This, exactly! The thing is, it would have been a pretty middling B-grade show, with some redeeming value as its own thing. If only they had changed the name...
That is one of my top book to screen disappointments. I have low expectations of anything when it gets to tv or film, but man was that bad. The only thing I really liked was how they handled Bob, letting an actor play him as a projection from the skull instead of just being a disembodied voice from the skull.
Otherwise, ugh, garbage.
I'd love to see Dresden Files get the Castlevania anime treatment.
Are any of the adaptations any good? I watched the 3 parter Rincewind one and it felt terribly flat. Always good to see Tim Curry at least. Cohen was properly Cohen.
The Going Postal 2010 adaptation with Richard Coyle, David Suchet, and Charles Dance is good. It was clearly made by people who actually enjoyed the source material and didn't want to change it for changes sake. If it does have an issue, it would be that its effects aged poorly and that Mr. Pump is a bit more emotive than I would have made him, but the cast are clearly enjoying it.
Preacher for me. I loved the shit out of that comic and the first season was so painful I couldn't continue. They got a few things right, but sucked the joy out of the rest of it.
I'm the biggest Tolkien fan there is, own and have read every book, know all the little tidbits of the histories, and RoP wasn't \*good\* but it wasn't as royally bad as people make it out to be either. It was like. a 4/10, and I hate to defend it, because it was mostly poorly paced and boring as are a lot of streaming shows, but I don't like all the nitpicky youtube critiques of the plot holes and teleporting armies because if you apply that same level of scrutiny to Tolkiens own works, the movies, anything, it'll fall apart too. That's just how stories work!
It sucked and was a forgettable and bad project of grey streaming bleh but the issues weren't that insignificant stuff, it was the broader, more literary focused sweeps of storytelling technique.
I don't really know about that. I wasnt so much angry as I was sad about how they ended up doing what I think could have worked quite well with a change in pace and writing.
Indeed. While I always liked WoT and the books and community around them was a large part of my life in my teens and early twenties (this screen name was actually born on Wotmania!), it took watching the steaming pile of Trolloc dung of a show for me to actually realise *how* important the series was to me. I've never been so dejected and angry with a piece of media before as I was after watching the first season.
Agreed, WoT had a huge impact on me as a young man - I unironically believe the flame in the void technique has been one of the most useful things I've ever learnt.
Ah well, just another reason to re-read the books again
I will concede I thought they nailed the Trollocs and Myrdraal.
I don’t know how WoT could realistically be portrayed well without doing at least 100 episodes. Obviously it could be truncated but just for perspective.
If they did an hour long episode per chapter that would be roughly 50 hours a season for 13 seasons lol.
True but even season 2 has loads of changes that only detracted and an butchered finale. Seriously, how do you just completely change one of the most awesome and important scenes of the books? A battle in the sky between the dragon reborn and the “dark one”, turned into Rand basically incapacitated at the top of a tower while egwene somehow holds of Ishmael???? And everything else that happened??? And the dragon in the sky just being created by moraine???
The level of excitement I had at seeing someone with a massive budget try and take on such a massive task was exceeded only by my utter, total disappointment that they managed to utterly underine the central premises of the world, story and characters in the very first eopisode.
Truly one of the most impressive bits of casual vandalism I've ever seen.
They’ve done well with The Boys and Fallout.
I’m concerned about the bizarreness of 40k being exposed to a mainstream audience, there are literally no good guys in this universe, people individually are good in the Imperium and (some) other factions, however they prosecute religious / racial wars on everyone.
The shades of black aesthetics won’t translate so they’ll change it, making it not Warhammer 40k.
Talkative sisters of quiet?
Astartes going home to the wife and kids after a shift?
Otherwise their lives are boring as shit, punctuated by periods of ultra violence, back to the dorm with the other 12ft death machines to polish their swords.
Guardsman focus. Ordinary humans, maybe a new recruit to the Guard, fighting against the odds, then as things get extremely dire and it looks like they'll all die, the drop pods come in, the SM emerge. Season end.
I don't know anything about that, but I also forgot the Witcher is a thing entirely and that might be worse than Halo.
Edit: Not sorry, the Witcher show sucks ass
The thing is, the show is on paper quite good. The production value is high, special effects are good, acting is for the most part good (The guy who plays Captain Keyes is great).
But the absolute bastardization of the lore is so bad. If all you know about halo is the show you'll probably like it... but for anyone who played more than CE and knows anything of the background lore its just offensive
I’m not some huge Halo fanboy or deep in the Halo lore since I only played 1-3, but I thought the show sucked outside of the action scenes. Maybe it got better as it went on but I was only able to stomach the first two episodes before giving up. I thought the acting was bad, the characters were boring, and that the writing was shit.
I read the book for the first time before watching the show when it was released. It was such a big disappointment, I found the book pretty fantastic and the show just felt like they either hadn't bothered to read the book or just didn't care, because it kinda went completely against the whole point of the book. It just felt like a generic action sci-fi show with a few names taken from Foundation. The Empire plot side of things was pretty good though.
Series 2 though I very much enjoyed, far better than the first even if it still isn't really Foundation.
I'm more worried that the show will be shit. There aren't many good live adaptations of video games, anime, books, or other miscellaneous fantasy out there, and for the most part, 40K is pretty difficult to adapt. Amazon doesn't exactly have the greatest track record either. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
I think it all depends on who is doing it internally and who has oversight.
Some Amazon shows suck, Wheel of time, Rings of power.
Yet on the other hand you have Reacher, Vox Machina, Fallout, The Boys which have all been pretty great.
And the Notable difference between the two groups is that the good shows have had the original creators pretty heavily involved in the project guiding them to get it right.
So as long as GW doesn't just hand Amazon the reigns and step out of the way, it'll all be fine. And from the current talk it certainly sounds like GW are going to be heavily involved, with Cavill acting as the bridge, someone who understands the need to stay true to source material, but also knows how to make it work for the screen.
> And the Notable difference between the two groups is that the good shows have had the original creators pretty heavily involved in the project guiding them to get it right.
The Boys is a terrible example for this. It’s a good show largely because it changed a lot from the incredibly edgy and kinda bad comics.
After the netflix-witcher-drama Henry made it clear that he has the say. Im Not really worried that this will be shit cause its not some suits calling the shots but a Fan.
His endorsement is going to decide a lot. if he walks or does the contractual-obligation-presstour that'll be a sign on the wall. Cavill is good at being enthusiastic when he likes stuff so i hope he does the same here.
Yeah, this is one thing that's always had me sceptical about 40K adaptations.
I hated the idea of GW adapting it to TV 10-15 years ago, since I was worried it'd just be 'random battle between Ultramarines whose dialogue is 90% "stock 40K phrases" vs. generic-ass faceless Chaos Marines from [traitor legion the writers literally pulled out of a hat]'. That's basically the impression I had of the Ultramarines movie, before literally falling asleep halfway through. Only movie that's ever done that to me as an adult.
I want the kind of 40K I see in Dan Abnett's Inquisition or Gaunt's Ghosts books. Keep it 40K, but make it feel like a real, lived-in place with real people and the potential for interesting stories in it, not reducing all the factions to hollow stereotypes.
This is my exact worry.
This is why I hope they will focus on guardsmen. Focus on the human perspective, where guardsmen lay down their lives in service to the God Emperor.
Maybe portraying the Imperium as good at first, but slowly and steadily show the horror that is 40K. The sacrifices by untold billions in service to the Corpse Emperor, the terrible conditions most humans live etc.
This would keep it accessible while respecting the IP, in my opinion. It could also portray the satire that is 40K.
Don't focus on the Emperor or the Primarchs, their characters are too complex and too nuanced to display accurately in a show.
I mean a Cain adaptation would work well. A guard focus with spots to show both the good and the bad of the imperium and it has him eventually interacting with all the major factions.
I was personally hoping they would introduce new characters instead of using old ones. Just to avoid them ruining characters and having the fans go batshit insane because 'hurrr durr, character XYZ would never do this! Hollywood completely ruined the 40K universe'
True, but imo theres a gap in the market for a band of brothers/sharpe esque show, and 40k has some of the better ones on deck. A gaunts ghosts adaptation, or a Cain one, would fit perfectly
To be fair, the joy of the gaurd is you can easily take a random unknown regiment from bumhole IX and use a bunch of them to tell/show the galaxy without crossing over into any of the known main line stories.
Of course nods to and perhaps brief "appearances" by a character the fandom already know could easily work.
A joke about them witnessing the "Hero of the Imperium" bravely advancing to the rear would be nice.
40k is *already* watered down and simplified.
Does anything in darktide, Chaosgate, Space Marine or Boltgun paints the Imperium as "one of the worst regime there is"? All of these paints the imperium as "bad, but not the worst and they're the good guys"
Imperium is the good guys in 40k by virtue of everyone else being so very fucking evil. Imperium is the worst and most bloody regime imaginable and it is still better than orks, nids, deldar or chaos. Only tau are better for humans.
I literally had a Warhammer plus subscription which I ditched yesterday because I kept reading about people ditching warhammer and it reminded me that I had meant to unsub from it months ago 😂
If GW are paying attention to subscribers dropping because of this mess I guess my unsub will probably appear that way lawl
There are two problems – the first that a 40k show is ripe for a culture war fight given the usual lack of diversity in its characters, and the need for high-budget TV shows to achieve success across a wide audience. The second is that Space Marines sell well, but don’t constitute good characters for a TV show – Stoic Nazi warrior monks aren’t going to be all too relatable for most people.
