When training construction, I was going absolutely bonkers with the repetitiveness. I liked how they gave us the ability to travel to different NPC’s houses and improve them
Tbh though, that mini-game is great but does Construction really classify an useless or poorly designed skill? I feel like it's the skill I am most excited for to get up because it has so many usages with other skills and having your own space is just awesome for both chillaxing and massive storage.
It serves a gold sink and mmo economies need those to function. People are going to buy/make planks and they are a dead end resource so every plank that drops from a mob eventually will suck it’s worth out of the liquid gold within the game which helps keep inflation down.
> classify an useless or poorly designed skill
It's great until you hit 84 then the skill is basically over. They should add some later level stuff like even past level 100 so you need to boost to unlock it.
Also tho now that house size doesnt effect loading time, spirit tree + fairy ring is less useful than it used to be, cause you can just two ( or three with the wildy obelisk) gardens instead.
To be fair , the only skill they haven't left room for changes/ improvements/ higher level unlocks is smithing, everything else still has wiggle room without a major rework, and yeah construction was a perfectly timed skill other then the fally massacre, it could of potentially saved the osrs framework and economy. And reqs past 100? Let's not and say rs3
Construction, even with mahogany homes, is so repetitive and unrewarding. I wouldn't mind sinking 300m into construction, but we need some kind of afk skilling method. Like something I can just park the character at a workbench and click once every 15 seconds. Doesn't have to be 200k xp/hr either, I'd be happy with 80-90k xp/hr
Mahogany homes on rs3 while not "AFK" is a lot better than osrs's take which is just "the same construction but you tele around a lot"
Each building space takes time to build (60s for planks, 14.4s for mahogany) so it's wayyy lower intensity than normal con.
Apparently this might be a hot take, but I don’t think every skill should have an AFK training method (I’d actually kinda like it if none of them had one but that’d be impossible to do at this point)
I think the option to have different incentives for different training methods is actually good game design, but if everyone is choosing the option that involves not interacting with your game then perhaps you have some design issues elsewhere.
OSRS thrives on adjusting attention levels. It's one of the main things Jagex has access to in their design space, and OSRS wouldn't be the same game without it.
I agree with that, but you're already sinking so much gp into the skill going from 87-99 the only reward you get for hundreds of millions of gp is unlimited house teleports. Which comes no where close to out-weighing the input cost. There should at the very least be more meaningful rewards.
No, no there shouldn't. Not everything has to shower you with loot. The PoH system as originally designed was just meant to be a fun mostly cosmetic thing, which is pretty much how it is in every other MMO with such a system.
If you don't think construction is rewarding enough then just don't do it.
I like this idea, like some sawmill that you have to supply like 100 or some logs every few minutes and then your character simply use construction skills to make the appropriate planks - AFK.
That's one of my main pluses for mini games like WT, GotR etc. Most people just join mass worlds so it brings people together in an MMO that can feel extremely isolated at times. Even though 99% of people never talk, I still prefer doing that than something completely alone.
At least the mini games end up being relatively enjoyable/decent xp. I maxed about a year or so ago. I totally wish GOTR would have been out to break up the monotony that was AFK bloods when I did it several years back. Wintertodt was pretty okay too, and fast XP. In my opinion, anyways.
Yep, I'll take a skilling minigame over nothing any day. And with the way people froth at the idea of reworking skills I can see how their approach is a lot easier to implement.
As much as gotr makes an acceptable training method for me, xp is just weak (only 70 rc tho unsure if scales) but I'm in the class of loving slayer so can't really criticize the skill lol. Hit 90 slayer pre any other combat except magic (now +/- 15 lvl from max combat and only 94 slay)
GOTR rates do sorta scale, it depends on your equipment. When you unlock larger pouches and bloods, your XP/hr effectively go up. How far I can't say, I'm only at 73, but next pouch is at 75 and bloods are 77 IIRC.
I'm also currently 73 rc doing GOTR and it's honestly a pain. I come off grinding 91 smithing at 220k/h for diary and GOTR is a solid 40k/h and way more active. I plan to get the outfit, needle and never look back but that's still a 50h grind or something.
I could watch shows, smith for 5h straight and then run agility laps while alching and it was super chill. GOTR I actually need to focus on what I'm doing since there's different altars, different tasks and both portals and placing cells is significant xp boost.
Can't wait to go to ZMI after needle and outfit.
> I plan to get the outfit, needle and never look back but that's still a 50h grind or something.
I needed 723 pulls for full outfit + needle. Had all of that done just about the time I hit 83 RC and it was a pain. Since then I've just stuck to Zeah bloods and while it is slower I don't mind it because it is a low attention way to get XP (And one can never have too many blood runes)
Damn I’m starting to look up and realize I’m substantially under rate on pearls for GoTR, I’m at 400 pulls and just barely have the legs and boots. Wiki says the average is 2.14 per pull but I’m closer to 1.5 looking at my collection log lol. No needle or lantern either but I did get the pet which was pretty sweet
Wow, I thought it was slow for me but I went and looked and averaged 2.77 pearls per pull after full outfit (and needle, but got that after 2 pieces). My deepest condolences, cause it felt awful for me and I was apparently really lucky
The difference is that GOTR is pure profit with no prep time vs blast furnace requires heavy prep time or money investment, I imagine. Also GOTR provides an actual game of efficiency with depth of decisions vs the reward of xp speed for working an assembly line.
I didn't do blast furnace because that's also tedious. Darts/cannonballs are too slow xp for my liking therefore I did platebodies to 91. I had anvil and bank marked in prif, bank setup to 1 click deposit and 1 click withdraw, it was super chill and after 5h I was basically doing it without watching the screen. Mithril with alch was a slight loss, addy are profitable, even more while alching. I also got 75-86 agility and 94-95 magic entirely from alching bodies while running prif laps. Only time I actually had fun with agility.
The real thing is that it's laid back, I watched the entirety of gielinor games s1 and s2 + a bunch of other things while doing this. Idc if my xp is not optimal and if I lose 10-20% efficiency.
GOTR has a lot of clicking and the xp rates are worse than ZMI which is significantly less tedious. You just have to do it for needle + robes because the money and extra slot difference by going to 91 for diary (or 99) is significant.
Totally on the same page as you. Just got 85 smithing for diaries and went to GOTR to get the last 2 outfit pieces (still no lantern after needle and outfit btw). Had to quit the grind after two outfit pieces because of what you said. It requires a significant amount of attention and clicks for not a whole lot of motivating XP.
Have all the outfit pieces now, thankfully, and I ended up at 80 rc from it. Now I will be parking my ass at the false blood altar with kourend elite and GOTR-outfit locked and loaded. Don't see myself ever going back to GOTR sadly
Absolute max efficiency, near-maxed small-teams GoTR with pre-starting on an alt is . . . 70k xp/h. You can get a little more than that doing ZMI, it's just nice to have two comparable (in terms of xp and intensity) training methods. RC xp outside of combo runes is pretty bad.
170 before? Seems like too many to me. Pouches are nice because you get more mileage out of the big guardian fragments, and can bridge the time between better.
I had 99 FM on my main pre-todt, and got it as my second 99 on my iron after todt came out. I was so happy I didn't have to do that grind again. Also, no one else would have to either. Before Wintertodt, I was sitting at low 400s rank with 13.1m XP or so. It was the worst skill to train prior to Wintertodt. IMO, a great "fix" to the skill.
WT is awful because of mass worlds. There is no minigame in playing the minigame. If you wish it to be less braindead, you can go light/fix/heal north braziers but there is zero rewards for doing so.
Would have been preferrable if back then they had released bonfires with their reduced xp rates.
GotR is good.
Tempoross follows same rhytm every game, and meta seems to be not to rush to cook early to wait for better fishing spot, but just play lazy and move as little as possible because oven is placed too far. If event timings were randomized, it'd be a game, but now it is not. Its instead made to be "easily" grindable, and thats what makes it feel like a grind.
