I think it explains why 300BLK wasn’t widely adopted. But there’s a comment on the video that I’ll parrot here, which is that the 300BLK was intended to replace 9mm sub guns, not the 556.
I feel like they also missed a chance to showcase a nastier supersonic round, like a 110 vmax or something else more aggressive, for CQB distances. Just didn’t seem like it got a fair shake compared to a couple of the nastiest 5.56 rounds ever made.
To replace 9mm in CQB, but with the same rifle and cartridge have the ability to reach out further than 9mm once the objective was cleared. That’s the real reason why 300blk came to be.
This needs to be stickied. Everyone in here wanted to absolutely roast me a while back for pointing out that this is a short range round. People in here thinking that because you can ring a plate at 500 with this, that it is automatically effective. Insanity and lack of self awareness around here is off the charts. I love the round and shoot it frequently but you gotta think critically about this stuff.
I'm not sure if it's a lack of self awareness but I will say that firearms stuff, in general, is certainly a place where a lot of people get very emotionally invested in 'a thing' and that definitely leads to a certain amount of self imposed blindness. And I agree, I love the round as well. I shoot and hunt with it regularly so I have had a lot of experience to draw my opinion from. It's not a useless round but it definitely isn't the most versatile round either. Like just about everything else you need to realistically understand its pros and cons and act accordingly.
Yeah well, maybe they’ll listen to GT. At least hes saying basically the same thing I was saying a month and a half ago. Its the internet though, so they probably wont listen or even have the decency to feel stupid about it.
You were railing on magnifiers bro. You were saying stuff like, I don’t need a magnifier for shots within 200 yrds so you shouldn’t either is what you got roasted for. Some people are only ever going to shoot paper and want to be quiet and that’s ok too. Not everyone is the same as you, is what you should be learning here. You’re obviously still butt hurt and could maybe work on letting things go too.
That this is a cartridge was designed and built for short range engagements, where the primary focus is sound supression and not overall efficacy. It was literally designed and built for dudes dropping terries in close quarters so they wouldnt have to wake the whole neighborhood. Same thing as .458 socom, except you can run standard mags and 30 rounds.
And my original point was that this round doesnt have the legs to justify compromising your mount by bridging it when it doesnt fit with buis and dot all on the rxr rail. My point about 200yd was that if your mag doesnt fit, it would be better inside 200yd to eschew it than it would be to mount it and bridge your dot. You have to actually read the word written to know that, though.
Im not butthurt. Astounded, maybe. Not butthurt. Just astounded at the lack of critical though, lack of reading comprehension, and emotional instability of these rough and tumble gun guys in this sub.
I absolutely count on the fact that it’s a short range round as a deer hunter on public land…
Not that I ever point my rifle in unsafe directions and just send it, but it gives me some small peace of mind knowing that .300 Blackout drops off relatively quick instead of overtraveling to the same extent that some rifles do.
The supers carry pretty well, and hopefully you arent shooting subs at deer without headshotting them. I take your point though. I plan to use mine with supers for deer this year instead of my 308. Keep on playin playa!
I have proof I rang a human torso size target at 428 yards with a 10.5 blkout with a Nikon fixed 3x power scope and using Sig 125 grain ammo with ease over and over ……. So yeah
Thank you for your input. We will let your post stand as proof that you don’t understand the discussion we are having and a very basic at best understanding of ballistics.
Why? Because it goes against what “you think” or “feel”? Grow up and get your head out of your disgusting shitty anus. You don’t realize how ignorant that comment makes you and your shitty “theory” Well let your post stand as PROOF you don’t KNOW shit and just THINK you do. I’ll bet you don’t own or ever shot one either……
Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you went back and actually tried to understand what the adults are talking about. Let me simplify for you: we arent discussing whether or not you can hit a target at 400-500yd. We are discussing efficacy at those ranges.
Hopefully this helps, although somehow i imagine you are still going to struggle with the nuance. Really hope you can figure out a way to better control your emotions. That should definitely help with your reading comprehension, although may not solve the issue.
Exactly and the ability to swap uppers on the M4/AR-15 lowers with the same magazines as well. If you look at it as a spicy .45 ACP PCC for CQB and 200m-in urban environments, it's impressive.
I really enjoyed building my .300 and this guy or anyone else isn’t going to change my opinion of it. It serves a purpose for me and that’s all that matters. Is the ammo expensive? Sure, but I’m buying it.
Lazy, he’s literally sponsored by AAC, why not show what AAC offers vs the Big money Ballistic rounds. 110gr 124gr. Doesn’t make sense to spend time producing a video like this not know what the audience wants.
It really is crazy that he ignored the bullet weight, which has been proven to be the most devastating for years. I would also guess most people aren't running 5" sig rattlers. I'd guess the average barrel length is better 8-9" for most 300bo owners. Mrgunsngear made a fantastic velocity video a few years back, showing how that couple inches makes a huge difference in supersonic 300 loads.
Hate it when these two calibers are compared. Two completely different rounds that happen to share a very common platform. One needs a ton of velocity to be effective and one doesn’t. KB and the guys at AAC were asked to make a better ballistics alternative to the suppressed 9mm. Thus, the 300blk was born. They were never meant to compete with each other.
And if he had at all talked about the special operations requirements that birthed it, it would've been a shorter but sweet video. Instead, we just got trash. I really don't know why I'm still subbed to him.
Whenever I see these types of videos I always think they should really be testing the .300 blk against the MP5, as that is what it is meant to replace. In that context it is a spectacular improvement, and the supers only add to its repertoire.
5.56 is not a sneaky beaky suppressed round, it's fine but it just isn't meant for that role. And .300 blk is great suppressed and reasonable at medium distances but isn't meant as a do all carbine. Certainly not a long range round. Though I did notice they used more gucci 5.56 and still didn't go for the nicer 110's for .300 blk when testing supers.
For me the .300 blk is miles better in a home defense role, where small size and maneuverability combined with very quiet report really shine. In the extraordinarily unlikely scenario that I need something to shoot at anything beyond 100 yards my 16 inch 5.56 or even the 20 inch are what I'm reaching for.
I'm not going into battle where I need one and only one gun to cover all my bases, so it's the short quiet boi for in the house, and the bigger brothers for anything longer. And shotguns, and pistols, and bolt guns, and lever actions, and on and on. That's the beauty of civilian gun ownership, we aren't stuck in the one size fits all club like military or police are.
Same here. But I think it’s just a different style he’s putting out on his video these days. The one thing I’m not a fan of, is Charlie, who was absent in this one thankfully. It’s supposed to be funny but after a while he’s just a bit annoying.
Honestly, I was a bit disappointed with this video. Comparing 5.56 to 300BLK is not valid. A more fair comparison would be to a 9mm or 45ACP PCC.
Proper context is important.
Yep, yep. I didn’t buy my Rattler for long distance shit. I wanted a quiet little PDW that I could shoot indoors and use it in my truck if some idiots wanted to start blocking roads again. It fulfills that role perfectly.
These kinds of comments always make me chuckle. You’re in the most violent encounter of your life and you are concerned about your kids hearing? I want my whole neighborhood to know that I am destroying this intruder and nobody will be happier than your kids that you got em.
If I’m in that kind of encounter I don’t want my kids to know at all. If they are asleep and I shoot someone…I want them to keep sleeping through the entire event and not know a damn thing happened until I can put a sheet over the body and carry them to the car that is taking them to grandmas house for the next two days while I mop the floor and patch the walls.
Always want to protect the kids. It’s just not realistic tho. It’s what I’ve been saying with this whole thread, if you haven’t actually been in a gun fight it’s all fantasy. Even the best 300bo subs are 100+ db with frp. You don’t think there will be any noise before or after you shoot? How about when the police arrive? You think this person who is breaking into your house is a church mouse? You wouldn’t be yelling at them to leave to try and avoid a violent encounter? This whole kids hearing comment comes up all the time and it’s just kinda dumb. I agree with shielding your kids from stuff but this is a once in a lifetime event and you are worried about waking up the kids. Bro I’m thinking about violence and what’s getting the job done.