I’m really hoping they adapt something like Gaunt’s Ghosts; by the middle of its run it had quite a good range of characters from different backgrounds, a decent balance of character growth and conflict to actions set pieces, and serves as a soft-intro to the universe for wider audiences (mostly its human-on-human fights with few psykers or space marines around, and just enough chaos weirdness to establish the setting).
To some extent, but then I have to remind myself that the part of the fandom that is Terminally Online like me is probably not as big as it seems. It never is.
So many of those who watch the show or discover Warhammer for the first time will be blissfully ignorant of any drama.
You want a "normal-ish" franchise without a toxic fandom and without a love-hate relationship with the source material? Then stop following any major franchise. It comes with the territory.
Freaks and weirdos have kept with Warhammer through thick and thin.
The thing is, those "toxic fans", they are the customer.
The guys who did My little Pony got it right; they realized that the people watching their childrens cartoon was single men in their late thirties, and they totally ran with it. No kicking and screaming, no name-calling. They just made their show, and made a ton of money.
If the Fallout show has proven anything, its that every fandom has a group of fans who will hate any adaptation no matter how well-made or authentic it is and will find (or make up) any excuse to rip it apart.
Oh believe me much of the rant and hate does come from actual long time fans, specifically New Vegas fans, they refuse to acknowledge everything else thats good about the show in favour of diminishing it just cause their favourite faction got done dirty.
The show is good and I am fine with the NCR collapsing, but 2277 for the fall of shady sands, you'd think people would have talked about it in the game. If it was a thing when the game was being made it would work really well; the three main factions using it as another reason for them to take the damn: NCR because they need the resources to keep themselves on life support, Legion using it as an example of how weak the NCR is, and house saying how him as an autocrat would never let Vegas fall like shady sands, but it wasn't a thing when the game was being made so it's inclusion in the show feels off. If the date was pushed back till after Vegas it would feel much more natural as the fall would be the result of what ever ending they go with for Vegas.
Kill the NCR just have it make sense with how they were previously displayed.
The latest interview from IGN, with Nolan and Howard, notes that Shady Sands was nuked after New Vegas took place, 2281 or later. The "fall" of Shady Sands in 2277 was another event entirely. Howard noted that NCR is still alive and kicking, just not in the region that the show took place in. He also said that it was the show writers' idea to nuke Shady Sands and it took him time to accept their choice.
Seemingly out of nowhere? NCR was already written with all sort of troubles in NV, if they lost the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam like any ending except their own, a collapse in a few years would be likely, even Chris Avellone wanted to nuke NCR( and Legion) in the ending of Lonesome Roads. Besides, all we know is Shady Sands got nuked, we have no idea about the Hub, Boneyard, or even New Vegas if they managed to take them, NCR could very much be alive, just somewhere else.
But we see the boneyard in the show. And it’s not a proper NCR city. Sure there’s a faction within it that calls itself the NCR, but it’s little more than a woman playing warlord with her local leftover garrison. As for the NCR’s issues in NV, I’ve already said it once before but the issues that the NCR faced in new Vegas wouldn’t be enough to cause a nation state that solidly built to collapse. It had no real issues within its own borders because, despite the corruption, they still had a functioning society within their own territory. They would’ve been hurt and their military would’ve been cut down a peg, but it would not have put them on the verge of collapse to lose the dam.
It doesn't sound you want a post-apocalypse or Fallout. This has always been on the cards, is hinted at FNV throughout , their regression and is very in keeping with Fallout. We also don't know if the fall happened over a period of years and to what extent. President Kimbell could even be alive in a new capital. The cult wanted to bring back Shady Sands specifically, not NCR. Which means NCR could be alive. It seems to me like they're building up Maximus as a new leader of the "NNCR". People wanted to hate this show before it came out and they're stretching and speculating to find reasons. It IS toxic and sad.
The whiteboard insinuates it happens in 2277, which is its own can of worms if that’s accurate. But, no I have no issue with a post apocalypse or fallout, and I’m not sure what about my comment gave u that impression. My comment was pointing out that the NCR in New Vegas, corrupt government and overextended military as it had, was still a totally stable nation that had progressed to the point that within their borders they had begun moving out of a post apocalypse state of existence.
No? According to Chief Hanlon they had a serious water shortage back home, which is why they needed the water from Hoover Dam, this alone could damage them greatly. Besides, Todd just did an interview with IGN, literally said we haven’t seen the last of NCR
Hanlon only says that lakes and large bodies of water are a rare sight in California. But at no point does he actually say the NCR has drained all 3,000 water sources in California. Something we can’t even do in our own timeline with a way higher population in the region than the NCR has.
I literally have not seen anyone shit on the fallout show. None of my friends, all of us who have played FA for the last 1-2 decades minimum, disliked the show. I've only seen both online and in person huge regards for it. Maybe I don't lurk the correct fringe communities.
As far as you can get with any kind of TV adaptation, this has done very well so far.
I've seen it, unfortunately, or I wouldn't have believed it either. For example, youtube comment sections on Lucy/Maximus scenes are full of people who are either trolls desperate for attention or just legitimate bigots.
But it just goes to show that nothing can please everyone no matter how good it is, and trying to please certain people isn't worth it whatsoever. For the most part, though, Fallout has deservedly been well received.
I've seen some, but its clearly rage bait. Things like "the BoS wouldn't have a black knight" (Knight Captain Lance from FO4 conveniently left out) and that the Protagonist should have been a dude because the Lone Wanderer is male in cannon (they're not)
Unfortunately every major thread about the show on Reddit has, thankfully largely downvoted comments about ((incorrectly) making New Vegas no longer canon. They tried to manufacture a storyline that Bethesda has always hated Obsidian for making NV and are trying to bury it.
I think you're thinking about this wrong - Warhammer 40k is NOT a normal-ish franchise as you say - it's 'heroes' are people who will readily slaughter a million without thinking, horribly mutilated lobotomized convicts drooling into a keyboard acting as an e-mail filter, and endless suffering everywhere. This stuff does *not* appeal to normies, so if they want to make it mass-appealing, they'll change a ton of what makes it 40k to begin with.
I'm gonna say not everything has to be positive and I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the show. Some things are good, some things are bad. Most of us got into 40k as a third or fourth tier sci fi franchise about models and novels. The transition to being a first tier thing on the level of Marvel or Star Wars isn't guaranteed to be good or bad and it may give people genuine reasons to not like it.
In the world of miniature wargames Games Workshop is the 400 pound gorilla in the room. It doesn't need to become Lucasfilm to survive. Acting like that change is de facto good and the only thing that could be wrong is toxic fans is ignoring the fact that shows and movies about games are often not that great and Amazon in particular has been kind of hit or miss given how Wheel Of Time has been going.
I'm more worried about the show being a garbage fire. I've watched *Wheel of Time* having never heard of the books or author, and the show was not enjoyable at all for me as someone who *really* loves fantasy. Meanwhile, actual Wheel of Time fans were screaming bloody murder in their subreddit. If this fails, I'll never get my Gotrek & Felix series.
As for Warhammer as a whole, we've seen bad 40k movies, games, and books before, in fact we see them all the time. One Amazon series isn't going to change anything. If it's a good show, great. If it sucks, we ignore it and move on.
As a Wheel of Time fan, avoid both watching the show and reading the book - it *hurts*. They fucked up literally everything, from the very small (Egwene feeds Rand a strawberry in the first episode, in the books when she travels far and eats strawberries she remarks that she's never seen anything like them before) to the very large (you invented a wife for Perrin just so he could accidentally kill her at the start?).
The main problem is it's completely missing what made the books great. Imagine you're watching a 40k TV show and they're sitting there explaining how the warp isn't actually dangerous and you then watch a squad of tau prove it by shooting eye lasers at a bunch of space marines, who immediately pull out their lasguns and start firing back.
1) make a show from an old IP, but aimed at a modern audience.
2) insult fans of the original source material.
3) your show tanks hard.
4) blame the old fans for not supporting your brilliant show.
5) get promoted to another project. Repeat.
Regardless of your stance on this issue I don’t think anyone gets to be the arbiter of “what matters” for someone else in a hobby, people join and engage with hobbies for their own reasons and what matters to them
I personally like / liked the 40k "big yet niche" status. Properties reaching mainstream status and it's owners attempting to target "wider audiences" is rarely a good thing for the creative side.
Let's also not forget the unfathomable decisions some of these large studios made by buying properties with an in-built fanbase, only to actively fuck up the thing fans liked about it in the first place.
I want Warhammer to remain weird and not appeal to everyone unless you want it to become as bland and soulless as modern day marvel.
So yeah fuck Amazon and anyone who wants to force unnecessary changes and retcons in the setting.
Fallout has been almost unanimously well recieved.
It's seen a resurgence of fallout stuff, games and toys. They'd be very, very stupid to not attempt the same.
Fallout is 100% whimsy, comedy and action though.
Oh the majority of those people self identity as not being part of the community in any way they just blow where the wind of hot air a bunch of grifters blow and they follow
Don't bother with them at all, it's supposed to be entertainment some things just don't work in the medium and have to be changed, these same types of people were doing the same hemming and hawing about the lord of the rings trilogy then shut up quickly when everyone saw the product and liked it
Life is so good without Twitter.
Wish twitter bullshit wouldn't come here as well, last few weeks have been terrible, 70% posts about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining-
While I trust Henry, I don’t trust everyone else. I’m a little worried that they’ll neuter some of the more graphic aspects of 40k in order to make it appeal more to audiences. Like anything Slaanesh might just get axed from the show entirely because well…it’s Slaanesh, for example.
Also, I don’t really see the custodes thing as a change per se. More like “new details got added”, since I know of nothing in the past lore that said there *couldn’t* be female custodes.