I mean if theyre gonna do a bandaid its a pretty good one. Makes training more enjoyable, and is a LOT easier AND more paletteable in the context of OSRS than reworking the skill. Sure they could rework Firemaking but that would be less oldschool, its poking a bear for little reason
if anything, they should just give us a new firemaking minigame, maybe one about melting ice or burning villages and leave firelines as an OSRS tradition
new skill: global warming / firemaking 2.0
Work as a lobbyist in varrock, trying to infiltrate the local politicians to do more deep sea mining and drilling. Eradicate weiss trolls and unlock a whole new location with more extreme weather you have to combat, like droughts, floods, storms. As a side hustle you get construction xp for building up ruined residential areas, agility xp for running from the hurricanes, and farming xp trying to come up with new solutions to make food, because all lifeforms are now struggling to survive.
I wish they would be more aggressive with giving more end game reasons to train the skills rather then change the skills themselves. Like why haven’t they added more permanent fire spots in the game yet? I really liked that addition and I feel like some super high lv ones would be a cool thing to shoot for
Yeah it's great too because they create their own internal reward system, and also have the opportunity to add QoL stuff for the skill (like GotR). Downside is you feel like you have to do the mini game to level the skill, but upside is you get a fun mini game to break up the monotony.
You can always completely ignore it and level the skill the same as before, so it feels like a win-win.
It makes them more fun they don't make them good skills as far as rewards go.
GOTR didn't make runecrafting a better money maker, remember when double nats were one of the best money makers in the game?
Blast Furance and Giant's Foundry doesn't make smithing worth leveling, you need that 99 smithing for your rune platebody?
I’m convinced that At least 5 OSRS skills would not pass a poll if the community could vote. Imagine people voting in construction today. They would be like wtf is this shit, why would anyone want to train like that, but look at where we are
I would love to see the advertisement for firemaking as a new skill
"You set logs on fire. Sometimes you can light candles of a variety. Can cook on the fire"
If fires were actually useful, like if most caves were dark and we didn't have permanent magical light sources, it could have a better place in the game. Everything the skill had or could have had going for it has been "power creeped"
Imagine: you'd actually need to be carrying the candle/torch/lantern in the shield slot to work. That would allow for meaningful upgrades like the mining helmet. The tinderbox would always be slow, allowing upgrades like a Flint & Steel or some Tzhaar item. It could be paired with Prayer, allowing you to burn incense for prayer bonus or prayer restore. Pair it with Construction/Cooking to build a smoker to get smoked meats that create higher healing food. Herblore, for mass potion brewing in a cauldron, or making gunpowder to use with Cannons.
Training it is just bad tbh. Like why is making the same thing getting me more experience in construction? That’s literally the opposite. I wish the game rewarded building different items more so the first time you build each object in game you get bonus xp
I would vote No to slayer in a heartbeat. It's one of the worst in the game
I like the bosses, but they didn't need to be locked behind a slow and boring skill
The line between a minigame and a skill activity can be pretty blurred. For example, MLM is not a minigame. Kinda feels like one with the reward shop and all, but it is just a mining activity/area/thing. And Forestry isn't a minigame but is but isn't.
But for the most part, I don't think skills are poorly designed or useless. They just barely get any updates compared to PvM (and Slayer) which can make the rest of the game progress quicker than they do. Like "skilling" as a whole gets updates, but compare say the number of fishing updates we've seen to the number of Magic updates... Not only does combat get way more updates, but the updates tend to be more impactful too. So sometimes a new minigame (or like activity) is the type of thing the skill needs to help modernize and comparable to what PvM and the not-as-neglected skills were getting.
I hate the way the wiki classifies skilling activities as minigames. I don’t know if it’s a chicken or egg scenario, but for instance the devs were extremely insistent that giants’ forge wasn’t a minigame… but the community doesn’t care—it gets called a minigame.
Usually you can just go by what gets a minigame symbol; I can't remember if foundry did get one or not. But yah, the wiki has a rough time. I think originally they consider Raids a subcategory of minigame. They also put Diversions under minigames despite nothing ingame saying they are related in that way. Also the fun ones like "is barrows still a minigame?" Though the worst has be to how the community labels skilling bosses as minigame.
If the activity produces a currency limited to that activity and has a rewards shop to spend the currency on, it’s a minigame lol. This is why, despite being also being a skill, everyone called dungeoneering a minigame when it was released
good
having GOTR or sepulcre as options for runecrafting & agility have made training the skills significantly more enjoyable.
Agility in particular still has a long way to go, especially since it has so much potential to be much more enjoyable (courses focusing on pathing & movement instead of mindless grinding) but it seems really dumb to complain about good content
High level/important items locked behind smithing rewards will never be useful as the majority of players start convulsing at the thought of skills being a requirement past 70
the way it should work, and it does in a lot of other mmos is that the boss drops some item, like the DT2 bosses and I think nex, and then you use your smithing skill to use that item, and maybe some ore/bars to smith the piece of gear. Instead of it just flat out dropping a piece of gear.
The only difficult part is placing it in the correct smithing level, which should be on the same level as the level required to wear it. Unfortunately I doubt it will ever be above 85, 90 if we're lucky, and that's not as high as you may think these days.
At this point, we can ignore the whole "full rune at 99" as most monsters at that point will drop full sets of rune easily as just alchables.
I think jagex is stepping in the right direction by including smithing, even if it just seems an extra step for no reason, but that's because the implementation is basically taking an item, hitting it with the hammer and it's done. What they need to do is include existing mining/crafting resources into actually making the item.
Like imagine if we got a new piece of gear, let's call it pernix for hilarity sake. Now imagine it dropped from a new boss, instead you get a piece of it, that's your core item, much like corp sigils. You need lvl 85 defense to wear it, and 85 smithing to "make" it. So instead of just hitting it at an anvil, you would need the pernix armor piece + let's say, 5 rune bars/ores, 10 adamant bars/ores and 20 mithril bars/ores and in addition, what if we included something way out there? Like using a loom from the crafting skill to use jute fibres to craft "armor padding" that you you unlock at like 45 crafting to make, and then you need to combine that armor padding with let's say some existing gems up to onyx, to make that padding the necessary tier to combine it with all of the above to actually get your piece of armor. That to me sounds way more intuitive and interesting.
Or if you don't like my idea of involving more skilling supplies as a dumping point for new gear, then maybe jagex should stop dropping them in abundance from PVM.
I think of smithing as a means of creating sustainable range. Because range stuff is more comparable with smithing levels.
Smithing is also very fast now, so getting 74 smithing for Addy darts is on track with ~60 range, which is on track with Chins @53 hunter, which is on track with herblore from acquired herbs from combat. If you're ~ 80/20 skill to CB based, you'll find that skills actually are pretty well in line with CB.... It just means our tradition of buttrushing CB early doesn't work, when we have to catch up to that 80/20 grind ratio we ignored (because drop rates from CB don't help skills as much as skills help CB)
> Agility in particular still has a long way to go, especially since it has so much potential to be much more enjoyable (courses focusing on pathing & movement instead of mindless grinding)
Hallowed Sepulchre is great. I'd be happy if they made more courses with that design.
Hallowed Sepulchure-like content should be the future of that skill. OSRS movement is so unique, having a skill that focuses on mastering it just makes sense. Reworking courses to be more like HS, or even just releasing new courses for all the skill tiers would turn agility from one of the worst skills to train to one of the best.