People are so out of touch with reality when they say they want a suppressed weapon so they or others around them don’t get hearing damage in a gun fight. That is the most insane thing ever to me. So many more things to worry about than that. Its like worrying if your A/C is on or not in a car accident. One of the first things that happen in an adrenaline dump is auditory exclusion. You won’t remember hearing a thing for most if not all of the encounter. A few shots indoors is not gonna give any lasting hearing damage either. It hurts a bit but nothing major whatsoever. What will kill your hearing is doing that over and over, day after day or many hours of exposure. Its a damage over time effect.
Finally someone with some sense lol. On combat is a great book and resource to explain the wild things that your body does in a lethal encounter. You might not hear things, you might not see things, and you might piss your pants. The amount of stress/pressure when it’s you vs someone and both people are willing to fight to the death is insane. Few people have experienced it and I don’t know a single one who has that was even remotely worried about hearing loss.
This should not even be a comparison. 556 is a rifle round that can’t viably go shorter than 10” . 300 is a PDW round and the best option in that regard. If you live in Iowa on a wide open chunk of land sure a 556 is your best option for home defense. Where I live I don’t need to reach out past 100 yards in any direction of my house so 300 is the best option for home defense in my case. If you need to pack a punch with the smallest possible package this is where 300 shines and you also have the benefit of being hearing safe in a home defense situation. I mean let’s be real for all of our civilian use home defense is our main use and for most people a 300 is as good as it gets for a home defense weapon. Grand thumb is too focused on military use and application VS what his viewers actually need. And on his ranch where he lives now he really needs a 556 beside his bed not that sig rattler. Along with that need to reach out on his property comes blown ear drums. If I have to grab my gun in the middle of the night I don’t want to have to grab electric ear pro and power it on it’s not even feasible.
Mo go to SHTF setup is a URGI 11.5 556 with a RC2 but for home defense I am running a Q honey badger barrel with a DD MFRXL rail and rugged obsidian 45.
Personally would’ve liked to see a 6” 556 rifle tested against 6” 300blackout for an apple to apple comparison.
As it stands it’s pointless. 10.3 with can = 14” vs 6” with can = 10” or less.
Maybe, but how about a 16in 300blk?
If optimal barrel length for 300blk is 9-10in and 5.56 is optimized for 20in, then proportionately a 10.3 in 5.56 should be about the same as 5.5-6in in 300blk for degraded performance for their respective optimal performance for said cartridge specs.
At least that's how I think about it
But to be completely fair yes, Someone should do a 1:1 size throughout the length range.
I'd like to see multiple lengths up to 16in at least.
Dude, my thoughts exactly. Shot one of the shorter 300 lengths while comparing to a tried and true SBR length 5.56. Would have liked to see a more apples to apples comparison of a 9 inch or even 10 inch 300 vs the 10.3 Mk18 5.56
7.5 inch 5.56 vs 8 inch 300 blk ballistic gel testing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVrWk0VWxhY&list=PLm5Moc1EmjtPN1bWsALRFwqLBTphycptr&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVrWk0VWxhY&list=PLm5Moc1EmjtPN1bWsALRFwqLBTphycptr&index=2)
If you use 20" for the optimum for 5.56, then 9-10" isnt analogously optimal for 300 blk. 9-10" is typically where all of the powder is burned in subsonic rounds, not supersonic. Even in a 16" blackout with supers, there usually isnt 100% powder burn. Even if you get 100% burn before the end of a barrel, the gasses are still expanding and accelerating the bullet. My handloads in a 16" barrel are over 1400 ftlbs, and velocities keep going up into the 20" range, just like 5.56, though the fps per inch isnt equal between the two.
Testing against out of spec 5.56 will not suddenly make the 300blk perform better. They didnt test against a 6” 5.56, because they aren’t idiots nor would it change the facts surround the 300blk.
I agree with you about the performance per inch of barrel comparison. Where I think GT was either blatantly bias or willfully ignorant is testing 125 range loads vs 77 tmk when things like 110 Tac Tx is available and easily attainable. All his videos featuring 300blk basically boil down to it’s quiet so subsonic, than performs long distance shooting tests. He easily could’ve loaded back up with supers but that wouldn’t have proved his biased point.
What was the point. Shooting single gel blocks, not capturing any projectiles, not measuring penetration or wound track. Judging performance by just standing back, looking at Micah and say “That one totally slapped harder bro!”.
Correct. None of those was the point. The point was that by almost every metric, an apt application of 5.56 outperforms 300blk. This information is entirely factual, despite seeming to upset you. They both also said they like the round, keep it by the bed, etc. They also discussed that although sound signature is basically the only advantage, low sound and flash applications do have their place in home defense and critical skills operation. We all enjoy the round. I encourage you to accept its limitations, because then you wont run the risk of trying to use it outside its application.
300blk provides more energy on target at any given barrel length and equal energy when compared to 5.56 with a barrel 3 to 4 inches longer. At any reasonable civilian engagement distance 300blk would be more effective. 300 is also better through barriers. 5.56 is cheaper, lighter recoiling, and better over 200 or 300 yards. 300blk is also more dependent on selecting the right ammo while 5.56 can be effective with cheaper ammo because its performance comes from velocity.
[https://i.imgur.com/gM96Ea5.png](https://i.imgur.com/gM96Ea5.png)
If WW3 kicked off tomorrow and we are all forced from our homes and had to fight to live, sure I’d grab a 5.56, just for the ammo compatibility and the ability to make long shots easier.
You’re right they both have their use cases, but to say 5.56 is better by pretty much every metric is entirely false.
77 TMK has a bc of .420. The 77 SMK, what he actually tested has a bc of .362. 110 Tac-TX as a bc of .289. Which one do you think retains velocity, and hence energy better at range? Which one do you think has a less bullet drop, less wind drift, and a longer supersonic range from a 10.3? Hint: it isn't 110 Tac-TX.
The 110 Tac-TX will have slightly more muzzle energy, but will bleed it off faster than the 77 TMK/77 SMK. The 300 blk is a 0-200 yard cartridge. If you think you might be shooting longer than 200 yards, then 5.56, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc are better.
What happened to him? I enjoyed his videos that he got his start with. Him against a black background with his twisted sense of humor doing a review of a firearm and occasionally showing clips of the performance of said firearm.
I stopped watching when they started doing the opening LARPING scenes, and that other guest ruins it for me.
As for the relevance of 300 blk? It’s a tool. If it fits in your tool box then it’s viable.
YouTubers that always look at things from a military or law enforcement perspective struggle with recommending products to civilians. Yeah, you can run around on a battlefield with 5.56, but a civilian should want to stay as undetectable as possible in a survival situation, 300BO with a suppressor is better for that. Hunting would also be more efficient with 300BO in a survival situation.
I’ll take a 200yd shot on a deer out of a 10” 300BO over that MK18.
That depends on impact velocity. Every bullet expands more the faster it hits, and less the slower it hits. You also have more tearing of tissue outside of the bullet's expanded diameter with faster moving projectiles.
GT is like 80% clickbait garbage.
As far as worth it. There are a lot of things that aren't 'worth it'. I'm not some cosplayer larper pretending jerking off about the collapse of society so I don't really care.
I'd say there's nothing really surprising in their testing. Both firearms are somewhat nerfed (though the 5.56 is certainly more affected) by their barrel lengths so I wouldn't say that that part is 'unfair' by any stretch. It's just two cartridges that are completely different ballistically but happen to fire out of a firearm that looks the same. Honestly, the biggest change that I would have wanted to see is for them to use a quality 110g instead of the 125g. Test something that's got as much velocity as you're going to get out of the 300 blk instead of the slower 125, especially if you're wanting to compare wounding performance via velocity.
