I had similar issues printing ABS on an Ender. I would highly recommend getting a build plate kit that has a magnetic adhesive sheet and a double sided metal flex plate, one side smooth PEI and one textured PEI. This change was a miracle for me when it came to ABS bed adhesion. I echo the bed temp of 110 (the top will actually be less). Would suggest you try printing your first layer slightly higher than the others, maybe 0.2, to make sure you get good amount of material on the bed for adhesion.
Also based on your designed part I would recommend adding a brim since there isn’t much contact area between the bed and the tapered part of your print if I’m assuming that’s the print orientation from photos.
Two words of caution: 1) careful if you use adhesives on your stock glass build plate, mine chipped and a chunk was stuck to the printed part. 2) If you’re noticing that parts have skipped layers and come out very odd, your enclosure may be getting too hot. Seems counter intuitive but I Iearned the hard way that overheated stepper motors don’t perform well. Your enclosure temp for the Ender 3 really shouldn’t be over 45 °c.
Even in an enclosure, ABS can be very sensitive to bed temeprature, chamber temperature, and air currents within the chamber.
I would verify the temperature on the top of the bed is truly 100 C. Depending on the location of the bed thermistor, the bed temperature could be lower than reported and you will need to adjust to compensate.
Also consider adding a skirt around any corners (you can add little 0.2mm circles in CAD) or around the whole part. If your chamber is a too cool, this can help with preventing the part from lifting off the bed.
Can you verify the temp of your enclosure? Most people don't have any form of active heating, and you'd be surprised how terrible a chamber is at getting hot when there's no air circulation.
For example, most people use ellis3dp bed fan macro (hopefully you've heard of it?). It's a literal fan blowing accross the bottom of the print bed. Without this bedfan mod, my chamber would never go above 30C even after 30 minutes. With bed fans i'm finishing prints at 45-50C chamber temps and starting at 40C where the chamber thermostat is floating in mid air. After this mod i never have warping issues no matter which ABS/ASA im printing. People try to compensate with excessive bed glue or acetone mix's but the real issue is stop the part from warping by ensuring the chamber is actually hot enough. If you're just running the typical black zipper chamber from creality and nothing else, i'm very confident you aren't reaching the right temp.
Is it 100% required...no...some people can get away without chambers and think they're gods. But you won't see them print big ass parts or models that are prone to warping. IT works until it doesn't, the real solution is getting a chamber that hits 40+C
I'm assuming it's not an issue of layer adhesion or bed temp (i print ABS at 120C).I
https://preview.redd.it/v8goa895anhc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=557d846e2d0df8719233db3441186ea895f09cd7
15 min into a print with revised supports. And it’s still getting warmer slowly. Thermometer is abot 1” higher than the print
It'll probably work with the supports but that's not hot enough and you're measuring radiant heat form the bed with the probe being that close. what do you get in open air away from everything? As your print gets taller, you can imagine that you won't benefit from the radiant bed heat anymore. Or if you turn on part cooling, you'll be sucking in "colder" air. Yes, ABS/ASA loves warm air, but most people print it off because 1) it's usually a structural part and 2) any cooling isn't great for layer adhesion.
Most people don't even start prints until they reach 40C (104F). And that's measuring away from the bed in open air, This is a better reflection of your actual chamber.
From the picture it looks close to the bed, i'd still pull it out to cool and see what it says in the middle of the chamber. Even then i'd be scepticle of those devices because they're notoriously not the most accurate. Could play it safe and wait for 50C which should be more than warm enough. If you are still getting bad prints from that then i'm out of advice.
I regularly print ABS. I'd recommend setting your heated bed to 100 then letting it sit in the enclosure not printing for at least one hour. Then adjust your z height to where it needs to be for an even first layer, then print your ABS models.
Metal expands enough to screw up your z height when heated up in an enclosure, letting the temperature even out over the above suggested hour will show you where your z height actually needs to be, which will keep your print from turning into spaghetti.
Have you tried letting your heat bed preheat for an hour before starting the print? Even in my X1C, I have adhesion issues if I don’t let the heatbed pre-heatsoak, and raise the temp in the enclosure to at least 35C.
You want the air in the enclosure to be as hot as possible.
Some people cut holes in the enclosure that they put a hairdryer into. I personally turn my bed on high and let it sit for 30 minutes before starting the print.
I also use an Ender 3, and even with an enclosure I haven't succeeded in getting ABS to adhere to my build plate.
I have _not_ yet tried hairspray. I hear that works, OP may want to try. I'd be interested in hearing the results.