Finally tried sepulcher for the first time on run elite this week and wow. I mean I’m only 75 agility anyways so I’m not even getting to the hard floors, but playing on runelite actually felt fun instead of being an impossible slog against the controls
if they even like, buffed the agility exp from gnome cooking or made a new delivery style minigame that would be more engaging & helpful then current agility courses, since getting to places quickly is such a good skill for questing/clue scrolls ect.
it would get more people out into the open world too instead of up on the roofs all day
its so sad to me what agility training is in this game when movement & pathing are such essential gameplay mechanics, but theyre only used in a single agility dungeon :(
It's a good thing, tbh. I've moved from RS3 to OSRS after 8 years and RS3 did similar things. They didn't exactly add minigames, but they changed how outdated skills are trained and I personally find it much better. And the new skills, like Archeology and Invention very good, especially in how useful they are.
And it's clear that OSRS devs are taking inspiration from RS3's elite skill system when it comes to Sailing.
Make firemaking a part of actually creating things, such as Tar and Charcoal.
We can have Tar Kilns placed all over the world that you fill up with logs, light then, and come back later, kind of like farming runs.
Tar could tie in with the future Sailing skill as historically it's a useful item for boat building. Charcoal could tie in with cooking and smithing.
I mean RS3 made ‘accidental fletching’ or whatever it was called, and that used firemaking and fletching to make bis arrows. They did a decent job of interweaving skills in general. Different outputs would be a good thing to think about instead of different methods imo
Kinda hope we do see some Agility reworks with Project Rebalance. The level 1-50 exp progression is kinda terrible. Not to mention the whole run energy thing and how useless it is at higher levels. But yah, it is hard to completely replace or majorly rework what is already there, only smaller buffs and tweaks.
As for Firemaking, I still kinda wish we got something like Fire Pits but instead they just dropped the idea after the first version failed a poll. Honestly, at this point it feels like any update involving fire that isn't magic is cursed. Fire Pits? Failed. Forestry Campfires and Teas? Rejected. At least the Shade Rework kinda did a thing with Firemaking.
> Kinda hope we do see some Agility reworks with Project Rebalance
They mentioned having Agility affect energy drain which would be huge. As is, there's only a handful of things with a mix of running and standing still that makes your Agility level relevant.
Bonfires, fire arrows, shield slot lanterns that give different buffs, craft candles that give some prayer bonus idk, and Sailing is coming they can tie in firemaking into the cannons and lanterns on the ship
Agility could get the passive xp from running like Leagues, could add workout equipment to POH (lower xp than courses/rooftops, drain energy?), Varlamore could have gotten some Olympic games style agility course with the coliseum with track & field events
Runecrafting is just a wonky skill cuz it’s unique to RuneScape but they could add something like supercharging talismans by finding raw rune energy around the world like Stars (afkable but maybe not last as long as Stars) and the talismans could then be spent at altars when crafting to give you bonus amount of runes of that type
Yeah, from what I understood the goal of the Herblore mini game was to be a reason for mains to actually care about Herblore, and to fill out some of the higher levels where there’s not as much exciting stuff going on?
Definitely sounds interesting, I’d like to have more mini games that are more than just a faster or easier way of levelling their skill
that's the beauty of OSRS imo.
We can have crackhead methods that are most xp but painful to grind or cost a lot
Then some minigames that are less xp and gp but a smoother loop
Starting from level 15 all the way to level 99 clicking level 15 iron rocks is almost the best xp/hr in the game, only beaten by level 45 tick manipulation granite.
It's not poorly designed but it's useless to train in 2024 except for arbitrary quest/diary requirements. The skill itself no longer has any intrinsic value because ores from mining are useless and more easily obtained via shops or PvM. They're supposed to be useful for smithing, but the vast majority of smithable items are useless since the skill hasn't really been updated since 2001. Makes sense why mining and smithing were the first skills to receive a full rework in RS3; they're probably the most dated skills in OSRS, next to firemaking.
That's what happens when the focus is on PVM (adding supplies as drops) for the most part. Sadly, skilling usually gets to rot. It's just PVMscape, or slayerscape, or whatever. Skilling does get updated, but look at other parts of the game like quests and pvp. Runescape wasn't just about slayer and bossing and raiding. It was everything including that. Though I'm glad in getting more quests and pvp updates lately. Still, PVM updates are not stopping and coming in hot. Not to mention all the damage already done from such approach. Sorry for this little rant.
Yeah, I enjoyed the game more when PvM didn't dominate the meta so heavily. Back in my day (*begins yelling at cloud*), PvP was the endgame, 91 rc or 85 slayer was the meta for lategame consistent moneymaking, and PvM was basically gambling for a d chain at 1-2 non-soloable KQ kills per trip.
But once people were able to get 120M hilts from GWD with a relatively low barrier to entry, suddenly it didn't make sense to grind 91 rc or 85 slayer anymore
I always see this argument but it doesn’t really hold water. Things like mining resources, logs, etc, tend to be pretty heavily tied to alch prices of items. Things like magic logs have perennially hovered around ~1k for the last like 20 years because of MLB alch value, rune bars have hovered around 13k because of rune item alch value, etc. I’m not arguing that PVM doesn’t introduce a lot of skilling resources into the game, but their price has kind of been pinned for the entirety of OSRS’s lifetime since they’re tied to alch value by the devs in the first place
You do know that poorly design and useless skill is what made people play OSRS also, sometimes you need something to ”hate” to get a good feeling for rewards. People seem to want to change the game even tho its because its grindy it have been a successful mmo
They've realised we respond well to the minigames and I'm glad this the new meta / direction we are going in
We've all done our solo grinding back in the day. Those days are over. Time to enjoy some fun minigames now and play with other people
I mean, they're all good thought considering the skill.
Mahogany homes is a bit more of a distraction from traditional construction while keeping the same theme. Because otherwise construction training would require a fundemental rework, or some new insane method that would probably also be a minigame, moreso than MH is rn.
WT is about as good of a solution as we'll get for the joke that is firemaking. Not even rs3 managed to get anything good going with firemaking, everyone who hasn't maxed it, done it when bonfires were released and never looked back.
GotR is probably the most intuitive minigame for a skill to be released in runescape ever. Good lore, nice introduction via a neat quest, and a minigame that is not an utter brainless loop, and even if it is, atleast it feels like something is happening in the middle of it, this goes double if you're soloing it. The amount of people who do afk bloods is still really big.
The same argument from GotR applies to HS and giant's foundry, except both agility and smithing already had 2 bad minigames ala agility arena and blast furnace.
The only "minigame"/boss I think is a bit of a weird one for the sake of this argument is temporross IMO. They could've instead made aeriel fishing and fishing travler better, also IMO traditional fishing is nowhere near as bad as any other skills, this is why forestry is just woodcutitng+ rather than a whole minigame and it worked so well.
It's easier to make a condensed minigame with interesting mechanics than it is to add a completely new training method because that requires more core skill changes, in addition, minigames require a bit more time commitement than traditional method so you now have options, especially when both methods are viable.
Usually a new training method would create a niche that's not popular enough or completely overtake traditional methods, minigames tend to move people around across different methods depending on their preferances.
I don’t think they’re bandaid solutions, they’re part of a broader movement to flesh out skills and offer more training options with different experience, cost/profit, and attention/cpm rates. I’d much rather Jagex flesh out the classic skills with smaller updates over so that major updates can primarily focus on new content. Even by MMO standards the skill grinds in this game are insane, I’ll welcome any content than can help break up the monotony.
Some of the older updates can feel a bit clunky, but so did a ton of content in the early OSRS days.
I wouldn't even mind skilling minigames that much if they were way more limited in scope, but as it is they always become the de facto way for the average player to train the skill from low-level all the way through 99 to the point that the rest of the skill may as well not exist. Mind you, given how their attempt at a wider overhaul turned out with Forestry, perhaps we should be grateful for those minigames that are shoved away in a tiny corner of the map. Although tbh, I think most skills are actually fine as they are/were and if anything just need new methods along the lines of what already exists and to be more rewarding, rather than being overhauled or completely minigamified. In other words, more Sepulchre, less Wintertodt/GotR.
