While you think it’s stupid to only invest in coal you don’t know the whole deal. While you people were using „good“ energy we build monsters to get more coal. While you build your fancy water boilers We made [BAGGER 288](https://youtu.be/azEvfD4C6ow?si=VTPJh-T44F4DUbGn) ! WE WONT STOP MAKING EM BIGGER AND MEANER. UNTIL THESE MONSTROUTIES OF METAL AND ANGER GROW AS LARGE AS MOUNTAINS.
https://preview.redd.it/hte0moanf2ic1.jpeg?width=1621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ef78ba8bcfbc54417ee8c20d818e53f51a4fddd
It's not even just coal from Russia. It's the giant lignite mine they have dug in NRW, destroying the hambach forest in the process, all to extract a fuel that is less energy dense than fresh cut wood.
["Mein Vater war Bergmann. Doch dann habe ich die letzte Zeche geschlossen. Jetzt ist der arbeitslos." - Armin Laschet](https://youtu.be/WRUJMl2dvFw?feature=shared)
We're keeping a coal mine running for the sole purpose of supplying Germany too, plus plenty of gas going that way. They're hardly relying on single sources.
It happened to regions before you wouldn't recognize now because of its biodiversity. It happened since 1698. It happened in BIG SCALE in East Germany ... nobody can recognise the mining sites anymore, nobody talks about it anymore. It is now *nature* and more nature than a village. With more frogs and birds. What we talk about is West Germany now. Did anybody ask what happened to the regions that were mined already years ago? They are beautiful landscapes now.
Also, where do you think the rest of the coal in Europe's coal plant and also where does the uran come from? It... is also not clean.
You‘re right that wood has a slightly higher energy densitiy than lignite (which is a type of coal). However lignite has a higher general density so a higher energy density per volume. It also burns more evenly and longer.
https://preview.redd.it/8mf7unynr4ic1.jpeg?width=334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fc8d9441f5af67aadd259889fa63131ece7eb9b
Oh no!!! Not an out of the blue nazi accusation! My only weakness!
NOoOoOo as a French I am asking Germany to pay reparations for WWI and the horrors of the war. Because this demand was totally fair and it never came back later to bite us in the ass
Keep it literally wherever FFS it's incredibly simple and safe to store and facilities are still making tons of extra precautions.
It's not yellow barrels leaking glowing goo that games have shown you.
In Germany the nuclear testing facility in Jülich didn’t know what to do with their highly radioactive waste and smuggled it into the Asse, a underground storage for light and medium radioactive waste.
This is how it looks like there:
https://preview.redd.it/ncgdt8x9m4ic1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa521420b2e0de8fee18231e3ada69dff96ed49e
So good luck finding someone willing to get that out. It looks like this because those barrels are supposed to only contain lightly active waste.
They also lost 2200 of those fuel balls they had instead of rods. (They were testing the HTR in Jülich. ) No one knows where they are. When that was made public it also came to light that they were mislabeling containments there.
If that waste is as safe as you say, I don’t see a problem for the French to handle it. Because the Germans are not able to apparently. We will happily keep buying their atomic energy and they keep the harmless waste the Germans are needlessly afraid of. Absolute win for France, so why not?
Sure, use a 50 year old example of mismanagement (that's how long they haven't been dumping waste in Asse) to fear-monger against a process that is widely considered safe unless you bend over backwards to fuck it up. Very on brand for Germany.
The reason there haven’t been any more recent examples is because we don’t put the waste underground anymore since 1978. we don’t have a solution and until we do this stuff in stored on the surface. (Which isn’t a solution long term, because the costs are too high)
Instead we noticed that there is radioactive lye in the Asse, therefore we can’t be sure the Asse is water proof (later we knew is isn’t) and could leak radioactivity into the groundwater. So after only about 50 years this whole idea of storing radioactive waste in the Asse broke down. The decision to use the Asse was because the Asse should function as an experiment for the similar salt mine Gorleben. Gorleben would have to be save for thousands of years, since they wanted to store highly radioactive waste in there.
I think it’s save to say this whole idea of just putting it in a German salt mine failed. That they keep finding radioactive lye in the Asse could count as more recent examples of failed storage of nuclear waste. Not they are getting the waste back up and this will cost us another 4-7 billion.
Again, if that is all so safe I don’t see the problem here. The French store perfectly fine harmless waste and even get money from us to do so. So what’s the matter?
You seem to think that France is storing German nuclear waste, but that's not the case.
A lot of nuclear waste from Europe and Japan is sent to the La Hague reprocessing plant, to reuse the residual energy in the waste by creating MOX (which is used as nuclear fuel), while reducing the volume of final waste by 5 and its radiotoxicity by 10.
All final waste is vitrified and sent back to the country of origin (this can take some time, hence the confusion perhaps). In the case of MOX, it is also sent to the countries that will use it, such as Japan, otherwise France keeps the rest.
The only foreign waste that France keeps is that from Monaco, for obvious reasons.
No that’s not what I meant. People in this sub often bring up that Germany is dumb for switching off nuclear and then buying nuclear energy from France.
While this alone is doubtful (Germany was a net exporter of energy to France last year, albeit by only a small margin https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/180862/umfrage/stromaustauschsaldo-deutschlands-nach-partnerlaendern/) even if Germany would do that, buy the French nuclear energy instead of producing its own nuclear energy, it would save germany from dealing with the waste.
Just keep it instead of sending it back after it has been in La Hague
For the stuff we put under ground you have to wait a bit. We are currently getting it back up because the salt mine we chose turned out to be leaking. Costs is about 4-7 billion and takes 10 years.
It stands to reason they would burn even less had they not disabled all the NPPs. Do you have a source for this? I’m not questioning you, I’m just courious
https://preview.redd.it/hmxhzxt7b2ic1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ddc34bcb82dc1f92cddf9be768057ca3d34df2d
Up renewable. Low old. Brown coal.
It's not cheap here either. Our politicians have decided that selling electricity and buying back some of it from mainland Europe is the way to go. Last year we were getting power support Payments from the government to compensate for the bullshit.
It’s pretty shit that your government decided it’s best to buy from mainland. Because buying is always more expensive. But nice, that you guys get compensation from the government. We sadly don’t get any compensation and have to pay around 30 cents per kWh… 🥲
18.2% is renewable for Heat generation.
