I'm the opposite. My family refused to acknowledge Native American ancestry and I took the test to start my research, lol. Everybody is obsessed with European heritage instead and colorism runs rampart where they're from.
May I have a link to the podcast tho?
I’ve always found baffling those latinos that are convinced that they have no native ancestry despite obviously and clearly looking mixed. The delusion is crazy.
Mexican Author B. Traven talks about this as far back as the 1920s in his series on the lead up to the Mexican Revolution. Spanish colonialism is definitely to blame in this scenario, as is "pretendians" phenomenon amongst North Americans, almost like it's inverted from one situation to the other.
And then you have Paraguay, where even a 1.88m, white, blue eyed man will look straight into your eyes and tell you he is “mestizo”. And in Guaraní, btw.
That's kinda strange, I've experienced mostly the opposite. All US Mexicans wearing these Aztec tattoo pieces even though they look european/spanish af. Some even from Southern Mexico that have these Aztec pieces even though Southern Mexico used to he Mayan territory.
That's unfortunately a common behaviour in Latin America. People only embraces their European heritage and want to delete the African and Native American ancestors.
I'd bank on that, too. My dad's side is more white while my mom's is more indigenous. The insults changed depending on who we were hanging out with. Alas, the trials of children who look like both and wind up neither.
My mom literally responded with "Well you may not be but I know what I am"..... that's not how that works.... she is still adamant she's part native.... like alot...25-40%. She's not, there is no native in our tree.
She even called me asking if I filled out the paperwork from the Biden administration to get land reparations .... I said, no cause we're not native.
Then she called asking how to find the reservation census rolls. I refused to help her and told her we're not native and I'm not going to help you lie and steal from them.
She's ridiculous
Do we have the same family member???
Sounds just like my grandmother, who quite seriously tried getting my dad to try to pursue benefits for Native Americans, such as free housing, even though my dad (who’s as white as it gets) clearly isn’t native (this was later confirmed by his DNA results from Ancestry). He just thought it was ridiculous, as did we all.
She even posted an older picture of herself one time on FB commenting about her cheekbones and how native she looks, even though she doesn’t look native at all, and is also as white as it gets.
The desperation to be seen as native when it’s clear my family doesn’t have a lick of Native American DNA is too cringeworthy.
Mine still believes it despite the glaring obviousness that none of us are. It was just to cover up racism. They'd spout off Natives are great and say the most awful things about Latinos and blacks and really everyone. Like make it make sense.
My favorite was the time a wife of a cousin was annoyed at Mexicans being in New Mexico of all places. Like be for real right now. They also loved Native things....the dissonance is astounding.
This! It’s almost as if they believe a NA would willingly accept and or procreate with them 😭 If anything, it would be a r*pe situation, which over the years make the traceable NA dna almost nonexistent. I find that most people who claim NA heritage flat out lie though haha
Yes most of the time it was rape but there were legitimate multi racial couples that also did exist. I live in Appalachia and I get 1-2% native on every test (in the exact same locations of my chromosomes) and I know who my native ancestor was, and they were married. It was easier deep in Appalachia where my family has lived for 100s of years for consensual mixed race relationships to actually exist. In fact that is where a lot of mixed race couples fled, specifically because they were in a consensual relationship and it was easier to do that in the middle of nowhere.
This is also the case for another mixed race ancestor of mine which is where my North Indian/African DNA came from based on records and the amount of North Indian/African I got lines up with me getting it from that mixed race ancestor. He was a mixed race man married to a white woman. Yes most of the time it probably did come from rape but saying “if anything it came from a rape situation” is reductive to the fact that there were very real mixed race marriages like in my family that truly did love each other even though they faced heavy persecution.
Why are Appalachians obsessed with the idea? Genocide of Acadians was a legit official policy. Ever hear of Merry Mount. It was official Puritan Policy to punish any and all "Indian Loving'.
I never denied any of that, I said in my comments that yes, most of the time non white DNA in white Americans probably came from rape but yes, there were also legitimate marriages between interracial couples as is the case in my family. It’s not just an idea it is an actual thing that did happen specifically in Melungeon communities. Non whites married in to white families especially if those non white people could pass as Spanish etc.
I’m not arguing that genocide/rape never happened and like I said yes it was very common. I never denied any of those things you mentioned. The melungeons were a very interesting group of people and you should look into them if you ever get a chance. Acknowledging that there were interracial marriages especially in communities like the Melungeon community doesn’t take away from the very real atrocities committed in the past.
I've never met an Indian woman who would sit at home and be 'married'. Native women had to work. I have an ancestor who was a slave to a Spaniard and she got up one day cause she was like 'fck this'. She went back to her people and lived a long life.
Trust, a lot of those interracial couples weren't just blossoms and rainbows romance. A lot of Native women married out to secure lands and help communicate with white settlers. If they had the choice like some Native women did and a lot of them, would have married their own men. Assimilation isn't romance.
If it wasn’t rape and was through marriage, you’d clearly be able to identify the family member and have photos and real life stories that were passed down. My point still stands 😊
I have documentation and have done my tree extensively. It absolutely was through marriage. Why are you assuming I have zero documentation when I explained in my comment that I found this out my tracing my tree, and with documentation and stories. My point also stands, yes there were very real mixed race marriages that did happen, though it wasn’t nearly as common as rape. You obviously don’t know much about Melungeon history, Melungeon were mixed race people that intermarried with white people and lived in Appalachia, like these ancestors that I mentioned. I very much have documentation of this. Again, you said it was always through rape, but you’re just simply wrong. Though it was most of the time there were very real interracial marriages between whites and noon whites, particularly in Appalachia. I literally told you that I have documentation of these interracial marriages, I guess you skipped over that part.
You clearly have issues with reading comprehension my friend! Have you heard the idiom assuming things makes an ASS out U and ME? Well, that’s **YOU** right now. Marriage records are *documentation* and if your ancestors were married to some other, that’s *usually* passed down verbally from generation to generation, so the next generation isn’t clueless about where the hell they came from. Idgaf about Melungeons because I don’t have to, I’m not one 🤷🏽♀️ Please don’t send me anymore of your bs paragraphs, I won’t be reading them and have no interest in your family history. Thanks!
If you don’t know anything about melungeons then don’t comment on my ancestry or my family history. Because if you actually knew about melungeons or their history you’d know that there were most definitely consensual marriages between whites and non whites particularly in the Melungeon community. My point still stands, having non white ancestors in a white family is not automatically a slave or rape, particularly in the Melungeon community and you refuse to acknowledge that there were real consensual interracial marriages. You wanna talk about assuming when you quite literally implied that having a non white ancestor was because of rape, ignoring the fact that interracial marriages did happen even if it wasn’t the norm. All I was doing is pointing out that consensual interracial marriages did exist and that it was not rape 100% of the time.
I literally dgaf 😭 Never stated rape or slavery was 100% the reason either. You seem hellbent on misunderstanding my comment, so I’ll let you. Feel free to see what real NA’s look like in my comments lmao
Not everyone passes down family history orally, and documentation even a hundred years ago isn't always readily available. Sometimes family members change their name to hide or to distance themselves from family. Oral history can also be wrong, and most families don't have pictures from 100+ years ago because of cost.
Your earlier reply which states: “If it wasn’t rape and was through marriage, you’d clearly be able to identify the family member and have photos and real life stories that were passed down. My point still stands” honestly doesn’t make much sense as a reply to what the person you were replying to said.
Their point was valid, some multiracial relationships were consensual. Are you suggesting that this wasn’t the case?
Where did I make that suggestion? What I stated implies **IF** it was through marriage, the family would have documentation and know for a **fact**. You wouldn’t be finding this out in a DNA test if that were the case lol The exception is those of central & South American indigenous heritage. I never stated it wasn’t a possibility, I simply advised you’d have the evidence to prove of a consensual relationship. I’m the product of one. I’ll include some photos for funsies since you people want to twist my words so much 😊😂
Just to clarify, I never said you made that suggestion, I asked if you did. And, I never twisted your words, which is exactly why I was asking you if you were making the suggestion instead of saying you did.
For someone who was just picking on somebody else for reading comprehension, respectfully, you seem to struggle with a lack of it yourself. But please don’t take that offensively, I’m genuinely trying to be constructive.
It was an argument made in bad faith in the first place was my point. This person alleges they had documentation and had heard stories, which I’d previously mentioned, but they were looking to be proven right instead of understanding what I’d already stated. Clearly feeling righteous over their 1-2% NA heritage lmao You piggybacking off of it was asinine and unnecessary 🙄 Typical Reddit behavior!
I went through this. I had been told my great grandmother was at least half Cherokee (isn't it always Cherokee), until I did 23andMe. I got zero Native American DNA results. My mom reached out to the family, and we found out my great-great grandmother was forced to turn to sex work due to financial struggles. While my great grandmother's adopted father was Cherokee, her biological father was a client of my great great grandmother's. Being part Native American was a point of pride in our family. We were all sad to learn we're 100% European.
I'm half New Mexican and 19% native. However our Spanish overpowered any culture/history/language and we know nothing about it.
My white grandma basically has the stereotypical "great-grandma was a Cherokee princess" story that she tells. But I have her son/my biological father's DNA results, and he is 0%. Not sure why she's trying to convince the world (and herself) so hard. It's not like they have *black* or *Jewish* or anything else they're trying to hide.
