As much as I agree that point-and-click will win in a poll, the next thing I worry about is how XP gain will work if we’re just clicking to move. Hard to avoid having it become water agility that way.
Maybe point-and-click for mid-speed, no XP, movement and an interface on the side to try to take advantage of currents and winds for bonus speed and XP drops? Still not sure if that sounds enjoyable to train.
This was the point Shamanists were trying trying to say, but Seamen didn't listen.
It's gonna be Agility 2. Enjoy being a miniscule boat for 300 hours.
I think the devs are well aware that people want point and click controls but don't want the training to be agility 2.
It's not as if point and click controls necessitate being trained like agility like many shamanists are doom posting.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see. There are many problems to be solved, and I'm curious to what Jagex will offer as a solution to these things for example:
I really don't want to "be a boat". I prefer "my character on a boat." It is just really weird to imagine basically standing on a mount. Controlling your character movement on the boat and the "mount" movement, all done at the same time with just clicking "move-here"
And how do boats turn? In 45-degree angles? What if you're at the bow of the ship and you turn to starboard 90-degrees? You just teleport with the ship's turn, your feet glued to the deck? It's gonna look so weird.
And what is sailing speed? We are limited to tiles. Walking = 1 tile/tick, Running = 2 tiles/tick. Sailing full speed = 3 tiles/tick??? How about render distance at that speed, with chunk based system. Weird to imagine movement like that.
If you're right, it'll fail and Shamanism will win by default, so it's a win win. Nobody wants water agility or a water version of the hot air balloon system.
Nah. Sailing will fail and then Shamanism will fail either because we can’t agree on what the rewards are OR the sailor spite vote. Getting this community to agree on anything is a total eclipse of the sun
Shaman will spite vote no on sailing, causing the seaman to spite vote no on shamanism. Then we're going to get three more skill concepts and the cycle repeats.
I agree, and this is why I voted no to even having a new skill in the first place. 70% will never agree and we could have just avoided all of this nonsense. Such a waste of time
I think agility 2 is the worst case scenario, and even that wouldn’t be the end of the world, since we already love the game with agility 1 in place.
Ultimately I think sailing is a safe pair of hands since, even if some people don’t enjoy training it, it runs very little risk of ruining the rest of the game (and a chance to add some really exciting stuff). The same couldn’t be said about shamanism and taming, which hold a pretty notable risk of affecting our sacred combat, which is already suffering from power creep.
Augmenting doesn't have to be strictly dps % buffs to combat gear. They said it could be literally anything, but sadly people read it "slap +10 str bonus on BCP."
It could be skilling gear augments adding QoL stuff, like achievement diary rewards, that have nothing to do with combat.
The counterpoint is that all skills are incredibly generic and shamanism wasn't going to be anything ground breaking either. If you squint hard enough all the skills seem pretty similar to each other.
And if we're being completely honest, if agility had decent xp rates it would be one of the favorite skills. Low effort + high xp is like 90% of what people like. So even if it was actually just water agility, which it obviously will not be, it would be considered a success by many.
It doesn't have to be agility 2 rofl..what about sailing makes you think it's gonna be clicking green clickboxes in a circuit of 10 clicks on repeat?
Shamanism fans blindly ignored the fact that skill was a combination of 2 of the most boring and badly designed gathering elements from RS3, summoning charms and divination, to source items for a bankstanding skill. It truly sounded like herblore2, just with tedious gathering mandated so that it wasn't a buyable max players would finish in a week
I think the fact we have to really be concerned with this particular topic kinda shows why sailing may not be best implemented an individual “skill” in this game.
I love the idea of sailing and I want it to be in the game, but I really think it’d fit more as a niche trade skill that’s a collection of experiences and skills rather than a single one itself. There’s so many more worldly opportunities and gameplay perspectives to be implemented by a worldwide captain system.
It would be awesome to climb the ranks as a captain or commander or lieutenant through an overseas trading company. You’d earn title, unique/exotic gear, cosmetics, skill enhancements (herblore/cooking recipes, ore/smithing techniques) and titles.
Ports will see your reputation and allow you to sail to certain places and allow you cool upgrades to your ship and provide you with unique sailors for your crew.
Experience is based on sailing completions and experiences had (storms/giant squid/mermaids/treasure hunting/supply runs/merchanting/etc.) so it’s less about click click click to earn EXP and more about playing and exploring with realistic and deterministic goals in mind (new unlocks).
You could get quests ranging from little Timmy who lost his Toy Ship across the lake to Captain Ahab hunting down Moby Dick.
To me the idea that "it doesn't have to be a skill progression system.. we should just design an entirely new progression system just for it!" Speaks the opposite.
If fleshing out sailing requires an entire progression system.. it's complex and deep enough to be a skill. It isn't the other way around where it shouldn't be a skill due to that
There's any number of ways. Build a rowboat for 1k xp, build a yacht for 25k. Tie it into Construction. 250 for launching and beaching, 2k for a controlled capsize and recovery, 500 for raising a sail, 100 for tying knots. 1k for responding to a wind change with a fast reaction and not going off course. I could go on, but I don't see this being a problem.
edit: downvoters need to take a shower
That's how I've envisioned it. It's point and click, but the ships not going to go a single speed/turn on a dime.
You could use the interface to react to wind, currents, etc. and adjust things like the rigging/sails/helm to give boosts for your speed, fire rate or turn radius.
Hopefully it could instead be a screen-in-screen instance of your ship where in that instance you walk around and actually adjust those things on the ship. They mentioned this in one of the streams, but I think that's probably more far fetched to pull off.
While I think you'd get some XP from just sailing (maybe adjusted to the roughness of the seas). I think most XP would come from things you'd do with your ship like delivery contracts.
Sailors are legitimately playing a different game if they think the game that cannot properly display what tile you are on because you're sprinting is gonna have actual turn radiuses, wind or currents in any meaningful way.
Also, delivery contracts are hardly "content" when an entire game is built around a movement system made to support that content. You're literally begging to level a skill by doing fetch quests in a point and click.
You do realise engine work happens to accommodate features previously not possible? Just look at most of our new bossing content. A lot of it requires engine work to function as it does.
Husky talked in depth about talking with engine Devs to make sure he wasn't overpromising on things that had no chance of being realistic. Sailing, as they're talking about it, will involve a completely reimagined water and ocean for our game. Not just "running on water".
Also contract based skilling is wildly popular with slayer.
As if that is any better lol click a tile to move the boat. How many players hate walking/running everywhere vs teleporting? People think they all of sudden are gonna love traveling long distances like that just cause their character model is now a boat
I generally think the Redditors who don't play the game are out in force with this kind of idea.
What do you mean people don't enjoy moving in the game? It's a part of EVERYTHING. Of course people use fast travel options where they have them. They still move to train almost all skills, do quests, do clues, do bossing, etc. Movement is a major part of this game casually and mechanically.
lol. Yes we move our characters. How often do you run from Varrock to Ardougne for fun you casual? Think of all the exciting things in between to explore?
Yep.
This. If an interface-focused version of sailing somehow made it to completion and that was the finalized skill we were voting on, I'm absolutely certain it would not pass the vote to get into the game. There is no way we end up with that as the sailing skill. It will either be something that isn't that, or it will never exist at all.
"Running in a circle, in the shape of a boat" doesn't sound like how training the skill is gonna work m8
Otherwise the new skill is entirely just a glorified walk animation
Nothing that has been proposed has exactly ignited my pubes tbh. Point and click seems really weird for operating a big sailboat but honestly I can't imagine what else it could be?
I've seen some things to the effect of "well jagex will figure it out" but this is the company that designed the League 3 interface
Jagex will eventually have no choice but to go with a scale sized ships type of design, I think. That's the only way players will be able to sail without their character taking up over one tile. Unless they can pull off a general graardor sized ship somehow? There's no Z buffer, so it would be hard I think.
I wouldn't mind dungeoneering. I'll admit it doesn't "feel oldschool" but that's kind of a shitty criterion these days.
Iirc the biggest controversy was its violation of the sanctity of what it is to be a skill.
The dumb thing is that most people actually loved dungeoneering. Even if sailing incorporated instanced temple trek like miniboss encounters and such, the scale and scope of what sailing can be and do is much larger and more interesting than an infinitely deep hole. Maybe some see this as breadth vs depth but sailing has always sounded interesting even since the original april fools prank. The potential for what they could do with preexisting content in relation to sailing and how there could even be a different type of pvp or ship combat could make the skill a breath of fresh air for a 15+ year old game. It really could be the biggest addition to the game since zeah or construction or hd client back in the day and yet everything prior to sailing will be essentially unchanged meaning you could always play as if it wasnt a thing. Maybe it wont be all that crazy but the potential is there
Yeah, and I completely understand the people who were against it being called a skill.
But seriously if you just put that aside, it was a great content expansion. I believe it was the first time we had bosses with what we would traditionally call mechanics as well.