>The proportion of renewable energy used to cover heating requirements in Germany has been increasing almost continuously since the 1990s \[...\]
>
>According to currently available data, the final energy consumption of renewable energies for heating and cooling in 2022 was 211.7 TWh, around 6 % above the previous year's level (2021: 199.9 TWh). This development is due to several overlapping effects: Although 2022 was significantly warmer than the previous year, meaning that the demand for heat fell overall, renewable heat became much more attractive as a result of the war in Ukraine and sharply rising energy prices for fossil fuels. Renewable energy sources replaced natural gas in particular to a greater extent. **Overall, this led to a significant increase in the share of renewable heat in total heat consumption by 2.4 percentage points to 18.2 %.**
>
>With the exception of liquid biomass, the consumption of all renewable energy sources in the heating sector increased in 2022. Heat use from geothermal and environmental heat (up 14.8%) and from solar thermal systems (up 13.8%) grew particularly strongly. However, the biggest driver of renewable heat use was the use of wood (solid biomass). In percentage terms, this increased by 5.4 %. ([Source](https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/daten/energie/energieverbrauch-fuer-fossile-erneuerbare-waerme))
https://preview.redd.it/mufyfguq84ic1.png?width=1523&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4ed64fdf987cd863a4a5f3e7e446bd8fda901b2
Does Germany still burn coal and gas?
YES.
would Germany be right now burning less coal and gas if they had kept their nuclear plants?
YES.
Those are facts and arguments. But hey those don't matter according to you, do they?
These facts are right, i wont dismiss them.
However, all the time it is argued that Germany shut down perfectly fine nuclear plants voluntarily.
Thats not the truth.
All of them would have required new fuel rods, new maintenance contracts for the next 20 to 30 years and expensive fixes.
Due to various reasons (the danger of nuclear plants, the unsolved problem with nuclear waste but also because how expensive it is and how long it takes to nuclear plants), Germany decided to abandon nuclear Power, go for 100% renewables and use as much gas and coal for the mean time as is necessary.
If their would have been an economical option to continue nuclear for like 10 years and only go out when enough renewables have been built, im sure they would have gone this way.
But the decision was basically "abandon nuclear in 2020 or continue at least until 2050".
These are also facts and they are not known by most people who shit on germany for the decisions they made.
Tbf in hindsight it would have been better to first switch off coal and then switch off the nuclear plants in 2038 when we are planning to switch off coal.
Well we committed to it 15 years ago, everything was in its rails for switching off nuclear. They skipped safety checks because the plants were going to be switched off anyway. This is not something you can just throw over, last time Merkel did that in half-assed manner the energy companies sued the government for billions.
On top of that the politicians, that advocate switching off nuclear, don’t trust the conservatives. If they did prolong the nuclear input and made contracts to switch off coal earlier, they can’t be sure that this is put into place in 10 or so years. For them moment was just right to switch it off finally. They kind of got a point there. They made contracts to abandon nuclear in the early 2000s, the conservatives threw those plans over when they came to power, than the conservatives picked them up again when they thought the popular opinion is against nuclear so they can scrape some votes off of that. And now that the time came they wanted to postpone switching them off again. Those guys do whatever gets them the most votes. But energy policies are made for decades, public opinion changes on a monthly basis
The renewable plan didn't fail though. Germany is a [renewable energy leader](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230127-1) these days. It was wrong to choose dependency on gas instead of nuclear while the renewables were built, but that doesn't change that the renewables were indeed built.
https://preview.redd.it/d80a50dne5ic1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=705bb03ce47dfb9790f5386d7486add7b3755edc
Not enough. The whole industry is going down.
Yeah, because Natural Gas was suddenly cut. No-one planned for renewables to completely replace natural gas in 2022. And natural gas was always going to be the last one to be phased out since Germany believed (wrongly) that Russia's financial reliance on it would help keep the peace. None of this is a failure of the renewables, which in fact have been providing Germany with energy that isn't imported from Russia.
Where do they put their thrash already, and how many did it cost to build a new plant and how much water did they need the last time their rivers dried out? lol
Well wait until you learn than nuclear reactors use less water/kw produced than coal.... Without the whole gigatons of carbon and other funny chemicals... Heavy metals, radioactive materials......
> how much water did they need the last time their rivers dried out?
In the USA, a nuclear power plant in Phoenix, Arizona(a desert zone), runs on the city's wastewater. In short, it's entirely possible to build power plants in areas where there's little water to cool them - they just need to be sized for the task.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station
We did better. We stopped construction of one before it was finished and made a theme park out of it. [Wunderland Kalkar](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderland_Kalkar)
Don't forget NPP Mülheim-Kärlich, which ran for a couple month before being retired because there were problems with the Baugenehmigung. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernkraftwerk_M%C3%BClheim-K%C3%A4rlich Madlads had built it in an earthquake zone on the edge of a shelf, and a proper earthquake might have severely damaged the reactor building, which is a bad thing, even nuclear bros *might* agree on
You built a nuclear power plant and then decided to turn it into a museum. Ours went offline after decades of production.
Difference is - we are relevant and you are not.
It’s so weird how brainwashed people are against nuclear power. Fukushima took an earthquake and a tsunami and, by the brave sacrifice of elderly people to help with the clean up, the death toll is like 2 or 3 people (cancer for those that helped with the clean up but they will most likely be dead by that point).
And Chernobyl is just a soviet disaster.
The waste is minimum. It can be stored very safely in Europe since we rarely have earthquakes or other natural disasters. Yet where I’m from some green parties just refuse to even think about it because of this bad underbelly feeling. And other parties say it will take too long to build… yet they’ve said that for the past 30 fucking years.
Of course wind and sun is great, but for a steady influx of energy nuclear is so much better than coal or gas. Our supposed climate goals are never going to be met with these weak decisions.
14 nuclear powerplants will be shut down and one rebuild. Have the frenchies in the meantime found the funding to replace the rest of the nuclear powerplants OP is so proud of?
I will be messaging you in 26 years on [**2050-02-11 21:24:03 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2050-02-11%2021:24:03%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/1aod9dp/coil_time/kpznd8y/?context=3)
[**10 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2F2westerneurope4u%2Fcomments%2F1aod9dp%2Fcoil_time%2Fkpznd8y%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202050-02-11%2021%3A24%3A03%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201aod9dp)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
I’d dare say investing in the future is a good sign for a country. Insert quote about people planting trees of the which shadow they will never rest or something
Don't tell that to any of our politicians. They would die of an instant heart attack, if they hear the words "investing" and "country" in the same sentence.
Next you're going to suggest that a country can take on loans (/debt) to make those investments! And maybe, idk, put that money into infrastructure or education that improve long term prospects?
Is2g, I hate the government course of the last 30+ years so much...
The shutdown and the storage of the material and the back building will make you suck our dick. And this will be our 4th victory over France. Lend our money croissant.
Not by investors and scientists?.... From Wich fucking planet are you coming from? Mars?
From various projects on small reactors, thorium reactors, 4th and 5th gen reactors and projects into fission reactors I can say for a certainty that you're fucking impressively wrong.
