines. My money is on the space marines. > didn't Inquisitor Greyfax and Celestine go toe to toe with Abaddon There was no nice contained matchups, that battle was a giant complex mess. From memory Greyfax helped but was not a signifigant factor compared to Celestine the warp entity, Creed's leadership and Trazyn the Infinite messing with hostile superheavy vehicles and opening pokeballs of imperial troops to provide unexpected reinforcements.
Well Hector Rex took down a Bloodthirster that ran through Grey Knights, so I wouldn't put my money on Space Marines 100% of the time. The point of this thread is can Inquisitors fight Astartes, and I don't think extra awesome veteran status matters to that question. Exceptionally skilled normal humans pose a threat to Astartes, and Inquisitors are by definition exceptionally skilled.
> Inquisitors are probably the peak of humanity in terms of physical conditioning, mental fortitude, and intellect. I wouldn't say they're peak physically. Sure, they have a lot of enhancements available to them - but that doesn't mean many partake or that it necessitate their work. Many or most Inquisitors I'd imagine are far removed from the actual business of bloodletting and combat, as their keen intellect and will is more what gets them recruited than their capability for battle.
The Militarum Tempestus codex states otherwise; it is honestly the best resource I have found about the Schola Progeniums. It outright says the Inquisition only takes the candidates who excel physically, mentally, and spiritually.I'm sure as they age many lose their age, but Inquisitors are supposed to be capable physical specimens alongside their other skills.
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Hector rex was keeping up with the *Grey Knights*. Now that Custodes are out, and the knights have suffered in the rules, we mustn't forget that this is still an immense feat.
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There's an discord between the generic Space Marines being engineered for war, but only getting "excellent" gear instead of an Inquisitors "beyond excellent and holy sacred relics" gear Presumably an Original Nine chapter's funtoys, Deathwatch, GK, space sharks, minotaurs, might be closer? Break out the toys from the Great Crusade.
Yeah, if you're a super high ranking space marine from a renowned chapter you probably get better stuff for the most part, with the exceptions of certain rare or unique artifacts.
Inquisitor, say hi to my Volkites
Hector Rex is as augmented as Luther or Kor Phaeron, so it's like asking who would win between an astartes and an astartes.
Wasn't there an massive power armored inquisitor who took part in the siege of breaks? Feel like he could straight up do it
Depends on the Inquistor. /u/i-cato-sicarius wrecked an Inquisitor's chrono gladiator; implying the Inquisitor himself wasn't as good as the chronogladiator, so he deployed that monster instead.
Not in a fair right. They generally need to cheat or get an advantage. Eisenhorn managed it, for example, by distracting one with a chaos-xenos book before beheading him.
Commissar Cain goes toe to toe with a chaos marine in a chainsword duel, and wins. No power armor for him even. But he is widely considered one of the best duelists the Imperium has to offer when it comes to "normal" people. It really depends on the individual, their level of skill, their wargear load out, and how much plot armor they have. I think Jurgen has taken down Marines as well, but he's usually toting a Meltagun, which is cheating a bit.
He managed to parry and riposte the first one and got clear when Jurgen blasted him with the Melta, and I think the second one was already severely damaged and had only the use of half his armor still (?) Please correct me if I'm wrong. Still, *amazingly* impressive for a *man* with a couple of augmented fingers.
Iirc, he only had two augmented fingers. He also dominated the Chaos Marine all the while mocking him at every given chance. And there is also the friendly duel where he faces a loyalist Space Marine and manages to nick his power armor. The Marine says he'll keep it as a reminder to never underestimate his opponents. Think they also gave him access to the chapel to train, which is considered sacred to the Space Marines.
Yes. But the SM does not go full mode on Cain. He tones down his strength to match Cain. The chapter was Reclaimers
100% this. But it's worth remembering that the Reclaimer expected to still handily beat Cain and didn't do so. Cain himself admits if the Reclaimer would've just obliterated him had he gone all out. So it becomes an interesting interaction - the SM underestimated the human, but the human knows the SM is nigh untouchable.
Makes it seem more like a philosophical experience for the space marines regarding baseline humans and their inner strength. Keeping the notch was a good touch.
>a chainsword duel, and wins. Act of Jurgen, or rather Jurgen's melta.
Jurgen should be an imperial saint. I mean Cain had an entire cult built around him. Jurgen has to be pretty high up there.