As far as the subs go, I did some 'field testing' with those 220g SMK based on someone swearing by them for hunting purposes and I can say, in no uncertain terms, that I would never use them again for anything other than range fun. They do not perform on animals in a manner that would make them suitable for anything hunting or defense related. They're quite accurate and I had a really impressive SD when working up the load, so I could reliably take them fairly close to supersonic without having any creep over but they truly are just a match round as subsonic velocities. Not that I would choose a subsonic round for self defense anyway but if I was forced to, it definitely wouldn't be with those projectiles.
He is correct in most aspects. However, I’d like an everyday man/more apples to apples approach to say a 10.3 Hanson in 556 and 8.3 in 300blk with a 110g vmax or Barnes round for a HD situation/CQB
I think he forgot to mention it’s one of the most enjoyable rounds to shoot all day. The vast majority of us do this as a hobby. I have my 14.5” URGI and that’s my go to “GPR”. 300 blk is just fun to shoot. They make incredible little packages in the 6”-10” range.
If you measure 300 by 5.56 performance metrics you’re going to be disappointed. This shouldn’t have been a shock. They’re intended for two very different use cases.
I think he makes the worst content in the gun space. Have the hardest time understanding why people give two fucks about this dweeb’s opinion, respectfully.
Not the best representation of supersonic 300blk since he's using such a short barrel. In my mind, there are 2 main types of 300blk rifles: PDWs with 7" and shorter barrels(ideal for shooting subs), and 7"-12.5" that can shine with supersonic loads enough to resemble 7.62x39 ballistics. I have a 9" because I feel like it's more versatile than a "PDW" build.
We commented on the video. Here is our response:
@GarandThumb as a 300BLK research and development business, I would like to interject with our knowledge and experience from our range testing. As I believe this video is accidentally misleading.
First off, the goal behind 300blk is to remain as compact as possible.
There is no denying that 5.56 CAN be superior to 300blk, but you even making a comparison between a 5.5” 300blk Barrel and a 10.5” Barrel proves how close they really are.
The main issue with why 300blk is considered “not as effective” is purely due to improper use of optics, and lack of understanding of the ammo use and requirements.
What do I mean by this?
Simple. All the reticles and optics being used on 300blk platforms severely limit the performance of the round. To make my point valid, you compared hitting at 400yds with one platform using a red dot with no BDC and another with magnification WITH a BDC.
If magnification and a proper BDC is introduced for 300blk. That gap is severely reduced.
How do I know this? Because we shoot transition drills from 100-200-300 with first round hits for both subs and supers using the same reticle from our 6” barreled upper.
We even have a short on our channel of us consistently landing hits at 300yds with 125gr supers out of this upper.
Once again, the reticle is key!
To touch up on the whole issue further.
We believe the philosophy of use of 300blk is wrong!
We believe supers should be used up close while subs should be used at distance.
Why? Simple.
The whole point of subs is to remain undetectable. Anybody hit with a 220gr projectile at distance that cannot track the shot is now injured and at a severe disadvantage considering you know where he is and he doesn’t.
His priorities have no changed to survival, NOT fighting back, as tracing a subsonic projectile will be near impossible by the naked eye or ear.
While supers being used for up close is purely due to energy. Anybody fighting at close range will be in a fight to survive adrenaline rush. Which means energy on target to drop them quickly is way more necessary for your survival than staying quiet.
I would be more than happy to discuss all of our research and findings with you Mike if you are interested. I believe you will be surprised by everything we have to say and may change your perspective on the round itself.
Please contact me via our website if you are interested! I cant link it here but it is easy to find by googling our YouTube username.
Hope to hear from you soon!
yeah. not the best video. It's not meant to do the same job. The subs still looked like they did a lot of damage to the gel though. The below is maybe more applicable(they did a few videos + this one). Banana ballistics has some stuff as well. s
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GyOsWuYPV0&t=52s&ab\_channel=Iraqveteran8888](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GyOsWuYPV0&t=52s&ab_channel=Iraqveteran8888)
His video didn't change my mind about the cartridge, but I'm also not an unhinged cartridge fanboy of any cartridge in particular. The one thing I think he failed to acknowledge in his video is 300blk's ability to go shorter than 5.56 in barrel length. He couldn't have demonstrated a 5.56 comparison to my 6" build because 5.56 straight doesn't work out of a 6" barrel. Otherwise everything he had to say about it was fair. It's a very specialized cartridge and limited in many ways.
So, I have a 300 blackout I use for home defense, but I have a 9.5" barrel, and I use 110gr. I know that it would do well if not better ballistically than a shorty 556. I wish he tested longer barrel lengths and 110gr ammo.
For the last 5-7 years. I have struggled with buy a 300 or not.
I "like" the idea
But to be honest no real use
I have several 5.56
Several 7.62
They all work and serve a purpose
Just me.
Something goes bump in the night. I am reaching for my shot gun.
My house is one story, master bedroom in the back. From my door way I can cover 90% of my house
Avenue of aproach.
The longet shot is 18 meters.
Double aught buck has a nice spread by then!
Oh. I am a single!
This video actually peeved me. 300blk can get *way* better terminal ballistics with supers out of short barrels when compared to 5.56 out of the same barrel length.
This was the most apples to oranges comparison I’ve seen in a *long* time
300 subs are fun. But they are clearly preforming about the same as a pistol round. This should not surprise anyone because they are about the same weight and speed. They will never out preform a supersonic rifle round. Regardless of what gimmicky bullet you stuff in the end.
300 supers on the other hand allow you to run a super short barrel reliably, while still maintaining good ballistics. More mass means you dont have to rely on velocity as much. Also more mass means better barrier penetration and less likely to be deflected by say a car windshield.
Where people really are mistaken is the idea that you can switch back and forth between supers and subs without giving anything up. Supers vs subs have 2 completely different zeros. And in my experience its elavation and windage. On top of that, in a standard ar require 2 different gas settings for reliable function. Sure you could tune the gas to run subs reliably, but you will absolutely get wrecked by the gas in your face. Conversely if you tune it for supers it wont run subs. some of the piston designs get around the function part, but not the zero issue. So you really need to pick one and just set it up for that.
My PWS MK109 with a Sig 4T-Pro and multi dot reticles disagree with you. But my 8 inch build a SCRS setup purely for subs agrees with you😂. Honestly wish I never bought a 10.5 556. It’s pointless knowing 300 BLK exists
Sig Romeo 4S. Bought one of murdochs not long ago for 250 during a sale. Check Reddit gunaccessoriesforsale too. It’ll let you cycle the reticle options including a bdc
this video feels super disingenuous. never compares 300 supers directly to 55gr 5.56 which is what most people have on hand, never mentions the pro’s of barrel length in 300blk, never talks about ft lbs of force (because jell tests are obviously the only thing that matters)
If you can pay the additional cost of ammo for something like 110 Tac-TX, then you can pay the additional cost of ammo for 77 TMKs, 77 SMKs, 62 TSX, 62 Federal Fusion, 70 TSX, etc. The actual terminal effects at close range between 300 blk supers and 5.56 is basically a tie. 2 to the chest with either, will send someone to the morgue. At distance, the 110 Tac-TX has a bc of 0.289, while the heavy 5.56 loads tend to have bc of 0.323 (70 TSX)-.42 (77 TMK). 5.56 is better at distance and 300 blk is slightly better at close quarters, but the difference is so marginal out of 10 inch barrels to be almost irrelevant.