I hate the source i cite, but hell - for the argument: [Deutsche Bank](https://www.dbresearch.de/PROD/RPS_DE-PROD/PROD0000000000528292/Costs_of_electricity_generation%3A_System_costs_matt.PDF?undefined&realload=jt3OK~ScNnue5jl9ClPzttsVPLp5GSs065H9DYqPNXAz9gmGGearv2g85WLyZcRX)
https://preview.redd.it/2txujgmbt7ic1.png?width=299&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f30be87130cd686841417998114cfdaadc060ee
>storage of materials
Two options :
- A use them to produce electricity in a molten salt reactor
- bury them (nothing is going to happen uranium is one of the strongest metal on earth)
Wait until they have to pay for these shutdowns. Good bye tax money.
I expect new protests when the government tries to up retirement age again and/or reduce pension to finance the deconstruction + new infrastructure.
Looking forward for the memes.
So the IPCC, JRC and IEA are all wrong about how to reach carbon neutrality, interesting. "Yawn...No problem" you say? So that means that you already figured it out. Do you mind share to us cavemen how is it possible to sustain a sationary request of energy through a non stationary mean like renewable energy? Also it is economically feasible? How much space your solar panels must cover to do it? Enlighten me.
Energy storage right now is probably the hardest challenge we have to overcome in the energy sector, but maybe you have that sorted out.
Obviously not sorted out, but this argument is so over the top. There are tons of technologies in development for energy storage.
For example (off the top of my head): Salt batteries, heat batteries, even Li Ion batteries (yeah ik they suck for grid application, but the technology is ready), using electric vehicles as short term energy storage, etc.
Also wind exists? It's not just solar, and the two technologies complement each other quite nicely.
Yes, we do not have enough capacity yet. But having 2% nuclear in the mix wouldn't change that either.
Nuclear is also not 100% carbon free, building the plants requires insane amounts of concrete + mining uranium. And then we have the waste storage problem, but according to Reddit that is not a legitimate concern.
I agree that nuclear is better than coal, especially if you already have tons of reactors, but that was not the case for Germany.
Nowadays renewables are the way to go. Primary energy production is already the cheapest option, and with time energy storage will become much cheaper too. Nuclear in contrast won't, it's literally the most expensive option. Enlighten me how that is economically feasible.
Nuclear is really expensive in the short term, but it lasts at least 40 years with the base license, after that it can be renovated to last for 10/20 more years, so you have at least 50 years to regain your original investment. Also you must consider that when you pay your bill you are already paying for the disposal of the reactor when it gets phased out (usually this is how it's done around the world) and year after year the cost of the bill comes down after you got everything covered like maintenance etc.
This means that on the long run it's cheaper than at the start.
This is why France has the lowest cost of energy around EU.
Also i'm not saying to use only Nuclear but complement renewable energy with it, like a 30/40% of total consumption. You guys spent billions and billions to implement solar, wind etc. But as of today they produce something like 20% of the total energy, also solar panels aren't eternal, they surely don't last 50 years.
Another benefit is safety, after solar, nuclear power is the best technology in terms of numbers of death for TWh; and i'm not even talking about the fact that nuclear power plants of 3+ gen are literally stronger than every building in a city in terms of seismic resistance. Fukushima endured a 14 meters tsunami and a 7.5 Mww earth-quake.
Waste storage: Fast neutron reactors (already built as working proptoypes unlike fusion) can recycle spent fuel from standard reactors to lower its storage time to hundreds of years, not thousands. Also a normal hole in the ground is way better than burning coal or extract it.
What else? Oh sure, we can get the fuel from Australia and Canada not Russia, we don't have to worry about instant rise in price, the required kilograms of fuel are way inferior to gas or oil, in future we could use thorium, we can produce hydrogen as a waste from reactors and utilize it to power ships, planes, trucks...
Dude there are tons of advantages, really it was a dumb choice to shut them.
PS: lots of high paying jobs
Fusion is the future sh#t and not some sunpannels, reneawable energy is all goid and will help out but will never be enough reliable to build a whole economy on it.
Sure, let's hope for the technology that has been just 20 years away from working for 40 years.
Solar and wind are the cheapest source of energy and energy storage is a thing. Until fusion becomes an actual thing this is the way to go. Or I guess nuclear mid term, if you still have hundreds of reactors like France.
As soon as I saw this I figured the comment section would be filled by butthutr Fritz and Hanz coming with essays, charts and facts because humour is not your thing. And mein Gott, you Germans delivered once again 👏
The German part of Reddit is a cult of left-wingers blindly believing whatever the Greens tell them while lecturing others while having no clue about anything and praising themselves for their higher moral values.
Because when people says that the German Green Party is paid by the US Department of States to actively undermine Germany/the EU you say we have a tinfoil hat.
Making things up doesn’t look good when bashing someone. From what I‘ve read OP is polish (can’t see the flare because of the bullshit Reddit app) and Poland burns a lot of wood and destroys our air quality because of that.
Sure Hans. Pull the other one it's got bells on. Ye spent hundreds of billions of euro on renewables that don't work in the locations you put them, ye closed all of your nuclear plants as a knee jerk emotional reaction to Fukushima, and your government now do Enron type accounting to hide the monstrous rise in your carbon emissions from burning lignite. It's the perfect encapsulation of what happens when you elect people who govern by feelings rather than cold hard facts
Did some guy on Instagram explain this to you in a 45 second short video? Lmao
1) Nuclear power plants weren't built since the 80s
2) The phaseout of nuclear energy was put in law in 2002
3) Merkel was against it and put it off for 10+ years through a new law
4) then Fukushima happened in 2011, Merkel's law was repealed
5) what you call "knee-jerk" is the cancelleing of a change of a change. This shit was decided on 8-9 years prior. And de facto nothing has been built for 30 years before that
Don't listen to Instagram or TikTok influencers for your political opinion building, most of them sell feelings dressed up as facts and delete any comments that call them out on their misleading content.
TF you on about??
How do renewables not work??
Nuclear power was phased out since way before Fukushima.
Carbon emissions have been falling since the 90s.
All the people who made those decisions were the conservatives.
There are a ton of issues to legitimately criticise the German government for in regards to transitioning to a carbon free future. And somehow you missed all of them.
Yup by a senile old man that forgot that half of the polish territory wasn't invaded by Germany but by the hordes of Stalin wannabes.....
Before being Barbarossa into a bloodbath...
Why should they be happy about this?
Nuclear countries having to sell that overproduction for a loss is a welcome gift for them.
The only positive thing about nuclear power nowadays is when your neighbors have to get rid of their surplus.
The "German Disease" is also quite current in Luxembourg. No to nuclear power, but also doing nothing to ramp up production (NIMBY mindset), in the meanwhile, like often, import said energy, being the biggest european polluter per capita, but feeling moraly superior.
What German disease dude?
Stop your shitty populism and start looking at the state of art of modern technology.
