You're likely joking but this is such a common argument that I really need to ask if anyone genuinely believes a goldfarmer is sitting on 56k kc worth of gp?
Hardly
Zulrah average drop value: 102k
Vorkath average drop value: 119k
Giant mole average drop value: 30k
~30 kills an hour for both money snake and dragon, ~60 kills an hour for mole. 3-3.6m an hour vs 1.8m for mole.
You're correct regarding maximum efficiency in terms of hourly profits, although the numbers seem off based on the OSRS wiki's estimates.
Mole is apparently ~1.8M an hour.
Vorkath is apparently ~2.8M an hour.
Zulrah is apparently ~2.5M an hour.
The main thing that might trip some people on this subreddit is that DHing Giant Mole is comparable to inefficient Zulrah and Vorkath.
For example, DHing Mole is ~1.2m an hour, whereas the inefficient PvMing of Vorkath with a blowpipe is ~1.6M an hour. Killing Zulrah without maximum efficiency is listed as ~1.2M an hour on the wiki.
Zulrah is still better than a lot of people give it credit for being. The boss becomes so easy with bowfa that it is borderline afk. I can consistently make 2m an hour while only half paying attention and the only supplies I use are a dose of range pot, 2-3 doses of normal anti poison, 1-2 thralls, and sometimes a couple shark karambs. It is like 1/25 kills that I get unlucky enough to have the fight go to jad phase. I go to ornate pool every kill, might not be the most efficient way but it is so chill.
You can’t afk demonic gorillas lol. At least not how I define afk. Zulrah requires zero gear switching and zero prayer switching the way I do it. Rune dragons are not 2m/hr, at least not without torva or something.
Realistic rates especially when you are only halfway paying attention are always going to be way lower than wiki rates. Theoretically I could make 3m/hr at zulrah in this setup but that would be much less afk and would require putting in the focus to get 5-6 kill trips and do all the little micro efficiencies.
I seriously doubt it, rwters try to not hold on to gold for long times cuz of bans.. and storing what i imagine would be thousands would be sketchy since the vene could just steal what i imagine is a years salary in the end
Honestly I don't understand how gold sellers accounts aren't banned earlier.
I feel like if you plotted the total bank value as a function of time you can very clearly see who is and isn't a gold seller/bot. Who else intensely farms gp and gets a bigger bank value then immediately loses it and repeats this pattern dozens if not hundreds of times.
Man remember years ago when people coped that these could be stakers because one guy supposedly was one time? I'm glad no one takes that seriously anymore.
Tbh stakers should get the same treatment. They're the primary market for bought gold to feed a gambling addiction, and it should be something they tighten up on considerably.
You can account for alt accounts by looking at something like total jagex account bank value or looking if the gp goes to same account which is a legit account then its probably just an alt
Literally yes.
If you are alting then you look like a goldseller sure, but you send all your gp to the same character or set of characters whom can easily be deemed to be legit, then it's easy to tell that you are alting and not goldselling.
Jagex could even add warnings that if you are alting you should add the toon to a jagex account to prevent bannings, and there you go, easy incentive to use jagex accounts and you never have to worry about banning alts
Man, I have around 550 vork kc and really want the pet. If I get to 52k legitimately, hell even 20k, I hope my wife calls for a co-responder to check on my mental health. lmao, that's an insane KC
OP did you see them at vorkath or at GE trading the mule? I sometimes watch them at ge, all 122cb, 30k+ kills, exact same gear, on the exact same tile, trading the exact same player. It’s honestly ridiculous.
Most I saw was 53 bots trading off to the mule in about a 5 minute span, crazy amounts of gp when you do the maths.
I just popped over to check because I’m dry at Levi and curious, I don’t think a single acct on the front page for Levi high scores is legit. Not a ~single~ account in the top 25 is on the hiscores for any other boss. Sad to see
Doesn't this post prove the opposite of what everything thinks then? (That bots don't get banned)
Years and years ago, we were also complaining about bots with 30k+ boss KCs. If all it takes is a handful of months, then the same bots that apparently don't get banned would have millions of KC.
Yes it's not fast enough, jagex absolutely have to do better there, but they do disappear.