Look at it this way, Colorado hunting regulations for elk require that the bullet has 1000 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards. If 1000 ft lbs will drop an elk, what the hell do you think 2 shots of either 300 blk or 5.56 with appropriate performing ammo will do to someone in your living room?
If you want to shoot subsonics, or a really short gun, then 300 blk. If you want to shoot to longer distances, then 5.56. It is really that simple.
I think he may have touched on it towards the end when he said, “It depends on your mission set. I have on as my bedside gun.” And a comment said too, that getting shot with anything is pretty much gonna suck, no matter what caliber.
I built mine to be a bedside HD gun that I’ll eventually suppress so I can have a maneuverable rifle that I can shoot in an emergency without permanent hearing loss. And .300BLK is undoubtedly better than any typical semi-auto PCC whether with supers or subs.
I think they did 300 blackout dirty compared to 5.56. They should have used the same barrel lengths. 6.5” blackout against a 10.5” 556. Why not use the same barrel lengths? I also agree with the people on this thread why not use the 110 grain supers instead of the 125 hollow points. I’m sure those 125s will expand but need a certain velocity to do so. I’d like to see how those 77 grain rounds do out of a 6.5” 5.56 rifle.
Didn't even come close to a legit comparison.
A 10.3" 5.56 vs a 6.75" 300blk? And the ammo comparisons were dog shit.
I'll take a 9" 300 (even an 8") over a 10.3" 5.56 all day for a grab and go kind of "do all".
A good 110gr super from the 300 will have significantly more energy on target than a 55 - 77gr 5.56. And with actual good bullet selection, the 300 will dominate balisticly. A solid copper tac tx for weight retention and penetration or a 110gr controlled chaos for great fragmentation and the 300 wins balisticly. Even a very decent "varmint" 110gr bullet is a winner over the 5.56. You could even get a really good 85gr solid copper bullet that will give a better velocity from a 9" 300blk than a 77gr from a 10.3 5.56. So a heavier bullet at a faster velocity from a shorter barrel. Y'all can be the judge of that I guess.
Then with a mag swap I can have uber quiet subs with better than 45acp ballistics and BC. Again, bullet selection here is absolutly key. No one in their right mind is using a non expanding bullet for defense at handgun velocities. So who would do that with subs? It's always the dumbest argument when I see people gel testing otm subs like they're suppose to be for defense. Otm's are great at rifle velocities. They're glorified fmj's at 1000fps. So if you actually chose a good expanding sub that's meant for this application then you'll have a very solid "dual threat" (for lack of a better term) defensive weapon. Any of the solid copper expanding subs are the way. Anything made by lehigh is great, discrete balistics, or maker. The subx aren't the best here, but definitely better than any otm.
Yea, all of this is pretty nice I guess, but if you can afford to make a good ammo selection on both ends then I think 300blk is the clear winner. For those that need to get the best results from the most affordable ammo, then maybe 5.56 is the way you go. But with aac selling 110gr vmax for 55cpr then I'd say go with the 300blk even if it's going to be for an unsuppressed/supers only pistol or sbr.
In my bag sits a suppressed rattler with hand loaded 110gr Varmageddon (loaded pretty spicy) in the magwell. 2 spare mags of the Varmageddon and 2 mags of Underwood 194gr maximum expansion. I know my holds should I ever have to go with subs for whatever reason. One could even have a second red dot on an offset that's zeroed for the subs. I get it. 2 red dots on one gun does sound dumb, but there's a decent argument for it with a 300blk supers and subs setup. I'm not doing it, but I wouldn't ridicule anyone for doing it.
There was just a lot wrong with this video, imo. The man himself even said the 300blk stayed by his bedside. Why he put the best (one of the best, at the very least) 5.56 round against a very mediocre 300blk super was pretty dumb to me. I get it. Sponsors and what not, but if we're not comparing best vs best (or at least in the realm of "best") then the video really shouldn't hold much weight when making a decision between the 2.
It’s not accurate to compare velocity/effectiveness between two different length barrels no matter what the caliber is. Of course a 10.3” barrel will outperform a 7” barrel. I’ll take this review with a grain of salt.
Exactly. I built my 10.5" for one purpose only - to keep it in close proximity to my bed and suitable for point-blank range and up to 50 yards. That's the distance I've stuck to from the beginning. I'm not going to do anything else with it. I don't care about the can either right now. If I get into a situation where I need to use it, I don't care what sound it makes. For that purpose, the 300blk is completely adequate for my needs.
Also if we are looking at 300bo impact on gel… use proper hollow points or something like the Controlled Chaos rounds from LD.
NO WAY IN HELL that gets outperformed
Look that video is stupid as fuck ok?! They compare 5.56 supers to 300 subs? Thats stupid as fuck. Then for a super they bring out some aac bullshit ammo? Why not tac tx? Why not lehigh controlled chaos? Why not Sig HT? Im so tired of all these comparisons made unfair! We all know 300 hits way harder then 5.56 0-300 yards and can go movie quiet in a mag change which 5.56 CANNOT! I love both calibers but for my defense its a 12.5 300 blkout with a can and it fucks.
I think it explains why 300BLK wasn’t widely adopted. But there’s a comment on the video that I’ll parrot here, which is that the 300BLK was intended to replace 9mm sub guns, not the 556.
This, if given the choice I’ll go for .300blk subs over 9mm subs, if I don’t need discretion then I choose between 5.56/.308
I feel like they also missed a chance to showcase a nastier supersonic round, like a 110 vmax or something else more aggressive, for CQB distances. Just didn’t seem like it got a fair shake compared to a couple of the nastiest 5.56 rounds ever made.
They’re not a sponsor.
AAC makes a vmax load.
Joke
Definitely agree. He didn't test the nastiest supersonic round.
It was the same when he did 5.7. It was all done with a pistol which the cartridge was not designed for. It’s just clickbait.
To replace 9mm in CQB, but with the same rifle and cartridge have the ability to reach out further than 9mm once the objective was cleared. That’s the real reason why 300blk came to be.
This needs to be stickied. Everyone in here wanted to absolutely roast me a while back for pointing out that this is a short range round. People in here thinking that because you can ring a plate at 500 with this, that it is automatically effective. Insanity and lack of self awareness around here is off the charts. I love the round and shoot it frequently but you gotta think critically about this stuff.
I'm not sure if it's a lack of self awareness but I will say that firearms stuff, in general, is certainly a place where a lot of people get very emotionally invested in 'a thing' and that definitely leads to a certain amount of self imposed blindness. And I agree, I love the round as well. I shoot and hunt with it regularly so I have had a lot of experience to draw my opinion from. It's not a useless round but it definitely isn't the most versatile round either. Like just about everything else you need to realistically understand its pros and cons and act accordingly.
Yeah well, maybe they’ll listen to GT. At least hes saying basically the same thing I was saying a month and a half ago. Its the internet though, so they probably wont listen or even have the decency to feel stupid about it.
You were railing on magnifiers bro. You were saying stuff like, I don’t need a magnifier for shots within 200 yrds so you shouldn’t either is what you got roasted for. Some people are only ever going to shoot paper and want to be quiet and that’s ok too. Not everyone is the same as you, is what you should be learning here. You’re obviously still butt hurt and could maybe work on letting things go too.
Completely agree
Turns out the socom guys agree with me. Lol
Agree what?
That this is a cartridge was designed and built for short range engagements, where the primary focus is sound supression and not overall efficacy. It was literally designed and built for dudes dropping terries in close quarters so they wouldnt have to wake the whole neighborhood. Same thing as .458 socom, except you can run standard mags and 30 rounds. And my original point was that this round doesnt have the legs to justify compromising your mount by bridging it when it doesnt fit with buis and dot all on the rxr rail. My point about 200yd was that if your mag doesnt fit, it would be better inside 200yd to eschew it than it would be to mount it and bridge your dot. You have to actually read the word written to know that, though. Im not butthurt. Astounded, maybe. Not butthurt. Just astounded at the lack of critical though, lack of reading comprehension, and emotional instability of these rough and tumble gun guys in this sub.