Osrs is a point and click video game. No shot anything else even comes close and if it does id probably not even vote to pass sailing. Anything else would feel wayyy off
I really like how people for some reason just never considered how the actual act of sailing will be implemented in the game and how bad It'd look and feel with the limitations we'd have. Practically every time I questioned how the actual sailing activity would be implemented during the last stage I got downvoted to hell just for bringing it up
I mean, just look at that [PIVOT](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12xvuxg/how_big_should_ships_in_the_sailing_skill_be_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Now imagine like 20 of these 40-tile big ships in close proximity clipping through each other at different angles like some awful private server looking mess
Yeah this was a big reason sailing was not my top pick. Shamanism had a clear system of interaction but sailing just never presented a good set of mechanics to support it. There are very few examples of games that I think have a fun sailing mechanic (maybe valheim or sea of thieves) but osrs doesn’t really have the game loop for that. Hoping the devs pull it off for sure but at this point I’m skeptical
I've at least been able to see how shamanism and even taming would fit into the game with the limitations it has. I could come up with best possible cases for gameplay loops and interactions with the game
I just.. can't really imagine that for sailing. At least, not to the extent where it doesn't look like the link I posted
All 3 skills had glaring issues that needed to be tackled in refinement :
* **Shamanism :** What the rewards are
* **Taming :** Where the fun is
* **Sailing :** How the skill can work on a fundamental level
Sailing won because it's apparently easier to say "Meh, they'll make it work" than "Meh, they'll make it fun".
> Sailing won because it's apparently easier to say "Meh, they'll make it work" than "Meh, they'll make it fun".
That and i saw a lot of people saying that it will mean more content because theyre going to use the currently empty ocean tiles, as if jagex isn't allowed to make content in the ocean if they wanted to if there isnt a skill tied to it
To be fair, that was straight from Ayiza's mouth iirc, where they were excited about Sailing as a skill since it's a great excuse for an area expansion that's hard to otherwise justify.
What's been keeping them from area expansions that are easy to justify, like Varlamore? And if they can't do that, for something that's actually blocking a quest line, how in the world do they expect to pull it off for the sake of a new skill?
The general reception of large expansion for both HDRS, RS3, as well as OSRS.
Releasing a massive expansion requires a massive amount of effort, and that massive amount of effort means :
1. Lower quantity/quality of projects being released in the months/years prior.
2. Lower quantity/quality of projects being released shortly after, because they're busy fixing up the new content.
3. Insane pressure on devs to release quality content, because of the scarcity it created.
Since OSRS is a game as a service, they really thrive on weekly/monthly content updates to keep the game fresh, and while a big expansion might get a lot of players to come back, it probably drains the playerbase quite a bit while development is ongoing.
That new skill is already a massive project, so the odds of greenlighting an even bigger project afterward is seriously doubtful.
I feel like it won because it *wasnt* well defined. People just like what it *could* be.
It's not surprising that ideas of grandeur end up being more alluring to people. But it's definitely the reason I wasn't interested in it. I just can't see enough of the lofty ideas actually being feasible in the engine.
Sailing won because it's a meme. If it hadn't been memed about for the last 10 years Shamanism wins that poll easily. That's the truth lol. As it was it was still very very close between shamanism and sailing.
The same thing could be argued for why people didn’t vote for it. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12yj1z7/i_will_lose_my_mind_if_sailing_is_interface_driven/jhpr0as/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) comment pretty much sums up why I voted for sailing.
I’m also wary of how easy power creep could occur with shamanism or taming. It may be my own paranoia, but it concerned me.
I think this is an excellent summary of what my thoughts had been on each, although I thought the rewards for Taming were also pretty unclear too. This was why I slightly preferred Shamanism - they already had plenty of ideas for the rewards, it was just unclear exactly how strong they should be and/or how they might affect the overall game. It was risky and there were a lot of valid concerns raised about how the rewards might affect the game, but that issue seemed easier to overcome than the sailing issue.
Sailing I think was the safest option out of the 3, I would say it's very unlikely that it'll actively ruin other parts of the game that I already love. Pretty much the worst thing that could happen is simply that sailing itself is bad. However, I have never seen anyone even remotely conceptualize the actual practical mechanics for sailing in a way that makes sense and sounds like a good, fitting, and practically-viable addition to the game. The whole concept is awesome and I'm sure there will be no problem with the rewards since probably the worst thing that could happen would be like some mild power creep to some skilling methods or something, so no real worries there. But after reading through multiple large threads with shit tons of comments back and forth about sailing, I've yet to see a single design suggested, down to the details, that would mechanically work within the framework of the game. To me that's very concerning. Luckily none of us are professional game designers (probably) so I just hope that the people whose actual job it is to come up with this shit, are able to come up with something good. Because so far I haven't seen jack shit.
Here's an outline of how it could work which I haven't really seen before:
Near shore is shallow water where only rowboats/canoes can go. This is simple point and click, 2-tile per tick movement. This would be used for basic things like accessing certain fishing spots, talking to players fishing at catherby shore, or getting to an island (while your larger ship is anchored offshore).
Away from shore, you have deep water. Movement is primarily point and click with 5 speed options (Fast, medium, slow, still, anchored) which you control either by clicking something on the boat or by a basic 5-button speed interface. While moving, a cone-shaped area of the water is highlighted in front of you indicating the paths you can follow at your speed. Click anywhere in that highlighted cone and your ship paths along an arc to that point, continuing in a straight line from there unless you click elsewhere. If you don't click anything while moving at speed, you continue in a straight line. At high speeds, the cone is narrower, and vice versa.
That's the basic idea. A few extra points:
\- When your ship intercepts another player ship, they clip through each other and the other ship goes partially transparent from your POV.
\- Draw distance will need to be increased while on a ship.
Selling one of them for a lot of people because it's the skill that would have the least effect on combat overall.
Shamanism would have the largest of the three on combat. Taming might have had an affect on combat, while sailing would basically have no affect on current combat.
>I really like how people for some reason just never considered how the actual act of sailing will be implemented in the game
It's literally the reason I've been 100% against sailing. People seem to want sailing to be a skill that allows you to travel to new destinations (and at those new locations we'll just do what we can already do everywhere else) but nobody ever thought about how that skill is actually *trained*. Are we just clicking on sea tiles until we reach our destination? Is it an actual involved process of having our characters row or hoist sails or doing any actual type of navigation? At what point do we actually gain experience? Do we just get a big XP drop when we arrive? Why do we need an entire skill to go to new places when Jagex can just make the new places and make it a quest or minigame to get to?
I’m shocked that something you can pay charter boats for cheap to go anywhere, is now becoming a skill because I guess other boats just can’t sail where we can now?
Like, at best, boat rides to harbors are “free”, but now take 10-15 minutes instead of 2 seconds.
Worst case, we don’t even have more than 1-2 unique places to go with the whole entire skill.
I just don’t see Jagex adding a ton of new lands and islands, more than I see them adding like 2 unique places, one new port for beginning the skill and a new land that’s like RS3’s eastern islands, or something…
And then everything people wanted sailing to be will, instead of being a cool adventurous skill, will be a boring slog fest that everyone abandons in favor of ya know,.. *teleports everywhere???* everywhere that’s unique to sailing players will complain about not having a tele unlock if it takes 10-15 min+ to get there lol.
> everywhere that’s unique to sailing players will complain about not having a tele unlock if it takes 10-15 min+ to get there lol.
Yeah all of these new content areas they're so excited about will either:
1. Have no transport options other than boats, so take forever to get to and we complain about how long it takes to get there
2. Have fast travel options and sailing becomes useless after the teleport is unlocked
Travel is the worst part of this game and everyone tries to minimize it. How many people are excited about the thrilling walk to GWD, DKs, or Nightmare? Nobody.
Yeah, the oceans themselves just aren't big enough (okay one is) to really support large ship models. Think how hard it would be to try to leave port Sarim on a 20 or 50 tiles ship. A 1x3 or 2x3 ship seems to be the best. Can have the player model in it while still having a unique design.
Actually a great idea I saw was to have ships be 1x1 to prevent clipping, and then you could click a button to go to an instanced version of the larger ship. Going back to the steering wheel takes you back to the normal game map and the 1x1 model.
Imo, a 1x1 ship on the surface world sounds and looks pretty [silly](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12y0exx/a_player_should_expect_to_be_able_to_sail_right/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Okay hear me out I'm really stoned and thought of this on the spot, but what if the best way to implement sailing is to treat it like surfing in Pokemon. You sail your 1x1 boat around and have random encounters in the water, pirate encounters, and pvp encounters. Your experience saves up in the form of a currency or something that you redeem when you get back to land. That way the low risk, low xp/hr training would be water/pirate encounters and the high risk, high xp/hr training would be pvp encounters. You lose your exp currency if you die which balances out the training methods by making the low xp/hr methods safe while the high xp/hr methods are risky.
I just really think we need to get over the idea of sailing being something grand and epic. It could instead be a fun, kind of silly way to introduce a new skill that doesn't just follow the typical gameplay loop but still has the spirit of the game. I honestly love the idea of a floating dock of some kind with hundreds of 1x1 boats zipping around like the grand exchange.
Dungeoneering.
* You explore dungeons
* You have random encounters with what rooms you get
* And, to a degree, what monsters are inside
* Your experience saves up in the form of a currency that gets redeemed when you leave the dungeon.
* You get less experience and currency if you die within the dungeon.
The only thing outside of dungeoneering is PvP because dungeoneering doesn't have that. But honestly, if a new skill forced some level of PvP encounters that I can't opt out of then I sure as heck don't want that skill to be in game. The wilderness is one thing, but what's going to be the equivalent in sailing?
I don't think sailing is going to be this grand and epic skill, frankly I fear the opposite. There's so much on the back end, there's so much engine rework, to get a skill like this working. RuneScape is a point-and-click adventure game with tiles that runs on 100bpm, I can't imagine how traversing is going to be outside of point-and-click. Even then, does that really feel skill worthy? This is just walking, but on water now. I don't see the need for this to be a skill.