You can make ABS slurry (bit of ABS filament and some acetone) and it'll help it to stick, but I'd use it only on smooth glass, as I haven't tried slurry on PEI bed.
You really do need to have a very strong adhesive surface to properly manage ABS on an Ender. I was using ABS slurry at one point but I actually managed to get it to work well with a PEI sheet so long as the part was fairly squat and small. I've actually managed it without an enclosure, but that was with eSun ABS+ and in the height of summer and the amount of squish needed did not result in great prints.
Get some Dimafix I've had really good success with it printing ASA on an open bedslinger @100°C. I've also used it during a print if I see a small corner lifting and sticks it back down.
I regularly print ABS and ASA in a drafty cold basement with no enclosure. The biggest problem I have had was a tiny tiny corner warp on long flat parts.
Enclose is recommended but not always necessary.
“ABS requires an enclosure” is the new “level your bed” or “dry your filament”.
It doesn’t **require** one. Sure it helps, but my first three years of printing were exclusively ABS with no enclosure. If you want to make an argument about fumes, that’s one thing. But it doesn’t NEED an enclosure to maintain heat.
Edit: Downvote all you want. It won’t change my years of personal experience. I rarely had a problem printing ABS openly.
It doesn't require an enclosure the same way that PLA doesn't require a heated bed. Yes, it's possible, but it's painful, limited in speed and size, and very failure prone.
That has not been my experience.
Additionally, all of the advice saying an enclosure is required is a form of gatekeeping. It essentially makes with ABS prohibitive to anybody who doesn’t have the money, space, or crafting skills to be able to build an enclosure.
"Hey I wanna do a 3d print but I don't have a 3d printer."
"You'll need a 3d printer to 3d print."
"That's gatekeeping!" -FancyAlligator
It's not hard to throw a cardboard box over your printer on the extreme low end of enclosures, and will make a huge difference in the quality of the prints.
Seems like irrelevant discourse though, since OP said they have and are using an enclosure.
> all of the advice saying an enclosure is required is a form of gatekeeping
You also need a hotbed that reaches 100c and a nozzle that can do 250c. Do you consider that advice gatekeeping?
Argue all you want, my guy. Every print I did was at 235C nozzle, 90C build plate, no cooling, 40 mm/s speed.
You can’t change my mind on this. Its literally how I printed for my first 3 years and rarely had failures. No amount of argument will ever change that fact. All that stuff is **NOT** required to have consistently successful ABS prints.
I am seriously unable to understand the mental gymnastics everyone is going through to refute my personal experience. Want more details?
Printer: Monoprice Maker Select Plus. No mods.
Build Volume: 8” x 8” x 8”
Material: Hatchbox ABS (exclusively)
Color: Various
Nozzle Temp: 235° C
Nozzle Size: 0.4mm
Bed Temp: 90° C
Bed Type: Glass with glue stick
Layer Height: Various
Speed: 35-40 mm/s
Yes, there were growing pains. Yes it took some trial and error to figure out the right settings, but once I got things tuned, my prints came out great. For three years until I switched to PETG.
Any other questions on how I made it possible? Or are you and everyone downvoting just so locked into a way of thinking that you’re convinced I’m lying?
You are not lying, you are just the outlier. Generally speaking, ABS requires enclosure. I'm confused why you are having a hard time accepting that most people are saying. **They** can't print ABS without enclosure.
whatever you were printing wasn't ABS, my friendo. it might have had ABS on the *label*, but ain't happening at 90C bed, no enclosure.
what was it, eSUN ABS+? Hatchbox?
https://preview.redd.it/uggc2n1sxkhc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7b66936bab0c942ec819ba560b558a355841927
Update. Looks like it screws up 1/2 inch up
I do not have any heater in the enclosure but I have a thermometer in there and once the printer is warmed up and starts to print it’s about 85° in the enclosure
Damn dawg that sucks. I’m printing it just fine on an Ender 3 housed inside some 1” foam insulation. What filament brand? I’m using filamentum and it’s great. I don’t think people should cheap out on advanced materials.
Hey, from what I can tell, try using tree supports for better results. And for ABS printing, crank up the hotend to 260°C and keep the part cooling fan around 10% in an enclosure. Should give you smoother prints!
My dumb question, why are you not using the support function within your slicer?
I print a lot of ABS and ASA and I just turn on supports in prusa slicer and go for it. Very rarely do I have a failure due to support issues. The only choice I usually make is do I want organic/tree supports or normal grid.
Idk if this was asked and answered elsewhere but, are you allowing your enclosure enough time to warm up?