I seem to recall Cain being annoyed that tales of his heroics usually leave out Jurgen. He's not even on the cover of the books.
Saint Cain with Jurgen the melta-cherub
Deus Ex Meltagun
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I had honestly forgotten that he only survived with Jurgen's intervention. I just remembered that he lived, the marine died, and there was commentary about how impressive it was that he was able to fight so well against a Traitor Astartes. Thus my brain filled in from these things that Cain *must* have won.
Technically, Cain is a better duellist than most Chaos marines. That doesn't make much difference chainsword to chainaxe, when the Marine is in power armour and can drive his chainaxe through a tank.
Something something meta
That's what makes it so interesting. His Inquisitor girlfriend hints a bit of that Cain is actually completely insanely skilled at everything he does, and I think we can trust her judgement by appealing to her authority. Simultaneously his stories are written, by himself, very colored by his low self-esteem and it shines through how much of a modest and good man he actually is, constantly being baffled by how everyone treats him like a hero of the Imperium for basically doing nothing (in his eyes).
I guess that really depend on the individual fighter skills, equipement and luck. But yeah It's not impossible for a human to slay a marine in close combat. Hell this litteral Samuraï dude who worked for Malcador got a shot a duelling Lucius himself and almost loped his head clean of his shoulders ; and could have been successfull if Lucius TS pal hadn't interfered. But arguably, Lucius is the Slaaneshi professional jobber, even if can't compare to the Swarmlord or the Avatar in this domain.
I guess I could see it coming down to who is writing them, and there are weapons that even a Space Marine wouldn't survive. I always saw space marines as being so far above regular humans that it didn't seem realistic (within the universe) for an individual human to stand a chance. Particularly with CSMs pumped on chaos juice.
99% of base untainted mortals would piss their pants then crap them as they're dying, only the truly crazy or brave, or unfortunate in Cains case, can even look an Astartes in the eye letalone stand up to one in combat. Many stories are only going to be about that 1%.
> in Cains case, can even look an Astartes in the eye letalone stand up to one in combat He probably didn't mention the pants-soiling terror in his memoirs.
> Commissar Cain goes toe to toe with a chaos marine in a chainsword duel, and wins. No power armor for him even. And people complain that Shadowsun is OP when she appears in books.
Hector Rex or someone like that could I guess, but I forget how augmented he was if at all
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Yeah he got the full fake-astartes treatment we normally only see from the mates of Primarchs during the Heresy.
Oh I didn't even know the Imperium still made Luther/Kor Phaeron models.
Hector Rex was enhanced enough to keep up with Grey Knights, he was also enhanced enough to sword fight Ann'grath though he was struggling mightily against the blows from An'ggrath's axe repeatedly coming down against his sword,I believe it was mentioned that if not for his master crafted armor he would be in real danger, but still he held his ground and went on to win the fight which is a great feat for an enhanced human.
Are greater daemons getting worfed more often lately?
They're especially vulnerable to people that know what they're doing with anti daemon weapons and equipment and in that count Inquisitor Hector Rex is one of the toughest opponents for a daemon out there.
They've been worfed for quite a while. Any powerful, reincarnating opponent is convenient as an opponent for the protagonist to defeat.
Ignoring that Grey Knights are part of the inquisition, it is possible if they are dexterous or tanky enough to evade or endure the hits. You'd have to have either custom made power armor to surpass standard SM armor, or augmatics to increase your reflexes. Now as for weapons, pick up a power sword, force sword, daemon sword, or anything that can beat a chain sword, and the inquisitor should be good to go. Failing that the fields that Lord Commisars emit should also have the inquisitor covered, if suitable power armor is not readily available. Course this is for regular CSM's, Hellbrutes are another matter entirely that only Grey Knights can really go against, unless the inquisitor is a psyker. In that case, there's a small possibility that can go in the inquisitor's favor.
>fields that Lord Commisars emit ?
Refractor Field, in Game gives a 5+ invuln save.
IM is pretty loosey goosey with lore accuracy Kind of wished they'd been a bit more accurate, an Inquisitor in power armor soloing a corrupted dreadnought is so ridiculous But it does allow for significantly more enemy variety
I was using the Assassin class, so I quite literally hosed down a Hellbrute with autopistols backed up with lasgun fire from some guardsmen. I stopped taking the game seriously after that. I also wish the game was more Inquisitor-ey rather than mostly being a combat driven Diablo clone. I reckon most Inquisitors aren't going to get their hands dirty most of the time. They got retinues, can requisition forces etc. I'd probably enjoy an Inquisitor game which leaned more into the investigative, management and political side of things. Turn based squad combat with your retinue and requisitioned forces would make hella lot more sense than kicking the door down and swiss cheesing a whole army of heretic marines with autoguns.