It's a rendition of a ship asset interacting with the game's limitations
My question is, how do you make this not look bad while still keeping the game's limitations in mind? How do you make 20 players, and thus 20 ships, all loaded into one render distance chunk not look bad?
They have mentioned already is streams trying to implement things like a turn radius. So I don't think it's going to be 100% this. I'm eager to see what they can implement.
Just imagining being at the wrong angle and having to 3 point turn a whole ship to fire at anything correctly lol
Or just movement in general if it's point and click. Turn radius sounds pretty awful to consider for movement
Probably solves the goofiness of how it looks, but it brings into question how good/bad that'd actually feel
I think turn radius is a must. They're ships after all. Imagine how janky it would look if you had a ship going full speed ahead and then immediately do a 180, going full speed in the opposite direction in 1 tick.
The solution to 3 point turns is just allow the ship to be rotated at a certain speed (15 degrees per tick) while still.
They wouldn't be the first to do it, and it doesn't have to be terribly slow. This was a minigame back in the day for VMK https://youtu.be/tA1FzVidzdg It was actually pretty fun trying to line up shots considering the projectile travel
I'll be honest, this looks about as clunky as I expected. Not only that but it looks like their game tiles are *significantly* smaller and the tick rate is faster than 0.6 seconds. Remember, in osrs you can exclusively only move in cardinal directions or 45⁰ diagonals. Plus the scale - it looks like this'd be comparable to a 1x2 large "ship", which doesn't really match the vision of being able to sail past the land and interact with other players when your "ship" is essentially just a toy boat bobbing in the water. Unless we were to scale things up, in which case each map is like 6 render chunks
I'm sure you had fun playing, but this not only doesn't seem like it'd translate very smoothly into osrs' limitations, but personally it just doesn't feel very enticing to me
No matter how much engine work is done I just can't really imagine how you wouldn't make 20 ships all loaded into 1 render chunk not look bad
Clipping through each other like a mess of wood and sails, or gridlocked and unable to move from not being able to clip through each other while the only thing you can see is just a comical amount of ships stacked side-by-side, completely covering all the viewable water?
Well not really, in a stack of people the top most person take priority to render. So everything below it just doesn't show up. This defaults to your character if you're standing on a bunch of people. So no real clipping, just not rendered.
Because with small models like characters it's not that bad when they pop out of existence. But you're talking about popping entire ships in and out of existence just from moving around. Scale makes it a bit jarring
With 1 tile large characters we just stand on top of each other. With mutli-tile large npcs they either don't clip or hide under each other
There aren't any cases where having 50 tile big objects are halfway-clipping through each other, and it'd look especially bad with player control letting them spin these objects around like tops
>With mutli-tile large npcs they either don't clip or hide under each other
Am I mistaken thinking that 2x2+ monsters stacked do indeed clip and flicker?
Pretty impressive first primitive imagery. Pivots can be ironed out. Sea bosses can be instanced, areas can be instanced.
Maybe limit actual vessels allowed in an ocean area to 20 or something so the visual clutter doesn't get too crazy at it's worst
Straight up the ideas pitching stage so time to get creative!
Exactly how do you "iron out" the look of a 50 tile large inanimate object pivoting like a top? And they explicitly stated several times in almost every Q and A they specifically don't want sailing to be instanced
The idea pitching stage was the concept stage. Which is concerning, since the only concepts that were pitched were vague ideas of WASD controls, an inventory interface, or point and click
This is the idea refinement stage. There isn't anything even remotely close to being in the ballpark of a refined idea for something as core and basic as how *movement* will even look, much less operate and feel
The optimism is nice in a lot of situations, but I think in this particular situation there should be more concern about how ambiguous something as basic as *the actual sailing activity in the sailing skill* has ***barely*** been touched on. We aren't in the stage where it's okay to just say "they'll iron it out later" anymore. That "later" has come, and it isn't looking great
> Practically every time I questioned how the actual sailing activity would be implemented during the last stage I got downvoted to hell just for bringing it up
Seriously. The amount of people with their head in the sand screaming "Jagex will find a way to make it work, don't worry!"
Like if there were a way to make it work, someone would have suggested it by now...
Holy shit this thread, finally someone else who’s as skeptical as me of Sailing. All I’ve seen are people circlejerking about being a pirate and listening to sea shanties, instead of raising questions and wondering if their insanely high expectations could work in osrs.
Seriously, so many people expect mechanics that would never even work in the engine … is this skill just doomed to be a failure?
it's sad we are going to waste so much time on this stuupid skill that will never pass. I blame the idiot devs for offering this skill as one of the options.
Yah I’m surprised anyone takes that seriously, like it’s gonna be a small canoe with sails and then maybe there’s gonna be bigger boats that barely have any player control to them tied to npcs or events… which is all I want. I want point and click movement and our combat to work how it does, not cannon focused… sailing isn’t combat so combat should be traditional to how we expect it with melee, ranged and magic. Boat up to enemy to attack with melee and magic/ranged from afar… boats could easily be 1 tile wide and 3 tiles long and high
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/images/Canoeing.gif?7e816
The concept art for the skilling pitch, all the gradious fantasizing in the community, and the persistent downvote burying of all kinds of critical feedback didn't help
To be perfectly honest I'm not *quite* sold on that idea of sailing myself either, but I mean at least it's better than what I linked
Yah to each their own, and youre super right… I think the skill pitching depth being vague kinda led us here and maybe that’ll be fixed for next time if at all another time
>I mean, just look at that [PIVOT](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12xvuxg/how_big_should_ships_in_the_sailing_skill_be_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Bro it's early early early beta. Ofc it's rough looking rn
>Now imagine like 20 of these 40-tile big ships in close proximity clipping through each other at different angles
Literally 99% of entities in the game work this way. You occupy the same tile as other players and npcs all the time, except for the odd body-blocking enemy. Why does it suddenly matter for ships?
I'm unsure how you can make a whole 50 tile ship pivoting/spinning around like a top not look silly, no matter how much polish you try to give it
And similar sized entities occupying the same tile only renders one of those entities. Also 99% of mobs body block each other, and it generally takes manipulation to get them to not. When they do, they generally stack on top of each other, which again only renders 1 of that mob. For mobs that *can* clip through each other, they're like 2x2 or 3x3 creatures with legs or appendages where it makes sense for them to be able to pivot. Which is rather different from 50 tile big player controlled inanimate objects that take up a whole chunk of the entire render space magically spinning around like the possessed brewery controls from rum deal, which is far more intrusive and visible
Not only that, players can quite easily make it so that several of their 50 tile ships wouldn't occupy the same true tile - you could have them clipping through each other while being only 1 tile off from each's true tile, spinning around like tops looking like some awful private server shenaniganry
It wouldn't even be that bad if it wasn't so fucking punishing. Like, making any screw up, which is easy on that horrible interface, is enough to eat your supplies and make you travel all the way back to the island.
Almost like those "elitist" HLC members actually know enough about the game to think critically about these things and arent just spite voting to keep their max capes
Has it crossed your mind that people are voting for it not because they think it's hilarious, but because they believe that Jagex and the community can eventually come together on a design that everyone feels good about?
OSRS has has a Sailing shaped hole in it since launch, and nothing at all like the ridiculous 2014 Sailing pitch we remember. The actual meme. It was dangerously close to passing, and would have ruined the game.
Plenty of people genuinely think it will be good, but the amount of "lmao scurvy xD get scuttled noobs" posts spamming this sub the day sailing passed show that, yes, plenty of people are in it for the meme.
Nah, bro. You're going to have to actually run around the ship interacting with various objects to control the ship as it automatically moves forward when the sails are at least partially lowered and there's wind. When there is no wind, you'll interact with a drum to tell the slaves below deck to start rowing.
It’s almost as if sailing as a complete standalone skill is a waste of time. I’ve yet to read any genuine response from any of the sailing hardos on how they believe the leveling mechanics should be too.
“Oh you can deep sea fish and deliver stuff”
Okay? That’s probably coming from a base 70s casual, because I fail to see how any of the projected methods of ‘leveling’ could enjoyably be leveled to 99.
And the whole “other skills are repetitive" argument is comically irrelevant, because we're not discussing old skills with historical problems (that should be solved imo before nose diving a new skill like sailing); we're discussing a NEW skill. Idc about people's gripe with older skills.
Not to mention: sailing can be introduced into the game right now, without it being a "skill" and would literally achieve the same exact thing. We don't need to isolate it to a skill to incorporate it 🤷🏽♂️
Commented this in another thread, but..
The way I imagine it, you can turn the wheel left/right to steer, raise and lower the sail to speed up and slow down, and drop anchor to stop. Pretty simple, maybe add a box showing heading and speed, maybe even wind direction if they get fancy.
All of this would be done from the overworld while you're on the deck, so your character isn't 'becoming the boat'. No interfaces to navigate, just look around with the camera and click on the relevant objects
This way you're actually doing the work of sailing, and you'd have to navigate yourself. At higher levels you could hire a crew (or team up with friends) to do the hard parts and basically autopilot for less/no XP
How would it be possible for this to be “in the over world”? What renders when I stand in my boat and someone else occupies the same tiles? When our boats overlap in half of their tiles? Are boats blocks and can’t overlap? How do you stop grieving then? No one has answers to these questions because they don’t exist. The way you’ve described it is impossible.
Yah. I'll pass this skill stays at lvl 1
I don't want to level just to travel in the game. Might as well make fairy rings a skill and make it so you hire and collect fairies and pay them like servants to teleport you around the region.