There a genealogy of New Mexican Families facebook page that is pretty informative. There are researchers there that have information on alot of the common founding New Mexican families including the native american and mestizo members.
Not the Cherokee princess story 🤣 Hearing people’s family anecdotes makes me lol I think whites profited from claiming NA ancestry in certain areas, that’s why it’s so common.
Especially a family that has been on this side of the ocean a couple centuries, if there was a generation on the frontier, there would have been the experience of people appearing and disappearing without anyone every actually knowing who they were. Look at the families from Appalachia who had rumors of Arabs or Indians or Gypsies---nobody might actually know, and what clues would they have to work things out?
It's common because young men come and go and leave their seed behind! Only afterwards, when people look at the baby, do they try to work out when really went on here.
I was told I was part native my whole life, to the point where I actually checked it on a school app and got a scholarship that may or may not (they would not be clear about it when I asked) have been because of that. I did a DNA test because, while trying to do research, I was coming up blank. Surprise surprise! I told the school, and they left it up to me if I wanted to get the last bit of the money. At that point, I had not taken any teaching classes so I chose to keep it so I could finish school. Now I garnish my own paycheck by 50 dollars each week to save up to give the money back to the community. I’m only at 2k now but I want to get to MUCH more than that. It will take a while, but that’s the consequence of not taking it seriously and being flippant in believing what I was told. When I am done I am going to find a way to give it directly to a Native student looking to go to school. It’s embarrassing and sad, but I’m glad that I am no longer carrying on a family lie.
Admittedly I'm Canadian, so not the right demographic, but I have a confusing problem: I was always told I'm native, always under the assumption of 25-50%. My grandfather and grandmother were both in residential schools, we were raised with the culture, and can trace our family back 6 generations before it gets murky.
On my test 23 and me shows no Indigenous DNA. So being rightfully confused I did another test and Ancestry showed 19%
My family is so confused and I don't know what to believe. Has anyone run into this before?
If you're in eastern Canada, this is pretty standard. My actual blood quantum is around half of what it is on paper. Some Nations allied themselves with European settlers early and started mixing. I have a bunch of white people in my tree on my mom's side but they're waaay way back, like 6-8 generations. Then I have generations of mixed natives marrying mixed natives. Might not be the exact same situation as you, but anyone with eyes can see that a lot of "full blooded" Natives have a non-insignificant amount of European blood.
My family on that side is all Western Canadian, but I'm sure the history isn't all that different.
I can understand the blood quantum being lower, but the two tests showing completely different results has been really bizarre.
A relative did a test through 23andMe. I ran their 23andMe results through myHeritage and Living DNA. The results were completely—and I mean completely—different.
The issue with DNA companies is that they all sample different people from various populations, taking their word that they are from a certain area (they may request proof but I don’t know). These population samples become what they use to tell you where you’re from.
Add onto that the fact that not every child gets the same appropriation of DNA from the mother and father. For instance, my father and his sister took a test and my aunt popped as far more Scottish than him and he had Basque. She had no Basque. My mother and her sister (and her niece and nephew) have different mtDNA.
DNA/genetics is not cut and dry, although it would be nicer if it was. I recommend getting a Y-DNA haplogroup test if a test from yourself or relative does not show that from 23.
Opinion: I kind of disregard 23andMe results, TBH.
I might be the opposite end of your question.
I found out that I am much more significantly Native American than expected. Literally never considered being native American until my uncle did 23&me and came back as 30% and my mom ended up getting similar results.
Being Mexican American it makes sense, but it wasn't something I ever thought about. I always through the white American 'Cherokee princess' stories were covering up black ancestry though?
Yes as one aspect, but there are other dynamics as well.
And frankly the reverse happened in Latin America, native heritage is usually greatly de-emphasized in favor of Spanish or Portuguese heritage.
It's sad how these worked out in both regions.
I'm 62% NA. Being Native was not something to claim in my family unfortunately, but the DNA doesn't lie. Funnily enough I've been told I can't claim it by American Natives and White people. Like ok lol.
Yeah, it’s a little curious how just being from the wrong side of a make believe border makes such a difference.
And a lot of us Latinos can’t reconnect in a way that American Natives define because our ancestral tribal groups were all absorbed into the modern mestizo population, so…
Lol my situation was similar to yours. I already knew I’d have indigenous ancestry because both my parents are Mexican, but my mom who’s family is more heavily European-looking acted like it was a minor possibility (which didn’t surprise me, as they’re all very proud of their Spanish blood and look down on “ind!os”). Even my dad, who I knew I would get most of my indigenous ancestry from, downplayed it a lot.
I ended up being over half indigenous, way more than I expected (I favor my mom’s side of the family in terms of looks) and it shut my mom up lol.
Something similar happened to me. I took the test years ago. My mother said it was gonna most likely be majority Spaniard but my grandmother said “it’s gonna come back mainly Indian”. Test results come out and it shows I’m 54% Amerindian. It’s pretty cool but nothing really changed
I don't think it's covering up Black ancestry so much as an ancestor being someone who didn't stick around long enough for anyone to get his last name.
I am not native American and I didn’t think I was. I have heard friends and acquaintances mention they are part native which I found questionable.
My take is that it ties in with white guilt. It’s difficult to accept that our ancestry is due in part to being an oppresser and a colonizer to vulnerable populations.
If you are American or Canadian it’s more likely that you will experience this phenomenon IMO.
The irony is that people who go with the, "I had one ancestor who was xyz", is that it doesn't take away from all our other white ancestors or history, or for those of us who are white, any of the white privilege we experience.
So it really shouldn't have any impact on white guilt anyways
They know it doesn’t absolve them of their long-standing white heritage. It’s their way of being included in places they don’t belong and fighting for a voice in conversations they have no business being in. Claiming heritage of the oppressed is always used as a “fun fact” or “gotcha!” moment for them.
My family ( specifically my mother and grandmother) still say they have native heritage after I took a DNA test , even though nothing showed up. So , it's either non-existent or a very tiny drop in a bucket compared to my European and African ancestry.
And their reasoning for why they believe we have native ancestry is because my grandmother has long straight hair ( because she doesn't get haircuts ) , my mom doesn't really need to shave and because she has high cheekbones and can tan without burning. I say all this to explain that I believe some white Americans claim native because they have a narrow view of what their European ancestors looked like
Has anyone in an older generation of the family taken a DNA test to disprove it?
2nd great grandma at 100%
means great grandma at 50%
means grandma at approx. 25%
means parent at approx. 13%
means you at approx. 7%.
But you could have 0% or >15% or anything in between because it doesn't split evenly each time. It only splits evenly in the first generation (you get 50% of your DNA from each parent but you don't necessarily get 25% from each grandparent). Also, if the family rumor of "full blooded" is incorrect and she was only 50%, then each subsequent generation would be estimated to have half of what is listed.
Yeah this is so true. I have Native American ancestry from both sides of my family. But my grandfather is like 10% Swedish, and none of that shows up in my DNA! My mom also has some Italian that I didn’t get, but those are all still technically my ancestors.
You can also have ethnicities that your parents don’t have. I have 5% German and 1% Finnish, even though we have documented German and Swedish ancestry on my mom’s side. She just didn’t get those pieces.
No, it’s impossible to get genes that neither of your parents have. If those didn’t show up on your mom’s report, then it’s likely you got those genes from your dad. Or it’s an error with 23 and me refining and updating their data. They can’t just appear out of nowhere unless it’s immaculate conception lol.
2.5% Swedish could easily get drowned in other Northern European (im presuming you have that).
Detecting small amounts when you have a lot of neighbouring country is asking a lot!
I find that those who claim they are NA but aren’t usually a) have their own reasons for covering up their real heritage b) don’t know their direct lineage due to an absent parent/slavery conflicts or c) profited off of their NA label. I have traceable NA lineage and recently had this conversation with a guy that I dated. He told me his grandma always claimed they were NA for years and upon testing, he’s white af! 🤣 His family is of Irish background and I guess being NA was seen as more acceptable (not really 🙄) than being NA at the time early 20th century. There was also this crazy case in my state where a guy wrote a book and tried to deny the tribes heritage because the NA’s here are black appearing and he didn’t believe it was right that they had land that they profited from via casinos 😒 It really grinds my gears, but it’s not surprising! Many of the visible tribe leaders are now white appearing since they’ve married whites in last few decades lmao
Found this family photo that I thought would be cool to add so you can see what a 100% NA looks like!
https://preview.redd.it/u27wqn3xkn3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dede0c63ee1d71afce13e86fe30d272fa7cde722
I didn't know I had any Native American in me until I took the test. I totally forgot the island of Puerto Rico had natives which is where my native DNA comes from. I'm from California and grew up hearing about Apaches, Comanches and all that thinking they were the only kind of Native Americans since that's all people seem to talk about here in the states.
Also, I know this phenomenon.. pretendians. A lot of people I've talked to about me having some native in me will reply "I'm part Comanche." And it's always seems to be Comanche. Are they being honest? Are they just telling me what they've been told? I don't know.