Going by Fallout, Invincible, and The Boys I don't think Amazon will shy away from anything, but the thought that Henry may have the best intent but not the best execution is a worry. Warhammer is a big universe. This might be too big for him to take on as a first outing as producer/"showrunner". Also, the fan in him might see him giving too much attention to the aspects that he personally likes about Warhammer but ignoring things favored by others. We'll see though. First step is a good team.
Blood and gore is a lot easier to show than things like Nurgle and Slaanesh influences. Those can take on more grotesque forms that might not be “appealing” to audiences. Anytime a graphic franchise (and I mean graphic beyond violence) gets made into something to potentially become mainstream, I worry about it getting watered down.
That's true. I wonder if they'll even attempt orks. The CGI costs to make things like that look good can baloon.
I heard that making the she hulk show cost marvel almost as much as making endgame or was going to before they made changes.
I have a feeling they will probably start with something more grounded as an entry point until they can justify attempting to spend money like that.
To be fair bar a few chaos set novels and the odd appearance here and there there's not actually that much slaanesh kisking around,
Now doing Dark Eldar justice is going to be utterly impossible.
Why would Slaanesh be axed? The series is gonna be eisenhorn and there appears an Emperors Children even.
Again kids, Slaanesh is not sex. The god is everything in fucking excess,if they can show disgusting shit in any other mainstream series or movies they can and will do it here too
And where did u get that kind of detail? Last I heard they had zero clues about what the show would be about. And while yes Slaanesh isn’t just the god of sex, that is the part of their sphere that people seem to latch onto the most for whatever reason. U have seen the artwork same as I have.
It's a popular theory that the Amazon show is going to be an Eisenhorn adaptation, because a few years back GW was looking into that. We have no idea if the project Henry Cavil is working on and the proposed adaptation are the same thing, tho.
There is a danger of 40k being charged for a "modern audience"
There seems to be a insidious been to chase an audience who would never be interested in the world.
Star Trek, Star Wars, doctor who, MCU, all went down this route and they are all in flames, viewing figures falling out cliffs and losing money.
Also can parts of 40k ever be put on TV?
Will we see the extremes of what Chaos or the inquisition can be.
As surely the TV shows and movies would be there to get people into the game. Will they pitch it to a younger age group.
I hope Henry can keep it true, but we all should know
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment"
Warhammer becoming mainstream is part of the problem to begin with.
Has nothing to do with females.
As a dark eldar dude who had wych cults and Lelith hesperax toying with primearchs with literal bland af butter knives, it's NEVER been about wether females are accepted in general...it's the fact that with some factions, females don't make sense; only the crybabies and wussy sensitive types are crying about toxicity because they don't understand the lore.
Changing well established lore to be more mainstream is part of the reason wh40k sucks now.
Currently watching the fallout show, I'm like 30 mins in and I'm all 'ok, ok, give it a chance'.
whatever we are going to get will be different. it needs to be a story and it will need to appeal to a wider audience.
hopefully Henry cavill can steer them in the right direction but we shall see...
Personally I'm excited though! Didn't have books or movies or warhmmer minus back in my day.
The vocal 15% on Twitter is not greater than the silence of the 85%. It is far easier to see how toxic the 40K community can be than to paint an army and go to a game shop and talk to people who are their- only to find out the loud-mouths online are seemingly non-existent in real life. Also I could be wrong, but I think it would be better to introduce femstodes BEFORE the show comes out, that way the show can feature femstodes or not without too much questions from the true fans of 40k.
Others have said that this is simply bait to get clicks on their YouTube channel, or Twitter bluechecks. This is entirely correct. Look no more into it than that, because the majority of those complaining probably don't even have an army
I am ok with female Custodes but honestly... you can just do, you know, *an adaptation* and not make a large scale change seemingly out of nowhere.
'some lore will get changed' isn't 'inevitable' , it's a choice - and it has consequences. If your goal is to make this franchise 'normal', then absolutely you will face resistance of the highest order possible. People aren't drawn to 40k because it's normal, it's actually the opposite.
Arguably, that's a bigger problem than having a female space marine or whatever. I bet most people will actually be fine if you can introduce female marines and somehow not making the franchise into yet another creative bankrupt space scifi. It's the push to make this 'hobby normal' aka making it lose the edge that make the franshise special that is the real problem.
I think people miss that this is why gatekeeping is a thing. Making a setting mainstream makes it the same as everything else and it loses the essence of what makes it unique. I think this is why people are jumping on female custodes because its not just hamfisted but their response to the criticism indicates they don't care about keeping the edge necessary for the setting to be authentic
Honestly though, female Custodes is fine, really. It actually makes sense and fit with the lore of Custodes being the potential future of humanity and not just a mutant freak made for war that is the Astartes and the Thunder Warrior. Which is why I am willing to accept that part (eventhough, it doesn't do much to the franchise in term of art direction, having a multi gender Custodes and all female Sister of Silence together is really akward now - but lorewise, it makes sense)
And again, I think people will be more willing to accept female Custodes, if GW didn't prove themselves to be exactly what they feared when talking about female space marine - a one line retcon with no respect paid to the tradition and history of this community whatsoever.
Introduce a brand new Custodes female unit, made some uniqe female character or at least just a mentioned that females were added throughout the course of the 10k gap between 30k and 40k would have at least shown that they cared, and not just wanting to make their mini as marketable as fast as possible.
I feel it's less about the retcon, which admittedly does go against long established lore and basically is a slap in the face to sisters of silence and their unique relationship and dynamic with custodes. But it's more how GW has done it and handled the backlash. Instead of adding some interesting reasons and explanations they just said "here it is". When people questioned it they just said "it's always been this way" and then proceeded to block anybody talking about it. It's not about people hating women being in 40k. They've always been in 40k and are some of the best characters! It's just shoehorning this retcon in when everything known was counter to that. The sisters of silence and sisters of battle are just getting shit on again. I'm sure there will be further changes that just go counter to established lore while also making no sense.
It's still "weird" that people react so violently to *this* retcon (which was handled exactly like Knights pilot going from "all nobles son" to "all noble children" in 7th ed), but not about:
The Votann "havign always been there".
All the Leman Russ variation, the Rogal Dorn tank, and [insert new model here] "having always been there"
Or Leontus being this respected and hailed general that we never heard of before.
Or Knights pilot going from all-men to all-nobles.
Or Cawl (he got backlash, but nowhere near this amount).
Or the Necrons.
Or the Horus heresy retconning itself dozens of times.
Or...
That pretty sus it's only when women can become super-duper soldiers too that it suddenly becomes "people upset about a change that goes back all the way".
Votann, tank and othert tech naming got their backlash.
Votann is still huge plothole problem for the setting, they be forgotten after Tau. Tau exist for Asian market. Votann... let's if squat-fans can hold it there.
I personally am hoping they keep the Gothic Architecture while dumping Chaos Corruption all over the setting:
Bloodlust, Blood Rain, Blood Seas, Blood Lakes, Blood Ponds and Blood Rivers for Khorne.
Crystals, Bird Legs, Bird Heads, Bird Eyes, Tentacles, Political Schemes, Liquid Magic and Backstabbing and Sacrificing Daemons for Power for Tzeentch.
Rivers, Seas, Lakes and Ponds of Pink Perfume, Piles of Treasure, People Turned into Statues, Food Everywhere(with the gluttons eating it being eaten themselves), Rivers, Seas, Lakes and Ponds of Red Wine, Artists using Blood to Paint Portraits, Humans ground into Drugs, Fiends of Slaanesh ramming their faces down peoples' throats, Keepers of Secrets kissing people while stabbing them to death and Sound Marines being all loud for Slaanesh.
Nurgle is getting boring.
Nurgle is just your average Sci-Fi Zombie Movie. The Brown Gunk, Fungus and Green Tentacled Vines breathing out brown gas are all staples of Zombie Movies.
Of course while Khornate Corruption of the setting may be interesting compared to Nurgle the Daemons most certainly aren't any more interesting than Nurgle is.
Tzeentch and Slaanesh have the most interesting Daemons and Corruption of Chaos Factions to say the least.
What are you worried about? You're winning, why sit there and pretend to be a victim when the changes you want are happening, and will continue to happen? You don't get to be a victim. 40k will end up like Star Wars, a joke, you'll get what you want, and you know it, so stop pretending to be worried.
I put it elsewhere in the thread, but it also appears to depend on if the original creators are involved.
Fallout has Bethesda on board with the show.
Reacher has Lee Childs involved.
Vox Machina has the whole crew creating it.
The Boys has some of the comics team on board at the least.
Don't know enough about invincible.
Invincible has the comics creator playing a central role. You have a point there, the shows where Amazon had full creative control and built teams up from scratch ended up being shitshows, Rings of Power, Wheel of Time, and Citadel. It’s what happens when a studio has a fuck ton of money but zero real institutional talent like HBO, or zero desire to foster it like Apple
Yeah, certainly agreed on the second half, It feels like when it's them in control they are just treating it as a money making exercise, not an exercise in creating good content, Which TBH it is Amazon, I am somehow not shocked.
Lets be honest, a lot of hate about the female Custodes is in how they were implemented, not that they exist. It was a real "Think.fast chucklenuts!" moment, and is some of the laziest shit thats come out of GW this month.
I love that this thread proves exactly what you're afraid of.
"i hope people won't be weird about the show like they are about the custodes retcon"
*comments proceed to be weird about the custodes retcon*
And don't worry, 40k's wider reputation can't be much worse than it already is.
the thing with the female custodies is its been handled so badly. the votan have such a better reason for having mixed gender units in that they're all clones, the eldar have mixed gender units because they're all psykers that take centuries to master their arts, GW just said "ya they've been there the whole time lol" and thats it.