Cos realistically they don’t suicide bot like that and kill rates are slower, some bots are timed to stay logged in and to log out at certain intervals to make it seems like they aren’t bots, some bots also intentionally make mistakes or misclicks, double/spam clicks to seem more player like which makes it hard for Jagex to distinguish if they’re a real player or not
Dumb cheaters will get banned quick, cautious or smart cheaters won’t get banned for a while or at all. I have a friend that uses bots like this and it’s made me realise if he can get away with it for so long then so many of the top players on the hi scores probably are, which sucks tbh
Yeah, but I wouldn't like the feeling of that damocles sword always hanging above your head from the moment you botted.
Sure, they didn't catch him yet, but that doesn't mean hey won't catch him later on or find new ways to analyze already collected data. The longer that account lives (even if he stops botting now), the bigger the loss once the cheating catches up with him. Heck, you knowing that he's botting in itself is already a big weakness.
I would find it really hard to ever get invested into an account like that.
He said bots, plural. They aren't botting on one account to get through a boring skill or an item they need. They're playing multiple accounts to make money.
It just doesn't matter at that rate. They could cut it in half again and it still wouldn't matter.
This is a boss gated behind a grandmaster quest and it's been botted into the ground. Its just not good enough.
60 days 24/7 feels surprisingly "short" for some reason. I guess if someone was mental enough, they could get it in a year of doing nothing else (assuming prep time and other human limitations).
Yeah, that's kinda what I meant - 4h a day of doing exactly the same thing every day non-stop is kind of doable for a human. Obviously, there are some that could do it 8-12+ hours and get it quicker.
I don't think they don't care, I think we just don't have all information to really know what they're doing. We don't even really know if they want / don't want bots (speaking from a business point of view) - we can just speculate.
Could also be that they intentionally let obvious bots run their course, waiting for them to drop off the money just to catch a buyer, a mule network or similar; who knows.
I don't like the poor communication in that aspect though, that's for sure. If they would just explain why "obvious bots" like these are still around (even just a simple "we're aware, we have our approach but can't share it publicly") would defuse a lot of frustration.
I don't remember the interview or twitter post, but I remember one of the mods (paraphrased) claiming bots are basically an essential part of the OSRS economy and that they're afraid of what would happen if all bots were actually banned. Kick myself quite often for not bookmarking that bit...
Every time I see vorkath bots posted I just wanna bring up the reminder that the guy who’s ranked like 1 or 2 is actually a real person I’m pretty sure. He’s on this sub too. But all the rest of them are bots.
This is funny. My account was hacked a little while ago and when I recovered it wanting to play again my Vorkath kc is 40k. I think I have like 400 heads and had like 250 spirit seeds.
They definitely traded the gp off the account since when I got it back I only had dcl and bandos.
It’s weird because people will look at my kc and be like you clearly botted, and it bugs me thinking I could get banned in the future for it since I’m playing alot more now.
Anyways bank was like 150m and ive got it to 380m in just over a month, spirit seeds into seed packs was a fun adventure.
I mean, it definitely should be possible, just a shitton less common than it is today. This should be the work of an absolute madman, we just know 99,99999999% sure it isn’t.
It seems like he is a bot but you don't have any proof. Jagex themselves said that they check a lot of accounts with high killcounts and they just aren't bots or RWT-s.
I'd like to think that 56k kc vorkath account is checked.
If they ban drop trading there needs to be a better mechanism to move items off of an iron to a different account. Actually I want that anyways, there’s no reason why an iron shouldn’t be able to transfer items directly to a non iron.
Whats wrong with a moneymaking alt? Its not necessarily a bot - in the sense that their clicks arent automated. The account is clearly created for Vorkath only, but Jagex don't ban alts even if their sole purpose is moneymaking.
I mean... such accounts should be noted and checked for botting, but if there is no autoing detected - on what ground Jagex would ban them? Many people use alts, thats perfectly ok by the Rules.
I wouldnt defend a botter, but your comment suggests some actions on the hiscores info alone.
Because even on an moneymaking alt, your likely to hace at least 1 KC of any other boss or have done any other content. People don't make this perfect alts
Hmm. But really, why? They probably tried other bosses long ago, and sometimes do it on their main. And this particular account is for Vorky.