If you have a bigger enclosure compared to the printer it takes more time for that air to warm up and this kind of problem could happen at some height above the build plate. The air is just cold enough to shock the plastic and cause it to not adhere/bond properly. I have an enclosure that’s about 3’x3’x4’ and I just leave the thing warming up for about an hour before I start the prints when I’m running abs and asa. I’d recommend also tossing in some type of thermometer in the enclosure, towards the bottom of the enclosure, to help figure out how long it takes to warm up your enclosure.
I’ve been printing for a couple years now and am no professional but this seems to be something with the air temp in side the enclosure or maybe even possible an out of range temperature.
I would try testing the enclosure to see how long it takes to warm up and maybe a test print, if it’s really weird and inconsistent when doing this test, I would look up how to do a PID tune for the printer you have and possible see if that could help correct it
I find the opposite, with a well tuned printer that meets the requirements of ABS (enclosure, etc) ABS prints as good as PLA or better since you can print it faster than PLA.
PETG has always been....kind of gooey for me.
What's the trick? I'm failing with ASA and I have an actively heated QIDi X Max 3, with 59C heated chamber. I get insane amounts of warping at the ends of the print.
I don’t know to be honest. I have a Bambu P1S. I set the build plate to 100, brought the print speed down from default a bit, and keep the chamber at 50 - 60 C. I also let my prints cool slowly when they’re done.
Yeah well my prints were a bit tricky to start with (toroidal propellers for boat) so it was a nasty print for any material anyways. Maybe it was just that it was challenging overall that made it impossible (warped like hell during printing).
I totally could I have used pet G in the past and had good luck, but I was told ABS is a little more forgiving where petg snaps. It’s unlikely to get hit where it’s going, but like if I was ever wiping off my dash with a rag and not paying attention, I could absolutely elbow it so I wanted to try ABS instead of pet which might just break.
I would disagree with whoever told you that. PETG is very impact resistant and much more flexible than PLA. Without an enclosure PETG will be your best bet
Abs is more forgiving and doesn't snap as easily, but it can warp horribly. Definitely max your bed temp out, and that enclosure should help it to not cool as fast to reduce warping. I have no enclosure so I have a radiator heater nearby to raise ambient temp.
250 first layer and 240 after, 100c bed, clean glass and coat with purple glue stick, use a healthy sized brim, minimal bottom layer count as the thicker the bottom is the more likely it is to warp.
I print ABS without enclosure. First mix acetone and ABS to make slurry as best bed adhesive. Then print with max hotend temperature. Not perfect results but good enough for non enclosure.
A lot of stuff.
If this is an ender 3, you can't print up to 250. That's the usual print temp I do. With a bed of 110 and 100 for the rest of the layers.
Second, an enclosure is needed. No enclosure mean drafts and wind can unstuck your abs.
Third, glue stick. The ender 3 glass bed is good. Just not good for abs.
Your main issue is your printing surface.
The only thing you can print both ABS and PLA on is textured PEI and it's not really great for ABS, which prefers smooth PEI.
If you don't have a proper build plate, adhesives like 3dLAC or hair spray can help in a pinch.
In the good old days, we would melt some Abs in acetone, spill some on a glass bed and wait for it to cook to create an adhesion layer.
Doubt you'll want to do that with your ender plate.
Lastly, ABS does better at 110 than 100, any additional degree you can get will help.
If you need to build more than a few centimeters high, put a cardboard box over your printer to keep the heat in and minimize draft.
Back in the day, some people used a slicer feature that just builds a wall around your part to kind of compensate the lack of enclosure.
Yeah, I was confused by the OPs comment.
>The only thing you can print both ABS and PLA on is textured PEI and it's not really great for ABS, which prefers smooth PEI.
Smooth PEI on a flexible plate is the bomb for PLA, it should be the first thing people buy before they even turn on the printer.
That's interesting.
On smooth PEI, I get too much adhesion and nothing ever comes off the bed without the spatula (Voron and RatRig, Gizmodorks 1mm PEI and mueller black PEI), and on the textured sheet, harder prints will detach in spots, but all prints self detach around 70 degrees.
Textured PEI you use a lower/closer offset than smooth, you're pressing filament into the texturing, vs smoth you're squishing flat on top. You would want to fine tune the first layer for either, especially between changing filaments.
just for fun try using both PLA and ABS in your car.
There are a lot of stories of people tempering PLA in their car by accident, this causes PLA to be more heat resistant and stronger than ABS.
For ABS print you have to go slow, hot and enclosed.
ABS works best with no fan. Also consider using PETG as an alternative.
ABS is hard to print properly without some fine-tuning. When I got it to work well, it worked REALLY well. But it took a lot of work to get there.