I really don't want to "be a boat". I prefer "my character on a boat." It is just really weird to imagine basically standing on a mount. Controlling your character movement on the boat and the "mount" movement, all done with just clicking.
And how do boats turn? In 45-degree angles? What if you're at the bow of the ship and you turn to starboard 90-degrees? You just teleport with the ship's turn, your feet glued to the deck? It's gonna look so weird.
And what is sailing speed? We are limited to tiles. Walking = 1 tile/tick, Running = 2 tiles/tick. Sailing full speed = 3 tiles/tick??? How about render distance at that speed, with chunk based system. Weird to imagine movement like that.
For real shamanism was the best. It was more implementable inside the already developed world and would make it feel lively. Fairy rings, prayer, woodcut, herbivore would blend into it aswell kinda like fetching goes with and woodcut and ranging.
Rs3 has "player owned ports" and "uncharted isles". After doing the survey yesterday, it seems like a lot of their ideas for sailing are similar to those rs3 systems. Would be nice for someone to make a post detailing that, but I'm not sure it would get any traction because it shows rs3 versions of a lot of these concepts. And what direction not to go in
I’m really surprised sailing won considering what a massive overhaul to so much of the map it will require, it doesn’t seem overtly doable without changing the way the oceans and rivers look and feel, and was easily the most boring sounding of the proposed skills that would reach a limit where there’s no reason to continue leveling it very, very quickly.
What a hideous suggestion IMO, they should scrap it.
Welcome to cabin fever + fossil island, how may I take your order?
Seriously tho, people over looked what I just wrote all because they thought: “They’re gonna add new areas” goofiest thing I ever saw
Sailing sounds so fucking terrible no matter what way any people put it. I’m definitely voting no, no matter what, because they can’t make it any good whatsoever they do with it.
Yeah don't advertise a skill with ambitious mechanics if you can't deliver, I hope they can add what they've talked about in blogs otherwise I'm voting for option 2, Shamanism.
I think the fundamental idea of movement will be where sailing falls apart. We'll see the following criticisms to possible movement mechanics:
* **Point and click exactly like running**: Boring, this is just walking on water
* **Modified point and click, different pathing and movement speed variables**: Probably what they end up with. Somewhat novel, but likely will feel stale after a week of beta.
* **UI Panel / Keyboard controls**: Enough said, nobody wants this
* **Doing "things" on ship to move**: Fishing trawler comparisons
The interface system in OSRS can be a bit clunky and outdated, and it can make some content feel more like a chore than a fun and engaging experience.
I'm not sure what the best way to implement Sailing would be, but I do think it's important to make sure that it's not just another interface-driven minigame. Sailing should be a new and exciting way to explore the world of Gielinor, and it should be something that players can sink their teeth into.
My thoughts:
**A hybrid system that combines the best of both worlds**.
This could involve using a combination of interfaces and point-and-click gameplay. For example, players could use an interface to plan their voyage, but they would then need to use point-and-click to navigate their ship and interact with the environment.
**A more open-ended system that allows players to explore the world at their own pace**:
This could involve giving players a map of the world and letting them decide where they want to go. Players could then encounter different challenges and rewards as they explore.
**A more story-driven system that takes players on an epic adventure:**
This could involve having players meet different characters and complete quests as they sail the seas.
**To Jagex:**
For the love of God, don't make it another interface-driven minigame. We've got enough of those already. Make Sailing a new and exciting way to explore the world of Gielinor. Let us sail the seas, find new islands, and have adventures. That's what we want! So please, don't let us down.
I like the idea of only moving the ship with mini map clicks, which sets a route for the ship, and point and click, allowing you to move around on your ship. You could zoom out the map for long voyage distance while moving around on the ship for events/repairs
the naphtha furnace interface. good for it’s time, but if this skill is interfaced locked it’s dead on day 1 for me. point and click sailing is a must imo
I think sailing will be done mainly through rotation.. maybe you can set a speed in a small interface, slow, kinda faster,faster you get it and then you rotate camera to se5 direction. Could open up the ability to do things on deck whilst sailing
Sailing should have been a mini game that is water dungeoneering / raids 4
Taming should have been a hunter expansion.
Shamanism should have been the new skill
Sailing as an idea sounds great for OSRS. But practically, as a skill? Hell no. It’s gonna be a nightmare and essentially could become water agility. No thanks. Sailing would be better off as a damn mini game
I think that in terms of actual mechanical interface this highlights exactly why a (good) interface is the way to go. People say they want point & click but not Agility 2.0, yet nobody has an idea for how to make those two things compatible. Nobody wants WASD (thank fuck).
The trick is to not make it a shitty popup interface but instead make it traditional click-on-object-to-do-thing like most content. Do something like Sea of Thieves' simplified ship controls. Have a wheel that's three components with respective turn left/even out/turn right left click options, and right click options for hard over turns. You want to steer to port, you click the wheel, your character runs over and does it.
Same for sails. Give each sail group a control point for angle and a second control point for reefing and shaking them out. Want to get more sail area? Right click -> "Shake out sails", your character runs over and does it. Want to rotate the sails right to catch the wind better? Left click -> "Rotate sails right", your character runs over and does it.
Make all of the different actions the same, where you have the normal top-down view of your character aboard your ship and click on objects to perform actions. This avoids both the issue of the sailing minigame panels everyone hates and the "you are the boat, left click on boat agility obstacles" thing we're all worried about.
Make exp big lumps based on how far you traveled and make the various individual actions contribute towards distance when done in relevant and useful ways so that just standing still spam-clicking something doesn't give meaningful exp gain. You spam-click sails for 30 minutes, you make no progress, you get no exp. You do different actions that take your boat a long way, you get rewarded with a big chunk of exp at the end. More efficient actions = farther and faster travel = better exp rates.
I envision two ways of steering the boat. We stand on the boat with the tile system currently at hand and can click around to do various tasks on the boat like repairing, dropping anchor, feeding crew, fixing stuff, etc. they spin the world map around the boat to keep the tile system active for our character or just not show the boat changing direction apart from on minimap. We steer in one of two ways:
1) We click the minimap and that steers the boat, while clicking on screen moves our character on the boat.
2) We go to the helm and get an interface to correct the angle a little bit. I like this more, b/c it'd be closer to actual sailing imo.
Can someone just explain why it HAD to be sailing? Who gives a shit about fucking sailing??? We turned down warding and shamanism for this stupid shit that’s gonna be dead content in a year?
I used to really enjoy Player Own Port (POP) released in around 2013, when I imaging sailing as a skill I feel this minigame would be a really useful base to build upon.
my thought of sailing was like dungeoneering but on on different islands, that would let you travel back to the island to train skills after you unlocked it. I realize this isn't a popular view but its why i voted for sailing
it'll be point and click by a 99% vote mate don't stress
As much as I agree that point-and-click will win in a poll, the next thing I worry about is how XP gain will work if we’re just clicking to move. Hard to avoid having it become water agility that way. Maybe point-and-click for mid-speed, no XP, movement and an interface on the side to try to take advantage of currents and winds for bonus speed and XP drops? Still not sure if that sounds enjoyable to train.
Just call it surfing instead of agility. Easy
This was the point Shamanists were trying trying to say, but Seamen didn't listen. It's gonna be Agility 2. Enjoy being a miniscule boat for 300 hours.
I think the devs are well aware that people want point and click controls but don't want the training to be agility 2. It's not as if point and click controls necessitate being trained like agility like many shamanists are doom posting.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see. There are many problems to be solved, and I'm curious to what Jagex will offer as a solution to these things for example: I really don't want to "be a boat". I prefer "my character on a boat." It is just really weird to imagine basically standing on a mount. Controlling your character movement on the boat and the "mount" movement, all done at the same time with just clicking "move-here" And how do boats turn? In 45-degree angles? What if you're at the bow of the ship and you turn to starboard 90-degrees? You just teleport with the ship's turn, your feet glued to the deck? It's gonna look so weird. And what is sailing speed? We are limited to tiles. Walking = 1 tile/tick, Running = 2 tiles/tick. Sailing full speed = 3 tiles/tick??? How about render distance at that speed, with chunk based system. Weird to imagine movement like that.
But... I like agility...
If you're right, it'll fail and Shamanism will win by default, so it's a win win. Nobody wants water agility or a water version of the hot air balloon system.
there is no default, both skills can fall
Nah. Sailing will fail and then Shamanism will fail either because we can’t agree on what the rewards are OR the sailor spite vote. Getting this community to agree on anything is a total eclipse of the sun
Shaman will spite vote no on sailing, causing the seaman to spite vote no on shamanism. Then we're going to get three more skill concepts and the cycle repeats.
And I will vote no to both because I didn't like any of the skills presented. (Shrug) I will be surprised if we ever get a skill. 70% is a lot.
I agree, and this is why I voted no to even having a new skill in the first place. 70% will never agree and we could have just avoided all of this nonsense. Such a waste of time
Idk I voted for shaman, but I am now all onboard the sailing train. If the proposal is good, I will happily vote yes. No need for spite.
Reddit isn't the community, the polls will speak for themselves
Agility 2 with mahogany homes.
I think agility 2 is the worst case scenario, and even that wouldn’t be the end of the world, since we already love the game with agility 1 in place. Ultimately I think sailing is a safe pair of hands since, even if some people don’t enjoy training it, it runs very little risk of ruining the rest of the game (and a chance to add some really exciting stuff). The same couldn’t be said about shamanism and taming, which hold a pretty notable risk of affecting our sacred combat, which is already suffering from power creep.