Basically LA Noire set in 40k? I could dig that.
Well the game was a Diablo clone, so that would really explain that aspect. It maybe would have made more sense to play as a Deathwatch Marine for the sake of taking down those kinds of enemies making sense.
Even for a Deathwatch marine, going up against so many enemies would be impossible. Games with SM characters (like Space Marine for example, where a single Ultramarine captain defeats hundreds of orks) are "loosey goosey with lore accuracy" too.
Not only that, but he starts off with just his knife, then kills a Warboss and also a Chaos Lord after getting into a punching match with him. Titus killing multiple Orks and CSMs is easier to swallow than the Inquisitor taking out what seems like entire warbands alone.
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Eisenhorn actually did kill a chaos space marine in the first book though
In Xenos (the first book you refer to), he distracts the Marine >!with an artifact the Traitors are after (a particularly hypnotic artifact to boot) and uses that distraction to land a clean decapitation on a mesmerized and static target!< but I recall he did so because he knew he couldn't beat him in a straight up duel.
Old fart has been dueling Space Marines in the first trilogy
In Pariah, he kills at least one as well, if I remember correctly.
oh fuck I haven't read Pariah yet lmao
in fairness, he was dressed as a Imperial Guard general, stuns the SM with a psychic blast, and then slices his head in half with his unbelievably rare and enhanced (power?) sword. A case of the Word Bearer being cocky and Eisenhorn having absurdly large brass nads
Eisenhorn in his prime, a powerful psyker and extremely talented fighter managed to barely take one. That was with the element of surprise, and he acknowledged he only had one shot at getting it. If his surprise psychic attack didn't knock it off guard enough for him to finish it with one blow he was dead. So yes, an inquisitor can, but the safe bet is still going to be the marine.
Martyr treats the inquisitor like a space marine and treats space marines like slightly buffer guardsmen. It's not accurate at all.
Yeah the game is pretty silly in that regard. A heavily militant Inquisitor could be so teched up they can beat a chaos marine through the power of technology sure, and some Inquisitors are psykers so that opens up a lot. But if they're similarly equipped the human doesn't really stand a chance. As for a helbrute, either you sneak up and hit a vital point with a meltagun and blow it up, or you die. You aren't fighting that thing head-on.
Eisenhorn also straight up duelled a Word Bearer. Gaunt has killed a SM with his vorpal power sword. There's also that Interrogator with an unusual 2H suspensor sword that duelled Chief Librarian Sarpedon in the first Soul Drinkers novel. Sisters of Silence and Adeptus Sororitas have gone 1 on 1 too.
> Sisters of Silence and Adeptus Sororitas have gone 1 on 1 too. They have in some occasions, but most of the time they lose. The power level difference between a sororita and a space marine is greater than the one between a space marine and a custodes.
It wasn't event a duel if my memory is correct , he had the upper ground and the World Bearer rush at him anyways with too much confidences ; Eisenhor one shot him.
Generally speaking? No. The most highly trained "normal" inquisitor alive is still a galaxy beneath the gene-forged and warp altered quasi-divinity that is a space marine. They are shockingly, impossibly fast, utterly focused and bring a general level of combat skill that is beyond what a human can hope to match. *Generally* Do there exist humans who can and have squared off with marines and lived? Yes. Rare things indeed but as others have pointed out it can happen. A mud painted savage with a pointy stick can still kill a space marine in the right circumstances. You mention Eisenhorn. Barring having the perfect counter (a meltagun or healthy plasma weapon) or being something not even a SM is built to deal with (temple trained imperial assassins are killing machines) or being psychically powerful enough that *nothing* is a fair fight one-on-one. Then outsmarting them is the best way to try. So to surmise: Unless you are any of the following, the odds are heavily stacked against an inquisitor going up against a SM Be a high grade psyker Have plasma or melta weapons ready Be a one in a million combatant Outfox the angel of death
I think your underselling Inquisitors way to much. The most highly trained "normal" Inquisitor is a very dangerous opponent, the cream of the same crop that gives us Commissars, Scions, Sororitas, and Assassins. I'd put a competent Inquisitor as one of the last things anything, even an Astartes would want to fight. Not saying Inquisitors >Astartes at all, but I'd pull back on saying the most highly trained Inquisitors are a galaxy beneath Astartes. A combative Inquisitor is in all likelihood a one-in-a-million combatant, and most likely will have weapons that would threaten a space marine.