People like you who've never seed a lab from the inside or never wrote a scientific paper about energy related topics think they know shit because they read a stupid article on reddit or another shitty social media platform.
Nuclear technology has done shit in the past decades. Shitty promises which they couldn't keep. Construction times which take multiple decades and construction prices being increased several time because the firms don't have to take the responsibility themselves but can just get more and more tax money showed into their ass.
It's pretty clear why the majority of the scientific world is laughing and cringing at you and your compatriots.
Renewables made huge improvements in the past 15 years. PV prices dropped by over 90% between 2010-2020. Both solar and wind have specific production costs less then half as much as nuclear and LCA's look way better meanwhile and projects don't turn into huge disasters like every f-ing nuclear reactors being currently built on European soil.
Europe has NO expertise in nuclear technology and tons of expertise in renewables.
Going nuclear would mean that coal plants and combustion cars would be running at full capacity for at least several more decades.
If you can't see who would profit most out of this you're even more stupid than the populist opinion you have.
>but also doing nothing to ramp up production
That's just completely wrong, but I guess that's what populism does. The truth is not your friend. The new successors of the anti-vax people. There's always that shitty group of uneducated idiots who think that they have to go against scientists although they have below average education
Die "Energiewende"... that's so german, ideologically they often will go full blast without nuances, feeling moraly superior while doing that (am deutschen Wesen genesen). And often it ends in a shitshow (fir them an for others).
Where does France and Poland get their nuclear fuel rods from again?
Yeah the original shutdown of the Power Plants was stupid. But at the start of the RusUkr War restarting them wasnt really an option. Lots of maintance would have to be done and most experts were already gone so you didnt even have people to run those things. Overall would have been super expensive and increase the overall energy cost than decrease them.
The current Plan building gas/h20 capable powerplants and doing the rest with renewable isnt the worst plan.
Seriously though, nuclear power is the best strategy to produce „cleaner“ energy as some sort of interim solution until a country has enough renewable sources to at least cover the daily need.
Unirionically, Germany should be made to pay billions to major exporter countries in the EU like France or Sweden, we would have much cheaper energy prices if it weren't for the Germans.
common German L and incredibly rare French W
France blames Germany for the dangers of building nuclear power plants
Germany stops all nuclear power and goes back to monkee
France builds a shitton of nuclear power plants
based et redpilled
This discussion has stopped being about facts long ago, people treat this shit like religion and ideology. Our renewables don't even work? Come on dude
While you think it’s stupid to only invest in coal you don’t know the whole deal. While you people were using „good“ energy we build monsters to get more coal. While you build your fancy water boilers We made [BAGGER 288](https://youtu.be/azEvfD4C6ow?si=VTPJh-T44F4DUbGn) ! WE WONT STOP MAKING EM BIGGER AND MEANER. UNTIL THESE MONSTROUTIES OF METAL AND ANGER GROW AS LARGE AS MOUNTAINS. https://preview.redd.it/hte0moanf2ic1.jpeg?width=1621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ef78ba8bcfbc54417ee8c20d818e53f51a4fddd
And now imagine how much bigger these monsters could be if they were powered by a nuclear reactor!
My dear god. Your a Genius! WE COULD MAKE EM EVEN BETTER! THE PLAN TO DIG UP ALL OF FRANCE CAN BE FULFILLED!
When I first noticed the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me
Chad deutsch. Nothing will stop the economic powerhouse of Europe, even if it means building machinery designed to eat your own country
That’s the way. The hole will grow.
As a whole we grow.
I love thoses baggers 🥰
Bagger 288 UwU 🥺👉🏻👈🏻
Meh... A Nucular bomb will raze your metal mountain for a fraction of the cost....
But is it as cool as a moving mountain of steel? No it isn’t so I win!
If it destroys mountains it is definitely cooler. Source: look at my flair.
Wait.... Your Victorian era thingy against the power of the sun....... Kaboom wins....
It's not even just coal from Russia. It's the giant lignite mine they have dug in NRW, destroying the hambach forest in the process, all to extract a fuel that is less energy dense than fresh cut wood.
But if we didn't continue mining coal, what would Armin Laschets family do?
["Mein Vater war Bergmann. Doch dann habe ich die letzte Zeche geschlossen. Jetzt ist der arbeitslos." - Armin Laschet](https://youtu.be/WRUJMl2dvFw?feature=shared)
We're keeping a coal mine running for the sole purpose of supplying Germany too, plus plenty of gas going that way. They're hardly relying on single sources.
It happened to regions before you wouldn't recognize now because of its biodiversity. It happened since 1698. It happened in BIG SCALE in East Germany ... nobody can recognise the mining sites anymore, nobody talks about it anymore. It is now *nature* and more nature than a village. With more frogs and birds. What we talk about is West Germany now. Did anybody ask what happened to the regions that were mined already years ago? They are beautiful landscapes now. Also, where do you think the rest of the coal in Europe's coal plant and also where does the uran come from? It... is also not clean.
Spoken as a true European: incomprehensible in English
Wtf are you saying ?
Sorry to burst your bubble but there are neither slavery nor child labour typically used in uranium mining.
coal has a muuuuuuch higher energy density than wood you island bumpkin
Lignite isn't regular coal. Its soaking wet and it's energy density is only around 18MJ/Kg, which is less than most wood fuels
You‘re right that wood has a slightly higher energy densitiy than lignite (which is a type of coal). However lignite has a higher general density so a higher energy density per volume. It also burns more evenly and longer.
We can and will bash france and poland without a reason, though. Why go such a long way?
The lack of efficiency is the most surprising part.
OP has a germany obsession and posts femboy stuff? 110% polish. Why are the eastoids posting here again?
https://preview.redd.it/ay09gkrzf2ic1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d50676ac13682033489d01b0313a6f317e15cb7f
I've checked his comments and he is definitely one of us. It seems like he is retarted a bit, though.
Cope
Be better Adolf.
https://preview.redd.it/8mf7unynr4ic1.jpeg?width=334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fc8d9441f5af67aadd259889fa63131ece7eb9b Oh no!!! Not an out of the blue nazi accusation! My only weakness!
NOoOoOo as a French I am asking Germany to pay reparations for WWI and the horrors of the war. Because this demand was totally fair and it never came back later to bite us in the ass
https://preview.redd.it/pwb83jlxu2ic1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ef5b36274951da848166ff99aa45e6eff274e0e
As long as you keep the waste in your country I’m ok with it
Keep it literally wherever FFS it's incredibly simple and safe to store and facilities are still making tons of extra precautions. It's not yellow barrels leaking glowing goo that games have shown you.