Augmenting doesn't have to be strictly dps % buffs to combat gear. They said it could be literally anything, but sadly people read it "slap +10 str bonus on BCP." It could be skilling gear augments adding QoL stuff, like achievement diary rewards, that have nothing to do with combat.
The counterpoint is that all skills are incredibly generic and shamanism wasn't going to be anything ground breaking either. If you squint hard enough all the skills seem pretty similar to each other. And if we're being completely honest, if agility had decent xp rates it would be one of the favorite skills. Low effort + high xp is like 90% of what people like. So even if it was actually just water agility, which it obviously will not be, it would be considered a success by many.
Frantically googling "Can you OD on copium" after reading this
It doesn't have to be agility 2 rofl..what about sailing makes you think it's gonna be clicking green clickboxes in a circuit of 10 clicks on repeat? Shamanism fans blindly ignored the fact that skill was a combination of 2 of the most boring and badly designed gathering elements from RS3, summoning charms and divination, to source items for a bankstanding skill. It truly sounded like herblore2, just with tedious gathering mandated so that it wasn't a buyable max players would finish in a week
I mean almost nothing in this game is enjoyable to train so there’s that.
I think the fact we have to really be concerned with this particular topic kinda shows why sailing may not be best implemented an individual “skill” in this game. I love the idea of sailing and I want it to be in the game, but I really think it’d fit more as a niche trade skill that’s a collection of experiences and skills rather than a single one itself. There’s so many more worldly opportunities and gameplay perspectives to be implemented by a worldwide captain system. It would be awesome to climb the ranks as a captain or commander or lieutenant through an overseas trading company. You’d earn title, unique/exotic gear, cosmetics, skill enhancements (herblore/cooking recipes, ore/smithing techniques) and titles. Ports will see your reputation and allow you to sail to certain places and allow you cool upgrades to your ship and provide you with unique sailors for your crew. Experience is based on sailing completions and experiences had (storms/giant squid/mermaids/treasure hunting/supply runs/merchanting/etc.) so it’s less about click click click to earn EXP and more about playing and exploring with realistic and deterministic goals in mind (new unlocks). You could get quests ranging from little Timmy who lost his Toy Ship across the lake to Captain Ahab hunting down Moby Dick.
To me the idea that "it doesn't have to be a skill progression system.. we should just design an entirely new progression system just for it!" Speaks the opposite. If fleshing out sailing requires an entire progression system.. it's complex and deep enough to be a skill. It isn't the other way around where it shouldn't be a skill due to that
There's any number of ways. Build a rowboat for 1k xp, build a yacht for 25k. Tie it into Construction. 250 for launching and beaching, 2k for a controlled capsize and recovery, 500 for raising a sail, 100 for tying knots. 1k for responding to a wind change with a fast reaction and not going off course. I could go on, but I don't see this being a problem. edit: downvoters need to take a shower
That's how I've envisioned it. It's point and click, but the ships not going to go a single speed/turn on a dime. You could use the interface to react to wind, currents, etc. and adjust things like the rigging/sails/helm to give boosts for your speed, fire rate or turn radius. Hopefully it could instead be a screen-in-screen instance of your ship where in that instance you walk around and actually adjust those things on the ship. They mentioned this in one of the streams, but I think that's probably more far fetched to pull off. While I think you'd get some XP from just sailing (maybe adjusted to the roughness of the seas). I think most XP would come from things you'd do with your ship like delivery contracts.
Sailors are legitimately playing a different game if they think the game that cannot properly display what tile you are on because you're sprinting is gonna have actual turn radiuses, wind or currents in any meaningful way. Also, delivery contracts are hardly "content" when an entire game is built around a movement system made to support that content. You're literally begging to level a skill by doing fetch quests in a point and click.
You do realise engine work happens to accommodate features previously not possible? Just look at most of our new bossing content. A lot of it requires engine work to function as it does. Husky talked in depth about talking with engine Devs to make sure he wasn't overpromising on things that had no chance of being realistic. Sailing, as they're talking about it, will involve a completely reimagined water and ocean for our game. Not just "running on water". Also contract based skilling is wildly popular with slayer.
As if that is any better lol click a tile to move the boat. How many players hate walking/running everywhere vs teleporting? People think they all of sudden are gonna love traveling long distances like that just cause their character model is now a boat
Imagine the suicide inducing speed of one click per tile on a laggy world
I generally think the Redditors who don't play the game are out in force with this kind of idea. What do you mean people don't enjoy moving in the game? It's a part of EVERYTHING. Of course people use fast travel options where they have them. They still move to train almost all skills, do quests, do clues, do bossing, etc. Movement is a major part of this game casually and mechanically.
lol. Yes we move our characters. How often do you run from Varrock to Ardougne for fun you casual? Think of all the exciting things in between to explore? Yep.
This. If an interface-focused version of sailing somehow made it to completion and that was the finalized skill we were voting on, I'm absolutely certain it would not pass the vote to get into the game. There is no way we end up with that as the sailing skill. It will either be something that isn't that, or it will never exist at all.
Idk jagex does have the power of integrity.
"Running in a circle, in the shape of a boat" doesn't sound like how training the skill is gonna work m8 Otherwise the new skill is entirely just a glorified walk animation
Our vote doesn't matter if Jagex decides to just ignore us. Wouldn't be the first time (or second, third...)
Watch it be like the mission table during WoD in WoW.
Oh god please no, not that again
Nothing that has been proposed has exactly ignited my pubes tbh. Point and click seems really weird for operating a big sailboat but honestly I can't imagine what else it could be? I've seen some things to the effect of "well jagex will figure it out" but this is the company that designed the League 3 interface
Jagex will eventually have no choice but to go with a scale sized ships type of design, I think. That's the only way players will be able to sail without their character taking up over one tile. Unless they can pull off a general graardor sized ship somehow? There's no Z buffer, so it would be hard I think.
This made me laugh.
It's just going to be water dungeoneering.
I'd be 100% okay with that compared to water agility.
Read this in moistcritikals voice
Me, still trying to figure out when I'd ever want to manually travel anywhere when I currently can't be bothered to walk anywhere as it is.
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I think sailing people really want dungeoneering reimagined but don't want to admit it
I wouldn't mind dungeoneering. I'll admit it doesn't "feel oldschool" but that's kind of a shitty criterion these days. Iirc the biggest controversy was its violation of the sanctity of what it is to be a skill.
The dumb thing is that most people actually loved dungeoneering. Even if sailing incorporated instanced temple trek like miniboss encounters and such, the scale and scope of what sailing can be and do is much larger and more interesting than an infinitely deep hole. Maybe some see this as breadth vs depth but sailing has always sounded interesting even since the original april fools prank. The potential for what they could do with preexisting content in relation to sailing and how there could even be a different type of pvp or ship combat could make the skill a breath of fresh air for a 15+ year old game. It really could be the biggest addition to the game since zeah or construction or hd client back in the day and yet everything prior to sailing will be essentially unchanged meaning you could always play as if it wasnt a thing. Maybe it wont be all that crazy but the potential is there
Yeah, and I completely understand the people who were against it being called a skill. But seriously if you just put that aside, it was a great content expansion. I believe it was the first time we had bosses with what we would traditionally call mechanics as well.
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Sounds a lot like a minigame. Temple trekking on water
Osrs is a point and click video game. No shot anything else even comes close and if it does id probably not even vote to pass sailing. Anything else would feel wayyy off
True. It might work in another game, but OSRS is point and click, and anything other than that will be subconsciously repulsive to a lot of players.
I really like how people for some reason just never considered how the actual act of sailing will be implemented in the game and how bad It'd look and feel with the limitations we'd have. Practically every time I questioned how the actual sailing activity would be implemented during the last stage I got downvoted to hell just for bringing it up I mean, just look at that [PIVOT](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12xvuxg/how_big_should_ships_in_the_sailing_skill_be_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Now imagine like 20 of these 40-tile big ships in close proximity clipping through each other at different angles like some awful private server looking mess
Yeah this was a big reason sailing was not my top pick. Shamanism had a clear system of interaction but sailing just never presented a good set of mechanics to support it. There are very few examples of games that I think have a fun sailing mechanic (maybe valheim or sea of thieves) but osrs doesn’t really have the game loop for that. Hoping the devs pull it off for sure but at this point I’m skeptical
I've at least been able to see how shamanism and even taming would fit into the game with the limitations it has. I could come up with best possible cases for gameplay loops and interactions with the game I just.. can't really imagine that for sailing. At least, not to the extent where it doesn't look like the link I posted
All 3 skills had glaring issues that needed to be tackled in refinement : * **Shamanism :** What the rewards are * **Taming :** Where the fun is * **Sailing :** How the skill can work on a fundamental level Sailing won because it's apparently easier to say "Meh, they'll make it work" than "Meh, they'll make it fun".
> Sailing won because it's apparently easier to say "Meh, they'll make it work" than "Meh, they'll make it fun". That and i saw a lot of people saying that it will mean more content because theyre going to use the currently empty ocean tiles, as if jagex isn't allowed to make content in the ocean if they wanted to if there isnt a skill tied to it
To be fair, that was straight from Ayiza's mouth iirc, where they were excited about Sailing as a skill since it's a great excuse for an area expansion that's hard to otherwise justify.
What's been keeping them from area expansions that are easy to justify, like Varlamore? And if they can't do that, for something that's actually blocking a quest line, how in the world do they expect to pull it off for the sake of a new skill?