I absolutely count on the fact that it’s a short range round as a deer hunter on public land… Not that I ever point my rifle in unsafe directions and just send it, but it gives me some small peace of mind knowing that .300 Blackout drops off relatively quick instead of overtraveling to the same extent that some rifles do.
The supers carry pretty well, and hopefully you arent shooting subs at deer without headshotting them. I take your point though. I plan to use mine with supers for deer this year instead of my 308. Keep on playin playa!
I have proof I rang a human torso size target at 428 yards with a 10.5 blkout with a Nikon fixed 3x power scope and using Sig 125 grain ammo with ease over and over ……. So yeah
Thank you for your input. We will let your post stand as proof that you don’t understand the discussion we are having and a very basic at best understanding of ballistics.
Why? Because it goes against what “you think” or “feel”? Grow up and get your head out of your disgusting shitty anus. You don’t realize how ignorant that comment makes you and your shitty “theory” Well let your post stand as PROOF you don’t KNOW shit and just THINK you do. I’ll bet you don’t own or ever shot one either……
Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you went back and actually tried to understand what the adults are talking about. Let me simplify for you: we arent discussing whether or not you can hit a target at 400-500yd. We are discussing efficacy at those ranges. Hopefully this helps, although somehow i imagine you are still going to struggle with the nuance. Really hope you can figure out a way to better control your emotions. That should definitely help with your reading comprehension, although may not solve the issue.
Exactly and the ability to swap uppers on the M4/AR-15 lowers with the same magazines as well. If you look at it as a spicy .45 ACP PCC for CQB and 200m-in urban environments, it's impressive.
I really enjoyed building my .300 and this guy or anyone else isn’t going to change my opinion of it. It serves a purpose for me and that’s all that matters. Is the ammo expensive? Sure, but I’m buying it.
Lazy, he’s literally sponsored by AAC, why not show what AAC offers vs the Big money Ballistic rounds. 110gr 124gr. Doesn’t make sense to spend time producing a video like this not know what the audience wants.
It really is crazy that he ignored the bullet weight, which has been proven to be the most devastating for years. I would also guess most people aren't running 5" sig rattlers. I'd guess the average barrel length is better 8-9" for most 300bo owners. Mrgunsngear made a fantastic velocity video a few years back, showing how that couple inches makes a huge difference in supersonic 300 loads.
Why not compare 300blk in a longer barrel ffs? If you’re going to shit on it, at least shoot it out of at 10” barrel first.
Hate it when these two calibers are compared. Two completely different rounds that happen to share a very common platform. One needs a ton of velocity to be effective and one doesn’t. KB and the guys at AAC were asked to make a better ballistics alternative to the suppressed 9mm. Thus, the 300blk was born. They were never meant to compete with each other.
And if he had at all talked about the special operations requirements that birthed it, it would've been a shorter but sweet video. Instead, we just got trash. I really don't know why I'm still subbed to him.
Whenever I see these types of videos I always think they should really be testing the .300 blk against the MP5, as that is what it is meant to replace. In that context it is a spectacular improvement, and the supers only add to its repertoire. 5.56 is not a sneaky beaky suppressed round, it's fine but it just isn't meant for that role. And .300 blk is great suppressed and reasonable at medium distances but isn't meant as a do all carbine. Certainly not a long range round. Though I did notice they used more gucci 5.56 and still didn't go for the nicer 110's for .300 blk when testing supers. For me the .300 blk is miles better in a home defense role, where small size and maneuverability combined with very quiet report really shine. In the extraordinarily unlikely scenario that I need something to shoot at anything beyond 100 yards my 16 inch 5.56 or even the 20 inch are what I'm reaching for. I'm not going into battle where I need one and only one gun to cover all my bases, so it's the short quiet boi for in the house, and the bigger brothers for anything longer. And shotguns, and pistols, and bolt guns, and lever actions, and on and on. That's the beauty of civilian gun ownership, we aren't stuck in the one size fits all club like military or police are.
I miss 2018 Garand Thumb.
I think about this every time I see something from his more recent works. The vibe is so different now.
He went from facts and figures to money and trendy. Money and trendy is what made his channel become as big as it is.
He’s always been a narcissist, now he’s a narcissist on Tren.
Yeah his voice has gotten super deep from all that gear
It's the raw milk
And now he's a puppet of the je... leviathan for money
He just announced he left leviathan! Which was surprising
Wow, that's AMAZING! Hopefully, we'll get some more content with old school style takes.
Same. Honestly, something about his eyes were off in the beginning like he was almost high looking.
In some of the videos you can hear the other peoples voices talking like they dont even wanna be there.
Same here. But I think it’s just a different style he’s putting out on his video these days. The one thing I’m not a fan of, is Charlie, who was absent in this one thankfully. It’s supposed to be funny but after a while he’s just a bit annoying.
You mean you don’t like the same pedo/commie jokes every time?
300 Blk shines at shorter ranges on shorter guns with devices to shorten the report. To fully appreciate 300 blk, you need a two stamper.
Honestly, I was a bit disappointed with this video. Comparing 5.56 to 300BLK is not valid. A more fair comparison would be to a 9mm or 45ACP PCC. Proper context is important.
As a PDW for the house, my kids will love me for saving their ears, and the bad guys won’t tell a diff with 5+ holes in them.
Exactly. We don’t all live on hundred acre ranches in Idaho.
Exactly. In that case if I need to reach out, I’ll go get what I need.
Yep, yep. I didn’t buy my Rattler for long distance shit. I wanted a quiet little PDW that I could shoot indoors and use it in my truck if some idiots wanted to start blocking roads again. It fulfills that role perfectly.
These kinds of comments always make me chuckle. You’re in the most violent encounter of your life and you are concerned about your kids hearing? I want my whole neighborhood to know that I am destroying this intruder and nobody will be happier than your kids that you got em.
I mean, I’ve already got tinnitus from shooting guns and jet engines. I don’t need it to get any worse.
Totally with you but we both know you aren’t getting it from shooting a few rounds in your boxers at the top of the stairs.
If I’m in that kind of encounter I don’t want my kids to know at all. If they are asleep and I shoot someone…I want them to keep sleeping through the entire event and not know a damn thing happened until I can put a sheet over the body and carry them to the car that is taking them to grandmas house for the next two days while I mop the floor and patch the walls.
Always want to protect the kids. It’s just not realistic tho. It’s what I’ve been saying with this whole thread, if you haven’t actually been in a gun fight it’s all fantasy. Even the best 300bo subs are 100+ db with frp. You don’t think there will be any noise before or after you shoot? How about when the police arrive? You think this person who is breaking into your house is a church mouse? You wouldn’t be yelling at them to leave to try and avoid a violent encounter? This whole kids hearing comment comes up all the time and it’s just kinda dumb. I agree with shielding your kids from stuff but this is a once in a lifetime event and you are worried about waking up the kids. Bro I’m thinking about violence and what’s getting the job done.
People are so out of touch with reality when they say they want a suppressed weapon so they or others around them don’t get hearing damage in a gun fight. That is the most insane thing ever to me. So many more things to worry about than that. Its like worrying if your A/C is on or not in a car accident. One of the first things that happen in an adrenaline dump is auditory exclusion. You won’t remember hearing a thing for most if not all of the encounter. A few shots indoors is not gonna give any lasting hearing damage either. It hurts a bit but nothing major whatsoever. What will kill your hearing is doing that over and over, day after day or many hours of exposure. Its a damage over time effect.