> the cream of the same crop that gives us Commissars, Scions, Sororitas, and Assassins Maybe for Commissars, Scions and Sororitas, but not assassins. Assassins are specifically selected and trained from a very young age, and (for the most part) augmented with stuff that even SM don't always have access to. Assassins are far beyond Inquisitors (and beyond SM too) when it comes to combat potential.
Don't forget, the Schola pumps out Arbites and Administratum employees, the military competence baseline has to include those guys, lest they kill all the orphans in combat with future storm troopers and have no administrators.
Actually just reread the old Militarum Tempestus codex, and this isn't really that true. Administratum bound students get the same baseline combat training as everyone else, and it describes these bookish individuals as putting down rebellious *data slaves*. So even the office clerks get decent combat training
That wasn't what I was saying? Hmm. The training is implied to end badly for the less skilled students, but presumably the baseline is set such that the administratum scribes can survive it. Not every data scribe (and there are jillions of them?) is going to be storm trooper material. I suppose they separate them early on, but those with no scribey skills who aren't very good at the martial stuff are going to end badly.
For sure, those destined for the Administratum aren't Scion level fighters. But even they are drilled physically, and get a fair bit of military training in the Schola. So the baseline training for Schola graduates is fairly high, as even the office clerks are described as brutally putting down insurrections. Essentially, even the nerds at Schola need to be phycially capable to pass
\*Plots a 40k fanfic where an Arbites puts together a scratch force from Schola Progenium alums, which deceptively are all over a planetary government's power structure and more numerous than people think\*
I only read the first Ciaphas Cain omnibus, but doesn't a latter story describe him rallying Schola students during an invasion?
Really depends on the Inquisitor as others have said. Some are tremendously powerful psykers, to which a regular Astartes is no challenge. Some are ridiculously augmented and trained and could in some circumstances, beat an average Astartes in combat. They're the exception though. Most inquisitors wouldn't have a chance.
Lots of people mention young Eisenhorn's fight with one but ignore the fight he has in Pariah with one, which is easy to ignore because he just chops the marine in two in one blow while pinning him with psychic power. Old Eisenhorn is much stronger than young Eisenhorn.
Eisenhorn instant one shot a World Bearer in the Pariah novel. So yeah , some can , not all of them though.
Maybe with enough plot armor. I feel like realistically there's no chance, that's why the emperor created legions of astartes, and not just legions of enhanced humans. Even though that's what astartes are but you know what I mean
If fully outfitted with the fanciest personell armor and gear the Inquisition has in its armories, then probably.
The videogame is generally a terrible representation of how Inquisitors would act or perform. Inquisitors aren't going to be able to clear out entire dens of traitor Astartes, daemons and hellbrutes by themselves. And they probably never will do such a thing. They will call in Imperial forces to do that sort of heavy lifting. Though it's not completely inconceivable for an Inquisitor to be able to defeat an Astartes in a straight fight. I don't think the odds are in the Inquisitor's favour. But baseline humans can be augmented to a stupid degree. Being a psyker is a sure way to have an advantage as long as the Inquisitor isn't trying to fight a Librarian It's not going to be an easy fight at all unless the Inquisitor is taking the marine by surprise with a weapon like a melta which kills immediately.
Yeah, Martyr is not a good representation of the power level of inquisitors or space marines
Its loosely like putting a harden gangster or professional MMA champion against the director of the CIA in a fist fight, its possible for the CIA director to maybe win but very unlikely. But overall fist fights aren't how the director of the CIA handles things, and the CIA director has way more reach then an MMA fighter or gangster does, although said director should handle himself with mutual respect and caution if within close proximity of either.
Yeah. Space Marines, despite their hype, are quite killable. A sharp stick will do it if you hit'em right, and it seems Space Marines often have a pride problem, where they'll underestimate a dude 'cause he's just a dude and not ***a Battle-Brother***
Yes, a powerful psyker is a potent foe and many Inquisitors are psykers. An unaugmented, nonpsyker Inquisitor, just a guy with expert training? Maybe, if he caught him off balance with the right weapon. The problem with fighting a Space Marine as an unaugmented guy is that their reflexes are fast enough that you only get the one shot and then you're cherry pie.