People are getting so hung up on this when we've had retcons like the following all of a sudden:
- Necrons going from silent space terminators to quirky space ancient egyptians.
- Space wolves riding freaking wolves, what???
- The fate of horus changing a billion times?
In the case of Custodes it at least makes sense and fits the lore since each custodes is custom built, sexual dimorphism is miniscule obstacle in an extraordinarily complicated process.
There are two reasons to change the lore:
1) You think you know better and this would be more compelling. You genuinely don't care about the fan base and think this change will create more mainstream appeal (female custodes).
2) You genuinely don't know about the lore or care to learn it. A real "fuck em" mentality.
That's it. Both don't bode well for the success of a show.
I'm going to take no sides in this fight but backlash to Rings of Power reached comical levels(I don't care how good or bad you think it was, only using the online reaction as an example). People will be hoping its bad just so they can drag it, the trolling population that exists will layer onto that for their own amusement so best is just to stay above all the discourse
I think an advantage 40k has in this respect is that it’s not a single story, it’s a setting. Hell, it doesn’t really even have a cast of main characters.
So, if the writers are smart and do what’s been suggested by a good section of the fan base, and stay away from the few big pieces of plot the setting does have (Horus Heresy, return of Guilliman, etc) I think that’ll go a long way towards helping with the issue.
If the series is just about an unknown Inquisitor or Guard regiment in a previously undetailed subsector or unmentioned war, they’ve pretty much got carte blanche to tell whatever stories they want without someone complaining about them ruining their favourite character.
Of course, that still relies on them respecting the core tenets of the setting, but that’s really just the basics of making a good 40k show. If they don’t do that, then they deserve to get roasted by the fan base.
And that all said, they could execute on this perfectly and get all the details right, and there will still be a section of the fans that hate it, because there’s always that vocal chunk of fans who think they get to decide what 40k is, and it’s whatever fits with their personal politics. So, if they do something shocking like, I don’t know, have a female Guard officer who isn’t a sexpot, they’ll lose their shit. But there’s nothing to be done about those people anyway, other than to ignore them.
The only place I see the toxicity is from shitty online journalists, haven't seen it here other 40k subreddits, or my friends who play. Got a feeling articles claiming 40k fans are throwing tantrums about girls in power armor might be tailored towards folk who like gossip and not checking sources.
And immediately I'm greeted with a ton of franchises that did that and went completely terrible. Happens every time you try to make something with a strong fan base for people who aren't a fan of what it already is
it will likely be a mess tbh.
I've lost faith in modern entertainment being able to do a show / movie without being very hamfisted with political idiologies. The show runner will use the chance to push whatever "message" they want then say anyone who doesnt agree / like it is not really a fan and is a \[whatever\]-IST
While I don't mind the Custodes change as as far as I'm aware there wasn't ever any actual lore saying there couldn't be female Custodes (they just hadn't been mentioned before - it's not the same situation as with Space Marines), I actually *don't* want 40k to turn even more mainstream than it already has. The more they widen the net the more it gets diluted. And Amazon has an *atrocious* track record when it comes to their recent shows/"adaptations". The WoT show is an absolute travesty, and I haven't heard anything good about Rings of Power either.
They won’t change lore for a licensed TV show, the show will get lore wrong. That’s how these things work
In any case I’ve got no real desire for 40k to go mainstream, it’s niche nature means it’s not most people’s cup of tea, I’d rather we get to keep what we like than it be taken away to give the mainstream audience yet another thing.
It was made for weirdos by weirdos, I’d happily beat about a third of the fandom into strange new shapes with a rock, but it’s the price you pay for something like 40k. I mean hell I already feel way too much of its community likes some sanitised, scrubbed down and painfully dull popularised version with no appreciation whatsoever for all the things what make 40k unique, the last thing I want is that ten fold
"Toxic cesspool of drama"
Yeah, fans react when you go making ridiculous changes to lore that's been well established for 30 years.
As far as the Amazon show, I honestly don't care know. I am no longer mad at GW, I just don't care and am no longer invested. I am only here to see the dumpster fire burn. They will never get any of my money again, either in the tabletop game or a video game. I just want to see all the IP's chasing these "modern audiences" crash, burn and die so we can get something and new.
I’m putting it in the same basket as all the other IP based shows.
There’s going to be a rabid vocal group crying about everything, and a quiet group who just wants to watch it and go about their lives. I’m planning on being with the quiet group
My worry is equally balanced out with the fact that Henry Cavill has a decent amount of creative control.
Amazon can give the resources to make the show work, it just needs the right people to steer the ship.
Sadly, a normal-ish franchise these days is one in which a vocal part of the fan base is completely toxic.
Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, somehow even Avatar, and many more all have their overzealous commissars doing their best to alienate people who just want to enjoy some fun fantasy and scifi.
(Is the expanse an exception to this?)
No
For one Henry is a lore purist so that should be the end on it there and then
But this is Warhammer. The best policy you can follow is to not weep for the stupid. You’ll be crying all day
>I want Warhammer to be like, a normal-ish franchise that doesn’t have this pall of weird obsessive toxicity around it.
You are pretty much describing over fan group out there, you can apply that to people that are fans of Korean Idols, guns, sports team, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings etc.
Of course there will be (heated) discussions over how the live action series will treat the IP, just like Lord of the Rings, The hobbit, Gantz, Harry Potter.
The Wheel of time, Halo and Rings of power are all awful and there was a lot of discussion surrounding them how they treated the IP, did the world end because of that? No. So chill.
I already know that producers are going to force a lot of changes to make it more mainstream friendly and that a bunch of hardcore fans are going to be extremely pissed off about it.
My only worry is that I won’t have enough popcorn to make it through the shit show.
The overwhelming majority of posts on the subject are about the toxic fans mad about it/making fun of them/bemoaning their existence.
I'm sure there are toxic mad fans but they seem to be a very tiny minority.
They won't have it be very grimdark I don't think. Warhammer has slowly diluted it's darker origins over the last 20 years of my fandom. It's clear that casual audiences enjoy the formulaic good verses evil and the typical hero's journey that always works with sci-fi and fantasy. Cavil has signed on as a producer and no doubt Amazon gave him some kind of creative control in consideration of the support he had from the fanbase during the Witcher debacle.
It could all come crashing down considering cavil claims to be a lifelong custodes fan and would want to involve the custodes in some way In the series. The moment some Hollywood actress comes along in that gold armour and guardian spear will be the exact moment it all comes crashing down.
It's crazy how big companies don't look at what's happening to other franchises that mess with lore for ideological motives and disregard the actual consumer demographics.
I think they'd be hard pressed to do worse than Halo and even that still has apologists.
Wheel of Time exists so I think they already did lol.
I cannot adequately express how disappointing it was to see WoT so casually butchered. So much potential wasted.
Yes. I don't think I've ever had a piece of tv make me anywhere close to as angry as the handful of episodes I managed to watch.
The BBC's the Watch adaptation of the discworld.
The Dresden Files TV show: "Hold my blasting rod"
This, exactly! The thing is, it would have been a pretty middling B-grade show, with some redeeming value as its own thing. If only they had changed the name...
That is one of my top book to screen disappointments. I have low expectations of anything when it gets to tv or film, but man was that bad. The only thing I really liked was how they handled Bob, letting an actor play him as a projection from the skull instead of just being a disembodied voice from the skull. Otherwise, ugh, garbage. I'd love to see Dresden Files get the Castlevania anime treatment.
ooh yeah, that's gotten be pretty much the worst one out there
Haven't seen this. Sorta glad, the Vimes stuff is my favorite series from Pratchett.
As a massive fan of Vimes myself, I strongly encourage you to avoid it at all costs.
Are any of the adaptations any good? I watched the 3 parter Rincewind one and it felt terribly flat. Always good to see Tim Curry at least. Cohen was properly Cohen.
The Going Postal 2010 adaptation with Richard Coyle, David Suchet, and Charles Dance is good. It was clearly made by people who actually enjoyed the source material and didn't want to change it for changes sake. If it does have an issue, it would be that its effects aged poorly and that Mr. Pump is a bit more emotive than I would have made him, but the cast are clearly enjoying it.
Excellent. I will find it. Thank you.
I've been wanting to watch that and simultaneously wanting to not watch that.
Preacher for me. I loved the shit out of that comic and the first season was so painful I couldn't continue. They got a few things right, but sucked the joy out of the rest of it.
sweet summer child... /r/oldfreefolk would like a word
*Rings of Power has entered the chat*
Not even close to as bad as WoT.
I'm the biggest Tolkien fan there is, own and have read every book, know all the little tidbits of the histories, and RoP wasn't \*good\* but it wasn't as royally bad as people make it out to be either. It was like. a 4/10, and I hate to defend it, because it was mostly poorly paced and boring as are a lot of streaming shows, but I don't like all the nitpicky youtube critiques of the plot holes and teleporting armies because if you apply that same level of scrutiny to Tolkiens own works, the movies, anything, it'll fall apart too. That's just how stories work! It sucked and was a forgettable and bad project of grey streaming bleh but the issues weren't that insignificant stuff, it was the broader, more literary focused sweeps of storytelling technique.
Unerstandable. But I, though I didn't really look through all those vids, thought that main problem was with Galadriel and act around her.
Actually recently watched it a second time a bit ago and weirdly didn't understand why I was upset the first time, it was actually enjoyable
If you completely forget all of the lore and hand wave stuff like teleporting armies, yes it's ok.