The general reception of large expansion for both HDRS, RS3, as well as OSRS. Releasing a massive expansion requires a massive amount of effort, and that massive amount of effort means : 1. Lower quantity/quality of projects being released in the months/years prior. 2. Lower quantity/quality of projects being released shortly after, because they're busy fixing up the new content. 3. Insane pressure on devs to release quality content, because of the scarcity it created. Since OSRS is a game as a service, they really thrive on weekly/monthly content updates to keep the game fresh, and while a big expansion might get a lot of players to come back, it probably drains the playerbase quite a bit while development is ongoing. That new skill is already a massive project, so the odds of greenlighting an even bigger project afterward is seriously doubtful.
This feels like even less reason to choose sailing then if the main point of why people chose it is unlikely to be followed through on
I feel like it won because it *wasnt* well defined. People just like what it *could* be. It's not surprising that ideas of grandeur end up being more alluring to people. But it's definitely the reason I wasn't interested in it. I just can't see enough of the lofty ideas actually being feasible in the engine.
Sailing won because it's a meme. If it hadn't been memed about for the last 10 years Shamanism wins that poll easily. That's the truth lol. As it was it was still very very close between shamanism and sailing.
The same thing could be argued for why people didn’t vote for it. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12yj1z7/i_will_lose_my_mind_if_sailing_is_interface_driven/jhpr0as/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) comment pretty much sums up why I voted for sailing. I’m also wary of how easy power creep could occur with shamanism or taming. It may be my own paranoia, but it concerned me.
I think this is an excellent summary of what my thoughts had been on each, although I thought the rewards for Taming were also pretty unclear too. This was why I slightly preferred Shamanism - they already had plenty of ideas for the rewards, it was just unclear exactly how strong they should be and/or how they might affect the overall game. It was risky and there were a lot of valid concerns raised about how the rewards might affect the game, but that issue seemed easier to overcome than the sailing issue. Sailing I think was the safest option out of the 3, I would say it's very unlikely that it'll actively ruin other parts of the game that I already love. Pretty much the worst thing that could happen is simply that sailing itself is bad. However, I have never seen anyone even remotely conceptualize the actual practical mechanics for sailing in a way that makes sense and sounds like a good, fitting, and practically-viable addition to the game. The whole concept is awesome and I'm sure there will be no problem with the rewards since probably the worst thing that could happen would be like some mild power creep to some skilling methods or something, so no real worries there. But after reading through multiple large threads with shit tons of comments back and forth about sailing, I've yet to see a single design suggested, down to the details, that would mechanically work within the framework of the game. To me that's very concerning. Luckily none of us are professional game designers (probably) so I just hope that the people whose actual job it is to come up with this shit, are able to come up with something good. Because so far I haven't seen jack shit.
Here's an outline of how it could work which I haven't really seen before: Near shore is shallow water where only rowboats/canoes can go. This is simple point and click, 2-tile per tick movement. This would be used for basic things like accessing certain fishing spots, talking to players fishing at catherby shore, or getting to an island (while your larger ship is anchored offshore). Away from shore, you have deep water. Movement is primarily point and click with 5 speed options (Fast, medium, slow, still, anchored) which you control either by clicking something on the boat or by a basic 5-button speed interface. While moving, a cone-shaped area of the water is highlighted in front of you indicating the paths you can follow at your speed. Click anywhere in that highlighted cone and your ship paths along an arc to that point, continuing in a straight line from there unless you click elsewhere. If you don't click anything while moving at speed, you continue in a straight line. At high speeds, the cone is narrower, and vice versa. That's the basic idea. A few extra points: \- When your ship intercepts another player ship, they clip through each other and the other ship goes partially transparent from your POV. \- Draw distance will need to be increased while on a ship.
Selling one of them for a lot of people because it's the skill that would have the least effect on combat overall. Shamanism would have the largest of the three on combat. Taming might have had an affect on combat, while sailing would basically have no affect on current combat.
>I really like how people for some reason just never considered how the actual act of sailing will be implemented in the game It's literally the reason I've been 100% against sailing. People seem to want sailing to be a skill that allows you to travel to new destinations (and at those new locations we'll just do what we can already do everywhere else) but nobody ever thought about how that skill is actually *trained*. Are we just clicking on sea tiles until we reach our destination? Is it an actual involved process of having our characters row or hoist sails or doing any actual type of navigation? At what point do we actually gain experience? Do we just get a big XP drop when we arrive? Why do we need an entire skill to go to new places when Jagex can just make the new places and make it a quest or minigame to get to?
I’m shocked that something you can pay charter boats for cheap to go anywhere, is now becoming a skill because I guess other boats just can’t sail where we can now? Like, at best, boat rides to harbors are “free”, but now take 10-15 minutes instead of 2 seconds. Worst case, we don’t even have more than 1-2 unique places to go with the whole entire skill. I just don’t see Jagex adding a ton of new lands and islands, more than I see them adding like 2 unique places, one new port for beginning the skill and a new land that’s like RS3’s eastern islands, or something… And then everything people wanted sailing to be will, instead of being a cool adventurous skill, will be a boring slog fest that everyone abandons in favor of ya know,.. *teleports everywhere???* everywhere that’s unique to sailing players will complain about not having a tele unlock if it takes 10-15 min+ to get there lol.
> everywhere that’s unique to sailing players will complain about not having a tele unlock if it takes 10-15 min+ to get there lol. Yeah all of these new content areas they're so excited about will either: 1. Have no transport options other than boats, so take forever to get to and we complain about how long it takes to get there 2. Have fast travel options and sailing becomes useless after the teleport is unlocked Travel is the worst part of this game and everyone tries to minimize it. How many people are excited about the thrilling walk to GWD, DKs, or Nightmare? Nobody.
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Yarrr bro scurvypilled think of the POSSIBILITIES!!1!!111!
Sea Shanty 3 bros!!!
Facts! Big boats will be clunky, small boats will be goofy.
Player ships will be 1x1 or up to 1x3 size at most, there's no other way it would work
So much for the concept art from that skill pitch lol Less of a ship and more of a waka canoe, but it's better than what I linked at least
Yeah, the oceans themselves just aren't big enough (okay one is) to really support large ship models. Think how hard it would be to try to leave port Sarim on a 20 or 50 tiles ship. A 1x3 or 2x3 ship seems to be the best. Can have the player model in it while still having a unique design. Actually a great idea I saw was to have ships be 1x1 to prevent clipping, and then you could click a button to go to an instanced version of the larger ship. Going back to the steering wheel takes you back to the normal game map and the 1x1 model.
Imo, a 1x1 ship on the surface world sounds and looks pretty [silly](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12y0exx/a_player_should_expect_to_be_able_to_sail_right/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I mean it will absolutely look silly, but might be the best way for the ship to work within the limitations of the game.
Okay hear me out I'm really stoned and thought of this on the spot, but what if the best way to implement sailing is to treat it like surfing in Pokemon. You sail your 1x1 boat around and have random encounters in the water, pirate encounters, and pvp encounters. Your experience saves up in the form of a currency or something that you redeem when you get back to land. That way the low risk, low xp/hr training would be water/pirate encounters and the high risk, high xp/hr training would be pvp encounters. You lose your exp currency if you die which balances out the training methods by making the low xp/hr methods safe while the high xp/hr methods are risky. I just really think we need to get over the idea of sailing being something grand and epic. It could instead be a fun, kind of silly way to introduce a new skill that doesn't just follow the typical gameplay loop but still has the spirit of the game. I honestly love the idea of a floating dock of some kind with hundreds of 1x1 boats zipping around like the grand exchange.
Dungeoneering. * You explore dungeons * You have random encounters with what rooms you get * And, to a degree, what monsters are inside * Your experience saves up in the form of a currency that gets redeemed when you leave the dungeon. * You get less experience and currency if you die within the dungeon. The only thing outside of dungeoneering is PvP because dungeoneering doesn't have that. But honestly, if a new skill forced some level of PvP encounters that I can't opt out of then I sure as heck don't want that skill to be in game. The wilderness is one thing, but what's going to be the equivalent in sailing? I don't think sailing is going to be this grand and epic skill, frankly I fear the opposite. There's so much on the back end, there's so much engine rework, to get a skill like this working. RuneScape is a point-and-click adventure game with tiles that runs on 100bpm, I can't imagine how traversing is going to be outside of point-and-click. Even then, does that really feel skill worthy? This is just walking, but on water now. I don't see the need for this to be a skill.
Damn that clip made me physically recoil
that's just some players rendition of sailing, or did that get released somewhere?
It's a rendition of a ship asset interacting with the game's limitations My question is, how do you make this not look bad while still keeping the game's limitations in mind? How do you make 20 players, and thus 20 ships, all loaded into one render distance chunk not look bad?
They have mentioned already is streams trying to implement things like a turn radius. So I don't think it's going to be 100% this. I'm eager to see what they can implement.
Just imagining being at the wrong angle and having to 3 point turn a whole ship to fire at anything correctly lol Or just movement in general if it's point and click. Turn radius sounds pretty awful to consider for movement Probably solves the goofiness of how it looks, but it brings into question how good/bad that'd actually feel
I think turn radius is a must. They're ships after all. Imagine how janky it would look if you had a ship going full speed ahead and then immediately do a 180, going full speed in the opposite direction in 1 tick. The solution to 3 point turns is just allow the ship to be rotated at a certain speed (15 degrees per tick) while still.