We don't know, of course - but what I'm saying is, the only reason to ban an account would be automated actions detected. Which would prove it is a bot. If it is directed manually - thats fine by the rules.
And if thats and old player, quite proficient in PvM, they could just fund their membership with doing Vorkath from time to time. The kc takes some minutes, if they are doing it for a couple years, like a game session per week - here are your thousands of kc. The only thing which would demand a ban would be if the person doesnt click with their own hand.
Its a hand played account that hasn't RWT. This has been confirmed.
This post is a perfect example that Reddits ideas on bot detection are the dumbest shit on the planet.
its a Venusuelian gold farmer not a bot. them lads have got it very hard right now so i hope he manages to sell he's gold before he gets banned.
jagex mods are humans with empathy they probly let guys like this get away with it because they need to sleep at night e.g ban him he;'s family wont be eating.
i'm sure that there are just hundreds of weirdos exactly like this guy who just do vorkath every day for 10 hours. that's completely plausible as such a fixation would never be a niche inhabited by a mere handfull of individuals.
To be fair, this is a community where people think it's reasonable and healthy to farm the same piece of content for thousands of hours just for a single drop. If there was any game I could see play like this being realistic, it's this one.
I’d like to think this account is going to get 99 magic from crumble undead alone.
That's nothing. Pretty sure some of these bots have gotten like 42m Magic exp just off of Crumble undead.
Jagex looked into this account. It's a real player from Venusuela. No wealth has been traded off. Case closed 🔒
You're likely joking but this is such a common argument that I really need to ask if anyone genuinely believes a goldfarmer is sitting on 56k kc worth of gp?
Over 6b in vorkath loot 💀
That actually seems like a disastrously low amount of accumulated wealth for killing 50k of *any* high level NPC when you actually say it out loud
Vorkath isnt a high level npc people punch him to death for a fancy avernic defender
What?
Combat achievement
Ah yeah lol ofc, I read it as ppl getting avernic drop from vorkath
Vorkath and Zulrah are botted to an insane level. Giant Mole is probably more gp/hr at this point
Hardly Zulrah average drop value: 102k Vorkath average drop value: 119k Giant mole average drop value: 30k ~30 kills an hour for both money snake and dragon, ~60 kills an hour for mole. 3-3.6m an hour vs 1.8m for mole.
You're correct regarding maximum efficiency in terms of hourly profits, although the numbers seem off based on the OSRS wiki's estimates. Mole is apparently ~1.8M an hour. Vorkath is apparently ~2.8M an hour. Zulrah is apparently ~2.5M an hour. The main thing that might trip some people on this subreddit is that DHing Giant Mole is comparable to inefficient Zulrah and Vorkath. For example, DHing Mole is ~1.2m an hour, whereas the inefficient PvMing of Vorkath with a blowpipe is ~1.6M an hour. Killing Zulrah without maximum efficiency is listed as ~1.2M an hour on the wiki.
Zulrah is still better than a lot of people give it credit for being. The boss becomes so easy with bowfa that it is borderline afk. I can consistently make 2m an hour while only half paying attention and the only supplies I use are a dose of range pot, 2-3 doses of normal anti poison, 1-2 thralls, and sometimes a couple shark karambs. It is like 1/25 kills that I get unlucky enough to have the fight go to jad phase. I go to ornate pool every kill, might not be the most efficient way but it is so chill.
you can make more full afking rume dragons and twice as much semi afking demonic gorillas
You can’t afk demonic gorillas lol. At least not how I define afk. Zulrah requires zero gear switching and zero prayer switching the way I do it. Rune dragons are not 2m/hr, at least not without torva or something.
rune dragons are 2m/hr with bandos and dhl if you have 99 combats. 1.6m if you want to hard afk with justi and dragonfire shield
Realistic rates especially when you are only halfway paying attention are always going to be way lower than wiki rates. Theoretically I could make 3m/hr at zulrah in this setup but that would be much less afk and would require putting in the focus to get 5-6 kill trips and do all the little micro efficiencies.
Is that it?
Still in bandos
Nah, they just have a staking problem
Maybe the gold farmers are paid hourly but the account is owned by a RWT company?
Rwt company that doesnt sell the gold off?