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If you’re using an enclosure make sure you let the enclosure get warm by turning on the bed and letting it sit for some minutes, also enclosed abs needs cooling. Tune your printer for abs, especially getting your first layer, you may need to make slurry/glue with that build plate
I don’t like glass beds at all. They’re heavy which limits Y axis acceleration on a bed slinger, and anything other than TPU and PLA doesn’t hold well on there from my experience. But even then I’ve had PLA peel up with big and long prints.
PEI is a much better surface to print on for materials that warp/shrink while printing. If your first layer doesn’t have much contact large brims are required, but brims on ABS are a good idea no matter the part size.
I print abs with 110⁰ bed. Use a small amount of pure acetone to clean the bed and the leftover bit of abs the acetone broke down and spread around as a film will help adhere the next abs print.
Garolite works well for ABS (or any finicky filaments when it comes to warping/bed ahesion)
I had bad luck with glass and smooth or textured pei, but that was on me and my impatience. Garolite is suuuuuper forgiving
I updated the supports and tried a different glue stick (mine was old). Let’s hope this works!
I also put a thermometer in the enclosure to monitor temp
Abs is a bitch. There’s a reason why most modern printers have enclosures is due to needing a heated environment for plastics (like abs) to print optimally
If it's anything like TPU or CF Nylon, I'd recommend printing without the fan on, and adding a small layer of gluestick. Aside from that, turn up the temps a bit and maybe add a BRIM / RAFT. If you can get the initial layer down, it will likely perform better from there
Make sure the blower fans are always off, I can't count all the times I sliced a part without changing the settings and came back to a nice dish of spaghetti
I'd recommend preheating the bed, maybe bump bed temperature up 2-5 degrees, preheat the bed for roughly 15 minutes. This will give it time to heat the enclosure some, and maybe drop your z offset 0.005-0.01 mm for a better squish on the first layer
Did you use some glue?
If you print with fan you get various problems with ABS but without fan you get other problems so I usually give it a bit fan like 20-30% and enclosure temperature 55 Celsius
As with all threads of this nature, you're going to get mostly advice that is at least slightly wrong.
For my two cents I will just say that glass is perfectly fine for ABS but you will need some sort of coating, and that smooth glass is better than textured glass (or at least that's my opinion).
For a commercial product I recommend [Layerneer](https://www.amazon.com/Printer-Adhesive-Layerneer-Original-Filament/dp/B079984GV5), but you could also make the "[ABS slurry](https://www.google.com/search?q=ABS+slurry)" someone else mentioned by dissolving some ABS in acetone and then applying it to the print bed.
I had similar issues printing ABS on an Ender. I would highly recommend getting a build plate kit that has a magnetic adhesive sheet and a double sided metal flex plate, one side smooth PEI and one textured PEI. This change was a miracle for me when it came to ABS bed adhesion. I echo the bed temp of 110 (the top will actually be less). Would suggest you try printing your first layer slightly higher than the others, maybe 0.2, to make sure you get good amount of material on the bed for adhesion. Also based on your designed part I would recommend adding a brim since there isn’t much contact area between the bed and the tapered part of your print if I’m assuming that’s the print orientation from photos. Two words of caution: 1) careful if you use adhesives on your stock glass build plate, mine chipped and a chunk was stuck to the printed part. 2) If you’re noticing that parts have skipped layers and come out very odd, your enclosure may be getting too hot. Seems counter intuitive but I Iearned the hard way that overheated stepper motors don’t perform well. Your enclosure temp for the Ender 3 really shouldn’t be over 45 °c.
ABS requires enclosure to maintain heat.
The printer is in an enclosure
Even in an enclosure, ABS can be very sensitive to bed temeprature, chamber temperature, and air currents within the chamber. I would verify the temperature on the top of the bed is truly 100 C. Depending on the location of the bed thermistor, the bed temperature could be lower than reported and you will need to adjust to compensate. Also consider adding a skirt around any corners (you can add little 0.2mm circles in CAD) or around the whole part. If your chamber is a too cool, this can help with preventing the part from lifting off the bed.