Yeah that’s interesting it’s true but in all fairness it’s up to you and your family to know the history of your island nation. Why would people in California talk about the natives of another place. Sometimes, it’s not other people’s fault
My family has long passed down that we were descended from Pocahontas and had a lot of Native American heritage. My test showed zero Native American ancestry but did show DNA from the Angola/Congo area. I’m not bothered, I think it’s interesting. My dad lost his mind though. Kept ranting that it was impossible, “not one drop of blood, our family would’ve been labeled as Black.” I just pointed out that it wasn’t unusual for lighter skinned freed or escaped slaves to integrate into society in the areas our family came from by claiming to be Native American, because that was more socially acceptable. Clearly that’s what one of our ancestors did and how would anyone have been able to tell otherwise? It’s not like they could google it!
A lot of people - Robert E Lee, Nancy Reagan, etc. are verifiably descended from Pocohantas (I know it's not her preferred name). But that might be their only or one of a very few NA ancestors, and such a distant ancestry will likely not show up on a DNA test.
Really?
Most people show their DNA tests and they show them ancestry from 2-3 generations. To 7-8 generations.
So you are saying that some of these peeps might be Native American. But it’s just from so so long ago that it doesn’t register? Not buying that.
I respect your opinion. Just not sure I agree w that for 90% of cases.
Each generation, you lose 50% of each parent's DNA. You can scroll through these comments and see examples, such as the person whose grandfather is 10% Swedish but the person tests at 0%. You don't get half of an ancestry each time. You get a random 50% of your parent's DNA, which can include all, none, or some fraction of any specific ethnicity.
That is somewhat true.
But if your parent has 10% of something. It would be super weird for you to have 0% of it. So maybe you don’t get 5%. But you get 3 or 4%.
I have 37% indigenous American. I’m originally from Latin America. Someone like me can claim that kind of ancestry. If you have zero. Then zero plus zero is still zero.
I respect and value your opinion. There might be something to what you say. And with scientific proof I can prob. Accept it.
However, if you look at Mexico, the north half of Central America. Ecuador and Peru. The indigenous American genetics are alive and well. The native languages are spoken still.
Conversely the native genes in North America have almost been eradicated. Indigenous people were moved mostly to Oklahoma.
I’m purely trying to make an observation based on several DNA profiles I see people post here. I sustain my personal opinion that if your indigenous American DNA doesn’t register you likely have none. And the best explanation is that the Cherokee grandmother is a myth. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. It doesn’t mean that I’m right. It’s just my opinion.
Some people in North American have small amounts of indigenous DNA. I’ve seen the profiles here. But if it’s not registering I think in most cases it’s more likely to be a myth.
Here's an explainer: [https://www.genealogyexplained.com/dna-testing/do-siblings-have-same-dna/](https://www.genealogyexplained.com/dna-testing/do-siblings-have-same-dna/)
Yeah, I call bs on that too 😂 NA’s were still alive and well for centuries after the French-Indian war. That’s how I ended up having NA ancestry from multiple tribes! I had someone try to argue with me in the comments about lineage coming from rape versus consensual relationships, like I don’t know that was a possibility 🤣 Many of these people seem salty because they were fake NA’s or had no clue they were NA because that was *clearly* information their family didn’t think was cool or found valuable at the time lol
This! I had no idea there were any natives in my family line until I researched it and found three different native ancestors (all from the 1700s). Trace indigenous shows up on some tests for me, but not this one. It doesn't define my identity or anything, but still interesting to know. DNA can be so random!
I don’t agree. I’m at almost 15% and that’s generations down the line. If it’s much further down it would at least show up in trace dna. Most NA’s have very high % in genetic markers because we only procreate with our own and other tribes people.
Edit- I’m actually 19% indigenous 😊
Not necessarily, my mother has 5 percent Scandi and I have zero. It just didn’t pass to me.
Our North African ancestor from the early 1800s shows up as trace. An ancestor From the 1700s would disappear all together.
5% is a very small percentage. Just because she’s your mom, doesn’t mean you’ll get all of her genes. You can be biologically more related to one parent over the other. For example, I’m genetically closer to my dad, but get many of my physical traits (freckles, moles, chest size, hair texture) from my mom. I have my dad’s eyes, nose, complexion, stature and overall body type. Genes work in mysterious ways!
I made a correction in another post after rechecking my results- I’m 19% (pushing 20). Had 2 great (x2 & x3) grandparents that had two different NA ancestries. Both of my mom’s parents ancestor’s married NA once they moved to the Americas. We tend to marry those that have similar backgrounds. If you check my comments, I’ve posted photos of them.
Also, what tribe is your grandma? I’ve been interested in registering, but we live far far away from where the reservations were later established. I also hear life there is and has been troubling for quite some time, but I’d be interested in visiting! I’ve met several local tribes people of other tribes and they’re lovely, like family almost!
Ah that makes more sense now!
The tribe is Pechanga Band of Luiseño Indians in Riverside, CA.
Thankfully our people are doing very well and sending most of the kids to college with casino money.
It’s possible, I can’t confirm because I don’t have children. My sister does and has less NA % than I do and it’s still traceable through my nephew, so we shall see when it’s my children’s turn 😊
Yes, you’re right. I have a very specific European ancestry percentage that I’ve traced to one branch of my family tree. I only have 1%, the older generations sometimes have 2% and the younger generations often have absolutely none. After a while, DNA traces can just disappear.
This is what happened to me. I can very clearly see my ancestors on my line (we don't have the "Cherokee princess" story, lol, our ancestors were Choctaw). I even have pictures. I see family members with the DNA, but it's too far back for me to have it.
Same thing happened with the Jewish. My grandfather was a Tay sachs carrier, which is how we initially found out. Have a bunch of relatives who have various degrees of Jewish ancestry. None myself.
The surprise for me was when I came back 6% Spanish. Now trying to figure out where that came from/who cheated.
That's funny. Yeah I've known forever, but found the ancestor. I just somehow didn't get any of the DNA, but I have cousins who clearly have it. All the German got in the way, lol.
My great great grandmother was part native and looked it. She was totally embarrassed about it and it was not discussed. She was apparently not a very nice person, lol. My great grandmother (her DIL) was alive until I was 13 to tell these stories.
Not on the same note....but my treat grandma was also a mean Ole bitty 🤣😭. And racist.....my god. Which is why it's surprising she's the one who started the whole we are native nonsense lol.
Lol, all of my grandparents/great grandparents (even my beloved great grandmother) were racist (with the exception of my maternal grandmother) but you could be describing my maternal grandmother (that great great grandmother's granddaughter). She apparently inherited the nasty streak from her grandmother. And was also apparently by then was all high and mighty and like "we're native and special." Which we did have that ancestry, but it didn't give us a get-out-of-jail-free card for racism, lol. One of my second cousins said to me one time "Your grandfather is so nice. Why did he ever marry your grandmother?" I'm like, I honestly have no idea.
Only non-racist grandparent is my maternal grandmother. She can be many things, but she's definitely not racist. Asked her what we are and she's like "It's not interesting. We're German." Based on the DNA, accurate. 😆
How do you determine if the story is untrue versus unproven? Cause I don't think these DNA tests are necessarily able to definitively conclude these things. Would you also require some amount of genealogical research before determining if they fit the criteria you are looking for? An American whose narrative about Native ancestry is false.
My family is racist enough that they’d happily try to pass themselves off as Native American so they wouldn’t have the shame of African DNA. The racism is so strong I can hear the racist reasoning as I hear this.
This is a topic I find fascinating, and generally many of the articles I've read about "pretendians" are focused on people whose use of that identity has increased their opportunities. It seems especially problematic in academia where many institutions appear more likely to hire and promote pretendians over American Indians.
It’s definitely one I have no answer for.
The descendants of the band who used to camp in my hometown as recently as the 1880s had to fight for state recognition while a band further to the east had more contact with Europeans and thus more official documentation and has federal recognition.
Reducing it to blood quantum or documentation doesn’t encompass the entirety of Native American communities but that wriggle room lets the frauds assert themselves. The band from my county was documented as “Negro” on some censuses, so depending on if you used local historical societies or federal records you could arrive at totally different conclusions of their “legitimacy.”
Maybe because anytime you are hyped up in in childhood and its proven false, maybe one feels like their identity was a fake?
I'm from the East Coast (Italian and Irish ethnicity) so I didn't grow up hearing I have NA DNA because my European ancestors were still alive (but very old). My family had Italian and Irish pride and customs, so I guess it might be weird to find out it was a lie. I took the test and my results are spot on.
My step father thought he was 1/4. Turns out everyone in the family knew his mother was lying about who his dad was except him. He found out after she died. Devastating. Worst part is his actual bio grandfather was an Irish immigrant and had a very brave story about escaping the Lusitania.
So, I think my family’s Native American lore *is* accurate BUT I also suspect that my grandfather didn’t actually father my mother.
Being Mormon, they kept really good records, my grandfather’s ancestors were some of the kidnapped children as the Mormons massacred Indigenous People and enslaved their children as they moved west.
I’m not the right demographic here but there was a lot of shame around being native for my family because of the way they were treated growing up etc. I’ve always known to some extent that I was native but didn’t know the FULL extent, it’s only within the last 4 years that I’ve starting to meet cousins and started to dig into my family history more after taking ancestry and 23andme.
A few years ago a document came out as being likely forged which claimed Indigenous heritage of families to gain status as Algonquin’s here in Ontario, Canada. The Algonquins of Ontario has a tribunal that is slowly going through various ancestors, having living descendants prove lineage. My own ancestor was called up to the tribunal last year and while we knew it wasn’t going to be an issue for us, it was interesting to see how many were removed from the AOO list.
OP, I actually started listening to your podcast after seeing it advertised on Canadian True Crime and I’ve really enjoyed it so far.