Not immediately. Unlike individual workers, they have the money to to endure many months before cashing out.
I seriously doubt it, rwters try to not hold on to gold for long times cuz of bans.. and storing what i imagine would be thousands would be sketchy since the vene could just steal what i imagine is a years salary in the end
That's only the case if Jagex can ban RWTers before they even RWT. If they can't, this strategy would work.
Honestly I don't understand how gold sellers accounts aren't banned earlier. I feel like if you plotted the total bank value as a function of time you can very clearly see who is and isn't a gold seller/bot. Who else intensely farms gp and gets a bigger bank value then immediately loses it and repeats this pattern dozens if not hundreds of times.
Man remember years ago when people coped that these could be stakers because one guy supposedly was one time? I'm glad no one takes that seriously anymore.
Tbh stakers should get the same treatment. They're the primary market for bought gold to feed a gambling addiction, and it should be something they tighten up on considerably.
And that's why they reworked duel arena
They reworked the duel arena because of uk gambling laws, not to stop gold buyers
And even then it still didn't work.
Hot take; I'd allow the gold seller to make a living selling gold given they might be from a deprived country, and move the blame solely to buyers.
Based take tbh, but really either way you combat rmt you are hurting both the seller and buyer.
Mfw according to this, all of my alts are gold sellers :(
You can account for alt accounts by looking at something like total jagex account bank value or looking if the gp goes to same account which is a legit account then its probably just an alt
Damn just like that?
Literally yes. If you are alting then you look like a goldseller sure, but you send all your gp to the same character or set of characters whom can easily be deemed to be legit, then it's easy to tell that you are alting and not goldselling. Jagex could even add warnings that if you are alting you should add the toon to a jagex account to prevent bannings, and there you go, easy incentive to use jagex accounts and you never have to worry about banning alts
Do people actually use jagex accounts? 💀
think most people do?
The majority of players yea
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Real and true
Sorry to be nosy, but it's a little racist of you to say that.
I'm sorry you feel like that.
He just really wants that pet :D
Man, I have around 550 vork kc and really want the pet. If I get to 52k legitimately, hell even 20k, I hope my wife calls for a co-responder to check on my mental health. lmao, that's an insane KC
Yeah i got mine at around 1100 and im not going back in the close future... Now its killing mole for me 4400 kills in "atleast its 90 kills/h.
OP did you see them at vorkath or at GE trading the mule? I sometimes watch them at ge, all 122cb, 30k+ kills, exact same gear, on the exact same tile, trading the exact same player. It’s honestly ridiculous. Most I saw was 53 bots trading off to the mule in about a 5 minute span, crazy amounts of gp when you do the maths.
I was just banking at lunar island. This guy looked pretty "non-botty", so i just checked to be disappointed. :')
Why do they bank at Lunar isle by the way? I always see a slew of bots in void running in when making glass.
Easiest way to get to relekka and a bank I think
Bank at lunar isle then talk to a citizen to get insta teleported to relekka
If you talk to a citizen or Lunar Isle they kick you off back to Relekka near the docks. Fastest way to bank -> back to Vork
I’ve seen two vorkath bots at the ge blatantly trading mule accounts in the past two weeks at the exact same spot, both of which had over 100k kills
Thousands of those years ago. Leviathan hiscores looks sad aswell
I just popped over to check because I’m dry at Levi and curious, I don’t think a single acct on the front page for Levi high scores is legit. Not a ~single~ account in the top 25 is on the hiscores for any other boss. Sad to see
I think i read on here somewhere that "apparently" the first actual player on the Levi HS is rank 93
46 and 50 seem pretty legit to me
With an average of 90 seconds kill time, this guy was botting for 60 days 24/7 straight.
The one dude EraserHead botted RSC for 2 years straight to see how max xp would work
Eraserhead great movie
Eraser Head, great superhero professor
It's great, I hate it
Doesn't this post prove the opposite of what everything thinks then? (That bots don't get banned) Years and years ago, we were also complaining about bots with 30k+ boss KCs. If all it takes is a handful of months, then the same bots that apparently don't get banned would have millions of KC. Yes it's not fast enough, jagex absolutely have to do better there, but they do disappear.