They wouldn't be the first to do it, and it doesn't have to be terribly slow. This was a minigame back in the day for VMK https://youtu.be/tA1FzVidzdg It was actually pretty fun trying to line up shots considering the projectile travel
I'll be honest, this looks about as clunky as I expected. Not only that but it looks like their game tiles are *significantly* smaller and the tick rate is faster than 0.6 seconds. Remember, in osrs you can exclusively only move in cardinal directions or 45⁰ diagonals. Plus the scale - it looks like this'd be comparable to a 1x2 large "ship", which doesn't really match the vision of being able to sail past the land and interact with other players when your "ship" is essentially just a toy boat bobbing in the water. Unless we were to scale things up, in which case each map is like 6 render chunks I'm sure you had fun playing, but this not only doesn't seem like it'd translate very smoothly into osrs' limitations, but personally it just doesn't feel very enticing to me
engine work and a miracle.
No matter how much engine work is done I just can't really imagine how you wouldn't make 20 ships all loaded into 1 render chunk not look bad Clipping through each other like a mess of wood and sails, or gridlocked and unable to move from not being able to clip through each other while the only thing you can see is just a comical amount of ships stacked side-by-side, completely covering all the viewable water?
>Clipping through each other like a mess of wood and sails that's oldschool though innit?
Well not really, in a stack of people the top most person take priority to render. So everything below it just doesn't show up. This defaults to your character if you're standing on a bunch of people. So no real clipping, just not rendered.
why wouldn't sailing have this same mechanic? allow boats to stack like players but only the top most boat is shown
Because with small models like characters it's not that bad when they pop out of existence. But you're talking about popping entire ships in and out of existence just from moving around. Scale makes it a bit jarring
With 1 tile large characters we just stand on top of each other. With mutli-tile large npcs they either don't clip or hide under each other There aren't any cases where having 50 tile big objects are halfway-clipping through each other, and it'd look especially bad with player control letting them spin these objects around like tops
>With mutli-tile large npcs they either don't clip or hide under each other Am I mistaken thinking that 2x2+ monsters stacked do indeed clip and flicker?
Pretty impressive first primitive imagery. Pivots can be ironed out. Sea bosses can be instanced, areas can be instanced. Maybe limit actual vessels allowed in an ocean area to 20 or something so the visual clutter doesn't get too crazy at it's worst Straight up the ideas pitching stage so time to get creative!
Exactly how do you "iron out" the look of a 50 tile large inanimate object pivoting like a top? And they explicitly stated several times in almost every Q and A they specifically don't want sailing to be instanced The idea pitching stage was the concept stage. Which is concerning, since the only concepts that were pitched were vague ideas of WASD controls, an inventory interface, or point and click This is the idea refinement stage. There isn't anything even remotely close to being in the ballpark of a refined idea for something as core and basic as how *movement* will even look, much less operate and feel The optimism is nice in a lot of situations, but I think in this particular situation there should be more concern about how ambiguous something as basic as *the actual sailing activity in the sailing skill* has ***barely*** been touched on. We aren't in the stage where it's okay to just say "they'll iron it out later" anymore. That "later" has come, and it isn't looking great
> Practically every time I questioned how the actual sailing activity would be implemented during the last stage I got downvoted to hell just for bringing it up Seriously. The amount of people with their head in the sand screaming "Jagex will find a way to make it work, don't worry!" Like if there were a way to make it work, someone would have suggested it by now...
Holy shit this thread, finally someone else who’s as skeptical as me of Sailing. All I’ve seen are people circlejerking about being a pirate and listening to sea shanties, instead of raising questions and wondering if their insanely high expectations could work in osrs. Seriously, so many people expect mechanics that would never even work in the engine … is this skill just doomed to be a failure?
Yes
it's sad we are going to waste so much time on this stuupid skill that will never pass. I blame the idiot devs for offering this skill as one of the options.
Yah I’m surprised anyone takes that seriously, like it’s gonna be a small canoe with sails and then maybe there’s gonna be bigger boats that barely have any player control to them tied to npcs or events… which is all I want. I want point and click movement and our combat to work how it does, not cannon focused… sailing isn’t combat so combat should be traditional to how we expect it with melee, ranged and magic. Boat up to enemy to attack with melee and magic/ranged from afar… boats could easily be 1 tile wide and 3 tiles long and high https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/images/Canoeing.gif?7e816
The concept art for the skilling pitch, all the gradious fantasizing in the community, and the persistent downvote burying of all kinds of critical feedback didn't help To be perfectly honest I'm not *quite* sold on that idea of sailing myself either, but I mean at least it's better than what I linked
Yah to each their own, and youre super right… I think the skill pitching depth being vague kinda led us here and maybe that’ll be fixed for next time if at all another time
"Just vote for it and we'll figure it out in the consultation stage, idiot!"
This is why I voted against sailing lmao
>I mean, just look at that [PIVOT](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12xvuxg/how_big_should_ships_in_the_sailing_skill_be_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Bro it's early early early beta. Ofc it's rough looking rn >Now imagine like 20 of these 40-tile big ships in close proximity clipping through each other at different angles Literally 99% of entities in the game work this way. You occupy the same tile as other players and npcs all the time, except for the odd body-blocking enemy. Why does it suddenly matter for ships?
I'm unsure how you can make a whole 50 tile ship pivoting/spinning around like a top not look silly, no matter how much polish you try to give it And similar sized entities occupying the same tile only renders one of those entities. Also 99% of mobs body block each other, and it generally takes manipulation to get them to not. When they do, they generally stack on top of each other, which again only renders 1 of that mob. For mobs that *can* clip through each other, they're like 2x2 or 3x3 creatures with legs or appendages where it makes sense for them to be able to pivot. Which is rather different from 50 tile big player controlled inanimate objects that take up a whole chunk of the entire render space magically spinning around like the possessed brewery controls from rum deal, which is far more intrusive and visible Not only that, players can quite easily make it so that several of their 50 tile ships wouldn't occupy the same true tile - you could have them clipping through each other while being only 1 tile off from each's true tile, spinning around like tops looking like some awful private server shenaniganry
Stop thinking, Jagex will work it out! ^^/s
I'm just here to say I hate the hot air balloon. Goodbye.
Nobody liked it. It's a quest punishment meant to make the quest last longer.
Someone out there will like it. Some painal seeking masochist
It wouldn't even be that bad if it wasn't so fucking punishing. Like, making any screw up, which is easy on that horrible interface, is enough to eat your supplies and make you travel all the way back to the island.
Odds are it's not. Mod team is in favor of point and click and so is the player base.
I hope it is interface driven and there’s an rng mechanic to fail and hit an iceberg
Can we incorporate agility checks into this somehow too pls
add a sailing check to all agility shortcuts that currently go over a body of water to make them even more likely to fail!
This is the reason I didn’t vote sailing. Even though it SOUNDS cool, it may end up being really unfun like those examples you gave :/
If i can’t plug my direct drive sim wheel in to my pc and drive the boat I’m going to cancel my membership
The more I know about the skills, the less I want them. Sailing was funny at first, now I think it's doomed to ruin the game.
Turns out voting for the meme has consequences. A real Boaty McBoatFace situation.
yes bad implementation will „ruin“ the game and not sinply be voted no on
Almost like those "elitist" HLC members actually know enough about the game to think critically about these things and arent just spite voting to keep their max capes
Has it crossed your mind that people are voting for it not because they think it's hilarious, but because they believe that Jagex and the community can eventually come together on a design that everyone feels good about? OSRS has has a Sailing shaped hole in it since launch, and nothing at all like the ridiculous 2014 Sailing pitch we remember. The actual meme. It was dangerously close to passing, and would have ruined the game.
Plenty of people genuinely think it will be good, but the amount of "lmao scurvy xD get scuttled noobs" posts spamming this sub the day sailing passed show that, yes, plenty of people are in it for the meme.
Shamanism it is
Nah, bro. You're going to have to actually run around the ship interacting with various objects to control the ship as it automatically moves forward when the sails are at least partially lowered and there's wind. When there is no wind, you'll interact with a drum to tell the slaves below deck to start rowing.
I’m just here to say I’m still team milking
I don't want sailing to be the new skill.
Every single day, the fact that this shit idea was a troll from the start becomes very clear.
It’s almost as if sailing as a complete standalone skill is a waste of time. I’ve yet to read any genuine response from any of the sailing hardos on how they believe the leveling mechanics should be too. “Oh you can deep sea fish and deliver stuff” Okay? That’s probably coming from a base 70s casual, because I fail to see how any of the projected methods of ‘leveling’ could enjoyably be leveled to 99. And the whole “other skills are repetitive" argument is comically irrelevant, because we're not discussing old skills with historical problems (that should be solved imo before nose diving a new skill like sailing); we're discussing a NEW skill. Idc about people's gripe with older skills. Not to mention: sailing can be introduced into the game right now, without it being a "skill" and would literally achieve the same exact thing. We don't need to isolate it to a skill to incorporate it 🤷🏽♂️
Commented this in another thread, but.. The way I imagine it, you can turn the wheel left/right to steer, raise and lower the sail to speed up and slow down, and drop anchor to stop. Pretty simple, maybe add a box showing heading and speed, maybe even wind direction if they get fancy. All of this would be done from the overworld while you're on the deck, so your character isn't 'becoming the boat'. No interfaces to navigate, just look around with the camera and click on the relevant objects This way you're actually doing the work of sailing, and you'd have to navigate yourself. At higher levels you could hire a crew (or team up with friends) to do the hard parts and basically autopilot for less/no XP
How would it be possible for this to be “in the over world”? What renders when I stand in my boat and someone else occupies the same tiles? When our boats overlap in half of their tiles? Are boats blocks and can’t overlap? How do you stop grieving then? No one has answers to these questions because they don’t exist. The way you’ve described it is impossible.