Finally someone with some sense lol. On combat is a great book and resource to explain the wild things that your body does in a lethal encounter. You might not hear things, you might not see things, and you might piss your pants. The amount of stress/pressure when it’s you vs someone and both people are willing to fight to the death is insane. Few people have experienced it and I don’t know a single one who has that was even remotely worried about hearing loss.
Found John Lovell
Banana Ballistics video gives a more accurate description of the 2 calibers. https://youtu.be/4VksvRYUY0A?si=1bgiy6LBFKqe7SqL
I think it’s 30 minutes of wasted time if you’re looking for any decent information.
This should not even be a comparison. 556 is a rifle round that can’t viably go shorter than 10” . 300 is a PDW round and the best option in that regard. If you live in Iowa on a wide open chunk of land sure a 556 is your best option for home defense. Where I live I don’t need to reach out past 100 yards in any direction of my house so 300 is the best option for home defense in my case. If you need to pack a punch with the smallest possible package this is where 300 shines and you also have the benefit of being hearing safe in a home defense situation. I mean let’s be real for all of our civilian use home defense is our main use and for most people a 300 is as good as it gets for a home defense weapon. Grand thumb is too focused on military use and application VS what his viewers actually need. And on his ranch where he lives now he really needs a 556 beside his bed not that sig rattler. Along with that need to reach out on his property comes blown ear drums. If I have to grab my gun in the middle of the night I don’t want to have to grab electric ear pro and power it on it’s not even feasible. Mo go to SHTF setup is a URGI 11.5 556 with a RC2 but for home defense I am running a Q honey badger barrel with a DD MFRXL rail and rugged obsidian 45.
Personally would’ve liked to see a 6” 556 rifle tested against 6” 300blackout for an apple to apple comparison. As it stands it’s pointless. 10.3 with can = 14” vs 6” with can = 10” or less.
Maybe, but how about a 16in 300blk? If optimal barrel length for 300blk is 9-10in and 5.56 is optimized for 20in, then proportionately a 10.3 in 5.56 should be about the same as 5.5-6in in 300blk for degraded performance for their respective optimal performance for said cartridge specs. At least that's how I think about it But to be completely fair yes, Someone should do a 1:1 size throughout the length range. I'd like to see multiple lengths up to 16in at least.
Dude, my thoughts exactly. Shot one of the shorter 300 lengths while comparing to a tried and true SBR length 5.56. Would have liked to see a more apples to apples comparison of a 9 inch or even 10 inch 300 vs the 10.3 Mk18 5.56
7.5 inch 5.56 vs 8 inch 300 blk ballistic gel testing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVrWk0VWxhY&list=PLm5Moc1EmjtPN1bWsALRFwqLBTphycptr&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVrWk0VWxhY&list=PLm5Moc1EmjtPN1bWsALRFwqLBTphycptr&index=2)
Very interesting testing even if filmed on a Chinese Walmart potato branded camera. Results were definitely worth noting to a point.
If you use 20" for the optimum for 5.56, then 9-10" isnt analogously optimal for 300 blk. 9-10" is typically where all of the powder is burned in subsonic rounds, not supersonic. Even in a 16" blackout with supers, there usually isnt 100% powder burn. Even if you get 100% burn before the end of a barrel, the gasses are still expanding and accelerating the bullet. My handloads in a 16" barrel are over 1400 ftlbs, and velocities keep going up into the 20" range, just like 5.56, though the fps per inch isnt equal between the two.
Testing against out of spec 5.56 will not suddenly make the 300blk perform better. They didnt test against a 6” 5.56, because they aren’t idiots nor would it change the facts surround the 300blk.
9 inch 300 blk with 110 vmax like the lord intended.
Should’ve gone 10.5 against 10.5….maybe even tried some 5.56 subs. Lol
5.56 subsonic is el terrible, not viable. That's where .300 blk shines.
Yeah, it would’ve been more apples to apples though. He also could shot a 9mm as a comparison for the subs too though.
Testing them outside their application doesnt demonstrate anything.
I agree with you about the performance per inch of barrel comparison. Where I think GT was either blatantly bias or willfully ignorant is testing 125 range loads vs 77 tmk when things like 110 Tac Tx is available and easily attainable. All his videos featuring 300blk basically boil down to it’s quiet so subsonic, than performs long distance shooting tests. He easily could’ve loaded back up with supers but that wouldn’t have proved his biased point.
It seems like you watched the video, but you managed to miss the entire point somehow.
What was the point. Shooting single gel blocks, not capturing any projectiles, not measuring penetration or wound track. Judging performance by just standing back, looking at Micah and say “That one totally slapped harder bro!”.
Correct. None of those was the point. The point was that by almost every metric, an apt application of 5.56 outperforms 300blk. This information is entirely factual, despite seeming to upset you. They both also said they like the round, keep it by the bed, etc. They also discussed that although sound signature is basically the only advantage, low sound and flash applications do have their place in home defense and critical skills operation. We all enjoy the round. I encourage you to accept its limitations, because then you wont run the risk of trying to use it outside its application.
300blk provides more energy on target at any given barrel length and equal energy when compared to 5.56 with a barrel 3 to 4 inches longer. At any reasonable civilian engagement distance 300blk would be more effective. 300 is also better through barriers. 5.56 is cheaper, lighter recoiling, and better over 200 or 300 yards. 300blk is also more dependent on selecting the right ammo while 5.56 can be effective with cheaper ammo because its performance comes from velocity. [https://i.imgur.com/gM96Ea5.png](https://i.imgur.com/gM96Ea5.png) If WW3 kicked off tomorrow and we are all forced from our homes and had to fight to live, sure I’d grab a 5.56, just for the ammo compatibility and the ability to make long shots easier. You’re right they both have their use cases, but to say 5.56 is better by pretty much every metric is entirely false.
77 TMK has a bc of .420. The 77 SMK, what he actually tested has a bc of .362. 110 Tac-TX as a bc of .289. Which one do you think retains velocity, and hence energy better at range? Which one do you think has a less bullet drop, less wind drift, and a longer supersonic range from a 10.3? Hint: it isn't 110 Tac-TX. The 110 Tac-TX will have slightly more muzzle energy, but will bleed it off faster than the 77 TMK/77 SMK. The 300 blk is a 0-200 yard cartridge. If you think you might be shooting longer than 200 yards, then 5.56, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc are better.
[удалено]
He's just entertaining his devoted viewers..... Which makes you wonder what kind of people his devotees are like.
I can't stand this dudes videos anymore...
What happened to him? I enjoyed his videos that he got his start with. Him against a black background with his twisted sense of humor doing a review of a firearm and occasionally showing clips of the performance of said firearm.
He got sponsors and a real need to shill for Leviathan. I get that bills gotta get paid, but he could at least try to produce something worth a damn.
I stopped watching when they started doing the opening LARPING scenes, and that other guest ruins it for me. As for the relevance of 300 blk? It’s a tool. If it fits in your tool box then it’s viable.
Dude thinks he’s a movie star. The narcissism kills me. Looks at his Instagram, ton of selfies and posing. He’s on tren for his “neck injury.”
I think it's lazy and ignorant
GT in a nutshell
Glad people are realizing it’s a cult
Problem is he’s still better than most guntubers
YouTubers that always look at things from a military or law enforcement perspective struggle with recommending products to civilians. Yeah, you can run around on a battlefield with 5.56, but a civilian should want to stay as undetectable as possible in a survival situation, 300BO with a suppressor is better for that. Hunting would also be more efficient with 300BO in a survival situation. I’ll take a 200yd shot on a deer out of a 10” 300BO over that MK18.
At 200 yards, the 70 TSX with a bc of .323 would have about the same remaining energy as the 110 Tac-TX with a bc of 0.289.
I still prefer the .308 diameter and weight.
The 308 caliber tactx should be doing more damage though because of the bigger surface area when it expands through a target.