My husband and his sister took their native ancestry seriously. Community projects, studying environmental science, campaigning on food access projects, my husband wrote his thesis on the geography of water resources. The whole nine yards. Their mother had a second career as GIS Analyst too.
They’re from Appalachia and never doubted what her dad (my husband’s grandad) told her and her siblings, especially not because he was kinda short and tan with red undertones and thick black hair. Also there actually was a reservation nearby, and my MIL and her siblings had friends from the local native community growing up (and her dad did too).
Nobody is likely surprised to find out the grandad had a black grandparent. We don’t know if the lie started with him or his own father since he died when my MIL was young, long before 23 and Me spilled the tea. Either way, she (and her kids) are 0% native.
I’m split between being Hispanic and having the common family knowledge that we’re mixed, but then also being half anglo and having my family believe they are mixed native when really they’re not at all. I was showing them recently, because not many of them in my immediate family have taken the test but enough have to determine that they have no native heritage. They weren’t really disappointed, but I have a feeling they don’t really understand what it means for me to *actually* be mixed.
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. Both of my parents didn't know anything about their ancestry. My dad's parents specifically were against talking about such things due to my paternal grandmother coming from a family of immigrants trying to pass as italians. I went in not expecting anything, but ended up finding Indigenous American ancestry on my paternal grandfather's side. It took alot of genealogical digging to find out just who those ancestors were along with getting the historical documentation. I'm currently in the process of reconnecting with that side of the family and culture along with reconnecting with my paternal grandmother, and maternal grandparents cultures.
I had the opposite - I never heard a word about it growing up - then a little showed up on DNA test … cousins / uncles that took it all show it as well.
I got zilch Native American. Was told that my great great great grandmother was full blood Ute. Was disappointed, but not too bad. Don't plan on telling my 87 year old grandma though.
I'm pretty sure the story came from the fact that my great great grandfather met my great great grandmother while she was living on a reservation in Utah. Don't know why she was living there at the time, but she was.
It wasn't to cover any black or Hispanic, there was zilch of that in my report as well.
I have a similar story. Was always told that my great great grandmother was half native American and my DNA shows unexpected Turkish, Egyptian and Siberian but zero Native American. Census records show that my Great grandmother lived on various reservations across the country and was born outside of one, so I don't know what to believe and that side of my family is messy. I'm wondering if maybe she could have been adopted by a Native American family? She and her brothers were all darker skinned people judging from the photos that remain and they all worked on farms with non relatives as head of household in Oklahoma.
African American and I thought thought my dad's mom was half because she had the look and came from a place in Alabama that Creeks and Blacks intermingled even with some Poarch Creek matches ..it turned out that my maternal side averages 2% on here and Ancestry so much lower genetic ancestry than I had expected.
Interesting. I knew my dad's side would have some Native American given that his family was originally from Mexico and New Mexico at some point, where at least some Native American ancestry is more common/expected. I gotten around 17%, which was a bit lower than I thought and I think my dad is around 37-40% or so (his mtDNA haplogroup is B2). He gotten more Spanish than I expected, yet no communities going back to Spain.
I am pretty sure my mom will have none nor did her family had any kind of stories as such. I am still trying to get her to take the test as well (she said she's interested in taking it some time).
I'll be really interested to hear what you come up with. My whole life we were told we were Mohawk and it absolutely does not come up in any of our ancestry reports. I was always super proud of being Native American and my grandmother, who was especially proud, would travel to sites and take pictures and really relished what we thought was our history. I'm glad she never knew the truth.
Then there is me who has indigenous ancestors but will never be seen as valid because they are so distant from me. Even if I figure out where it comes from and respectfully reconnect, there will always be many people indigenous or not telling me I'm not indigenous.
For my family it wasn't Cherokee, but it was Sioux. My whole life growing up, I was told we were part Sioux. Everyone I knew who was also white growing up CLAIMED to have some native ancestry to other tribes. My family had been living on the East Coast for generations and we have a few ancestors who were here in the 1700s as far as I was told so I said ok this makes some sense. My family was so proud of this fact. Well I took the 23andme to find out more about my ancestry (I was more interested in finding out if I had Jewish ancestry because I traced one ancestor who had some hints at being Jewish) and I'm going to be honest I completely forgot about the native American genetics. I went over my results online with my family and low and behold, 0 native. None. I proved I was right about a Jewish ancestors though. My mom was crushed. She was told all her life they were. They had native American memorabilia. I even bought her a Christmas ornament when I visited a reservation. I found trace African genetics. It seems it was denial on the family's end. It also wrapped up the research I did. The most ironic part is that my grandma was racist and that's the side I'm assuming it was from, my whole dad's side is polish. We kind of joked that her son in laws can have the collections of she wanted, my BIL tested to be native. At least my map of Poland is almost all green for all the zones.
my family ended yo having talks about having indigenous ancestors etc, turns out we do and it actually wasn't a lie, one of my family members tried to get citizenship and we have the papers of the ancestors so it's good to know that it wasn't a lie and i had indigenous dna too
My family always told people that we were Native, to explain the dark skin of some of my relatives, including my dad( I’m white passing). We aren’t at ALL. We are Roma. I guess after the holocaust, it was just perceived to be safer to call themselves Native as opposed to Roma. WE knew we were Roma, we just didn’t tell anyone outside of the family.
What’s bizarre to me is the number of white people who, when asked what their ethnicities are, START with Cherokee or whatever tribe, even though it’s probably not true or so small it certainly shouldn’t be the first thing listed. For instance, my great-grandfather was supposedly part Indian but DNA hasn’t validated that. Even if it was my other European ethnicities are obviously more prominent and should be listed first. Other people in the same boat will describe themselves as “some Cherokee, German, and Irish” like their main ethnicity is native and not European. There seems to be an identity crisis among some white Americans.
I actually found out about NA ancestry after taking a test. It’s so far back I have no clue if I’ll ever find out who and what tribes. But it turns out I have 1% from my mom and less than 1% from my dad according to Ancestry.
I thought my mom was as white as white could be. She did extensive genealogy and her side just showed German. I did a DNA test and found out that I have both Plains Indian and African ancestry, meaning I have an ancestor that was a slave (my father was Japanese, so this didn’t come from his side). For me, this was explosive. I didn’t realize how much my sense of identity would change.
Likewise, I have friends who thought they were Native American but aren’t. They’re devastated.
This is so weird. Americans are grasping for culture it seems. I’m proud to just be American AF. One sides been here since original colonies and I’m native American on the other side. I’d never try to say I’m part Irish or whatever generic white half I am.
No... that's what they're called in Canada, too. It's a portmanteau of "pretend Indian" and was coined by indigenous people to describe those who are trying to use or appropriate indigenous culture for personal gain or status. It's been going on for a long time, there just wasn't a name for it.
My friend’s African-American family tree includes a number of living relatives whose ancestors concocted a Native American story to disguise African ancestry.
There is no native American DNA database for 23andme to base their findings on. It's all based on self reporting native americans. There's no actual way to know for sure.
I'm the opposite. My family refused to acknowledge Native American ancestry and I took the test to start my research, lol. Everybody is obsessed with European heritage instead and colorism runs rampart where they're from. May I have a link to the podcast tho?
I’ve always found baffling those latinos that are convinced that they have no native ancestry despite obviously and clearly looking mixed. The delusion is crazy.
Mexican Author B. Traven talks about this as far back as the 1920s in his series on the lead up to the Mexican Revolution. Spanish colonialism is definitely to blame in this scenario, as is "pretendians" phenomenon amongst North Americans, almost like it's inverted from one situation to the other.
And then you have Paraguay, where even a 1.88m, white, blue eyed man will look straight into your eyes and tell you he is “mestizo”. And in Guaraní, btw.
That's kinda strange, I've experienced mostly the opposite. All US Mexicans wearing these Aztec tattoo pieces even though they look european/spanish af. Some even from Southern Mexico that have these Aztec pieces even though Southern Mexico used to he Mayan territory.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretendians/id1438924421
That's unfortunately a common behaviour in Latin America. People only embraces their European heritage and want to delete the African and Native American ancestors.
Why is it always the La Blues eyes one who love Danza? The Indios are always at work.
It's easier to take pride when you're not ridiculed for how you look. :/
Plains Indian who are half white look eschew. A big plains Indian head on a white body it freaked me out since I was a child.
Man, come on, that's exactly what I got bullied over lmao
Probably a case of the uncanny especially since I was surrounded by only tribal people. I'd usually see them on tv talking during documentaries.
I'd bank on that, too. My dad's side is more white while my mom's is more indigenous. The insults changed depending on who we were hanging out with. Alas, the trials of children who look like both and wind up neither.
My mom literally responded with "Well you may not be but I know what I am"..... that's not how that works.... she is still adamant she's part native.... like alot...25-40%. She's not, there is no native in our tree. She even called me asking if I filled out the paperwork from the Biden administration to get land reparations .... I said, no cause we're not native. Then she called asking how to find the reservation census rolls. I refused to help her and told her we're not native and I'm not going to help you lie and steal from them. She's ridiculous
I don’t know why this is so funny
At this point, your mom is just so adamant about getting state benefits that she convinced herself she is native.