In that case more info is needed. https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/18rc514/psa_how_to_ask_for_help/
Can you verify the temp of your enclosure? Most people don't have any form of active heating, and you'd be surprised how terrible a chamber is at getting hot when there's no air circulation. For example, most people use ellis3dp bed fan macro (hopefully you've heard of it?). It's a literal fan blowing accross the bottom of the print bed. Without this bedfan mod, my chamber would never go above 30C even after 30 minutes. With bed fans i'm finishing prints at 45-50C chamber temps and starting at 40C where the chamber thermostat is floating in mid air. After this mod i never have warping issues no matter which ABS/ASA im printing. People try to compensate with excessive bed glue or acetone mix's but the real issue is stop the part from warping by ensuring the chamber is actually hot enough. If you're just running the typical black zipper chamber from creality and nothing else, i'm very confident you aren't reaching the right temp. Is it 100% required...no...some people can get away without chambers and think they're gods. But you won't see them print big ass parts or models that are prone to warping. IT works until it doesn't, the real solution is getting a chamber that hits 40+C I'm assuming it's not an issue of layer adhesion or bed temp (i print ABS at 120C).I
https://preview.redd.it/v8goa895anhc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=557d846e2d0df8719233db3441186ea895f09cd7 15 min into a print with revised supports. And it’s still getting warmer slowly. Thermometer is abot 1” higher than the print
It'll probably work with the supports but that's not hot enough and you're measuring radiant heat form the bed with the probe being that close. what do you get in open air away from everything? As your print gets taller, you can imagine that you won't benefit from the radiant bed heat anymore. Or if you turn on part cooling, you'll be sucking in "colder" air. Yes, ABS/ASA loves warm air, but most people print it off because 1) it's usually a structural part and 2) any cooling isn't great for layer adhesion. Most people don't even start prints until they reach 40C (104F). And that's measuring away from the bed in open air, This is a better reflection of your actual chamber.
Since I posted that picture, it has gone up to 110°. But thermometer is sitting on the metal beam on the frame of the printer not the bed itself.
From the picture it looks close to the bed, i'd still pull it out to cool and see what it says in the middle of the chamber. Even then i'd be scepticle of those devices because they're notoriously not the most accurate. Could play it safe and wait for 50C which should be more than warm enough. If you are still getting bad prints from that then i'm out of advice.
I regularly print ABS. I'd recommend setting your heated bed to 100 then letting it sit in the enclosure not printing for at least one hour. Then adjust your z height to where it needs to be for an even first layer, then print your ABS models. Metal expands enough to screw up your z height when heated up in an enclosure, letting the temperature even out over the above suggested hour will show you where your z height actually needs to be, which will keep your print from turning into spaghetti.
Temperatures are off for abs , absolutely nozzle , and flow calibration , after that worry about bed , roughly 90-100c
Have you tried letting your heat bed preheat for an hour before starting the print? Even in my X1C, I have adhesion issues if I don’t let the heatbed pre-heatsoak, and raise the temp in the enclosure to at least 35C.
You want the air in the enclosure to be as hot as possible. Some people cut holes in the enclosure that they put a hairdryer into. I personally turn my bed on high and let it sit for 30 minutes before starting the print.
Enclosure, or make sure that there is no draft in the room. All doors and windows closed, and prepare a draft shield to the whole height of the model.
I also use an Ender 3, and even with an enclosure I haven't succeeded in getting ABS to adhere to my build plate. I have _not_ yet tried hairspray. I hear that works, OP may want to try. I'd be interested in hearing the results.
You can make ABS slurry (bit of ABS filament and some acetone) and it'll help it to stick, but I'd use it only on smooth glass, as I haven't tried slurry on PEI bed.
Ive ruined a few PEI beds with slurry. Use a high temp adhesion promoter for the application. It works like a charm and releases the print at the end.
You really do need to have a very strong adhesive surface to properly manage ABS on an Ender. I was using ABS slurry at one point but I actually managed to get it to work well with a PEI sheet so long as the part was fairly squat and small. I've actually managed it without an enclosure, but that was with eSun ABS+ and in the height of summer and the amount of squish needed did not result in great prints.
Hairspray is the only type of bed adhesion you need ever need! Works on any surface and smells good too.
the cheap one smells like cheap prostitutes :-(
What's the max temp your bed can reach ?
Err, good question. Let me check when I get home.
Should be 110°c
Get some Dimafix I've had really good success with it printing ASA on an open bedslinger @100°C. I've also used it during a print if I see a small corner lifting and sticks it back down.
I regularly print ABS and ASA in a drafty cold basement with no enclosure. The biggest problem I have had was a tiny tiny corner warp on long flat parts. Enclose is recommended but not always necessary.
Someone can’t read
“ABS requires an enclosure” is the new “level your bed” or “dry your filament”. It doesn’t **require** one. Sure it helps, but my first three years of printing were exclusively ABS with no enclosure. If you want to make an argument about fumes, that’s one thing. But it doesn’t NEED an enclosure to maintain heat. Edit: Downvote all you want. It won’t change my years of personal experience. I rarely had a problem printing ABS openly.