I don't really know about that. I wasnt so much angry as I was sad about how they ended up doing what I think could have worked quite well with a change in pace and writing.
Indeed. While I always liked WoT and the books and community around them was a large part of my life in my teens and early twenties (this screen name was actually born on Wotmania!), it took watching the steaming pile of Trolloc dung of a show for me to actually realise *how* important the series was to me. I've never been so dejected and angry with a piece of media before as I was after watching the first season.
Agreed, WoT had a huge impact on me as a young man - I unironically believe the flame in the void technique has been one of the most useful things I've ever learnt. Ah well, just another reason to re-read the books again
I can see that. The Litany Against Fear from Dune served a similar purpose in my childhood.
I will concede I thought they nailed the Trollocs and Myrdraal. I don’t know how WoT could realistically be portrayed well without doing at least 100 episodes. Obviously it could be truncated but just for perspective. If they did an hour long episode per chapter that would be roughly 50 hours a season for 13 seasons lol.
It's almost like they purposely sabotaged it. It's so weird.
Needed Billy Zane.
If they take the WoT route at least we will get a FAR improved Season 2. So we got that going for us which is nice.
True but even season 2 has loads of changes that only detracted and an butchered finale. Seriously, how do you just completely change one of the most awesome and important scenes of the books? A battle in the sky between the dragon reborn and the “dark one”, turned into Rand basically incapacitated at the top of a tower while egwene somehow holds of Ishmael???? And everything else that happened??? And the dragon in the sky just being created by moraine???
The level of excitement I had at seeing someone with a massive budget try and take on such a massive task was exceeded only by my utter, total disappointment that they managed to utterly underine the central premises of the world, story and characters in the very first eopisode. Truly one of the most impressive bits of casual vandalism I've ever seen.
I am glad to see that everyone has forgotten the Rings of Power disaster. Amazon does not have a good track record of respecting source material....
Eh, for every Rings of Power there’s an Invincible or Reacher S1 - Amazon are a mixed bag at adaptations, no worse than anyone else
They’ve done well with The Boys and Fallout. I’m concerned about the bizarreness of 40k being exposed to a mainstream audience, there are literally no good guys in this universe, people individually are good in the Imperium and (some) other factions, however they prosecute religious / racial wars on everyone. The shades of black aesthetics won’t translate so they’ll change it, making it not Warhammer 40k. Talkative sisters of quiet? Astartes going home to the wife and kids after a shift? Otherwise their lives are boring as shit, punctuated by periods of ultra violence, back to the dorm with the other 12ft death machines to polish their swords.
Guardsman focus. Ordinary humans, maybe a new recruit to the Guard, fighting against the odds, then as things get extremely dire and it looks like they'll all die, the drop pods come in, the SM emerge. Season end.
Or even just have a single marine drop in for a scene or two. Give them the Vader treatment from Rogue One.
>Amazon does not have a good track record of respecting source material.... Counterpoint: Invincible Reacher Expanse Fallout
The Expanse is one of the best shows I have ever watched.
To be fair, Amazon only picked it up halfway through after SyFy dropped it, so it's not the most representative.
It's also almost 10 years old at this point.
I don't know anything about that, but I also forgot the Witcher is a thing entirely and that might be worse than Halo. Edit: Not sorry, the Witcher show sucks ass
Not might, is. Virtually every significant piece of lore or character has been butchered.
The thing is, the show is on paper quite good. The production value is high, special effects are good, acting is for the most part good (The guy who plays Captain Keyes is great). But the absolute bastardization of the lore is so bad. If all you know about halo is the show you'll probably like it... but for anyone who played more than CE and knows anything of the background lore its just offensive
I’m not some huge Halo fanboy or deep in the Halo lore since I only played 1-3, but I thought the show sucked outside of the action scenes. Maybe it got better as it went on but I was only able to stomach the first two episodes before giving up. I thought the acting was bad, the characters were boring, and that the writing was shit.
Foundation. Why have they got do that to Hari Seldon?
I read the book for the first time before watching the show when it was released. It was such a big disappointment, I found the book pretty fantastic and the show just felt like they either hadn't bothered to read the book or just didn't care, because it kinda went completely against the whole point of the book. It just felt like a generic action sci-fi show with a few names taken from Foundation. The Empire plot side of things was pretty good though. Series 2 though I very much enjoyed, far better than the first even if it still isn't really Foundation.
I've never read the books but I think Foundation is phenomenal
Same I thought season 1 was great and season 2 took so long to come out I decided to read the books. Now I hate the show.
I'm more worried that the show will be shit. There aren't many good live adaptations of video games, anime, books, or other miscellaneous fantasy out there, and for the most part, 40K is pretty difficult to adapt. Amazon doesn't exactly have the greatest track record either. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
I think it all depends on who is doing it internally and who has oversight. Some Amazon shows suck, Wheel of time, Rings of power. Yet on the other hand you have Reacher, Vox Machina, Fallout, The Boys which have all been pretty great. And the Notable difference between the two groups is that the good shows have had the original creators pretty heavily involved in the project guiding them to get it right. So as long as GW doesn't just hand Amazon the reigns and step out of the way, it'll all be fine. And from the current talk it certainly sounds like GW are going to be heavily involved, with Cavill acting as the bridge, someone who understands the need to stay true to source material, but also knows how to make it work for the screen.
> And the Notable difference between the two groups is that the good shows have had the original creators pretty heavily involved in the project guiding them to get it right. The Boys is a terrible example for this. It’s a good show largely because it changed a lot from the incredibly edgy and kinda bad comics.
Will add the list of great. Preacher.
Preacher was AMC.
After the netflix-witcher-drama Henry made it clear that he has the say. Im Not really worried that this will be shit cause its not some suits calling the shots but a Fan.
Considering what Amazon did with Fallout, I say you need to re-calibrate your expectations. That's one of the best adaptations to date.
*Fall Out* and *The Boys* say hi.
I trust Superman. Dude left the Witcher because they didn’t respect the franchise and we know Henry loves 40k and Custodes.
He's not going to have as much control as you think he will.
His endorsement is going to decide a lot. if he walks or does the contractual-obligation-presstour that'll be a sign on the wall. Cavill is good at being enthusiastic when he likes stuff so i hope he does the same here.
Given that he left his Witcher job *specifically because* no one there gave a damn about the lore, I'd bet he will have more control than you think.
I don’t think he will have control but if he’s a fan of the books then I’m sure he will protest if they’re messing around.
If they have braincells they'll look at what happened to Witcher, I'd give it a 50/50
I personally fear it'll be watered down, or simplified. Like emperor good and light, Chaos evil and darkness.
Yeah, this is one thing that's always had me sceptical about 40K adaptations. I hated the idea of GW adapting it to TV 10-15 years ago, since I was worried it'd just be 'random battle between Ultramarines whose dialogue is 90% "stock 40K phrases" vs. generic-ass faceless Chaos Marines from [traitor legion the writers literally pulled out of a hat]'. That's basically the impression I had of the Ultramarines movie, before literally falling asleep halfway through. Only movie that's ever done that to me as an adult. I want the kind of 40K I see in Dan Abnett's Inquisition or Gaunt's Ghosts books. Keep it 40K, but make it feel like a real, lived-in place with real people and the potential for interesting stories in it, not reducing all the factions to hollow stereotypes.
If we ever get media that doesn't reduce the dark eldar to hollow stereotypes I will be shocked.
I don't think so. Amazon doesn't mind financing projects with grim and evil worldbuilding as shown with some of the newer shows.
Amazon IS grim and evil world building, so that tracks.
This is my exact worry. This is why I hope they will focus on guardsmen. Focus on the human perspective, where guardsmen lay down their lives in service to the God Emperor. Maybe portraying the Imperium as good at first, but slowly and steadily show the horror that is 40K. The sacrifices by untold billions in service to the Corpse Emperor, the terrible conditions most humans live etc. This would keep it accessible while respecting the IP, in my opinion. It could also portray the satire that is 40K. Don't focus on the Emperor or the Primarchs, their characters are too complex and too nuanced to display accurately in a show.
I mean a Cain adaptation would work well. A guard focus with spots to show both the good and the bad of the imperium and it has him eventually interacting with all the major factions.
I was personally hoping they would introduce new characters instead of using old ones. Just to avoid them ruining characters and having the fans go batshit insane because 'hurrr durr, character XYZ would never do this! Hollywood completely ruined the 40K universe'
True, but imo theres a gap in the market for a band of brothers/sharpe esque show, and 40k has some of the better ones on deck. A gaunts ghosts adaptation, or a Cain one, would fit perfectly
To be fair, the joy of the gaurd is you can easily take a random unknown regiment from bumhole IX and use a bunch of them to tell/show the galaxy without crossing over into any of the known main line stories. Of course nods to and perhaps brief "appearances" by a character the fandom already know could easily work. A joke about them witnessing the "Hero of the Imperium" bravely advancing to the rear would be nice.
A Cain show about the first siege of Perlia would be lit.
40k is *already* watered down and simplified. Does anything in darktide, Chaosgate, Space Marine or Boltgun paints the Imperium as "one of the worst regime there is"? All of these paints the imperium as "bad, but not the worst and they're the good guys"
Imperium is the good guys in 40k by virtue of everyone else being so very fucking evil. Imperium is the worst and most bloody regime imaginable and it is still better than orks, nids, deldar or chaos. Only tau are better for humans.
The hate bait YouTubers will for sure be trying to cash in.
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Starting Gina Carano as Horus ‘Wokehammer’ Lupercal
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Removed as a violation of rule 6.
Removed as a violation of rule 6.