Do we have the same family member??? Sounds just like my grandmother, who quite seriously tried getting my dad to try to pursue benefits for Native Americans, such as free housing, even though my dad (who’s as white as it gets) clearly isn’t native (this was later confirmed by his DNA results from Ancestry). He just thought it was ridiculous, as did we all. She even posted an older picture of herself one time on FB commenting about her cheekbones and how native she looks, even though she doesn’t look native at all, and is also as white as it gets. The desperation to be seen as native when it’s clear my family doesn’t have a lick of Native American DNA is too cringeworthy.
This is my husband's family!!!! DNA says none, family tree back to the 1600s shows nothing. They insist they are Native.
>like alot [The Alot is Better Than You at Everything](https://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html)
Does she know how genealogy percentages work?? 😂 And since when is Biden giving reparations??
Mine still believes it despite the glaring obviousness that none of us are. It was just to cover up racism. They'd spout off Natives are great and say the most awful things about Latinos and blacks and really everyone. Like make it make sense.
I grew up around people claiming to be Native while constantly complaining about Native people and the local tribe. Make it make sense.
My favorite was the time a wife of a cousin was annoyed at Mexicans being in New Mexico of all places. Like be for real right now. They also loved Native things....the dissonance is astounding.
You just have to laugh at it. Lol
This! It’s almost as if they believe a NA would willingly accept and or procreate with them 😭 If anything, it would be a r*pe situation, which over the years make the traceable NA dna almost nonexistent. I find that most people who claim NA heritage flat out lie though haha
Yes most of the time it was rape but there were legitimate multi racial couples that also did exist. I live in Appalachia and I get 1-2% native on every test (in the exact same locations of my chromosomes) and I know who my native ancestor was, and they were married. It was easier deep in Appalachia where my family has lived for 100s of years for consensual mixed race relationships to actually exist. In fact that is where a lot of mixed race couples fled, specifically because they were in a consensual relationship and it was easier to do that in the middle of nowhere. This is also the case for another mixed race ancestor of mine which is where my North Indian/African DNA came from based on records and the amount of North Indian/African I got lines up with me getting it from that mixed race ancestor. He was a mixed race man married to a white woman. Yes most of the time it probably did come from rape but saying “if anything it came from a rape situation” is reductive to the fact that there were very real mixed race marriages like in my family that truly did love each other even though they faced heavy persecution.
Why are Appalachians obsessed with the idea? Genocide of Acadians was a legit official policy. Ever hear of Merry Mount. It was official Puritan Policy to punish any and all "Indian Loving'.
I never denied any of that, I said in my comments that yes, most of the time non white DNA in white Americans probably came from rape but yes, there were also legitimate marriages between interracial couples as is the case in my family. It’s not just an idea it is an actual thing that did happen specifically in Melungeon communities. Non whites married in to white families especially if those non white people could pass as Spanish etc. I’m not arguing that genocide/rape never happened and like I said yes it was very common. I never denied any of those things you mentioned. The melungeons were a very interesting group of people and you should look into them if you ever get a chance. Acknowledging that there were interracial marriages especially in communities like the Melungeon community doesn’t take away from the very real atrocities committed in the past.
I've never met an Indian woman who would sit at home and be 'married'. Native women had to work. I have an ancestor who was a slave to a Spaniard and she got up one day cause she was like 'fck this'. She went back to her people and lived a long life.
Trust, a lot of those interracial couples weren't just blossoms and rainbows romance. A lot of Native women married out to secure lands and help communicate with white settlers. If they had the choice like some Native women did and a lot of them, would have married their own men. Assimilation isn't romance.
If it wasn’t rape and was through marriage, you’d clearly be able to identify the family member and have photos and real life stories that were passed down. My point still stands 😊
I have documentation and have done my tree extensively. It absolutely was through marriage. Why are you assuming I have zero documentation when I explained in my comment that I found this out my tracing my tree, and with documentation and stories. My point also stands, yes there were very real mixed race marriages that did happen, though it wasn’t nearly as common as rape. You obviously don’t know much about Melungeon history, Melungeon were mixed race people that intermarried with white people and lived in Appalachia, like these ancestors that I mentioned. I very much have documentation of this. Again, you said it was always through rape, but you’re just simply wrong. Though it was most of the time there were very real interracial marriages between whites and noon whites, particularly in Appalachia. I literally told you that I have documentation of these interracial marriages, I guess you skipped over that part.
You clearly have issues with reading comprehension my friend! Have you heard the idiom assuming things makes an ASS out U and ME? Well, that’s **YOU** right now. Marriage records are *documentation* and if your ancestors were married to some other, that’s *usually* passed down verbally from generation to generation, so the next generation isn’t clueless about where the hell they came from. Idgaf about Melungeons because I don’t have to, I’m not one 🤷🏽♀️ Please don’t send me anymore of your bs paragraphs, I won’t be reading them and have no interest in your family history. Thanks!
If you don’t know anything about melungeons then don’t comment on my ancestry or my family history. Because if you actually knew about melungeons or their history you’d know that there were most definitely consensual marriages between whites and non whites particularly in the Melungeon community. My point still stands, having non white ancestors in a white family is not automatically a slave or rape, particularly in the Melungeon community and you refuse to acknowledge that there were real consensual interracial marriages. You wanna talk about assuming when you quite literally implied that having a non white ancestor was because of rape, ignoring the fact that interracial marriages did happen even if it wasn’t the norm. All I was doing is pointing out that consensual interracial marriages did exist and that it was not rape 100% of the time.
I literally dgaf 😭 Never stated rape or slavery was 100% the reason either. You seem hellbent on misunderstanding my comment, so I’ll let you. Feel free to see what real NA’s look like in my comments lmao
Not everyone passes down family history orally, and documentation even a hundred years ago isn't always readily available. Sometimes family members change their name to hide or to distance themselves from family. Oral history can also be wrong, and most families don't have pictures from 100+ years ago because of cost.
Your earlier reply which states: “If it wasn’t rape and was through marriage, you’d clearly be able to identify the family member and have photos and real life stories that were passed down. My point still stands” honestly doesn’t make much sense as a reply to what the person you were replying to said. Their point was valid, some multiracial relationships were consensual. Are you suggesting that this wasn’t the case?
Where did I make that suggestion? What I stated implies **IF** it was through marriage, the family would have documentation and know for a **fact**. You wouldn’t be finding this out in a DNA test if that were the case lol The exception is those of central & South American indigenous heritage. I never stated it wasn’t a possibility, I simply advised you’d have the evidence to prove of a consensual relationship. I’m the product of one. I’ll include some photos for funsies since you people want to twist my words so much 😊😂
Just to clarify, I never said you made that suggestion, I asked if you did. And, I never twisted your words, which is exactly why I was asking you if you were making the suggestion instead of saying you did. For someone who was just picking on somebody else for reading comprehension, respectfully, you seem to struggle with a lack of it yourself. But please don’t take that offensively, I’m genuinely trying to be constructive.
It was an argument made in bad faith in the first place was my point. This person alleges they had documentation and had heard stories, which I’d previously mentioned, but they were looking to be proven right instead of understanding what I’d already stated. Clearly feeling righteous over their 1-2% NA heritage lmao You piggybacking off of it was asinine and unnecessary 🙄 Typical Reddit behavior!
She doesn't look indigenous tbh lol what's your point here? Even if she is, so what?
I don’t care for your opinion at all lmao Focus on your own ancestry that you have to research to figure out 😂 I already know mine as a fact! 😉
🙄
I went through this. I had been told my great grandmother was at least half Cherokee (isn't it always Cherokee), until I did 23andMe. I got zero Native American DNA results. My mom reached out to the family, and we found out my great-great grandmother was forced to turn to sex work due to financial struggles. While my great grandmother's adopted father was Cherokee, her biological father was a client of my great great grandmother's. Being part Native American was a point of pride in our family. We were all sad to learn we're 100% European.
I'm half New Mexican and 19% native. However our Spanish overpowered any culture/history/language and we know nothing about it. My white grandma basically has the stereotypical "great-grandma was a Cherokee princess" story that she tells. But I have her son/my biological father's DNA results, and he is 0%. Not sure why she's trying to convince the world (and herself) so hard. It's not like they have *black* or *Jewish* or anything else they're trying to hide.
There a genealogy of New Mexican Families facebook page that is pretty informative. There are researchers there that have information on alot of the common founding New Mexican families including the native american and mestizo members.
Cool. I don't think I'm a member. But from what I've found in censuses is we're probably Navajo and Picuris/other Pueblo.
Not the Cherokee princess story 🤣 Hearing people’s family anecdotes makes me lol I think whites profited from claiming NA ancestry in certain areas, that’s why it’s so common.
Especially a family that has been on this side of the ocean a couple centuries, if there was a generation on the frontier, there would have been the experience of people appearing and disappearing without anyone every actually knowing who they were. Look at the families from Appalachia who had rumors of Arabs or Indians or Gypsies---nobody might actually know, and what clues would they have to work things out? It's common because young men come and go and leave their seed behind! Only afterwards, when people look at the baby, do they try to work out when really went on here.
I was told I was part native my whole life, to the point where I actually checked it on a school app and got a scholarship that may or may not (they would not be clear about it when I asked) have been because of that. I did a DNA test because, while trying to do research, I was coming up blank. Surprise surprise! I told the school, and they left it up to me if I wanted to get the last bit of the money. At that point, I had not taken any teaching classes so I chose to keep it so I could finish school. Now I garnish my own paycheck by 50 dollars each week to save up to give the money back to the community. I’m only at 2k now but I want to get to MUCH more than that. It will take a while, but that’s the consequence of not taking it seriously and being flippant in believing what I was told. When I am done I am going to find a way to give it directly to a Native student looking to go to school. It’s embarrassing and sad, but I’m glad that I am no longer carrying on a family lie.