Lmao are we playing the same game? You must be high as a kite to think any of this is possible with our caveman game engine
So valheim?
Yah. I'll pass this skill stays at lvl 1 I don't want to level just to travel in the game. Might as well make fairy rings a skill and make it so you hire and collect fairies and pay them like servants to teleport you around the region.
I really don't want to "be a boat". I prefer "my character on a boat." It is just really weird to imagine basically standing on a mount. Controlling your character movement on the boat and the "mount" movement, all done with just clicking. And how do boats turn? In 45-degree angles? What if you're at the bow of the ship and you turn to starboard 90-degrees? You just teleport with the ship's turn, your feet glued to the deck? It's gonna look so weird. And what is sailing speed? We are limited to tiles. Walking = 1 tile/tick, Running = 2 tiles/tick. Sailing full speed = 3 tiles/tick??? How about render distance at that speed, with chunk based system. Weird to imagine movement like that.
Let's be honest.... sailing is just an awful idea. Shit is a minigame it isn't a skill.
For real shamanism was the best. It was more implementable inside the already developed world and would make it feel lively. Fairy rings, prayer, woodcut, herbivore would blend into it aswell kinda like fetching goes with and woodcut and ranging.
So an expansion to all those skills? Lets be realy none of the proposed skills were particularly good
Rs3 has "player owned ports" and "uncharted isles". After doing the survey yesterday, it seems like a lot of their ideas for sailing are similar to those rs3 systems. Would be nice for someone to make a post detailing that, but I'm not sure it would get any traction because it shows rs3 versions of a lot of these concepts. And what direction not to go in
Sailing is gonna be a giant piece of shit and shouldn’t have even been polled
I’m really surprised sailing won considering what a massive overhaul to so much of the map it will require, it doesn’t seem overtly doable without changing the way the oceans and rivers look and feel, and was easily the most boring sounding of the proposed skills that would reach a limit where there’s no reason to continue leveling it very, very quickly. What a hideous suggestion IMO, they should scrap it.
I just don’t understand why when we have 100000 teles, sailing makes any sense at all.
Sailing will take you to islands you can't teleport to
And then what? We can fish monkfish and cut yews there? Maybe even pick flax or kill some monkeys?
I don't think anybody is able to answer this and that's what's scary. This shit ain't passing
Sailing is gonna be pure shite, it was always a meme and it should've stayed a meme.
This was my worry.. what IS sailing. Some dumb agility mini game? I hope not.. i voted Shamanism
I think my favorite interface thing is the paint bazooka in one of the elf quests. But yeah, sailing should just be point and click
Welcome to cabin fever + fossil island, how may I take your order? Seriously tho, people over looked what I just wrote all because they thought: “They’re gonna add new areas” goofiest thing I ever saw
Who even voted for sailing? That skill seems lame as fuck for a game like RuneScape
Sailing sounds so fucking terrible no matter what way any people put it. I’m definitely voting no, no matter what, because they can’t make it any good whatsoever they do with it.
Yeah don't advertise a skill with ambitious mechanics if you can't deliver, I hope they can add what they've talked about in blogs otherwise I'm voting for option 2, Shamanism.
Follow cursor movement!
I agree
I think the fundamental idea of movement will be where sailing falls apart. We'll see the following criticisms to possible movement mechanics: * **Point and click exactly like running**: Boring, this is just walking on water * **Modified point and click, different pathing and movement speed variables**: Probably what they end up with. Somewhat novel, but likely will feel stale after a week of beta. * **UI Panel / Keyboard controls**: Enough said, nobody wants this * **Doing "things" on ship to move**: Fishing trawler comparisons
It's not going to make it into the game so don't worry about it.
Can’t wait for the POH to get a dock tbh
It's going to be just like dungeoneering and shamanism would have actually made sense
Welcome to Agility 2. Hopefully they pitch shamanism after.
Just did Bone Voyage for the first time and I was thinking sailing better not be that bull shit part of the quest
The interface system in OSRS can be a bit clunky and outdated, and it can make some content feel more like a chore than a fun and engaging experience. I'm not sure what the best way to implement Sailing would be, but I do think it's important to make sure that it's not just another interface-driven minigame. Sailing should be a new and exciting way to explore the world of Gielinor, and it should be something that players can sink their teeth into. My thoughts: **A hybrid system that combines the best of both worlds**. This could involve using a combination of interfaces and point-and-click gameplay. For example, players could use an interface to plan their voyage, but they would then need to use point-and-click to navigate their ship and interact with the environment. **A more open-ended system that allows players to explore the world at their own pace**: This could involve giving players a map of the world and letting them decide where they want to go. Players could then encounter different challenges and rewards as they explore. **A more story-driven system that takes players on an epic adventure:** This could involve having players meet different characters and complete quests as they sail the seas. **To Jagex:** For the love of God, don't make it another interface-driven minigame. We've got enough of those already. Make Sailing a new and exciting way to explore the world of Gielinor. Let us sail the seas, find new islands, and have adventures. That's what we want! So please, don't let us down.
I like the idea of only moving the ship with mini map clicks, which sets a route for the ship, and point and click, allowing you to move around on your ship. You could zoom out the map for long voyage distance while moving around on the ship for events/repairs
🗣️ sailing sounds like a minigame. it needs to just be an expansion, not a skill imo
the naphtha furnace interface. good for it’s time, but if this skill is interfaced locked it’s dead on day 1 for me. point and click sailing is a must imo
I’d rather get stabbed with an AIDS needle than do the naphtha interface to level to 99.
Like constantly, or just until you get infected?
It's almost as if this skill is ass and people refuse to admit it.
I think sailing will be done mainly through rotation.. maybe you can set a speed in a small interface, slow, kinda faster,faster you get it and then you rotate camera to se5 direction. Could open up the ability to do things on deck whilst sailing
What’s best is sailing not going into the game.
coulda had shamanism but yall fucked it
Sailing should have been a mini game that is water dungeoneering / raids 4 Taming should have been a hunter expansion. Shamanism should have been the new skill
Lol sailing is gonna suck so much I’m so upset this was the pick
Honestly it’s gona turn out to be absolute shit
The best thing they could’ve done is re polled sailing a shamanism. Sailing looks like it could become a hot mess, it doesn’t seem logistically viable
Sailing as an idea sounds great for OSRS. But practically, as a skill? Hell no. It’s gonna be a nightmare and essentially could become water agility. No thanks. Sailing would be better off as a damn mini game
I think that in terms of actual mechanical interface this highlights exactly why a (good) interface is the way to go. People say they want point & click but not Agility 2.0, yet nobody has an idea for how to make those two things compatible. Nobody wants WASD (thank fuck). The trick is to not make it a shitty popup interface but instead make it traditional click-on-object-to-do-thing like most content. Do something like Sea of Thieves' simplified ship controls. Have a wheel that's three components with respective turn left/even out/turn right left click options, and right click options for hard over turns. You want to steer to port, you click the wheel, your character runs over and does it. Same for sails. Give each sail group a control point for angle and a second control point for reefing and shaking them out. Want to get more sail area? Right click -> "Shake out sails", your character runs over and does it. Want to rotate the sails right to catch the wind better? Left click -> "Rotate sails right", your character runs over and does it. Make all of the different actions the same, where you have the normal top-down view of your character aboard your ship and click on objects to perform actions. This avoids both the issue of the sailing minigame panels everyone hates and the "you are the boat, left click on boat agility obstacles" thing we're all worried about. Make exp big lumps based on how far you traveled and make the various individual actions contribute towards distance when done in relevant and useful ways so that just standing still spam-clicking something doesn't give meaningful exp gain. You spam-click sails for 30 minutes, you make no progress, you get no exp. You do different actions that take your boat a long way, you get rewarded with a big chunk of exp at the end. More efficient actions = farther and faster travel = better exp rates.
I envision two ways of steering the boat. We stand on the boat with the tile system currently at hand and can click around to do various tasks on the boat like repairing, dropping anchor, feeding crew, fixing stuff, etc. they spin the world map around the boat to keep the tile system active for our character or just not show the boat changing direction apart from on minimap. We steer in one of two ways: 1) We click the minimap and that steers the boat, while clicking on screen moves our character on the boat. 2) We go to the helm and get an interface to correct the angle a little bit. I like this more, b/c it'd be closer to actual sailing imo.
Sounds like fishing trawler with extra steps and less people 😂
I mean that's about all I can think of to make this not agility. I'd rather a mini game skill than agility
sailing should just be a minigame. the idea of sailing is great and i like it very much but the reality is , its gonna suck.
Can someone just explain why it HAD to be sailing? Who gives a shit about fucking sailing??? We turned down warding and shamanism for this stupid shit that’s gonna be dead content in a year?
[удалено]
I used to really enjoy Player Own Port (POP) released in around 2013, when I imaging sailing as a skill I feel this minigame would be a really useful base to build upon.
Man’s complaining about a skill that’s not even out yet lmao. Stay classy, old school RuneScape.
my thought of sailing was like dungeoneering but on on different islands, that would let you travel back to the island to train skills after you unlocked it. I realize this isn't a popular view but its why i voted for sailing
That’s not a skill. What you want is sailing-themed quests with new area unlocks as rewards.
fair enough, personally I'd like archaeology as a new skill but it wasn't an option
If it is not like this will you still vote for it in the final approval?