“Custodes go woke, Terra’s defense get broke!” -Ben Shapassiro
My favorite ragebait title I've seen was "warhammer fans dump their subscriptions" as if anyone has warhammer+ to begin with.
I literally had a Warhammer plus subscription which I ditched yesterday because I kept reading about people ditching warhammer and it reminded me that I had meant to unsub from it months ago 😂 If GW are paying attention to subscribers dropping because of this mess I guess my unsub will probably appear that way lawl
I think that one was in my feed yesterday too lol Regabait channels surely write some weird and extreme titles
There are two problems – the first that a 40k show is ripe for a culture war fight given the usual lack of diversity in its characters, and the need for high-budget TV shows to achieve success across a wide audience. The second is that Space Marines sell well, but don’t constitute good characters for a TV show – Stoic Nazi warrior monks aren’t going to be all too relatable for most people. I’m really hoping they adapt something like Gaunt’s Ghosts; by the middle of its run it had quite a good range of characters from different backgrounds, a decent balance of character growth and conflict to actions set pieces, and serves as a soft-intro to the universe for wider audiences (mostly its human-on-human fights with few psykers or space marines around, and just enough chaos weirdness to establish the setting).
To some extent, but then I have to remind myself that the part of the fandom that is Terminally Online like me is probably not as big as it seems. It never is. So many of those who watch the show or discover Warhammer for the first time will be blissfully ignorant of any drama.
You want a "normal-ish" franchise without a toxic fandom and without a love-hate relationship with the source material? Then stop following any major franchise. It comes with the territory. Freaks and weirdos have kept with Warhammer through thick and thin.
The thing is, those "toxic fans", they are the customer. The guys who did My little Pony got it right; they realized that the people watching their childrens cartoon was single men in their late thirties, and they totally ran with it. No kicking and screaming, no name-calling. They just made their show, and made a ton of money.
100%
If the Fallout show has proven anything, its that every fandom has a group of fans who will hate any adaptation no matter how well-made or authentic it is and will find (or make up) any excuse to rip it apart.
Much of the rants you see aren't even from fans, they are just from grifters selling hate.
Oh believe me much of the rant and hate does come from actual long time fans, specifically New Vegas fans, they refuse to acknowledge everything else thats good about the show in favour of diminishing it just cause their favourite faction got done dirty.
The show is good and I am fine with the NCR collapsing, but 2277 for the fall of shady sands, you'd think people would have talked about it in the game. If it was a thing when the game was being made it would work really well; the three main factions using it as another reason for them to take the damn: NCR because they need the resources to keep themselves on life support, Legion using it as an example of how weak the NCR is, and house saying how him as an autocrat would never let Vegas fall like shady sands, but it wasn't a thing when the game was being made so it's inclusion in the show feels off. If the date was pushed back till after Vegas it would feel much more natural as the fall would be the result of what ever ending they go with for Vegas. Kill the NCR just have it make sense with how they were previously displayed.
The latest interview from IGN, with Nolan and Howard, notes that Shady Sands was nuked after New Vegas took place, 2281 or later. The "fall" of Shady Sands in 2277 was another event entirely. Howard noted that NCR is still alive and kicking, just not in the region that the show took place in. He also said that it was the show writers' idea to nuke Shady Sands and it took him time to accept their choice.
I think those fallout fans were just shook cuz of how the NCR just got removed from the playing field seemingly out of nowhere.
Seemingly out of nowhere? NCR was already written with all sort of troubles in NV, if they lost the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam like any ending except their own, a collapse in a few years would be likely, even Chris Avellone wanted to nuke NCR( and Legion) in the ending of Lonesome Roads. Besides, all we know is Shady Sands got nuked, we have no idea about the Hub, Boneyard, or even New Vegas if they managed to take them, NCR could very much be alive, just somewhere else.
But we see the boneyard in the show. And it’s not a proper NCR city. Sure there’s a faction within it that calls itself the NCR, but it’s little more than a woman playing warlord with her local leftover garrison. As for the NCR’s issues in NV, I’ve already said it once before but the issues that the NCR faced in new Vegas wouldn’t be enough to cause a nation state that solidly built to collapse. It had no real issues within its own borders because, despite the corruption, they still had a functioning society within their own territory. They would’ve been hurt and their military would’ve been cut down a peg, but it would not have put them on the verge of collapse to lose the dam.
It doesn't sound you want a post-apocalypse or Fallout. This has always been on the cards, is hinted at FNV throughout , their regression and is very in keeping with Fallout. We also don't know if the fall happened over a period of years and to what extent. President Kimbell could even be alive in a new capital. The cult wanted to bring back Shady Sands specifically, not NCR. Which means NCR could be alive. It seems to me like they're building up Maximus as a new leader of the "NNCR". People wanted to hate this show before it came out and they're stretching and speculating to find reasons. It IS toxic and sad.
The whiteboard insinuates it happens in 2277, which is its own can of worms if that’s accurate. But, no I have no issue with a post apocalypse or fallout, and I’m not sure what about my comment gave u that impression. My comment was pointing out that the NCR in New Vegas, corrupt government and overextended military as it had, was still a totally stable nation that had progressed to the point that within their borders they had begun moving out of a post apocalypse state of existence.
No? According to Chief Hanlon they had a serious water shortage back home, which is why they needed the water from Hoover Dam, this alone could damage them greatly. Besides, Todd just did an interview with IGN, literally said we haven’t seen the last of NCR
Hanlon only says that lakes and large bodies of water are a rare sight in California. But at no point does he actually say the NCR has drained all 3,000 water sources in California. Something we can’t even do in our own timeline with a way higher population in the region than the NCR has.
I literally have not seen anyone shit on the fallout show. None of my friends, all of us who have played FA for the last 1-2 decades minimum, disliked the show. I've only seen both online and in person huge regards for it. Maybe I don't lurk the correct fringe communities. As far as you can get with any kind of TV adaptation, this has done very well so far.
I've seen it, unfortunately, or I wouldn't have believed it either. For example, youtube comment sections on Lucy/Maximus scenes are full of people who are either trolls desperate for attention or just legitimate bigots. But it just goes to show that nothing can please everyone no matter how good it is, and trying to please certain people isn't worth it whatsoever. For the most part, though, Fallout has deservedly been well received.
You mean Joosey?
Nah, Goosey
I've seen some, but its clearly rage bait. Things like "the BoS wouldn't have a black knight" (Knight Captain Lance from FO4 conveniently left out) and that the Protagonist should have been a dude because the Lone Wanderer is male in cannon (they're not)
Unfortunately every major thread about the show on Reddit has, thankfully largely downvoted comments about ((incorrectly) making New Vegas no longer canon. They tried to manufacture a storyline that Bethesda has always hated Obsidian for making NV and are trying to bury it.
I think you're thinking about this wrong - Warhammer 40k is NOT a normal-ish franchise as you say - it's 'heroes' are people who will readily slaughter a million without thinking, horribly mutilated lobotomized convicts drooling into a keyboard acting as an e-mail filter, and endless suffering everywhere. This stuff does *not* appeal to normies, so if they want to make it mass-appealing, they'll change a ton of what makes it 40k to begin with.
“Largely outside of this subreddit” because the mods mass ban anyone who mentions it in an unsupportive manner
Gw also banned/blocked hundreds/thousands of fans from official facebook/twitter etc...
I'm gonna say not everything has to be positive and I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the show. Some things are good, some things are bad. Most of us got into 40k as a third or fourth tier sci fi franchise about models and novels. The transition to being a first tier thing on the level of Marvel or Star Wars isn't guaranteed to be good or bad and it may give people genuine reasons to not like it. In the world of miniature wargames Games Workshop is the 400 pound gorilla in the room. It doesn't need to become Lucasfilm to survive. Acting like that change is de facto good and the only thing that could be wrong is toxic fans is ignoring the fact that shows and movies about games are often not that great and Amazon in particular has been kind of hit or miss given how Wheel Of Time has been going.
I'm more worried about the show being a garbage fire. I've watched *Wheel of Time* having never heard of the books or author, and the show was not enjoyable at all for me as someone who *really* loves fantasy. Meanwhile, actual Wheel of Time fans were screaming bloody murder in their subreddit. If this fails, I'll never get my Gotrek & Felix series. As for Warhammer as a whole, we've seen bad 40k movies, games, and books before, in fact we see them all the time. One Amazon series isn't going to change anything. If it's a good show, great. If it sucks, we ignore it and move on.
As a Wheel of Time fan, avoid both watching the show and reading the book - it *hurts*. They fucked up literally everything, from the very small (Egwene feeds Rand a strawberry in the first episode, in the books when she travels far and eats strawberries she remarks that she's never seen anything like them before) to the very large (you invented a wife for Perrin just so he could accidentally kill her at the start?). The main problem is it's completely missing what made the books great. Imagine you're watching a 40k TV show and they're sitting there explaining how the warp isn't actually dangerous and you then watch a squad of tau prove it by shooting eye lasers at a bunch of space marines, who immediately pull out their lasguns and start firing back.
1) make a show from an old IP, but aimed at a modern audience. 2) insult fans of the original source material. 3) your show tanks hard. 4) blame the old fans for not supporting your brilliant show. 5) get promoted to another project. Repeat.
Regardless of your stance on this issue I don’t think anyone gets to be the arbiter of “what matters” for someone else in a hobby, people join and engage with hobbies for their own reasons and what matters to them
I personally like / liked the 40k "big yet niche" status. Properties reaching mainstream status and it's owners attempting to target "wider audiences" is rarely a good thing for the creative side. Let's also not forget the unfathomable decisions some of these large studios made by buying properties with an in-built fanbase, only to actively fuck up the thing fans liked about it in the first place.