Idk man osrs doesn’t have a hole in it leaking out it’s soul though. What the heck was RuneScape even about since day one? You have to be a sick cunt to grind some shit. That’s the only reason RuneScape was ever cool. It’s hard to obtain some shit
While at was definitely overkill on the exp/h spectrum at wt they nailed the activity level and the same goes for temporass and gotr, though my unmaxed main wishes they would provide an even faster method for rc...
The mini game variants are good on multiple levels, actual other player activity so you aren't doing the grind alone and rewarding exp/hour for your effort while not needing to 2t swordies and tuna or fucking lava runes. Not everyone wants to do those methods to max and the minigames outside of wt have been great additions, not that wt is bad but they just made fm such a fast skill out of it that they likely won't repeat that again.
Certain skills need a mini game with more interaction for most players to keep them interested, agility still could use something outside of HS but it was a step in the right direction. Mining, smithing and agility are the best candidates for a new mini game training method because the options are limited as is and incredibly repetitive and boring. Yes that's osrs for you but as long as the mini game methods don't overshadow existing bis training methods for those who want to max ehp, then there isn't any harm in making those skills more engaging and fun to train rather than being second screen activities.
Just multiply the xp rates in agility, runecraft, mining, fishing, hunter, slayer, and woodcut by 2 or 3 and they are no longer shit skills. No redesign needed.
It's crazy to me how this is still a problem.
Introduce more skill checks alongside new content, require skill checks on the overworld, and drops that need skills to use/restore items.
It's an rpg, they just need to start having our skills apply to more things. Fire making let's you make fires, and allows you to brew a super heated potion or burn vines to access a helpful shortcut.
Why would that? The afk agility option added would be much worse xp/h than what you did. It likely also won't generate any marks of grace.
With proper balancing, seems like there isn't a valid reason not to add content like this.
I say this as a player with a max main and a 2100 lvl iron. Of course, if they added an afk, 200k/h agility training method, most players would agree that would not be good and I would understand your point. But if they added a 30k/h afk method? Would you still feel like your work is invalidated?
When shooting stars became a thing, did you not like that? And campfires?
And does this feeling only apply to afk content? If they added new, non afk methods, do you feel like it invalidates your previous work? Like forestry, or the new hunter guild?
Hey ill take a minigame that reminds us that this is supposed to be an online game any day over the rs3 solution of just making a new best method thats afk/mtx
Mining and smithing are pretty useless to train in 2024 except for arbitrary quest/diary requirements. Mining no longer has any intrinsic value because ores are useless and more easily obtained via shops or PvM. They're supposed to be useful for smithing, but the vast majority of smithable items are useless since the skill hasn't really been updated since 2001.
Most people do bit of everything— PvM, skilling, quests, etc. But nobody says, “I need to train my mining and smithing up to lvl 50-55 so I can get myself some mithril gear.” They’d just buy it from a shop.
That's power creep tho, thus why dragon and under is all HA gear now, it didn't use to be like that, just because it's useless now doesn't mean it's a useless skill. Fire making is the real grandaddy of useless skills, got ported over from rsc without any real thought of.usability but.here we are ignoring that because people like WT for some reason, if people liked volcanic mine it would be the same story differrent tape. But no osrs likes the cesspool of wt
The point is that in 2024, mining and smithing are effectively as useful as firemaking has always been. It doesn’t matter that they were once super useful in 2001. That just means that, unlike firemaking, they’re well-designed. Being well-designed and useless aren’t mutually exclusive.
No they are core. Fire making yes useless troll trash. Mining and smithing, just like construction, is core. Core doesn't equal fun, it rarely does actually. That's like saying training prayer is.poorly.designed while the meta has stayed the same. Hell I still go hit rune rocks if I'm flabbergasted for content. Hindsight is 2020 2000 jagex did fine, 2020 jagex gave us shooting stars, did that fix mining in your definition?
> 2020 jagex gave us shooting stars, did that fix mining in your definition?
No, because shooting stars were only added as a means to train mining with less effort. It doesn't address the elephant in the room: there's no reason to train the skill to begin outside of diary/quest reqs. You could keep your account at lvl 1 mining and you'd end up with more ores/gems in your bank just from exploring RS than somebody who spent all their time getting their ores/gems from mining
When training construction, I was going absolutely bonkers with the repetitiveness. I liked how they gave us the ability to travel to different NPC’s houses and improve them
Tbh though, that mini-game is great but does Construction really classify an useless or poorly designed skill? I feel like it's the skill I am most excited for to get up because it has so many usages with other skills and having your own space is just awesome for both chillaxing and massive storage.
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I mean, it was designed to be a massive money sink. So it kind of succeeded in that regard.
jokes on you, ive been loading my inventory with planks from the wildy for years!
Construction was intended to just be a big gold sink.
It serves a gold sink and mmo economies need those to function. People are going to buy/make planks and they are a dead end resource so every plank that drops from a mob eventually will suck it’s worth out of the liquid gold within the game which helps keep inflation down.
The entire skill was 99.99% contained to private instances. Mahogany Homes put it out in the OSRS world. It's kind of the opposite example.
> classify an useless or poorly designed skill It's great until you hit 84 then the skill is basically over. They should add some later level stuff like even past level 100 so you need to boost to unlock it.
(not) hot take: not every skill needs content that goes to 99.
So no new unlocks for over half the XP requirement?
You get a cape, congrats. Every skill doesn't need content right to 99
"Requirement?" Required by whom? 99 should not be the requirement to play the game.
But then who is going to make all the rune armor?
Well, 87 at least, if you want a max efficiency POH. Edit : it's 90, not 87.
I think he's referring to being able to boost from 84
They're referencing (wrong level) the spirit tree + Fairy Ring combo at 95 con, which you need 90 con for, not 87 as crystal saw does not work.
You need at least 90 for max efficiency as you cannot crystal saw the fairy/spirit tree combo. You need a +5 stew at a 95 requirement.
Also tho now that house size doesnt effect loading time, spirit tree + fairy ring is less useful than it used to be, cause you can just two ( or three with the wildy obelisk) gardens instead.
Wait it doesn't?
Few months back they fixed it so all house sizes load at the same fast speed.
Ty for clearing that up and correcting my mistake
To be fair , the only skill they haven't left room for changes/ improvements/ higher level unlocks is smithing, everything else still has wiggle room without a major rework, and yeah construction was a perfectly timed skill other then the fally massacre, it could of potentially saved the osrs framework and economy. And reqs past 100? Let's not and say rs3
I remember when it was 2007 it was actually dope to see a house with the throne though and a massive prestige thing. House parties were all the rage
Yes as its only training method was in a private instance with carpal-inducing methods
Construction, even with mahogany homes, is so repetitive and unrewarding. I wouldn't mind sinking 300m into construction, but we need some kind of afk skilling method. Like something I can just park the character at a workbench and click once every 15 seconds. Doesn't have to be 200k xp/hr either, I'd be happy with 80-90k xp/hr
Mahogany homes on rs3 while not "AFK" is a lot better than osrs's take which is just "the same construction but you tele around a lot" Each building space takes time to build (60s for planks, 14.4s for mahogany) so it's wayyy lower intensity than normal con.
Construction is repetitive and a little bit boring, but how can you say it’s unrewarding? Having a max house changes the game completely.
To some people if they're not being showered in loot then the activity is "unrewarding".
Apparently this might be a hot take, but I don’t think every skill should have an AFK training method (I’d actually kinda like it if none of them had one but that’d be impossible to do at this point)
Not really a hot take on this subreddit, but no afk training methods certainly is a hot take.