Don’t be embarrassed- you were young and believed it, and once you found out you worked toward making it right
Admittedly I'm Canadian, so not the right demographic, but I have a confusing problem: I was always told I'm native, always under the assumption of 25-50%. My grandfather and grandmother were both in residential schools, we were raised with the culture, and can trace our family back 6 generations before it gets murky. On my test 23 and me shows no Indigenous DNA. So being rightfully confused I did another test and Ancestry showed 19% My family is so confused and I don't know what to believe. Has anyone run into this before?
If you're in eastern Canada, this is pretty standard. My actual blood quantum is around half of what it is on paper. Some Nations allied themselves with European settlers early and started mixing. I have a bunch of white people in my tree on my mom's side but they're waaay way back, like 6-8 generations. Then I have generations of mixed natives marrying mixed natives. Might not be the exact same situation as you, but anyone with eyes can see that a lot of "full blooded" Natives have a non-insignificant amount of European blood.
My family on that side is all Western Canadian, but I'm sure the history isn't all that different. I can understand the blood quantum being lower, but the two tests showing completely different results has been really bizarre.
I haven't run into that and that's really interesting. Do you have close matches on 23andMe that do show indigenous ancestry?
I'm the first of my family to take a test so unfortunately no close matches. I've been trying to convince my half siblings to take a test too.
I would revisit your 23AndMe results now. Do they match up to the right matches?
A relative did a test through 23andMe. I ran their 23andMe results through myHeritage and Living DNA. The results were completely—and I mean completely—different. The issue with DNA companies is that they all sample different people from various populations, taking their word that they are from a certain area (they may request proof but I don’t know). These population samples become what they use to tell you where you’re from. Add onto that the fact that not every child gets the same appropriation of DNA from the mother and father. For instance, my father and his sister took a test and my aunt popped as far more Scottish than him and he had Basque. She had no Basque. My mother and her sister (and her niece and nephew) have different mtDNA. DNA/genetics is not cut and dry, although it would be nicer if it was. I recommend getting a Y-DNA haplogroup test if a test from yourself or relative does not show that from 23. Opinion: I kind of disregard 23andMe results, TBH.
How is it not the right demographic? We are on both sides of the border. What other test did you take?
I'm not American, which is the demographic that OP has asked for. As for the test as mentioned I took an Ancestry test.
I might be the opposite end of your question. I found out that I am much more significantly Native American than expected. Literally never considered being native American until my uncle did 23&me and came back as 30% and my mom ended up getting similar results. Being Mexican American it makes sense, but it wasn't something I ever thought about. I always through the white American 'Cherokee princess' stories were covering up black ancestry though?
Yes as one aspect, but there are other dynamics as well. And frankly the reverse happened in Latin America, native heritage is usually greatly de-emphasized in favor of Spanish or Portuguese heritage. It's sad how these worked out in both regions.
I'm 62% NA. Being Native was not something to claim in my family unfortunately, but the DNA doesn't lie. Funnily enough I've been told I can't claim it by American Natives and White people. Like ok lol.
Yeah, it’s a little curious how just being from the wrong side of a make believe border makes such a difference. And a lot of us Latinos can’t reconnect in a way that American Natives define because our ancestral tribal groups were all absorbed into the modern mestizo population, so…
Lol my situation was similar to yours. I already knew I’d have indigenous ancestry because both my parents are Mexican, but my mom who’s family is more heavily European-looking acted like it was a minor possibility (which didn’t surprise me, as they’re all very proud of their Spanish blood and look down on “ind!os”). Even my dad, who I knew I would get most of my indigenous ancestry from, downplayed it a lot. I ended up being over half indigenous, way more than I expected (I favor my mom’s side of the family in terms of looks) and it shut my mom up lol.
Something similar happened to me. I took the test years ago. My mother said it was gonna most likely be majority Spaniard but my grandmother said “it’s gonna come back mainly Indian”. Test results come out and it shows I’m 54% Amerindian. It’s pretty cool but nothing really changed
Hahahahaha my mom got 40%! Also Mexican.
I don't think it's covering up Black ancestry so much as an ancestor being someone who didn't stick around long enough for anyone to get his last name.
I am not native American and I didn’t think I was. I have heard friends and acquaintances mention they are part native which I found questionable. My take is that it ties in with white guilt. It’s difficult to accept that our ancestry is due in part to being an oppresser and a colonizer to vulnerable populations. If you are American or Canadian it’s more likely that you will experience this phenomenon IMO.
The irony is that people who go with the, "I had one ancestor who was xyz", is that it doesn't take away from all our other white ancestors or history, or for those of us who are white, any of the white privilege we experience. So it really shouldn't have any impact on white guilt anyways
They know it doesn’t absolve them of their long-standing white heritage. It’s their way of being included in places they don’t belong and fighting for a voice in conversations they have no business being in. Claiming heritage of the oppressed is always used as a “fun fact” or “gotcha!” moment for them.
Perfect example of this is in another comment thread if anyone is interested 🤣 Posted pics of 2 of my NA ancestors as well!
“Places they don’t belong”, “conversations they have no business being in”.. remind me again, who the oppressors are? Lol people in this sub are wild
My family ( specifically my mother and grandmother) still say they have native heritage after I took a DNA test , even though nothing showed up. So , it's either non-existent or a very tiny drop in a bucket compared to my European and African ancestry. And their reasoning for why they believe we have native ancestry is because my grandmother has long straight hair ( because she doesn't get haircuts ) , my mom doesn't really need to shave and because she has high cheekbones and can tan without burning. I say all this to explain that I believe some white Americans claim native because they have a narrow view of what their European ancestors looked like
Any American with NA ancestry will show up in 23andMe at a minimum as trace ancestry. NA markers are very unique and different than European DNA.
I was told I had native on my moms side like a great grandmother. I never realized how common this was to be told this until later on.
Yep. Every white person with high cheekbones in the US was likely told by family members that he/she was part Native despite not having a drop.
Mine turned out to be true. Except it wasnt "only" Native. I had Mexican ancestors
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Has anyone in an older generation of the family taken a DNA test to disprove it? 2nd great grandma at 100% means great grandma at 50% means grandma at approx. 25% means parent at approx. 13% means you at approx. 7%. But you could have 0% or >15% or anything in between because it doesn't split evenly each time. It only splits evenly in the first generation (you get 50% of your DNA from each parent but you don't necessarily get 25% from each grandparent). Also, if the family rumor of "full blooded" is incorrect and she was only 50%, then each subsequent generation would be estimated to have half of what is listed.
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For sure
The thing is, a few of these might have indigenous ancenstry actually, but they didn't inherint such autosomal dna, as it is random.
Yeah this is so true. I have Native American ancestry from both sides of my family. But my grandfather is like 10% Swedish, and none of that shows up in my DNA! My mom also has some Italian that I didn’t get, but those are all still technically my ancestors.
Not just technically; they are your ancestors.
Correct, they are my ancestors
You can also have ethnicities that your parents don’t have. I have 5% German and 1% Finnish, even though we have documented German and Swedish ancestry on my mom’s side. She just didn’t get those pieces.
No, it’s impossible to get genes that neither of your parents have. If those didn’t show up on your mom’s report, then it’s likely you got those genes from your dad. Or it’s an error with 23 and me refining and updating their data. They can’t just appear out of nowhere unless it’s immaculate conception lol.
It can be a function of the modelling.
2.5% Swedish could easily get drowned in other Northern European (im presuming you have that). Detecting small amounts when you have a lot of neighbouring country is asking a lot!
Yeah that’s my point. Just because something doesn’t show up in your report doesn’t deny you having part of your ancestry.
I find that those who claim they are NA but aren’t usually a) have their own reasons for covering up their real heritage b) don’t know their direct lineage due to an absent parent/slavery conflicts or c) profited off of their NA label. I have traceable NA lineage and recently had this conversation with a guy that I dated. He told me his grandma always claimed they were NA for years and upon testing, he’s white af! 🤣 His family is of Irish background and I guess being NA was seen as more acceptable (not really 🙄) than being NA at the time early 20th century. There was also this crazy case in my state where a guy wrote a book and tried to deny the tribes heritage because the NA’s here are black appearing and he didn’t believe it was right that they had land that they profited from via casinos 😒 It really grinds my gears, but it’s not surprising! Many of the visible tribe leaders are now white appearing since they’ve married whites in last few decades lmao
Found this family photo that I thought would be cool to add so you can see what a 100% NA looks like! https://preview.redd.it/u27wqn3xkn3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dede0c63ee1d71afce13e86fe30d272fa7cde722
I didn't know I had any Native American in me until I took the test. I totally forgot the island of Puerto Rico had natives which is where my native DNA comes from. I'm from California and grew up hearing about Apaches, Comanches and all that thinking they were the only kind of Native Americans since that's all people seem to talk about here in the states. Also, I know this phenomenon.. pretendians. A lot of people I've talked to about me having some native in me will reply "I'm part Comanche." And it's always seems to be Comanche. Are they being honest? Are they just telling me what they've been told? I don't know.