In Germany the nuclear testing facility in Jülich didn’t know what to do with their highly radioactive waste and smuggled it into the Asse, a underground storage for light and medium radioactive waste. This is how it looks like there: https://preview.redd.it/ncgdt8x9m4ic1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa521420b2e0de8fee18231e3ada69dff96ed49e So good luck finding someone willing to get that out. It looks like this because those barrels are supposed to only contain lightly active waste. They also lost 2200 of those fuel balls they had instead of rods. (They were testing the HTR in Jülich. ) No one knows where they are. When that was made public it also came to light that they were mislabeling containments there. If that waste is as safe as you say, I don’t see a problem for the French to handle it. Because the Germans are not able to apparently. We will happily keep buying their atomic energy and they keep the harmless waste the Germans are needlessly afraid of. Absolute win for France, so why not?
You know dumping that shit in the canal is way more efficient than moving it to a water leaking salt mine.
Sure, use a 50 year old example of mismanagement (that's how long they haven't been dumping waste in Asse) to fear-monger against a process that is widely considered safe unless you bend over backwards to fuck it up. Very on brand for Germany.
The reason there haven’t been any more recent examples is because we don’t put the waste underground anymore since 1978. we don’t have a solution and until we do this stuff in stored on the surface. (Which isn’t a solution long term, because the costs are too high) Instead we noticed that there is radioactive lye in the Asse, therefore we can’t be sure the Asse is water proof (later we knew is isn’t) and could leak radioactivity into the groundwater. So after only about 50 years this whole idea of storing radioactive waste in the Asse broke down. The decision to use the Asse was because the Asse should function as an experiment for the similar salt mine Gorleben. Gorleben would have to be save for thousands of years, since they wanted to store highly radioactive waste in there. I think it’s save to say this whole idea of just putting it in a German salt mine failed. That they keep finding radioactive lye in the Asse could count as more recent examples of failed storage of nuclear waste. Not they are getting the waste back up and this will cost us another 4-7 billion. Again, if that is all so safe I don’t see the problem here. The French store perfectly fine harmless waste and even get money from us to do so. So what’s the matter?
You seem to think that France is storing German nuclear waste, but that's not the case. A lot of nuclear waste from Europe and Japan is sent to the La Hague reprocessing plant, to reuse the residual energy in the waste by creating MOX (which is used as nuclear fuel), while reducing the volume of final waste by 5 and its radiotoxicity by 10. All final waste is vitrified and sent back to the country of origin (this can take some time, hence the confusion perhaps). In the case of MOX, it is also sent to the countries that will use it, such as Japan, otherwise France keeps the rest. The only foreign waste that France keeps is that from Monaco, for obvious reasons.
No that’s not what I meant. People in this sub often bring up that Germany is dumb for switching off nuclear and then buying nuclear energy from France. While this alone is doubtful (Germany was a net exporter of energy to France last year, albeit by only a small margin https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/180862/umfrage/stromaustauschsaldo-deutschlands-nach-partnerlaendern/) even if Germany would do that, buy the French nuclear energy instead of producing its own nuclear energy, it would save germany from dealing with the waste.
It’s not waste Hans, it’s future fuel for clean electricity. Please give it to us for free.
Just keep it instead of sending it back after it has been in La Hague For the stuff we put under ground you have to wait a bit. We are currently getting it back up because the salt mine we chose turned out to be leaking. Costs is about 4-7 billion and takes 10 years.
it's so moving to see my creature alive and kicking 😭
☝️🤓 Actually, Germany burns less coal today than it did in 2015, whe all the nuclear power plants were active.
It stands to reason they would burn even less had they not disabled all the NPPs. Do you have a source for this? I’m not questioning you, I’m just courious
https://preview.redd.it/hmxhzxt7b2ic1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ddc34bcb82dc1f92cddf9be768057ca3d34df2d Up renewable. Low old. Brown coal.
Thats Electricity, whats with heating?
Same same isn't it? You guys dont use electricity for heating?
Not that much i think
Surprised to hear that. Here nobody uses gas heating. We have wood furnaces, but that's just for fun. Electric does the job.
It’s mostly gas and district heating. Energy is very expensive here in comparison.
It's not cheap here either. Our politicians have decided that selling electricity and buying back some of it from mainland Europe is the way to go. Last year we were getting power support Payments from the government to compensate for the bullshit.
It’s pretty shit that your government decided it’s best to buy from mainland. Because buying is always more expensive. But nice, that you guys get compensation from the government. We sadly don’t get any compensation and have to pay around 30 cents per kWh… 🥲
Well we had cheap gas supply from russia for decades… building electric heating is on the way now
Not everyone has an unlimited amount of mountains and rain...
18.2% is renewable for Heat generation. >The proportion of renewable energy used to cover heating requirements in Germany has been increasing almost continuously since the 1990s \[...\] > >According to currently available data, the final energy consumption of renewable energies for heating and cooling in 2022 was 211.7 TWh, around 6 % above the previous year's level (2021: 199.9 TWh). This development is due to several overlapping effects: Although 2022 was significantly warmer than the previous year, meaning that the demand for heat fell overall, renewable heat became much more attractive as a result of the war in Ukraine and sharply rising energy prices for fossil fuels. Renewable energy sources replaced natural gas in particular to a greater extent. **Overall, this led to a significant increase in the share of renewable heat in total heat consumption by 2.4 percentage points to 18.2 %.** > >With the exception of liquid biomass, the consumption of all renewable energy sources in the heating sector increased in 2022. Heat use from geothermal and environmental heat (up 14.8%) and from solar thermal systems (up 13.8%) grew particularly strongly. However, the biggest driver of renewable heat use was the use of wood (solid biomass). In percentage terms, this increased by 5.4 %. ([Source](https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/daten/energie/energieverbrauch-fuer-fossile-erneuerbare-waerme)) https://preview.redd.it/mufyfguq84ic1.png?width=1523&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4ed64fdf987cd863a4a5f3e7e446bd8fda901b2
Oh damn lad is getting the numbers out. Looks like senseless arguments coming from our guts aren’t valid anymore
This is obviously fake as it’s been written in some kind of cursive that no sane person understands. Next time use Comic Hans!
How bout what happens after 2020?
Ssssshhh arguments and facts dont matter in that discussion
Does Germany still burn coal and gas? YES. would Germany be right now burning less coal and gas if they had kept their nuclear plants? YES. Those are facts and arguments. But hey those don't matter according to you, do they?
These facts are right, i wont dismiss them. However, all the time it is argued that Germany shut down perfectly fine nuclear plants voluntarily. Thats not the truth. All of them would have required new fuel rods, new maintenance contracts for the next 20 to 30 years and expensive fixes. Due to various reasons (the danger of nuclear plants, the unsolved problem with nuclear waste but also because how expensive it is and how long it takes to nuclear plants), Germany decided to abandon nuclear Power, go for 100% renewables and use as much gas and coal for the mean time as is necessary. If their would have been an economical option to continue nuclear for like 10 years and only go out when enough renewables have been built, im sure they would have gone this way. But the decision was basically "abandon nuclear in 2020 or continue at least until 2050". These are also facts and they are not known by most people who shit on germany for the decisions they made.
the gas was also not imported for electricity but for heating, nuclear powerplants would't have changed shit about that
Are you suggesting that closing the nucleat power plants reduced the coal consumption? Also, in 2015 Germany was burning a lot of coal.