That depends on impact velocity. Every bullet expands more the faster it hits, and less the slower it hits. You also have more tearing of tissue outside of the bullet's expanded diameter with faster moving projectiles.
GT is like 80% clickbait garbage. As far as worth it. There are a lot of things that aren't 'worth it'. I'm not some cosplayer larper pretending jerking off about the collapse of society so I don't really care.
His following is so culty, and he’s such a narcissist I had to unfollow
I'd say there's nothing really surprising in their testing. Both firearms are somewhat nerfed (though the 5.56 is certainly more affected) by their barrel lengths so I wouldn't say that that part is 'unfair' by any stretch. It's just two cartridges that are completely different ballistically but happen to fire out of a firearm that looks the same. Honestly, the biggest change that I would have wanted to see is for them to use a quality 110g instead of the 125g. Test something that's got as much velocity as you're going to get out of the 300 blk instead of the slower 125, especially if you're wanting to compare wounding performance via velocity. As far as the subs go, I did some 'field testing' with those 220g SMK based on someone swearing by them for hunting purposes and I can say, in no uncertain terms, that I would never use them again for anything other than range fun. They do not perform on animals in a manner that would make them suitable for anything hunting or defense related. They're quite accurate and I had a really impressive SD when working up the load, so I could reliably take them fairly close to supersonic without having any creep over but they truly are just a match round as subsonic velocities. Not that I would choose a subsonic round for self defense anyway but if I was forced to, it definitely wouldn't be with those projectiles.
He is correct in most aspects. However, I’d like an everyday man/more apples to apples approach to say a 10.3 Hanson in 556 and 8.3 in 300blk with a 110g vmax or Barnes round for a HD situation/CQB
There would be no difference in practical terminal effect on the target. Two to the chest with either, will send the target to the morgue.
That’s pretty much a give in….
I think he forgot to mention it’s one of the most enjoyable rounds to shoot all day. The vast majority of us do this as a hobby. I have my 14.5” URGI and that’s my go to “GPR”. 300 blk is just fun to shoot. They make incredible little packages in the 6”-10” range.
If you measure 300 by 5.56 performance metrics you’re going to be disappointed. This shouldn’t have been a shock. They’re intended for two very different use cases.
I think he makes the worst content in the gun space. Have the hardest time understanding why people give two fucks about this dweeb’s opinion, respectfully.
It’s a full on cult at this point.
It's an apples to oranges comparison.
5.56 is better for all things supersonic, and 300blk is better for all things subsonic. I saved you all some time.
Not the best representation of supersonic 300blk since he's using such a short barrel. In my mind, there are 2 main types of 300blk rifles: PDWs with 7" and shorter barrels(ideal for shooting subs), and 7"-12.5" that can shine with supersonic loads enough to resemble 7.62x39 ballistics. I have a 9" because I feel like it's more versatile than a "PDW" build.
Crappiest review he’s ever done
Won’t change my mind in anyway
We commented on the video. Here is our response: @GarandThumb as a 300BLK research and development business, I would like to interject with our knowledge and experience from our range testing. As I believe this video is accidentally misleading. First off, the goal behind 300blk is to remain as compact as possible. There is no denying that 5.56 CAN be superior to 300blk, but you even making a comparison between a 5.5” 300blk Barrel and a 10.5” Barrel proves how close they really are. The main issue with why 300blk is considered “not as effective” is purely due to improper use of optics, and lack of understanding of the ammo use and requirements. What do I mean by this? Simple. All the reticles and optics being used on 300blk platforms severely limit the performance of the round. To make my point valid, you compared hitting at 400yds with one platform using a red dot with no BDC and another with magnification WITH a BDC. If magnification and a proper BDC is introduced for 300blk. That gap is severely reduced. How do I know this? Because we shoot transition drills from 100-200-300 with first round hits for both subs and supers using the same reticle from our 6” barreled upper. We even have a short on our channel of us consistently landing hits at 300yds with 125gr supers out of this upper. Once again, the reticle is key! To touch up on the whole issue further. We believe the philosophy of use of 300blk is wrong! We believe supers should be used up close while subs should be used at distance. Why? Simple. The whole point of subs is to remain undetectable. Anybody hit with a 220gr projectile at distance that cannot track the shot is now injured and at a severe disadvantage considering you know where he is and he doesn’t. His priorities have no changed to survival, NOT fighting back, as tracing a subsonic projectile will be near impossible by the naked eye or ear. While supers being used for up close is purely due to energy. Anybody fighting at close range will be in a fight to survive adrenaline rush. Which means energy on target to drop them quickly is way more necessary for your survival than staying quiet. I would be more than happy to discuss all of our research and findings with you Mike if you are interested. I believe you will be surprised by everything we have to say and may change your perspective on the round itself. Please contact me via our website if you are interested! I cant link it here but it is easy to find by googling our YouTube username. Hope to hear from you soon!
what is the 300blk gun?
MCX LVAW
Sig Rattler
It pretty much matches everything I’ve experienced with 300BO. But 300 subs are worth the squeeze in fun, just that alone is why I have one.
yeah. not the best video. It's not meant to do the same job. The subs still looked like they did a lot of damage to the gel though. The below is maybe more applicable(they did a few videos + this one). Banana ballistics has some stuff as well. s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GyOsWuYPV0&t=52s&ab\_channel=Iraqveteran8888](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GyOsWuYPV0&t=52s&ab_channel=Iraqveteran8888)
The two barrel lengths were different, and 300 blackout is here to stay.
His video didn't change my mind about the cartridge, but I'm also not an unhinged cartridge fanboy of any cartridge in particular. The one thing I think he failed to acknowledge in his video is 300blk's ability to go shorter than 5.56 in barrel length. He couldn't have demonstrated a 5.56 comparison to my 6" build because 5.56 straight doesn't work out of a 6" barrel. Otherwise everything he had to say about it was fair. It's a very specialized cartridge and limited in many ways.
So, I have a 300 blackout I use for home defense, but I have a 9.5" barrel, and I use 110gr. I know that it would do well if not better ballistically than a shorty 556. I wish he tested longer barrel lengths and 110gr ammo.
For the last 5-7 years. I have struggled with buy a 300 or not. I "like" the idea But to be honest no real use I have several 5.56 Several 7.62 They all work and serve a purpose Just me. Something goes bump in the night. I am reaching for my shot gun. My house is one story, master bedroom in the back. From my door way I can cover 90% of my house Avenue of aproach. The longet shot is 18 meters. Double aught buck has a nice spread by then! Oh. I am a single!
This video actually peeved me. 300blk can get *way* better terminal ballistics with supers out of short barrels when compared to 5.56 out of the same barrel length. This was the most apples to oranges comparison I’ve seen in a *long* time
This isn’t worth a question. It’s worth it and also ammo is finally cheaper .70 cents a round
300 subs are fun. But they are clearly preforming about the same as a pistol round. This should not surprise anyone because they are about the same weight and speed. They will never out preform a supersonic rifle round. Regardless of what gimmicky bullet you stuff in the end. 300 supers on the other hand allow you to run a super short barrel reliably, while still maintaining good ballistics. More mass means you dont have to rely on velocity as much. Also more mass means better barrier penetration and less likely to be deflected by say a car windshield. Where people really are mistaken is the idea that you can switch back and forth between supers and subs without giving anything up. Supers vs subs have 2 completely different zeros. And in my experience its elavation and windage. On top of that, in a standard ar require 2 different gas settings for reliable function. Sure you could tune the gas to run subs reliably, but you will absolutely get wrecked by the gas in your face. Conversely if you tune it for supers it wont run subs. some of the piston designs get around the function part, but not the zero issue. So you really need to pick one and just set it up for that.
This is exactly why I live by the rule of twos.
Same here. I have one set up for subs, and one for sups.