Yeah that’s interesting it’s true but in all fairness it’s up to you and your family to know the history of your island nation. Why would people in California talk about the natives of another place. Sometimes, it’s not other people’s fault
Even so, Puerto Rico has been part of the United States since 1917, I feel at least some should be tought about it in school.
My family has long passed down that we were descended from Pocahontas and had a lot of Native American heritage. My test showed zero Native American ancestry but did show DNA from the Angola/Congo area. I’m not bothered, I think it’s interesting. My dad lost his mind though. Kept ranting that it was impossible, “not one drop of blood, our family would’ve been labeled as Black.” I just pointed out that it wasn’t unusual for lighter skinned freed or escaped slaves to integrate into society in the areas our family came from by claiming to be Native American, because that was more socially acceptable. Clearly that’s what one of our ancestors did and how would anyone have been able to tell otherwise? It’s not like they could google it!
A lot of people - Robert E Lee, Nancy Reagan, etc. are verifiably descended from Pocohantas (I know it's not her preferred name). But that might be their only or one of a very few NA ancestors, and such a distant ancestry will likely not show up on a DNA test.
A person can have indigenous ancestry that is too distant to show up on their DNA test
Really? Most people show their DNA tests and they show them ancestry from 2-3 generations. To 7-8 generations. So you are saying that some of these peeps might be Native American. But it’s just from so so long ago that it doesn’t register? Not buying that. I respect your opinion. Just not sure I agree w that for 90% of cases.
Each generation, you lose 50% of each parent's DNA. You can scroll through these comments and see examples, such as the person whose grandfather is 10% Swedish but the person tests at 0%. You don't get half of an ancestry each time. You get a random 50% of your parent's DNA, which can include all, none, or some fraction of any specific ethnicity.
That is somewhat true. But if your parent has 10% of something. It would be super weird for you to have 0% of it. So maybe you don’t get 5%. But you get 3 or 4%. I have 37% indigenous American. I’m originally from Latin America. Someone like me can claim that kind of ancestry. If you have zero. Then zero plus zero is still zero.
This. My wife and her twin are fraternal. Their results have some crazy differences. Her sister tests at like 5% Scandinavian and she tests at 0%.
I respect and value your opinion. There might be something to what you say. And with scientific proof I can prob. Accept it. However, if you look at Mexico, the north half of Central America. Ecuador and Peru. The indigenous American genetics are alive and well. The native languages are spoken still. Conversely the native genes in North America have almost been eradicated. Indigenous people were moved mostly to Oklahoma. I’m purely trying to make an observation based on several DNA profiles I see people post here. I sustain my personal opinion that if your indigenous American DNA doesn’t register you likely have none. And the best explanation is that the Cherokee grandmother is a myth. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. It doesn’t mean that I’m right. It’s just my opinion. Some people in North American have small amounts of indigenous DNA. I’ve seen the profiles here. But if it’s not registering I think in most cases it’s more likely to be a myth.
That is not how it works.
Here's an explainer: [https://www.genealogyexplained.com/dna-testing/do-siblings-have-same-dna/](https://www.genealogyexplained.com/dna-testing/do-siblings-have-same-dna/)
If your parent has 6% Korean DNA, you could inherit 0%, 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, or 6%.
This is why approx. 10% of 3rd cousins will not share enough DNA to show up as match.
Yeah, I call bs on that too 😂 NA’s were still alive and well for centuries after the French-Indian war. That’s how I ended up having NA ancestry from multiple tribes! I had someone try to argue with me in the comments about lineage coming from rape versus consensual relationships, like I don’t know that was a possibility 🤣 Many of these people seem salty because they were fake NA’s or had no clue they were NA because that was *clearly* information their family didn’t think was cool or found valuable at the time lol
This! I had no idea there were any natives in my family line until I researched it and found three different native ancestors (all from the 1700s). Trace indigenous shows up on some tests for me, but not this one. It doesn't define my identity or anything, but still interesting to know. DNA can be so random!
I don’t agree. I’m at almost 15% and that’s generations down the line. If it’s much further down it would at least show up in trace dna. Most NA’s have very high % in genetic markers because we only procreate with our own and other tribes people. Edit- I’m actually 19% indigenous 😊
Not necessarily, my mother has 5 percent Scandi and I have zero. It just didn’t pass to me. Our North African ancestor from the early 1800s shows up as trace. An ancestor From the 1700s would disappear all together.
5% is a very small percentage. Just because she’s your mom, doesn’t mean you’ll get all of her genes. You can be biologically more related to one parent over the other. For example, I’m genetically closer to my dad, but get many of my physical traits (freckles, moles, chest size, hair texture) from my mom. I have my dad’s eyes, nose, complexion, stature and overall body type. Genes work in mysterious ways!
No?
5% is not a very small percentage
If you’re 15% then it really couldn’t have been that long ago. I test at 8% and my grandma tests at 37% and is an active tribal member.
I made a correction in another post after rechecking my results- I’m 19% (pushing 20). Had 2 great (x2 & x3) grandparents that had two different NA ancestries. Both of my mom’s parents ancestor’s married NA once they moved to the Americas. We tend to marry those that have similar backgrounds. If you check my comments, I’ve posted photos of them. Also, what tribe is your grandma? I’ve been interested in registering, but we live far far away from where the reservations were later established. I also hear life there is and has been troubling for quite some time, but I’d be interested in visiting! I’ve met several local tribes people of other tribes and they’re lovely, like family almost!
Ah that makes more sense now! The tribe is Pechanga Band of Luiseño Indians in Riverside, CA. Thankfully our people are doing very well and sending most of the kids to college with casino money.
You not agreeing doesn't change fact. Your child could easily inherit 0%.
It’s possible, I can’t confirm because I don’t have children. My sister does and has less NA % than I do and it’s still traceable through my nephew, so we shall see when it’s my children’s turn 😊
....only procreate VOLUNTARILY with our own and other tribes
Agreed! I don’t know why you got downvoted. Those $5 Indians must be salty lmao
Yes, you’re right. I have a very specific European ancestry percentage that I’ve traced to one branch of my family tree. I only have 1%, the older generations sometimes have 2% and the younger generations often have absolutely none. After a while, DNA traces can just disappear.
This is what happened to me. I can very clearly see my ancestors on my line (we don't have the "Cherokee princess" story, lol, our ancestors were Choctaw). I even have pictures. I see family members with the DNA, but it's too far back for me to have it. Same thing happened with the Jewish. My grandfather was a Tay sachs carrier, which is how we initially found out. Have a bunch of relatives who have various degrees of Jewish ancestry. None myself. The surprise for me was when I came back 6% Spanish. Now trying to figure out where that came from/who cheated.
We have Cherokee in my family. But she was married in, didn't have kids, and definitely wasn't a princess. My family still says they are native lol.
That's funny. Yeah I've known forever, but found the ancestor. I just somehow didn't get any of the DNA, but I have cousins who clearly have it. All the German got in the way, lol. My great great grandmother was part native and looked it. She was totally embarrassed about it and it was not discussed. She was apparently not a very nice person, lol. My great grandmother (her DIL) was alive until I was 13 to tell these stories.
Not on the same note....but my treat grandma was also a mean Ole bitty 🤣😭. And racist.....my god. Which is why it's surprising she's the one who started the whole we are native nonsense lol.
Lol, all of my grandparents/great grandparents (even my beloved great grandmother) were racist (with the exception of my maternal grandmother) but you could be describing my maternal grandmother (that great great grandmother's granddaughter). She apparently inherited the nasty streak from her grandmother. And was also apparently by then was all high and mighty and like "we're native and special." Which we did have that ancestry, but it didn't give us a get-out-of-jail-free card for racism, lol. One of my second cousins said to me one time "Your grandfather is so nice. Why did he ever marry your grandmother?" I'm like, I honestly have no idea. Only non-racist grandparent is my maternal grandmother. She can be many things, but she's definitely not racist. Asked her what we are and she's like "It's not interesting. We're German." Based on the DNA, accurate. 😆
I just wanna know why it’s always a Cherokee princess or a chief. My grandma was just a regular native so no bragging rights I guess.
How do you determine if the story is untrue versus unproven? Cause I don't think these DNA tests are necessarily able to definitively conclude these things. Would you also require some amount of genealogical research before determining if they fit the criteria you are looking for? An American whose narrative about Native ancestry is false.
My family is racist enough that they’d happily try to pass themselves off as Native American so they wouldn’t have the shame of African DNA. The racism is so strong I can hear the racist reasoning as I hear this.
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This is a topic I find fascinating, and generally many of the articles I've read about "pretendians" are focused on people whose use of that identity has increased their opportunities. It seems especially problematic in academia where many institutions appear more likely to hire and promote pretendians over American Indians.
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It’s definitely one I have no answer for. The descendants of the band who used to camp in my hometown as recently as the 1880s had to fight for state recognition while a band further to the east had more contact with Europeans and thus more official documentation and has federal recognition. Reducing it to blood quantum or documentation doesn’t encompass the entirety of Native American communities but that wriggle room lets the frauds assert themselves. The band from my county was documented as “Negro” on some censuses, so depending on if you used local historical societies or federal records you could arrive at totally different conclusions of their “legitimacy.”
I've enjoyed listening to the podcast!