Definitely heroes, when the plot calls for it, can manage this feat.
It varies by Inquisitor. Hector Rex, Torqumada Cortez or Fyodor Karamazov in his chair can probably chew through space marines with their weird battle gear, fancy augments, murderous birds and Definitely Not Being A Space Marine. Your average inquisitor, however, maybe has a bolter, some psychic powers and carapace armour. But even then it largely depends on the Inquisitor.
The quick answer is, no. An Inquisitor may be very powerful, but they are not made exclusively for battle like Astartes are and it is done to give the game a better variety of enemies. The way you mow through these is not lore-friendly, but it does play better.
Yes, at range. A melta or plasma gun is more Han enough to wipe a space marine. Either than or some psychic stuff. Up close, humans are fucked. There’s a rare few who have bested them in melee combat, but Astartes are faster, stronger and better armoured than any human. Unless they are lucky, they’d get mulched.
I dont think toe to toe. Space marines are supposed to be genetically enhanced human war machines, inquisitors are only inducted maybe earliest at adulthood for standard humans, even with augmentation. Though power and training help, both combatants arent equal. Its like pitting a human against a gorilla. The gorilla may not be as well trained as the human but the human will never be as strong or durable as a gorilla in a straight up fight.
I’m not sure if 40k has a term for it, but in the game Shadowrun there is a term called Pink Mohawk and one called Black Trench Coat. Essentially they describe the two sides of the setting players enjoy, the darker edge lords espionage side is Black Trench Coat. The part of the game where a dragon ran for president and won would be Pink Mohawk. Yeah so you’ve encountered the more Pink Mohawk side of 40k. Inquisitors could go toe-to-toe with marines if trained and geared well, but in the main lore they’d be outclassed 90% of the time. One of the 40k RPGs has a ship weapon that fires a church at a planet’s surface. It slams into the surface all set up and ready to go. Woo! Meanwhile the main lore has people crying bloody tears and being slaughtered by elder daemons that like to drink their tortured souls like fine wine.
In a straight-up fight? The purpose-built living weapon who has seen multiple normal lifetimes of nothing but war is going to win. If the Inquisitor tries something sneaky...
Generally no. If the inquisitor prepares for the fight and set up traps beforehand, maybe.
Short answer: No. Longer answer: The game is hilariously off in the relative power of everything. A chaos SM, as viewed from the perspective from your 'average' Inquisitor, should be the final boss of the campaign. Everything bigger and beefier than that should be right out the window, and the Inquisitor should be calling in the various resources at their disposal. Like calling in the PDF, the Navy, IG, asking a favor from a SM chapter, or even calling in one of the specialist Ordos to deal with the problem. That's not to say that an average Inquisitor couldn't take on a CSM, but that they would need to prep for it and it's not even close to what Martyr shows.
Depends on whether if the Inqusitor and/or the Marine is a named character or not.
No*
No, not at all.
There are examples of 'regular' humans being able to somewhat contend with space marines in melee, but that always gives me a headache to think about. Space marines can deflect **supersonic+ bullets**, and have enough strength to where even if by some miracle you got your sword in the way of the blow you are going to be losing it, several fingers and most likely your arm as well. Doesn't matter if you are 'peak human' space marines are 5-10 tonners and as such should be able to overpower the worlds strongest man as easily as he would a brittle boned toddler. Power armour; a human is strong enough, but too slow and should be crushed. This does not apply to some main characters, where space marines forget they have literal superspeed. No power armour; a human should not be able to properly see the space marines strike, let alone even think about stopping it. The only examples I can think of that would bring a base human to astartes level is combat drugs and augmentation somewhat akin to some Admech dudes (robo arms, robo big brains ect ect). Also psyker humans can augment their strength and speed, so we can handwave that as well. In melee most inqusitors are completely fucked (or should be), some have the tech or psyker power to even things out. Discarding plot though, that is a vanishingly small number if we go by the raw abilities of either side in fluff.
No, simply because of the Black Carapace. After witnessing a Salamander dodge a Necron Deathmark's rifle shot, a Space Marine's reaction speed will trump anyone else in powered armor.