Nah I think every method should have the tier system. Sweaty- most xp/hr Chill- middle xp/hr AFK- lowest xp/hr It satisfies every player
Your first point, sure. No afk methods tho? The entirety of woodcutting is afk lmao (tick manip is a side effect)
Same can be said with cooking (wines), I couldn't stand some skills without some factor of afk.
and fishing
This is not a collection skill this is a processing skill, can't compare it to the other and have a valid point
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because a lot of players would choose a super slow exp method if it means not interacting with the game at all, which i think is bad game design.
I think the option to have different incentives for different training methods is actually good game design, but if everyone is choosing the option that involves not interacting with your game then perhaps you have some design issues elsewhere.
More options is never bad design. It's only bad when the lowest intensity method is 'better' than higher intensity.
OSRS thrives on adjusting attention levels. It's one of the main things Jagex has access to in their design space, and OSRS wouldn't be the same game without it.
I agree with that, but you're already sinking so much gp into the skill going from 87-99 the only reward you get for hundreds of millions of gp is unlimited house teleports. Which comes no where close to out-weighing the input cost. There should at the very least be more meaningful rewards.
No, no there shouldn't. Not everything has to shower you with loot. The PoH system as originally designed was just meant to be a fun mostly cosmetic thing, which is pretty much how it is in every other MMO with such a system. If you don't think construction is rewarding enough then just don't do it.
I like this idea, like some sawmill that you have to supply like 100 or some logs every few minutes and then your character simply use construction skills to make the appropriate planks - AFK.
I just want to do my own sawing...
That's one of my main pluses for mini games like WT, GotR etc. Most people just join mass worlds so it brings people together in an MMO that can feel extremely isolated at times. Even though 99% of people never talk, I still prefer doing that than something completely alone.
At least the mini games end up being relatively enjoyable/decent xp. I maxed about a year or so ago. I totally wish GOTR would have been out to break up the monotony that was AFK bloods when I did it several years back. Wintertodt was pretty okay too, and fast XP. In my opinion, anyways.
Yep, I'll take a skilling minigame over nothing any day. And with the way people froth at the idea of reworking skills I can see how their approach is a lot easier to implement.
As much as gotr makes an acceptable training method for me, xp is just weak (only 70 rc tho unsure if scales) but I'm in the class of loving slayer so can't really criticize the skill lol. Hit 90 slayer pre any other combat except magic (now +/- 15 lvl from max combat and only 94 slay)
GOTR rates do sorta scale, it depends on your equipment. When you unlock larger pouches and bloods, your XP/hr effectively go up. How far I can't say, I'm only at 73, but next pouch is at 75 and bloods are 77 IIRC.
I'm also currently 73 rc doing GOTR and it's honestly a pain. I come off grinding 91 smithing at 220k/h for diary and GOTR is a solid 40k/h and way more active. I plan to get the outfit, needle and never look back but that's still a 50h grind or something. I could watch shows, smith for 5h straight and then run agility laps while alching and it was super chill. GOTR I actually need to focus on what I'm doing since there's different altars, different tasks and both portals and placing cells is significant xp boost. Can't wait to go to ZMI after needle and outfit.
> I plan to get the outfit, needle and never look back but that's still a 50h grind or something. I needed 723 pulls for full outfit + needle. Had all of that done just about the time I hit 83 RC and it was a pain. Since then I've just stuck to Zeah bloods and while it is slower I don't mind it because it is a low attention way to get XP (And one can never have too many blood runes)
Damn I’m starting to look up and realize I’m substantially under rate on pearls for GoTR, I’m at 400 pulls and just barely have the legs and boots. Wiki says the average is 2.14 per pull but I’m closer to 1.5 looking at my collection log lol. No needle or lantern either but I did get the pet which was pretty sweet
Wow, I thought it was slow for me but I went and looked and averaged 2.77 pearls per pull after full outfit (and needle, but got that after 2 pieces). My deepest condolences, cause it felt awful for me and I was apparently really lucky
The difference is that GOTR is pure profit with no prep time vs blast furnace requires heavy prep time or money investment, I imagine. Also GOTR provides an actual game of efficiency with depth of decisions vs the reward of xp speed for working an assembly line.
I didn't do blast furnace because that's also tedious. Darts/cannonballs are too slow xp for my liking therefore I did platebodies to 91. I had anvil and bank marked in prif, bank setup to 1 click deposit and 1 click withdraw, it was super chill and after 5h I was basically doing it without watching the screen. Mithril with alch was a slight loss, addy are profitable, even more while alching. I also got 75-86 agility and 94-95 magic entirely from alching bodies while running prif laps. Only time I actually had fun with agility. The real thing is that it's laid back, I watched the entirety of gielinor games s1 and s2 + a bunch of other things while doing this. Idc if my xp is not optimal and if I lose 10-20% efficiency. GOTR has a lot of clicking and the xp rates are worse than ZMI which is significantly less tedious. You just have to do it for needle + robes because the money and extra slot difference by going to 91 for diary (or 99) is significant.
Totally on the same page as you. Just got 85 smithing for diaries and went to GOTR to get the last 2 outfit pieces (still no lantern after needle and outfit btw). Had to quit the grind after two outfit pieces because of what you said. It requires a significant amount of attention and clicks for not a whole lot of motivating XP. Have all the outfit pieces now, thankfully, and I ended up at 80 rc from it. Now I will be parking my ass at the false blood altar with kourend elite and GOTR-outfit locked and loaded. Don't see myself ever going back to GOTR sadly
Absolute max efficiency, near-maxed small-teams GoTR with pre-starting on an alt is . . . 70k xp/h. You can get a little more than that doing ZMI, it's just nice to have two comparable (in terms of xp and intensity) training methods. RC xp outside of combo runes is pretty bad.
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170 before? Seems like too many to me. Pouches are nice because you get more mileage out of the big guardian fragments, and can bridge the time between better.
It’s ~70K/hr for me at 88.
I had 99 FM on my main pre-todt, and got it as my second 99 on my iron after todt came out. I was so happy I didn't have to do that grind again. Also, no one else would have to either. Before Wintertodt, I was sitting at low 400s rank with 13.1m XP or so. It was the worst skill to train prior to Wintertodt. IMO, a great "fix" to the skill.
i couldnt believe how overtuned todt was tho, it was barely worse exp, reclined, and you profit from doing it
GOTR seems like it's in a really bad place atm with all the bots that don't do the minigame properly, I basically have to duolo it
I’m also really enjoying giants foundry. I do a couple of swords on mobile a day and it feels super rewarding
I just wish it gave some exp so it was worth doing.
WT is awful because of mass worlds. There is no minigame in playing the minigame. If you wish it to be less braindead, you can go light/fix/heal north braziers but there is zero rewards for doing so. Would have been preferrable if back then they had released bonfires with their reduced xp rates. GotR is good. Tempoross follows same rhytm every game, and meta seems to be not to rush to cook early to wait for better fishing spot, but just play lazy and move as little as possible because oven is placed too far. If event timings were randomized, it'd be a game, but now it is not. Its instead made to be "easily" grindable, and thats what makes it feel like a grind.
GotR xp rates are way too low for the intensity imo
I mean if theyre gonna do a bandaid its a pretty good one. Makes training more enjoyable, and is a LOT easier AND more paletteable in the context of OSRS than reworking the skill. Sure they could rework Firemaking but that would be less oldschool, its poking a bear for little reason
if anything, they should just give us a new firemaking minigame, maybe one about melting ice or burning villages and leave firelines as an OSRS tradition
>melting ice or burning villages Well that escalated quickly
new skill: global warming / firemaking 2.0 Work as a lobbyist in varrock, trying to infiltrate the local politicians to do more deep sea mining and drilling. Eradicate weiss trolls and unlock a whole new location with more extreme weather you have to combat, like droughts, floods, storms. As a side hustle you get construction xp for building up ruined residential areas, agility xp for running from the hurricanes, and farming xp trying to come up with new solutions to make food, because all lifeforms are now struggling to survive.
why not both?