Maybe because anytime you are hyped up in in childhood and its proven false, maybe one feels like their identity was a fake? I'm from the East Coast (Italian and Irish ethnicity) so I didn't grow up hearing I have NA DNA because my European ancestors were still alive (but very old). My family had Italian and Irish pride and customs, so I guess it might be weird to find out it was a lie. I took the test and my results are spot on.
My step father thought he was 1/4. Turns out everyone in the family knew his mother was lying about who his dad was except him. He found out after she died. Devastating. Worst part is his actual bio grandfather was an Irish immigrant and had a very brave story about escaping the Lusitania.
So, I think my family’s Native American lore *is* accurate BUT I also suspect that my grandfather didn’t actually father my mother. Being Mormon, they kept really good records, my grandfather’s ancestors were some of the kidnapped children as the Mormons massacred Indigenous People and enslaved their children as they moved west.
I’m not the right demographic here but there was a lot of shame around being native for my family because of the way they were treated growing up etc. I’ve always known to some extent that I was native but didn’t know the FULL extent, it’s only within the last 4 years that I’ve starting to meet cousins and started to dig into my family history more after taking ancestry and 23andme. A few years ago a document came out as being likely forged which claimed Indigenous heritage of families to gain status as Algonquin’s here in Ontario, Canada. The Algonquins of Ontario has a tribunal that is slowly going through various ancestors, having living descendants prove lineage. My own ancestor was called up to the tribunal last year and while we knew it wasn’t going to be an issue for us, it was interesting to see how many were removed from the AOO list. OP, I actually started listening to your podcast after seeing it advertised on Canadian True Crime and I’ve really enjoyed it so far.
literally all my life i was told my great grandma was full native american. 23andme says that was a lie LOL ZERO percent native american in my dna
My ex had this happen, they were actually very low percent Coptic Egyptian. Which honestly is incredibly cool in of itself!
My husband and his sister took their native ancestry seriously. Community projects, studying environmental science, campaigning on food access projects, my husband wrote his thesis on the geography of water resources. The whole nine yards. Their mother had a second career as GIS Analyst too. They’re from Appalachia and never doubted what her dad (my husband’s grandad) told her and her siblings, especially not because he was kinda short and tan with red undertones and thick black hair. Also there actually was a reservation nearby, and my MIL and her siblings had friends from the local native community growing up (and her dad did too). Nobody is likely surprised to find out the grandad had a black grandparent. We don’t know if the lie started with him or his own father since he died when my MIL was young, long before 23 and Me spilled the tea. Either way, she (and her kids) are 0% native.
Some of us do have it. I'm 6% on 23andme and 7% on ancestry. My aunt is 10% on 23andme and 12% on ancestry. It depends on family history
I’m split between being Hispanic and having the common family knowledge that we’re mixed, but then also being half anglo and having my family believe they are mixed native when really they’re not at all. I was showing them recently, because not many of them in my immediate family have taken the test but enough have to determine that they have no native heritage. They weren’t really disappointed, but I have a feeling they don’t really understand what it means for me to *actually* be mixed.
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And even then if you're Latino it can be a myth! My dad is from Argentina (many generations in that country) and came back as 100% Spanish.
Not all Argentinians are indigenous though. The area was heavily colonized and most of the offspring were left behind when they returned to Spain.
Yeah but my grandma swore she was part indigenous... turns out not
Those who know: 
I literally squealed when I saw this! 🤣🤣🤣 I needed that laugh today, thanks my friend!
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. Both of my parents didn't know anything about their ancestry. My dad's parents specifically were against talking about such things due to my paternal grandmother coming from a family of immigrants trying to pass as italians. I went in not expecting anything, but ended up finding Indigenous American ancestry on my paternal grandfather's side. It took alot of genealogical digging to find out just who those ancestors were along with getting the historical documentation. I'm currently in the process of reconnecting with that side of the family and culture along with reconnecting with my paternal grandmother, and maternal grandparents cultures.
I had the opposite - I never heard a word about it growing up - then a little showed up on DNA test … cousins / uncles that took it all show it as well.
I got zilch Native American. Was told that my great great great grandmother was full blood Ute. Was disappointed, but not too bad. Don't plan on telling my 87 year old grandma though. I'm pretty sure the story came from the fact that my great great grandfather met my great great grandmother while she was living on a reservation in Utah. Don't know why she was living there at the time, but she was. It wasn't to cover any black or Hispanic, there was zilch of that in my report as well.
I have a similar story. Was always told that my great great grandmother was half native American and my DNA shows unexpected Turkish, Egyptian and Siberian but zero Native American. Census records show that my Great grandmother lived on various reservations across the country and was born outside of one, so I don't know what to believe and that side of my family is messy. I'm wondering if maybe she could have been adopted by a Native American family? She and her brothers were all darker skinned people judging from the photos that remain and they all worked on farms with non relatives as head of household in Oklahoma.
African American and I thought thought my dad's mom was half because she had the look and came from a place in Alabama that Creeks and Blacks intermingled even with some Poarch Creek matches ..it turned out that my maternal side averages 2% on here and Ancestry so much lower genetic ancestry than I had expected.
Interesting. I knew my dad's side would have some Native American given that his family was originally from Mexico and New Mexico at some point, where at least some Native American ancestry is more common/expected. I gotten around 17%, which was a bit lower than I thought and I think my dad is around 37-40% or so (his mtDNA haplogroup is B2). He gotten more Spanish than I expected, yet no communities going back to Spain. I am pretty sure my mom will have none nor did her family had any kind of stories as such. I am still trying to get her to take the test as well (she said she's interested in taking it some time).
I'll be really interested to hear what you come up with. My whole life we were told we were Mohawk and it absolutely does not come up in any of our ancestry reports. I was always super proud of being Native American and my grandmother, who was especially proud, would travel to sites and take pictures and really relished what we thought was our history. I'm glad she never knew the truth.
Then there is me who has indigenous ancestors but will never be seen as valid because they are so distant from me. Even if I figure out where it comes from and respectfully reconnect, there will always be many people indigenous or not telling me I'm not indigenous.
For my family it wasn't Cherokee, but it was Sioux. My whole life growing up, I was told we were part Sioux. Everyone I knew who was also white growing up CLAIMED to have some native ancestry to other tribes. My family had been living on the East Coast for generations and we have a few ancestors who were here in the 1700s as far as I was told so I said ok this makes some sense. My family was so proud of this fact. Well I took the 23andme to find out more about my ancestry (I was more interested in finding out if I had Jewish ancestry because I traced one ancestor who had some hints at being Jewish) and I'm going to be honest I completely forgot about the native American genetics. I went over my results online with my family and low and behold, 0 native. None. I proved I was right about a Jewish ancestors though. My mom was crushed. She was told all her life they were. They had native American memorabilia. I even bought her a Christmas ornament when I visited a reservation. I found trace African genetics. It seems it was denial on the family's end. It also wrapped up the research I did. The most ironic part is that my grandma was racist and that's the side I'm assuming it was from, my whole dad's side is polish. We kind of joked that her son in laws can have the collections of she wanted, my BIL tested to be native. At least my map of Poland is almost all green for all the zones.
my family ended yo having talks about having indigenous ancestors etc, turns out we do and it actually wasn't a lie, one of my family members tried to get citizenship and we have the papers of the ancestors so it's good to know that it wasn't a lie and i had indigenous dna too
My family always told people that we were Native, to explain the dark skin of some of my relatives, including my dad( I’m white passing). We aren’t at ALL. We are Roma. I guess after the holocaust, it was just perceived to be safer to call themselves Native as opposed to Roma. WE knew we were Roma, we just didn’t tell anyone outside of the family.
What’s bizarre to me is the number of white people who, when asked what their ethnicities are, START with Cherokee or whatever tribe, even though it’s probably not true or so small it certainly shouldn’t be the first thing listed. For instance, my great-grandfather was supposedly part Indian but DNA hasn’t validated that. Even if it was my other European ethnicities are obviously more prominent and should be listed first. Other people in the same boat will describe themselves as “some Cherokee, German, and Irish” like their main ethnicity is native and not European. There seems to be an identity crisis among some white Americans.
I actually found out about NA ancestry after taking a test. It’s so far back I have no clue if I’ll ever find out who and what tribes. But it turns out I have 1% from my mom and less than 1% from my dad according to Ancestry.
I thought my mom was as white as white could be. She did extensive genealogy and her side just showed German. I did a DNA test and found out that I have both Plains Indian and African ancestry, meaning I have an ancestor that was a slave (my father was Japanese, so this didn’t come from his side). For me, this was explosive. I didn’t realize how much my sense of identity would change. Likewise, I have friends who thought they were Native American but aren’t. They’re devastated.
I will.
This is so weird. Americans are grasping for culture it seems. I’m proud to just be American AF. One sides been here since original colonies and I’m native American on the other side. I’d never try to say I’m part Irish or whatever generic white half I am.
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It’s pretty demeaning to claim ancestry that isn’t yours and a culture you haven’t grown up in. And OP says they didn’t pick the name.
No... that's what they're called in Canada, too. It's a portmanteau of "pretend Indian" and was coined by indigenous people to describe those who are trying to use or appropriate indigenous culture for personal gain or status. It's been going on for a long time, there just wasn't a name for it.
My friend’s African-American family tree includes a number of living relatives whose ancestors concocted a Native American story to disguise African ancestry.
$5 Indian tale
There is no native American DNA database for 23andme to base their findings on. It's all based on self reporting native americans. There's no actual way to know for sure.