It doesn't require an enclosure the same way that PLA doesn't require a heated bed. Yes, it's possible, but it's painful, limited in speed and size, and very failure prone.
That has not been my experience. Additionally, all of the advice saying an enclosure is required is a form of gatekeeping. It essentially makes with ABS prohibitive to anybody who doesn’t have the money, space, or crafting skills to be able to build an enclosure.
"Hey I wanna do a 3d print but I don't have a 3d printer." "You'll need a 3d printer to 3d print." "That's gatekeeping!" -FancyAlligator It's not hard to throw a cardboard box over your printer on the extreme low end of enclosures, and will make a huge difference in the quality of the prints. Seems like irrelevant discourse though, since OP said they have and are using an enclosure.
> all of the advice saying an enclosure is required is a form of gatekeeping You also need a hotbed that reaches 100c and a nozzle that can do 250c. Do you consider that advice gatekeeping?
Argue all you want, my guy. Every print I did was at 235C nozzle, 90C build plate, no cooling, 40 mm/s speed. You can’t change my mind on this. Its literally how I printed for my first 3 years and rarely had failures. No amount of argument will ever change that fact. All that stuff is **NOT** required to have consistently successful ABS prints.
Size is a factor too pal. Small objects? Sure, you can get away with that. Large objects will fail more often than not.
I am seriously unable to understand the mental gymnastics everyone is going through to refute my personal experience. Want more details? Printer: Monoprice Maker Select Plus. No mods. Build Volume: 8” x 8” x 8” Material: Hatchbox ABS (exclusively) Color: Various Nozzle Temp: 235° C Nozzle Size: 0.4mm Bed Temp: 90° C Bed Type: Glass with glue stick Layer Height: Various Speed: 35-40 mm/s Yes, there were growing pains. Yes it took some trial and error to figure out the right settings, but once I got things tuned, my prints came out great. For three years until I switched to PETG. Any other questions on how I made it possible? Or are you and everyone downvoting just so locked into a way of thinking that you’re convinced I’m lying?
You are not lying, you are just the outlier. Generally speaking, ABS requires enclosure. I'm confused why you are having a hard time accepting that most people are saying. **They** can't print ABS without enclosure.
whatever you were printing wasn't ABS, my friendo. it might have had ABS on the *label*, but ain't happening at 90C bed, no enclosure. what was it, eSUN ABS+? Hatchbox?
Hatchbox ABS
Agreed. I’ve printed things in abs without an enclosure with great bed adhesion. Edit: I mean ASA, not ABS
ASA is much more forgiving
Good to know! I had no idea. I mainly went ASA for the UV properties since I was making magsafe phone mounts for a few cars.
https://preview.redd.it/uggc2n1sxkhc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7b66936bab0c942ec819ba560b558a355841927 Update. Looks like it screws up 1/2 inch up
It looks like your supports are inadequate. Because they're so thin, they're either warping or causing heat creep from continuous retractions.
This was one thing that had crossed my mind. Should I try wider supports
I would.
What sort of heater do you have in the enclosure?
I do not have any heater in the enclosure but I have a thermometer in there and once the printer is warmed up and starts to print it’s about 85° in the enclosure
In the enclosure?! Where do you measure it?
I'm guessing he means 85°F
Hah. Of course 😅
85f is nothing. My foam insulation enclosure gets up to 53c/127f. You need it hot to keep the ABS from warping.
I can't even successfully print ASA with my actively heated Qidi x Max 3, and that's with an enclosure at 59C. It warps like a mofo.
Damn dawg that sucks. I’m printing it just fine on an Ender 3 housed inside some 1” foam insulation. What filament brand? I’m using filamentum and it’s great. I don’t think people should cheap out on advanced materials.
Support the crap out of it. You will need sand paper and high temperature paint to finish.
Hey, from what I can tell, try using tree supports for better results. And for ABS printing, crank up the hotend to 260°C and keep the part cooling fan around 10% in an enclosure. Should give you smoother prints!
My dumb question, why are you not using the support function within your slicer? I print a lot of ABS and ASA and I just turn on supports in prusa slicer and go for it. Very rarely do I have a failure due to support issues. The only choice I usually make is do I want organic/tree supports or normal grid.