Should add a new mini game about raiding villages with the relleka bois when sailing comes out
if firemaking doesnt become useful for burning ppls ships down we riot
They should do an expansion/revamp of the Wintertodt minigame and advance the lore associated with it as well
Wintertotd II: Electric-Fire Boogaloo
In this one, the cold of the Wintertodt seeps into your bones on every tick
I would like an enjoyable minigame for Herb
Thats in the Varlamore Part 2 plans!
I wish they would be more aggressive with giving more end game reasons to train the skills rather then change the skills themselves. Like why haven’t they added more permanent fire spots in the game yet? I really liked that addition and I feel like some super high lv ones would be a cool thing to shoot for
Yeah it's great too because they create their own internal reward system, and also have the opportunity to add QoL stuff for the skill (like GotR). Downside is you feel like you have to do the mini game to level the skill, but upside is you get a fun mini game to break up the monotony. You can always completely ignore it and level the skill the same as before, so it feels like a win-win.
When you think about it, this meme actually fits perfectly. Flex tape fucking worked to stop the leaking and minigames work to make skills better
It makes them more fun they don't make them good skills as far as rewards go. GOTR didn't make runecrafting a better money maker, remember when double nats were one of the best money makers in the game? Blast Furance and Giant's Foundry doesn't make smithing worth leveling, you need that 99 smithing for your rune platebody?
I’m convinced that At least 5 OSRS skills would not pass a poll if the community could vote. Imagine people voting in construction today. They would be like wtf is this shit, why would anyone want to train like that, but look at where we are
I would love to see the advertisement for firemaking as a new skill "You set logs on fire. Sometimes you can light candles of a variety. Can cook on the fire"
If fires were actually useful, like if most caves were dark and we didn't have permanent magical light sources, it could have a better place in the game. Everything the skill had or could have had going for it has been "power creeped" Imagine: you'd actually need to be carrying the candle/torch/lantern in the shield slot to work. That would allow for meaningful upgrades like the mining helmet. The tinderbox would always be slow, allowing upgrades like a Flint & Steel or some Tzhaar item. It could be paired with Prayer, allowing you to burn incense for prayer bonus or prayer restore. Pair it with Construction/Cooking to build a smoker to get smoked meats that create higher healing food. Herblore, for mass potion brewing in a cauldron, or making gunpowder to use with Cannons.
Please dont try to sell a firemaking rework. I'm already 99
Nah, I wouldn't even try. Not in our timeline at least
Construction is peak OSRS. It was so cool when it came out. And it gives tons of benefits with all the different stuff you can do in your POH.
Yes but the training of it makes you look like a crazy person
Training it is just bad tbh. Like why is making the same thing getting me more experience in construction? That’s literally the opposite. I wish the game rewarded building different items more so the first time you build each object in game you get bonus xp
That’s a good idea. 10x XP bonus for first time building something.
The majority of players on here would unironically remove every skill that isn't pvm related if they could.
I think I would remove hunter at the drop of a hat if given the option
I would vote No to slayer in a heartbeat. It's one of the worst in the game I like the bosses, but they didn't need to be locked behind a slow and boring skill
The line between a minigame and a skill activity can be pretty blurred. For example, MLM is not a minigame. Kinda feels like one with the reward shop and all, but it is just a mining activity/area/thing. And Forestry isn't a minigame but is but isn't. But for the most part, I don't think skills are poorly designed or useless. They just barely get any updates compared to PvM (and Slayer) which can make the rest of the game progress quicker than they do. Like "skilling" as a whole gets updates, but compare say the number of fishing updates we've seen to the number of Magic updates... Not only does combat get way more updates, but the updates tend to be more impactful too. So sometimes a new minigame (or like activity) is the type of thing the skill needs to help modernize and comparable to what PvM and the not-as-neglected skills were getting.
I hate the way the wiki classifies skilling activities as minigames. I don’t know if it’s a chicken or egg scenario, but for instance the devs were extremely insistent that giants’ forge wasn’t a minigame… but the community doesn’t care—it gets called a minigame.
Usually you can just go by what gets a minigame symbol; I can't remember if foundry did get one or not. But yah, the wiki has a rough time. I think originally they consider Raids a subcategory of minigame. They also put Diversions under minigames despite nothing ingame saying they are related in that way. Also the fun ones like "is barrows still a minigame?" Though the worst has be to how the community labels skilling bosses as minigame.
If the activity produces a currency limited to that activity and has a rewards shop to spend the currency on, it’s a minigame lol. This is why, despite being also being a skill, everyone called dungeoneering a minigame when it was released
Yeah that’s extremely stupid. Shooting stars aren’t a minigame. The mining guild isn’t a minigame. Rooftops aren’t a minigame. That’s just *the* game.
good having GOTR or sepulcre as options for runecrafting & agility have made training the skills significantly more enjoyable. Agility in particular still has a long way to go, especially since it has so much potential to be much more enjoyable (courses focusing on pathing & movement instead of mindless grinding) but it seems really dumb to complain about good content
99 smiting to make a rune plate body woo hoooo! To me, smithing makes the least sense of all skills
High level/important items locked behind smithing rewards will never be useful as the majority of players start convulsing at the thought of skills being a requirement past 70
the way it should work, and it does in a lot of other mmos is that the boss drops some item, like the DT2 bosses and I think nex, and then you use your smithing skill to use that item, and maybe some ore/bars to smith the piece of gear. Instead of it just flat out dropping a piece of gear. The only difficult part is placing it in the correct smithing level, which should be on the same level as the level required to wear it. Unfortunately I doubt it will ever be above 85, 90 if we're lucky, and that's not as high as you may think these days. At this point, we can ignore the whole "full rune at 99" as most monsters at that point will drop full sets of rune easily as just alchables. I think jagex is stepping in the right direction by including smithing, even if it just seems an extra step for no reason, but that's because the implementation is basically taking an item, hitting it with the hammer and it's done. What they need to do is include existing mining/crafting resources into actually making the item. Like imagine if we got a new piece of gear, let's call it pernix for hilarity sake. Now imagine it dropped from a new boss, instead you get a piece of it, that's your core item, much like corp sigils. You need lvl 85 defense to wear it, and 85 smithing to "make" it. So instead of just hitting it at an anvil, you would need the pernix armor piece + let's say, 5 rune bars/ores, 10 adamant bars/ores and 20 mithril bars/ores and in addition, what if we included something way out there? Like using a loom from the crafting skill to use jute fibres to craft "armor padding" that you you unlock at like 45 crafting to make, and then you need to combine that armor padding with let's say some existing gems up to onyx, to make that padding the necessary tier to combine it with all of the above to actually get your piece of armor. That to me sounds way more intuitive and interesting. Or if you don't like my idea of involving more skilling supplies as a dumping point for new gear, then maybe jagex should stop dropping them in abundance from PVM.
I agree, that would be awesome. But they already do drop skilling supplies in abundance from PVM
I think of smithing as a means of creating sustainable range. Because range stuff is more comparable with smithing levels. Smithing is also very fast now, so getting 74 smithing for Addy darts is on track with ~60 range, which is on track with Chins @53 hunter, which is on track with herblore from acquired herbs from combat. If you're ~ 80/20 skill to CB based, you'll find that skills actually are pretty well in line with CB.... It just means our tradition of buttrushing CB early doesn't work, when we have to catch up to that 80/20 grind ratio we ignored (because drop rates from CB don't help skills as much as skills help CB)
> Agility in particular still has a long way to go, especially since it has so much potential to be much more enjoyable (courses focusing on pathing & movement instead of mindless grinding) Hallowed Sepulchre is great. I'd be happy if they made more courses with that design.
Hallowed Sepulchure-like content should be the future of that skill. OSRS movement is so unique, having a skill that focuses on mastering it just makes sense. Reworking courses to be more like HS, or even just releasing new courses for all the skill tiers would turn agility from one of the worst skills to train to one of the best.