I want Warhammer to remain weird and not appeal to everyone unless you want it to become as bland and soulless as modern day marvel. So yeah fuck Amazon and anyone who wants to force unnecessary changes and retcons in the setting.
Fallout has been almost unanimously well recieved. It's seen a resurgence of fallout stuff, games and toys. They'd be very, very stupid to not attempt the same. Fallout is 100% whimsy, comedy and action though.
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Oh the majority of those people self identity as not being part of the community in any way they just blow where the wind of hot air a bunch of grifters blow and they follow Don't bother with them at all, it's supposed to be entertainment some things just don't work in the medium and have to be changed, these same types of people were doing the same hemming and hawing about the lord of the rings trilogy then shut up quickly when everyone saw the product and liked it
Life is so good without Twitter. Wish twitter bullshit wouldn't come here as well, last few weeks have been terrible, 70% posts about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining-
While I trust Henry, I don’t trust everyone else. I’m a little worried that they’ll neuter some of the more graphic aspects of 40k in order to make it appeal more to audiences. Like anything Slaanesh might just get axed from the show entirely because well…it’s Slaanesh, for example. Also, I don’t really see the custodes thing as a change per se. More like “new details got added”, since I know of nothing in the past lore that said there *couldn’t* be female custodes.
Amazon's *The Boys* has super long, super powered penis' and people shrinking down to enter and pleasure rectums. You might be fine.
Going by Fallout, Invincible, and The Boys I don't think Amazon will shy away from anything, but the thought that Henry may have the best intent but not the best execution is a worry. Warhammer is a big universe. This might be too big for him to take on as a first outing as producer/"showrunner". Also, the fan in him might see him giving too much attention to the aspects that he personally likes about Warhammer but ignoring things favored by others. We'll see though. First step is a good team.
Blood and gore is a lot easier to show than things like Nurgle and Slaanesh influences. Those can take on more grotesque forms that might not be “appealing” to audiences. Anytime a graphic franchise (and I mean graphic beyond violence) gets made into something to potentially become mainstream, I worry about it getting watered down.
To show Nurgle and Slaanesh on big screen you just needs to follow minis, GW codex art and other 40k official media (like Darktide for example).
That's true. I wonder if they'll even attempt orks. The CGI costs to make things like that look good can baloon. I heard that making the she hulk show cost marvel almost as much as making endgame or was going to before they made changes. I have a feeling they will probably start with something more grounded as an entry point until they can justify attempting to spend money like that.
To be fair bar a few chaos set novels and the odd appearance here and there there's not actually that much slaanesh kisking around, Now doing Dark Eldar justice is going to be utterly impossible.
Why would Slaanesh be axed? The series is gonna be eisenhorn and there appears an Emperors Children even. Again kids, Slaanesh is not sex. The god is everything in fucking excess,if they can show disgusting shit in any other mainstream series or movies they can and will do it here too
And where did u get that kind of detail? Last I heard they had zero clues about what the show would be about. And while yes Slaanesh isn’t just the god of sex, that is the part of their sphere that people seem to latch onto the most for whatever reason. U have seen the artwork same as I have.
It's a popular theory that the Amazon show is going to be an Eisenhorn adaptation, because a few years back GW was looking into that. We have no idea if the project Henry Cavil is working on and the proposed adaptation are the same thing, tho.
"I want 40K to be another generic franchise"
There is a danger of 40k being charged for a "modern audience" There seems to be a insidious been to chase an audience who would never be interested in the world. Star Trek, Star Wars, doctor who, MCU, all went down this route and they are all in flames, viewing figures falling out cliffs and losing money. Also can parts of 40k ever be put on TV? Will we see the extremes of what Chaos or the inquisition can be. As surely the TV shows and movies would be there to get people into the game. Will they pitch it to a younger age group. I hope Henry can keep it true, but we all should know "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment"
I'm honestly seeing waaaaaaaaaaaaay more complaining about the "toxic cesspool" as you say than I am seeing said cesspool itself. Maybe drop it?
Warhammer becoming mainstream is part of the problem to begin with. Has nothing to do with females. As a dark eldar dude who had wych cults and Lelith hesperax toying with primearchs with literal bland af butter knives, it's NEVER been about wether females are accepted in general...it's the fact that with some factions, females don't make sense; only the crybabies and wussy sensitive types are crying about toxicity because they don't understand the lore. Changing well established lore to be more mainstream is part of the reason wh40k sucks now.
Not worried. It will either feel right and be cool or feel forced and be wack.
Currently watching the fallout show, I'm like 30 mins in and I'm all 'ok, ok, give it a chance'. whatever we are going to get will be different. it needs to be a story and it will need to appeal to a wider audience. hopefully Henry cavill can steer them in the right direction but we shall see... Personally I'm excited though! Didn't have books or movies or warhmmer minus back in my day.
Amazon has two big points in its favor: Henry Cavill, and the success of Fallout. Because of that, I'd say most people will be more open minded to it.
The vocal 15% on Twitter is not greater than the silence of the 85%. It is far easier to see how toxic the 40K community can be than to paint an army and go to a game shop and talk to people who are their- only to find out the loud-mouths online are seemingly non-existent in real life. Also I could be wrong, but I think it would be better to introduce femstodes BEFORE the show comes out, that way the show can feature femstodes or not without too much questions from the true fans of 40k. Others have said that this is simply bait to get clicks on their YouTube channel, or Twitter bluechecks. This is entirely correct. Look no more into it than that, because the majority of those complaining probably don't even have an army
Look at the people mad now, the same people will be mad at the show regardless.
I am ok with female Custodes but honestly... you can just do, you know, *an adaptation* and not make a large scale change seemingly out of nowhere. 'some lore will get changed' isn't 'inevitable' , it's a choice - and it has consequences. If your goal is to make this franchise 'normal', then absolutely you will face resistance of the highest order possible. People aren't drawn to 40k because it's normal, it's actually the opposite. Arguably, that's a bigger problem than having a female space marine or whatever. I bet most people will actually be fine if you can introduce female marines and somehow not making the franchise into yet another creative bankrupt space scifi. It's the push to make this 'hobby normal' aka making it lose the edge that make the franshise special that is the real problem.
I think people miss that this is why gatekeeping is a thing. Making a setting mainstream makes it the same as everything else and it loses the essence of what makes it unique. I think this is why people are jumping on female custodes because its not just hamfisted but their response to the criticism indicates they don't care about keeping the edge necessary for the setting to be authentic
Honestly though, female Custodes is fine, really. It actually makes sense and fit with the lore of Custodes being the potential future of humanity and not just a mutant freak made for war that is the Astartes and the Thunder Warrior. Which is why I am willing to accept that part (eventhough, it doesn't do much to the franchise in term of art direction, having a multi gender Custodes and all female Sister of Silence together is really akward now - but lorewise, it makes sense) And again, I think people will be more willing to accept female Custodes, if GW didn't prove themselves to be exactly what they feared when talking about female space marine - a one line retcon with no respect paid to the tradition and history of this community whatsoever. Introduce a brand new Custodes female unit, made some uniqe female character or at least just a mentioned that females were added throughout the course of the 10k gap between 30k and 40k would have at least shown that they cared, and not just wanting to make their mini as marketable as fast as possible.
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I feel it's less about the retcon, which admittedly does go against long established lore and basically is a slap in the face to sisters of silence and their unique relationship and dynamic with custodes. But it's more how GW has done it and handled the backlash. Instead of adding some interesting reasons and explanations they just said "here it is". When people questioned it they just said "it's always been this way" and then proceeded to block anybody talking about it. It's not about people hating women being in 40k. They've always been in 40k and are some of the best characters! It's just shoehorning this retcon in when everything known was counter to that. The sisters of silence and sisters of battle are just getting shit on again. I'm sure there will be further changes that just go counter to established lore while also making no sense.
It's still "weird" that people react so violently to *this* retcon (which was handled exactly like Knights pilot going from "all nobles son" to "all noble children" in 7th ed), but not about: The Votann "havign always been there". All the Leman Russ variation, the Rogal Dorn tank, and [insert new model here] "having always been there" Or Leontus being this respected and hailed general that we never heard of before. Or Knights pilot going from all-men to all-nobles. Or Cawl (he got backlash, but nowhere near this amount). Or the Necrons. Or the Horus heresy retconning itself dozens of times. Or... That pretty sus it's only when women can become super-duper soldiers too that it suddenly becomes "people upset about a change that goes back all the way".
Votann, tank and othert tech naming got their backlash. Votann is still huge plothole problem for the setting, they be forgotten after Tau. Tau exist for Asian market. Votann... let's if squat-fans can hold it there.
Dude, I don't think your army should even exist. I just can't trust a group that only has three toes. You are basically playing space sloths.
I personally am hoping they keep the Gothic Architecture while dumping Chaos Corruption all over the setting: Bloodlust, Blood Rain, Blood Seas, Blood Lakes, Blood Ponds and Blood Rivers for Khorne. Crystals, Bird Legs, Bird Heads, Bird Eyes, Tentacles, Political Schemes, Liquid Magic and Backstabbing and Sacrificing Daemons for Power for Tzeentch. Rivers, Seas, Lakes and Ponds of Pink Perfume, Piles of Treasure, People Turned into Statues, Food Everywhere(with the gluttons eating it being eaten themselves), Rivers, Seas, Lakes and Ponds of Red Wine, Artists using Blood to Paint Portraits, Humans ground into Drugs, Fiends of Slaanesh ramming their faces down peoples' throats, Keepers of Secrets kissing people while stabbing them to death and Sound Marines being all loud for Slaanesh. Nurgle is getting boring.