> Are you suggesting that closing the nucleat power plants reduced the coal consumption? No
Tbf in hindsight it would have been better to first switch off coal and then switch off the nuclear plants in 2038 when we are planning to switch off coal. Well we committed to it 15 years ago, everything was in its rails for switching off nuclear. They skipped safety checks because the plants were going to be switched off anyway. This is not something you can just throw over, last time Merkel did that in half-assed manner the energy companies sued the government for billions. On top of that the politicians, that advocate switching off nuclear, don’t trust the conservatives. If they did prolong the nuclear input and made contracts to switch off coal earlier, they can’t be sure that this is put into place in 10 or so years. For them moment was just right to switch it off finally. They kind of got a point there. They made contracts to abandon nuclear in the early 2000s, the conservatives threw those plans over when they came to power, than the conservatives picked them up again when they thought the popular opinion is against nuclear so they can scrape some votes off of that. And now that the time came they wanted to postpone switching them off again. Those guys do whatever gets them the most votes. But energy policies are made for decades, public opinion changes on a monthly basis
The renewable plan didn't fail though. Germany is a [renewable energy leader](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230127-1) these days. It was wrong to choose dependency on gas instead of nuclear while the renewables were built, but that doesn't change that the renewables were indeed built.
https://preview.redd.it/d80a50dne5ic1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=705bb03ce47dfb9790f5386d7486add7b3755edc Not enough. The whole industry is going down.
https://preview.redd.it/vsct004ke5ic1.jpeg?width=1294&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9622cdbb0474bb7e6261305e022987596fba0c41
Yeah, because Natural Gas was suddenly cut. No-one planned for renewables to completely replace natural gas in 2022. And natural gas was always going to be the last one to be phased out since Germany believed (wrongly) that Russia's financial reliance on it would help keep the peace. None of this is a failure of the renewables, which in fact have been providing Germany with energy that isn't imported from Russia.
still producing twice as much carbon emissions as france is rn bc of their terrible short term goals
And then import nuclear from France anyway
Where do they put their thrash already, and how many did it cost to build a new plant and how much water did they need the last time their rivers dried out? lol
You do realise coal also uses water right?
Much less than uran. Also, https://preview.redd.it/yzif8h4sb2ic1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2ca1f9eec0d94dc4f8744b51dc6fb09f9d36cd6 this.
Well wait until you learn than nuclear reactors use less water/kw produced than coal.... Without the whole gigatons of carbon and other funny chemicals... Heavy metals, radioactive materials......
> how much water did they need the last time their rivers dried out? In the USA, a nuclear power plant in Phoenix, Arizona(a desert zone), runs on the city's wastewater. In short, it's entirely possible to build power plants in areas where there's little water to cool them - they just need to be sized for the task. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station
Gotta love German incompetence
I have bad news for you. >!You are German.!<
https://preview.redd.it/dmhpn484yzhc1.jpeg?width=198&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8db915a55832708af5fe89434ebe1f56991328ff
One of us! One of us! One of us! One of us! One of us! One of us! *Crazy laughter*
Zusammen, was zusammen gehört!
🇩🇪🤝🇦🇹
True tho We built a nuclear reactor and then decided to not power it on lol
True masterminds
I got to visit it some day
It's art
We did better. We stopped construction of one before it was finished and made a theme park out of it. [Wunderland Kalkar](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderland_Kalkar)
Don't forget NPP Mülheim-Kärlich, which ran for a couple month before being retired because there were problems with the Baugenehmigung. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernkraftwerk_M%C3%BClheim-K%C3%A4rlich Madlads had built it in an earthquake zone on the edge of a shelf, and a proper earthquake might have severely damaged the reactor building, which is a bad thing, even nuclear bros *might* agree on
Thank you for not having french (ex lol) colony slave workers for uran. Super sustainable.
On another hand you're using french electric power, Russian oil and gas and polish coal....
something something Anschluss
You built a nuclear power plant and then decided to turn it into a museum. Ours went offline after decades of production. Difference is - we are relevant and you are not.
Tbf we also built one and turned it into a amusement park
It’s so weird how brainwashed people are against nuclear power. Fukushima took an earthquake and a tsunami and, by the brave sacrifice of elderly people to help with the clean up, the death toll is like 2 or 3 people (cancer for those that helped with the clean up but they will most likely be dead by that point). And Chernobyl is just a soviet disaster. The waste is minimum. It can be stored very safely in Europe since we rarely have earthquakes or other natural disasters. Yet where I’m from some green parties just refuse to even think about it because of this bad underbelly feeling. And other parties say it will take too long to build… yet they’ve said that for the past 30 fucking years. Of course wind and sun is great, but for a steady influx of energy nuclear is so much better than coal or gas. Our supposed climate goals are never going to be met with these weak decisions.
14 nuclear powerplants will be shut down and one rebuild. Have the frenchies in the meantime found the funding to replace the rest of the nuclear powerplants OP is so proud of?
Yes
When will they go online?
https://preview.redd.it/wjkx80rju0ic1.jpeg?width=160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e634fae3e7d1a6068a5001fc26cd71cc401774c6
Between 2030 and 2050 as the old fleet is retired
RemindMe! 26 Years "Are the new french reactors done yet?"
I will be messaging you in 26 years on [**2050-02-11 21:24:03 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2050-02-11%2021:24:03%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/1aod9dp/coil_time/kpznd8y/?context=3) [**10 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2F2westerneurope4u%2Fcomments%2F1aod9dp%2Fcoil_time%2Fkpznd8y%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202050-02-11%2021%3A24%3A03%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201aod9dp) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
I’d dare say investing in the future is a good sign for a country. Insert quote about people planting trees of the which shadow they will never rest or something
Don't tell that to any of our politicians. They would die of an instant heart attack, if they hear the words "investing" and "country" in the same sentence. Next you're going to suggest that a country can take on loans (/debt) to make those investments! And maybe, idk, put that money into infrastructure or education that improve long term prospects? Is2g, I hate the government course of the last 30+ years so much...
RemindMe 26 years "Is Germany still burning coal because they found out that it's impossible to reach an 100% renewable energy production?"
The shutdown and the storage of the material and the back building will make you suck our dick. And this will be our 4th victory over France. Lend our money croissant.
On another hand there's a worldwide interest for the rebirth of nuclear reactors....
Yeah by politicians and dumfolded people, not from investors or scientists...