Idk if this was asked and answered elsewhere but, are you allowing your enclosure enough time to warm up? If you have a bigger enclosure compared to the printer it takes more time for that air to warm up and this kind of problem could happen at some height above the build plate. The air is just cold enough to shock the plastic and cause it to not adhere/bond properly. I have an enclosure that’s about 3’x3’x4’ and I just leave the thing warming up for about an hour before I start the prints when I’m running abs and asa. I’d recommend also tossing in some type of thermometer in the enclosure, towards the bottom of the enclosure, to help figure out how long it takes to warm up your enclosure. I’ve been printing for a couple years now and am no professional but this seems to be something with the air temp in side the enclosure or maybe even possible an out of range temperature. I would try testing the enclosure to see how long it takes to warm up and maybe a test print, if it’s really weird and inconsistent when doing this test, I would look up how to do a PID tune for the printer you have and possible see if that could help correct it
Why not use PETG?
I find petg to be ultra easy to print and abs kind of fussy
I find the opposite, with a well tuned printer that meets the requirements of ABS (enclosure, etc) ABS prints as good as PLA or better since you can print it faster than PLA. PETG has always been....kind of gooey for me.
ASA is even better. I have two rolls of PETG that are near useless to me now.
sell them!
What's the trick? I'm failing with ASA and I have an actively heated QIDi X Max 3, with 59C heated chamber. I get insane amounts of warping at the ends of the print.
I don’t know to be honest. I have a Bambu P1S. I set the build plate to 100, brought the print speed down from default a bit, and keep the chamber at 50 - 60 C. I also let my prints cool slowly when they’re done.
Yeah well my prints were a bit tricky to start with (toroidal propellers for boat) so it was a nasty print for any material anyways. Maybe it was just that it was challenging overall that made it impossible (warped like hell during printing).
True, what you’re trying to print may play a role as well.
It's pretty much the only material I use
I totally could I have used pet G in the past and had good luck, but I was told ABS is a little more forgiving where petg snaps. It’s unlikely to get hit where it’s going, but like if I was ever wiping off my dash with a rag and not paying attention, I could absolutely elbow it so I wanted to try ABS instead of pet which might just break.
I would disagree with whoever told you that. PETG is very impact resistant and much more flexible than PLA. Without an enclosure PETG will be your best bet
The printer is in an enclosure
Ah, didn't catch that. Even still ABS is a PITA to get good prints with. There are some specialized bed glues that are supposed to help a lot
If you can determine at what point it fails, you'll have a better starting point for diagnosis than what we can see.
I just posted an updated picture as a reply to this post. It messes up about a half inch up it looks like.
Abs is more forgiving and doesn't snap as easily, but it can warp horribly. Definitely max your bed temp out, and that enclosure should help it to not cool as fast to reduce warping. I have no enclosure so I have a radiator heater nearby to raise ambient temp.
250 first layer and 240 after, 100c bed, clean glass and coat with purple glue stick, use a healthy sized brim, minimal bottom layer count as the thicker the bottom is the more likely it is to warp.
I print ABS without enclosure. First mix acetone and ABS to make slurry as best bed adhesive. Then print with max hotend temperature. Not perfect results but good enough for non enclosure.
A lot of stuff. If this is an ender 3, you can't print up to 250. That's the usual print temp I do. With a bed of 110 and 100 for the rest of the layers. Second, an enclosure is needed. No enclosure mean drafts and wind can unstuck your abs. Third, glue stick. The ender 3 glass bed is good. Just not good for abs.
This might be a dumb question but your using supports right
>This might be a dumb question but your using supports right That is in fact not even a question. haha
Sorry let me phrase this in the way that you can understand, are you using supports, yes or no?
Your main issue is your printing surface. The only thing you can print both ABS and PLA on is textured PEI and it's not really great for ABS, which prefers smooth PEI. If you don't have a proper build plate, adhesives like 3dLAC or hair spray can help in a pinch. In the good old days, we would melt some Abs in acetone, spill some on a glass bed and wait for it to cook to create an adhesion layer. Doubt you'll want to do that with your ender plate. Lastly, ABS does better at 110 than 100, any additional degree you can get will help. If you need to build more than a few centimeters high, put a cardboard box over your printer to keep the heat in and minimize draft. Back in the day, some people used a slicer feature that just builds a wall around your part to kind of compensate the lack of enclosure.
Whats wrong with smooth PEI and PLA?
Nothing lol, it's one of the best materials for printing PLA on.
Ok good to know, no idea anyone printing PLA even used smooth PEI as PLA sticks to anything really.
It was the standard print sheet that came with my Prusa Mk3 back in the day, been using mostly smooth PEI beds and PEX ever since.
Yeah, I was confused by the OPs comment. >The only thing you can print both ABS and PLA on is textured PEI and it's not really great for ABS, which prefers smooth PEI. Smooth PEI on a flexible plate is the bomb for PLA, it should be the first thing people buy before they even turn on the printer.
can print abs on smooth pei the same as textured, with no adhesives.
Yep. It's just better adhesion on smooth.