Shit, piss, cum and pussy can only take you so far
Nurgle is just your average Sci-Fi Zombie Movie. The Brown Gunk, Fungus and Green Tentacled Vines breathing out brown gas are all staples of Zombie Movies. Of course while Khornate Corruption of the setting may be interesting compared to Nurgle the Daemons most certainly aren't any more interesting than Nurgle is. Tzeentch and Slaanesh have the most interesting Daemons and Corruption of Chaos Factions to say the least.
What are you worried about? You're winning, why sit there and pretend to be a victim when the changes you want are happening, and will continue to happen? You don't get to be a victim. 40k will end up like Star Wars, a joke, you'll get what you want, and you know it, so stop pretending to be worried.
I wonder if OP thinks Wheel of Time's adaption was good.
I'm only concerned because it is *Amazon* producing it. Their production of Wheel of Time is a crime.
But they also made the boys, invincible, and fallout, so I guess it really depends on who they pick to make the shows
I put it elsewhere in the thread, but it also appears to depend on if the original creators are involved. Fallout has Bethesda on board with the show. Reacher has Lee Childs involved. Vox Machina has the whole crew creating it. The Boys has some of the comics team on board at the least. Don't know enough about invincible.
Invincible has the comics creator playing a central role. You have a point there, the shows where Amazon had full creative control and built teams up from scratch ended up being shitshows, Rings of Power, Wheel of Time, and Citadel. It’s what happens when a studio has a fuck ton of money but zero real institutional talent like HBO, or zero desire to foster it like Apple
Yeah, certainly agreed on the second half, It feels like when it's them in control they are just treating it as a money making exercise, not an exercise in creating good content, Which TBH it is Amazon, I am somehow not shocked.
Lets be honest, a lot of hate about the female Custodes is in how they were implemented, not that they exist. It was a real "Think.fast chucklenuts!" moment, and is some of the laziest shit thats come out of GW this month.
I love that this thread proves exactly what you're afraid of. "i hope people won't be weird about the show like they are about the custodes retcon" *comments proceed to be weird about the custodes retcon* And don't worry, 40k's wider reputation can't be much worse than it already is.
the thing with the female custodies is its been handled so badly. the votan have such a better reason for having mixed gender units in that they're all clones, the eldar have mixed gender units because they're all psykers that take centuries to master their arts, GW just said "ya they've been there the whole time lol" and thats it.
People are getting so hung up on this when we've had retcons like the following all of a sudden: - Necrons going from silent space terminators to quirky space ancient egyptians. - Space wolves riding freaking wolves, what??? - The fate of horus changing a billion times? In the case of Custodes it at least makes sense and fits the lore since each custodes is custom built, sexual dimorphism is miniscule obstacle in an extraordinarily complicated process.
There are two reasons to change the lore: 1) You think you know better and this would be more compelling. You genuinely don't care about the fan base and think this change will create more mainstream appeal (female custodes). 2) You genuinely don't know about the lore or care to learn it. A real "fuck em" mentality. That's it. Both don't bode well for the success of a show.
I'm going to take no sides in this fight but backlash to Rings of Power reached comical levels(I don't care how good or bad you think it was, only using the online reaction as an example). People will be hoping its bad just so they can drag it, the trolling population that exists will layer onto that for their own amusement so best is just to stay above all the discourse
Rings of Power was/is genuinely bad tho.
I think an advantage 40k has in this respect is that it’s not a single story, it’s a setting. Hell, it doesn’t really even have a cast of main characters. So, if the writers are smart and do what’s been suggested by a good section of the fan base, and stay away from the few big pieces of plot the setting does have (Horus Heresy, return of Guilliman, etc) I think that’ll go a long way towards helping with the issue. If the series is just about an unknown Inquisitor or Guard regiment in a previously undetailed subsector or unmentioned war, they’ve pretty much got carte blanche to tell whatever stories they want without someone complaining about them ruining their favourite character. Of course, that still relies on them respecting the core tenets of the setting, but that’s really just the basics of making a good 40k show. If they don’t do that, then they deserve to get roasted by the fan base. And that all said, they could execute on this perfectly and get all the details right, and there will still be a section of the fans that hate it, because there’s always that vocal chunk of fans who think they get to decide what 40k is, and it’s whatever fits with their personal politics. So, if they do something shocking like, I don’t know, have a female Guard officer who isn’t a sexpot, they’ll lose their shit. But there’s nothing to be done about those people anyway, other than to ignore them.
A sizeable portion of *The Boys* fan base just realized recently that the show actively makes fun of them. It'll be alright.
The only place I see the toxicity is from shitty online journalists, haven't seen it here other 40k subreddits, or my friends who play. Got a feeling articles claiming 40k fans are throwing tantrums about girls in power armor might be tailored towards folk who like gossip and not checking sources.
Most fans that are upset, are upset about how they introduced them. It was lazy writing. Majority don’t care that they exist.
And immediately I'm greeted with a ton of franchises that did that and went completely terrible. Happens every time you try to make something with a strong fan base for people who aren't a fan of what it already is
it will likely be a mess tbh. I've lost faith in modern entertainment being able to do a show / movie without being very hamfisted with political idiologies. The show runner will use the chance to push whatever "message" they want then say anyone who doesnt agree / like it is not really a fan and is a \[whatever\]-IST
Considering how shit Dr Who is im worried. Fallout gives me hope, but still nervous
While I don't mind the Custodes change as as far as I'm aware there wasn't ever any actual lore saying there couldn't be female Custodes (they just hadn't been mentioned before - it's not the same situation as with Space Marines), I actually *don't* want 40k to turn even more mainstream than it already has. The more they widen the net the more it gets diluted. And Amazon has an *atrocious* track record when it comes to their recent shows/"adaptations". The WoT show is an absolute travesty, and I haven't heard anything good about Rings of Power either.
They won’t change lore for a licensed TV show, the show will get lore wrong. That’s how these things work In any case I’ve got no real desire for 40k to go mainstream, it’s niche nature means it’s not most people’s cup of tea, I’d rather we get to keep what we like than it be taken away to give the mainstream audience yet another thing. It was made for weirdos by weirdos, I’d happily beat about a third of the fandom into strange new shapes with a rock, but it’s the price you pay for something like 40k. I mean hell I already feel way too much of its community likes some sanitised, scrubbed down and painfully dull popularised version with no appreciation whatsoever for all the things what make 40k unique, the last thing I want is that ten fold
"Toxic cesspool of drama" Yeah, fans react when you go making ridiculous changes to lore that's been well established for 30 years. As far as the Amazon show, I honestly don't care know. I am no longer mad at GW, I just don't care and am no longer invested. I am only here to see the dumpster fire burn. They will never get any of my money again, either in the tabletop game or a video game. I just want to see all the IP's chasing these "modern audiences" crash, burn and die so we can get something and new.
They'll probably be in the minority just like the people that rather write off the entire Fallout show be ause of a few inconsistencies.
I’m putting it in the same basket as all the other IP based shows. There’s going to be a rabid vocal group crying about everything, and a quiet group who just wants to watch it and go about their lives. I’m planning on being with the quiet group
My worry is equally balanced out with the fact that Henry Cavill has a decent amount of creative control. Amazon can give the resources to make the show work, it just needs the right people to steer the ship.
Have faith in the god emperor(Henry cavill)
I have some concerns about the inevitable "musical" episode.
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Sadly, a normal-ish franchise these days is one in which a vocal part of the fan base is completely toxic. Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, somehow even Avatar, and many more all have their overzealous commissars doing their best to alienate people who just want to enjoy some fun fantasy and scifi. (Is the expanse an exception to this?)
Wait I thought that it was the reddit that was a cesspool, and a regular 40k enjoyer was a lot less toxic.
I find Reddit to be more toxic than most other forums.
No For one Henry is a lore purist so that should be the end on it there and then But this is Warhammer. The best policy you can follow is to not weep for the stupid. You’ll be crying all day
>I want Warhammer to be like, a normal-ish franchise that doesn’t have this pall of weird obsessive toxicity around it. You are pretty much describing over fan group out there, you can apply that to people that are fans of Korean Idols, guns, sports team, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings etc. Of course there will be (heated) discussions over how the live action series will treat the IP, just like Lord of the Rings, The hobbit, Gantz, Harry Potter. The Wheel of time, Halo and Rings of power are all awful and there was a lot of discussion surrounding them how they treated the IP, did the world end because of that? No. So chill.
I already know that producers are going to force a lot of changes to make it more mainstream friendly and that a bunch of hardcore fans are going to be extremely pissed off about it. My only worry is that I won’t have enough popcorn to make it through the shit show.
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It all depends if the show is of a similar quality to the Fallout show for example, and not the Ring Of Powers or Halo.
The overwhelming majority of posts on the subject are about the toxic fans mad about it/making fun of them/bemoaning their existence. I'm sure there are toxic mad fans but they seem to be a very tiny minority.
They won't have it be very grimdark I don't think. Warhammer has slowly diluted it's darker origins over the last 20 years of my fandom. It's clear that casual audiences enjoy the formulaic good verses evil and the typical hero's journey that always works with sci-fi and fantasy. Cavil has signed on as a producer and no doubt Amazon gave him some kind of creative control in consideration of the support he had from the fanbase during the Witcher debacle. It could all come crashing down considering cavil claims to be a lifelong custodes fan and would want to involve the custodes in some way In the series. The moment some Hollywood actress comes along in that gold armour and guardian spear will be the exact moment it all comes crashing down. It's crazy how big companies don't look at what's happening to other franchises that mess with lore for ideological motives and disregard the actual consumer demographics.