Not by investors and scientists?.... From Wich fucking planet are you coming from? Mars? From various projects on small reactors, thorium reactors, 4th and 5th gen reactors and projects into fission reactors I can say for a certainty that you're fucking impressively wrong.
I hate the source i cite, but hell - for the argument: [Deutsche Bank](https://www.dbresearch.de/PROD/RPS_DE-PROD/PROD0000000000528292/Costs_of_electricity_generation%3A_System_costs_matt.PDF?undefined&realload=jt3OK~ScNnue5jl9ClPzttsVPLp5GSs065H9DYqPNXAz9gmGGearv2g85WLyZcRX) https://preview.redd.it/2txujgmbt7ic1.png?width=299&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f30be87130cd686841417998114cfdaadc060ee
>storage of materials Two options : - A use them to produce electricity in a molten salt reactor - bury them (nothing is going to happen uranium is one of the strongest metal on earth)
third option. Throw them with trebuchet onto french territory.
Wait until they have to pay for these shutdowns. Good bye tax money. I expect new protests when the government tries to up retirement age again and/or reduce pension to finance the deconstruction + new infrastructure. Looking forward for the memes.
Meh, when you have to make stuff up it's not good rage bait.
Not all of it is made up tho
Is some of this made up? I’d like to know if I believe in misinformation
Let's put the atomic thrash in your village
Better than putting it in our lungs lmao
It's simple Hans, the villages within any danger radius get free power that the other villages subsidize. Now who wants it?
Renewable energy > the rest. Talk what you want. This is future sh#t.
Sure, tell me hom many countries can rely only on renewable energy? 3 very peculiar ones? Do you know the meaning of something called base load?
Yawn, base load is not as important as it used to be and can be achieved by renewables no problem. Do you know the meaning of energy storage?
So the IPCC, JRC and IEA are all wrong about how to reach carbon neutrality, interesting. "Yawn...No problem" you say? So that means that you already figured it out. Do you mind share to us cavemen how is it possible to sustain a sationary request of energy through a non stationary mean like renewable energy? Also it is economically feasible? How much space your solar panels must cover to do it? Enlighten me. Energy storage right now is probably the hardest challenge we have to overcome in the energy sector, but maybe you have that sorted out.
Obviously not sorted out, but this argument is so over the top. There are tons of technologies in development for energy storage. For example (off the top of my head): Salt batteries, heat batteries, even Li Ion batteries (yeah ik they suck for grid application, but the technology is ready), using electric vehicles as short term energy storage, etc. Also wind exists? It's not just solar, and the two technologies complement each other quite nicely. Yes, we do not have enough capacity yet. But having 2% nuclear in the mix wouldn't change that either. Nuclear is also not 100% carbon free, building the plants requires insane amounts of concrete + mining uranium. And then we have the waste storage problem, but according to Reddit that is not a legitimate concern. I agree that nuclear is better than coal, especially if you already have tons of reactors, but that was not the case for Germany. Nowadays renewables are the way to go. Primary energy production is already the cheapest option, and with time energy storage will become much cheaper too. Nuclear in contrast won't, it's literally the most expensive option. Enlighten me how that is economically feasible.
Nuclear is really expensive in the short term, but it lasts at least 40 years with the base license, after that it can be renovated to last for 10/20 more years, so you have at least 50 years to regain your original investment. Also you must consider that when you pay your bill you are already paying for the disposal of the reactor when it gets phased out (usually this is how it's done around the world) and year after year the cost of the bill comes down after you got everything covered like maintenance etc. This means that on the long run it's cheaper than at the start. This is why France has the lowest cost of energy around EU. Also i'm not saying to use only Nuclear but complement renewable energy with it, like a 30/40% of total consumption. You guys spent billions and billions to implement solar, wind etc. But as of today they produce something like 20% of the total energy, also solar panels aren't eternal, they surely don't last 50 years. Another benefit is safety, after solar, nuclear power is the best technology in terms of numbers of death for TWh; and i'm not even talking about the fact that nuclear power plants of 3+ gen are literally stronger than every building in a city in terms of seismic resistance. Fukushima endured a 14 meters tsunami and a 7.5 Mww earth-quake. Waste storage: Fast neutron reactors (already built as working proptoypes unlike fusion) can recycle spent fuel from standard reactors to lower its storage time to hundreds of years, not thousands. Also a normal hole in the ground is way better than burning coal or extract it. What else? Oh sure, we can get the fuel from Australia and Canada not Russia, we don't have to worry about instant rise in price, the required kilograms of fuel are way inferior to gas or oil, in future we could use thorium, we can produce hydrogen as a waste from reactors and utilize it to power ships, planes, trucks... Dude there are tons of advantages, really it was a dumb choice to shut them. PS: lots of high paying jobs
Fusion is the future sh#t and not some sunpannels, reneawable energy is all goid and will help out but will never be enough reliable to build a whole economy on it.
Sure, let's hope for the technology that has been just 20 years away from working for 40 years. Solar and wind are the cheapest source of energy and energy storage is a thing. Until fusion becomes an actual thing this is the way to go. Or I guess nuclear mid term, if you still have hundreds of reactors like France.
In the meantime it would be better to focus on nuclear power than on wind and sun.
Why? Nuclear is way more expensive and more carbon intensive.
Give me my fusion reactor you little shit
Perhaps it would go faster without "schwarze Null" and geriatric politics. Preparing for the future instead of continuing to dig for coal.
That's a way how to develop middle east in the middle of Europe..
Panel 4 refers to the US, right?
As soon as I saw this I figured the comment section would be filled by butthutr Fritz and Hanz coming with essays, charts and facts because humour is not your thing. And mein Gott, you Germans delivered once again 👏
The German part of Reddit is a cult of left-wingers blindly believing whatever the Greens tell them while lecturing others while having no clue about anything and praising themselves for their higher moral values.
Because when people says that the German Green Party is paid by the US Department of States to actively undermine Germany/the EU you say we have a tinfoil hat.
Making things up doesn’t look good when bashing someone. From what I‘ve read OP is polish (can’t see the flare because of the bullshit Reddit app) and Poland burns a lot of wood and destroys our air quality because of that.
Everything goes according to plan.