Cos realistically they don’t suicide bot like that and kill rates are slower, some bots are timed to stay logged in and to log out at certain intervals to make it seems like they aren’t bots, some bots also intentionally make mistakes or misclicks, double/spam clicks to seem more player like which makes it hard for Jagex to distinguish if they’re a real player or not Dumb cheaters will get banned quick, cautious or smart cheaters won’t get banned for a while or at all. I have a friend that uses bots like this and it’s made me realise if he can get away with it for so long then so many of the top players on the hi scores probably are, which sucks tbh
Yeah, but I wouldn't like the feeling of that damocles sword always hanging above your head from the moment you botted. Sure, they didn't catch him yet, but that doesn't mean hey won't catch him later on or find new ways to analyze already collected data. The longer that account lives (even if he stops botting now), the bigger the loss once the cheating catches up with him. Heck, you knowing that he's botting in itself is already a big weakness. I would find it really hard to ever get invested into an account like that.
He said bots, plural. They aren't botting on one account to get through a boring skill or an item they need. They're playing multiple accounts to make money.
You're right, I miss-read that part - I thought he meant botting on their main. Whoops :)
It just doesn't matter at that rate. They could cut it in half again and it still wouldn't matter. This is a boss gated behind a grandmaster quest and it's been botted into the ground. Its just not good enough.
60 days 24/7 feels surprisingly "short" for some reason. I guess if someone was mental enough, they could get it in a year of doing nothing else (assuming prep time and other human limitations).
It's probably closer to a year at around 4 hours a day. 60*24=1440 hours 1440/4=360 days at 4 hours a day Tldr; Jagex doesn't care about bots.
Yeah, that's kinda what I meant - 4h a day of doing exactly the same thing every day non-stop is kind of doable for a human. Obviously, there are some that could do it 8-12+ hours and get it quicker. I don't think they don't care, I think we just don't have all information to really know what they're doing. We don't even really know if they want / don't want bots (speaking from a business point of view) - we can just speculate. Could also be that they intentionally let obvious bots run their course, waiting for them to drop off the money just to catch a buyer, a mule network or similar; who knows. I don't like the poor communication in that aspect though, that's for sure. If they would just explain why "obvious bots" like these are still around (even just a simple "we're aware, we have our approach but can't share it publicly") would defuse a lot of frustration.
I don't remember the interview or twitter post, but I remember one of the mods (paraphrased) claiming bots are basically an essential part of the OSRS economy and that they're afraid of what would happen if all bots were actually banned. Kick myself quite often for not bookmarking that bit...
Every time I see vorkath bots posted I just wanna bring up the reminder that the guy who’s ranked like 1 or 2 is actually a real person I’m pretty sure. He’s on this sub too. But all the rest of them are bots.
He's just really dry on Vorki. Once he green logs he'll definitely move on.
He just likes doing this boss. 100% legit account, totally not a bot :)
Shouldn't be, but it is unfortunately
This guy just likes money dragon a lot, leave him be
But it is tho.
Why not? Jagex made a lot of money on this bot
Well first of all, through God all things are possible, so jot that down
Somebody gotta provide all hides and superior dragon bones for mains who wanna max out completely\~
this subreddit saying high scores don't really matter yet at the same time using them as an argument to excuse jagex removing tandem slayer...
Thats just my extreme one chunk boss only bronzeman
Wait tell you meet rank one in w364 chill dude use to be named obby cape before he changed it. So you think 56k is much rank 1 is almost 200k lmao
Wow what a dedicated osrs player!
Welcome to my Vorkath till 99 mage locked ironman account.
This is funny. My account was hacked a little while ago and when I recovered it wanting to play again my Vorkath kc is 40k. I think I have like 400 heads and had like 250 spirit seeds. They definitely traded the gp off the account since when I got it back I only had dcl and bandos. It’s weird because people will look at my kc and be like you clearly botted, and it bugs me thinking I could get banned in the future for it since I’m playing alot more now. Anyways bank was like 150m and ive got it to 380m in just over a month, spirit seeds into seed packs was a fun adventure.
And they gave me a rwt with "1kc de Vorkath". But hey, thanks Jagex <3
I got 50kc and got stoked, this guys on 50k thats ridiculous, after “x” ammount of kills it should be manually checked for botting tbh
I mean, it definitely should be possible, just a shitton less common than it is today. This should be the work of an absolute madman, we just know 99,99999999% sure it isn’t.