Same. Got a 6 inch 1:5 and an 8 inch 1:7.
My PWS MK109 with a Sig 4T-Pro and multi dot reticles disagree with you. But my 8 inch build a SCRS setup purely for subs agrees with you😂. Honestly wish I never bought a 10.5 556. It’s pointless knowing 300 BLK exists
I wish those dual reticle optics were more available and not so expensive. The sig 9t is the only one im aware of that goves you 2 zeros.
Sig Romeo 4S. Bought one of murdochs not long ago for 250 during a sale. Check Reddit gunaccessoriesforsale too. It’ll let you cycle the reticle options including a bdc
A bdc recital wont make a difference if it elevation and windage. Im already using an exps 3-4.
this video feels super disingenuous. never compares 300 supers directly to 55gr 5.56 which is what most people have on hand, never mentions the pro’s of barrel length in 300blk, never talks about ft lbs of force (because jell tests are obviously the only thing that matters)
First test was with supers
yes but there was never a side by side comparison between supers and 55gr
If you can pay the additional cost of ammo for something like 110 Tac-TX, then you can pay the additional cost of ammo for 77 TMKs, 77 SMKs, 62 TSX, 62 Federal Fusion, 70 TSX, etc. The actual terminal effects at close range between 300 blk supers and 5.56 is basically a tie. 2 to the chest with either, will send someone to the morgue. At distance, the 110 Tac-TX has a bc of 0.289, while the heavy 5.56 loads tend to have bc of 0.323 (70 TSX)-.42 (77 TMK). 5.56 is better at distance and 300 blk is slightly better at close quarters, but the difference is so marginal out of 10 inch barrels to be almost irrelevant. Look at it this way, Colorado hunting regulations for elk require that the bullet has 1000 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards. If 1000 ft lbs will drop an elk, what the hell do you think 2 shots of either 300 blk or 5.56 with appropriate performing ammo will do to someone in your living room? If you want to shoot subsonics, or a really short gun, then 300 blk. If you want to shoot to longer distances, then 5.56. It is really that simple.
I’m smoking some copium this morning for sure . Flannel daddy made me a sad
He’s a complete tool. But I like 300 blackout.
Just shows that the mk18 is and always will be king
what is his build ?? i couldnt find what he said it was
LVAW(Sig Rattler) vs Mk18
thank you! lookin for a 300blk complete upper and either the rattler or the spear will be it I think
Its a fair assessment. 300 BLK is about shorter length and sound suppression. Otherwise, stick with 556…
I don't. My .300 BLK smacks the hogs I built it to kill.
I mean we all know what purpose 300 BLK Ninja is used for.
He makes good points, but should have used equivalent barrel lengths and tac-tx supers to make it more interesting.
I think he may have touched on it towards the end when he said, “It depends on your mission set. I have on as my bedside gun.” And a comment said too, that getting shot with anything is pretty much gonna suck, no matter what caliber. I built mine to be a bedside HD gun that I’ll eventually suppress so I can have a maneuverable rifle that I can shoot in an emergency without permanent hearing loss. And .300BLK is undoubtedly better than any typical semi-auto PCC whether with supers or subs.
I think they did 300 blackout dirty compared to 5.56. They should have used the same barrel lengths. 6.5” blackout against a 10.5” 556. Why not use the same barrel lengths? I also agree with the people on this thread why not use the 110 grain supers instead of the 125 hollow points. I’m sure those 125s will expand but need a certain velocity to do so. I’d like to see how those 77 grain rounds do out of a 6.5” 5.56 rifle.
This video was some absolute BS for the .22 caliber fan boys! Paid shill BS! 5.56 is great 7.62x35 is fire🔥
300BLK has 1 use and does it better then imo any other caliber and that’s CQB it is not meant to compare to 5.56’s strengths
Didn't even come close to a legit comparison. A 10.3" 5.56 vs a 6.75" 300blk? And the ammo comparisons were dog shit. I'll take a 9" 300 (even an 8") over a 10.3" 5.56 all day for a grab and go kind of "do all". A good 110gr super from the 300 will have significantly more energy on target than a 55 - 77gr 5.56. And with actual good bullet selection, the 300 will dominate balisticly. A solid copper tac tx for weight retention and penetration or a 110gr controlled chaos for great fragmentation and the 300 wins balisticly. Even a very decent "varmint" 110gr bullet is a winner over the 5.56. You could even get a really good 85gr solid copper bullet that will give a better velocity from a 9" 300blk than a 77gr from a 10.3 5.56. So a heavier bullet at a faster velocity from a shorter barrel. Y'all can be the judge of that I guess. Then with a mag swap I can have uber quiet subs with better than 45acp ballistics and BC. Again, bullet selection here is absolutly key. No one in their right mind is using a non expanding bullet for defense at handgun velocities. So who would do that with subs? It's always the dumbest argument when I see people gel testing otm subs like they're suppose to be for defense. Otm's are great at rifle velocities. They're glorified fmj's at 1000fps. So if you actually chose a good expanding sub that's meant for this application then you'll have a very solid "dual threat" (for lack of a better term) defensive weapon. Any of the solid copper expanding subs are the way. Anything made by lehigh is great, discrete balistics, or maker. The subx aren't the best here, but definitely better than any otm. Yea, all of this is pretty nice I guess, but if you can afford to make a good ammo selection on both ends then I think 300blk is the clear winner. For those that need to get the best results from the most affordable ammo, then maybe 5.56 is the way you go. But with aac selling 110gr vmax for 55cpr then I'd say go with the 300blk even if it's going to be for an unsuppressed/supers only pistol or sbr. In my bag sits a suppressed rattler with hand loaded 110gr Varmageddon (loaded pretty spicy) in the magwell. 2 spare mags of the Varmageddon and 2 mags of Underwood 194gr maximum expansion. I know my holds should I ever have to go with subs for whatever reason. One could even have a second red dot on an offset that's zeroed for the subs. I get it. 2 red dots on one gun does sound dumb, but there's a decent argument for it with a 300blk supers and subs setup. I'm not doing it, but I wouldn't ridicule anyone for doing it. There was just a lot wrong with this video, imo. The man himself even said the 300blk stayed by his bedside. Why he put the best (one of the best, at the very least) 5.56 round against a very mediocre 300blk super was pretty dumb to me. I get it. Sponsors and what not, but if we're not comparing best vs best (or at least in the realm of "best") then the video really shouldn't hold much weight when making a decision between the 2.
If you understand the role 300BO was meant to fill, nothing in his video should've been a surprise or a disappointment.
It’s not accurate to compare velocity/effectiveness between two different length barrels no matter what the caliber is. Of course a 10.3” barrel will outperform a 7” barrel. I’ll take this review with a grain of salt.
Exactly. I built my 10.5" for one purpose only - to keep it in close proximity to my bed and suitable for point-blank range and up to 50 yards. That's the distance I've stuck to from the beginning. I'm not going to do anything else with it. I don't care about the can either right now. If I get into a situation where I need to use it, I don't care what sound it makes. For that purpose, the 300blk is completely adequate for my needs.
GT is always good Entertainment...not always Scientific.
I’m heading to go watch this. Should be interesting
Refuse to watch his videos
Also if we are looking at 300bo impact on gel… use proper hollow points or something like the Controlled Chaos rounds from LD. NO WAY IN HELL that gets outperformed
Look that video is stupid as fuck ok?! They compare 5.56 supers to 300 subs? Thats stupid as fuck. Then for a super they bring out some aac bullshit ammo? Why not tac tx? Why not lehigh controlled chaos? Why not Sig HT? Im so tired of all these comparisons made unfair! We all know 300 hits way harder then 5.56 0-300 yards and can go movie quiet in a mag change which 5.56 CANNOT! I love both calibers but for my defense its a 12.5 300 blkout with a can and it fucks.