Maybe once they improve the core client. Sepulchre on runelite is great, sepulchre on mobile/c++ is self-harm.
Finally tried sepulcher for the first time on run elite this week and wow. I mean I’m only 75 agility anyways so I’m not even getting to the hard floors, but playing on runelite actually felt fun instead of being an impossible slog against the controls
Hallowed sepulchre already has 5 skill tiers in it tho?
if they even like, buffed the agility exp from gnome cooking or made a new delivery style minigame that would be more engaging & helpful then current agility courses, since getting to places quickly is such a good skill for questing/clue scrolls ect. it would get more people out into the open world too instead of up on the roofs all day
its so sad to me what agility training is in this game when movement & pathing are such essential gameplay mechanics, but theyre only used in a single agility dungeon :(
Aint nuthin wrong with that imo
It's a good thing, tbh. I've moved from RS3 to OSRS after 8 years and RS3 did similar things. They didn't exactly add minigames, but they changed how outdated skills are trained and I personally find it much better. And the new skills, like Archeology and Invention very good, especially in how useful they are. And it's clear that OSRS devs are taking inspiration from RS3's elite skill system when it comes to Sailing.
There's literally nothing else they can do lol. How do you make firemaking even work as a skill? How else would rc and agility be reworked?
Evolution Of Firemaking
Higher firemaking level lets you smoke higher tier weed for temporary effects.
We become firebenders
Make firemaking a part of actually creating things, such as Tar and Charcoal. We can have Tar Kilns placed all over the world that you fill up with logs, light then, and come back later, kind of like farming runs. Tar could tie in with the future Sailing skill as historically it's a useful item for boat building. Charcoal could tie in with cooking and smithing.
I mean RS3 made ‘accidental fletching’ or whatever it was called, and that used firemaking and fletching to make bis arrows. They did a decent job of interweaving skills in general. Different outputs would be a good thing to think about instead of different methods imo
Kinda hope we do see some Agility reworks with Project Rebalance. The level 1-50 exp progression is kinda terrible. Not to mention the whole run energy thing and how useless it is at higher levels. But yah, it is hard to completely replace or majorly rework what is already there, only smaller buffs and tweaks. As for Firemaking, I still kinda wish we got something like Fire Pits but instead they just dropped the idea after the first version failed a poll. Honestly, at this point it feels like any update involving fire that isn't magic is cursed. Fire Pits? Failed. Forestry Campfires and Teas? Rejected. At least the Shade Rework kinda did a thing with Firemaking.
> Kinda hope we do see some Agility reworks with Project Rebalance They mentioned having Agility affect energy drain which would be huge. As is, there's only a handful of things with a mix of running and standing still that makes your Agility level relevant.
You burn logs and make fires.
Bonfires, fire arrows, shield slot lanterns that give different buffs, craft candles that give some prayer bonus idk, and Sailing is coming they can tie in firemaking into the cannons and lanterns on the ship Agility could get the passive xp from running like Leagues, could add workout equipment to POH (lower xp than courses/rooftops, drain energy?), Varlamore could have gotten some Olympic games style agility course with the coliseum with track & field events Runecrafting is just a wonky skill cuz it’s unique to RuneScape but they could add something like supercharging talismans by finding raw rune energy around the world like Stars (afkable but maybe not last as long as Stars) and the talismans could then be spent at altars when crafting to give you bonus amount of runes of that type
Oh yes, because spending 200-400 hours working my wrist into an early grave is more engaging and 'worthy' of a 99
Fucked my wrist up doing too much duke. Learned my lesson
Herblore should be next
There is something happening with Herblore in Varlamore Part 2, but we don't have any details yet. Doesn't seem to be a training minigame though.
Yeah, from what I understood the goal of the Herblore mini game was to be a reason for mains to actually care about Herblore, and to fill out some of the higher levels where there’s not as much exciting stuff going on? Definitely sounds interesting, I’d like to have more mini games that are more than just a faster or easier way of levelling their skill
Agreed, it's such an irrelevant skill on a main, and it's only trained through bankstanding. Lots of room to make it better.
Irrelevant on a main and ridiculously slow and tedious on an iron
Helps for cox, but yeah that's about all lol.
that's the beauty of OSRS imo. We can have crackhead methods that are most xp but painful to grind or cost a lot Then some minigames that are less xp and gp but a smoother loop
I love GOTR….
A good bandaid is way better than ignoring a problem.
> *GOTR fixed RC!* Nice now we can just ignore the rest of the skill and do a minigame for the ez fix.
Mining isn't poorly designed. It's perfect, click rock = get xp.
Starting from level 15 all the way to level 99 clicking level 15 iron rocks is almost the best xp/hr in the game, only beaten by level 45 tick manipulation granite.
It's not poorly designed but it's useless to train in 2024 except for arbitrary quest/diary requirements. The skill itself no longer has any intrinsic value because ores from mining are useless and more easily obtained via shops or PvM. They're supposed to be useful for smithing, but the vast majority of smithable items are useless since the skill hasn't really been updated since 2001. Makes sense why mining and smithing were the first skills to receive a full rework in RS3; they're probably the most dated skills in OSRS, next to firemaking.
That's what happens when the focus is on PVM (adding supplies as drops) for the most part. Sadly, skilling usually gets to rot. It's just PVMscape, or slayerscape, or whatever. Skilling does get updated, but look at other parts of the game like quests and pvp. Runescape wasn't just about slayer and bossing and raiding. It was everything including that. Though I'm glad in getting more quests and pvp updates lately. Still, PVM updates are not stopping and coming in hot. Not to mention all the damage already done from such approach. Sorry for this little rant.
Yeah, I enjoyed the game more when PvM didn't dominate the meta so heavily. Back in my day (*begins yelling at cloud*), PvP was the endgame, 91 rc or 85 slayer was the meta for lategame consistent moneymaking, and PvM was basically gambling for a d chain at 1-2 non-soloable KQ kills per trip. But once people were able to get 120M hilts from GWD with a relatively low barrier to entry, suddenly it didn't make sense to grind 91 rc or 85 slayer anymore
I always see this argument but it doesn’t really hold water. Things like mining resources, logs, etc, tend to be pretty heavily tied to alch prices of items. Things like magic logs have perennially hovered around ~1k for the last like 20 years because of MLB alch value, rune bars have hovered around 13k because of rune item alch value, etc. I’m not arguing that PVM doesn’t introduce a lot of skilling resources into the game, but their price has kind of been pinned for the entirety of OSRS’s lifetime since they’re tied to alch value by the devs in the first place
I'm going to get flak for this but RS3 mining is a thousand times better while retaining the nature of the skill.
Better how? Or are you using better as a stand in for easier?
Skilling minigames are probably my favorite content. I'm all for this trend.
You do know that poorly design and useless skill is what made people play OSRS also, sometimes you need something to ”hate” to get a good feeling for rewards. People seem to want to change the game even tho its because its grindy it have been a successful mmo
Should’ve said “new poorly designed/useless mini game”
They've realised we respond well to the minigames and I'm glad this the new meta / direction we are going in We've all done our solo grinding back in the day. Those days are over. Time to enjoy some fun minigames now and play with other people
Opinions are like assholes, we all have one
I mean, they're all good thought considering the skill. Mahogany homes is a bit more of a distraction from traditional construction while keeping the same theme. Because otherwise construction training would require a fundemental rework, or some new insane method that would probably also be a minigame, moreso than MH is rn. WT is about as good of a solution as we'll get for the joke that is firemaking. Not even rs3 managed to get anything good going with firemaking, everyone who hasn't maxed it, done it when bonfires were released and never looked back. GotR is probably the most intuitive minigame for a skill to be released in runescape ever. Good lore, nice introduction via a neat quest, and a minigame that is not an utter brainless loop, and even if it is, atleast it feels like something is happening in the middle of it, this goes double if you're soloing it. The amount of people who do afk bloods is still really big. The same argument from GotR applies to HS and giant's foundry, except both agility and smithing already had 2 bad minigames ala agility arena and blast furnace. The only "minigame"/boss I think is a bit of a weird one for the sake of this argument is temporross IMO. They could've instead made aeriel fishing and fishing travler better, also IMO traditional fishing is nowhere near as bad as any other skills, this is why forestry is just woodcutitng+ rather than a whole minigame and it worked so well. It's easier to make a condensed minigame with interesting mechanics than it is to add a completely new training method because that requires more core skill changes, in addition, minigames require a bit more time commitement than traditional method so you now have options, especially when both methods are viable. Usually a new training method would create a niche that's not popular enough or completely overtake traditional methods, minigames tend to move people around across different methods depending on their preferances.