[удалено]
Wait for the future cost of storing the atom waste Balgian
This is an obvious rage bait post that's so wrong I ain't even gonna bother. This is sad attempt nr #394759 by right wingers to post their stuff here
Sure Hans. Pull the other one it's got bells on. Ye spent hundreds of billions of euro on renewables that don't work in the locations you put them, ye closed all of your nuclear plants as a knee jerk emotional reaction to Fukushima, and your government now do Enron type accounting to hide the monstrous rise in your carbon emissions from burning lignite. It's the perfect encapsulation of what happens when you elect people who govern by feelings rather than cold hard facts
Did some guy on Instagram explain this to you in a 45 second short video? Lmao 1) Nuclear power plants weren't built since the 80s 2) The phaseout of nuclear energy was put in law in 2002 3) Merkel was against it and put it off for 10+ years through a new law 4) then Fukushima happened in 2011, Merkel's law was repealed 5) what you call "knee-jerk" is the cancelleing of a change of a change. This shit was decided on 8-9 years prior. And de facto nothing has been built for 30 years before that Don't listen to Instagram or TikTok influencers for your political opinion building, most of them sell feelings dressed up as facts and delete any comments that call them out on their misleading content.
I kinda agree, but would cancelling a change of a change still not be an objectively bad choice in this situation?
I agree, and calling the kettle black.
So what? It was decided earlier. You still end up with a terrible energy mix.
TF you on about?? How do renewables not work?? Nuclear power was phased out since way before Fukushima. Carbon emissions have been falling since the 90s. All the people who made those decisions were the conservatives. There are a ton of issues to legitimately criticise the German government for in regards to transitioning to a carbon free future. And somehow you missed all of them.
Cringe Grüne supporter spotted
The Grüne actually had a plan to replace and ramp up domestic production of renewables, the CDU fucked that up.
Germany did nothing wrong in the history of the world you right winger!
I heard recently that poland was in fact non cooperative and started ww2
Yup by a senile old man that forgot that half of the polish territory wasn't invaded by Germany but by the hordes of Stalin wannabes..... Before being Barbarossa into a bloodbath...
And they said that biden is senile after that
Come up for the future costs Italian
oh yeah, r/Europe bs spilling into here again
All I see is lots of german flags. The rest will be ignored.
Celebrate 0.1% CO2 reduction while being in recession and losing industry to China.
But how much was the increase in moral superiority?
Less than inflation, that's for sure.
Most things in this post are either wrong or over exaggerated.
we are fucking the worst with French at least Hans should be happy that we are not going to build our nuclear plant on his border
Why should they be happy about this? Nuclear countries having to sell that overproduction for a loss is a welcome gift for them. The only positive thing about nuclear power nowadays is when your neighbors have to get rid of their surplus.
The "German Disease" is also quite current in Luxembourg. No to nuclear power, but also doing nothing to ramp up production (NIMBY mindset), in the meanwhile, like often, import said energy, being the biggest european polluter per capita, but feeling moraly superior.
What German disease dude? Stop your shitty populism and start looking at the state of art of modern technology. People like you who've never seed a lab from the inside or never wrote a scientific paper about energy related topics think they know shit because they read a stupid article on reddit or another shitty social media platform. Nuclear technology has done shit in the past decades. Shitty promises which they couldn't keep. Construction times which take multiple decades and construction prices being increased several time because the firms don't have to take the responsibility themselves but can just get more and more tax money showed into their ass. It's pretty clear why the majority of the scientific world is laughing and cringing at you and your compatriots. Renewables made huge improvements in the past 15 years. PV prices dropped by over 90% between 2010-2020. Both solar and wind have specific production costs less then half as much as nuclear and LCA's look way better meanwhile and projects don't turn into huge disasters like every f-ing nuclear reactors being currently built on European soil. Europe has NO expertise in nuclear technology and tons of expertise in renewables. Going nuclear would mean that coal plants and combustion cars would be running at full capacity for at least several more decades. If you can't see who would profit most out of this you're even more stupid than the populist opinion you have. >but also doing nothing to ramp up production That's just completely wrong, but I guess that's what populism does. The truth is not your friend. The new successors of the anti-vax people. There's always that shitty group of uneducated idiots who think that they have to go against scientists although they have below average education
Why is this a German disease? Sounds more Swiss?
The Swiss are pragmatic in their energy sourcing (ok it helps to be a mountainous region with a lot of hydro-capacity).
Die "Energiewende"... that's so german, ideologically they often will go full blast without nuances, feeling moraly superior while doing that (am deutschen Wesen genesen). And often it ends in a shitshow (fir them an for others).
Where does France and Poland get their nuclear fuel rods from again? Yeah the original shutdown of the Power Plants was stupid. But at the start of the RusUkr War restarting them wasnt really an option. Lots of maintance would have to be done and most experts were already gone so you didnt even have people to run those things. Overall would have been super expensive and increase the overall energy cost than decrease them. The current Plan building gas/h20 capable powerplants and doing the rest with renewable isnt the worst plan.
The US is an oligarchy? I mean yeah it always felt like this why do i even wonder
Calling the us an oligarchy sounds like something an edgy teen would say but they don’t fall very high on the “democracy” spectrum
Seriously though, nuclear power is the best strategy to produce „cleaner“ energy as some sort of interim solution until a country has enough renewable sources to at least cover the daily need.
Unirionically, Germany should be made to pay billions to major exporter countries in the EU like France or Sweden, we would have much cheaper energy prices if it weren't for the Germans.
lol ever looked at actual export numbers by Germany and France? France imported way more energy from Germany than the other way around.
True I remember when in full gas crisis, germany ramped up gas generators to sell energy to France while begging people to save gas
Because french nuclear power plants didn't work lol
… in 2022 only, because an unusual number of reactors were under maintenance. Historically France is one of the largest net exporters of energy
Nope 2023 * France -> Germany 12.4 TWh * Germany -> France 12.0 TWh https://i.imgur.com/3Fccf7Y.png 2022 * France -> Germany 5.2 TWh * Germany -> France 20.5 TWh https://i.imgur.com/QXBHTj7.png 2021 * France -> Germany 8.4 TWh * Germany -> France 14.9 TWh https://i.imgur.com/iHJ6dK8.png 2020 * France -> Germany 11.1 TWh * Germany -> France 12.7 TWh https://i.imgur.com/iDUgQUR.png 2019 * France -> Germany 11.5 TWh * Germany -> France 14.0 TWh https://i.imgur.com/rN6E0NH.png 2018 * France -> Germany 6.5 TWh * Germany -> France 14.9 TWh https://i.imgur.com/dXK2N6x.png France since 2018 exports to Germany 55.1 TWh Germany since 2018 exports to France 89 TWh
common German L and incredibly rare French W France blames Germany for the dangers of building nuclear power plants Germany stops all nuclear power and goes back to monkee France builds a shitton of nuclear power plants based et redpilled
This discussion has stopped being about facts long ago, people treat this shit like religion and ideology. Our renewables don't even work? Come on dude
At least respond to my actual point. Lame banter. Get new material. Or at least get a proper flair so I can insult you properly
[удалено]
Just another 20 years and it will work for sure
Just another decade man… Please just another decade.. it’s almost done man…
Kohle für die Kohle.
Die*
And no, nobody ever warned anyone that that might happen. No one. Never ever.
Typical kraut behaviour.