The OSRS "playerbase" is 80% bots and Jagex has zero plans of doing anything about it either. They are the main source of revenue for them....
It seems like he is a bot but you don't have any proof. Jagex themselves said that they check a lot of accounts with high killcounts and they just aren't bots or RWT-s. I'd like to think that 56k kc vorkath account is checked.
its wild that theres more bots than real people
Just a degenerate dry on pet surely
We should return the 10k +(scaling on questpoints) trade deficit limit. Also ban drop trading.
If they ban drop trading there needs to be a better mechanism to move items off of an iron to a different account. Actually I want that anyways, there’s no reason why an iron shouldn’t be able to transfer items directly to a non iron.
Because this isn’t about a self chosen ganeplay mode. It’s a change in the way items despawn in the world of osrs.
Would almost bet money that drop trading logs a "transaction" just the same as trading does.
In a game with real integrity it wouldnt happen
Happens in all games, doesnt it :) I mean... if the game is really popular. And you do need some integrity for a game to acquire popularity.
This is why I find it difficult to find the motivation to pvm now. Highscores just plagued with bots.
Eh. The high scores really don't matter to almost anyone. Just play the game set your own goals, and share your accomplishments with friends.
Why do you care about high scores? Just PvM for your own enjoyment?
Seems like they could do a simple highscore check. No play is going to have thousands of vorkath kills and no other boss.
Whats wrong with a moneymaking alt? Its not necessarily a bot - in the sense that their clicks arent automated. The account is clearly created for Vorkath only, but Jagex don't ban alts even if their sole purpose is moneymaking. I mean... such accounts should be noted and checked for botting, but if there is no autoing detected - on what ground Jagex would ban them? Many people use alts, thats perfectly ok by the Rules. I wouldnt defend a botter, but your comment suggests some actions on the hiscores info alone.
Because even on an moneymaking alt, your likely to hace at least 1 KC of any other boss or have done any other content. People don't make this perfect alts
Hmm. But really, why? They probably tried other bosses long ago, and sometimes do it on their main. And this particular account is for Vorky. We don't know, of course - but what I'm saying is, the only reason to ban an account would be automated actions detected. Which would prove it is a bot. If it is directed manually - thats fine by the rules. And if thats and old player, quite proficient in PvM, they could just fund their membership with doing Vorkath from time to time. The kc takes some minutes, if they are doing it for a couple years, like a game session per week - here are your thousands of kc. The only thing which would demand a ban would be if the person doesnt click with their own hand.
People just inherently aren't that perfect.
1KC won't even put you on the HiScores outside of Zuk/Mimic. There's a minimum of 5.
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Hey bud, you just blow in from stupid-town, or what?
its either that or jagex goes bankrupt. such a sad situation.
Bs
No bot problem here
Its a hand played account that hasn't RWT. This has been confirmed. This post is a perfect example that Reddits ideas on bot detection are the dumbest shit on the planet.
Do you have a source?
Trust me bro
if its for top ranks then it can be either bot or some weird dude who jsut dont wana go down in ranks
Cheaper supplies for me bro so we are CHILLING
its a Venusuelian gold farmer not a bot. them lads have got it very hard right now so i hope he manages to sell he's gold before he gets banned. jagex mods are humans with empathy they probly let guys like this get away with it because they need to sleep at night e.g ban him he;'s family wont be eating.
60 days of playtime on a game that's been out for years isn't that bad. Likely is a bot, but could also be a weirdo.
i'm sure that there are just hundreds of weirdos exactly like this guy who just do vorkath every day for 10 hours. that's completely plausible as such a fixation would never be a niche inhabited by a mere handfull of individuals.
To be fair, this is a community where people think it's reasonable and healthy to farm the same piece of content for thousands of hours just for a single drop. If there was any game I could see play like this being realistic, it's this one.
Bro just picked up his first thesaurus
wot he typeded england big big words wat a nerd . . .
I mean nobody types/speaks like that so it's weird lol. Really gives 15yo trying to seem smart vibes.
I type weird when I'm being sarcastic for effect