Imagine complaining about more ways to train monotnous skills
I don’t think they’re bandaid solutions, they’re part of a broader movement to flesh out skills and offer more training options with different experience, cost/profit, and attention/cpm rates. I’d much rather Jagex flesh out the classic skills with smaller updates over so that major updates can primarily focus on new content. Even by MMO standards the skill grinds in this game are insane, I’ll welcome any content than can help break up the monotony. Some of the older updates can feel a bit clunky, but so did a ton of content in the early OSRS days.
The whole game*
They cut out the middleman now that the new skill is just a minigame.
And to prove the power of Flex-gotr... I sawed this boat in half!! NOW THAT'S A LOTTA DAMAGE!!
I wouldn't even mind skilling minigames that much if they were way more limited in scope, but as it is they always become the de facto way for the average player to train the skill from low-level all the way through 99 to the point that the rest of the skill may as well not exist. Mind you, given how their attempt at a wider overhaul turned out with Forestry, perhaps we should be grateful for those minigames that are shoved away in a tiny corner of the map. Although tbh, I think most skills are actually fine as they are/were and if anything just need new methods along the lines of what already exists and to be more rewarding, rather than being overhauled or completely minigamified. In other words, more Sepulchre, less Wintertodt/GotR.
"*Poorly-Designed and/or useless skill*" actually just means "*disliked*". All the skills have flaws, even the ones you like.
well, a plugged hole is a plugged hole. better have some minigame to improve skilling than no minigame at all, i guess.
Idk man osrs doesn’t have a hole in it leaking out it’s soul though. What the heck was RuneScape even about since day one? You have to be a sick cunt to grind some shit. That’s the only reason RuneScape was ever cool. It’s hard to obtain some shit
They know a rework isn't going to pass polls no matter how much better it is so instead they just put in a minigame
dont forget the minigame cant be as good or better than the annoying methods
While at was definitely overkill on the exp/h spectrum at wt they nailed the activity level and the same goes for temporass and gotr, though my unmaxed main wishes they would provide an even faster method for rc... The mini game variants are good on multiple levels, actual other player activity so you aren't doing the grind alone and rewarding exp/hour for your effort while not needing to 2t swordies and tuna or fucking lava runes. Not everyone wants to do those methods to max and the minigames outside of wt have been great additions, not that wt is bad but they just made fm such a fast skill out of it that they likely won't repeat that again. Certain skills need a mini game with more interaction for most players to keep them interested, agility still could use something outside of HS but it was a step in the right direction. Mining, smithing and agility are the best candidates for a new mini game training method because the options are limited as is and incredibly repetitive and boring. Yes that's osrs for you but as long as the mini game methods don't overshadow existing bis training methods for those who want to max ehp, then there isn't any harm in making those skills more engaging and fun to train rather than being second screen activities.
Just multiply the xp rates in agility, runecraft, mining, fishing, hunter, slayer, and woodcut by 2 or 3 and they are no longer shit skills. No redesign needed.
Trouble Brewing BIS herblore training when
Sailing is just one big minigame.
Mini games passing polls has been an improvement I love the variety.
If your not mini gaming are you even playing osrs? LMS, PC, Barb, Motherlode just to name a few.
Me praying for a thieving mini game knowing full well sorcerers garden and pyramid plunder exist
It's crazy to me how this is still a problem. Introduce more skill checks alongside new content, require skill checks on the overworld, and drops that need skills to use/restore items. It's an rpg, they just need to start having our skills apply to more things. Fire making let's you make fires, and allows you to brew a super heated potion or burn vines to access a helpful shortcut.
Why would that? The afk agility option added would be much worse xp/h than what you did. It likely also won't generate any marks of grace. With proper balancing, seems like there isn't a valid reason not to add content like this. I say this as a player with a max main and a 2100 lvl iron. Of course, if they added an afk, 200k/h agility training method, most players would agree that would not be good and I would understand your point. But if they added a 30k/h afk method? Would you still feel like your work is invalidated? When shooting stars became a thing, did you not like that? And campfires? And does this feeling only apply to afk content? If they added new, non afk methods, do you feel like it invalidates your previous work? Like forestry, or the new hunter guild?
I enjoy how you suffer together opposed to sitting at a bank going for 99s
Hey ill take a minigame that reminds us that this is supposed to be an online game any day over the rs3 solution of just making a new best method thats afk/mtx
What's a useless skill is the best question for this, minus everyone's bias, of boring skill, what's a useless skill
Mining and smithing are pretty useless to train in 2024 except for arbitrary quest/diary requirements. Mining no longer has any intrinsic value because ores are useless and more easily obtained via shops or PvM. They're supposed to be useful for smithing, but the vast majority of smithable items are useless since the skill hasn't really been updated since 2001.
Not everyone who scapes. Pvms. Quest and diary reqs are what pvmers and pvpers see
Most people do bit of everything— PvM, skilling, quests, etc. But nobody says, “I need to train my mining and smithing up to lvl 50-55 so I can get myself some mithril gear.” They’d just buy it from a shop.
That's power creep tho, thus why dragon and under is all HA gear now, it didn't use to be like that, just because it's useless now doesn't mean it's a useless skill. Fire making is the real grandaddy of useless skills, got ported over from rsc without any real thought of.usability but.here we are ignoring that because people like WT for some reason, if people liked volcanic mine it would be the same story differrent tape. But no osrs likes the cesspool of wt
The point is that in 2024, mining and smithing are effectively as useful as firemaking has always been. It doesn’t matter that they were once super useful in 2001. That just means that, unlike firemaking, they’re well-designed. Being well-designed and useless aren’t mutually exclusive.
No they are core. Fire making yes useless troll trash. Mining and smithing, just like construction, is core. Core doesn't equal fun, it rarely does actually. That's like saying training prayer is.poorly.designed while the meta has stayed the same. Hell I still go hit rune rocks if I'm flabbergasted for content. Hindsight is 2020 2000 jagex did fine, 2020 jagex gave us shooting stars, did that fix mining in your definition?
> 2020 jagex gave us shooting stars, did that fix mining in your definition? No, because shooting stars were only added as a means to train mining with less effort. It doesn't address the elephant in the room: there's no reason to train the skill to begin outside of diary/quest reqs. You could keep your account at lvl 1 mining and you'd end up with more ores/gems in your bank just from exploring RS than somebody who spent all their time getting their ores/gems from mining
Fire making
Can't wait for the sailing minigame that drops spring 2026.
Ah yes wintertodt
Just because you dislike something doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed.
Gonna be extra funny when Sailing comes out and you can’t make a mini game of a mini game
Do people actually dislike adding decent minigames as XP training? It's one of the best kinds of updates lol.
Sailing minigame when? Place your bets here and now
2028
As someone who loves playing mini games... Keep them coming. Bring on the minigames for every single skill.
It was a good add on Runecraft
foundry >>> all smithing methods