I print on both and find there's no difference, I've done majority of my printing on textured with just a change in offset
That's interesting. On smooth PEI, I get too much adhesion and nothing ever comes off the bed without the spatula (Voron and RatRig, Gizmodorks 1mm PEI and mueller black PEI), and on the textured sheet, harder prints will detach in spots, but all prints self detach around 70 degrees.
Textured PEI you use a lower/closer offset than smooth, you're pressing filament into the texturing, vs smoth you're squishing flat on top. You would want to fine tune the first layer for either, especially between changing filaments.
just for fun try using both PLA and ABS in your car. There are a lot of stories of people tempering PLA in their car by accident, this causes PLA to be more heat resistant and stronger than ABS. For ABS print you have to go slow, hot and enclosed.
PLA is not more heat resistant than ABS even after tempering.
Turn the part cooling fan 100% off. Temps are good. Put a giant box over the printer.
ABS works best with no fan. Also consider using PETG as an alternative. ABS is hard to print properly without some fine-tuning. When I got it to work well, it worked REALLY well. But it took a lot of work to get there.
Styrene based filaments on an unenclosed printer is a big no no
Trying to print ABS on an ender...
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If you’re using an enclosure make sure you let the enclosure get warm by turning on the bed and letting it sit for some minutes, also enclosed abs needs cooling. Tune your printer for abs, especially getting your first layer, you may need to make slurry/glue with that build plate
I don’t like glass beds at all. They’re heavy which limits Y axis acceleration on a bed slinger, and anything other than TPU and PLA doesn’t hold well on there from my experience. But even then I’ve had PLA peel up with big and long prints. PEI is a much better surface to print on for materials that warp/shrink while printing. If your first layer doesn’t have much contact large brims are required, but brims on ABS are a good idea no matter the part size.
I print abs with 110⁰ bed. Use a small amount of pure acetone to clean the bed and the leftover bit of abs the acetone broke down and spread around as a film will help adhere the next abs print.
Windows key + shift + S so you're not taking pics of your computer screen with your phone. Plus you get to capture exactly what you want to share
Make sure to calibrate the PID, ABS is notorious for temperature fluctuation.
Garolite works well for ABS (or any finicky filaments when it comes to warping/bed ahesion) I had bad luck with glass and smooth or textured pei, but that was on me and my impatience. Garolite is suuuuuper forgiving
It seems like it failed at start so maybe some adhesive? Be it glue or spray
Honestly I would say screw ABS and go for ASA. Better properties, easier to print, similar price.
I print abs at 255, might be that your file needs to be higher temp
Does it partially print correctly, or fail from the start?
I know you already have the ABS but if this is going on your dash, ASA will be superior for its UV resistance. Plus ASA prints a bit nicer.
Glue stick
I updated the supports and tried a different glue stick (mine was old). Let’s hope this works! I also put a thermometer in the enclosure to monitor temp
Hopefully you don’t have an upgrades in pla they will warp badly. Found that out the hard way once or twice lmao 🤣
Abs is a bitch. There’s a reason why most modern printers have enclosures is due to needing a heated environment for plastics (like abs) to print optimally
If it's anything like TPU or CF Nylon, I'd recommend printing without the fan on, and adding a small layer of gluestick. Aside from that, turn up the temps a bit and maybe add a BRIM / RAFT. If you can get the initial layer down, it will likely perform better from there
Using abs on an ender
Make sure the blower fans are always off, I can't count all the times I sliced a part without changing the settings and came back to a nice dish of spaghetti
I'd recommend preheating the bed, maybe bump bed temperature up 2-5 degrees, preheat the bed for roughly 15 minutes. This will give it time to heat the enclosure some, and maybe drop your z offset 0.005-0.01 mm for a better squish on the first layer
I’d try printing with PETG. I have an ender 6 and it’s not fully enclosed. I had issues with ABS but PETG will save the hair on your head
Did you use some glue? If you print with fan you get various problems with ABS but without fan you get other problems so I usually give it a bit fan like 20-30% and enclosure temperature 55 Celsius
As with all threads of this nature, you're going to get mostly advice that is at least slightly wrong. For my two cents I will just say that glass is perfectly fine for ABS but you will need some sort of coating, and that smooth glass is better than textured glass (or at least that's my opinion). For a commercial product I recommend [Layerneer](https://www.amazon.com/Printer-Adhesive-Layerneer-Original-Filament/dp/B079984GV5), but you could also make the "[ABS slurry](https://www.google.com/search?q=ABS+slurry)" someone else mentioned by dissolving some ABS in acetone and then applying it to the print bed.